Unfair DII

[nickstur]

It is a joke that teams like Stephen Austin get a chance to go to San Jose and play in Nationals just because they won their region.

The best 16 teams in the United States should be playing and it pisses me off. 18-0 game. Ridiculous.

[dan sangiorgio]

There is always a team or two that doesn't belong because they lack the skill to compete but really it is because the better secrhl d2 teams of years past made the jump to d1. So maybe it is acutally Austin U. That belongs and there oppsition who doesn't

[mustachemarty5]

There is always a team or two that doesn't belong because they lack the skill to compete but really it is because the better secrhl d2 teams of years past made the jump to d1. So maybe it is acutally Austin U. That belongs and there oppsition who doesn't

Agreed, couldn't have said it better.

[teamcarramrod]

There should be the same rules for all of the NCRHA, because it makes a lot sense for different regions having different rules. It should have been a mercy at 10. They won their region, nothing you can do about it except win yours, or move up to D1.

[William Bourque]

There should be the same rules for all of the NCRHA, because it makes a lot sense for different regions having different rules.

The national rule is that there is no 10-goal mercy rule.

[oldschool22]

William Bourque:
Did the cream rise? A lot of good DII teams are sitting at home while DI teams that went 4-13 are playing at the national tourney in DI. The attempt to make teams move up has been a bust. DII needs to be expanded and given more births to the tourney. DII will always be the biggest division.

[Patn Lawton]

William Bourque:
Did the cream rise? A lot of good DII teams are sitting at home while DI teams that went 4-13 are playing at the national tourney in DI. The attempt to make teams move up has been a bust. DII needs to be expanded and given more births to the tourney. DII will always be the biggest division.

It doesn't make sense to have more DII teams than DI teams. The best teams should be playing in D1. Hopefully the large amount of D1 teams getting bids will motivate other teams to move up if they have the talent/organization. If a DII team didn't make it to nationals it is because they didn't win enough games. There will always be arguments about how one team is better than another for national bids and yadda yadda, but that can be fixed with a tissue box.

[uconnhockey1]

Pat-

Couldn't agree with you more. Teams should not be motivated to stay down in DII and then complain when a team gets killed here. Challenge yourself and move up to Division One. Then maybe your "good D II teams" would be here competing at Nationals. It's getting old having everyone complain about the gap between the two divisions and how amazing D II is. If you are so ticked off about how "bad" some of the division one teams are, then why don't you move up? If you are one of the division two teams that gets snubbed all the time, then you should easily make nationals at the division one level.

[CraigBrodz]

I think that's retarted. As a whole D-1 is much better then D-2. Yea the top teams in d-2 are good but the talent descrepency between the top and bottom teams is much bigger in D-2 then D-1, from what I have seen looking at the Scores in Nationals. Yea there will always be games where teams get killed but it is what is. And as for teams with under .500 records in D-1 being in nationals if you look those teams were pretty competitive. Yea Stony Brook and Hofstra got killed against two of the top teams in the nation but I think they proved that they belong. If teams like Stony Brook and Hofstra were playing in D-2 they would be two of the top teams in the nation if you ask me. I can only speak for the ECRHA but when looking at the standings the only teams that play each other close are Brockport, Rowan, Neumann, and West Chester. If you are going to talk smack about D-2 being better then D-1, then move up and prove it. Talk is cheap. Besides Hockey is fun, be thankful you have the opportunity to be playing still at a pretty competitive level.


Craig Brodmerkel
Long Island 495ers #31
Stony Brook Seawolves National Champs 2007
Brockport Roller Derby 2002-2005

[nickstur]

I agree with most of what's been said here, but what some people don't understand, is that some schools (especially state schools) no matter how talented they are, will never be organized enough to move up to D-1.

Most of the teams are run solely by students, with absolutely ZERO outside help by a coach/parent/or faculty. That means booking hotels and scheduling transportation and everything from making a roster to buying pucks. The schools without these resources but with talent simply cannot move to D-I. Yet when they're competitive and have a good team, they have to sit at home while other teams are getting killed 18-0 at nationals.

I dont know WHAT should be done, but SOMETHING should be done.

Whether that's expanding D-II or literally forcing certain teams to move up. I dont know much, but I know that.

[DannyG]

(disclaimers) I have known many of the people in the national organization for many years, so I know that this has been discussed ad infinitum many times before. I have never been involved as a player or coach at the collegiate level, so I plead some level of ignorance, but this also makes me an unbiased, "outside" witness to the situation. (disclaimers over)

Division play continues to be defined by "wherever you want to play, and can make the travel commitments."

Until and unless division restrictions are defined by such factors as school enrollment, money/resources spent on items such as travel, training, coaching, etc., there are going to be disparities involved.

Every school in each of the 88 sport/divisions of NCAA sanctioned play know exactly how they are to be placed into whichever division they participate in. They also know how to change divisions appropriately.

For example, a school such as Michigan Tech plays in all three divisions (D1, D2, D3) in various sports, dependent upon what the restrictions are for any particular sport. I am sure that all the people on this forum set know of many more examples.

This is absolutely not a criticism, but defining division participation parameters is a necessary step in progession of the sport at the collegiate level. For what it's worth, I have several players from my coaching past playing in this years' collegiate ranks. I am thoroughly enjoying the season, and that is thanks to all you players who are making the present system work as well as it does. Good job.

Everybody keep playng and have fun.

[Patn Lawton]

I agree, there are definitely some teams that will never have the organization/funding to move up but do have the talent. However, I am not sure what needs to be done about it. There are still a decent amount of teams that make DII nationals. I think that all the top teams are at nationals. I think that there are probably 1-3 teams at home right now who could beat the bottom 1-3 teams at nationals right now. That happens every year and is a product of autobids along with not having enough inter-regional play. (Inter-regional play has increased over the years and has been great, but obviously no team is traveling every weekend in a plane to go to cali, florida, NY, etc.)

Maybe it would be beneficial to sit down and identify what is needed to be done to move from DII to DI. I know it could be difficult, but not impossible. A dedicated group of 12 young men in college could probably be able to achieve this via fundraising and being proactive if they knew exactly what needed to be done.

I call upon the powers of AJ FREY to discuss Hofstra's move from DI to DII. Let's be proactive ourselves and get some information to these talented DII teams to help them move up.

I agree with most of what's been said here, but what some people don't understand, is that some schools (especially state schools) no matter how talented they are, will never be organized enough to move up to D-1.

Most of the teams are run solely by students, with absolutely ZERO outside help by a coach/parent/or faculty. That means booking hotels and scheduling transportation and everything from making a roster to buying pucks. The schools without these resources but with talent simply cannot move to D-I. Yet when they're competitive and have a good team, they have to sit at home while other teams are getting killed 18-0 at nationals.

I dont know WHAT should be done, but SOMETHING should be done.

Whether that's expanding D-II or literally forcing certain teams to move up. I dont know much, but I know that.

[alex]

I agree with most of what's been said here, but what some people don't understand, is that some schools (especially state schools) no matter how talented they are, will never be organized enough to move up to D-1.

Most of the teams are run solely by students, with absolutely ZERO outside help by a coach/parent/or faculty. That means booking hotels and scheduling transportation and everything from making a roster to buying pucks. The schools without these resources but with talent simply cannot move to D-I. Yet when they're competitive and have a good team, they have to sit at home while other teams are getting killed 18-0 at nationals.

Disagree, we're a state school runs solely by students with absolutely zero outside help and we've played D1 every year. I'm sure there are others.

And auto-bids make sense. If 2 teams from the southwest made D2 nationals this year, there'd be a case to make. But they got 1 bid and that's it. If you don't give them a bid for winning their entire region, then why even have a region?

[Sinister Soup]

I agree with most of what's been said here, but what some people don't understand, is that some schools (especially state schools) no matter how talented they are, will never be organized enough to move up to D-1.

Most of the teams are run solely by students, with absolutely ZERO outside help by a coach/parent/or faculty. That means booking hotels and scheduling transportation and everything from making a roster to buying pucks. The schools without these resources but with talent simply cannot move to D-I. Yet when they're competitive and have a good team, they have to sit at home while other teams are getting killed 18-0 at nationals.

I dont know WHAT should be done, but SOMETHING should be done.

Whether that's expanding D-II or literally forcing certain teams to move up. I dont know much, but I know that.

most D-I teams are solely run by students and have to book there own hotels and buy there own pucks... so on and so on. so, really there's no excuse for a talented D-II team to say in D-II.

[mustachemarty5]

William Bourque:
Did the cream rise? A lot of good DII teams are sitting at home while DI teams that went 4-13 are playing at the national tourney in DI. The attempt to make teams move up has been a bust. DII needs to be expanded and given more births to the tourney. DII will always be the biggest division.

That's on the DII teams, not the league. DI is the premiere division. It's time for teams to jump up if they are good. Things worked out for UMSL pretty well. And stop whining about the "weak" teams getting in because each of those "weak" teams made it to the sweet 16. Like CraigBrodz said, Hofstra and Stony Brook proved they should be there. They are not on a level to beat teams like Lindenwood or Buffalo yet, but at least they tried. That's more than a lot of other teams can say. And both those teams were DII teams not too long ago. Every team is not going to be the best team in the league, it is impossible. But when teams build up for years, eventually they will get there. Teams like Buffalo and Arizona St. who weren't National power houses a few years ago are now in the Final 4 and you can make the case that either one of them can win it all. So if your at home right now because you just missed out in DII, or if your in the top of DII, take a chance. Just having an opportunity to play and giving yourself a chance to beat a great team like UMSL or Lindenwood is an unbelievable opportunity and to stay scared and chill in DII is a waste of talent and time.