Idle Speculation..

[MDE3]

What do we know about this new XIHL?

There are three known inline hockey entities involved in it's management..however we also suspect that they do not have the personal financial horsepower to fund this new venture.

There must be a financial investor backing this venture somehow...

For someone to bankroll a new venture like this, they have to have, or have access to some serious cash. As such they are probably not fools.

They also have to be aware that Pro/Elite versions of inline hockey leagues have not yet found a way to make money.

Some basic research would reveal that the only inline hockey venues that make money are the tournament series.

The first "season" of the XIHL is in fact not a season at all, but effectively a series of mini tournaments, labeled a "Festival"

Could this in fact be a way for the new financial backers to test the waters for the valididty of marketing a series of local Pro Tournaments?...Maybe with local TV coverage....read not too expensive to effect....maybe even some prize money at stake down the road?..That would always get the juices flowing a bit more, and make the whole thing more credible to viewers.

If that is indeed the plan, then I take my hat off..makes sense to me....still not sure about the "Extreme" part though.

What I have presented is based on pure speculation, and is in no way to be confused with any official position of the new league. If I am wrong..may those in positions of power simply take it as a suggestion.

[dcdonkey]

I don?t understand why a league of this type particularly needs deep assets. I can only see it costing less than the costs incurred to operate a tournament. It's obvious that the individual teams incur a great majority of the game and league operating costs of these semi-professional leagues. Because these teams don't generally compensate players or staff (or even have crucial staff positions like having different people at ticketing & sales, PR, and advertising), the payroll is essentially being eliminated. This is one reason why AAA is successful and it?s pro counterpart failed. I am still unsure as to what expenses the corporate office(s) of semi-pro leagues sustain other than the obvious office expenditures, limited members of it?s workforce, and other miscellaneous expenses.
Success only implies that the league has been able to continue without dramatic losses.

[MDE3]

Well when you add in the cost of individual travel subsidy for some of the players who are brought in from a distance to play, team bus rentals where required, the cost of uniforms, pucks, the cost of the rink for games and practice, the cost of local promotion, the cost of merchandize which is marketed to a relatively small audience, the cost of three paid officials, the cost of a GM, the cost of the auxilliary staff who works the games..announcer, water boy, coaches, trainer, ticket taker, scoreboard operator, plus the league cost per player, versus the earnings from the gates..it costs some money to some one...Add to this the after game tipples and some meals and hotels for the team on the road..often paid for by the owner, plus the time involved by the owners to help promote and execute, and there is no doubt that there is substantially more money spent than earned unless you are drawing about 400 - 600 paying spectators per game.

I would venture to guess that the best of MLRH probably did not average 150 fans/game, and the average was probably closer to 60 per game. Hence you can understand why many of the owners are looking for a different way of doing things. That being said, I am not sure that changing the name is going to help much at all, unless there is something else up their sleeves to justify this "extreme" affiliation.

Having local television coverage while jointly participating in the advertising sales revenue, as well as sharing the cost of the TV production, is probably the best way to expand the earnings for the teams and the "league". A cash prize tournament venue, maybe with a youth tournament woven among the Pro games could certainly help with marketing to a captive and target audience as well.

[dcdonkey]

This list reports team expenses, not league fixed costs. Therefore, making them optional to any owner. It is apparent to the most basic fan that a player's happiness has a considerable influence on how a player plays and if they're willing to stick around. People in a team?s ownership and GM positions are given the freedom to make these crucial decisions. The league would have nothing to do with any of these team expenses, signifying that these expenditures essentially have no impact on the quantity of assets desired at the league level.

[Rebecca]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

There must be a financial investor backing this venture somehow...

For someone to bankroll a new venture like this, they have to have, or have access to some serious cash. As such they are probably not fools.

They also have to be aware that Pro/Elite versions of inline hockey leagues have not yet found a way to make money.

Some basic research would reveal that the only inline hockey venues that make money are the tournament series.

<hr></blockquote>

I totally hear where you are coming from and I understand your point, however, how important is it really for the first season? Look at ECRHA: ECRHA is no doubtably [is that even a word?]the largest collegiate league in the country and we do not make money. We don't have many fans either [which is a small problem] and what fans we get, we do not charge to enter the door. But we keep growing and growing. We have about 4-5 administrators and a total salary for the entire crew less than $23,000, which comes directly from team fees.

While I do agree that those running MLRH, PIHA, XIHL, XXX, YYY, ZZZ are eventually (if not immediately) hoping to make some money, I am sure they MUST realize that they won't get rich off of the league, and definately won't make a substantial income in the first year (at least).

My point is, you really don't need money to start a league, if you plan on making no money off of it, nor do you need an investor or a money-man backing you. However, you eventually will need to make something in order to keep up the 20-80 hrs of weekly work it requires to continue to run it depending on the level you wish to run it at and your ability to commit to it.

Funny thing is, every year I know that I cannot return to ECRHA and devote the kind of time needed for the peanuts that I get for it, yet I am still here :/

Rebecca

[MDE3]

Well for one thing, not all these "semo pro" teams collect "player fees", as some teams use that as an incentive to draw better players. Secondly, the long term stated goal is to have this operation as a league of paid professionals.

The rinkowners/team owners whether they are the same entity or not, are into this as a business, not just for the glory. They expect at the least for the operation of the team to yield some sort of benefit, whether it means increased participation in their youth programs(read more money generated) through the marketing of their "Pro" team, or direct income from the operation of same, through ticket sales and merchandize sales.

For the long term success of any of these types of operations, a formula must be found that generates more income than it lays out....otherwise there will continue to be the same sort of general owner disgruntlement that has existed in the MLRH....resulting more often than not at fingers being pointed at the league owners/operators for raising false hopes.

Make no mistake...the majority of players are not soley into this league just for the "glory, or "fun of it", but because they hope that down the road, there will be some sort of financial reward coming to them for their dedication to the growth of a true Pro League. While a nagging voice in the back of their heads may be saying "bahh it aint going to happen", the dream is still what drives the majority.

In collegiate hockey, you have volunteers for many of the positions involved, or pay such a low income for those services that it is almost only "a token" wage. Your players participate as much for the love of the sport and to a degree, the glory of playing for their school, even though it is not a "sanctioned sport" but only a club sport.

Additionally I would think that the individual players(collegiate) cover the costs of travel, cover the costs of uniforms, cover the costs of rink time for practice, cover all the costs of equipment, like any other amateur league. Based on a 20 game season, I would imagine the total cost per player to easily exceed $3000 each per season. Hey it costs me that much for equipment and travel for my son per 14 game season where half the costs are subsidized. When you add up all those costs, figure that a semi pro team owner has to cover at least 50% of them, plus the additional responsibilities of paying for a trainer, a coach, maybe a water boy, an announcer, a time keeper, a ticket taker, the three refs, advertizing etc. etc.

It is not a fair comparison to that of operating an amateur "men's league" at the collegiate level. I would venture a guess that most owners of MLRH or any other semi pro team would have to realistically budget, $15,000 to $25,000 per season of operating costs needed to be covered by either ticket sales, advertising sales, direct co sponsorship, merchandize sales etc. etc. The bare minimum costs for floor time, uniforms, and refs would hit $10,000 for a 14 game season, before any other incremental expenses are added.

[MDE3]

The original premise of my specualtion was based on the realistic assumption that most of the Pro and Semi Pro leagues we have seen come and go, did so ultimately because they were not able to be financially self sufficient.

The problem for the league, is that there will not be any team owners if there is not some way for these owners to see they can make a profit. Thus it is encumbant on the league to create an environment where the team owners, and yes the league as well, can generate a profit, or all the unhappiness of the team owners within and with the league will continue.

Hence a league that has some access to financial clout, has a much greater chance of connecting their product to media coverage and major sponsors, and thus potentially greater fan participation and earnings, due to the fact that financial credibility greatly influences product credibility in this world.

[dcdawgs]

I totally agree with you on this issue. Financial credibility greatly influences product creditbility in this world, as we see in a variety of industries.

I personally think that there is little trust between fans and league / team owners when it comes to semi-pro or professional inline hockey leagues. RHI did a lot of damage, as well as the old MLRH pro league, as well as all of these small elite level leagues that say they are the real deal, and then they don't get off the ground. My hat is off to MLRH for having a successful AAA league, and for them to start a new league over in the UK. My hat is off to anyone who has the courage to try to start up a league, its not an easy thing to do.

However, when are we going to see the old days of a successful pro league?

Not enough money is spent on the marketing and advertising for any of these leagues, and so the leagues will not get enough people to come and they will not make a large profit. I think once there is enough media coverage via television or newspapers, we will see something successful brewing. Until then, a semi-pro or pro league will not make a profit.

Josh

[dcdonkey]

RHI and MLRH-Pro did no or little damage at all. It is obvious these two leagues only furthered the sport because they have given us an idea of what we want from a professional or semi-professional league. Otherwise, we would be out in the dark and have no idea what we would like to see and have in a league. Some of the sport's greatest games were featured here (i.e. Orlando Surge vs. Anaheim Bullfrogs championship game). These leagues appealed mostly to people who were somewhat involved in the world of roller hockey (with the exclusion of the Bullfrogs). The people who attended these games were there because they already had some kind of interest in the sport or the end result of the limited amount of marketing. And yes, word of mouth is considered in the marketing category. To analyze it further, it would be considered publicity.