ECRHA D2 Regionals

[timholl3]

I am just wondering how everyone feels about the process for making it to regionals. To me, it seems kind of unfair to pick the 12 D2 teams with the most points because its known that certain divisions are stronger than others. In my opinion the Southern Conference is the best conference in the league, and all the teams in the division should be making regionals. However, Temple, Millersville and Shippensburg are struggling to get in because of how difficult their schedules are. Its tough to get points when you have the national champion, 4th ranked and 9th ranked teams in the country in one division. I think the only fair way to have regionals is to either make it a 16 team tourny or to have a selection committee like there is for nationals pick. Leave thoughts.

[William Bourque]

I am just wondering how everyone feels about the process for making it to regionals. To me, it seems kind of unfair to pick the 12 D2 teams with the most points because its known that certain divisions are stronger than others. In my opinion the Southern Conference is the best conference in the league, and all the teams in the division should be making regionals. However, Temple, Millersville and Shippensburg are struggling to get in because of how difficult their schedules are. Its tough to get points when you have the national champion, 4th ranked and 9th ranked teams in the country in one division. I think the only fair way to have regionals is to either make it a 16 team tourny or to have a selection committee like there is for nationals pick. Leave thoughts.

I think things are fine the way they are...

i wish that scheds were a little more balanced...but things can be perfect

[MAmato]

While I agree that those teams are pretty good, you can't really just blame the conference system because the schedules are unbalanced, even within conferences. Some teams have benefitted by getting better draws due to location or scheduling conflicts, and some have gotten shafted; such is life in any sport. Furthermore, what happens when it comes down to situations (like the one this season) where there's around 6 teams that are arguably equal? When team A narrowly beats team B who narrowly beats team C who beats team A, and all three teams are at risk of missing regionals, who should miss it?

Let's say we go to a 16 team bracket and do double-elimination. When that happens, the topic of complaint changes from teams not making regionals due to strength of conference to teams getting crappy seeds due to strength of conference. Doing a head to head comparison is impossible because we don't have a big enough number of games to get a good sample and avoid the situation of teams A,B, and C from above.

Conference strength shifts from year to year, and it's that way in pretty much every sport year in and year out. Somebody is always going to benefit in some way and someone is always going to get screwed.

[minveninato]

I am just wondering how everyone feels about the process for making it to regionals. To me, it seems kind of unfair to pick the 12 D2 teams with the most points because its known that certain divisions are stronger than others. In my opinion the Southern Conference is the best conference in the league, and all the teams in the division should be making regionals. However, Temple, Millersville and Shippensburg are struggling to get in because of how difficult their schedules are. Its tough to get points when you have the national champion, 4th ranked and 9th ranked teams in the country in one division. I think the only fair way to have regionals is to either make it a 16 team tourny or to have a selection committee like there is for nationals pick. Leave thoughts.


i def agree with to a certain point but if u have a 16 team double elimantion toruney then u have a few teams that shouldn't be there, granted i agree that all the teams in the south deserve to be there because they have had extremely tough schedules, but i don't think u can have 16 teams because then u have 3 or so teams that really shouldn't be there and remember there is only 17 teams in d 2 here in the east! 12 is a good number but u can't have almost every team make regionals thats not fair to the teams who got the job done in the regular season what happened say briarcliffe made it as the 16th seed (my team) with a record of 1-11-1 beat say neumann and eliminated them in the first round that would be awesome lol but thats not fair to neumann because they r what 15-0-1? and to lose to us because we came in second to last place thats really not fair to them

[William Bourque]

i def agree with to a certain point but if u have a 16 team double elimantion toruney then u have a few teams that shouldn't be there, granted i agree that all the teams in the south deserve to be there because they have had extremely tough schedules, but i don't think u can have 16 teams because then u have 3 or so teams that really shouldn't be there and remember there is only 17 teams in d 2 here in the east! 12 is a good number but u can't have almost every team make regionals thats not fair to the teams who got the job done in the regular season what happened say briarcliffe made it as the 16th seed (my team) with a record of 1-11-1 beat say neumann and eliminated them in the first round that would be awesome lol but thats not fair to neumann because they r what 15-0-1? and to lose to us because we came in second to last place thats really not fair to them


your point is correct, but could have done without the last point...

if there are 16 teams, and you win that game, its not that its not fair to neumann...if you beat them, thats good...what wouldnt be fair is making them play a game that could be potentially 15-0, ie Neumann-Ship...

the 12 teams is fine...i wish it was 8, double elimination, cause that would be more exciting and make the regular season much more important...

[dan sangiorgio]

I agree with the fact that being in the southern division is tough and could cost a good team a playoff spot. However i don't think adding teams is a good idea. i think we have too many teams making the playoffs as it is. having 9 teams(half of the teams in east) seems like a better number to me, keeping the same format we had last year. with 9 teams making it just one less round robin pool(instead of 4pools of the 3 we would have 3 pools of 3) and then having a 8v9 play in game after seeding the brackets. a 8 team double elimnation tourney i also feel would work. Also i think with less teams making the playoffs it puts less stress on regionals which i know many people have complained about the last two years i.e wenthworth not making nationals last year and ship the year before.

[William Bourque]

I agree with the fact that being in the southern division is tough and could cost a good team a playoff spot. However i don't think adding teams is a good idea. i think we have too many teams making the playoffs as it is. having 9 teams(half of the teams in east) seems like a better number to me, keeping the same format we had last year. with 9 teams making it just one less round robin pool(instead of 4pools of the 3 we would have 3 pools of 3) and then having a 8v9 play in game after seeding the brackets. a 8 team double elimnation tourney i also feel would work. Also i think with less teams making the playoffs it puts less stress on regionals which i know many people have complained about the last two years i.e wenthworth not making nationals last year and ship the year before.


couldnt agree more

[MBurke]

Flawed logic, I think.

Having only 8 teams make it only makes the problem of conference and schedule strength worse. Here's the playoff teams if the season were to end today:

Neumann, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Drexel, West Chester, Maine, Cornell, Brockport.

One could make a pretty good argument that deserving teams are left out under that system.

The advantages of the system we are using this year as opposed to the one used the past couple years?

1. 3 Round-Robin games per team (4-team brackets) means a single loss in the round-robin doesn't necessarily doom you to a terrible seed in the elimination round based on one game. See the past DII elimination round for some proof of how the playoff brackets can end up completely lopsided based on one game played at the end of the season.

2. A shorter elimination round (more traditional tournament-style format) means that the 3-game round robin actually counts for a lot, since you need to do well in that (finish top 2 in your pool) to move on. One game won't doom you, but two games probably will. Since fewer teams make it to the elimination round, there's less chance of a team losing one game in an early round and missing out on nationals entirely when they should be there (see Rutgers last year).

Nothing's ideal, really, short of having a 3-game series for each round. Any double-elim tournament larger than 8 teams runs too long, and only taking 8 teams with the current disparity in conference strength and relatively short regular season is sure to generate complaints, too.

One of the things we're going to do at the meeting in March is to actually split you up into divisional groups to vote on how you want to do this kind of stuff by division next year.

[JimmyCruse]

What teams from the ECRHA should be at nationals this year?

[tadams97]

While I agree that those teams are pretty good, you can't really just blame the conference system because the schedules are unbalanced, even within conferences. Some teams have benefitted by getting better draws due to location or scheduling conflicts, and some have gotten shafted; such is life in any sport.

Conference strength shifts from year to year, and it's that way in pretty much every sport year in and year out. Somebody is always going to benefit in some way and someone is always going to get screwed.


Amen to that..... seeing how Ship and Ville could possibly not make regionals while Cornell can with a draw of playing Scranton, Briarcliff, & Duquesne twice each and having a forfeit win served on a plate.....

[RustyPipes27]

Handle your business and getting in won't be an issue. If you're not in the top half of the league, you probably shouldn't be going to any form of postseason. No offense to those teams that might miss the cut, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

[MAmato]

...except that in my example, we tied Brockport who lost to Maine who beat you who beat us who lost to Maine by one. I would dare say that we are in the neighborhood of teams like Maine and Brockport, whom nobody questions as a regionals pick! We had a relatively light out of conference schedule but 2 games v Wentworth should have balanced that out. Unfortunately, nobody could have seen them dropping when they made the schedule.

You guys are a good team and I hope to see you in Regionals (especially since you walked all over us), but I'm not about to agree that my team doesn't deserve to be there.

[minveninato]

Amen to that..... seeing how Ship and Ville could possibly not make regionals while Cornell can with a draw of playing Scranton, Briarcliff, & Duquesne twice each and having a forfeit win served on a plate.....

yea Cornell had a little bit of a weaker schedule then u guys but i wouldn't say its because they played duqense, briarcliffe and scranton 2 times each duquesne , i mean duquense can be a fiesty team and is def not and easy just look at their losses to brockport 4-2, temple 8-5 and 4-3 and they tied cornell 7-7 so thats def not an easy win, and as for briarcliffe were certainly not a team that has been walked over this year we have had a very tough schedule and had a lot of close games millersville 7-3( thats was a lost closer then the score was) temple 9-7, cornell 2-1, albany 5-3, shipp 9-8, maine 5-3 and then we tied cornell and yea we gotten blown out in a fewe other games but we were in most of them for 2 periods and fell apart in the 3rd and as u can ask most of the teams we have played were certainly not a pushover by any means. Cornell won the games they should have won and thats what good teams do so yea they deserve to be at regionals!

[Leaferguy]

Cornell won the games they should have won and thats what good teams do so yea they deserve to be at regionals!

My sentiments exactly.

The same tough in-conference teams you play during the regular season will be at Regionals, so just getting there doesn't mean you'll walk. Yes, anything can happen and there are always upsets, but a good team will be good now and then.

Just as you see it not being fair for Cornell to play an "easy" schedule, it's not fair that they not make it due to their "easy" schedule. They're a good team and have progressed far since last year. Let them have the shot they've earned.

[minveninato]

with all this talk about regionals and about teams not deserving to be there and everything about teams having weaker schedules then others and not enough regular season games i was thinking instead of have 5 or 6 exhibiton games y not have those games become regular season? like the pre season toruney where it is mandatory for every team to be there y not have every team play teams not in their division like they already do and have them count as a regualr season games and thats an extra 3 or 4 games for ur regular season record and the 2 exhibiton games throughout the season be regualr season games and that gives a 22 game regualr season schedule instead of a 16 game schedule and thats an extra 6 games! just an idea any thoughts on it?

[Army Defense]

i like that idea, except we didnt go to that exhibition tournament due to a home football game we are required to be at, even though the team loses with or without us. if everyone else is there, it could work, we would just be playing 5 games a weekend to catch up like URI did this past weekend. I'm sure we will be able to discuss this at the ACC meeting in march.

[DGlass]

I think having the first event of the year (where attendance is all bit mandatory - see West Point) count as exhibition games is an important thing for the players, teams and league. New players and teams need a few games to become accustomed to the style of play and officiating that occurs at the collegiate level, the officials need a few games to get back into the college mindset and the league needs an event to dust off the rust of the summer.

Up until this year, the games you played at the CDE were just about the only exhibition games you played (certain circumstances gave a game here or there) during the year. This year, a number of scheduling problems arose throughout the year and were a part of the decision to add 2 more exhibition games to the season schedule.

These are all very important issues that need to be discussed at the annual ACC meeting. Having this meeting in the spring, as we are planning on doing this year, will give the league an entire summer to work on scheduling, staffing and other issues.

I will post this in the ACC mtg forum as well, but I think every team needs to realize the importance of attending the ACC meeting. Even if the decision is made to have this event during your school's spring break, contact every player in your club and see if someone is available to attend. If you do not attend, your voice will not be heard and it will be hard (if not impossible) to make exceptions to the policies the league adopts.

[minveninato]

as i posted earlier i really think here in the east we should add a few exta regular season games and drop the exh. games from our schedule, i was looking at the other regions and the midwest and southeast both have 20 game regular seasons and the other regions have at least 18 games (like we had last year) and i was thinking maybe we should go to something like that maybe even 22 games instead of 16 because thats a possible of 4,8, or even 12 points in the standings that anybody can get but in these extra games! play teams not in ur division so a team can make 1 trip that they wouldnt normally make ( a little futher then there normal trip) or like i said make 1 event mandatory for all teams at feasterville (like the pre season toruny) just have the games count, and have them played against teams not in ur division, and if a team wants to play any exh. games then raise the money and travel out of region and play teams in hopes of turning some heads to make a push for nationals (shipp last year) thats just my opinion it seems to be working for other regions so y not try it? i know that would be hard and its just an idea thrown out there so let me know what everyone thinks

[Leaferguy]

Stupid question, but how are the pools broken down? I forget and don't know where to find out :o

[MBurke]

Stupid question, but how are the pools broken down? I forget and don't know where to find out :o

Isn't it a news article on the web site?

1 6 7 12
2 5 8 11
3 4 9 10

[Leaferguy]

I seriously must've missed it. I can't find it.

Thanks, Mike!

[MBurke]

as i posted earlier i really think here in the east we should add a few exta regular season games and drop the exh. games from our schedule, i was looking at the other regions and the midwest and southeast both have 20 game regular seasons and the other regions have at least 18 games (like we had last year) and i was thinking maybe we should go to something like that maybe even 22 games instead of 16 because thats a possible of 4,8, or even 12 points in the standings that anybody can get but in these extra games! play teams not in ur division so a team can make 1 trip that they wouldnt normally make ( a little futher then there normal trip) or like i said make 1 event mandatory for all teams at feasterville (like the pre season toruny) just have the games count, and have them played against teams not in ur division, and if a team wants to play any exh. games then raise the money and travel out of region and play teams in hopes of turning some heads to make a push for nationals (shipp last year) thats just my opinion it seems to be working for other regions so y not try it? i know that would be hard and its just an idea thrown out there so let me know what everyone thinks

Quotes so you knew who I was referencing.

We've tried that before too - there are advantages to it (who doesn't like more games) but more headaches (more complaints about uneven scheduling and more travel problems).

We will discuss this at the ACC meeting in march (see new thread for the announcement on that)...

[William Bourque]

Isn't it a news article on the web site?

1 6 7 12
2 5 8 11
3 4 9 10


I don't think there was burke.

[MBurke]

Yeah my confusion - the article I was thinking of only handled tiebreakers.

[RUsigs11]

Could someone post the D1 pools?

[MBurke]

DI and B are the same:

1 4 5 8
2 3 6 7

[bobraynor]

Isn't it a news article on the web site?

1 6 7 12
2 5 8 11
3 4 9 10

DI and B are the same:
1 4 5 8
2 3 6 7


Another stupid question, but is it 3 pools of 4 (across) or 4 pools of 3 (down)? Same for B-division...

[Drexel63]

I would have to assume 3 pools of 4, which is different from last years 4 pools of three...

I wish these things would become standard.... it seems something is different every year and with no real definitive up or down either way...

what was the reasoning for the change this year?

[Leaferguy]

DII has to be 3 pools of 4. There's no way 1, 2, and 3 are rewarded by playing each other in round robin play, although that would be a great pool.

How will the playoff brackets work after the Round Robin? 3 RR games, I'm assuming, and then the top 8 move on?

Same thing with DI and B, most likely; 2 pools of 4.

[GoRangrHky]

I think people were complaining that 1 bad game in the RR could cost you a whole season. This will eliminate the possibility that 1 loss would knock you out of the bracket. I think that's why, at least...

[RUsigs11]

With D1...
I'm assuming each team will play each other once in the pool, and then the top 4 teams will play in the semis.
Is this correct? I heard something about a double elimination format which is why I ask.

[MBurke]

I would have to assume 3 pools of 4, which is different from last years 4 pools of three...

I wish these things would become standard.... it seems something is different every year and with no real definitive up or down either way...

what was the reasoning for the change this year?

It's actually been pretty consistent for the past couple years. Change made due to pretty good complaints that teams were missing nationals because of one loss in the RR or one fluke loss in the elimination bracket. This should help curb that somewhat.

[GoRangrHky]

Ok, so here's what I'm looking at for DII based on who everyone is playing for hte rest of hte season and stuff. A lot of it is guessing, and basically predicting who will win some games, which as we all know, subject to change. But here's a guess:

Group A 1 6 7 12
Neumann
Drexel
Maine
Millersville

Group B 2 5 8 11
SUNY Stony Brook
Hofstra
SUNY Brockport
Temple

Group C 3 4 9 10
Albany
West Chester
Cornell
Shippensburg

[MBurke]

All brackets play 3 RR games.

Teams are then reseeded regardless of pool (ie, top 2 from each pool do not necessarily move on) for the championship rounds. There is no reseeding during the brackets themselves:

DI and B: Top 4 teams from pool play advance (1v4, 2v3). There is a consolation game for 3rd place.

DII: Top 6 teams from pool play advance. Seeds 1 and 2 get a bye. Winner of 4v5 plays Seed 1 in semis, Winner of 3v5 plays 2 in semis. Consolation game for 3rd place here, too.

[RustyPipes27]

Burkalicious definition make them boys go loco
They want my treasure so they get their pleasures from my photo
you could see me, you can't squeeze me
I ain't easy, I ain't sleazy
I got reasons why I tease 'em
Boys just come and go like seasons

Burkalicious (Burkalicious)
But I ain't promiscuous
And if you was suspicious
All that **** is fictitious
I blow kisses
That puts them boys on rock, rock
And they be lining down the block just to watch what I got

So delicious (It's hot, hot)
So delicious (I put them boys on rock, rock)
So delicious (they wanna slice of what I got)
Burkalicious (t-t-t-t-t-tasty, tasty)

Burkalicious def-, Burkalicious def-, Burkalicious def-
Burkalicious definition make them boys go crazy
They always claim they know me
Comin' to me call me Mikey (Hey Mikey)
I'm the B to the U, R, K the I the E
And can't no other lady put it down like me

I'm Burkalicious (so delicious)
My body stay vicious
I be up in the gym just working on my fitness
He's my witness
I put yo' boy on rock rock
And he be lining down the block just to watch what I got

So delicious (It's hot, hot)
So delicious (I put them boys on rock, rock)
So delicious (they wanna slice of what I got)
Burkalicious (t-t-t-t-t-tasty, tasty)

He?s Burkalicious!

[Army Defense]

wow.. im speechless :eek:

[RUsigs11]

I'm curious as to why 3 teams could make it from one pool, and only one from another? Shouldn't teams be able to control their own destiny? The top 2 teams making it from each pool would seem more fair. You beat who you're supposed to beat and you're in, regardless of what happens in the other pool.

[William Bourque]

I'm curious as to why 3 teams could make it from one pool, and only one from another? Shouldn't teams be able to control their own destiny? The top 2 teams making it from each pool would seem more fair. You beat who you're supposed to beat and you're in, regardless of what happens in the other pool.


it makes it harder for the lower seeded teams from reg season to advance?

making the reg season more difficult

[MBurke]

it makes it harder for the lower seeded teams from reg season to advance?

making the reg season more difficult


This will only come into play in a situation where there are ties. This way the goals scored in one or two games don't overshadow an entire season's record.

[RUsigs11]

Burke
I definitely understand your reasoning, trust me I do.
But the importance of the regular season seems to change from year to year.

In '04, regular season was the entire basis for nationals selection, except for the one at-large bid. (I understand that this was due to the late schedule ECRHA had in comparison to the rest of the country).

Last year, regular season really didn't mean much- it only factored into re-seeding after round robin play, when the field was narrowed from 9 teams to 8. It basically only eliminated one team that did poorly in round robin play, and still gave other teams the chance to play out their destinies in the playoff round (see Pitt and Boston).

This year it can be the difference of whether or not a team moves out of the round robin stage, regardless of whether or not they do well in their pool. With the 4-team per pool/2-pool setup, lower seeds are already at a great disadvantage because they will have to most likely beat a top 4 seed to advance (rightfully so- it should be that way).
However, if these teams do manage to pull the upset, why not have performance in round robin play (goal differential) factor into the playoff formula instead of regular season record? If not, then at least reward the team that performed better in their pool (2nd) as opposed to a team that finished lower (3rd) in the other pool.

I guess the question is: does a team that finishes 3rd in their pool deserve to advance more than a team that finishes 2nd in their pool because of their regular season record? This is troubling to me, especially when a team can only have control over what happens in their pool and not the other pool.

[MBurke]

I guess the question is: does a team that finishes 3rd in their pool deserve to advance more than a team that finishes 2nd in their pool because of their regular season record? This is troubling to me, especially when a team can only have control over what happens in their pool and not the other pool.

My response being: does a .500 team that goes 1-1-1 at regionals deserve to get in over a 12-4 team that goes 1-1-1 at regionals and lets up one more goal?

[bakerg81]

As far as the regional scheduling, seeding, and playoff bracketing go, I really am up in the air. There are plenty of ways to go about doing it. One possibility is allowing all 8 teams to make the playoff round. It adds 4 more games, but in the grand scheme of it all, shouldn't all teams be given one last gasp to make it? I understand this brings up the problems with rink time and playing too many games in one weekend, but every team is playing the same amount of games.

One thing that I believe needs the most work is balancing out the schedule. I understand that travel, finances and rink time all come into play, but I just don't see the justification in teams having completely different schedules all qualifying for the same regional tournament. For example: UCONN plays Army, Northeastern, and Boston twice because of divisional alignment. Granted, UConn was able to beat the teams in our division, but they never faced Pitt or Rutgers. We played Rutgers and Towson twice despite them not being in our division and never played any of the teams from the North Division, except for UConn, who we beat 5-2.

Even more glaring is that Binghamton, in our division, played Boston, Army and Northeastern and never played Suffolk, Nassau, or Towson.

Now I understand that we probably won't make regionals. This is through no fault but our own. We didn't win enough games or pick up enough points. And you can say that we're going to have to beat these teams at regionals anways, however, I think that changing the divisional structure into a single unit where you play each time once with the allowance of playing one or two teams twice in a rivalry type set up.

This comes across as me whining because my team isn't make regionals, but I can't see the justification in dropping 1000 dollars a year to play college roller hockey and not even being given a fair shake at regionals.

[MBurke]

As far as the regional scheduling, seeding, and playoff bracketing go, I really am up in the air. There are plenty of ways to go about doing it. One possibility is allowing all 8 teams to make the playoff round. It adds 4 more games, but in the grand scheme of it all, shouldn't all teams be given one last gasp to make it? I understand this brings up the problems with rink time and playing too many games in one weekend, but every team is playing the same amount of games.

Yes but then round robin play really becomes irrelevant and makes the regular season even less important. Based on the way our bylaws are written right now for nationals selections, one single upset game in the quarterfinals is enough to get you into nationals (or keep you out - see Rutgers and Wentworth last year). The problem we then face is that we send those teams who made the semis to nationals, leave Rutgers/Wentworth/etc home, don't show well at nationals, and get even fewer bids the following year because of our 'weak' region.

One thing that I believe needs the most work is balancing out the schedule. .... however, I think that changing the divisional structure into a single unit where you play each time once with the allowance of playing one or two teams twice in a rivalry type set up.

This comes across as me whining because my team isn't make regionals, but I can't see the justification in dropping 1000 dollars a year to play college roller hockey and not even being given a fair shake at regionals.

I agree completely, and we could actually use that kind of system if every team were available every weekend to travel anywhere in the region for an event. Any takers?

It's on a smaller scale, but we face the same travel cost issues and scheduling problems that every sports league does. There were plenty of bad teams that made the NFC playoffs in the NFL this year while deserving AFC teams stayed home. The West generally trounces the East in cross-conference NHL play... etc.

[KillinAintShe]

You guys already know that there will be significantly more ecrha teams at nationals than any conference because for some strange reason, you think you are the best conference out there. happens every year.

[William Bourque]

You guys already know that there will be significantly more ecrha teams at nationals than any conference because for some strange reason, you think you are the best conference out there. happens every year.

I think its a moot point...based soley on results from nationals the last 5 years it shows that the top regions are very close in the teams they send to nationals...

DI:
South E- 49-34-4 - .586
GP - 29-22-2 - .566
East - 51-44-7 - .534

DII:
East - 52-34-10 - .594
West - 18-15-3 - .542
GP - 26-24-4 - .519


Total (DI and DII):
East - 103-78-17 - .563
GP - 55-46-6 - .542
South E - 58-55-7 - .513

[William Bourque]

any yes, i have this information sitting on my computer...i do this stuff when i am frustrated with work and other stuff...

how many people do you know who have every baseball/hockey/football and basketball card they own in an access database?

[Patn Lawton]

You guys already know that there will be significantly more ecrha teams at nationals than any conference because for some strange reason, you think you are the best conference out there. happens every year.

So if we think we are the best then we get to send the most teams to nationals? Thats convenient!

[MBurke]

You guys already know that there will be significantly more ecrha teams at nationals than any conference because for some strange reason, you think you are the best conference out there. happens every year.

Or possibly because about 25% of the country's teams reside within our region - assuming equal distribution of talent around the country, it's natural that ECRHA with 47 teams would have more teams attending nationals than, say, MCRHL with 15.

I'm not going to say we're the strongest - in fact I'd probably put us somewhere in the middle overall, but our procedure opens itself to sending weaker teams and unfortunately with our current bid process strength in past years is (at least subconsciously) an influence on how bids get handed out.

[KillinAintShe]

All I'm saying is this: Last year some teams were left out that would have DESTROYED Duquesne or Ball State or Sam Houston. NCRHA doesn't need equal representation from each region, they need the best teams at nationals. This year, d2 Great Plains has 3 or 4 teams (probably 5) that would do well at nationals and I think that the bids should reflect that.

Speaking of Sam Houston St, what ever happened to the texas teams?

[Drexel63]

All I'm saying is this: Last year some teams were left out that would have DESTROYED Duquesne or Ball State or Sam Houston.

that's the point... there were several D2 ECRHA teams that, 9 times out of 10, would have beaten Duquesne as well... that one win out of 10 happened in Regionals and got them in...

[MBurke]

All I'm saying is this: Last year some teams were left out that would have DESTROYED Duquesne or Ball State or Sam Houston. NCRHA doesn't need equal representation from each region, they need the best teams at nationals. This year, d2 Great Plains has 3 or 4 teams (probably 5) that would do well at nationals and I think that the bids should reflect that.


Ok now we're really getting down to the crux of the problem...how do you propose NCRHA should do that, sight unseen, every year?

You may just "know" that those teams are better, but how do you justify leaving an 18-2 team home and taking one that's 10-10 from another region?

[Army Defense]

Ok now we're really getting down to the crux of the problem...how do you propose NCRHA should do that, sight unseen, every year?

You may just "know" that those teams are better, but how do you justify leaving an 18-2 team home and taking one that's 10-10 from another region?

beacause we're army.. duh.. we always get what we want... :p

[bobraynor]

The reason it is such a difficult process is because, unlike in the NHL, we don't get 7 games to decide who moves on. If a #12 team rises up and beats a #1 team in a 7 game series, then yes, that team deserves to move on....but in a win or go home situation, upsets are more likely to happen and much more devastating (i.e. March Madness)

I think you play the regular season FOR the playoffs (you can only play who's on your schedule), and due to all the restrictions we currently face as a league (mostly money and time) the round robins, combined with a certain selection process is the way to go. It's not quite standard hockey playoff format, and not quite BCS, but it's the fairest and probably the best solution the league has until each school alots more money to the clubs or until roller hockey is recognized by the NCAA as more than just a club sport.

If things change from year to year, that to me means that the BoD is making adjustments based on past experience to make the playoffs and Nationals selections an easier and fairer process to all teams.

But honestly, the bottom line is...keep winning and you have nothing to worry about.

[Duquesne12]

It's always nice to pop on here and see that guys are trashing teams. Stay classy like that. Let me tell you about Duquesne's season last year. We had 5 injuries in the first half of the season to full time ecrha guys. We sucked it up called up guys who had no buissness being on the same floor with half the guys that are in the ECRHA. So when everyone came back and was healthy second semester we played our hearts out and essentially finished the second semester with something like an 8-1-1 record beating really good hockey teams, like Neumann for example. Then we show up at regionals and win a shootout with Wentworth, 9-8. I know damn well that at the end of the season for ecrha, that none of the DII teams wanted to see us. we get put in a bracket with eventual runner up USLM and played 2 outstanding periods of hockey and we're in a hard fought game, i think it was like 4-2 or something. we wont talk abotu the third period of that game. Then we played Nevada, another team that had won DII maybe like two or three years before and fought hard and never really felt like we were out of the game. Finally we tied hofstra on a last second goal by all star dino virone. IN the elimination round, we saw UTdallas, who went back and fourth with and lost 9-6 with and empty netter and goal scored with 20 seconds after we had all given up. Moral of the story, yea we went 0-3-1 but i dont think there were teams that could have "easily beaten Duquesne." If that one win got us into nationals, we deserved to be there. For the record, teams like Cornell deserve to go to nationals and get high seeds at regionals. I dont care if they played 18 games vs. monkeys, you still have to show up for every game and play to win. If you haven't noticed by now, anyteam can beat any other team on any other day, thats the best thing about the game. Stop trashing teams with your mouth and just play the game with a little respect.

All that being said, ECRHA has the strongest division II teams out of everyone, end of story, no argument, game over, i dont wanna hear about the stats.

[MBurke]

Having seen both I think GPCIHL and ECRHA would be a good match top-to-bottom.

[Drexel63]

It's always nice to pop on here and see that guys are trashing teams. Stay classy like that. Let me tell you about Duquesne's season last year. We had 5 injuries in the first half of the season to full time ecrha guys. We sucked it up called up guys who had no buissness being on the same floor with half the guys that are in the ECRHA. So when everyone came back and was healthy second semester we played our hearts out and essentially finished the second semester with something like an 8-1-1 record beating really good hockey teams, like Neumann for example. Then we show up at regionals and win a shootout with Wentworth, 9-8. I know damn well that at the end of the season for ecrha, that none of the DII teams wanted to see us. we get put in a bracket with eventual runner up USLM and played 2 outstanding periods of hockey and we're in a hard fought game, i think it was like 4-2 or something. we wont talk abotu the third period of that game. Then we played Nevada, another team that had won DII maybe like two or three years before and fought hard and never really felt like we were out of the game. Finally we tied hofstra on a last second goal by all star dino virone. IN the elimination round, we saw UTdallas, who went back and fourth with and lost 9-6 with and empty netter and goal scored with 20 seconds after we had all given up. Moral of the story, yea we went 0-3-1 but i dont think there were teams that could have "easily beaten Duquesne." If that one win got us into nationals, we deserved to be there. For the record, teams like Cornell deserve to go to nationals and get high seeds at regionals. I dont care if they played 18 games vs. monkeys, you still have to show up for every game and play to win. If you haven't noticed by now, anyteam can beat any other team on any other day, thats the best thing about the game. Stop trashing teams with your mouth and just play the game with a little respect.

All that being said, ECRHA has the strongest division II teams out of everyone, end of story, no argument, game over, i dont wanna hear about the stats.


Wow...

um take a breath.... then re-read what was said... you pretty much reiterated my point.... you beat a good team at regionals... taking you to nationals over a team with a better record, and 16 games worth of experience which would most likely give that team (Wentworth) a better chance at winning games at Nationals....

no one is talking trash here..... you were a sleeper at nats. you gave a couple of very good teams a run, and it didn't end up working out...

I meant no trash talk within that post... you earned a bid fair and square and you did well with that bid; far more than my team could had done considering our 0-4 record entering regionals...

however, you cannot deny the fact that there were other teams (wentworth, for example) who were better suited for a run at the national championship based on both regular season and early playoff play.... the dukes, in my opinion, were lucky to get there... Wentworth would have had a better chance of winning games....

Again, no disrespect meant, but I think everyone feared Wentworth more than you last season, despite you beating Neuman... I know we did...

[RustyPipes27]

Duquesne is a joke.

[Patn Lawton]

I give the Dukes a lot of credit for their accomplishments last year. They worked hard and went further than they ever had before. I also know for sure that Wentworth had final-four potential last year at nats. Lets try to keep things positive here and be proud of our ECRHA teams. Negative posts are complaining is partially why the forums got shut down before. If you don't like a team for one reason or another thats fine, but theres no reason to try to humiliate them online.

[hockeyplayer1]

DU-How can you say that the ECRHA has the best DII teams out there, no questions asked? Take a look at the independent rankings-4 out of the top 10 teams are from the GPCIHL. You say dont look at the stats, don't argue, etc. but i think you're saying that just because you know that the stats will show this. There's 4, maybe even 5 teams from the GPCIHL that will hold there own at nationals.

[Patn Lawton]

DU-How can you say that the ECRHA has the best DII teams out there, no questions asked? Take a look at the independent rankings-4 out of the top 10 teams are from the GPCIHL. You say dont look at the stats, don't argue, etc. but i think you're saying that just because you know that the stats will show this. There's 4, maybe even 5 teams from the GPCIHL that will hold there own at nationals.

I am glad they bumped it from 16 to 20 teams this year, because the last two years the GP region said they had atleast one if not two more teams that can hang with their teams that did make nationals. It is pointless to make claims about what region has the best teams, that will be taken care of at nationals.

I think what DU may have been getting at is that the ECRHA has a lot of depth b/c we consistently have 16-18 teams every season in D2.

[William Bourque]

with no cross-region games played this season between any DII teams, it's hard to say anything about depth of one region versus the next...

teams change year to year, so it's really hard to judge...

the only thing we can look at is the past years, and the only thing that we can show is that the teams are even...

Now...If an ACC/Big Ten Challenge type thing was set up...and the teams from the ECRHA went against those of the GP for instance...

I think the top 5 games could be 2-2-1...

However, i think once you get down to the 6-?? teams, i think the ECRHA has a strong edge...

my opinion of this is based off of how many 10-1, 11-1 games there are versus the teams ranked below 5th place...however...

Millersville is currently the #12 team in the ECRHA...and they have played the top team in the ECRHA Neumann to 6-3 and 9-3 games...

and then to turn it around...Western Illinois has be mercied (per GP rules) in every game they played against the top teams in the GP...

this is where the "OUR DII IS BETTER THAN YOURS" comes out every season...It's not neccessarily that we have better teams, its just that from top to bottom, i think most people would agree the East would probably take that challenge...

[CRadigan]

I also agree that having 20 DII teams is great. Like Burke said, it's hard to not give a bid to a team that has a great record like SHSU even though that region hasn't proven to be as strong in the past. For the past two years we (Truman) have been "on the bubble" even though we were pretty sure we were better than a few of the teams selected and we got alternate bids both years. Our record wasn't as good, but we beat national caliber teams. Adding 4 teams will allow the selection committee to pick both the teams w/ great records and a few teams whose records may not reflect the quality of the team due to playing in a tough region.

Now if only they had picked 20 teams last year....and the year before;)

[Patn Lawton]

I also agree that having 20 DII teams is great. Like Burke said, it's hard to not give a bid to a team that has a great record like SHSU even though that region hasn't proven to be as strong in the past. For the past two years we (Truman) have been "on the bubble" even though we were pretty sure we were better than a few of the teams selected and we got alternate bids both years. Our record wasn't as good, but we beat national caliber teams. Adding 4 teams will allow the selection committee to pick both the teams w/ great records and a few teams whose records may not reflect the quality of the team due to playing in a tough region.

Now if only they had picked 20 teams last year....and the year before;)

I admire your patience and positive attitude towards the situation. Brockport has been to nationals the last two years. However the year before, Brockport had finished 4th in regionals which normally guarantees a great shot at getting a bid. Due to scheduling errors it didn't happen but we kept our heads up and continued to play hard and finally made it. It looks like Truman is well on its way to nationals this year, good luck!

[RustyPipes27]

Okay, I admit that Duquesne isn't a joke and that they're a solid team. But I also admit that it's fun watching them get angry on the message board! :cool:

[Duquesne12]

yea i probably shouldnt have ranted but i dont frequent the forum as much as others and when i do go on at 4:00am and read about how we were such a cake walk last year and an easy win for teams this year it makes me a bit perturbed

[Leaferguy]

So...

Why are we arguing about who's better on the MB? I'm guessing (and hoping) that anyone of import with regard to the bids process won't care.

It's all fun and games until someone pokes an eye out. Chill a little.

[Patn Lawton]

Quiet Brennan stop stealing my mediation!

[William Bourque]

Quiet Brennan stop stealing my mediation!


its all Pat has these days...dont take it away from him

[Leaferguy]

I need more internet fights

Drexel sucks and is a bunch of muppets

http://www.listentome.net/mupdrum.gif

[KillinAintShe]

Duquesne is a joke.


Not as much of joke as Maine (or at least Maine teams from the past) Do they still bring chainsaws to games or bong red bulls or better yet show up in their underwear?

[KillinAintShe]

nobody ever answered my question: what happened to the texas teams.

[William Bourque]

nobody ever answered my question: what happened to the texas teams.


http://www.schl.org/


they are there, they just aren't on the NCRHA website

[uconnhockey1]

Couple of things...

I think it is unfair to blame the differences in playoff scheduling every year on ECRHA because there are too many teams joining and leaving, and on top of that, it is very hard to book facilities. Creating a 16 game schedule was probably hard enough as it is. Last year with 18 games was fine too, but the structure of the league changed, and the braintrust of the league decided that's what it should be. So be it.

As for what the fella from Penn State said, I see where you are coming from in your complaints, and no, it is not very fair. I think it would be more of an issue if let's say we lost to all the teams in your division and still snuck in. Army has gotten a lot better, and I think they are way better than their record shows. I know we almost lost to them earlier in the year, and really had to regroup and play well to beat them in Feasterville.

That being said, there is no real solution of scheduling. You can sit there and say, oh, well you should let the teams who do bad have the easiest schedules. Well, if that was the case, then a bad team this year would have played Rhode Island several times, because they did not do well at all last year. Is that fair either? There just won't be a logical answer, and every year a team that "could" make regionals will get booted out. Before I got here, UConn teams were stuck in a division with Northeastern, RIT, and URI. Three, four years ago, Northeastern was a powerhouse, RIT was RIT, and URI was a national power. Were the UConn teams at that time great? No, not by any means. Maybe worthy of more regionals berths than they had? Maybe. Every year, someone is going to complain about a regionals berth, and until we find a solution that everyone will agree on, we just have to make do with what we have.

As far as Maine, I do not believe I have seen them this year with the chainsaws, dead fish, funnels, and Red Bulls as before. I can't say that Maine teams are particularly week either, they always have strong teams each year.

I think this year regionals will be really strong, and I think playing three round robin games will eliminate a lot of "surprise" teams, and that it will be harder to get a regionals birth this year in ECRHA. Last year, I felt that the format allowed for more of a chance for upsets, and it certainly did just that.

Good luck to all this year.

Jesse C.
UConn Hockey

[JLambertUMSL]

I need more internet fights

Drexel sucks and is a bunch of muppets

http://www.listentome.net/mupdrum.gif


That reminds me of RCULBERTSON's Oscar the Grouch picture last year, posted a few weeks before Nationals, the one that said "UMSL SUCKS" in the cartoon bubble.

He posted it because everyone was being too nice....someone had said the board needed some "trash talk." :D

What happened to him anyway?

He was entertaining. He needs to come back.

[JLambertUMSL]

...because of one loss in the RR or one fluke loss in the elimination bracket.

(emphasis added.)

No such thing. :)

[William Bourque]

That reminds me of RCULBERTSON's Oscar the Grouch picture last year, posted a few weeks before Nationals, the one that said "UMSL SUCKS" in the cartoon bubble.

He posted it because everyone was being too nice....someone had said the board needed some "trash talk." :D

What happened to him anyway?

He was entertaining. He needs to come back.


i sent him an IM with what you said...maybe he will find his way on here

[GoRangrHky]

UPDATES (with predictions from this upcoming weekend included)

Group A 1 6 7 12
Neumann
Drexel
Maine
SUNY Brockport

Group B 2 5 8 11
SUNY Stony Brook
Hofstra
Cornell
Temple

Group C 3 4 9 10
Albany
West Chester
Vermont
Shippensburg

ooooh that Group A is gonna be a DOOZY. If the right Maine and Brockport teams show up to play (or even Millersville on the chance that B'Port drops the ball this weekend), there's gonna be some gooooooooood games. Especially after that 5-4 Neumann win over Drexel earlier this month, I can't wait to see...

[Leaferguy]

I'm going to be sleeping at the rink. I want to see every game, especially some of those pool C games.

[Duquesne12]

Rculbertson waits tables at the olive garden in cranberry PA. I recommend the endless pasta bowl. He will be back with a vengence i'm sure though possibly next year....

Hey Bourque, Can you get me the status on #21 Dan Scaarschmidt we don't know how many games hes suspended for, i'm pretty sure its atleast one cause he got an EJ. I'm also fairly positive our goalie is still suspended two more games also, but hes worthless and annoying so if you know his status for sure that be great to know too. Just to prove how worthless he is, i'm going to step between the pipes and shut out pat lawton....

*note i said i was just shutting down lawton, not necessarily the rest of bport

[MAmato]

Rculbertson waits tables at the olive garden in cranberry PA. I recommend the endless pasta bowl. He will be back with a vengence i'm sure though possibly next year....

Hey Bourque, Can you get me the status on #21 Dan Scaarschmidt we don't know how many games hes suspended for, i'm pretty sure its atleast one cause he got an EJ. I'm also fairly positive our goalie is still suspended two more games also, but hes worthless and annoying so if you know his status for sure that be great to know too. Just to prove how worthless he is, i'm going to step between the pipes and shut out pat lawton....

*note i said i was just shutting down lawton, not necessarily the rest of bportIf it was the thing from the Cornell game, the referees told me that no further discipline would be given when I talked to them after the game.

Also, good luck on shutting down Lawton. He's good in front of the net.

[William Bourque]

Rculbertson waits tables at the olive garden in cranberry PA. I recommend the endless pasta bowl. He will be back with a vengence i'm sure though possibly next year....

Hey Bourque, Can you get me the status on #21 Dan Scaarschmidt we don't know how many games hes suspended for, i'm pretty sure its atleast one cause he got an EJ. I'm also fairly positive our goalie is still suspended two more games also, but hes worthless and annoying so if you know his status for sure that be great to know too. Just to prove how worthless he is, i'm going to step between the pipes and shut out pat lawton....

*note i said i was just shutting down lawton, not necessarily the rest of bport



youll have to contact the league for that

[Duquesne12]

The league doesn't like to contact me back, i feel like a leper

[Patn Lawton]

The fat guy power is strong within me in front of the net. I'll buy u a gatorade after the game.

[MAmato]

I didn't get a gatorade :(

[Duquesne12]

its a large guy think amato

[Patn Lawton]

I didn't get a gatorade :(

After I saw your goalie run into the gatorade machine i was weary of it

[GoRangrHky]

DII: Top 6 teams from pool play advance. Seeds 1 and 2 get a bye. Winner of 4v5 plays Seed 1 in semis, Winner of 3v5 plays 2 in semis. Consolation game for 3rd place here, too.

Not that it matters all THAT much, but that ^ and this
http://www.ecrha.net/schedule.php?playoff_id=113&event_id=560&area=schedule don't match up. Which way are we going with it?

[Patn Lawton]

Word on the street is Antone talked Burke into taking the top 8 to advance instead of the top 6

[MBurke]

Word on the street is Antone talked Burke into taking the top 8 to advance instead of the top 6

when NCRHA decided to extend DII nationals to 20 teams rather than 16 it didn't matter as much if we moved 8 or 6 on to the elimination round.

[William Bourque]

is it friday yet?