Players on roster - illegal players... How does your league handle this?

[CUDangled]

Curious...how does your league handle illegal players on the bench? Or tournaments that you play in...

I'm not interested in the casual "beer league" where no one cares. I'm only interested in the moderate to competitive leagues/tournaments. I am assuming that most leagues require you to "lock" your roster before the first game. After that, how long to have to protest an illegal player on the opponents bench? Before the games starts? Before it ends? Can you do it after the game?

Who is responsible for spotting the illegal players? Does the opposing team have to make a roster challenge to the ref?

We were talking about this issue the other night and it brought up some interesting points. I thought it would be a good topic to discuss here so that I can get some other viewpoints.

Interesting points that were brought up:

-(If you have to make the challange before the puck drops) Difficult for a coach (especially if the team only has one) to not only get his team ready during warm up, but also spot an "illegal player" on the other team - especially if he isn't familiar with the team. However, on the flip side, it could have been an honest mistkae (omission) from the roster and the coach would then have the chance to quickly make a correction. This could easily happen in a tournament, as an example, when rosters can vary weekend to weekend and a last minute change may have been made.

- (If you have to do it during the game) This can create an untimely delay while the roster is verified. What if the player is the legit and the coach is only making the challenge to stall the game? Should there be a penalty of some sort? Kind of like a coaches challenge for an instant replay in the NFL?

- (If you can wait until the end the game) This allows a coach to see the game play out, then make a challenge, presumably only if his team loses.

-(If you can submit the challange AFTER the game) Then it turns into "one team's word" vs "the other team's word" and could create a nightmare for the league/tournament officials to sort out. ESPECIALLY if the player in question had to wear another jersey for some legit reason. Now you could have a "witness" that swears number #15 is not (Insert name)...or #15 isn't on the roster - when in reality the kid is on the roster, just not as that jersey number.

Just some thoughts...looking for yours...

[zipyaj]

In our scholastic league (high school), final rosters are locked in advance to the first game of the season and signed game rosters are submitted to the scorekeeper in advance to each game.

Spotting an illegal player is most often by coaches and/or players on the bench, and occasionally by staff and/or bystanders, who are familiar enough to recognize the player(s) in the league or not.

Rules in place include:
9. Any team found skating an illegal player will forfeit all games in which that player has illegally participated. Players must remain eligible throughout the entire IHF season. Further, the player may face rink sanctions in addition to those levied by the IHF.
10. Any team found playing an illegal player will have an automatic suspension assessed to the Head Coach of up to 5 games, based on the particular circumstances. The IHF Board may assess additional disciplinary action if warranted.
1. Any team found using a player who is participating under a false identity will be subject to game forfeiture; Coach suspended for up to 5 games including but not limited to possible dismissal; Player suspended for up to 4 games including but not limited to possible dismissal, and/or actions at the discretion of the Board.

Hope this helps.

Best!

[CUDangled]

Is there a time frame in which this illegal player must be spotted? During the game? Before it ends? Bring it up to the league later? Etc...

Thanks!

[siberian khatru]

Since we are a USAHIL-sanctioned adult recreational league (a step up from a beer league, I hope) all our players have to register with that organization before the first game or scrimmage they attend.

Per the Rosters section pasted below from our Playing Rules page
( http://www.manhattanrollerhockeyleague.com/rules.html ), our Hockey Director uses that database to create weekly roster sheets that must be signed before each game starts. Captains get one preseason scrimmage and then five regular season games (out of ten total regular season games) to try out free agents and tweak their lineups before their team roster is locked through the end of our championship playoffs.

Having the league's Hockey Director closely monitor the rosters keeps us clear of having non-roster ringers show up after half the season has been played. We also don't have to deal with challenges from opposing teams.

Mark Barbour
Chairman
Manhattan Roller Hockey League

ROSTERS

All MRHL players must register with www.usahockeyregistration.com in the inline section as a player. The annual cost is $30 per player. You must bring your confirmed copy of the bar-coded registration receipt form to the rink. These forms have to be scanned in by the league’s Hockey Director to complete your registration process with USA Hockey InLine. If you do not have this USAHIL registration form you will not be allowed to play.
At every game the MRHL will have a roster sheet you are required to sign in on before you play a regular season or playoff game. Every player MUST sign (print) his name on this sheet before the start of the second period.

No player will be allowed to join a game in progress after the second period has started - NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE. This allows the contest to be played in the flow of the first period of the game as players have acclimated themselves to the strength of players on the opposing team. Introducing a new player that might affect the outcome of the game after the start of the second period would not be fair to the other team who had all of their players at the rink when the game was started.

USA Inline Hockey will be submitting a weekly roster to the league's Hockey Director as we scan your registration confirmation sheets. All players on that roster are the only ones that should expect to play. Any player not on the roster will not be allowed to play. The league will keep track of players participating in games during the regular season. Any individual player must have played four (4) full regular season games to make it onto a team's locked playoff roster. The Hockey Director will keep a very close eye on this. The MRHL does not allow an individual player to play for more than one team during the regular season or playoffs. Team rosters will be locked after Week 5 of the regular season. The MRHL Hockey Director will send each team captain a list of players who have qualified for the playoffs.

[iwearstripes]

I've been approached about this before in games I referee. Players will come up to me and say "Hey ref #12 isn't on their roster that's [whoever] from team [whatever]!" I generally look at the player like he has 3 heads. While I know many players by name, and others are familiar faces, its asking a lot to expect a referee to enforce a roster. I usually note it on the score sheet, and tell the captain to contact a league administrator after the game.

From what I've seen in a number of leagues I've worked, the game goes on, and if the administrators determine an illegal player was used, the offending team forfeits the game. Some leagues impose additional sanctions against the team/player for violations of this sort.

[DieselBurns]

You guys take leagues too seriously. In our league we have guys who play for Team USA that will just drop in and play a game with a team. No one cares. If you're getting spun up about an illegal roster in a roller hockey league, you have issues.

[quick_dry]

You guys take leagues too seriously. In our league we have guys who play for Team USA that will just drop in and play a game with a team. No one cares. If you're getting spun up about an illegal roster in a roller hockey league, you have issues.

that really depends on the league - some do and some don't. It isn't fair in a graded competition for example.

In our tournaments the rosters are locked after the first game of that team.

In league play, illegal players were determined by the league and the team would forfeit. Most fo the time this was effectively determined before the game - one side didn't have enough people to play and pull in someone who wasn't legally allowed to sub-in, and teams would agree to just scrimmage so they didn't waste the drive out to the rink.

[hockeynuts]

in our house league we have players that will stick around and play with a team if they need a guy. no one cares its all good . I reff in the bronze and silver leagues and those teams are a little more serious about illegal players. They protest, the league investigates , the team is credited with a loss.

[PGHhockey]

This is probably one of the 3 biggest issues any rink can face regarding gameplay.

I played in a tournament recently in a B division, where you could only roster 2 players from the A division. After one team's 3rd round-robin game (which had big playoff implications), the tournament director went out on the rink and informed the captain that even though they had won, they now lost by forfeit because they had 3 "A" players in that game, one of which was not on the roster. He caught the error by knowing the players...the opposing team, referees, and scorekeeper had no idea. Some of you may not think that was fair, but it's also not fair to break the clearly-posted rules. (I loved it since their forfeit put my team in the playoffs haha)

In the league I manage, we require sign-in sheets before every single game. The scorekeeper is required to check the names on the sheet vs. the names on the roster, and the # of guys on the sign-in sheet vs. the # of guys on the rink. Rosters are frozen after the 3rd game. These checks and balances eliminate 9 out of 10 problems.

So, what's the only issue here? Guys who actually go through the trouble of signing in under someone else's name (either the ringer who was never on the roster, or the guy who didn't play enough games to be eligible for playoffs). My thoughts on that? We'll do everything we can to catch you, and if the opposing captain challenges the roster at any time during the game, you lose. In certain instances I have caught the illegal roster after the game (believe it or not, I caught them by noting totally different handwriting on the sign-in sheet, and confirmed with the 'ghost player' that he was not there for that game) - and decided to suspend the captain in addition to the forfeit.