state of the union (or at least part of it)...

[DannyG]

went to a SixPac tournament this past weekend (Colorado, "second worst snowstorm in recorded history...")

Note that girls were a MAJOR factor in most of the successful teams in the 8's, 10's, & 12's.

Even just a year ago, the girl on the team was an oddity at tournaments in the Southwest U.S.

On this occasion, girls were everywhere, even up through the Midgets. and they were not tokens, either. They were players.

overheard by the front door, two departing, unknown parents:

"My kid is really tired, he played four games today..."

"Yeah? See that blonde girl down there? She's played six games today, and she was the most solid defender in her division. She shut the guys down tough..."

Presently, everybody still says, "Yeah, but wait til the girls hit the 14's, when the boys get bigger and stronger..."

I'm telling you today, that next year, girls will achieve the same factor of legitimacy in the Bantam's that they have now established up through Peewee's, at least in programs where numbers of girls have had the same opportunities as boys. The bigger stronger boys will be indeed be bigger and stronger, but the skilled girls will be just as effective as are the smaller and lighter of the boys. They will be there, count on it.

Please remember that you heard it here, and give me the footnote, if you quote me on it...

-Dan

[missionhockey21]

Although I do know many girls between 10-14 who are excellent hockey players, once they get to 16u it will be harder to compete. And I am not saying this out of dissrespect to you or your daughter Danny, who knows maybe she could be an exception. But the fact is that most 14 year old boys are a lot different than a 16 year old boy boy.

[TXGoalieMom]

My daughter currently competes in 14U, Women's where available and occasionally the 17U level in tournament play. She even plays at the Adult level in league play (I have to take a Valium for these games sometimes....lol). And she is still 12U eligible. Most guys view her in the same light as indicated by your post until they shoot on her a few times. She plays goal most of the time, but enjoys the opportunity to skate out sometimes. I should add that she is not the only girl playing at her level in our area. I think we are just seeing the beginning of female involvement in the sport of hockey. Many times I find it is the parents more than the players that are having a hard time adjusting to the inclusion of females in the sport (IMO).

[kt_13]

hey....i play hockey in the UK and am currently the only girl on my teams U18 side...and i have to say that i do not have a problem playing U18 hockey or even seniors...i am not as strong as most of the lads but seeing as it is a none checking sport (or is supposed to be lol) that does not effect me really...plus i use my weight well when it come to the physical play.

i know that the standard of hockey in the UK is nowhere near what u guys got in the USA but it is getting there slowly lol.

In the UK it is still really a rarity to see girls playing at most clubs although there are more girls starting to play which is great to see and i think its good to hear that in the USA then girls are such a big part of the younger age groups at least...just a worrying thought for the strength of your team USA womens team in years to come its good enough already lol.

[DannyG]

I agree with you that 16U/17U is the next step after 14U.

I agree that 14 year old male is not as developed as a 16/17/18 year old male.

I observe that there are players/coaches, perhaps such as yourself, who believe that it will be tougher and well neigh impossible for girls to compete in the older age groups. The only contention of this view (that I have heard) is because the older boys are so much "bigger, stronger, faster."

Okay, we understand "bigger, stronger, faster."

If that's the only consideration, then it will be equally difficault for smaller, less-strong, slower male players to compete as well. Of course, it is more difficult, but nobody counts these guys out. They find roles on the team, they work hard, they contribute.

The fact is, as Ms. KT notes above, is that in inline, where the contact is "coincidental, rather than outright collisionary" in nature, smaller players have a tremendous amount to contribute. We don't mean to discount the contact, but creative players can still ply their skill in the inline atmosphere.

We don't mean to assert that the best female 18 year olds can outmuscle the best 18 year old males. The point is, I am positing the belief to all that female athletes can and will procede from here-on-out, all the way up the ladder of success, together with, and against their male counterparts, as a legitimate part of the game, and they can and will do this in a way that ice hockey cannot match.

So far, at every step, 8's, 10's, 12's, 14's (and now 16/17's?) I have had the analysts explain to me that the girls will not be able to compete "at the next step.' So far, the analysts have been wrong.

If the only counterindicative belief is based on the "bigger/stronger/faster" theory, then I am here to tell ya, that is wrong as well...and we'll find out shortly if I'm right.

-Dan

[Kdawg68]

Kudos Dan,I am a female player who plays competitive in both
tournaments and leagues on a mens silver team. I have been doing so now since 1997 and playing in Virginia this weekend.I have too say I especially love to play tourneys cause when the other team sees a female playing they tend too take it lightly,that is until she shoots and scores or goes around a couple of guys and makes a nice play.I also
find it pretty amusing when the other team plays physical.
I also can hold my own and take a shot or two hey its part of the game any way when I start to throw my weight around and knock a couple of guys around I never seem to get a call.The last tourney I played in we were playing a fast and speedy team,I knew that these guys where going to go right around me if I didnt play their body.Any way this one guy tried to pull this move and I just laid him flat out when he got up he complained to the ref and I heard the ref say I cant call that.I think the ref found it amuzing,anyway
he didnt try that move anymore...LOL

[missionhockey21]

There are some excellent older girls, few, but I have seen them. I have not played a girl in any worthwhile tourney since the 14u age group. Girls generally tend to quit hockey as they get older and it gets more aggressive if they play in a league that mostly consists of boys. And the girls that can stick with it are the truly gifted and talented hockey players. Just like a short skinny guy who can still compete at a high level with bigger players. But the fact is that as they get older the girls have to work a lot harder than the boys, I am sure you know this with your daughter Danny, same is true with a smaller male player. I think we all know there are a lot of average guy players who play travel, because they have a physical advantage. I think the #'s of girls that continue past the 16u/17u are the truly talented and dedicated ones because they have to work harder, and lets be honest most team mates and coaches generally are harder on them because of their gender. Thats just my 2 cents though.

[columbus_RHstar]

Danny, I think that what mission here is trying to say is something along the lines of the NHL. Where a bigger, stronger (not neccessarily faster) player would be chosen over a smaller player who has better skills than the bigger player.

Now most people would take the bigger player. That is why you see less girls playing with 16/17/18 boys because the majority of people would take the bigger stronger less skilled player over the smaller more skilled player.

Now I'm not saying that is right but it is an unfortunate reality, one that I and alot of other people would like to see changed.

[DannyG]

I'll agree with both of you regarding the "top end" of the spectrum. This same consideration happens, for example, every time a top world-class female tennis player brings some power into the game. Everybody immediately speculates, "Could she play vs. the men?" Martina Navratilova had to endure this speculation, now it's Venus Williams.

The answer, of course, is no, even the best female, world-class tennis player could not compete with any player at the top men's level.

Here's an interesting parallel to what I'm trying to say: we all recall that Wayne Gretzky, as a youth player, was told at every new level he played at, all the way up to the NHL, that when he arrived at the "next level," he would get his come-uppance. Even his WHL records and level of play was not enough to convince any critic that he was for real, until he played in the "real" pro league as well.

I am offering the supposition that the same might occur with the top-level of girls...and I'll tell you why I think this is a possibility (you knew this wouldn't be short, right?)

One year ago, my daughter was in the middle of the pack, individual-skill wise. We had 50 peewee players, she was better than 25 of 'em, and 25 of 'em were better than she was. Then we started a new training regimen. She started playing more and more hockey.

I determined that 7 hours per week would move her up to the next level. With all her school and other activities, my wife assured me that there was no way that Caitlin would be able to squeeze in 7 hours down at the rink each week.

One-by-one, I, the nefarious, sneaky coach, have weaselled into her schedule, adding hockey activities, one at a time, til last month, my wife remarked, "Holy enchiladas, Caitlin is down at the rink playing hockey for 12 hours each week at this point!"

Presently, she is recognized as the third best all-round peewee player in the city. She has the best tactical knowledge of any youth player, including our bantams & midgets. She is absolutely THE premier defensive player, period. All of this because she worked at it.

Any female or male player can duplicate what Caitlin has accomplished, if they has the same opportunities for training and development that she has had.

I agree with Mission that most girls drop out of participation (in sports in general, not just hockey) in the latter teens. Statistics prove this beyond a doubt.

Those girls that stay, however, and the numbers will increase dramatically over the next few years, will prove to be just as skilled as their male teammates and opponents, and all our analytical friends will agree that, if given the same opportunities, the top girls will be up there with the top boys.

I'd say, "That's all I'm sayin'..." but at this point, it's too late.

Thanks for listening...

-Dan

[columbus_RHstar]

I sure wish I could get in 12 hours down at the rink, I usually only get 4 or 5 AT the rink but playing hockey in parking lots and my garage, would make a total of 25-ish. And that is only my inline time.

And I think Venus and Serena might be able to beat quite a few of the males.

[MightyQuinn]

Danny
As with life, being as good as the guys on a team just isn't enough. Like Caitlin, my daughter plays defense. The only girl on her team, her skating skills are excellent, stick handling extremely good and her ability to read the game means she plays strategically. She enjoys training hard because she wants to improve her game.

But regardless of how good she is, she receives less than 10% of the positive reinforcement her team mates receive. If she was a boy, she would be played twice as much as she is. She sits on the bench watching some kids having real difficulty skating, never mind hitting the puck at the same time, getting rink time while she is benched. Yet in spite of that, she was selected for the regional team [which won the conference] and invited to National Team trials.

So training is one piece of improving opportunities for girls. Inspirational coaching is also important - coaches need the ability to see skill first and gender second. And finally positive reinforcement is vital to continued growth. .

[RichardGraham]

Hi Mighty,

>>But regardless of how good she is, she receives less than 10% of the positive reinforcement her team mates receive. <<

That's sad to hear. I hope that will eventually change. The sooner the better!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[hyperlabrat]

Quinn
Your post is a familiar one when it comes to girls playing on a boys team. My daughter has played since she was 4, but because her older brother played defense she was not. She set out to prove herself as a forward. She was overlooked at 7 because she was a girl and even though she was better than the boys she was not selected. It's was tough, but it made her more determined, she has spent the 5 years playing AA or AAA roller as either the captain or alternate captain of her boys team. Too many roller coaches want to pigeon hole girls in the back playing D where they can do the least damage(their ignorance, cause D is more critical)and wont give the girls a chance to move up or prove their skills. Many of the girls have better hands and are far superior skaters until the boys start to develop coordination. I believe many of the girls have left hockey at 12 to 14 because they were unhappy with the amount of play time and the position they were assigned. Since 1998 girls ice hockey has been growing, many states have teams thru 10 and under thru 19 and under, where the girls can develop skills and further their experience. If they have the skills, they can go to college for free, and not just any college.

[DannyG]

Labby (hey, it's better than 'ratty'):

I find your notes very interesting...

"She was overlooked at 7 because she was a girl and even though she was better than the boys she was not selected."

You obviously came through a program that did not have a legitimate recreation, everybody-plays setting. That's tough, all right.

"It's was tough, but it made her more determined, she has spent the 5 years playing AA or AAA roller as either the captain or alternate captain of her boys team. Too many roller coaches want to pigeon hole girls in the back playing D where they can do the least damage(their ignorance, cause D is more critical)and wont give the girls a chance to move up or prove their skills."

totally right about the ignorance...interestingly enough, defense has always been my daughter's forte. She is one of those players who early developed a psychological comfort from having all the game action in front of her, where she could see everybody. At 5, she played in goal, went to Defender at 6. We still joke about that single little blue square in the high slot that she "guarded" as her territory the first season, rarely straying from her "home base."

"I believe many of the girls have left hockey at 12 to 14 because they were unhappy with the amount of play time and the position they were assigned."

You may be right, but again, in our house league, all players must play in rotation every game, all game. No player gets more playing time than any other. Maybe this has allowed the girls an equal opportunity with the boys.

"Since 1998 girls ice hockey has been growing, many states have teams thru 10 and under thru 19 and under, where the girls can develop skills and further their experience. If they have the skills, they can go to college for free, and not just any college."

We stand right now in 'the inline side of the house' almost exactly where girls' ice hockey was back in 1989, i.e., the second year of a growing trend. We certainly hope that the development that you have noticed since then for ice happens for our girls in inline. In fact, several organizations, including the Southwest Collegiate Inline Hockey Association, and USA Hockey Inline, itself, have begun to offer inline college stipend/scholorships.

Thank you to you and your daughter on behalf of all the younger girls who will have it better because your daughter got out there and put up with the nonsense (the nice word) that she has had to.

-Dan, Caitlin, and all the Polar Bears (the girls and guys)in El Paso, Texas