View Full Version : Unfair blame
02-11-2003, 07:35 PM
In my house league championship we were leading by 4 goals with a little over 2 minutes left when one of our players takes a major penalty for language (it is strictly enforced). Our coach decides to put our 3 girls out to kill the powerplay, to make a long story short we lost the game by one goal. Nearly everyone blamed the girls. I can't say I didn't blame them too because I did, After they left for home I heard some of the other players talking about how if the coach hadn't put all girls out we would have won the game and the championship and that women should "get their own damn league", however 2 of these girls are better defensivley than the guys who were complaining. And it was a guy who took that stupid penalty.
I support my coach in his decision, but was wondering if had he put out guys and we had lost would there be so much blame placed upon them?
02-11-2003, 08:34 PM
Blame still would had been places on the guys but the fact is that the girls recived much more blame than the guys would had. Its kind of sad, that it is true, but in my opinion you guys lost as a team, not because of the girls, same would be true if guys were placed out on the penalty. Thats just my opinion though.
02-11-2003, 08:44 PM
I blamed the goalie..he should have had all but 1, in my opinio. But you are right we did lose as a team. And for all the goalies who are thinking, "typical forward, blame the goalie," I blame myself for not scoring enough too.
02-11-2003, 08:50 PM
The goalie is always the scapegoat, I feel bad for them, thats the reason I never became a goalie. Because as a foward I can just say stuff like, nobody passed it to me, I didnt get enough minutes, the defense was on me etc. The goalie still has a few excuses but not near as many.
02-11-2003, 08:56 PM
I am saddened by the attitude...
bottom line is that "win it as a team; lose it as a team," concept mentioned above...
I promised my wife I wouldn't get started on all the crap that my daughter has had to put up with, veen from her teammates and parents, and even at Nationals...
02-11-2003, 09:00 PM
If your daughter is good enough to play at nationals, there is no way she should be taking extra blame beacuase of her gender. That is unfair Danny.
02-11-2003, 09:01 PM
I know some goalies with many excuses, such as
Pads won't slide on sportcourt
Guy all alone in front
Forwards didn't come back.
But there is no excuse for such a sexist view, I am considering switching teams.
02-11-2003, 09:27 PM
aaah, what the heck...
Here's one...Caitlin sprints to the offensive corner, beating out a guy who is three years older than her, turns the puck against two opponents, sends it backhand to a teammate coming down the slot, who buries it for a relatively easy goal. The (male) teammate literally ignores Caitlin, goes through his showboating routine, then turns back to the red line and high fives his other (male) teammate, who, of course, had nothing to do with the play...
Story two...Nationals, round robin game three...gotta win this one to avoid having to play against the first seed in the playoff round...we're up by two with 6 minutes to go...Caitlin, who is recognized (finally, this season at least) as THE premier defensive player, regardless of gender, in her age group, plays the final six minutes 'cause the coach (me) knows what she can do...with no conference, she proceeds to play the most solid 6 straight minutes of defense I have ever seen, perfectly goalside, eliminating any threat in the slot...the other team actually got 3 shots off in that last six minutes, not a single one of which was on goal...frankly, Caitlin completely shut them down. She did this, making solid, defenisve tactical decisions, even when being screamed at by our own parents in the stands to "chase after the loose pucks..." After the game, I was criticized (in my coaching capacity) for playing her the final six minutes, which excluded other players from playing time, just (one mother actually said this)"because she is your daughter."
Oh, well...you asked...
This season, three co-ed tournament teams have asked Caitlin to play with them, including the two that didn't win a single game in regionals last year...in compiling this season's stats, in all the youth divisions combined, Zack had 32 assists, Caitlin had 29, Alan had 28...nobody else had over 20. Finally, just this very season, everybody is starting to recognize around here that, not only are girls just as good as the guys, but when it comes to tourney teams, you gotta have a couple of these girls, or you ain't got the best team...
that's enough of the soapbox...thanks! for listening...
02-11-2003, 09:31 PM
Hey, you probably don't want to do that...
The idiots you reported on probably are okay guys, they have reacted to a problem STUPIDLY! Doesn't mean they are stupid, but their behavior sure is. Psychologists tell us to view the behavior as seperate from the person.
Those guys need someone such as yourself to help re-direct their reactive responses...stick around, and next time, be part of the solution...and it sounds like you are already doing that...
02-11-2003, 09:44 PM
I was just wondering if these girls had anything to do with
getting you to the championship game????
Win as a team loose as a team.
02-11-2003, 09:45 PM
I just talked to my coach before reading this post and he told me that he would talk with the players.
My first team that I played on that was non house and a different age was a co-ed team in a co-ed beginners league, I was 8 at the time and I learned that we all start out the same, relativley clueless, the ones who acepted me ont eh team the most were the women and I still see some of them frequently playing in mens leagues. Not just playing but playing well.
Thats why it really gets on my nerves when such sexish occurs on teams, plus they are cute. /wtimages/icons/wink.gif
02-11-2003, 09:48 PM
As for your second story when I was younger my dad coached my team,and I've seen it happen to others, when you coach your kid you will always be accused of favoritism. Sometimes it's whats best for the team to put your kid out. Parents just don't understand.
02-11-2003, 09:50 PM
People can be so ignorant sometimes.
02-11-2003, 09:51 PM
One scored the tying goal in regulation in the semis and set up the winner in overtime of the sme game. Makes it that much more incredible.
02-11-2003, 10:22 PM
I agree with both statements ;-)
02-11-2003, 10:52 PM
I thiny women hockey players get blamed unfairly. Its not fair but it happens. I have palyed with a few that are good hockey players and cute. The part on the goaltenders I can relate to because i play goal. I have taken the blame and have recieved it. I have had some of the teams I play for tell me its not my fault. The only problem I have with some girl players is they go a little over board and think they can do anything they want to anyone. Guys do that to and I think they are all a little wacko.
02-12-2003, 01:35 AM
I'm a female skater and play in a lot of men's leagues (these are men's leagues, not kids leagues, so, while sometimes they don't act like it, there is a higher maturity level). I've never had a guy complain about having me on a team or in the league (unless they were complaining that I was getting too rough in the corners.) I realize that its not fair that women can play in men's league but not the other way around - so I don't ask for any special favors from the guys. Best thing a girl can do on the court is play as guylike as possible - don't whine or expect any special treatment on the court, but don't let 'em knock you around and get away with it either.
And when all else fails, a little flirting can go a long way ; )
If your daughter can play the last six minutes and play it effectively, she has great stamina. I am tired after a two minute shift! Hey don't let the parent crap bother you. Most parents are blind. They can only see what is best for their child and no one else's.
02-21-2003, 04:46 PM
flirting works... in high school i was in love with this girl on the other team and every time we played them she knew this and used it to her advantage... blowing kisses, pretending shes hurt and i see if shes ok just to get me out of the play... girls have more of an advantage than they think ;)
02-21-2003, 05:23 PM
You got to resist that kind of temptation on the rink. lol
02-22-2003, 10:09 PM
I had to resist the temtation once playing goal when the other team had the most gorgeous girl at the rink stand in front of me to screen me. That was tempting. As the play was going back down to our offense zone Ismacked her in the butt with my goal stick.
02-22-2003, 10:14 PM
I was at a tournament last summer, and there was a real cute girl lacing up her skates, so of course me and six other guys go and talk to her, unfortantly she was playing in the age bracket below me :-( I wish I could have a picture of our dissapointed faces, lol.
02-24-2003, 02:37 AM
It's even worse for goalies when there is a hot girl screening them when she's wearing those pants that advertise "Bilt Rite" right across the backside. Like goalies need that reminder ; )
02-24-2003, 07:14 AM
Or anything that is advertising on the backside, poor goalies ;-)
02-24-2003, 11:49 AM
Yes that does suck. We had one once when I wasn't palying girl who had the yellow smilie face guy on her pants. I think we where all distracted espically out goalie because we lost. They espically have an advantage over goalies.
02-24-2003, 03:36 PM
yeah the goales have to be, ummmm, focused ;-) lol
02-24-2003, 11:06 PM
sometimes the goaltender has something going his way. Even though we are teh last line of defense. I am only focused on one thing when that is happening.
03-16-2003, 02:28 AM
I have alluded on this board to my daughter being recognized in our local scene for her defensive ability. I saw the ability in her some time ago, but, primarily because she is a girl, and doesn't have the power component of the "offensive prowess" factor, recognition of her as a quality player has come slowly. This recognition presently comes from 1v1 confrontations she has had defensively vs. our select skilled boys in house league play.
For a couple of years now, I would observe her ability to effectively control her area of the floor. I would tell her this, and she would acknowledge my praise, but it was sorta like the "yeah, dad, thanks, but who cares" variety of acknowledgement. All the guys would be getting all these goals, they would be recognized as the advanced house league players, all Caitlin would do was keep developing her timing and skating and defensive tactical decision making skills to get better at 1-on-1 defensive ability.
But, other than the "yeah, Dad, thanks..." how to measure this, to reinforce the good performance, when nobody else sees this and tells her about it?
We have always had the ability to self-agrandize our offensive capabilities in hockey and other sports. The kid who runs to the parent immediately after the game and shouts, "Did you see my goal?" or "Hey, Mom, I scored four today!" very obviously has a concrete way to measure his performance (his offensive stats) and reinforce his self esteem.
What does the defensive player have???
Nobody ever goes home and announces with firm conviction to their parents, "Hey, Dad, I played great defense today!"
Quite by trial and error, we have hit upon a great way to reinforce good defensive effort: keep track of plus/minus!
We now have a bunch of kids, both offensive and defensive players from Peewee/up, who know how this valuable statistic relates to their ability in the game.
Our peewee division of the house league consists of 8 teams, each team roster with one "A" 12 year old player, an "A" 10 year old player, and a bunch of novice 9-12 year olds (we encourage "playing up" in the house league). Most of the time, it can come down to a 1v1 battle between two team's "A" 12 year olds. This kinda leaves the defensive specialist in the dark as to how she (or he) really performs...but not anymore.
Today, Caitlin's team lost 10-9. They came back from 3 down, but couldn't get the tieing one in the final seconds. Rather than being bummed by the loss, Caitlin had parents of both teams telling her how well she did against Tony, the A-player on the other team. Caitlin and Tony are teammates on two travel teams, and indeed, they had a bunch of 1-on-1's in which each one got the best of the other in turn.
Caitlin went +6, -2 for a net of +4. Tony had 9 of his team's 10 goals, but only twice did he score all game when Caitlin was on the floor.
In fact, Tony did most of his scoring in the second period, when Caitlin's 12 year old teammate was on the floor against Tony for all three shifts. This young man has just come over from the local ice program, where he is known as a better player. He is your typical 12 year old male who has been told how good he is most of his athletic career. He gave up 7 goals to Tony, and his line only scored 3 all day. Caitlin got 5 offensive points (2,3), and she shut Tony off for most of the game. The fact that she was +4 in a 10-9 loss was the buzz of the whole rink for about an hour after the game. She had parents of both teams tell her she played the best defensive game they had seen all season.
We note also that during the 2nd intermission, Caitlin was attempting to offer positive encouragement to her teammates, who had squandered a three goal lead to Tony's 4 goals in the final 2 minutes of the second period (we play three periods, by the way). As she was trying to encourage her teammates how to match up defensively in correct position, several of the boys on her team, apparently were rolling their eyes, etc. Another travel teammate of hers was passing the bench area and saw this. Alan stopped, and spoke to Caitlin's teammates, "If you guys don't listen to her, you're stupid. Do what she's telling you. She knows what she's talking about."
Legitimate recognition is a very cool thing...
We really recommend the use of plus/minus to give that legitimacy and positive reinforcement to defensive effort. It is really working for us!
03-16-2003, 03:02 PM
If your daughter is as great of a defensemen as you say, I find it sad that her teammates dont give her the recognition and encouragement she deserves. One of the best defensemen I have ever known for my age has played with me since I was 5, even then he loved being the one to stop the oppositions offense. And since my team almosts always has 2 to 1 of fowards vs defense, I try to appreciated the guys helping guarding the goal as much as possible.
05-05-2004, 06:46 PM
I am not a coach but I am a girl and I do think that a lose is a team lose and that the boys on your team just need to cool down. They are just mad about losing. If you feel that you put out the best players at the moment then you did the right thing even if they were girls. Big surprise to some but girls can be just as good or even better than some of the guys.
05-16-2004, 05:24 AM
Hey, I think that perhaps the blame should rest on the shoulders of the player with the major penalty. By the sound of things the coach was worried that more of the same kind of offenses may be made if the play continued as it did, the girls deserve a chance to to play. Whilst putting them out at the same time meant that your team was weakened, the more your coach does this the better the girls 'll get, so in the long run whilst you lost the game perhaps your team will end up stronger for it.
06-02-2004, 01:51 AM
silly goalies, sticks are for shooting :)lol
i sincerely hope no fathers are trying to live out their pitiful hockey dreams through their( or for that matter any of their kids) daughters, I have had nightmares no where near as bad! Furthermore, its worth noting that fathers will be tougher on their sons then their daughters when they fail in sports, if anyone wishs to provide a counter example, please do!
06-02-2004, 03:21 AM
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>
Furthermore, its worth noting that fathers will be tougher on their sons then their daughters when they fail in sports, if anyone wishs to provide a counter example, please do!
hmmm, I have to agree with you on this one, from experience.
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