players point of view?

[growl89]

we have heard what the owners and fans have to say but what do the players think about this whole new league situation?

Here is my 2 cents...

As a player, I just want to play, which is why I will be playing next year regardless of what league it will be in. Does piha have problems, yes, more and more every season it seems, but will this new league be able to fix these issues? Maybe, maybe not. They have a great idea about owners running the league, which is what should happen at this point, but that's not really a players issue. What I'm wondering is is this new league going to help the exposure of the teams, league and sport? Because if not then I dont see a point. If we the players are going to play in empty arenas, with no exposure, and sub par officiating, then why break apart piha? Now if there are answers to this in the new league then great, if not, then why start another league? Myself like 99% of the players at the eastern finals were disgusted with the thing. So looking into this new league was inevitable for a lot of us.

I guess I'm hoping that everyone chooses one or the other. If the growl and blaze were in two different leagues, wouldn't they feel slighted by not playing each other ever? Doesn't that ultimately hurt teams and fans by not playing against some of the better teams around? Most of the players I know from at least 10 teams agree that its a joke playing 24 minute games twice a week, no one is happy with officiating, marketing, professionalism etc. Yet you see us show up every weekend and play. Just remember if we didn't show up the league would never happen. And I think that gets lost with league and team owners. You need to take care of the consumers to keep selling the product. This year slighted a lot of people and culminated with players from all over being flown in on money spent by players, now our team had a sponsor but if we didnt I wouldn't up in arms about paying for other players to scrimmage.

The point of this rant is just to let the owners know that even though we dont have a say, we are what make the league run, so if its new league then fine, just make sure the players are dont get the shaft again like the xihl fiasco.


Other thoughts?

[CUDangled]

Personally, I would rather see a group of people make an effort to re-tool PIHA than to start from scratch. Seems more logical to me.

Why re-invent the wheel when all you need to do is make some design improvements.

Continous improvement...that's all.

[iwearstripes]

Personally, I would rather see a group of people make an effort to re-tool PIHA than to start from scratch. Seems more logical to me.

Why re-invent the wheel when all you need to do is make some design improvements.

Continous improvement...that's all.
Essentially, this is re-tooling PIHA. Let's not pretend this is going to be a clean slate venture radically changing the quasai-professional inline hockey world as we know it... its going to be many (most?) of the same teams/owners/players, with new leadership.

When NCRHA was formed and CRHL went under, a "new" league was formed, but let's be realistic, most of the players hardly noticed the difference, aside from a few people, it was the same league, heading in a new direction, with new people in charge.

[CUDangled]

True, but will ALL the PIHA teams jump ship? If I remember correctly, your college analogy, although similar, involved all the teams moving at once.

Will the same happen to PIHA?

If not, wouldn't it make more sense to approach PIHA and say "You are going to lose 75% of your teams next season. Rather than having all the start costs of starting a new league, we would like to propose to buy you out"?

This sort of take-over happens all the time in the corporate world. If you are a big corporation and you like/dis-like what another company is doing, rather than starting up a new business that is a direct competitor, you just buy them out. Many times, in the long run, it is cheaper/safer that way.

[iwearstripes]

True, but will ALL the PIHA teams jump ship? If I remember correctly, your college analogy, although similar, involved all the teams moving at once.

Will the same happen to PIHA?

If not, wouldn't it make more sense to approach PIHA and say "You are going to lose 75% of your teams next season. Rather than having all the start costs of starting a new league, we would like to propose to buy you out"?

This sort of take-over happens all the time in the corporate world. If you are a big corporation and you like/dis-like what another company is doing, rather than starting up a new business that is a direct competitor, you just buy them out. Many times, in the long run, it is cheaper/safer that way.
When NCRHA took over, a couple regions held out, but in the end, everyone ended up at NCRHA, because it was pointless to play in a national league that only represents 3 regions of the country. At some point, the organization with the bigger following is going to win, and teams are either going to go with it, or fold.

If PIHA ends up going under, I'll be disappointed, because I really had alot of fun refereeing PIHA (most of the time). I truly hope, that whatever happens, it doesn't result in the collapse of the "professional" game entirely.

[Berry_Bramble]

If not, wouldn't it make more sense to approach PIHA and say "You are going to lose 75% of your teams next season. Rather than having all the start costs of starting a new league, we would like to propose to buy you out"?



I think they skipped that step.

[PGHhockey]

If not, wouldn't it make more sense to approach PIHA and say "You are going to lose 75% of your teams next season. Rather than having all the start costs of starting a new league, we would like to propose to buy you out"?

This sort of take-over happens all the time in the corporate world. If you are a big corporation and you like/dis-like what another company is doing, rather than starting up a new business that is a direct competitor, you just buy them out. Many times, in the long run, it is cheaper/safer that way.

Typically, a corporate buyout/takeover involves (primarily) a sale of the company's assets.

What assets does PIHA have? A customer base. AIHL is most likely banking on the thought that they don't need to spend much money in acquiring a portion of PIHA's customer base.

I can speak from experience here, as the former buyer and seller of an outdoor rink and business. I bought my old rink as it was on the verge of being torn down, did my best to build it back up, had a lot of fun, lost a ton of money, and learned a lot of business/hockey lessons. Then I at least had the good sense to sell it before the city (who owned the actual property, whereas I just owned the rink and pro shop) decided to evict the next owner, compensate loss, and tore it down anyway. That's a great story that maybe I'll share another day...

But regardless, I bought assets. While a customer base is an asset (of intangible value), I don't think PIHA had a ton in accounts receivable to buy. No real estate. No intellectual property. Nothing. AIHL would have essentially given PIHA ownership money in exchange for not having a league to compete with.

While the AIHL may be a "new league", it is essentially building off the PIHA concept with (I assume) many of its former customers.

[RichardGraham]

Hi growl89 and thread respondents.

This is an excellent topic, and I commend growl89 for the idea, and the rest of the posters (so far) who show reason and thoughtfulness rather than passionate name calling and potential libel. I hope those posting follow-ups will continue to match the level of quality shown thus far...

[Lindro17]

I will put my 2 cents in. This could be the worst thing that could happen to the sport, or the best thing. From what I am hearing, there are a bunch of teams that are staying with PIHA regardless of what happens. If there is a new league, you have a division of the sport, the WORST thing that could happen to this sport, especially when we are in a time of trying to market it. We will have two brands, creating a bunch of confusion. I don't have a preference of which league to be in, and would say if the majority goes to one, the minority follow, for the better of the sport.

If a change needs to be made, and the majority of the teams are moving, then we should all move. If the majority of the teams are staying, we all should stay. This has to be an all or none in an effort to promote this sport to what many of us have seen as potential.

There have been a lot of disconcerning events that have happened this year with this league, trust me we were at the forefront of a lot of them, but can these be fixed internally or do we have to move? Are these the league's fault or are these instances that fall on an organization? I am sure a lot of us don't know the answer to that.

[GR8SK8r06]

I know that none of the teams in the RMD are moving...... to be honest none of the players even know of the AIHL because only one or two players come on this site. It should be a much smoother season now they have learned some hard lessons. What happens to the AIHL if they only have 5 teams that live 500 miles apart each? Are they counting on this site to launch this league? It seems to me this is all East coast and nothing else! Good post and good points GROWL89!

[alex]

From a player's point of view, I want to play the best teams and the best players in the most well-organized league. Not sure all those will be a possibility to get in one league next season.

[alex]

Just saw the AIHL website for the first time. It lists 3 "players benefits" for playing this league. This is the way I look at them, from a player's POV...

1) "Players will compete against the best inline hockey players across the United States."

Unlikely. Certainly not in the first season. We already know the Rocky Mountain division won't be defecting to the AIHL. There's some of the country's best talent there not playing AIHL. Not to mention any other teams, who knows how many there are, who might stay with PIHA.

2) "To play for a true National Championship declared by the National Governing body of Inline Hockey, USA Roller Sports."

We won PIHA this season and it would have meant absolutely nothing to us to have it be declared the national championship by USARS. Nothing at all.

3) "The League's top players in the Elite Major Division will receive an invitation to the USARS Team USA Tryouts at the end of the season"

How much of a benefit is that really? That applies only to the top tier of players in the game, and how many of those players are really having trouble getting an invite to Team USA tryouts, if they even want one?

[quick_dry]

Personally, I would rather see a group of people make an effort to re-tool PIHA than to start from scratch. Seems more logical to me.

Why re-invent the wheel when all you need to do is make some design improvements.
because PIHA isn't run by committee, you can't re-tool it, only the private owner can - and if you do re-tool it, when time comes to change things again, you still have the problem that the PIHA owner can simply say "no, I don't want to do it that way" and that is that.

The biggest benefit I can see to the AIHL, is the teams have a hand in their own destiny. From the sounds of it, it is PIHA but one where the teams can make decisions, not just be told what is happening. AIHL doesn't sound very revolutionary to me, it just sounds like the model for pretty much any other league or sport association.

I'd also think that players can have a direct hand in how their league is run. Like most other sports, where teams are not owned, but are an association and representatives to league committees are elected.

[growl89]

alex, very good points... My point is like everyone I'm sure, I want to play wherever everyone else is. Whether it be piha, aihl, arha, the league with the buses, mrlh etc. What's worse... Having one league with problems that may or may not be fixed, or two leagues with problems trying to compete with each other. I was a member of the nj werewolves xihl championship team. In hindsight outside of our team it means nothing. Winning piha twce holds a little more weight because its established. Hopefully all teams stay together one league or another...

[alex]

alex, very good points... My point is like everyone I'm sure, I want to play wherever everyone else is. Whether it be piha, aihl, arha, the league with the buses, mrlh etc. What's worse... Having one league with problems that may or may not be fixed, or two leagues with problems trying to compete with each other. I was a member of the nj werewolves xihl championship team. In hindsight outside of our team it means nothing. Winning piha twce holds a little more weight because its established. Hopefully all teams stay together one league or another...

Your last point about legitimacy is definitely important. For a player, it'll certainly be less full-filling to win the AIHL next season knowing you didn't have to go through some great teams who stayed in PIHA (again Col. Springs Thunder comes to mind as a powerhouse staying in PIHA plus any other top teams who end up staying). Same thing for winning PIHA next season, if many of the big competitors went to AIHL, it'll less of an accomplishment to have won the league.

Maybe, the winners of each league could arrange a series to determine a true national champ? Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself now...

[Tekkaman]

From what i've been reading this past week, I think owners should give Piha another shot and see if things get better. I don't believe AIHL will be much of an impact, other than hurt the talent pool. I believe AIHL would make a great Junior league someday(16yo-21yo) and Piha being the main top level league. That's if everyone sticks together and work through these hard times, to make this sport were it should be one day.

[joisyan]

you know what i like best about this topic of conversation? the fact that it is a topic of conversation. some may say that having multiple leagues is bad. but hell, look how long it took to get a single league going. i love diversity. because what's to stop anyone from playing both leagues? PIHA allows you to create your own schedule (to the best of their ability). so why not make a bunch of weekends with two games in a row? or friday, saturday, sunday games for anyone crazy enough to do it. to have more games the next week in another league? hell i'd play on as many teams as i can because i love hockey so much.

plus the other thing i like about it is the marketing advantage. yea i said it, it's an advantage to have multiple leagues. most people dont even know there's any ONE inline hockey league out there. so if there's multiple leagues, they may sit and think...hell...inline hockey must be on the up and up if they have to split up the U.S. to make room for the teams!

so from a player's stand point. i'm extremely happy to see more and more people getting off their butts to get something going for our sport.

someone said you cant reinvent the wheel, very true. however, nothing's ever perfect the first time around?

[Leaferguy]

I'm sorry if this was addressed, but I'm assuming there will be restrictions from letting players double dip into both leagues, correct?

As someone who geographically can't play next year (let's leave lack of skill out of this), I see this as a positive in the long term and a tough road in the next few years.

Regardless of the final outcome, short-term competition is good for improving the structure of the leagues. I don't think, however, that it's good for the players or necessarily the sport, especially if PIHA and AIHL are competing for years, as it creates a dispersion of talent and weakens the concept of a "pro" league.

The biggest issue I can see as a player is consistency. Consistency of officiating, rinks, parity, scheduling, and presentation. If the creation of the AIHL helps to foster more high-quality consistency in either league, the game will be better for the wear. If this becomes a bitter battle in which the focus becomes simply beating the other league, the game will flounder and suffer. The sport isn't going to get better by having two leagues directly battling each other, but rather by improving on themselves and starting to really legitimize what so many people are working towards.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Brennan,

Wouldn't it be easier if we could just find a billionaire and convince him to create a pro inline hockey league? ;)

We've got the players, coaches, administrators, established rules, venues... the main issue seems to be money.

Warren Buffett -- do something for the underemployed of America!

[GROWL]

Personally, I would rather see a group of people make an effort to re-tool PIHA than to start from scratch. Seems more logical to me.

Why re-invent the wheel when all you need to do is make some design improvements.

Continous improvement...that's all.

Will the same happen to PIHA?

If not, wouldn't it make more sense to approach PIHA and say "You are going to lose 75% of your teams next season. Rather than having all the start costs of starting a new league, we would like to propose to buy you out"?

I think they skipped that step.

The owners have all spent the majority of the past season trying to get this accomplished. The PIHA was not willing to work with the owners when this topic was raised. It was told to us with no exception that the PIHA was their league, that they alone would make decisions, and that it would always be that way.

[MrCanada]

This is all very nice but like the post subject is suggesting, this is for players point of view, so why ownsers and managers are still writing in here?

Anyway, bye-bye PIHA, welcome AiHL. Time will tell, the grass seems greener and the sky cloudless. Can't wait for the next real season of pro-roller hockey.

Have a greats summer guys!

[alex]

From a player's point of view, officiating seemed to be an issue throughout the league last year...how will this be affected by AIHL? Do they have new refs they're ready to release next season? If not, I don't see how a new league will improve the officiating aspect of the problem. Still going to be the same pool of referees being used.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

From a player's point of view, officiating seemed to be an issue throughout the league last year...how will this be affected by AIHL? Do they have new refs they're ready to release next season? If not, I don't see how a new league will improve the officiating aspect of the problem. Still going to be the same pool of referees being used.

Alex I can tell you that the owners plan on addressing the officiating with a lot of care. It was an issue but it is intended to be fixed!

[ohno]

Jeff,

I'm curious, from an owners perspective, why do you think there was such an issue with officiating this year? Your home games aside, because you had the luxury of using ECRHA officials most of the year. Brilliant scheduling! Kudos to you!

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

Jeff,

I'm curious, from an owners perspective, why do you think there was such an issue with officiating this year? Your home games aside, because you had the luxury of using ECRHA officials most of the year. Brilliant scheduling! Kudos to you!

Nothing personal but I will not comment on issues relating on a public level. Yes people had issues as did I at times but I don't feel the need to air dirty laundry when we are in the process of getting involved in what I believe to be a phenominal league before we even play our first games.

This is also not an attack but if I were to respond and explain you my thoughts I would like to know the name of the person who I am speaking to at the least.

[Puckdropper1]

So I guess I am out of JOB.....lol

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

So I guess I am out of JOB.....lol

Hmm time for a famous quote!

I am job!

[Berry_Bramble]

Can we get a coaches point of few thread...I stink as a player so I coach.......nothing?

[scotty b]

I am also on the side that believes the sport will suffer from having two leagues. I have a hard time believing that if the owners went to PiHA and asked for changes that they wouldnt even listen. The players are the only ones who really get hurt from 2 leagues. As stated already the validity of the league drops when there are more than one champ. Of course there was going to be growing pains when you triple in size in 3 years but it seems like people took it really personal and want to start a league becuase of a few mistakes. The bottom line is that you will never get all the teams to go one way or the other until one folds, and until then it is the player who pays the price. I play in the Rocky Mtn Division and from what I read on here sounds like we will be in PIha as the only western division. I was hoping that this next season we could take a trip down to AZ and try and play all the teams in one weekend. Out of division style, although now I can see that will never happen. And its to late and im bummed. Although as stated before as long as i get to play. Its all good in the hood!