Inline Hockey's future

[DannyG]

I apologize at the start of this to those who are either offended or bored by this discussion...espeically in light of further assertions made by the Amateur Athletic Union, I feel compelled to continue the discussion. I address Grimmy's earlier information, point on point:


"These is NO OLYMPIC IN LINE HOCKEY" you are so correct in that comment. There isnt FOR NOW! There is however a real strong push to get it in the OLYMPICS.

-IOC President Jacques himself has said in front of a world-wide television audience that 1. the process for adding any Olympic sports is highly restrictive and controlled, 2. by published Olympic regulation, there will be no new sports added until and unless a present sport is dropped, and 3, there is no inclination whatsoever to add any such sports at this time. Those who are familiar with the process will tell you how many Olympiad "down the road" must pass before such a process would come to fruition, even if initiated today. Point is, we won't see inline hockey in any Olympics until 2020.


FACT..
1) USARS/AAU is the ONLY supported and recognized organized program by the IOC! They have the rights from congress and the IOC to be the program that has the ability to get this sport IN the Olympics. USAHIL does NOT have any rights to a) put players in or on any Olympic team OR perspective team WHEN they do allow the game in the Olympics. PERIOD!!

-USA Hockey is a member of the IOC. Walter Bush has been a member of the IOC board of directors. This is part of the problem that the IOC has in the U.S: The IOC has two members of the Olympic community (USA Roller Sports, and USA Hockey) that it already does business with. Both would like to operate the U.S. Olympic inline hockey program when and if the opportunity arises. Make no mistake abut this, to state the obvious, the U.S. Olympic (ice) hockey team is operated by USA Hockey, not AAU or USARS. Congress has made no Olympic NGB appointment for this sport. The IOC has made no such appointment. The IOC has requested of FIRS, who has of course requested of USARS, to provide program and team operation for U.S. participation in the Pan American Games, and the World Games, two Olympic affiliated events. USARS categorically points toward this appointment as their "mandate" for the Olympic team. USA Hockey continues to present its case to the appropriate national and international bodies. USARS has quit the inline hockey business. AAU continues to list USARS as "The National Governing Body of Inline Hockey" on its internet site. No such designation has been leagally made by congress or the IOC. The congreesional regulation that Keith Knoll, among others continues to promulgate as their "mandate," has nothing to do with either IOC appointment nor compliance with IOC regulation. For AAU to continue to use these terms is deliberately misleading to the public.

FACT: the ONLY reson USAHIL and NARCH joined together as one was a cash deal to inflate the numbers of participants in USAHIL to be able to go to the IOC to show "THEY" had the numbers to put a team together for the Olympics. (P.S. it didnt work)

I assure you that USAHIL, Narch, State Wars, and others, have a whole bunch of stuff planned for the future of inline hockey, and they will be doin it all together. In fact, what they accomplish will greatly enhance opportunities for all our players (even AAU players!) in the very near future. Less obliquely, there are many reasons, not just "the only," that NARCh and USAHIL have established a working relationship.

FACT:
USARS DID walk away from in line or excuse me ROLLER hockey. They did for several reasons. a) the program was in such dissarray. Even now it is more organized that it was then. b)there thought ice was more important to them. c) they SCREWED UP! suprised at that comment?

-Please don't trivialize my note that roller hockey is not inline hockey...in fact, the FIRS application on the Olympic proposal table, the one they are making that "real strong push" for, does not even mention inline hockey play.

Fact: right now no one is truly educated on how USARS and AAU are working. Everyone seems to have their own idea. Some are correct in their ideas some are not.

-I get my ideas regarding AAU from the published material on their internet site, the internaitonal sports media, Keith Knoll, national inline hockey director for AAU, and Raul Castaneda, district director for AAU inline hockey. My interest, and interactions are all first-hand.

I CAN tell you that AAU is running the inline-roller program to make it become more of an international sport. They are sending players and person to many countries to get the sport taught and rinks to be built. In countries like Argnetina where "cane hockey" was the hockey they played has now been changer to inline-roller hockey. Look at Ireland, the UK, Australia, Japan, etc. This has not happened overnight.

-These are excellent programs. They will help make the sport better everywhere.

I will admit that USARS did make a horrbile mistake in letting inline go. They do admit that.

You look at NHL right now, how many cities REALLY are missing it? Not many. They have made many mistakes on the way they chose to run the league. They wont admit to it. USARS does, and they have chosen the AAU to run the program. They are doing a wonderful job. This year alone will be the largest turnout for the USA Camps they have. The "Junior Olympics" was the best attended to date. Dont give me the fact oh heck it was in STL and all the STL teams attended. THAT is NOT TRUE!

I have no problem with the things that AAU has accomplished. I have a problem with what they are not doing. Their development camp is an ingratiating invitational, closed-shop operation. USARS didn't ask AAU to take over the program. USARS was incredibly lucky that AAU wanted to expand its market, and came along to take up the program when they did. AAU asked USARS, not the other way around.

Just another comment in closing, you say the using of the name means nothing, correct? Do this then... ok?
There in your hot bed of Texas, make a tournament and call it "USA OLYMPIC" tournament of "whatever". Lets see what happens, and then make sure you have a great attorney on call. If it didnt mean a thing, do you REALLY think that USARS/ AAU could use it? I'll answer it for you. NO!!

-Uh, now I must be misunderstanding your point. Where have I said that use of the Olympic terminalogy means nothing? On the contrary, I have said that AAU uses its "Junior Olympic, and USARS' pan american, world game, and FIRS nomenclature to imply that they are something they are not. I consider this to be a deliberately deceptive trade practice. Like calling your "golden arcs," different than MacDonald's "golden arches," to quote Eddie Murphy.

Now I know youll come back and have a HUGE article to respond.

-I apologize if I have wasted either your's or anyone elses' time.


I will not give a response and this is not to anger anyone. I just wanted to give a different perspective than yours. YOU LOVE USAHIL, I find them curious and different in their calculations. To have AAU to go into ICE would be a great way to bridge the gap between ice and inline. With the gap made more narrow how can it hurt? DO we see that USAHIL narrowing that gap?

One last question and you may not have the answer here. Maybe no one will.

WHAT CHANGES DID THE UNIFYING OF NARCH AND USAHIL ACCOMPLISH? WHAT CHANGES HAVE MADE IMPROVEMENTS HAVE THERE BEEN IN THE GAME? HOW HAS IT MADE ANY CHANGES IN THE EDUCATION OF THE GAME? HAS IT MADE IT STRONGER?

-This is happening already.

Or did it really just pad some ones pocket for the beloved insurance? For example that worthless piece of paper that you pay 25.00 for and actually only costs them $2.81 cents? Oh but hey heres a T-shirt? and that my friend is TRUTH!!

Grimmy, this last paragraph is just name-calling. Two years ago, following internal financial scandals, I remarked that I "wouldn't let AAU drive my wheel barrow." I must apologize for that remark. We all need to stick with facts, like you have presented above, like I have also tried to do in by rebuttal information.

Please allow me to encourage and support further discussion and information exchange on this board, sealweenies, wherever. This is important, and we need all the good info we can get.

Thanks! for your time.



<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[thebenchman]

Again agree to disagree. As strong as you feel about USAHIL I feel equally as strong about USARS and AAU. The education about what exactly is the difference between these two must be spoken so that all can see what is happening.

The IOC is talking about dropping SOME sports as it is. As this happens we hope to be first in line by having all of our groundwork set to show we are ready. We all are completely aware this is not smething that will happen overnight. You mention 2020. I think that is was over the top. I honestly can see it happening IF we can communicate and EVERYONE get on the same page and knowing and understanding their roles in the sport. I fell VERY strongly there is a SLIGHT POSSIBILITY for 2008, and if not then 2012. IF you think about it, IOC may want to make this a summer game instead of a winter game. If that is true, 2010!

TO also clarify, I am fully aware that USA Hockey does have the connection for ICE with the Olymipcs. Their knowledge of that high end level of adult hockey is almost unsurpassed. At the same hand their knowledge of inline and growth byt their own hands, is not nearly as good. To merge with other organizations only add those already involved. It growms overall number but doesnt grass root grow the game.

Ok, on the insurance comment, its amazing I actually got a call from an organization after I wrote that. I was shocked. I was not home but I saw it on my caller I.D. It could have been another reason to call but, I dunno. I do know factually the rates of the coverage in these games. YOU may think I was ingling out one tourney about the T shirt. There were no less that 3 organizations doing that. I have first had paid for that silly piece of paper ONLY to find out it was worthless. My own insurance had to pay for the injury, and then their policy did NOT and actually REFUSED to pick up ANY costs involved. It got to a point where I was being taken to court because I was the responsible party in the medical bills. I do understand the art of making money. I do understand the American Way of free enterprize. I think this is an abberation of raising money. It would be viewed with much more integrity should it just be added to the tourney fee. As a former coach I have to pay for these on so many occasions due to the fact players and parents refused, for similar reasons.

SO, I will not back down from the insurance comment. It IS in fact useless. Make money on it? SURE not a problem. BUT it not any worth while insurance. Maybe call it tournament Directors or Office filing fee. Just dont add it AFTER the fact, and assume (yes remember the old addage) we are stupid!

Grimmy

Die hard hockey nut.

[MDE3]

Aside from the race to secour the requisite number of participating countries, which will be of course the first requirement for the Olympic committee to evaluate the sport as a "demonstration" sport, the internal battle for recognition as the official Olympic NGB for the USA, could come down to a legal battle as to whether the sport of inline hockey is more a derivative of the game of ice hockey, or of the old game of "roller hockey".

The old version of Roller Hockey which was held I believe as a demonstration sport for one, or perhaps two, Olympic games, was significantly different from the current game of inline hockey.

It is natural for the "decendants" of the old USAC group to claim that the current game of inline hockey is derived from the sport of "roller hockey"..... read: "round stick/hard ball/played on quads", the one shown as a demonstration sport in the Olympic games, because they (USAC) were probably the first to hold sanctioned events for the sport of inline hockey too.

As the use of inline skates grew and more players began to pick up the sport, the game evolved away from the old plastic Mylec round sticks and playing with a plastic ball, to the use of regular ice hockey sticks, first still with a ball, and then in the mid nineties, with a plastic puck.

As the sport evolved, both the equipment used, and the rules of the game began approaching those of ice hockey. These changes involved the rules, like what kind of stick checking was permitted, the increased use of a puck instead of the traditional ball, the rules governing a puck going out of play, the rules governing the size of nets allowed (this was expanded to include the use of regulation ice hockey nets). The original net sizes for roller/inline hockey were 42" high, x 64" across, versus the ice hockey net size of 48" x 72".

So it certainly seems like there are valid claims to being the "father" of today's game of inline hockey from both camps...although the original concept was developed through the USAC, and I believe Charley Yoder.

It remains to be seen which group will be able to garner the greatest interest internationally, in order to present the best lobby position to the IOC....the issue of who is really responsible for the evolution of the sport, may be secondary to which group can get the most countries to sign on board.

Of course if something could be done to form a new international committee exclusively for inline hockey, which could then include countries from both camps(FIRS + IIHIF), and both sides here in the USA, this all might get accomplished faster......Why worry just about an NGB for the USA..go for the whole ball of wax....a world wide NGB....

[DannyG]

Grimmy, that is a very knowledgeable and thoughtful response containing good information.

I look forward to working with these organizations, and perhaps (probably) yourself as we go down the line in making such a future possible.

Thanks for sharing this stuff with all of us.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[Predators13]

DannyG, I just heard that the only team you have left in your program was your own kids team? Where did all your teams go buddy? Maybe they got tired of drinking the USHIL Kool Aid? Last I check USARS didn't walk away from the sport or maybe I am confused or was it your program that walked away from you? hmmm I get back to on that one.

Well lets hope that USHIL plans are better than that TAG series, wow what a disaster that was.

What will you do when all of inline hockey in El Paso is AAU? Which is probably 95% now? Poor DannyG maybe they will bring up to Colorado Springs since you toot the horn so well. I will send your post over to USARS and USHIL to see how they all feel about it.

[ma9lwr]

Well guy's I think each of you have some good points. I am a old USAC speed skater and HARDBALL player. Yes it was a DEMO Sport.

As for USAHIL, there insurance sucks no doubt. What do you pay for, nothing. AAU/USARS is on the right track. They will make mistakes and they will learn from them. The key is everyone needs to work together for the SPORT. I am not going to get in a bigg argument. But it is nice to see there are some people around who have some knowlege of the sports history. I been in it for 26 years seen many changes, and you guy's are right on track for the most part. If you could get this info out to players and leagues in your area's I beleive you will see some changes. Just like the players, administrators are only as good as their KNOWLEGE.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Danny,

Don't apologize for your posts. I think the discussion is extremely valuable, and I think a lot of people are making good points and interesting arguments for their viewpoints. Anyone who is not interested in the discussion has the option of ignoring it. So, to you, and all the great IHC readers who continue to post, keep up the good work!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[NLane]

Danny, You and Benchman have done a really good job at getting the info out there. Both of you have respected the other's view and have presented great posts. Thank you.

[WelshTimeKeeper]

Greetings fellow inline hockey people.

I've obviously missed the opening shots on this thread, therefore apologies if I've misunderstood the presumed direction of this discussion.

From what is contained in the preceding posts, there appears to be a presumption that inline hockey is in the frame for consideration as an Olympic sport. May I respectfully suggest that at this time such a presumption might be somewhat premature.

As I understand the situation the International Olympic Committee is making enquiries at an international level, concerning the possibility of replacing some sports with other sports. To this end it is reported elsewhere, that the IOC have sent questionnaires to the International Governing Bodies of (I believe) five sports under consideration as potential replacement sports.

It is a matter of public record that FIRS (International Federation of Roller Sports) is one of those international governing bodies. So in this instance 'our sport' is actually "Roller Sports" which includes Artistic & Dance Skating, Speed Skating, Roller (Hardball) Hockey and Inline Hockey.

Therefore it follows that first hurdle to clear is for the IOC to consider Roller Sports as being worthy of replacing an existing Olympic Sport.

The second hurdle is then for FIRS alone, or maybe with others to select which of the roller sports disciplines will be selected. In this context inline hockey is the new boy on the block.

Whilst I am an avid supporter of Inline Hockey, I have considerable reservations that Roller Sports, has the international clout to warrant selection ahead of say golf! I then have further reservations that inline hockey will be selected ahead of any of the other roller disciplines.

Colleagues if I've missed the point of this thread or if information concerning the successful sport is in the public domain your side of the pond which isn't yet in the UK public domain, then please accept my apologies for going off at a tangent and wasting your time.

John.

[CoachFoo]

Predators13
Why so personal with Dan all the time, he kick you out of a league or something?
Chill, the man is passionate about the game. He can disagree with you. No cheap shots needed. Ah.
Why don't you bring on some facts.

[MDE3]

Agreed...documented support of your claims would be really appreciated.....otherwise your opinion could be seen as just so much nasty gas reflecting more on your internal condition than on Danny G.

[royed]

It has been a long time since I posted anything but here it goes...

It seems to me that there is too much focus on who is recognized by the IOC rather than how do we grow the sport.

Realistically, like many have stated, our great sport will have little chance of becoming an olympic sport. Just last Olympics the IOC was considering dropping softball, some wrestling events, an equestrian event and perhaps even baseball. The reason these sports are being looked at is for 2 reasons 1) not enough countries around the world play these sports and can field competitive teams and 2)they bring little financial gain to the IOC.

Lets not be mistaken money is what drives the IOC..will Inline hockey sell out 17,00 seat arenas? Will they convince NBC to throw another 1 billion dollars to the TV contract? Are there enough countries that play this sport to warrant it to be an Olympic Sport? Will the IOC add rollerhockey before they add Golf, Cricket, Rugby, Texas Hold'em(that is a joke). Unfortunately the answer to all of these is No at this time.

So what next??? GROW THE GAME!!!! Educate yourselves on what each NGB is doing to grow the game, play in local leagues not just tournaments, tell a neighbor about the sport and give them one of your spare sticks so they get interested in the sport, stop bashing each other and learn to accept each other's opinion and realize that we just love the game and what to see it grow.

If this sport ever does become an Olympic sport it only will effect 15-20 people across the country. Should that be the focus??? Maybe for some but not in my opinion.

I would pay $100 a year if I knew that the money was going to grow the game not just to run tournaments.

Sincerely,

Roy Edmondson

[Bliz]

Good points royed. I've wondered why such a big deal is made over whether or not inline becomes an Olympic event. It will have no effect on 99.99% of the inline players around the country.
For those who like to argue over the olympics, lets pretend for one moment that inline just became an Olympic event. How has it changed your life with respect to inline?

[DannyG]

given that theoretical, those parents and players who continue to be unaware of collegiate or semi-professional opportunities will at least see that the Olympics are a possibility.

This being the main argument for ice over inline, that pro, college, and olympic possibilities exist for their child, so inline is useless and ice is the way to go. Yeah, never mind the fact that that same 99.9% of youth players will not achieve the pro-college-olympic level anyway.

Maybe I'm actually proving your point, rather than refuting it (which I wasn't trying to do, anyway)

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[MDE3]

Why are Olympics, an NGB, and maybe more importantly, a true Pro league so relevant to the future of the sport?

For one BIG reason....the dreams....without those dreams of glory....the sport begs for indifference.