What Would You Do If...

[USAHIL]

Let's say that you could change or implement two or three "big picture" items that would help grow the game of roller hockey. By grow, I mean both locally at Anytown USA's house league and nationally as well.

Be constructive, be critical. (But please no slamming either - that's not too constructive.) How might USA Hockey InLine, house leagues, rinks, tournament series, manufacturers, etc. figure into your ideas and plans? Be prepared to enter into a dialogue so we can hammer out specifics of your ideas. Let's get a GOOD conversation going that will benefit this sport. We're listening and want your ideas.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[RichardGraham]

Hi Jay,

Great post.

How about an inline hockey "summit" at the next Let's Play Hockey Show in Las Vegas? I think the biggest problem with the sport is that so many people seem to be working at cross purposes, at worst, or in a vacuum, at best.

I really feel that we're at a major crossroads with inline hockey, and if we don't make some good decisions now, we'll all kick ourselves down the line.

If we could all work together to build the sport from the grassroots up, making a bigger pie, it would mean bigger slices of business for everyone.

Thanks for kick-starting the discussion!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[calihockey]

I agree with Rich. A summit must be held, but do not invite just the big names of the sport. You need to have players there whom actually pay for the leagues, tournaments and other costs. I think fragmentation is the worst problem with the sport. We ONE governing body and really push for inclusion into the olympics. We also need support from the governing bodies for the pro leagues and a unification of all the pro leagues. Sometimes we are so fragmented, the sport comes off as a joke to outsiders. I think USA Hockey Inline should form a committee made up of tournament directors, coaches, players and other long time supporters of the sport with the task to help better organize the sport and help promote the pro leagues, inclusion of the sport in the olympics and the creation of a solid grassroots program. Just my two sense.

[Ken]

I started the arena using USAHIL and hosted one of the regional championships-The tourney was run on USAHIL's part fine, but I have issues with the direction USAHIL had on 2 things that affected my business to such a degree-that I stopped supporting them.
1. The magazine that my arena and USAHIL members got each month had ads with prices from many discount outlets. This went to everyone that joined at my arena, and while many people will not buy hockey gear via mail order or the internet, many will use the published prices to price shop the local pro shop. This made margins in the arena pro shops very slim. Arena (Ice and Inline) depend heavily on pro shop sales to supplement league fees, by having ads with prices from shops with no arena affiliation does nothing to grow the sport. If arenas cannot survive-the sport doesn't survive-and the discount retailers will not survive (at least on hockey gear).
I was a sales rep in the Windsurf business through the full boom/bust cycle, and the retail pressure was the same-but more direct. The local pro shop was the place that everyone took lessons, and eventually bought a rig from. Eventually the heavy discounters made it impossible for dealers to profit. Dealers disappeared, and so did the learning centers. The sport today is very small. This seems to be the case in many of the gear intensive sports. A pyramid with no base.
2. The same magazine sold it's mailing list (which included all my players) to the local ice arena, and they sent out a "come play real hockey" flyer to my players.
At that point-for the next 7 years of the business I refused USAHIL's offers to join them. Everytime the USAHIL rep would call to solicit my business-I would repeat the above story. Nothing ever changed.
I cannot believe that arena owners continue to support someone that, in a passive way, is hurting your business. It is time for arena owners to actually form an alliance so that they can have a say in what goes on by these governing bodies.
3. The wars that Regional tournaments have is inexcusable. To reschedule tournament dates just to keep other tournaments from happening. To threaten Arenas that if they host a competitors tournament that they will be blacklisted? This is so counter-productive to the sport and the players. Hello-the players are your customers-without them we all die.
4. So much of promotion, rules, and way of thinking pertains to the tournament level player. That is wrong. That is the peak of the pyramid-and is a very small percentage of total players. A pyramid with a narrow base is no longer a pyramid-it is just a stick with a point on the top--and eventually it will stick you.
New/beginner recreational players are the future of the sport-no matter what age.
I have been out of the loop for a couple of years-if this has changed-GREAT and sorry for the dialog. If it hasn't-IT SHOULD.
I could go on--sorry to rant-but what do I know?

Ken Spencer

Former inline rink owner-10 years
Former sales rep for Bauer and Hyper-6 Years including Pro support for 3 RHI teams during the entire run of RHI

[MDE3]

Excellent analyses....

[USAHIL]

Ken,

I appreciate your feedback, even though it was somewhat negative towards USA Hockey InLine. We are trying to do the best we can for the sport. Sometimes changes are needed and we try to correct those things. Your feedback is needed to help us get better.

The mailing addresses were sold by a clearinghouse that was independent of the magazine. USA Hockey InLine realized that was a problem and we instructed the magazine staff and clearinghouse to stop doing that 4-5 years ago. To my knowledge, it hasn't happened since.

I agree with your comments about the "tournament wars." It doesn't help the sport when tournaments attempt to go head-to-head in an effort to quash each other. For your information, we changed a couple of USA Hockey InLine Regional tournament dates last year at the request of several different tournaments. Although it wasn't the best thing for us, we felt that it was best for the sport.

You are also right about the grassroots vs. elite players. You'll notice that my post was directed towards local leagues as well as nationally. We realize that the sport needs to grow from the roots - without roots, there can be no grass. The purpose of my post was to try and encourage a discussion to figure out some different strategies to help grow the game at all levels.

Thanks again for the feedback.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[Ken]

Jay,
Thanks for the reply.
The tournament wars was not directed at USAHIL-I noted that our tournament was fine-It was directed at the the wars that were going on here in California, and it was the stupidity of tournaments trying of quash each other, to the detriment of the players-Sorry for the confusion.
But, I noticed you skipped commenting on the advertising in the magazine. In other sports the advertisers were allowed to advertise, but were not allowed to post prices. This did not prevent players from shopping and buying from the advertisers, but it lessened the impact of the buyer that walks into the shop, magazine in hand, and price shopped.
I still feel it is wrong to give an arenas members a virtual shopping list from someone that is not trying to bring more players to any arena. this is parasitic, and bad for the sport.
Regarding the mailing list. It was WRONG, I lost players because of it, and the opportunity still exists. I would never pay USAHIL a dime unless USAHIL provided a written statement that it would never happen again. Think about the sanctity of the arenas databases. It is the same as just giving one or all my competitors (inline and ice) my database of members. What arena would do that? It was done, it has been proven.
I was so fed up with USAHIL that it spurred me to explore other alternatives (WHA-RHIA)-I did, and was happy with the results. Finally I found a great partner. I was able to provide excess medical coverage. Compliance issues were much easier and flexible. The cost per player was well under $10 each/year. No, the players didn't get a magazine full of competitors ads, no they don't get decals. But, I didn't have to provide my list of players to anyone. We had other sports at the facility also, and those were covered.
Any arena that wants an alternative can contact me.
My email is in my profile.
USAHIL has been around for over a decade-and NOW they are asking what can be done? Noticed a drop off in memberships? Surprised? Maybe it has something to do with the mentioned parasitic actions in some small part.

[USAHIL]

Ken,

Thanks for your reply. I would like to address a few of your points.

You have our word here on this board that our magazine staff will never again sell or rent our mailing lists - whether directly or through a clearinghouse. If you or anyone would like an official letterhead document stating this, we can send this immediately. Once we were alerted to this issue, the appropriate steps to rectify and correct it were immediately in place and this hasn't happened in at least 4-5 years, nor will it ever again.

A few weeks ago on another thread I posted a brochure of what USA Hockey InLine has done for the sport of inline hockey. These are the programs and services created by this company to better this sport. It illustrates what we have accomplished and what we will continue to do . Attached is the link to the brochure: <http://www.sealweenies.com/pdf/What has USAHIL Done (2004 final).pdf>

There was one comment I would also like to address. You stated "USAHIL has been around for over a decade-and NOW they are asking what can be done?" I respectfully disagree with this statement. We ask the question "What can be done to make this sport better?" every single day in the course of our business. We talk to league directors, rink owners, tournament directors, manufacturers, parents, coaches and players routinely about what we can do to make the sport better. I will agree that this is the first time we have asked "What can be done?" via a message board. We were hesitant in the past because sometimes these threads degenerate into negativity and unproductive discussion. However, we recently decided that we would give it a shot because we recognize that there are many members of this community that could provide us with great input.

Also, we haven't noticed a drop off in membership. In fact, our membership was up significantly for 2004-05.
Ken, we're trying. We're trying to work with as many different organizations as we can. We're trying to find ways to grow the game. We're trying to unify many of the sport's different players. We're trying to do it all in a positive, constructive manner. We're trying to move from fragmentation to unification - everything that is expected of a leader.

We want to remain on these message boards for the reasons illustrated above. To do so, they must remain constructive. We are in a position to move forward for the betterment of inline hockey. We will not move backwards...


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[RichardGraham]

Hi Jay,

Great response.

I especially appreciate you for:

1. Having the courage to post your message on IHC's message board in the first place. I agree that this kind of forum can rapidly degenerate into flame wars, and I try my best to keep that from happening...

2. Taking criticism and responding with detailed facts, and ...

3. Doing everything you've done for the sport of inline hockey, from your days with the Coastal Cup to your current position with USA Hockey InLine. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[DannyG]

This is a reply to all who have viewed this thread, both here, and on the sealweenies board...

I have professionally been involved with the national level state-of-the-business of roller hockey since 1987. At that time, I made contact with AHAUS, and USACRs. I chose not to affiliate with either organization, they didn't have what I believed was necessary to develop the sport for all players.

I next took a look at the national organization scene in 1993. I would have affiliated with NIHA, had they lasted another couple of years.

In 1995, I gave both USARS and USAHIL a thorough examination. At the time, USAHIL was overwhelmingly the better service, and actually had a mission to develop this fledgling sport in a positive direction.

In the past ten years, I have had occasion to discuss national tournament venues, national rules and regulations, player eligibility issues, etc. I have made several individual proposals regarding ways I have thought would make things better for all.

In every case except one, USA Hockey InLine has adopted my proposals, in many of these cases, simply because I pointed it out. In some of the cases, I am sure others were suggesting the same thing, but I do know that this is not the case in every instance.

I have found USA Hockey InLine to be the most responsive organization, and continues to post their mission/vision for all to see. You can also readily observe how well they work toward their mission day-to-day, as well as long term.

We are now waiting for the excitement that Jay has told us is coming. It will be here soon, I have no doubt.

I look forward to working with USAHIL for both the short term and the long term in making our sport better for everybody.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DannyG on 09/12/05 05:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[MDE3]

Just some observations....

I have been involved with hockey ice and inline both in the US and Canada..for more than a few years(maybe 30)....Nowhere is any organization &quot;perfect&quot; nor do any of them ever become immune to criticisms by dissapointed parents, rink owners, players, coaches etc. etc...stating the obvious here....

However the only organization I have experienced first hand that seems to be as close to altruistic in developing the sport, has been USAHIL...and as has been observed..neither is their history without a &quot;self interest agenda&quot; at certain times.

There is enthusiasm and expertise in running tournaments, throughout all the groups, but the closest to a truly professional development I have seen, was from the efforts of the USAHIL organization in their selection camps for USA Juniors and prospects....

In throwing out these comments I must admit to not having experienced State Wars, or recent AAU/USARS developmental efforts, but had previously seen many regionals and nationals from the USARS group, Narch and Tours. My comments are not meant to slight the tireless work by the individuals involved within those other groups, just to share my own limited observations as pertains to efforts which maintain DEVELOPMENTAL credibility.

There is no doubt that competing agendas in this sport at all age and skill levels is the greatest single roadblock to it's growth. However at some point it must be faced.....the business side of running this sport must for a while be subjugated to the need for real growth, internal discipline, and a common structure..and therein lies the rub. There are so many groups/individuals who currently depend on the income from the various tournaments to earn their living.....how can all this be re-structured to fall within a single comprehensive National organization?

Difficult no doubt, but, I believe the key to any one group gaining the confidence of all the other organizations will be their ability to promote a &quot;re-structure&quot; of the financial earnings of all the splintered groups so that they fall under a common earnings umbrella....and the resulting compromise is one that all can agree to work with.

Rink ownwers.....another equally needy group....needed and needy both..without their co-operation and enthusiasm for any program....any chance for success becomes moot. Ultimately this type of re-structuring will help the rink owners, because a broader, more predictable and more frequent playing schedule can be created.....This all must come together as one plan! As was observed so ably earlier..the pyramid must be re-created....

Fom my point of view....the only organization with sufficient parellel experience in doing this....is USAHIL..even though they will be borrowing from ice hockey expertise.....

[shockwave]

Jay,

I think you need to further promote the coaches clinics that you guys started last year. I would suggest you make it more wide-spread and begin offering a "leveled certification" similar to what you do with Ice programs.

Begin by offering a Level 1 cert class at all your affiliated rinks. Its drilled into Ice coaches that "this is first and foremost for the kids to have fun"....it seems a lot of the volunteer rec coaches A) are too concerned with winning and B) dont coach the game so that their kids learn "the game" regardless of whether or not they win.

Coaches clinics/coaches clinics/coaches clinics

Also, offer a free year of membership to high school seniors that teach a minimum of 3 or 4 clinics to the 12-unders and down. That might encourage them to "give back" to the programs they came up through. We've had several clinics at our rink given by the 18's travel team....they may teach the same thing the kids coach teaches...but its amazing how attentative young kids can be to the young men they admire and look up too.

Jon Amsberry
coach-Gwinnett Shockwave 10-under team
www.geocities.com/gwinnettshockwave

[USAHIL]

Jon,

Thanks for the reply.

We have offered coaching clinics for a number of years. We currently have Level 1 and Level 2 certification clinics that are focused on the things you pointed out in your post. Level 3 certification is currently in development and we hope to have that available in the near future.

If you or your league is need of coaching clinics, all you need to do is ask. Contact our National Coaching Coordinator Aaron Kriss at [email protected] if you need more information.

That is a great idea about involving the youth players in clinics and camps. We will pass that idea along to our member leagues and rinks. USAHIL currently offers Junior Development camps at various rinks around the country. One of the things that Aaron tries to do at these camps is to recruit 15-18 year olds to help out. He gives them a bunch of freebies - tshirts, sticks, etc. to reward them for their efforts. Maybe the next step we can take is to gently prod these guys into volunteering their time to coach a house league team. Obviously, they are already somewhat interested in helping with the younger kids so maybe just a little encouragement is all they would need. Good idea Jon.



Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[USAHIL]

MDE3,

Those are some excellent observations and thoughts.

So let's say that you were the man who was going to "promote a "re-structure" of the financial earnings of all the splintered groups so that they fall under a common earnings umbrella....and the resulting compromise is one that all can agree to work with." As you say, this is a tough nut to crack.

Can you expound a little on that thought? Specifically, what would you do or propose to try and make this happen? Additionally, how would this affect the local rink owner?

I think you are on to something and I'd like you to develop the thoughts a little more specifically for me.

Thanks again for the great input and I look forward to hearing further ideas.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[shockwave]

I'm not sure you can "restructure" the "financial earnings" side of roller hockey, Jay. Remember, all these tournament groups are "for profit" companies. People that at some point stuck their neck out to make a tournament series successful.

I think encouraging "partnerships" and santioning with USAHIL as a "national governing body" is probably more appropriate. I know you guys rescheduled your April Regional last year because of spring breaks in Atlanta and combined the tournament with TORHs. Between USAHIL, TORHs and the local rinks parents...what a great show!!!
USAHIL could possibly intice these tournaments to join forces with them by allowing their tournaments, in addition to USAHIL Regionals to serve as qualifying events for USAHIL nationals...as long as it is a sanctioned event.

Jon Amsberry