Divsion 2 bids questionable?

[hockeyisnice]

the great plains only has 9 teams, and they play 18 games
the ecrha has 16 teams, and they play only 16 games
why would the great plains get 5 teams?? 5 out of 9 ? more teams make it to nationals in the great plains than dont make it? this makes no sense!

[islanderfan]

I have personally been to 3 national tournaments since 2000. I have watched the teams perform, especially in division 2 at these events. I've also had the experience of playing every one of these 5 teams this year. Any one of these teams, if they bring their 'A' game, can be a national champion. Last year's div 2 regional winner moved up to div 1 and has become this year's regional winner. The 5 div 2 invitees are competitive with this squad. The div 2 talent in the GPCIHL scares me. Having been involved with the GPCIHL for at least 9 seasons, I have to say that every year there is a quantum leap in talent on most teams, making it much harder for my squad to compete. This year has been the toughest, by far, of any of those 9 years.
I don't know what the other regions are like this year, but I do know the invite process, and if 5 teams from the GPCIHL were invited, it is because the regional managers felt that that was the right call.
The only way to 'fix' this is to have more inter-regional games so regions can really be evaluated on head to head competitions. I believe the NCRHA should insist on a certain number of inter-regional games. My personal thoughts are require an inter-regional week-end (2-4 games) of every team at least once every 4 years. This would go a long way towards taking the subjectivity of the national choices out of the equation.
As long as inter-regional play is limited to non-existent, their will be arguments.
I feel that all the GPCIHL div 2 teams invited will make a great showing. I and my team are pulling for all of them.

Jerry Remsbecker
KSU Roller Hockey Club
Faculty Adviser & Coach

[catch]

here here to coach remsbecker. on behalf of the MSU Bears let me say are unanimous sentiment is that Coach Remsbecker and effort put forth by K-State is the class of our conference.

Look at the Great Plains a year ago and how the 5 teams faired in Nationals. There is a drop off after the top 3 teams. However, their was a post on here yesterday by a Wash. U student who pointed out how tight they had played. The top 3 teams are Missouri State, Truman and Saint Louis. Wash U. versus these 3 went as follows:

Wash U 5-4 over SLU
Wash U 4-2 over SLU
Wash U 0-4 vs Truman
Wash U 1-2 vs Truman
Wash U 3-6 vs MSU
Wash U 5-5 vs MSU
Wash U 4-6 vs MSU

The player from Wash U. hit it on the head when pointing out their ability to play smart and competitive with each of these schools. Regular season Wash U. finished 2 points behind SLU. SLU played no division I games whereas Wash U played one, i.e., the 2-points is readily irrelevant.

SIU was one point behind Wash U. and split with them in the regular season and then defeated them in regionals in sudden death. Obviously, there is no comparison between regions without playing, however, I would note Truman is respected as being number 3 in the national with a lot more losses than teams below them. MSU is number 2 without a defeat. Neither SIU nor Wash U. lose games they should win. Time will tell, but I would suggest both of these schools will be competitive at nationals. Laster year we were virtually identical to SIU going into regionals. 10-7-1. We defeated SLU in sudden death at regionals, just as SIU did to Wash U. We split out games at nationals and while we were far from winning, despite being the weakest team out of the great plains we were in the middle at nationals.

[RustyPipes27]

It's weird having serious, coherent posts from catch, not that I'm not a fan of his other work.

[SnakeHandler]

if someone got screwed, it wasnt by the GP teams. all the GP teams are good. if you're going to complain, which I am all for, please PICK YOUR BATTLES.

[catch]

It's weird having serious, coherent posts from catch, not that I'm not a fan of his other work.


1) Thats fine I will refrain from posting anything that makes sense, not that will make you happy
2) I was going to hit you up for tickets to the Preakness, but I guess thats off
3) I'm going with University of Maryland Baltimore County on April 1 in Lacrosse.

Hows that for incoherent. I don't even start drinking until 5:00 and its only 3:00 on the east coast.

[madfred]

catch did you skip the tetrabenazine today?

[catch]

catch did you skip the tetrabenazine today?

i wouldn't know. i'm not the mad part of your equation.

[Jtslick89]

I and my team are pulling for all of them.


Thanks Jerry, we all appreciate your support and respect your team's class and effort.

[catch]

i'm confused. it looks to me like tampa got bid after losing their last playoff game and finished 9-10-1. did they get an automatic bid? college of charleston finished 13-7-1 and didnt get a bid after splitting with tampa and winning the division. i am very supportive of wash U and siu making the tournament as discussed above. However, there is certainly logic to the number of teams in the east overall compared to the number of entries 5. It looks like Temple and Drexel are both very close.

[MAmato]

i'm confused. it looks to me like tampa got bid after losing their last playoff game and finished 9-10-1. did they get an automatic bid? college of charleston finished 13-7-1 and didnt get a bid after splitting with tampa and winning the division. i am very supportive of wash U and siu making the tournament as discussed above. However, there is certainly logic to the number of teams in the east overall compared to the number of entries 5. It looks like Temple and Drexel are both very close.
Drexel suffers a bit because they had to play WCU and Neumann 4x; Temple looked outclassed by a 12 seed in the playoffs. As an adverse party (I hate everyone in ECRHA DII equally!) I'd say that there were five tiers in the ECRHA: Neumann, WCU/Albany/Ship, Maine, Temple/Drexel/SRU/Bingo/Cornell/Vermont/MVille/Brockport (in no particular order), and then Scranton/Ramapo/Briarcliffe. The level of differentiation between tiers was minimal (teams came very close to beating Albany all year, teams did in fact beat Ship, and Maine tied, lost, or came very close to losing to teams they really shouldn't have given their seed) but there was a noticeable drop-off after Maine. As a guy who wants the ECRHA to send teams that are strong candidates for top 8 teams, I have no trouble sending 4 very strong teams as well as a team that cut things closer than they should while being strong rather than send a team that is demonstrably weaker. Sorry, Drexel and Temple.

[dan sangiorgio]

i would have to agree with you. i don't think temple who is the next east team after maine is ready to play at nationals. i think with the 5 teams from the ecrha going in d2 this will be a very good year for the amount of teams that go deep. i see all teams finishing .500 an above at nationals and would expect 4 d2 ecrha teams to make it to the elite 8 and 2 possibly 3 to the final 4.

[MBurke]

the great plains only has 9 teams, and they play 18 games
the ecrha has 16 teams, and they play only 16 games
why would the great plains get 5 teams?? 5 out of 9 ? more teams make it to nationals in the great plains than dont make it? this makes no sense!

DII in the GP is that deep - I think every team there will be very competitive.

[thefelixculpa]

Tiers should be taken with a grain of salt . Just looking at this past weekend, Ship gets beat 8-2 by WCU but then we millersville, the lowly 12 seed,played toe-to-toe with WCU. Vermont beats Maine. Stuff like that happened all year. It seems to me that skillwise, almost all teams are even outside from Neumann/WCU. Some teams just made more of their opportunities during the year.

that has nothing to do with nationals really. I agree with all ecrha teams who were selected.

[catch]

well if were setting tiers here is the great plains here it is. Bear in mind the Lamberts have guns pointed at me:

1) UMSL

2) Mizzou, Truman, MSU, UMR, SLU

3) Wash U, SIU, Illinois, Ill State

4) Lindenwood after this past weekend

Obviously, this combines division I and Divsion II, but after 40 posts on the landslide defeated of the Lion in 2008 Lindienwood is starting to look like Ron Paul.

[MAmato]

Tiers should be taken with a grain of salt . Just looking at this past weekend, Ship gets beat 8-2 by WCU but then we millersville, the lowly 12 seed,played toe-to-toe with WCU. Vermont beats Maine. Stuff like that happened all year. It seems to me that skillwise, almost all teams are even outside from Neumann/WCU. Some teams just made more of their opportunities during the year.

that has nothing to do with nationals really. I agree with all ecrha teams who were selected.
I don't want to take away from your weekend in the least, I really don't. You guys played great.

At the same time, my team was a bunch of chuckleheads yet tied Maine and blew a 8-7 lead in the last minute. All of the teams in that 4th tier had similar choking moments and inconsistency. Yeah, any one of them could have beaten Albany, Ship, or Maine, but on the by and large, they didn't. They did beat each other with an alarming consistency (I don't know how you could try and compare any of those teams from 6 to 13 since, for example, we had Brockport and Binghamtons number but couldn't beat Drexel SRU or Vermont while both of those teams we beat also beat teams we couldn't), but that doesn't really count.

I think if you check the records of the games with tiers it plays out so tier one had a win % of nearly 1 versus all tiers (and it is 1! yay), tier 2 something in the vicinity of 90% versus all tiers, tier 3 somewhere in the vicinity of 80% versus lower tiers, tier 4 somewhere south of 33% versus higher tiers and around 50% versus same tiers, and tier 5 as whatever % they were.

[boring]

catch - interesting way to combine 2 divisions i guess...

[William Bourque]

Tiers should be taken with a grain of salt . Just looking at this past weekend, Ship gets beat 8-2 by WCU but then we millersville, the lowly 12 seed,played toe-to-toe with WCU.

Yes and No.

I really don't think anyone who was at that game could really take anything from it. Ship decided to be stupid, and as a result, saw the majority of the team benched to prevent anything from happening after undisciplined play. Those issues are internal and will be fixed. ask WCU or Neumann if they were happy with what they got from Ship, i am sure both are highly disappointed, as well as all of Ship.

[thefelixculpa]

sorry if that came off as a shot at your team. I didn't see the game so I shouldn't have used it as an example. I was just saying that on any given day, one team can look like a champion caliber team and then like a completely different team another day.

[William Bourque]

sorry if that came off as a shot at your team. I didn't see the game so I shouldn't have used it as an example. I was just saying that on any given day, one team can look like a champion caliber team and then like a completely different team another day.

I didn't take it as a shot at all. Hence the yes and no. I generally agree with your notion though. I probably shouldn't have pointed out that probably wasn't the best game to look at since it is what it is.

[hockeyisnice]

Drexel suffers a bit because they had to play WCU and Neumann 4x; Temple looked outclassed by a 12 seed in the playoffs. As an adverse party (I hate everyone in ECRHA DII equally!) I'd say that there were five tiers in the ECRHA: Neumann, WCU/Albany/Ship, Maine, Temple/Drexel/SRU/Bingo/Cornell/Vermont/MVille/Brockport (in no particular order), and then Scranton/Ramapo/Briarcliffe. The level of differentiation between tiers was minimal (teams came very close to beating Albany all year, teams did in fact beat Ship, and Maine tied, lost, or came very close to losing to teams they really shouldn't have given their seed) but there was a noticeable drop-off after Maine. As a guy who wants the ECRHA to send teams that are strong candidates for top 8 teams, I have no trouble sending 4 very strong teams as well as a team that cut things closer than they should while being strong rather than send a team that is demonstrably weaker. Sorry, Drexel and Temple.

drexel was in 2 goal games with neumann, wcu, maine and albany (your top teams)

temple was also in 2 goal games with neumann, ship, maine, and beat albany 5-1, also, temple played neumann out of division 4 times (2x reg season)

how can you divide it up so precisely with these stats and results?

of course those top teams are better, not disputing that

but the dropoff is not as clear cut as you make it
after neuman and wcu

[hockey1]

Drexel suffers a bit because they had to play WCU and Neumann 4x; Temple looked outclassed by a 12 seed in the playoffs. As an adverse party (I hate everyone in ECRHA DII equally!) I'd say that there were five tiers in the ECRHA: Neumann, WCU/Albany/Ship, Maine, Temple/Drexel/SRU/Bingo/Cornell/Vermont/MVille/Brockport (in no particular order), and then Scranton/Ramapo/Briarcliffe. The level of differentiation between tiers was minimal (teams came very close to beating Albany all year, teams did in fact beat Ship, and Maine tied, lost, or came very close to losing to teams they really shouldn't have given their seed) but there was a noticeable drop-off after Maine. As a guy who wants the ECRHA to send teams that are strong candidates for top 8 teams, I have no trouble sending 4 very strong teams as well as a team that cut things closer than they should while being strong rather than send a team that is demonstrably weaker. Sorry, Drexel and Temple.

Outclassed...? Where did class come into that game?