Divisioning - Lindenwood - Survey

[playthegames]

A couple of questions for everyone:

1) What if the NCRHA created a true D1 that teams had to choose to play in? They could have some requirements for those teams to meet (matching jerseys/helmets/pants, coaches required, etc) but the idea being that it was a place for the teams that thought they could sustain one of the top programs in the country year in and year out? Would teams such as Eastern Mich, MSU, Towson, NC State, UCF, USF, UMSL, Neumann, Nevada, and others that have enjoyed success over the years want to join in a Division like this? or would they all choose to stay in a lower division and leave Lindenwood in a D1 by themselves?

For this discussion figure there would be a D1 that you had to choose to play in, and a D2 with greater than 18k and a D3 with less than 18k. Also still a division for the Community Colleges.

2) Are there any D1 teams that are getting frustrated enough with going to Nationals and playing for 2nd place that they might just stop going and turn down bids? Has anyone gotten to the point just competing in their regions is enough?

[GoRangrHky]

They tried this a few years ago, called CRHL Premier. It didn't really work for a number of reasons. I don't think CRH in general is ready for that again.

And you're going to turn down a trip to nationals because you KNOW you're going to lose? Why bother even playing the games then. Why don't we all drop like $7000 a team, give Lindenwood a trophy, and go out drinking the whole time?? Not going is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I can tell you there are PLENTY of teams in this country right now that feel they can show up and take home that trophy. All it takes is 1 win by someone in that bracket. I'm sure Michigan State would like to give it another crack. I'm sure UCF would like another chance, too. A matchup of URI-UC Irvine-Michigan St. would be tough, and might actually lead to one of them knocking them out. Never know unless you play the games...

[roy94]

Why is it a fairly large portion of those who post on this board feel that Lindenwood should just be given the D1 national championship?

Lindenwood has proven that they are the class of the NCRHA for the last 5 years. No one can deny that, nor should they try. Point being they had to EARN those victories. I didnt see last years final, so I wont reference it but the two previous to last years were very good hockey games. In Anaheim Penn State was down 4-3 after 2. I realize Lindenwood took control of the game in the third, but that had more to do with the lack of depth (I think PSU played 6 players) and conditioning on PSU's part. The next year Michigan State played a close semi-final game and Central Florida a close finals game against Lindenwood. Yes, Lindenwood won. Thats what championship caliber teams do. They win when it counts.

That said, I can assure you that not a single player on any of those teams felt that they couldnt beat Lindenwood on that day. One of Lindenwoods great strengths is that 90% of the teams they play dont believe they can be beat. Inevitably, eventually they will lose. It might not be this year, next year or for 5 more but it will happen. When they are beaten it wont be from the 90% who are willing to concede defeat before they even step on the rink. It'll be the 10% , the Towson's, Florida's, Michigan State's, Eastern Michigan's, the Neumans's and others who actually enjoy playing top competition even if it means losing. They play because its a challenge not in spite of that.

Basically what I'm getting at is there is no way in hell I would ever want to go to D2 just to avoid Lindenwood. On behalf of Towson University's Roller Hockey Club I assure you we would stay in D1.


Last I checked the point of competitive athletics was to compete.

[missionhockey19]

i agree somewhat with the part of letting the teams decide whether they feel they are skilled enough to compete at the D-1 level play D-1 and make it more of a skilled divison rather than by size...however maybe more like the regional directors decide if they can compete, i played d-1 the year the premier league was created, i never did get to see it because i believe it was the weekend before d-1 nationals were...what were the issues with having the premier league if anyone knows?

now once again this is just an idea, a discussion, for those that disagree, dont sit here and write about how pathetic the idea was, if you disagree, dont bash the idea beacuse no one will ever want to come up with ideas on possibly making the league better...

[James Lambert]

Lindenwood has two players from New York, three from California, two from Florida, one from Michigan, etc.

When schools other than Lindenwood are able to recruit and stack their rosters with elite players from a thousand miles away, then we'll have competitive balance.

Until then, the deck is stacked against everyone else.

Just calling a spade a spade.

[DGlass]

Lindenwood is very fortunate to be in the situation they are in. Persoanlly, I think every player on every team should want their school to support their roller hockey club in a similar manner.

The problem with Premier was that it tried to be too big, too soon. The NCRHA should come up with guidelines (based on organization, talent, comittment, etc.) to ensure that the teams in DI are representing the sport and their schools in the best possible light.

[alex]

Why is it a fairly large portion of those who post on this board feel that Lindenwood should just be given the D1 national championship?

Lindenwood has proven that they are the class of the NCRHA for the last 5 years. No one can deny that, nor should they try. Point being they had to EARN those victories. I didnt see last years final, so I wont reference it but the two previous to last years were very good hockey games. In Anaheim Penn State was down 4-3 after 2. I realize Lindenwood took control of the game in the third, but that had more to do with the lack of depth (I think PSU played 6 players) and conditioning on PSU's part. The next year Michigan State played a close semi-final game and Central Florida a close finals game against Lindenwood. Yes, Lindenwood won. Thats what championship caliber teams do. They win when it counts.

That said, I can assure you that not a single player on any of those teams felt that they couldnt beat Lindenwood on that day. One of Lindenwoods great strengths is that 90% of the teams they play dont believe they can be beat. Inevitably, eventually they will lose. It might not be this year, next year or for 5 more but it will happen. When they are beaten it wont be from the 90% who are willing to concede defeat before they even step on the rink. It'll be the 10% , the Towson's, Florida's, Michigan State's, Eastern Michigan's, the Neumans's and others who actually enjoy playing top competition even if it means losing. They play because its a challenge not in spite of that.

Basically what I'm getting at is there is no way in hell I would ever want to go to D2 just to avoid Lindenwood. On behalf of Towson University's Roller Hockey Club I assure you we would stay in D1.


Last I checked the point of competitive athletics was to compete.

Amen brother, Amen.

[sduffy25]

I think aligning the divisions by talent is better from a marketing standpoint too. When you think of any other college sport, the best teams with the best players are in Division I. These programs have been established for decades, but they had to start somewhere.

On the other hand, as someone pointed out, the unpredictable fluctuation in talent makes this realignment tough to sell. The days where kids pick colleges based on roller hockey may just be starting. In major college sports - football, basketball, hockey, etc. - the best teams/schools are such because they have a reputation and attract the best players year after year, and can offer them scholarships (and in football and basketball especially, a future in the pros). Lindenwood is the first roller hockey team to take this type of approach - regardless of whether it evolved out of success or was a planned effort. The sport of roller hockey is just a baby compared to all these other major sports. Hopefully one day, with a growing population of young players and passionate leaders like the ones we have today, roller hockey will eventually catch up. For now, it's growing pains. And for everyone, myself included, who wishes we could flip a switch and make roller hockey parallel ice hockey or football in status, we have to realize that it's just not there yet. The sport, especially at the college level, is going to take it's lumps for years to come. I think our league leaders realize what some players often don't - we have to make the best with what we have right now. We can't go bending rules or changing things every year to try and please everyone. It has to evolve on it's own.

[Respek]

Wow, thats all i can say about this thread. I keep reading all this BS thats teams should go down to D2 to avoid Lindenwood. Honestly I cant believe you wasted your time posting this BS. Ill be honest and say Yes Lindenwood is above any other team in the country, but they are beatable. The thing about sports is that anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Your team is a bunch of cowards if you move down because you feel like your playing for second place. I would feel better losing to a team like Lindenwood in the division my team belongs in rather then winning in a division we shouldnt be in. Once Lindenwood gets beat this year what are you going to say then? Should Lindenwood move down because they lost? There ae so many elite programs out there and i know of a few teams that are getting talented kids because of their roller hockey programs. Mark my words the Lindenwood era will be over soon enough.

If your team is scared to play Lindenwood because you know your going to lose then you know what your not an athlete. However, you have to respect the Lindenwood program. The players and coaches are very respectable and congrats on everything they have done the last few years.

[MBurke]

The problem isn't so much that it's 'too soon' to do it - Premier was 5 years ago already.


All it would take to do it now is for all of the high-caliber organized teams to start pressuring their respective regions and NCRHA on a whole - don't just complain that you want more, talk to other teams, put plans together and bring it to your directors as a unified proposal that teams will back up.

As long as there are no plans in place and no real incentive for the good DII schools to move up (since they have plenty of good competition in DII from the other schools - vicious cycle kind of thing), I don't think we'll advance very far since our divisions really mean nothing. Many of the big names in DI could be playing DII by rights.

[STLhockey92]

who will beat them? just for a laugh id like to hear the responses.

[ISFN]

Laugh at the 2 games that they barley beat St.Charles, those were funny, took a bunch of recruits and out of town players(Some supposablely the best in the world) just to beat a Community College, LU will be beat this year.

[missionhockey19]

yah st charles, a DIII team...

[warwick]

to those that want to drop out of d1 to avoid lindenwood and play "down" in d2. what happens when u can't beat the neumann's and the umsl's then what will u do.

[STLhockey92]

i think its hysterical how little some of you know about hockey...