University of California - Irvine

[InlineMBA]

Just looking at the stats, I have to say that I'm impressed.

http://www.ncrha.org/team.php?team_id=52145&area=stats

According to the NCRHA stats page, UC - Irvine only had 3 guys that played all 18 games during the regular season (not including the goalie). They had 3 other players that played 15, 14 & 13 games respectively.

If my logic is correct, there must have been games when they played with only 5, maybe only 4, skaters.

That only makes their 17-1 regular season record all the more impressive.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[JBeck10]

it is somewhat impressive, but you do have to wonder how far they can go with a roster that short against the deeper teams.

[JBeck10]

....and by that i mean the deeper teams at nationals, but I'd love to see Middleton play and see if he lives up to this hype.

[FatAndSlow]

it is somewhat impressive, but you do have to wonder how far they can go with a roster that short against the deeper teams.

I wonder that myself. How many games does each team play/day in pool play at Nationals? If it's more than 3 I think UCI could be in trouble. This is Nationals so UCI cannot realistically expect to mercy anyone. Either way, I hope UCI wins Nationals. Go Anteaters!!!

[osu_buckeyes]

In pool play you won't play many per day, probably 2 one day and 1 game the other day. But once the playoff start you could potentially have 2 or 3 a day.

[sanford]

they had like 4 or 5 guys at the last nats that i went to.(north carolina) from what i remember middleton was pretty automatic. dont expect to see dazzling moves, but the kid can put the puck in the net. i remember him using the defensemen as a screen.

[BerdooHockey]

Charlie is a pretty good player, he reminds me of old school Robbie Howard for CSUSB.


-Not fast
-Not flashy
-Not beastly strong

-Can shoot,hard,accurate,quick release
-Can Pass
-Is smart with the puck
-Has support from fast and flashy teammates


I'd have him on my team

[wednthavddr]

at nationals in NC i think UCI lost to Michigan St in the round robin 8-7. I think middleton had 7 goals. NASTY!

Also when he is on the power play he sniped pretty hardcore. The man is the definition of sniper

[BerdooHockey]

he's pretty good. no lies

[afreck]

charlie is the man. Everyone else better watch out at nationals. UCI is taking names and shooting for the win.

[InlineMBA]

The ISCA Grizzlies Junior team played the Revision Mission Militia 2 times at NARCh W.C. Winternationals this year, and I got to watch the Revision Mission Militia play NARCh Pro too.

Charlie Middleton is the real deal. IMO, he ranks up there with the select few whom are the best in the 1986 age group.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[RustyPipes27]

Everyone else better watch out at nationals. UCI is taking names and shooting for the win.

Aren't all the teams that are going to Nationals shooting for the win?

[AlanMacMillan]

at nationals in NC i think UCI lost to Michigan St in the round robin 8-7. I think middleton had 7 goals. NASTY!


http://www.ncrha.org/game.php?game_id=65974

I was coaching MSU in that game.
He's credited with 2 goals in a 9-8 loss. UCI had 8 goals on 13 shots. Your first thought might be "Hey...those stats don't seem right..." Um, they kind of are. UCI scored on everything.

No doubt he's a good player. To me, there's something about putting up 6 goal games in a 10 goal mercy playing on a team with only 4 skaters that's slightly less facinating.

Most teams get up by a few and empty the bench (even rest top guys). UCI doesn't/can't do that.

I think it's a waste of time and money to send a team to NCT with so few skaters. 4 man teams should be playing in parking lots, not in college roller hockey.

With the number of injuries that have happened at NCT, showing up with less than 9 or 10 skaters and 2 goalies is foolish. And it looks like a gong-show to anybody who watches a team play with one or two guys on the bench.


ehh...

Al


P.S. I refuse to call it CRHC XQ$@9. It's NCT.
Instead of March Madness/Frozen Four/etc... I'm suggesting NCRHA-phelia. ;)

[ISFN]

[Please No offense to any player or team]

Now I don't know Middleton personally but by his numbers I'm sure he's a gifted player but to me you have to put strength of region into play when comparing players(All-Star Selections)

Take Brandon Barnette, played a couple years in the West where he dominated and I'm sure played against all the same teams Middelton played against, now plays for LU and though still dominating has no where near the pts. he was putting up in the west.
Games/G/A/Pts
2005-2006 DIII RVRSD 17 55 36 91 (WCRHL)
2007-2008 DI LIND 17 31 25 56 (Great Plains)

Now I'm not doubting this kid isn't great but just by comparing numbers he's no better than alot of the players from the top teams in the Great Plains region.

[I mention GP only because thats what I follow and played in]

[jsp047]

http://www.ncrha.org/game.php?game_id=65974
No doubt he's a good player. To me, there's something about putting up 6 goal games in a 10 goal mercy playing on a team with only 4 skaters that's slightly less facinating.
;)
There are not many people I know who would have the energy to finish a NCRHA 3 period stopped time game without being able to take a rest, let alone put up 6 goal games without any subs. Having four skaters was not an ideal situation, but you have to play with the team that gives you the best chance to win games. Unfortunately that year we didn't have more than four guys at our school who play roller hockey at a NCRHA level to bring to nationals. We did play you guys to a 1 goal game which i think is definitely an accomplishment as you were a very good team with a full bench.

[alex]

Maybe it looks silly to have so few players, but if the team was good enough with 4 skaters to play the eventual runners-up (with 12 skaters) to a 1 goal game then it's certainly not a waste of time/money for the team to go.

[alex]

Now I'm not doubting this kid isn't great but just by comparing numbers he's no better than alot of the players from the top teams in the Great Plains region.


Good point, but take nationals into consideration. Not playing against WCRHL teams anymore and, as a sophomore, Middleton put up more goals in 3 games than any other DI player, some of whom played 7 games.

http://www.ncrha.org/schedule.php?&event_id=524&playoff_id=101&area=statistics

[highmcfly]

http://www.ncrha.org/game.php?game_id=65974

I was coaching MSU in that game.
He's credited with 2 goals in a 9-8 loss. UCI had 8 goals on 13 shots. Your first thought might be "Hey...those stats don't seem right..." Um, they kind of are. UCI scored on everything.

No doubt he's a good player. To me, there's something about putting up 6 goal games in a 10 goal mercy playing on a team with only 4 skaters that's slightly less facinating.

Most teams get up by a few and empty the bench (even rest top guys). UCI doesn't/can't do that.

I think it's a waste of time and money to send a team to NCT with so few skaters. 4 man teams should be playing in parking lots, not in college roller hockey.

With the number of injuries that have happened at NCT, showing up with less than 9 or 10 skaters and 2 goalies is foolish. And it looks like a gong-show to anybody who watches a team play with one or two guys on the bench.


ehh...

Al


P.S. I refuse to call it CRHC XQ$@9. It's NCT.
Instead of March Madness/Frozen Four/etc... I'm suggesting NCRHA-phelia. ;)

Skating with 4 or 5 guys might be a "gong-show" but losing to the team with 4 or 5 skaters is definitely a gong show -- which happened 17 or so times this season.

I have seen them play, and they have developed a style suitable for skating with 4 or 5. They manage to keep the games exciting, even with 4 or 5 guys.

But to say they are a "waste of time and money" is just ignorant in my eyes. Why send a team like Long Beach State over UCI because they have a deeper bench? UCI still beat LBS 3 times this season, including the Western regional championships, which was definitely a LBS "gong show" (scoring their only two goals at the end of the third when the game was all but over).

And I don't know how often you play 3 complete games in an afternoon, but it is harder than it looks. Putting up stats like Middleton does is completely ridiculous no matter how many skaters there are. But check the box scores for the games with few skaters, the team gets tired and scores less goals near the end. Remember, you are arguing that it is a disadvantage to have less skaters,not only for the team, but for the tired players -- so Middleton's stats are definitely impressive.

I'm excited to see what they, and the other WCRHL teams can do in Colorado.

[jsp047]

And it looks like a gong-show to anybody who watches a team play with one or two guys on the bench.


we actually took this into consideration in NC....which is why we actually had a gong on the bench. Our one fatal error........................there was no one on the bench to ring it.

[Out West]

Middleton can score, but to say he is a complete player is a stretch. He doesn't skate more than one third of the floor and is not that good a skater when he does skate. He has a compliment of players with him who dig out the puck and do all the hard work. He also has Tash who opens the lanes for him. Actually Burrows of Lng Beach is a more complete player who actually skates and backchecks and creates on his own. He may not have as many points, but he is not out there for the entire game and plays both ways, a novel concept!

[William Bourque]

we actually took this into consideration in NC....which is why we had a little gong on the bench. Our one fatal error.....there was no one on the bench to ring it.

I'm willing to fill that role if necessary. We can talk about the compensation that i would receive later.

[burrows00]

burrows....stop messing around....we all know thats you, the whole "out west" thing isn't fooling anyone. But if really it isn't you, then "out west" are you serious? Could you jock someone any harder?

yeah im pretty sure "out west" isnt me. and i have skated with barnette and seen a lot of the other top players in the nation and i have to say that charlie is definitely the best player in the nation

[feedmetherock]

I think that everyone will get to find out in Colorado who the best player(s) will be. Speaking of Colorado, does anyone know when pools will be announced?

[rh9]

yeah im pretty sure "out west" isnt me
haha yeah, I had a good feeling it wasn't you...just wasnt sure why outwest would like you so much. But that beeing said, I've seen you play before and you can definitely bury

[swisspongesd]

I play D at UCI and I must say Burrows is an awesome player and so is Charlie. Burrows and Charlie are both amazing players in there own ways. Both adopt to there team style and needs. They would be awesome on the same line. Burrows you should transfer to UCI...jking

[BerdooHockey]

yeah im pretty sure "out west" isnt me. and i have skated with barnette and seen a lot of the other top players in the nation and i have to say that charlie is definitely the best player in the nation

I'd have to give the best player in the nation award to Itan Chavira or Jerry Ostercamp.

Jerry Ostercamp is the only forward to ever make me trip over myself on a 1 on 1.

[InlineMBA]

I'd have to give the best player in the nation award to Itan Chavira or Jerry Ostercamp.

Jerry Ostercamp is the only forward to ever make me trip over myself on a 1 on 1.

I'm pretty sure burrows00 was talking about being best in the nation playing college roller hockey, and neither Itan or Ostercamp play college roller hockey. Pro? Yes.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[know the game]

All you guys keep talking about the best player in the nation you make me laugh . The best player I ever saw is Jason Deskins and then Earnie Hartlieb he now plays for Florida ECHL(google them) they both played on the US NATIONAL team Deskins now plays for Eastern MCRHL watch him at the nationals all these college teams play games that they would get killed in the world games.:):):) maybe 1 player out of 100 D 1 teams could even make the National team

[InlineMBA]

All you guys keep talking about the best player in the nation you make me laugh . The best player I ever saw is Jason Deskins and then Earnie Hartlieb he now plays for Florida ECHL(google them) they both played on the US NATIONAL team Deskins now plays for Eastern MCRHL watch him at the nationals all these college teams play games that they would get killed in the world games.:):):) maybe 1 player out of 100 D 1 teams could even make the National team

knowthegame - based on your input I'm going to make a point to watch Jason Deskins play at nationals. However, I looked at the NCRHA EMU player stats page http://www.ncrha.org/team.php?team_id=52397&area=stats and it only shows Jason as having played 5 games. I know nothing about NCRHA eligibility rules, so - is he eligible to play at nationals, having only played in 5 regular season games for EMU?

Is Deskins really 29 years old? http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=33824 If Jason is 29 years old, does that make him the "oldest" active player in the NCRHA?

Also, nothing to do with Deskins - I thought the NCRHA has a 5 year eligibility rule, does this include ice hockey? Or, could you play 4 years of college ice hockey, then play 5 years of college roller hockey?

Thanks for the heads up.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

ps - I couldn't find Hartlieb http://www.ncrha.org/playerlist.php?&rosterpage=16 . How about a little help?

[William Bourque]

knowthegame - based on your input I'm going to make a point to watch Jason Deskins play at nationals. However, I looked at the NCRHA EMU player stats page http://www.ncrha.org/team.php?team_id=52397&area=stats and it only shows Jason as having played 5 games. I know nothing about NCRHA eligibility rules, so - is he eligible to play at nationals, having only played in 5 regular season games for EMU?

He only played 5 reg season games, but he played in 4 exhibition games as well bringing his total to 9 games, making him eligible for regionals & nationals. I'm pretty sure that is how it works out.

[William Bourque]

Also, nothing to do with Deskins - I thought the NCRHA has a 5 year eligibility rule, does this include ice hockey? Or, could you play 4 years of college ice hockey, then play 5 years of college roller hockey?

There is a five year rule, but this is his first season in the league the ncaa has nothing to do with the ncrha when it come to eligibility.

[InlineMBA]

Thanks! That answers all my questions. However, my 5 year eligibility question did not pertain to Deskins - just in general.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[MBurke]

Thanks! That answers all my questions. However, my 5 year eligibility question did not pertain to Deskins - just in general.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

You may appear on a team roster for five seasons in the NCRHA. They do not need to be contiguous. ACHA and the NCAA have no bearing on NCRHA eligibility.

[NCRHA]

Bourque is right. Exhibition games count towards the 6-game requirement to be eligible for the post-season.

[roy94]

Is any one else bothered by the fact that Mr. Deskins has fairly extensive professional hockey experience yet is participating in an amateur status collegiate event? Admittedly ice hockey and roller hockey are different games but the skill sets are fairly similar. Similar enough that I would imagine virtually any professional level ice hockey player who decided to participate in inline hockey would be an outstanding player within days or weeks, if that long. So I guess the question I’m posing is, should the NCRHA look into possibly amending the current rules to prevent former professional hockey athletes from any discipline of hockey from competing in the NCRHA?

I am in no way insinuating that Mr. Deskins should be ruled ineligible for nationals or that Eastern Michigan has done anything unsporting in adding him to their roster. According to the NCRHA rules he’s clearly eligible. Actually, I applaud their move to find an excellent player and add him to their roster, in their situation I would have done the same. I can’t find any fault in a team doing whatever it can (within the rules) to improve themselves. Nothing they have done is against the rules.

I’m merely questioning if this type of situation were to become common place would it be in the best interests of collegiate inline hockey regarding future development and growth of both the teams and league itself. I would imagine there would be difficulties promoting a collegiate hockey league that has former professional ice hockey players participating. Or that this would provide the fairest environment for amateur level competition. A team that could gain even 1-2 (or more) former professional level ice hockey players would, in my estimation, become exponentially better instantly and perhaps unjustly and unfairly so. Are those players truly amateurs?

Just a thought…If scholarships become available (personally I don’t know what schools would go this route but regardless) do the schools offering them give them to recently “retired” professional athletes. I have no idea what the salary is in the lower level minor organizations but I’m inclined to believe that for most mid to low level prospects it’s not that great. Because most of these players don’t pursue hockey for very long the prospect of getting a graduate level degree or second undergraduate degree while still getting to play hockey is, I would imagine , a fairly enticing proposition.

Please understand this is in no way an attack on Jason Deskins, Eastern Michigan or the NCRHA. Just curious what others think about this

So as not to completely hijack this thread, I saw Irvine 2 years ago in North Carolina and can say without a doubt I have never seen ANYONE shoot a puck like Middleton. By far the most impressive combination of accuracy, velocity and release I’ve witnessed. I really can’t comment on the rest of the team (they were all very capable from what I remember) but his shot was amazing.

[ISFN]

To be eligible to participate in a Regional Championship Event and at the National Championship Tournament, a player must have participated in a minimum of six (6) games throughout the course of the regional regular season.

Note it says Regional Regular season so he isn't eligible by thoes standards.

Thoes Exibition games weren't in the "regional regular season."

So he wasn't eligible for regionals nor is he for nationals.

[MBurke]

So he wasn't eligible for regionals nor is he for nationals.

Really? Where is that quoted from?

Per the NCRHA League Operations Manual, Section V.C.

x. All players must compete in a minimum of six (6) NCRHA-sanctioned games in order to be eligible for post-season play. Regular season and exhibition games played during the dates of the regular season shall count towards the 6-game requirement. Post-season play includes Member Organization championship tournaments and the Collegiate Roller Hockey National Championships.

[ISFN]

Really? Where is that quoted from?

Per the NCRHA League Operations Manual, Section V.C.

From the League Rule book hotshot

Looks like the League has 2 versions of this rule.

So like I said he wasn't eligible for regionals nor is he for nationals...don't get so defensive it's not like I made the rule up its written right in black in white on the OFFICIAL LEAGUE RULES document.

[MBurke]

From the League Manual hotshot

Well, then, I'm not sure what League Manual you're talking about.

I quoted directly from the NCRHA League Operations Manual - that's the primary document for eligibility nationally. Page 9 if you go via the link below:

http://www.ncrha.org/documents.php

You've since changed your post to say 'rule book' - if that's the case there's a contradiction, which doesn't necessarily mean he's ineligible - it means there's a contradictory rule written.

I wasn't getting defensive - I just couldn't find it. Eligibility shouldn't be in the rule book anyhow, but if you can cite where you found it I'm sure NCRHA will take a look at it.

[ISFN]

League RULE book..my apologizes

[MBurke]

League RULE book..my reapologizes

202.d - I see it now.

It's something for NCRHA to take a look at - obviously there are two contradictory rules written here.

[ISFN]

Exactly thanks for taking the time to check it out..means nothing to me anyways just found it odd.

[MBurke]

Exactly thanks for taking the time to check it out..means nothing to me anyways just found it odd.

Thanks for pointing it out - these rules are usually handled years apart by different people, so it's not hard for things like this to creep in. I've pointed it out to NCRHA already but if any of you notice other areas like this please let them know!

[NCRHA]

After examining the 2 documents I can tell you the following:

The NCRHA League Operations Manual was updated in the summer of 2007 concerning this topic. The NCRHA Rule Book was not. The LOM is the governing document for eligibility, while this information was included in the Rule Book as reference.

The rule book will be updated immediately with regards to this topic.

Since the LOM is the governing document for eligibility, Jason Deskins (or any other player that may have played under 6 regular season games, but enough exhibition games to get them to the 6 game mark) is eligible.

If you have any questions, please email me directly at ED@ncrha.org

Brennan Edwards
NCRHA Executive Director

[missionhockey33]

why is this thread still going, who cares about the nonsense about players. if you play well against them and better than you win. case close.

[NCRHA]

FYI the NCRHA Rule Book has been edited to remove "regional" from the sentence in question. This summer will hold thorough review of both documents.

[InlineMBA]

Is any one else bothered by the fact that Mr. Deskins has fairly extensive professional hockey experience yet is participating in an amateur status collegiate event? Admittedly ice hockey and roller hockey are different games but the skill sets are fairly similar. Similar enough that I would imagine virtually any professional level ice hockey player who decided to participate in inline hockey would be an outstanding player within days or weeks, if that long. So I guess the question I’m posing is, should the NCRHA look into possibly amending the current rules to prevent former professional hockey athletes from any discipline of hockey from competing in the NCRHA?

I am in no way insinuating that Mr. Deskins should be ruled ineligible for nationals or that Eastern Michigan has done anything unsporting in adding him to their roster. According to the NCRHA rules he’s clearly eligible. Actually, I applaud their move to find an excellent player and add him to their roster, in their situation I would have done the same. I can’t find any fault in a team doing whatever it can (within the rules) to improve themselves. Nothing they have done is against the rules.

I’m merely questioning if this type of situation were to become common place would it be in the best interests of collegiate inline hockey regarding future development and growth of both the teams and league itself. I would imagine there would be difficulties promoting a collegiate hockey league that has former professional ice hockey players participating. Or that this would provide the fairest environment for amateur level competition. A team that could gain even 1-2 (or more) former professional level ice hockey players would, in my estimation, become exponentially better instantly and perhaps unjustly and unfairly so. Are those players truly amateurs?

Just a thought…If scholarships become available (personally I don’t know what schools would go this route but regardless) do the schools offering them give them to recently “retired” professional athletes. I have no idea what the salary is in the lower level minor organizations but I’m inclined to believe that for most mid to low level prospects it’s not that great. Because most of these players don’t pursue hockey for very long the prospect of getting a graduate level degree or second undergraduate degree while still getting to play hockey is, I would imagine , a fairly enticing proposition.

Please understand this is in no way an attack on Jason Deskins, Eastern Michigan or the NCRHA. Just curious what others think about this

So as not to completely hijack this thread, I saw Irvine 2 years ago in North Carolina and can say without a doubt I have never seen ANYONE shoot a puck like Middleton. By far the most impressive combination of accuracy, velocity and release I’ve witnessed. I really can’t comment on the rest of the team (they were all very capable from what I remember) but his shot was amazing.

Just check the scoresheets for EMU games at Nationals.

If not for Deskins, I wonder where they'd be?

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8