What happened to GP D1???

[Ben Lambert]

We were so excited to be able to move up to division 1 las year and be able to compete among the "best" teams in the region. Looking at the division his year, it has 4 teams and Division 2 has 12.

The divisional realignment was supposed to make it so the best, most organized teams play D1.

Are you telling me that our division is so weak that we can only field 4 D1 teams??

Not to call anybody out, but Truman St, Missouri St., SLU, where are you guys?

"It is to be noted that high-caliber talent is not a prerequisite to play Division I; rather, Division I is intended for the most organized and committed member clubs." -- Straight from NCRHA paperwork.

I think that you are selling yourselves short. You have matching jerseys and pants, coaches, and fulfill all other reqirements to play d1. Is it that you aren't committed? Scared of losing a few games?

We weren't scared of losing a few games, we knew we'd have to play Lindenood a few times. We moved up and did pretty well.

I kept hearing last year how good MO St. was especially and hearing a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us, and they are in D2 again this year.

When we played Truman St, it was a close game for the first half, we were losing 2 - 0 after the 1st period!! D2.

I keep hearing about "xyz is going to slu, slu is getting ice hockey players they are gonna be sick!!" D2.

Do you guys think that you are really that much worse than Mizzou that you can't step up and play with the big boys? Are you really that scared of Lindenwood?

For the sake of our region, grow some balls and move up. It makes everyone look bad that nobody will play D1.

Ben Lambert

[sh105]

I find this post comical. Two years ago it seemed all of the GP D1 teams wanted UMSL to move up to D1 and they refused. UMSL is now D1 and they would like more teams to move with them to that division for more competition.

[wednthavddr]

It is not about how good your team is. It is about how organized you are. It just so happens that most of the good teams are organized because the people involved enjoy playing hockey and are willing to put in the time and MONEY to have a very organized club.

[Ben Lambert]

You would all laugh when you found out that probably more than half of the teams in the NCRHA have a bigger budget than our d1 and b teams combined. It's no tall about money. It does help, but we will make it on 25% of the budget we are used to this year becuase our players want to...

Where there's a will, there's a way.

There are plenty of teams who could move up (from all across the country in every region) and quit sandbagging in d2. The fact is that people are scared to move up because they think they may not qualify for nationals which is kind of stupid in itself because more teams from d1 qualify for nationals.

You get more games at better times, too. No 7am games for us!

We are twice the team we were last year and we owe a lot of what we did last year and this year to moving up. Moving up to d1 will prove to be the best thing we ever did for our organization. We have some kids on our team this year who wouldn't have even considered umsl if we would have stayed d2... (dare I mention) PJ Tallo? Meade? Propp? Endom? Gwozdz? No way would these guys have come to our school if we stayed D2.

It's not like we won every year in D2 (like Neuman... Sorry, it's true--2 Championships in 3 years), but after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years, where can we go? It would've been great to stay D2 last year and run the table, but we realized it was time to step up and accept the challenge of playing d1. Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.

Move up, man up... you may just surprise yourself.

4 teams in Divison 1 Great Plains?? A JOKE.

[Ben Lambert]

PS we didn't move up because Ames wasn't going to return and our goaltending was a huge question mark.

[teamcarramrod]

We were so excited to be able to move up to division 1 las year and be able to compete among the "best" teams in the region. Looking at the division his year, it has 4 teams and Division 2 has 12.

The divisional realignment was supposed to make it so the best, most organized teams play D1.

Are you telling me that our division is so weak that we can only field 4 D1 teams??

Not to call anybody out, but Truman St, Missouri St., SLU, where are you guys?

"It is to be noted that high-caliber talent is not a prerequisite to play Division I; rather, Division I is intended for the most organized and committed member clubs." -- Straight from NCRHA paperwork.

I think that you are selling yourselves short. You have matching jerseys and pants, coaches, and fulfill all other reqirements to play d1. Is it that you aren't committed? Scared of losing a few games?

We weren't scared of losing a few games, we knew we'd have to play Lindenood a few times. We moved up and did pretty well.

I kept hearing last year how good MO St. was especially and hearing a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us, and they are in D2 again this year.

When we played Truman St, it was a close game for the first half, we were losing 2 - 0 after the 1st period!! D2.

I keep hearing about "xyz is going to slu, slu is getting ice hockey players they are gonna be sick!!" D2.

Do you guys think that you are really that much worse than Mizzou that you can't step up and play with the big boys? Are you really that scared of Lindenwood?

For the sake of our region, grow some balls and move up. It makes everyone look bad that nobody will play D1.

Ben Lambert

There are divisions for a reason. SLU is a division II team because of its lack of skill/talent. As are the other teams in the division. Yeah, agreed you had a good game with Truman St. last year but 1. not every team can do that (K. State for example) and 2. every year teams lose and gain players and say a team is really good one year they may lose their top line and not be able to compete the next year. It is somewhat happening to Truman St. Their team is a lot of older players right now so yes maybe they can compete now, but if they moved up and didn't get any new talent then inevitably they would have to move back down because they wouldn't be able to compete at that caliber of play.

I for one can somewhat speak for SLU, as i currently go there, and will state that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell for us to win a game in Division I. There were players and players at tryouts who would have barely played at the JV level in High School (not saying that i'm good). but you have to be realistic about the situation and not expect every team to be able to play division I hockey. Also, "XYZ playing at SLU" is no longer there and the ice team is an actually team this year for the other player, so we are back to a lines worth of players and if we played a Division I team we would lose by more that 10 goals a game, every game. Now, being afraid of a high caliber team, such as Lindenwood, is a bit of a stretch. You have to face reality and understand where your team stands and to play Lindenwood for a full game we would lose by, I don't know, 30 goals. It's not the fact that we are afraid, its the fact that we know that we aren't at that caliber yet (and probably never will) and are a Division II team.

Also, you have to look at the caliber of teams compared to the nation. One, we wouldn't win a game in Division I, but say we did go to nationals and play other teams there. It would be the same outcome as every other game in St. Louis would be. Understand yet? Compared to the rest of the nation we are a Division II team, hands down.

Thanks.

[teamcarramrod]

You would all laugh when you found out that probably more than half of the teams in the NCRHA have a bigger budget than our d1 and b teams combined. It's no tall about money. It does help, but we will make it on 25% of the budget we are used to this year becuase our players want to...

Where there's a will, there's a way.

There are plenty of teams who could move up (from all across the country in every region) and quit sandbagging in d2. The fact is that people are scared to move up because they think they may not qualify for nationals which is kind of stupid in itself because more teams from d1 qualify for nationals.

You get more games at better times, too. No 7am games for us!

We are twice the team we were last year and we owe a lot of what we did last year and this year to moving up. Moving up to d1 will prove to be the best thing we ever did for our organization. We have some kids on our team this year who wouldn't have even considered umsl if we would have stayed d2... (dare I mention) PJ Tallo? Meade? Propp? Endom? Gwozdz? No way would these guys have come to our school if we stayed D2.

It's not like we won every year in D2 (like Neuman... Sorry, it's true--2 Championships in 3 years), but after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years, where can we go? It would've been great to stay D2 last year and run the table, but we realized it was time to step up and accept the challenge of playing d1. Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.

Move up, man up... you may just surprise yourself.

4 teams in Divison 1 Great Plains?? A JOKE.

It's funny how you mention Gwozdz, since he is 27 and just wants to go to shcool.But, I'm sure he picked UMSL because of its DI standing;along with the other guys who i don't know. Also, UMSL does accept nearly anyone and everyone. The majority of people choose life over hockey, sorry.

[train]

well since you called us out, allow me to respond.

you stated that "after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years" it was time to move up. no disagreement there but lets look at what we have done the past 4 years:

04-05 = 7-4-1 - no nationals
05-06 = 8-10 - no nationals
06-07 = 10-7-1 - lost in the first round of nationals
07-08 = 15-0-3 - lost in first round of nationals

not really close to the success of umsl. you guys dominated for a few years at all levels before moving up. have you considered the thought maybe we are just a year or two behind you guys in development?

i honestly think moving up to d1, not only losing games but maybe missing nationals, would do more harm than good for our program. students at missouri state still don't even know we have a team. it isn't for a lack of trying on our part, just not much interest for roller hockey in springfield.

you say you are twice the team since moving up. you got that way by having sustained success and heavy recruiting. if we go undefeated this year and actually compete well at nationals, we should move up. since we don't have the resources to recruit (let's be honest, being in st. louis is a pretty big advantage) and have had one good year in the past 6, i think we are fine where we are.

and regarding all the talk about us being great last year and "a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us," i liked to know what missouri state player said that because i don't think anyone of us did.

[train]

It's funny how you mention Gwozdz, since he is 27 and just wants to go to shcool.But, I'm sure he picked UMSL because of its DI standing;along with the other guys who i don't know. Also, UMSL does accept nearly anyone and everyone. The majority of people choose life over hockey, sorry.

i wanted to say something about school standards in my post but i refrained. i think cost of tuition is a big contributor to why you guys and washu might have hard time getting good players. i'd personally like to have kids that choose my school for academics rather than hockey, but whatever floats lindenwood's boat.

side point: does anyone know what the graduation rates are for roller hockey players? i think i'd be interesting to see the rates for schools. i really don't know what to expect.

[islanderfan]

I don't believe there are many more organized teams than K-State. Saying that, I still don't believe we should play D-1 in the Great Plains Region. I do not like the current rules for divisional alignment. I mentioned this before they were implemented, and my opinion has not changed. I do not believe that clothes make the team, as the NCRHA appears to saying by their divisional requirements. I really don't believe that anyone in the GP would want K-State in Div-1. I would have a hard time traveling as much as we do without the hope for a victory. As you all know, we struggle for victory in D-II.
As far as support from the school goes, we get 10% of our budget from the student senate, nothing from the school. The other 90% is spent on rink rental and travel expenses, which are huge for us. We do not have the budget for matching helmets, gloves, pants, etc. We've invested in other things which are more immediate needs for the team.
The GP has always looked at div 1 as the tougher division, and as long as all the schools feel this way, it will not change. The NCRHA is attempting to change this with their new divisional structure, but it is obvious from this conversation, that the GP teams are not buying this. If the region really was divided by the organizational level of clubs, both divisions would have a diverse level of talent. Since that obviously has not happened this year, we will stay div II. My goal is to bring my club into div I in the future, but the budget is not there this year, nor is the divisional alignment happening as envisioned by the NCRHA as far as the GP is concerned. If the teams in the region were to adopt the NCRHA standards, we would also, but I think that's a long shot.
In closing, I look forward to playing the new teams in Div II. It's always good to play people you haven't seen before. That's how you learn the game.

[JLambertUMSL]

I find this post comical. Two years ago it seemed all of the GP D1 teams wanted UMSL to move up to D1 and they refused. UMSL is now D1 and they would like more teams to move with them to that division for more competition.

You must be talking about '06-07. It was a matter of having adequate personnel. The fact that we returned one goaltender that season, who was coming off a 5-10-2 season on our B team, might have had something to do with it.

It turned out that we used an untested freshman in goal for the first semester, and then Thomas Ames unexpectedly came back in January.

Had Ames and Wetton both returned in September, we'd have moved up that season. However, we started the season with two goaltenders -- and nothing personal against them, but neither had a prayer of competing in DI.

The first semester that season proved that we didn't belong in DI. We needed third-period comebacks to beat Wash U and Missouri State, and needed a goal with three minutes left to tie SLU. Then later that season, even after Ames and Wetton came back, we lost to Truman anyway. It's not like we were Neumann smoking everyone 15-1 and winning 20-plus games in a row.

And then we lost in the semifinals at Nationals in front of a huge, loud hometown crowd. Our team was not all that good that year. Not good enough to justify moving up when we had four rivals in DII who were all competitive with us.

[JLambertUMSL]

Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.

Christian Bernad....IMO the best DII player in the country last season. Now at Long Beach.

[JLambertUMSL]

i wanted to say something about school standards in my post but i refrained. i think cost of tuition is a big contributor to why you guys and washu might have hard time getting good players. i'd personally like to have kids that choose my school for academics rather than hockey, but whatever floats lindenwood's boat.

side point: does anyone know what the graduation rates are for roller hockey players? i think i'd be interesting to see the rates for schools. i really don't know what to expect.

I know UMSL's graduation rates. (These are "A" team only. B team would probably raise our averages, though.)

The following percentages, based on the Nationals roster, also include one player who will graduate this year (Doug Purk), one still on track (Zach Stacy, a freshman in 04-05, still attends UMSL but doesn't play), one who has already graduated from elsewhere (Matt Wilson, Mizzou), and one who has transferred and is pursuing a career as a paramedic (Dory Williams).

2003-04: 92%
2004-05: 83%

The following percentages (since they are so recent) count players still on track to graduate, from UMSL or elsewhere (John Angelbeck, Mizzou and Jason Shields, University of New Orleans), and Scott Kincaid, who served in the Army Reserve the whole time he was at UMSL and is now in the police academy (I don't count his "failure" to graduate against us)...

2005-06: 85%
2006-07: 80%

[train]

We (some of us from UMSL) were talking about that the other day. I'll defer to the actual statistic if James Lambert wants to chime in, but, excluding transfers, our graduation rate is almost 100%, I believe. We have had transfers to Mizzou, Meramec (for nursing/paramedic), and Eastern Missouri Police Academy, but I think all others with few exceptions, if any, have graduated or are still currently enrolled. But, like I said, I'll defer to the actual statistic.

I'd like to know what other schools' graduation rates are, too. I have no doubt there are some schools out there that have perhaps as little as a 25% graduation rate (not counting transfers).

i guess i am really more interseted in how long it takes to graduate, meaning do most players stop playing because they graduated or because of eligibility?

[JLambertUMSL]

i guess i am really more interseted in how long it takes to graduate, meaning do most players stop playing because they graduated or because of eligibility?

The five-year eligibility rule hasn't been in place long enough to be able to tell.