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Thread: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

  1. #1
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    Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    Hi Folks,

    This was on MiamiHerald.com today. I think it says very well what I'm trying to say when I complain about personal attacks and vitriol on Inline Hockey Central's Forums section.

    I've made bold some especially pertinent text.

    ***

    We Need Online Rules

    Posted on Mon, Mar. 17, 2008

    BY EDWARD WASSERMAN
    edward_wasserman@hotmail.c[email protected]

    As traditional news outfits migrate online to become dot-coms, one of their biggest headaches is how to adapt to the sprawling new frontier of public comment.

    In the pre-Internet world of TV and newspapers, public comment wasn't a problem. Broadcast news didn't have any -- aside from the weekly guest spot, usually some hapless civic association president reading from a prompter and staring terrified into the camera. Papers had their letters pages, but allowed only enough space for a few dozen a week, and they were generally written with care and were easy to prune for taste and diction.

    Things were nicely under control.

    But on the Internet, public comment isn't kitchen table talk, it's saloon brawl. Postings are sharp and rough-and-tumble. Harsh and derisive exchanges are common. So are personal attacks. Chat rooms and message boards routinely allow people to post comments anonymously. Only when postings are so egregious, so outrageous, racist or vile that other participants cough up hairballs do managers strike the comments and banish the authors.

    That's the cyber pond that traditional news organizations are diving into. They understand that their own futures hinge on re-establishing online the central role in civic life that they've played offline. So they are eager to host forums where people in the communities they serve go first to offer comment.

    What about taste, civility?

    So they embrace the rambunctious discourse of the Internet with the zeal of the convert -- and the sweaty fervor of the desperate: Got something to say? Tell us!

    Editors who would never dream of running an unsigned letter-to-the-editor now argue for promiscuous anonymity.

    And taste and civility, respectfulness? Old-line values of a discredited media elite.

    I exaggerate, but not that much. The new guiding principle is hands-off. At an American Society of Newspaper Editors workshop I attended recently in California, some very good and high-powered online journalists -- not the consensus, admittedly -- suggested that even screening postings would drive commentators to other websites, where they could speak their minds without restraint. And that would be ruinous to newspapers' online strategies.

    The Organization of News Ombudsmen, a group I admire and to which I belong, has an e-mail thread right now soliciting input on how news organizations should handle public comment: Is it to OK to block anti-immigrant rants, to weed out defamation, to protect privacy and attempt to enforce some standards of reasonable expression? What about unsigned comment?

    Some organizations argue that they are providing a public space, which they don't have the right, let alone the duty, to regulate. It will look after itself.

    But is the marketplace of ideas self-regulating? Is defamation canceled out by testimonials, falsehoods by truth? Or does Internet talk promise another sad case of what the late ecologist Garrett Hardin called the ''tragedy of the commons'': Each individual herdsman benefits from putting one more head of cattle onto public pasture, and suffers little from cumulative overgrazing. In time, though, community disaster ensues.

    In this case, the extreme license given individuals to vent, dissemble, excoriate and indulge their hates verbally, winds up destroying the expressive freedom that other people, less bold and less opinionated, need. Venturing an opinion, even a sound one, just isn't worth the risk. The overall result is a less expansive, less robust sphere of expression -- and sound, worthwhile thoughts aren't shared.


    Public conversation -- exchanging ideas about what a community is and ought to be -- is something that has to be learned. Unfortunately, mainstream media have made a fortune teaching people the wrong ways to talk to each other, offering up Jerry Springer, Crossfire, Bill O'Reilly. People understandably conclude rage is the political vernacular, that this is how public ideas are talked about.

    It isn't. With the move online, journalism has the opportunity to morph into a practice based not just on information gathering and narrative skill, but of stewardship, of presiding over a community-wide conversation about what's going on and what matters.

    Those message boards and chat rooms aren't just market extension opportunities for media owners. They're warm and busy spaces where a new world of expression and communication is incubating.

    To say there should be rules, that communicants should be admonished to strive for honesty and civility and respect, is not to justify elitism. It's not even to prescribe the rules. But it's to acknowledge that rules are needed, and to kick off the process of writing them.

    Edward Wasserman is Knight professor of journalism ethics at Washington and Lee University.
    Sincerely,

    Richard Graham
    Editor
    Inline Hockey Central

  2. #2

    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardGraham View Post

    But is the marketplace of ideas self-regulating? Is defamation canceled out by testimonials, falsehoods by truth? Or does Internet talk promise another sad case of what the late ecologist Garrett Hardin called the ''tragedy of the commons'': Each individual herdsman benefits from putting one more head of cattle onto public pasture, and suffers little from cumulative overgrazing. In time, though, community disaster ensues.

    In this case, the extreme license given individuals to vent, dissemble, excoriate and indulge their hates verbally, winds up destroying the expressive freedom that other people, less bold and less opinionated, need. Venturing an opinion, even a sound one, just isn't worth the risk. The overall result is a less expansive, less robust sphere of expression -- and sound, worthwhile thoughts aren't shared.


    ...

    To say there should be rules, that communicants should be admonished to strive for honesty and civility and respect, is not to justify elitism. It's not even to prescribe the rules. But it's to acknowledge that rules are needed, and to kick off the process of writing them.
    Brilliant post, Richard. And perfect timing. This exactly why both "FLATBALL39" and I have decided that we will not be posting (or "sharing") our thoughts, insights, ideas and opinions on IHC anymore: we both have better and more important things to do than to engage and endure certain people who feel the unbridled need to commit a "chainsaw massacre" of defamation, insult, obscenity and unconscionably ignorant incivility on anyone who happens or dares to have even the slightest differing opinion, thought, insight or idea that even remotely seems to run counter to their own vitriolically intolerant, and apparently, unassailably sacrosanct, infallible and unimpeachable positions and/or command of the absolute "facts" (no matter how amazingly uninformed, unsupported and/or indefensible)...

    What was that famous quote...oh yes --

    "Facts are the enemy of truth."

    Miguel de Cervantes
    Man of La Mancha
    Spanish adventurer, author and poet (1547 -1616)

    Again, brilliant posting, Richard. Keep up the good work and once again, Thank You for all the fine "everything" you and Mike do in making IHC available to...well, everyone (and, umm...anyone?).

    Hmmm..."tragedy of the commons" indeed...

    Cheerio all...!!!
    Last edited by ACCCT2; 03-19-2008 at 02:10 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    Captain Adjective has left the building...
    Brass Bonanza!

  4. #4

    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    ,,,and good riddance to him, say I.

    Free speech and an honest exchange of opinions is wonderful. Giving people a headache while spewing your venom is not.

  5. #5
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I second that opinion ....

    Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
    Who Own the Chiefs? .....
    OWNS .... OWNS

  6. #6

    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    On the bright, light side, looks like we cured him of his formatting problem.

    Forums imitate life. People get a chance to talk about what everyone else is thinking but no one else is saying, behind the "safety" of their keyboard.
    There is a lot of misinformation on internet forums but when you sign your posts and aren't anonynomous like some people on this site are, at least you can be rightfully and accurately called out on your misinformation.

    If you want a productive, responsible, common sense internet forum, there is one simple solution. Don't allow anonymous posters or instead, dedicate a single forum to it. Otherwise, expose someone's email address or better yet require a first and last name and see how quickly people check their facts, spelling and attitude before posting. Sure there are ways around that but if the common goal is an informational, useful and relevant forum, why should anyone have anything to hide?

    -Joe

  7. #7
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    I agree Joe.

  8. #8
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    Hey Joe (great song),

    I always give more credence to people who have the courage to put their name next to their comments and stand by them. I really dislike (to put it mildly) people who attack others anonymously.

    I'd like to hear what other IHC readers think about ending anonymous comments in Forums. It certainly would make the Forums section easier to administer... except for the fact that people could easily pretend to be someone they weren't until they were caught.

    Readers?
    Sincerely,

    Richard Graham
    Editor
    Inline Hockey Central

  9. #9
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    It's a good theoretical idea but it would be nearly impossible to put into practice, in the same way that it's impossible to totally filter junk email. The more filters you build, the harder these "internet termites" will work to break through.

    If someone gets their kicks by coming on a message board pretending to be someone they're not (or simply cloaking their identity altogether), why invest the energy and resources to weed them out- why not save everyone's time and effort and just ignore them?

    Sorry if it seems like I'm oversimplifying what may be a more complicated issue than I even realize, but that's my opinion from a "simple and easy" perspective.
    Brass Bonanza!

  10. #10
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    Re: Common Sense; Very Refreshing

    I enjoyed, years ago, posting without giving my name or any facts about myself on this forum. I kept from personal attacks but could spin a few people up in a NY minute. After about a month I thought this was unfair and decided to sign up with my name & a few facts about myself. I wanted to be a legitimate part of inline hockey, and was for a time, and with that role came responsibility. I have always thought that RG has done a great job with locking, deleting, etc any trouble spots. Things have to really degenerate before he acts so I feel no one's "right to write" has been taken away.(anyone watching the John Adams HBO series?) Here's to informative and sometimes poking fun posts about players & the sport we love!

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