iihf, firs and offside rule

[jhtoh]

Hi. I heard that IIHF will soon no longer do inline hockey and FIRS is going to scrap the offside rule. How true is that?

[DannyG]

at their world committee meetings, IIHF was discussing world championship opportunities for girls, juniors, and Masters/Seniors age groups...would initiating new programs 2-5 years down the road sound like an organization that was disbanding?

There are several environments within the European and South American spheres that the IIHF is not active, just like there are several where FIRS is not around. Within each of these, it might appear that the other is abdicating the process.

I doubt this would be true for either organization...

However, just the fact that in our own country, we have a "national governing body" (USARS, within the FIRS program) that doesn't even run an inline hockey program, would lead you to believe that the struggle for consideration is far from over.

Ain't it great that the AAU has stepped forward to attempt to operate a regional/national version of its tournament series, and has gotten USARS to call them (AAU) "the USARS National Championships..."?!?!?

Even at that, AAU doesn't even have enough regional coverage, that other, for-profit enterprises have allowed AAU to use their regional competitions as the "AAU Qualifier" for the area?!?!?

And this (AAU/USARS) is going to be our "national governing body?????"

Somebody needs to give the Congress of the United States, the IOC and the USOC a kick in the pants, and get the real national organization, USAHIL, to hold the real designation of the NGB.

end of soapbox...and I apologize to all the very good people (many on this message board) who have worked long and hard within the USARS organization for years...but, hey, don't you guys feel sold out?

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[MDE3]

Danny you are always so wishy washy in your views..........

I do feel like USA Roller Sports is out of their depth when the wheels fall inline instead of in parrellel though. They really have a different emphasis than hockey, and I think would be happy to have it go away......if the carrot of some major Olympic recognition would just die out......

The attitude is really "dog in the manger" I feel when there is obviously a qualified alternative available for an NGB. But there is also a lot of suspicion about trusting an ice hockey oriented organization (USA Hockey) with the future of what might be considered a competitive sport(to ice hockey). Even with the more enlightened attitude portrayed in USA Hockey Magazine recently, I think many are still circumspect about handing over the reins.

I think that if USA Hockey Inline has an independant board of directors from USA Hockey maybe chosen from various commercial interests(including a representative of a rink owners association, maybe someone from CRHL or it's future derivative...) within Inline Hockey and retains only a dotted line relationship with them, that many would feel more comfortable ceeding complete authority to this group.

[DannyG]

I agree with Mike 100%.

...and the good news is, I am not sure but that the USAHIL is pretty much as independent as you might want already from their parent organization:

1. The staff is first-rate, from Delvechio on down, and you have been working with a stable group of people for years. Contrast USARS with no real inline hockey staff at all, let alone any stability of personnel.

2. USAHIL continues to demonstrate a defined progression in its development of programs...more, and better, every year. I won't go into a listing here, but there is even more planned for next year. Let's just say that USAHIL presently has triple the opportunities that USARS has ever had.

3. USAHIL has continued to hold to a competitive level for the recreation player/team/league to participate in at the regional and national level. Everything fair and equal for all comers. It's inclusion of second division national level competition this year was a tremendous opportunity for kids that got to play in a legitimate national competition for the first time ever. When USAHIL also goes to an "open" division (akin to the NARCh Platinum), in addition to its Stars and Stripes division for league teams, there won't be an organization in the world that will be able to touch this.

5. Coaching, teaching skills, regional/national competition, youth, junior, adult programs, truly open national team program, now down through 12 year olds, IIHF World championships...nobody (especially USARS/AAU) even comes close.

6. Frankly, for all of NARCh's 300+ teams at their nationals, how many teams do you really get to play vs...you still only get a few 40 minute games for your entry fee...and you hope and pray you are their for whenever you are told to take the floor. Each of our seven teams at this year's USAHIL youth nats got 5-6 games, each game a full hour slot (about 50 minutes of actual playing time, 2-15 minute, stop-time halves). Never had a better tournament. A Skills Contest that actually meant something, and you even had to earn your way into it.

We applaud the competitive level at NARCh, we are grateful for the regional offerings of ECHO, TORHS, Atlantic Cup, SixPac-USA, and all the others, for the opportunities they provide.

-BUT-

the organization that is almost singlehandley developing the sport in our country is USA Hockey Inline..period.

Isn't that the very definition of what the NGB should be????

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[TimeKeeper_CYMRU]

Ummmmm? What can one say!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

and FIRS is going to scrap the offside rule. How true is that?

<hr></blockquote>

Since when have FIRS had an offside rule to scrap.

Surely the original message is a wind-up!

Here follows the text of 'Rule One (b)' from the FIRS/CIRILH (COMMITTEE INTERNATIONAL ROLLER IN-LINE HOCKEY) Rules of the Game (Version 2001)

RULE ONE - RINK
(b) The rink shall be marked according to the diagram included with these rules taking into consideration the exact dimensions indicated herein. There are no playing surface zone markings needed, such as blue or red lines, because in roller in line hockey the entire floor is in play for either team, without threat of face-offs for off-side incursions.

<font color=red>Perhaps the author of the original message would like to clarify his credentials.</font color=red>

<font color=blue>John
Wales, Great Britain</font color=blue>

[Alexander]

For what it's worth, from a Canadian perspective I completely agree with you Danny. I've been very impressed with the USA Hockey InLine (USAHIL) development programs etc. from what I've seen. And you are dead on about the staff being first rate. Last year Dan B. came to Calgary for the Alberta Regional Inline Hockey Championships to make a presentation at a coaching seminar. And Aaron K is very good about answering requests, etc.

Unfortunately in Canada we also see a fragmentation of the sport because we have two national organizations rather than one.

Hockey Alberta In Line (HAIL), which is one the members of the National Inline Hockey Association-Canada (NIHAC) is also endeavoring to develop the sport in Alberta through its various programs for players, coaches and officials (see June 2003 post to this message board). This includes Team Alberta's participation in the USAHIL National Junior Festival for the last two years. HAIL has joined with Manitoba InLine Hockey who have similar goals regarding development of the sport to form NIHAC. Leagues in southern British Columbia have also come on board now.

Marty in Alberta

[patrick14]

Hi Danny and Mike,

Glad to see a handful of interesting points brought out on the topic of NGB's. I have a couple of questions/points for you informed readers.

-Is is just the AAU representatives blowing smoke or is it true that while USAHIL has done alot to develop inline hockey, more and more facilities are switching to AAU for a better (read cheaper w/ more coverage) insurance plan, because USAHIL has offered them nothing development wise, which is the same as they may get from AAU?

-Will it really be a step forward when USAHIL creates an 'open division'? Or is this just another money maker like NARCH/TORHS who conintually tighten up their budgets (example: 45 minute time slots vs. USAHIL hour timeslots, platinum, gold and NOW silver...sound anything like stars-n-stipes. Gee, what kid doesn't go to nationals...Just kidding. It's a great oppurtunity for many kids, but the line will have to be drawn somewhere.

Of course, maybe this will allow the regionaly and locally developed grassroots programs to see just what 'travel' inline hockey looks like, and adjust their hockey & programs accordingly. It'd be nice to see a program that does the real work (grassroots) produce some of the better inline hockey. Granted they have a lot working against them, but I hate to see all of our players money pumped into the pockets of NARCH/TORHS and get little in return. (Save the possibility of 'the NARCH PRO league' coming to life)


-Is USAHIL really a seperate entity from USA HocKey. Isn't this what is held/holds them back from being recognized as the NGB of roller to the USOC? Because USAHOCKEY was already the NGB for ice hockey.

Lastly, I'd like to thank jhtoh, for asking an off the wall question or horribly misinterpreting some piece of information and getting a decent thread as a result.

To continue this tradition... I'd like to point you to:
http://puckhandlers.com/iihl/index.htm

This first quote is AWESOME, and I believe it 100%, because I've seen first hand how hard nike is trying to get a hold of our sport...
&quot; Nike Sporting Manufactures recently predicted Inline Hockey to be the world?s largest sport by the year 2006; presently the biggest is Soccer. Nike believed so strongly in this prediction that it has since begun manufacturing it?s own range of Inline Hockey equipment. &quot;

But I'd like to know what CRACKHEAD came up with this...
&quot; In America there is 2 million Inline Hockey Players a fair achievement for 12 years. American Inline Hockey College games are so popular that they can receive up to 70,000 spectators for a single game. &quot;


While it's true, there are WELL OVER 2 million inline hockey players in the US...there certainly is no way that any college roller hockey game ever drew 70,000.

THe RHI attendance record was probably close to 15,000 in Anaheim.
And most people outside of college roller hockey itself, have no idea it even exists.

Sad, true, and changing... hopefully sooner than later.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by patrick14 on 08/24/03 11:50 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[MDE3]

Well I have not been directly involved with AAU in the past year while Danny has reason to interact with both AAU and USAHIL and so would be more informed about the comparison of the two programs. I do not see anything quite like the USAHIL 18 under/ 14 under development programs at AAU, nor is the coaching materials and guidance available from USAHIL matched by anyone else. If you look at their website I think there is a good indication of how they are trying to grow the &quot;grassroots programs&quot;

As far as the division of power between USA Hockey and USAHIL at the directors level, I think a formal statement should be elicited from those involved, because I find nothing on their official site which would support one position or the other.

There is a definite void in this sport at &quot;interclub level&quot; and a true need for regional league play instead of tournament formats only. This is largely due to the lack of an NGB to get control of this level of play development.

Interesting site ....... 70,000 fans??? maybe for the total attendance of all the games..... replace soccer by 2006 .... hmmm well a positive attitude is important.

[speedfreak2003]

I dont think the IIHF will be giving up Inline anytime soon, its gotten too big for them just to let it go. It would however be nice to have it as a seprate body and not ruled by your local Ice hockey crowd. where i come from the Ice hockey assocation governs the Inline which shouldnt be because it dosent develop enough when you have people trying to run both at the same time.

[DannyG]

good questions, some thoughts...

...is it true that more facilities are switching to AAU?

No, it isn't true...there is, however, an expansion/contraction mechanism built into the system when competing organizations exist. There are groups jumping their allegiance back and forth all the time. Don't let any organization fool you by reporting its gains to the world while ignoring its losses...everybody has both. (We note that USAHIL doesn't make any such claims)

...Gee, what kid doesn't go to nationals...Just kidding.

-what if...we had five different divisions in every age group...the fact that my kid's team can play vs. teams from five other states is the major benefit of the 'national' setting tournament. A championship this year in division 4 is followed by hard work (that program improvement you mentioned) to make it into the more competitive division 3 next year...the local program might never be competitive enough to make it all the way to division 1 or 2, but that's okay...I just can't find anything wrong with the multi-divisional set up...I played as a kid in the neighborhood of backyard rinks, where your skill could move you up into the game on the more competitive rink, and it was a badge of distinction to be the only nine year old on the rink with all the 11-12 year olds...then Cheryl Miller kicked my butt all over the ice for months...and I really liked her...the point is, the kid gets a fair perspective on one's place in life, as well as in the game...it's a good thing.

...It'd be nice to see a program that does the real work...

-I take it by this you feel taking a given group of players and actually developing them as individuals and as a team is a good thing, compared to just widening the recruiting circle for a better group of hot shots? As long as the format is the same for everybody, the multi-divisional tournament allows for all of these teams to play, each at their own level, eh? Wouldn't that be the point of the thing???

I don't think Pele in '77 brought 70,000 people to an NASL game...

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[NLane]

Nike- Just show me the money!! We need a decent sport court rink built here. Shoot, we'd even allow a separate rink for indoor soccer. So bring it on, Nike!!!

[MDE3]

Hey - where are you located? There's a rink just north of Hagerstown Maryland in a tiny little town of Waynesboro, that was built as an Olympic size ice hockey rink(220' x 105') and guess what....... It failed. But this was a great facility with decent stand space - maybe 300 seated. Built around 1997, it only stayed open for about 4 years before going into Bankrupcy. It was just sold to two local businessmen in the area foe $400,000, and thei ice making equipment was already moved out. They were dubious about being able to return it to an ice rink........

The problem is of course that there is not much population in the immediate visinity, although Chambersburg is only about 15 minutes away as is Hagerstown. There are no
Sport Court facilities in any direction for at least 50 miles. Of course a floor would be needed, and the rink area could be reduced to allow for even more fan space.....

But at the right price.......

[NLane]

Mike, We're in Va Beach, VA. We travelled to Williamsburg to play for the last 2 years. Enough of the travelling!!!I was just commenting that talk was cheap. Nike needs to commit, dog gone it!!

[MDE3]

OOps......I was hoping maybe you were going south not coming North LOL

[NLane]

I hope MLRH can go more South than us. I do have to say that the Williamsburg trip was very much worth the drive. Ben made the playing experience as stress free as possible the likes these players had NEVER known. And a National Championship to boot!