View Full Version : Forfeit loss with 17 seconds left??????
02-25-2003, 05:01 PM
Ok, let me know what you all think of this....
In our game last night, everything was going fine. We were winning pretty good and the game was clean for the most part. We were up 6-4 with 17 seconds remaining. An opposing player came up to me after thinking I slashed him and high sticked me in the head, of which I mostly blocked. As he skated a way, my teammate gave him a little shot to which he retaliated and then they were both called with penalties.
As we were going to take the faceoff, the other ref blows the whistle, skates to our bench, and yells toward a friend of ours who is on the bench. He plays for another team, but he was there supporting us. The ref claims that he said something like "it's a free-for-all" and without any warning, said for him to get off the bench, and then called the game, making us forfeit and the other team getting the win. The guy on the bench said something like that, but not yelling at the ref or actually trying to get anyone to fight, he was just amazed of the lack of calls. So after playing an entire game, having a 2-goal lead with 17 seconds remaining, we were assessed a forfeit loss because of the referee. Does this sound right?????
02-25-2003, 05:45 PM
Geez, I've got about six different, very lengthy replies to this one...let's see how short I can keep it...
Due to the time on the clock, the referee certainly, indeed, obviously, had the option to play out the remainder of the game...
He chose to make a different decision, however.
Now here's the question right back in your lap (or at your head, take your pick):
"What was the ref's reason for calling the game at this point?"
The question is obviously rhetorical, I think you guys need to be a little more self-analytical about your problems...instead of minimalizing and deflecting, you and your guys (yeah, and the other team, too) maybe need to all look in the mirror and take responsibility for your actions...
Hey, I wasn't there...but...what you are reporting on this one is all something that you and your guys had control over, and deliberately chose to give away that control...bummer that the referee reacted as he did, but you guys gave him the permission to choose the decision he did.
There, that wasn't too long...
Technically because the individual was a fan and not affiliated with the team other than as a supporter, you should not have been held responsible for his actions if he was not actually on the bench - but say standing behind it or near it. If he was actually on the bench - then the ref could not be asked to differentiate between his actions and those of your team - because you allowed an unauthorized supporter in your bench area you become responsible for his actions - just as you would a team member. If the comments were percieved as an attempt to instigate a brawl, thereby threatening the safety of the other players and the referees, the ref was within his rights to take drastic action. It is very difficult from the floor to determine the "nuances" of intent where potentially encitefull comments are being made.
Similar though maybe more humorous story. When I was coaching our 15/16 team at the N'East regionals, we were fighting for position in the top 6 of 12 teams to make the club level at Nationals in a one goal game.
The game had a lot of hooking obstruction not called, and as a "speed" team the non calls were seen by me to penalize us more than the ops. As a result I made some comments about the need for corrective vision in the general direction of the one ref who I felt was ignoring things the most. I recieved a polite warning for my suggestion. I toned down to avoid a bench penalty.
Our goalie had played a fantastic first half, much better than he had shown in practice that week. Part of the reason he showed so bad during the week was that his glasses (which he wore under his mask) kept getting knocked off because they were too big to fit properly under the goalie mask.
So as he was coming to the bench area for the half break, I asked him if he had gotten new glasses to which he gave me the thumbs up. Immediately the young ref who had warned me sped over to the bench - gave us a bench minor and and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, as well as tossing me from the game. I was laughing so hard I had trouble mustering all the indignance that the moment called for.
Here was a clear case of a ref being so over sensitized to criticism that he issued punishment that was totally unmerited and could not be convinced of the innocence of the remark. After the game - the ref in chief for the tournament - who new me and my toung, told me I just got what I deserved for all the other abuse I hadn't been called for. We finally convinced the young and sensitive ref of the humour of his reaction long after the game was done (we lost).
02-25-2003, 07:46 PM
Sounds to me like you and your team got jobbed.
02-25-2003, 08:49 PM
The guy was on our bench, so I understand that he's our "responsibility", but the thing about it that baffles us is that he wasn't yelling it out, or at the official. He just was being sarcastic and saying it aloud so the team could hear him on the bench. The rest of the team wasn't yelling or arguing at the official either!
It's a shame, because even in the next game, that same referee threw someone out of the game and gave him a match penalty for something that wasn't even a fight or nearly as bad. He obviously was having a bad day and took it out on all of us.
02-25-2003, 08:52 PM
I was upset also because of the time on the clock. The game was pretty much over already, and he totally changed the outcome.
The ref said his reason was that "they guy was instigating a brawl and I don't want that to happen". But if no one was fighting, and everyone was lined up to faceoff and not yelling back and forth, then a brawl is not gonna happen, so it was not necessary. I would understand if all our guys were yelling and screaming, but they wern't doing that until he made the final call of course!
Thanks for your thoughts!
02-25-2003, 09:22 PM
You are right about the bottom line...I agree that the outcome was just plain unnecessary...
I can assure you that, as both a player and as a referee, I have a lengthy list of "ya know, I probably shoulda done that one differently..." situations in my past...I hope you would agree with me that it would be fair for me say that both you and the ref can add this one to your lists...
keep on skating...
02-25-2003, 10:43 PM
Thats what I thought too.
02-26-2003, 12:59 AM
I will keep you guys posted of the outcome. I'll be talking with the hockey directors, guy on the bench, and referee on Wednesday night. Thanks for the support!
I understand that's pretty frustrating - and if it was obviously directed as a comment intended only to the bench it seems pretty shaky grounds. As you well know - refs get pretty sensitive sometimes and as humans, can let their egos get in the way of their judgement - if anyone had been needling him throughout the game - it may have been his "payback" time. He may only have been looking for the least excuse - as with the example I mentioned before. Doesn't excuse the action. The only legitimate reason for closing down the game and calling a forfeit would be the possibility of "preventing a dangerous situation" to continue and erupt. And a forfeit would only be called if your team was seen as a continuous instigator of the "dangerous situation". Prior to this being done - the ref is required to warn you of what will happen if you continue this behaviour. The only time this might not happen if there was a bench clearing event which required the refs undivided attention. Then after the event - a forfeit might be issued if your team was percieved as the clear instigator.
03-01-2003, 07:31 PM
I have never seen a call like that in all of my years of playing hockey. I have totally lost all respect for the referee of that game. We work everyday to afford to play in a good competitive hockey league and we have hot headed referee that can't seem to keep his personal feelings out of it. To have our gamed forfeited for such a stupid reason is just uncalled for. Has he ever heard of a Bench Minor???? guess not.
03-01-2003, 08:48 PM
I am not saying the ref was right, in fact I am already on record in this thread that the call was unnecessary,
what about the mouth on the bench, who, just because there is only 17 seconds left, deliberately acts like a jackass, knowng there is little the referee can do...
That person has no respect for the game, and deserves no break whatsoever, he has tanked it, and believes he can get away with any act no matter how disrespectful...
frankly, if some "friend" was on my bench mouthing off about the game to anybody (it doesn't have to directed toward the floor), I would respond to him as though he were still my friend, but I would be explaining to him what an a-hole he was, and he could parade it back over to the spectator side and grow up...
Oh, boy, dude, now look how you got me on the soapbox, again...
sorry, the ref's overkill was wrong, so was the jerk of a friend, and you don't excuse his stupidity by minimizing it...
03-01-2003, 10:54 PM
Somebody always post something to make you get on your soapbox, huh Danny :-) lol
03-01-2003, 11:58 PM
looking around, I seem to have a collection... soapboxes of various sizes and shapes...they fit together, like those sets of little kids toys that fit inside each other...sorry for jumping up on top of them so frequently...
I'm sure you keep them there for "mental step ups" - never knowing when a new crusade will need you in top form :)))
03-02-2003, 06:11 PM
we all have to get up on that soapbox every once and awhile to "preach", I think we all do it a little too much sometimes, me espically. lol
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