Olympic Thread?

[DannyG]

Have I missed anybody making any mention of the things that come to mind when we watch the current winter games?

1. Watching the parade of athletes in particular at the opening ceremoney and thinking about all the life-long dedication each of these people gives to their sport.

2. Seeing Slovakia women's ice team playing with tenacity even to the very end of their game one, and getting the standing o' from the Canada public.

3. Seeing how much other women's ice teams have improved, and then how much even more the USA and Canada have done so. Being able to say that I have now coached some inline players that have played collegiately with a player on the USA Olympic ice team.

4. Listening to how women's programs all over the world are growing. This inspires us to grow our sport.

5. Have heard at least three direct notes on inline skaters performing in the games.

6. Looking at renewing my own training regimen. perhaps inspiring myself to new skills and abilities.

7. Looking at athletes from all over the world who win with class..and some examples of the opposite as well.

8. Twelve years ago, each men's ice team had 2-3 nhl players, and Canada and the USA were almost all nhl. Now almost every team is at least half nhl'rs, and all the guys from the KHL are not that far behind either. The men's ice tournament is now a legitimate, premier-level event, where really good hockey is being played. Not just "an nhl all-star game with hitting," like it used to be.

I'd love to hear your thoughts out there, guys...

[William Bourque]

3. Seeing how much other women's ice teams have improved, and then how much even more the USA and Canada have done so. Being able to say that I have now coached some inline players that have played collegiately with a player on the USA Olympic ice team.

I have heard the exact opposite and that almost all the teams besides the USA and Canada have regressed.

Sweden, who was the Silver Medalist at the last games, lost 13-1 against Canada. China almost beat Finland, and the country has only 200 female athletes playing. Good for China, but Finland has regressed from a medal contender to just another ran.

I think that the talent level amongst the non-north American levels has dropped drastically over the last four years. It's a shame as any growth at any level of the sport is a good thing, but if other countries don't begin supporting the teams like the United States and Canada, the sport could be going the way of Softball.

[STEMM]

5. Have heard at least three direct notes on inline skaters performing in the games.

What did you hear ?

[zipyaj]

What did you hear ?

I would support Danny's claim to having heard at least two mentions by announcers during the long/short track speed skating events when introducing athletes and backgrounds as moving from inline to ice for the Olympics. I believe this was his reference. Maybe not.

Best!

[DannyG]

just from the top of my head...I confess that I don't sit in front of the tv taking notes...one long track skater's dad speed roller skated, one short track skater rolled, and AP had a mention of some hockey guy who inline hocky'd for a decade as a kid...

another note in response to above...I really do think that Canada/USA team programs, especially in athlete development, are now in the stratosphere compared to other national team status', which makes the others only look like regression...not that I have any charts or graphs to back this up...

[ACCCT2]

I have heard the exact opposite and that almost all the teams besides the USA and Canada have regressed.

Sweden, who was the Silver Medalist at the last games, lost 13-1 against Canada. China almost beat Finland, and the country has only 200 female athletes playing. Good for China, but Finland has regressed from a medal contender to just another ran.

...I really do think that Canada/USA team programs, especially in athlete development, are now in the stratosphere compared to other national team status', which makes the others only look like regression...not that I have any charts or graphs to back this up...

Actually, just like Danny's said and contrary to present "Olympic" appearances, the women's international game has definitely not "regressed", as statistically, in terms of actual player participation and league growth, talent pools everywhere have increased substantially over the even that last few years. And that talent is much better trained, coached, organized and developed than ever before, and is producing some amazingly talented young female players from even non-traditional hockey nations.

The real problem with the women's game is the absurdly unsportsmanlike, arrogant and almost egotistical insistence of the sport's 2 super-powers, the US and Canada, but especially Canada, to thoroughly and with almost ruthlessly UN-sportsmanlike "show-off" and "OVER-kill" efficiancy, humiliatingly "paste" the lesser, but still 'game' teams. Even the famous outrageously dominant USSR teams of the 70's and 80's 'turned it down' when nothing was left but complete and utter humiliation of the other team, and unlike popular myth, the USSR teams were classy and consumate sportsmen both on and off the ice.

The US and Canadian women, on the other hand -- and again, it's even more so with the Canadian women -- have virtually NO sense whatsoever of decent and proper sportswomanship towards their sister players on other teams. And honestly, this totally classless lack of graciousness on both teams' part turns off a lot of fans -- and turning-off fans is very easily read by sponsors who monitor audience response all the time. Personally, I know that I myself cheer for whatever other team is playing against either team, as both teams are sorely deserving of a good dose of the thoroughly humiliating humble pie they so ruthlessly and regularly dish out on others.

This "US" (as in "we") and "Canuckle-headed" lack of class has also evidenced itself at numerous FIRS Women's Inline Hockey World Championships that I've attended over the years, with both teams ruthlessly running-up scores way beyond any semblance of reason or decency. The memories of both teams unnecessarily using their MUCH larger physical size against the MUCH MUCH smaller Japanese and Mexican squads was thoroughly disgusting on one level, but yet again, ironically inspiring on another in the sense that both the smaller Japanese and Mexican women very admirably never backed down or let the ruthless and unnecessary physical bashing by the US and Canadian teams kill their fighting spirit or will to compete...for even a single goal. And really, what kind of DECENT player, program or coach scores 2, 3 or 4 goals in the last 2 minutes of a game already way out of hand score-wise anyway...?!?

I think that the talent level amongst the non-north American levels has dropped drastically over the last four years. It's a shame as any growth at any level of the sport is a good thing, but if other countries don't begin supporting the teams like the United States and Canada, the sport could be going the way of Softball.

Quite the contrary -- I've travelled all over Europe and Asia and have seen an amazing level of growth and development in not only the size of the women's game, but also much more importantly, in the relative skill-sets and on-ice/in-play 'grasping' of both the "science" and "art", if you will, of the game -- tremendous "talent" and "skill" improvement over even just 5 years ago. And of course, all the while, the US and Canadian talent pools are getting MUCH MUCH DEEPER as well. You'd think that the powers that be in the women's game would want to safeguard and consolidate all of these important international gains by showcasing a classy level of competitive play and on-ice demeanor, especially by the 2 super-powers of their game, the US and Canada. What we are seeing with the Winter Olympics version of the game however, is simply an obscene display of classless ego-centric play by the US and Canadian teams who are both too collectively selfish, self-centered and stupid to see or even care about the damage they're obnoxiously arrogant and unsportswoman-like play is clearly doing to the perception of the women's game as a whole. And this alone, while definitely NOT indicative of the relatively healthy state of the international women's game, is the main reason the US and Canadian programs may actually kill the "Golden Olympic Goose" that was specifically created to help the growth and publicity of the women's game.

What did you hear ?

Current US Olympic Speedskating Gold Medalist Chad Hedrick has also had a substantial inline speedskating/marathoning career pre-dating his 'ice' one. During his 'inline' career he won 93 national championships and 50 world championships, and while being so utterly dominant and almost unbeatable whenever he was at his best, he is even more impressively thought of as a very gracious champion with a supreme sense of sportsmanship who carried the inline flag with with dignity and class for his entire inline career.

Current US Olympic Short-track Speedskating Gold Medalist Apollo Ono also started his career in inline speedskating.

[quick_dry]

firstly I have no problems with the teams running the scores up during a tournament - you play to the rules, and in IIHF tournaments your for and against statistics matter. What should the teams do when they're clearly outclassing an opponent? play keep-away? give the other team the puck? doing that would be insulting to the other team IMO.

In FIRS they changed the rules because they have this notion that teams MUST be babied and players won't come back if they get beaten soundly. Instead we have rules encouraging teams to sit in their own ends and never challenge each other for fear of conceding a goal. Boring.

For what it is worth, the US and Candian teams in their last couple of games HAVE taken the foot off the pedal in the third period.

Dismissing the Finnish ice team as also-rans sounds like you looked at the scoreline, not watched the actual game. The shot count shows that they are the only team to give either US or Canada any trouble, and watching the game shows that they just couldn't finish (amusing as a bad a pun).

The Slovakian team that got demolished had players quoted as saying it was just an honour for them to get to even be out on the same ice as players like those girls. They exepect and understand the score being a blowout - they accept that in the Olympics everyone is there to perform to their highest possible level. Should Usain Bolt have slowed down to make the sprints a little bit closer? Why aren't we criticising the men for winning 8-0 over Norway, or the Russians 8-2 over Latvia.

There are quite a few inline skaters - ACCCT2 has already pointed out the speed skaters, also Australias Sophie Muir is an inline racer (and I daresay many of the other countries racers are also, since the pro inline racing circuit has more money than the ice racing AFAIK).

In the hockey there are several girls from inline (probably others, but these are just the ones I recognise from tournaments)

Anna Vanhatalo is the Finnish teams goalie in ice and inline (also the current World Champion gk in ringette). Some of the other girls sound familiar too.

Charline Labonte plays in the Candian Women's inline team.
Cherie Piper and Megan Agosta have also played on the womens team. (In previous years there were also plenty of other girls who were either in the program or on Olympic team also playing in the inline team)

The womens hockey standard has improved hugely, but when you have the money in the game and access to higher level competition that you do in North America it is unsurprising that those countries have improved to a higher level than other countries. Players from other countries are moving to go to US/Candian universities for their womens hockey opportunities e.g. Noora RATY of Finland.

[Drexel63]

This isn't a problem with just Canada and USA versus the world, it's just that these are the powerhouses of the tournament the whole world sees...

Interesting that no one has mentioned that the Slovakian team Canada beat 18-0 is the same team that qualified for the Olympics by winning a tournament in 2008, during which they beat Bulgaria 82-0... They totalled 139 shots, an average of a shot on net every 25 seconds, and a goal every 44 seconds... Bulgaria's goaltender still had a better than .500 saver percentage, and wasn't pulled until three minutes to go...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,106362

Interesting side note, there were only 39 people in attendance for that game...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hoc..._qualification

Other rediculous scores, poor Bulgaria... Italy 41-0 over Bulgaria, Croatia 30-1 over Bulgaria, Latvia 39-0 over Bulgaria, Slovenia 15-1 over Norway, Slovakia 18-1 over Croatia (in the final game of the tournament as well... so much for not letting off the gas to stay sharp for the next game)

This lends some credit to the claim that at least some of the blame needs to land directly on the IIHF's rules for these tournaments. While other qualifying tournament scores seem to be well within "sportsmanlike" guidelines, once one score gets out of hand in a pool, tiebreakers insist if you can pile it on, do so... after all, it is the OLYMPICS on the line...

So you take what you get... boring games when the tiebreaker is GA because teams are too afraid to let up a goal, or routs when the tiebreaker is goal differential, because if you rout one weak team more than everyone else in your pool, you take the tiebreaker easily... I'd personally rather have boring than 82-0, but there are extremes in every situation, right?

[Mlrhnorthfan]

From the US womens Ice team the following women played on the FIRS womens gold medal team at the Bilbao Spain games in 2007:

Angie Ruggerio
Julie Chu
Kerry Weiland

[ACCCT2]

Great factual and conceptual ("counter"?) points by both Steven ("quick_dry") and "Drexel63" -- however, in my own humble opinion, the actual Winter Olympics itself should be seen -- by especially the US and Canadian programs -- as something a lot more important both commpetition and image-wise than either of the 2 obviously now see it as.

Actually, the greatest thing done for the womens's game Winter Olympics-wise was NOT anything that either team has ever done win-wise, but when the Swedish team, largely on the strength of their outstanding goaltender, beat the US and won the Silver Medal in the 2006 Turin Games. And proud American that I normally am, I cheered for the Swedes against both the US and Canadian teams, as the Swedish women had clearly found their 'game' hearts and inspiration delivered in the form of a spunky and UN-intimidated goaltender.

Unlike the competitive team by team depth clearly in evidence in the men's game, especially the men's game as it is now, everyone KNOWS who the 1-2 favorites -- the OVERWHELMING, SHORT-of-an-UNEXPECTED-DISASTER-happening favorites -- that the US and Canadian teams indeed ALWAYS are in the women's game. This should be, and allegedly IS, the BEST possible showcase for highlighting the women's game, and yet both the US and Canadian women very arrogantly and UN-sportwomanlikely (and STUPIDLY) treat it as an entitled-to warm-up for their otherwise inevitable Gold Medal game against each other. And I myself don't like watching and definitely can't 'cheer' for such arrogantly obnoxious, self-sentered and selfish programs, teams or players.

[William Bourque]

I don't have a problem with teams running up the scores at the Olympics, you have a chance to perform to the best of your abilities, with the world watching, doing anything less than your best is cheating yourself.

[DannyG]

The Slovakian team that got demolished had players quoted as saying it was just an honour for them to get to even be out on the same ice as players like those girls. They exepect and understand the score being a blowout - they accept that in the Olympics everyone is there to perform to their highest possible level.

I find this an interesting point. What we do not know is the true mind-set of those involved, from either team.

I always teach young players to "be that player and that team that your opponents are glad they had the chance to play against, even though you always beat them."

I'm not sure that we have the ability to know if either the Canadian or American teams are that category of team or not. We do note that when the USA player (women) went after her opponent with a cheap shot hit with ten seconds to go in an out-of-hand game, the American announcer (A.J.?) immediately called her on it, and in very strict (for a broadcaster) terms.

When Coach Ben changed the guard of the USA national team, and left Cammi, et al, off the roster for 2006, I am not certain if this change left certain high quality elements out of the team mix.

[zipyaj]

More on Olympics Inline... this in today's NY Times

Davis and Hedrick Seem to Move Past Turin Friction
By KAREN CROUSE
Published: February 19, 2010

excerpt... Hedrick, 32, was nearly 25 when he crossed over from inline skating, where he was a 50-time world champion, and has never been known for his humility or work ethic. Although he carries a United States passport, he proudly describes himself as a citizen of the great state of Texas.

excerpt... Davis was asked this week how he and Hedrick had managed to bridge their differences and find any common ground. He answered by recalling arguments he had with childhood friends over who was the greatest athlete in the world.

“I’d say, of course, Michael Jordan, and then there’d be an inline kid telling me it was Chad Hedrick,” he said. “I think the common ground would be that we’re both at the top of our game,” he said, “and we both want to win.”

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/20/sp...edskating.html


Best!

[DannyG]

another observation:

We heard a short media discussion about whether the NHL can "afford" to continue to shut down for the two week olympic "break."

After seeing the quality of play going on in this event, this tournament is really good quality hockey. This is no longer just the level of an NHL or NBA all star game, or for another example, the NFL Pro-Bowl game. There is actual, high-level group and team levels of play equal to the individual skills involved.

The quality of the Swedish Elite or the KHL player is also dramatically greater this time around.

This is great, high-level hockey.

If the NHL thinks they can dictate to the olpmpics in this way, they are nuts. The NHL shouls think of a creative way to promote the olympics, and the resultant "break" in NHL action, as part of its own program, 'cause they ain't gonna keep players from playing in 2014 or thereafter. Imagine a pro soccer team or league telling it's players they couldn't play for their country in the World Cup....ridiculous.

Just my opinion, remember where you heard it, and please give me the footnote if you quote me on it...

[quick_dry]

What do people want USA and Canadian women to do during the game?

When countries that are so dominant are competing against countries with very little depth, what should they do? Deliberately give the puck away to create some fake sense of excitement? It is a shame that there isn't a more level playing field, but the only way to improve is by playing those better hockey players yourself and striving to be that good. Hopefully other countries will devote more resources towards improving their teams.

I think it would be unsportsmanlike to make fun of your opponent, to run a flying V for kicks, or pull your goalie 'just because'. It might be unsportsmanlike to have your Mites or Atoms team demolish another bunch of little kids who can't skate 50-nil, but these are adults in the Olympics. They know they're taking a butter-knife to a gunfight, yet they go and play hard the whole time anyway - I think not giving them the same level of respect is unsportsmanlike. It is also very damaging/limiting to these weaker countries because it deprives them of the few chances they get to raise their own level - and THAT makes it take that much longer for the womens level of hockey to improve across the board.

(we've all heard of regression towards the norm, or newtons laws of cooling - those concepts apply really well to hockey development. Perhaps you don't see it when you're from the big countries, you go home and play guys that are at the same level all the time - but the little countries take their handful of players that can't extend themselves, and suddenly they're plunged into this higher level of play, so they pick up dramatically and take it home - and those players at home pick up a little bit to compete against teh returning player. So little by little every tournament these lesser countries improve their own level BECAUSE they're in a sink-or-swim environment.)

Bill: I don't know if you appreciate just how boring I mean by boring. I mean Canada literally sat with the puck behind their net for approx ten minutes, advancing the puck past their goal line when the ref made them, then taking it back behind. France stood in a box behind the red line for the same amount of time, not crossing the red line into the canadian half of the rink.

As for the NHL taking a break, I completely agree with the World Cup comparisons, it just makes sense to have a break for it. Though for the soccer world cup the situation is even more intrusive on teams and players due to the extra qualification games that must be played - unlike in ice where you have the divisions determined by world championship standings.

I think it is also huge for the chinese womens team to be at the olympics, their men are battling it out in Div2 (Australia kept them down in Div 2 when we got promoted to Div 1 in 2008), but these girls get to go to the Olympics and play the best in their world.