Pool Play

[hockeykid12]

how does pool play affect play off seeding?

[GMU18]

Pool Play doesn't really effect seeding.
For example,
Lindenwood, cal pol, long beach, and MSU are going to be ranked 1,2,3,4 pool play will determine which number they get.

I'm a little confused on how the pools were picked however.
Eastern Michigan over GVS?
Long beach and Cal pol over UC santa barbara? I guess it doesn't matter, but i disagree with those decisions.

[GMU18]

Just for fun....
Pool A
Lindenwood (3-0)
Cal poly (1-1-1)
MSU (1-1-1)
Long beach (0-3)

Pool B
Ohio State (3-0)
UC Santa Barbara (2-1)
Bethel (1-2)
West Chester (0-3)

Pool C
UNLV (2-0-1)
UMSL (2-1)
Eastern Michigan (1-1-1)
Stony Brook (0-3)

Pool D
Grand Valley State (2-1)
Towson (1-0-2)
Central Florida (1-1-1)
Illnois (0-2-1)

Pool E
Arizona State (3-0)
Neumann (2-1)
Missouri (1-2)
Metro State (0-3)

[hockeyguy99]

I cant imagine Long Beach going 0-3, they match up very well against anybody including Lindenwood as you saw last year. As far as the B bracket I think West Chester and UCSB will be battling for that first spot. Your picks for pool C and D i like, but Neumann will be the winner of pool E

[William Bourque]

I'm a little confused on how the pools were picked however.
Eastern Michigan over GVS?
Long beach and Cal pol over UC santa barbara? I guess it doesn't matter, but i disagree with those decisions.

Just like last year, the top 8 seeds are split between Pool A and Pool B. The middle 8 between Pool C and Pool D and the bottom 8 between pool E and pool F.

Just because Cal Poly and Long Beach are in Pool A doesn't mean that they were ranked higher than UCSB, the same thing for Eastern and Grand Valley.

[hockeyguy18]

Pool A:
Lindenwood 3-0
Cal Poly 2-1
Michigan St 1-2
LBS 0-3

Pool B:
UCSB 3-0
WCU 2-1
Bethal 0-2-1
Ohio St 0-2-1

Pool C:
UNLV 2-1
UMSL 2-1
Stony Brook 1-2
EMU 1-2

Pool D:
GVS 2-1
Towson 2-1
Illinois 1-2
UCF 1-2

Pool E:
Neumann 3-0
Missouri St 2-1
Metro St 0-2-1
Arizona St 0-2-1

Pool F:
UConn 2-1
GMU 1-1-1
UNT 1-1-1
Colorado St 1-2

[Mustangs]

Pool A:
Pool E:
Neumann 3-0
Missouri St 2-1
Metro St 0-2-1
Arizona St 0-2-1


ASU won't go 0-3 in pool play.

[RealTalk19]

Pool A:
Lindenwood 3-0
Cal Poly 2-1
Michigan St 1-2
LBS 0-3

Pool B:
UCSB 3-0
WCU 2-1
Bethal 0-2-1
Ohio St 0-2-1

Pool C:
UNLV 2-1
UMSL 2-1
Stony Brook 1-2
EMU 1-2

Pool D:
GVS 2-1
Towson 2-1
Illinois 1-2
UCF 1-2

Pool E:
Neumann 3-0
Missouri St 2-1
Metro St 0-2-1
Arizona St 0-2-1

Pool F:
UConn 2-1
GMU 1-1-1
UNT 1-1-1
Colorado St 1-2



You don't think Ohio St., or West Chester has a chance against UCSB in Pool B?

[Hockey Coach]

Looks like the Pools have changed. SBU has dropped out..

[Mustangs]

Yeah, looks like Hofstra and NC State got in and SBU and GMU dropped out? Anyone know why?

[PMoyer3]

The schedule is posted too! Nothing beyond pool play though and no brackets.

I'm glad those two got in though. It ends the Eastern Michigan debate.

[hockeykid12]

after looking at the pools, it seems like neumann hopped up like 2 pools even over towson, anyone know why that is?

[GoRangrHky]

What I do know about the pools is that, for example, pool A is not teams 1-4. Pools A and B are a mix of 1-8, C and D are 9-16, E and F are 17-24. So with SB and GMU out, Neumann is now in the 9-16 range, and probably for ease of scheduling, was just a replacement for SB in that group. They also try to keep regional matchups apart from one another. Like when Hofstra and Stony Brook (45 minutes away on Long Island) played a pool game against each other in San Jose.

[Bthumme]

Anyone know if there will be some improved video/radio coverage for the event? Got a lot of people back here in MI that want to watch or listen to the game. Can revision/mission kick in some sponsorship for someone like FastHockey to cover the games? I watched a couple of the ACHA games that were free, the coverage was decent.

Oh, and 1145pm game (for us), thats what, 145 am back here, ch'yeah!

[GoRangrHky]

I'm curious what happened to Mason. They had a host of excuses last year (one guy said they didn't have enough money, another guy said that too many people were hurt), so I'm interested to hear what their reasoning is this year.

[GMU18]

We had 7 skaters and 2 goalies this Monday.

We bought a few extra practice slots to prepare for nationals. On several of the practices we had only three guys show up. One of our players was dishearten by the lack of attendance and effort for a trip which was going to cost him around $700 dollars and decided to drop on Monday. This resulted in one other player also dropping.

We had a vote to go with 5 skaters. I was the only one who voted yes.

[hockeykid12]

That is ridiculous, you know all year long that you have a good chance to make nationals in the region you play in. Last year it was an array of excuses, this year seems the same. I think the NCRHA should just not give you invites if a team backs out in back to back seasons. What a joke.

[danglsauce]

You need to relax. Its not the NCAA where you have to accept the bid. Thats why they have alternates. Maybe they have schoolwork? You know that thing you need to be in to play in this league.
The only problem is that other teams have less time to prepare but for a team like Hofstra I dont think they care.

Also, why isnt SBU going?

[hockeykid12]

Exactly, it puts another team at a disadvantage who has to replace them. They also stated that there was a lack of commitment this year, i believe last year it was a lack of funds. The team needs be held accountable for the broader outlook of their season, such as being able to attend nationals if selected.

[danglsauce]

You your plan is to punish next year's team for the actions of last year's? That make sense.
That's USC getting banned from the post-season for stuff that Reggie Bush did 6 years ago.
Sometimes teams don't know that kids are going to bail. We had to call up kids from the B team the week before Nationals last year.
Also, some teams budget a certain way and then find out it was in a more exspensive place.
As a president, nothing is more fustrating then planning for nationals all year and then have guys bail. No reason to punish guys that would go next year.

[letsgoisles89]

You your plan is to punish next year's team for the actions of last year's? That make sense.
That's USC getting banned from the post-season for stuff that Reggie Bush did 6 years ago.
Sometimes teams don't know that kids are going to bail. We had to call up kids from the B team the week before Nationals last year.
Also, some teams budget a certain way and then find out it was in a more exspensive place.
As a president, nothing is more fustrating then planning for nationals all year and then have guys bail. No reason to punish guys that would go next year.

agreed. it's really not fair to criticize/punish clubs for backing out in situations where the players have to pay a good amount of money out of their own pockets.

at uconn we're VERY fortunate that the department of student activities will fund 75% of all airfare/lodging/rental cars + 100% of the entry fee for any club sports team that is invited for a national tournament.

if that wasn't the case, i'm not sure we would have been at nationals the past few years.

[Bthumme]

agreed. it's really not fair to criticize/punish clubs for backing out in situations where the players have to pay a good amount of money out of their own pockets.

at uconn we're VERY fortunate that the department of student activities will fund 75% of all airfare/lodging/rental cars + 100% of the entry fee for any club sports team that is invited for a national tournament.

if that wasn't the case, i'm not sure we would have been at nationals the past few years.

That's a good gig at UCONN. We tried getting money from
Our student association, but they won't let us since the money doesn't "benefit" all
The students (it would be just our club). Which sucks because there's a surplus of money in certain areas here.

Anyways I'm sure money is the issue for 95% of the teams. Were gonna find out how much money we get for nationals this week from our schools "excellence fund"; it sounds like about $1500...aka our entry fee +1 airplane ticket.

[GoRangrHky]

It was more based on the fact that Mason was talking all year about how they were definitely going to go and planned it better and everything, and then last minute they back out. Not that I'm complaining, believe me, but it does make it a lot harder for those teams. Prices for flights shot up $150 or so per person from the time that the bids were announced to when Mason backed out. But, that's part of the deal I guess if you want to make it in as an alternate.

[WC player]

Any new predictions with the added teams?

[housley]

I'll throw out some predictions.

Pool winners:
Long Beach State
UC Santa Barbara
Eastern Michigan
Towson
Arizona State
Missouri State

Final 8 teams in playoffs...
Lindenwood
UNLV
UC Santa Barbara
Cal Poly SLO
Arizona State
Eastern Michigan
West Chester
Michigan State


Lindenwood/Santa Barbara in the final...

[hockeykid12]

I think most of us are intrigued to see how eastern Michigan does.

[danglsauce]

The alternates complained that they should be there. Why? My guess is that they think they can compete (Honestly, Hofstra can easily lose to a lot of teams but can upset top teams. Happens every year) In San Jose there was a HUGE dropoff between the top 5 (MSU, UMSL, Lindy, ASU, and Buffalo) compared to the 5 teams in the last pool (only 21 teams that year). That is why the league switched to this top 8, middle 8. bottom 8. But everyone complains that they should be higher or lower, in nationals while others should be out.
I think it is too strict based on what pool you're in. A team in the D pool is screwed because they have an extra game and will play a pool A team in the Sweet 16 no matter what.
we should go back to 1, 24, 16, 17 in a pool, 2, 23, 15, 18 and so on. And base the seeds on straight up nationals results. Pts, wins, +/-, GA, then seed going in (should count for something). This also means that you wont get key matchups until the finals. I wouldnt like playing 7 games and playing two teams twice (If seed hold up)
But if you want the bigtime matchups in the round robin then do what you did in Feasterville. Rank everyone, 1-4 in a pool, 5-8 and so on. Then have a "selection meeting" for brackets. This way if a team dominates a pool you can move up from 8 to 3rd or 24th to 18th. If you are in the E pool and think you have a chance to go far you are better off losing every game. Playing the top team in the D then lowest in the A instead of the opposite.
No matter how you do it, i dont like how you cant move more than 4 seeds.

[William Bourque]

The alternates complained that they should be there. Why? My guess is that they think they can compete (Honestly, Hofstra can easily lose to a lot of teams but can upset top teams. Happens every year) In San Jose there was a HUGE dropoff between the top 5 (MSU, UMSL, Lindy, ASU, and Buffalo) compared to the 5 teams in the last pool (only 21 teams that year).

Huge upsets rarely happened in the old format. The top 4-5 teams would blow out most the teams they played and could coast through the first 4 or 5 games without hardly breaking a sweat.


That is why the league switched to this top 8, middle 8. bottom 8.

Actually, it was to promote a more competitive tournament. It was a hard pill for teams to swallow, spending all the money to get to nationals to lose games 12-2, 10-0, etc. Hence not being able to field a full tournament field in San Jose.


I wouldnt like playing 7 games and playing two teams twice (If seed hold up)

The only way you can have a rematch from a Round Robin game is in the Final Four.



But if you want the bigtime matchups in the round robin then do what you did in Feasterville. Rank everyone, 1-4 in a pool, 5-8 and so on. Then have a "selection meeting" for brackets.

Feasterville did not utilize the 1-4, 5-8 Brackets. The selection meeting for Brackets was an out-dated notion and was opted to be removed. Teams often would only vote/posture in ways that benefited themselves and most of the meeting was spend trying to avoid the Lindenwood side of the bracket.



If you are in the E pool and think you have a chance to go far you are better off losing every game. Playing the top team in the D then lowest in the A instead of the opposite. No matter how you do it, i dont like how you cant move more than 4 seeds.

In the end it is about winning, if you think tanking is the solution to avoid a higher seed than so be it, but on the biggest stage the league has to offer, you would think your pride alone would want you to compete to win and not run and hide at the thought or running into someone who is better than you.

Last year, Cal Poly SLO went from the bottom pool to upset the #3 seed in Arizona State and fell 1 goal short of a national championship. I bet you they never once thought of tanking, they were clearly in the mindset of winning one game at a time.

[ISFN]

Been through both era's (Selection committee and current format), obviously there are pro's and con's to both, I strongly preferred the selection committee. The current format, amongst other things, strongly favors larger benches and teams with more depth. You can have an elite team with 3 or 4 core guys (and excel), relying on those 3 or 4 for a extremely tough rough robin only depletes your resources and ultimately scars you for the playoff rounds(being such a short tournament), sure you can throw the round robin games in order to save your self but that's just one of the many complaints I have regarding the current format, Prime example was Buffalo in San Jose, amazing team that should of won nationals that year in Division 1 but their schedule had to put a damper on them.

[GoRangrHky]

Well I think that shows who has the better team, not a few better individuals. That's what I like about college roller hockey- it's not Narch, where the games are done as soon as they start, and you can go to a tournament with 6-7 guys and win. You need a complete team to be successful. It's not basketball, where all you need is one good player and you'll win.

[BEEZERAL]

with the lack of interregional play, its impossible to accurately seed teams. The current format is the least crappy scenario. Its not great, but it's better than nothing.

[Sbu31]

You need to relax. Its not the NCAA where you have to accept the bid. Thats why they have alternates. Maybe they have schoolwork? You know that thing you need to be in to play in this league.
The only problem is that other teams have less time to prepare but for a team like Hofstra I dont think they care.

Also, why isnt SBU going?


http://www.sbstatesman.com/roller-hockey-forfeits-bid786

our school seems to think we are just an expensive hobby.....

(p.s we still had 11 grand left from what the school gave us in the fall...so we had the money...just couldn't use it...)

[hockeyguy99]

I think that the way nationals is set up is absolutely the best system without real inter-conference play. The thing about roller hockey is that it is such a niche sport, you basically know who all the best players/ teams are because it is such a relatively small community. It gets a little tough with the few bubble bids that are out there but it comes down to who could actually compete with the best teams. It sucks that a team might be able to just enjoy the nationals experience but a team with a subpar record does get to. But at the end of the day, a team like ASU has alot better chance of upsetting one of the TOP 8 than another team with a better record that plays in a weak conference

[BEEZERAL]

I think that the way nationals is set up is absolutely the best system without real inter-conference play. The thing about roller hockey is that it is such a niche sport, you basically know who all the best players/ teams are because it is such a relatively small community. It gets a little tough with the few bubble bids that are out there but it comes down to who could actually compete with the best teams. It sucks that a team might be able to just enjoy the nationals experience but a team with a subpar record does get to. But at the end of the day, a team like ASU has alot better chance of upsetting one of the TOP 8 than another team with a better record that plays in a weak conference




Exactly this

[Bthumme]

http://www.sbstatesman.com/roller-hockey-forfeits-bid786

our school seems to think we are just an expensive hobby.....

(p.s we still had 11 grand left from what the school gave us in the fall...so we had the money...just couldn't use it...)

That infuriates me like no other. We still don't have our plane tickets because the school isn't doing anything for us, and it's looking like we will have to drive to Salt Lake from Michigan.

[Sbu31]

That infuriates me like no other. We still don't have our plane tickets because the school isn't doing anything for us, and it's looking like we will have to drive to Salt Lake from Michigan.

It's been a war at our campus between club sports and our student government considering our club sports seem to be the only sports teams on campus able to make it to national tournys (they pride our lousy basketball team that can't make the ncaa tournament in the worst conference in the country...). They had a vote yesterday on cutting all grant money that was saved for club sports going to national tournys as well just to add some more fire to the pot for teams that didn't have the money left in their budget for them.

[Bthumme]

It's been a war at our campus between club sports and our student government considering our club sports seem to be the only sports teams on campus able to make it to national tournys (they pride our lousy basketball team that can't make the ncaa tournament in the worst conference in the country...). They had a vote yesterday on cutting all grant money that was saved for club sports going to national tournys as well just to add some more fire to the pot for teams that didn't have the money left in their budget for them.

As I'm sure you already know this, it's all politics. What you need to do is call together the other sports club teams and get some together, and get some of you to run for student government. When that happens you get discussion from someone who knows what the heck they are talking about. Hearing a comment like "expensive hobby" just does no good for anyone. Even if you are completely against it, you can come up with a quasi-decent formal response. Once again man I feel for you and your team; but it's not too early to start making changes for next year.

[BEEZERAL]

As I'm sure you already know this, it's all politics. What you need to do is call together the other sports club teams and get some together, and get some of you to run for student government. When that happens you get discussion from someone who knows what the heck they are talking about. Hearing a comment like "expensive hobby" just does no good for anyone. Even if you are completely against it, you can come up with a quasi-decent formal response. Once again man I feel for you and your team; but it's not too early to start making changes for next year.

one of the most frustrating things about running a team is dealing with Student Govt. Nothing more than a bunch of resume padding blow hards who think its a good idea to give 20k to the Hatian society to hire a performer to play at their "fundraiser" rather than give a club sport money to go to Nationals. They try to act like they know about hockey or even sports in general, but you tell me if a committe made up of someone from Kenya, China, France, and South Africa have any idea what they are talking about.

I know Miami got more help than a vast majority of teams in the NCHRA, so I don't have much room to complain, but its still frustrating.

[hockeyguy18]

It's been a war at our campus between club sports and our student government considering our club sports seem to be the only sports teams on campus able to make it to national tournys (they pride our lousy basketball team that can't make the ncaa tournament in the worst conference in the country...). They had a vote yesterday on cutting all grant money that was saved for club sports going to national tournys as well just to add some more fire to the pot for teams that didn't have the money left in their budget for them.

im sorry to hear that. i was excited to see you guys play at nationals but good luck with everything i hope it works out for you guys next yr. and hopefully the league doesnt punish you bc it really seems like its not your fault.

[Sbu31]

just a funny side note our school just dropped 70 grand to book this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmP7TYtDVUU&feature=relmfu


but anyways, good luck to all the teams this week and hopefully see everyone next season.