Tour Beemers/BlueMax - Graf

[urukhai74]

I really need to get a new pair of skates, my Tour 962's are so worn out after 5 years of use. I tried the Tour RedMax, but it was way too weak, not stiff at all!

I was wondering, is the Beemer or BlueMax significantly stiffer than the RedMax?

I am thinking about converting a pair of the new G3's from Graf, but if I can save some $$$ by getting the Tours, that would be Great!

Also, when I bought the new RedMax model, I did not get to try it with a smaller wheel, like a 76mm or 72mm.

Has anyone tried to use the 76mm or 72mm on the Hu'mer?

Just curious, because while the 80mm's do help your straight line speed, they hurt your quickness and agility as a defensemen. I could not deal with that! I have always used the 68mm/76mm set up on a Hi-Lo, that has worked best for my aggressive style of skating. It hurts my top end speed, but I do not get that many opportunities to turn on the jets, so I have always chosen to be more mobile than speedy as a defensemen.

Any info appreciated! :-)

[-venom-]

I'd say be patient.... end of this month, Mission Heliums.

'nuff said. :)

*all I want for Christmas is XIHL in Vegas*

[urukhai74]

Well, I have never been able to wear a Mission skate. Far, Far too narrow and the arch support is always to far back, it digs into my heel!
I am thinking that the Tours should start to come down in price soon, but I am really tired of skating on these old boots!! If something does not give soon, I may just bite the bullet and get the GRAFS!! I tried the Nike Hi-Ho's, Roller Daddys, both had the same issue for me, the arch support was way too far back. I have a high arch and have not had any luck with Missions, Nikes, Bauers...only Tours & Grafs! Thanks for the input! :-)

[-venom-]

Then I'd say get a Red Star alloy frame and throw them on your Grafs...

That's what I did to my Mission PureFlys... absolutely love them.

*all I want for Christmas is XIHL in Vegas*

[coliseum21]

Hi,
I just wanted to help you out a little. I run the pro shop at the coliseum in Voorhees NJ, I have seen the new mission great skate Im getting them, but I have small feet. I wouldn't recommend putting any inline frame on graf boots although they are great " ice boots" I feel that the bottoms are way to soft so the inline frame sinks into the boot. your best bet for you would be the tour blue max I have talked to matt denton and chad seibel, and what i come up with is that the red max is the lower brand skate the blue max is pretty close to the beemer but more liked , and the beemer is the better of the 3 oh yea my name is Bobby if you need farther help call me at the rink at (856)-428-9393

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by coliseum21 on 09/15/04 04:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[urukhai74]

Yeah, I really like the Red Star frames! That is most likely what I will do! :-)

[urukhai74]

Appreciate the info. Yeah, I pretty much figured the BlueMax would be the better skate...much like the 962 was the best skate between it and that POS 982 Fishbone!!
I am just curious if the Hu'mer chassis will be too long, with all 76mm or 72mm wheels. There is no way I could play defense on the 80mm wheels...way too high and it puts a lot more stress on your ankles! Roller Hockey is played on a much smaller rink, quickness and sure footedness is EVERYTHING!!! When I tried the RedMax, it always felt like the boot was loose and made me feel like I had weak ankles, then I realized it was just the weaker boot combined with the much taller wheels. In regards to the Grafs, I converted a pair of 703's last year, but the 703 boot was the wrong Graf for my foot and I just sold them to a friend. I had Red Star frames put on them. When I did wear them for a while, they skated AWESOME!! I really like the stiffness mixed with the Red Star chassis. the boot would just never break in and it would rub my heel off and really squeeze my toes all the way across my foot. That was their regular fit, so I guess there wide version would better suit me. I am going to get properly sized before I spend any more $$$ on Grafs, they are not exactly cheap! I got my 703's brand new from Ebay for 165.00, they retail for $369.00. So I did not lose much, I sold them for $140.00

Maybe the BlueMax is the answer, I hope so!! I need some skates!! :-O Hehe!

[MDE3]

Just to confirm the post above..of those in the pro ranks who got to try the Beemer and the Blue Max when they first came out...they generally preferred the Blue Max. Seems like the Beemer is a little tight across the upper arch of the foot for some skaters, or maybe it's just the toung being a bit thin.

[coliseum21]

Your right i think the tounge is thinner on the blue max. I wore matty's blue max's to see if i wanted to get them but I have really narrow feet. So im going with the mission he950s, but i also noticed that he had 76mm wheels and put 72mm on the ends for mobility he is a defensemen if that helps. later

[urukhai74]

Thanks! :-)

[urukhai74]

Yeah, it's always something with Tour since the G Series came out!! They cannot seem to get the entire skate right!
Thanks!

[MDE3]

Actually the Blue Max is the stiffest skate Tour makes..and as far as the height goes on the chassis, well when I mounted the Hum'ers on a set of Hi Ho's I actually put the original HIHO chassis with wheels mounted side by side with the Hum'ers with wheels mounted..the height above the floor was identical to the bottom of the front sole plates, and slightly lower at the rear sole plate of the Hum'ers!!!!!

This to say that your impression of height on the Hum'ers is more illusionary..except if you are comparing it to the height of a 68/72 set up..which would be lower than anything else. I know everyone has personal preference in their set ups, and of course what makes you feel most comfortable is what you should use..it's just that those I know who have used the Hum'er long enough to get used to it, have never wanted to go back.... The agility issue is usually only raised by those who haven't used it.

Switching from a 68/72 set up to all 80's may feel like too much change for you, but from what I have seen it's worth the effort to stick it out.

PS as far as Matty using 72,76,76,72 set ups on his Hum'er chassis'..he did so because he has very small feet and wore I think only a size six skate, so he got the Hum'er with the all 76mm wheels(it's the only one small enough to fit the size six Tour skate). He changed the front and rear wheels to 72 mm for the rocker effect, as he was switching back and forth between ice and inline pretty regularly.

[urukhai74]

THANKS!

[vitaminchi]

i use a graf 703 ice boot and a sensor chassis. i also used to use a 703 boot with a kuzak split chassis...both awesome setups. as for you saying that the 703 didn't fit your foot, i'm pretty sure the new G series is the same cut as the 700 series. not sure, but i did check them out when the graf vendor came to northeastern. awesome material. as for the sole of the graf boot being too soft for a chassis, i dunno, but i'm gonna have to disagree on that...anyways, graf skates are awesome...but did you check out the new synthesis skates? those are pretty freakin sweet.

just my 2 cents.

[MDE3]

I know my son used converted Graf's for years..both 703's and 704's and had no problem....but he is not a big guy either..155 - 160 lbs. max. I know whenever I switched my own chassis to an ice skate(I am "significantly heavier"/wtimages/icons/smile.gif), like a mid range CCM or Bauer skate, which had the PVC outsoles....I did have the problem of the chassis sole plates digging into the ball of my foot once the skate warmed up and the outsole softened.

[vitaminchi]

i'm a bigger guy than your son, and didn't have a problem with either of my Graf setups. i'm 6'0 and about 215-220lbs...

[urukhai74]

I have found that the Bauer Vapor XX's and Vapor XI are just what I have been looking for!! Very comfy, but also still stiff!! I am having a pair switched out to inline next week, I will post my findings on the setup. I am using a RED STAR chassis. I wish I could find a Sensor, but they are all gone!! :-( Dam those Mission guys!!!

[urukhai74]

Yeah, the bottoms of the Grafs are a bit thin, but if you put a thicker insole into the boot, that alleviates that problem, at least for me it did. I am 6'1" 210 lbs. The 703 is for a narrow heel and narrow toe, I wish I had done more research when I purchased those skates! I ended up selling them to a friend! The 705 is for a wider heel and toe. I am converting a pair of Bauer Vapor XI's to inline next week. That is one comfy boot, but still very stiff like I like them!!

[urukhai74]

The Graf boots are designed for a Great many different types of feet. I have a wide heel, high volume arch and a wide toe width. The 703 killed me in those areas, almost wore the skin right off my heel!! The boot overall was Great though, I really liked the way they performed!! If I knew then what I know now, I would have gotten a pair of 705's!! The 705 is for a wider heel, toe and volume. I just cannot afford $500 right now for a pair of skates!! I am switching out a pair of Bauer Vapor XI's. Very nice boot, very comfy and only about $200.

[MDE3]

My son just got a set of Beemers...and the toung has been thickened since they first came out apparently. They are now his new "leader" in his "most comfortable skate ever tried" evaluation....absolutely no pain or blisters right out of the box into a 2 hour practice. At least for his foot shape they seem to fit him perfectly. The Nike HiHo was the previous leader and also a very comfortable skate, but the Beemers seemed to beat even those skates for comfort.

The Nike HiHO's are close to being worn through at the sides of the boot from scraping along the floors when in a hard turn...after only about 7 - 8 months usage. The Beemers have a plastic wear protection right over that spot, so I feel they should be a pretty durable skate at least from that viewpoint.

He was already used to and loved the Hum'er chassis as we had converted the HiHo's to the Hum'ers a few months ago...so there was not much to "get used to" for him.

Having been on Rink Rats' for most of the last 2 years, he was pleasantly surprised that the Dynasty Pro's seemed to be equal in performance to the Rink Rats...time will tell on durability.

[urukhai74]

So Tour has finally figured out that the tongue on their new skates were waffer thin? This is news!! I would be using the BlueMax right now, if they have indeed addressed the tongue issue!! Still not a Humer fan though, way to tall a wheel for me, I prefer the 68mm/76mm Hi-Lo set up. Different strokes! :-)

[MDE3]

Actually even switching from the HiHo's to the Beemers for my son there was a diffrent feel..although they both had the same chassis(we had mounted a Hum'er chassis to the HiHo's). The pitch was different enough to create a difference in feel. The &quot;taller wheel&quot; actually does not result in the skate being any higher above the floor vs the 72/80 hi/lo's..in fact the Beemer is slightly lower at the heel but the same at the front as the HiHo's with the original oem HiLo chassis.

Most that we know who switch may need one or two uses to get used to the feel, but once they do there is no looking back. (even though I know I cannot convince YOU lol)

Yes the earlier skates apparently had some lace bite complaints, and so I hear they added some padding to the toung. The Beemer's low profile shape happens to really suit my son's skating style and what he is looking for in terms of feel....he likes a very flexible skate. But like you say..to each his/her own. To him they are the best performing most comfortable skates yet....but he hasn't tried them all either.

[jayrock]

Hi MDE3,

Why did you guys decide to go with the Beemers instead of the Blue Max? I remember you previously indicating that you thought/heard that the latter was the superior skate.

Thanks.

[MDE3]

Basically the Beemers are a bit lower cut in some sizes than the Blue Max, and not quite as stiff, and as it turns out, that combination seems to suit my son's skating style perfectly. That he ended up with the Beemers was more luck than design however lol. He will be trying out the Blue Max's from a friend when he gets them...we will see the difference. The Beemers were &quot;available&quot; in his size when he needed them. His HiHo chassis came loose due to a couple of rivets actually rotting through right before a tournament. (Note in fairness to Nike that these were not oem original rivets.)

I was trying to make a point more in general in one of my posts that the &quot;highest end skate&quot; may not necessarily be the best or even the most expensive skate that a given manufacturer makes(referring to their costs)...not just referring to Tour skates..not sure if that was the post you are referring to though.

I also know quite a few of the top pro's prefer the Blue Max skate..because it suits their foot/skating style. That is not to say that there are not others who prefer the Beemer. Since they modified the toung on the Beemer fairly soon after they introduced it, it may also be gaining some ground.

The way the lace pattern is set up, it tends to be a little flatter than other skates at the top two/three eyelets (many skates turn almost vertical with the lacing pattern above the skate's flex point)Hence with the thinner toung, and lower flatter lacing profile the lace pattern on the Beemers put quite a bit of pressure on the upper foot of skaters who like to preload their ankle in a deep knee bend. The thicker toung has solved this. Actually the Beemer lacing pattern looks more like a speed skate than a hockey skate. For some this works better than others.

Once he tries the Blue Max's he might change his mind about which one he likes better lol, but for the moment he is convinced that the Beemer is the most comfortable/best performing skate he has ever used.

[urukhai74]

I had tried the Red Max, but they were way too flimsy for my weight and skating style. The tongue on those were wafer thin, but the Bauer Vapors X, XV & XX are great and I am having a pair of the X's switched out as we speak.

With the lack of support in the Red Max, the 80mm wheels made me feel very unstable and even though you are not any higher than a Hi-Lo, the wheel itself is still taller than my 68/76 setup and it just felt way too unstable for me.

I think these Vapors are going to work out REAL nice though!!

[jayrock]

I'll be very interested to hear your comparison of the Beemers and Blue Max. I used to wear the 962 but they were too wide for my narrow heel. The Beemers and Blue Max have a narrow width option however which may work for me.

[MDE3]

Actually the Nike HiHo's are basically the same boot as the Vapor XII's(some cosmetic differences and a vented toe cap being the primary differences), and they were certainly a comfortable skate. The only problem we had was they didn't really last too long...they wore through on both sides of the ball of the foot from scraping the floor within about 7 months of use.

[urukhai74]

That's what I thought too, but I was proven wrong. The inside of the boot felt nothing like the Nikes and the footbed or insole was so much more comfortable. The Vapor X was just right for me, but I tried on the XV & XX as well, they felt just like the X. The Nikes arch and ankle support was just not in the correct place for my ankles and arches and they were very uncomfortable for me.

[urukhai74]

I LOVE my 962's, but they are just worn out now! Very flimsy, no longer stiff...but what can you expect after 4+ years of use and a lot of hockey!!!

Just for fun, we calculated how many League games I have played with my 962's over the past 4+ years.

Man...I have never really stopped and looked at how much I play!! 2 Leagues for 4 years straight and then 4 Leagues for the last 2 of those 4 years!!

Not counting Tournaments or pick up hockey, I have played in 325+ League games during the past 4+ years!!

That is a lot of wear and tear on a pair of skates!!

[webster]

the g3 is a fancy 703, ive worn both, if the 703 wasnt right for you neither will the g3 be