AIHL Changes....

[towson9]

Flynn or Jeff take a look at this or anyone else involved with the league, figured it would be good to post here so it can be discussed and other people can add things plus since we debated about getting a new site on here and that worked this should be good....

All AIHL games should be festival style (like the college league does and like the couple jamborees we had last year). It will cut down on expenses for travel and player expenses in general. It will also allow players to play on teams that they arent close to so that traveling only a couple weekends to play 6-8 games a weekend would be worth it. Granted there will be less "home" games but in roller hockey does this really matter? maybe in a small few this does but lets face it most teams attract their girlfriends parents and a couple friends maybe, so these people would be willing to attend a big festival to see more games anyway.

Now I know most of the West does this anyway but I think the Eastern Conference should adapt to this outside of the 2 jamborees they have for the outside division games. All division games should be festival too. The season would be quicker and for players that work weekends it's also less of a hassle to only worry about 4-5 weekends rather than playing games every weekend or every other weekend.

Im sure most are with me when they see that there are way more pros than cons doing it this way, what does everyone think??

also what other changes are you looking for next year??

[DCbullets14]

Gene,
I agree with you on this... my thought is that festival style would have an increadibly positive impact on the sport. It would make it much easier on players which will attract more talent into the league (this is always a good thing).

It also increases the ability to get equipment companies involved... getting them to set up booths like they do at the tournaments would be awesome.

It also creates a circus like atmosphere for the events which will attract way more fans in the long run.

*** I would also like to see the 2 game format removed. It really accomplishes nothing. It was helpful in the old PIHA days when one team dominated all others however the AIHL is for the most part very competitive and these blow outs are rare. Lets make the halfs longer instead of playing 2 seperate games (similar to the final game 20 minute halfs).

*** There are two other rules that need to be changed in our sport.
1. We need to adopt the rule TORHS uses with regards to delayed penalties. Once the puck crosses the red line it cannot be carried back accross. This prevents teams from sitting behind their net and waiting out the clock. A simple and small change that really improves the game.

2. Failure to Advance - A rule needs to be created to prevent teams from sitting on the puck. In basketball and lax there are rules that regulate how the ball is moved up the playing surface.... you have 10 seconds to reach the half court.In lacrosse you must get the ball into the offensive box in a set amount of time.

Inline hockey should adopt a rule similar to these to put an end to teams which sit beind their net for extended periods of time. Patience is great but too much of it is boring, ruins the game, and drives off fans.

[minutemen]

I love the advance the puck rule. I hate when teams do that and it really makes the game boring. As for the entire season being festival I have to say no. Being a family man now it is hard to leave for an entire weekend to go play hockey. Obviously they will always have to be in PA (For the North) because they have two rink facilities. I like to just go for a few hours on the weekend, play the game, have a beer and go back to the family. For teams in MA, CT and RI it will be more money because of hotel, gas, etc. I understand it will be 5 or 6 weekends but I think it will make a lot of family players in the league stop playing. Gene I can see it from your point a view, a person that works weekends.

[towson9]

I love the advance the puck rule. I hate when teams do that and it really makes the game boring. As for the entire season being festival I have to say no. Being a family man now it is hard to leave for an entire weekend to go play hockey. Obviously they will always have to be in PA (For the North) because they have two rink facilities. I like to just go for a few hours on the weekend, play the game, have a beer and go back to the family. For teams in MA, CT and RI it will be more money because of hotel, gas, etc. I understand it will be 5 or 6 weekends but I think it will make a lot of family players in the league stop playing. Gene I can see it from your point a view, a person that works weekends.

I see your point but most of the north teams play over a weekend anyway. For example I noticed last year a Boston team would come down play 495ers on saturday and than stay and play the Sharks on sunday. So in theory that team is coming down for the weekend anyway, so if you're gonna stay why not play another 2-4 games against other teams to get it out of the way. For those that cant play both days, if you play 4 games both days, that particular player can get 4 games in as opposed to 2 than go home and still spend time with the family. Like I said there's pros and cons to everything but I feel this way more can get done it a shorter amount of time. On top of that for the younger guys or players that cant afford it, it will for sure cut down on costs.

[towson9]

Gene,
I agree with you on this... my thought is that festival style would have an increadibly positive impact on the sport. It would make it much easier on players which will attract more talent into the league (this is always a good thing).

It also increases the ability to get equipment companies involved... getting them to set up booths like they do at the tournaments would be awesome.

It also creates a circus like atmosphere for the events which will attract way more fans in the long run.

*** I would also like to see the 2 game format removed. It really accomplishes nothing. It was helpful in the old PIHA days when one team dominated all others however the AIHL is for the most part very competitive and these blow outs are rare. Lets make the halfs longer instead of playing 2 seperate games (similar to the final game 20 minute halfs).

*** There are two other rules that need to be changed in our sport.
1. We need to adopt the rule TORHS uses with regards to delayed penalties. Once the puck crosses the red line it cannot be carried back accross. This prevents teams from sitting behind their net and waiting out the clock. A simple and small change that really improves the game.

2. Failure to Advance - A rule needs to be created to prevent teams from sitting on the puck. In basketball and lax there are rules that regulate how the ball is moved up the playing surface.... you have 10 seconds to reach the half court.In lacrosse you must get the ball into the offensive box in a set amount of time.

Inline hockey should adopt a rule similar to these to put an end to teams which sit beind their net for extended periods of time. Patience is great but too much of it is boring, ruins the game, and drives off fans.

The TORHS rule is definitely a good idea to bring into the league.

The Failure to Advance the puck rule was implemented this past year (maybe not in all divisions but was in ours, and it was used in the playoffs in Disney). Here's how it was used. If the player is sitting behind the net with the puck and an attacking player is below the offensive zone faceoff dots (right on the crease, etc), its deemed the player is "pressuring" and the player behind the net does not need to move the puck. But if the attacking player moves back behind the faceoff dots than the player holding the puck behind the net must move the puck out after the referee gives him a 5-10 second warning. This was a pretty good rule because it forced the teams to not hold the puck the entire game.

[minutemen]

Definitely see your point or view on this. How about some weekday games? I know in the past it was hard because rinks had adult leagues but most rinks have some open time during the week now. Parents always used to tell me at my rink that try and make the games during weekdays so they could go. Obviously weekends are hard for the fans as well. We tried this a couple of times and had good turnouts to our games. Now this can't work for some rinks but most now could probably do it.

[growl89]

*** I would also like to see the 2 game format removed. It really accomplishes nothing. It was helpful in the old PIHA days when one team dominated all others however the AIHL is for the most part very competitive and these blow outs are rare. Lets make the halfs longer instead of playing 2 seperate games (similar to the final game 20 minute halfs).

*** There are two other rules that need to be changed in our sport.
1. We need to adopt the rule TORHS uses with regards to delayed penalties. Once the puck crosses the red line it cannot be carried back accross. This prevents teams from sitting behind their net and waiting out the clock. A simple and small change that really improves the game.

2. Failure to Advance - A rule needs to be created to prevent teams from sitting on the puck. In basketball and lax there are rules that regulate how the ball is moved up the playing surface.... you have 10 seconds to reach the half court.In lacrosse you must get the ball into the offensive box in a set amount of time.

Inline hockey should adopt a rule similar to these to put an end to teams which sit beind their net for extended periods of time. Patience is great but too much of it is boring, ruins the game, and drives off fans.


The two game format is pointless in a league with parity. The whole purpose was to create a more even playing field and if a team lost 5-1 and 5-1, that was better, somehow, then 10-2 in one longer game. This league is pretty even and blow outs now would be few and far between. Let's play one long game. 2, 20's stop time is good.

I do not agree about the delayed penalty rule at all. A penalty is earned with hard work (most of the time) you should be able to use the puck and clock to your advantage in those situations.

Same goes for the advancing ths puck rule. It's a teams strategy. If you put an advance the puck rule in, then there needs to be a rule that you can not sit back and play a box. A box is the defensive version of killing the clock and waiting for one chance to score.

If there is going to be an advance the puck rule, then there should be a mandatory pressure that needs to be put on in order to move the puck. No pressure, then you should be allowed to just sit there.

[growl89]

Flynn or Jeff take a look at this or anyone else involved with the league, figured it would be good to post here so it can be discussed and other people can add things plus since we debated about getting a new site on here and that worked this should be good....

All AIHL games should be festival style (like the college league does and like the couple jamborees we had last year). It will cut down on expenses for travel and player expenses in general. It will also allow players to play on teams that they arent close to so that traveling only a couple weekends to play 6-8 games a weekend would be worth it. Granted there will be less "home" games but in roller hockey does this really matter? maybe in a small few this does but lets face it most teams attract their girlfriends parents and a couple friends maybe, so these people would be willing to attend a big festival to see more games anyway.

Now I know most of the West does this anyway but I think the Eastern Conference should adapt to this outside of the 2 jamborees they have for the outside division games. All division games should be festival too. The season would be quicker and for players that work weekends it's also less of a hassle to only worry about 4-5 weekends rather than playing games every weekend or every other weekend.

Im sure most are with me when they see that there are way more pros than cons doing it this way, what does everyone think??

also what other changes are you looking for next year??


Couldn't agree more, festivals are the way to go. What is worse then driving a few hours and playing in front of 20 people, then getting right back in the car. You spend more time in the car, then on the rink. Festivals are fun because you get to see all the teams at once. And since everyone knows each other anyways, it's always good to see people around the rink for a weekend. Working weekends myself with coaching, it was impossible for me to play this year due to the schedule being spread out over 6 months. With a game seemingly each weekend.

[DCbullets14]

The finals games were great... I didnt realize they had adopted that rule... the puck stayed moving almost the entire time and the games stayed very exciting.

I know in our division it is almost impossible to do weeknight games simply because of traffic concerns. Additionally many of th teams in our division are really spread out... Pittsburhg is about 4 hours and Richmond is about 2 and a half hours.

If the league does adopt the festival schedule we could potentially find a hotel to act as a league sponsor and give a really low room rate.

[DCbullets14]

Bill,
Imagine what would have happened to the league and sport if duing the AIHL broadcast the 495s had sat behind their net after getting a 2 goal lead.

There would not be a chance in hell of the league being given that opportunity in the future. By making the game exciting we peaked the interst of ESPN and now have a huge ace in our pocket for future sponsorships and have taken a major step towards legitimizing the sport.

Anyone who grew up in tournament roller hockey will argue that sitting behind your net is an important strategy in inline hockey unfortunately, every new fan will tell you that in ruins the game.

Roller hockey currently has the high scoring, fast paced action that the NHl has been trying to create over the last few years... we should be pushing the game to evolve into something even more exciting instead of allowing the "slow down" style of inline hockey to ruin such a great opportunity.

[GROWL]

Flynn or Jeff take a look at this or anyone else involved with the league, figured it would be good to post here so it can be discussed and other people can add things plus since we debated about getting a new site on here and that worked this should be good....

All AIHL games should be festival style (like the college league does and like the couple jamborees we had last year). It will cut down on expenses for travel and player expenses in general. It will also allow players to play on teams that they arent close to so that traveling only a couple weekends to play 6-8 games a weekend would be worth it. Granted there will be less "home" games but in roller hockey does this really matter? maybe in a small few this does but lets face it most teams attract their girlfriends parents and a couple friends maybe, so these people would be willing to attend a big festival to see more games anyway.

Now I know most of the West does this anyway but I think the Eastern Conference should adapt to this outside of the 2 jamborees they have for the outside division games. All division games should be festival too. The season would be quicker and for players that work weekends it's also less of a hassle to only worry about 4-5 weekends rather than playing games every weekend or every other weekend.

Im sure most are with me when they see that there are way more pros than cons doing it this way, what does everyone think??

also what other changes are you looking for next year??

I think it is important at this moment to point out a few things about the AIHL. We have a very active executive board and these types of arguements are had on a regular basis. We encourage all new ideas and/or critisism. IHC is a terrific venue for players, followers, or even critics to point out flaws, as each member of the executive committee regularly follows these boards and generally participates.

It is also important to note that changes to the league format are made once a year and that is at our annual league meeting in Las Vegas in late January.

In regard to your ideas. These ideas if submitted to the league office by a team representative can be added to the proposed changes for the 2011-2012 season. Allow me to explain briefly why we make changes when we do. We find that teams, while in mid-competetion, are far more interested in attending meetings and participating in league decision making, then after the season is over. This particular time of the season, team mangers are either taking a breather, perhaps enjoying the summer, or generally preparing their own organizations for a new season. We as a league most focus on who is in and out for next season and managing our off season affairs as well. Thus why we have adopted our mid season meetings to vote upon the following seasons league format, rules, and changes ect...

For the topic of festivals, I can tell you that no topic is discussed and debated more than this. It was reintroduced at the meeting in Florida preseeding the championships. Teams are all over the place on this topic. This is why the current league policy that each region shall decide on its own how to schedule their games is in place. I see no change in this policy in the near future because of the wide disparity of feelings on this topic. In the northeast, I suspect a combination of festival/home games will remain.

In regard to the idea of lengthening games. Two comments about this. In doing that it would first work directly against your idea of moving to festivals. It is far more attractive to go to a festival and play 4-6 games then go to a festival and play 2-3 games. Second not only does having a second game help keep blow outs within control, it also helps to keep order in a physical or emotional game. When the clock and score board is reset, emotions from the first game have to be kept in check. One last comment about festivals. Right now if you have a player who is unavailable for a weekend, they risk missing 2 maybe at worst 4 games. With a festival format it will be nearly impossible for players to miss weekends at all and be eligable for the playoffs.

Last about the website/ While we did not simply make a website change because of the posts on IHC, we were nervous making the change when we did and the posts certainly supported our arguement. We were aware since early to mid season that we had a lemon and simply had to wait until the right time to make a move. Please keep the comments coming. It is highly unlikely that your presenting something new, but a new point of view or perhaps overwhelming support for an idea one way or another will certainly help the owners, and executive board better drive this league in the right direction. After all that is what the league was founded on.

[Drexel63]

Teams are all over the place on this topic. This is why the current league policy that each region shall decide on its own how to schedule their games is in place. I see no change in this policy in the near future because of the wide disparity of feelings on this topic.

You can see this just in the individual comments here in this thread alone.. Every team deals with a different budget based on their distance to opponents. I think limiting the entire league to one scheduling style or another would irresponsibly alienate some franchise for the sake of others; which exactly what this league was meant to avoid, correct?



In regard to the idea of lengthening games. Two comments about this. In doing that it would first work directly against your idea of moving to festivals. It is far more attractive to go to a festival and play 4-6 games then go to a festival and play 2-3 games.


Having played college in this exact format for too many years, I must say I completely disagree with this. You can schedule 4 games (more for local teams) per festival for all teams if you group and locate the festivals with foresight, and book the rink time in bulk and in advance. Limiting franchises to a single minor team would help in this area as well.

Limiting franchises to a single minor team would also lead to a balanced divisional schedule for the minor league, which I think is definitely something which needs to be addressed.



Second not only does having a second game help keep blow outs within control, it also helps to keep order in a physical or emotional game. When the clock and score board is reset, emotions from the first game have to be kept in check.


This same logic works against your point as well, Flynn. We've both seen, way too many times, scores get settled in game 2, overflowing from beef in game 1. Although I will admit that with the AAU's take on misconducts and gross/match penalties, it is less likely now.



One last comment about festivals. Right now if you have a player who is unavailable for a weekend, they risk missing 2 maybe at worst 4 games. With a festival format it will be nearly impossible for players to miss weekends at all and be eligable for the playoffs.


Again, this comes back to intelligent scheduling. It should be the responsibility of the GM of each franchise to approach their scheduling meeting prepared, in order to maximize player eligibility and get key pieces of their roster eligible for the playoffs.



Last about the website/ While we did not simply make a website change because of the posts on IHC, we were nervous making the change when we did and the posts certainly supported our arguement. We were aware since early to mid season that we had a lemon and simply had to wait until the right time to make a move. Please keep the comments coming. It is highly unlikely that your presenting something new, but a new point of view or perhaps overwhelming support for an idea one way or another will certainly help the owners, and executive board better drive this league in the right direction. After all that is what the league was founded on.

I congratulate the league leadership for having the "stones" to make that move with the website when you did. After being burned with a bad investment only months earlier, you risked getting burned again, before the biggest weekend of the league's history, and I commend you for going through with it. Sometimes, less can be much more in the web business, and I look forward to the new website being revised and improved for a full season.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

festivals do NOT draw fans plain and simple. this league will not grow without fan base.

one or two festivals are ok, any more and you become just like torhs or narch. why have a LEAGUE at all if you are only recreating Torhs/NARCH.they do it best, leave them to it.

no fans go to those narch/torhs tourney events beyond families and players.

The answer is to condense the aihl schedule somewhat. (not game number but calendar length) you need to keep interest in the league by having the games closer together. make the schedule December to April. you need home games to build rivalries that make the sport more interesting. while it is good for parity to have Hartford play Richmond, no one cares becuase there isnt anything really at stake. But Hartford playing the sharks at a home and home matters becuase of divisional playoffs standings.


if you think festivals draw more actual fans than home series you dont get it. Festivals generate no story lines and no interest beyond the 50 people on this board. you need fans to care about the team and the sport. you cant build momentum when you have one home game in November then dont have another one until January because you are going three hours away to play a jamboree or have 4 weeks off.

you cant get fans on a bus to a jamboree (weve tried)

festivals benefit teams that are thrown together. its alot easier to convince guys to show to 4 weekend events than 10-16 weekend events. if it was easy to throw teams together, every year there would be so much turn over in terms of franchises and names etc and you couldnt convince someone to care about a team that may not be around next season.

Festivals are convenient for the players but not best for the league future.

[towson9]

festivals do NOT draw fans plain and simple. this league will not grow without fan base.

one or two festivals are ok, any more and you become just like torhs or narch. why have a LEAGUE at all if you are only recreating Torhs/NARCH.they do it best, leave them to it.

no fans go to those narch/torhs tourney events beyond families and players.

The answer is to condense the aihl schedule somewhat. (not game number but calendar length) you need to keep interest in the league by having the games closer together. make the schedule December to April. you need home games to build rivalries that make the sport more interesting. while it is good for parity to have Hartford play Richmond, no one cares becuase there isnt anything really at stake. But Hartford playing the sharks at a home and home matters becuase of divisional playoffs standings.


if you think festivals draw more actual fans than home series you dont get it. Festivals generate no story lines and no interest beyond the 50 people on this board. you need fans to care about the team and the sport. you cant build momentum when you have one home game in November then dont have another one until January because you are going three hours away to play a jamboree or have 4 weeks off.

you cant get fans on a bus to a jamboree (weve tried)

festivals benefit teams that are thrown together. its alot easier to convince guys to show to 4 weekend events than 10-16 weekend events. if it was easy to throw teams together, every year there would be so much turn over in terms of franchises and names etc and you couldnt convince someone to care about a team that may not be around next season.

Festivals are convenient for the players but not best for the league future.

I'm not saying it draws more of a fan base, if i did say that anywhere i didnt mean too. My point was that this will cut down on travel costs and player expenses. If you can cut the length of the season than that might help as well.

What i was saying about fan base is that most teams dont have them in general. i know you guys up in hartford do and you guys do a great job. everytime we go up there its packed. the majority of teams have like i said family members, girlfriends, and maybe a friend or two that just wanna come watch. for those people i said they are the same people that are willing to go to festivals, so you are not deterring them away because they are most likely going to go anyway and for that matter watch them play more games.

again not everyone is going to agree with it, there should still be home games if you want but if a team just wants to play festivals i dont see why you should say no to them.

[GROWL]

Bill,

I think you can see by Matt's response the passion some have with this topic. Make no mistake about it, I have taken no position on this topic personally. However, from a league stand point we have to understand these draw backs to festivals. While it may be necessary to use festivals entirely in some areas. I will point out that in those areas the divisions are small and it affords each rink to host at least one event. You must remember that we need the support of the rinks and if the rink doesn't get a slice of the pie then they are not likely to be supportive. In addition many teams do not pay for rink time and nuetral site games then add an additional cost. On the flip side, teams that generate a significant fan base then miss out on necessary revenue. In the northeast there are way to many teams to spread festivals everywhere. Not to mention that with so many teams we'd be forced, like last year, to use only the larger venues to accommodate the time needed. Also understand that every time there is a festival there needs to be staff on hand and the league would need to reorganize itself to properly staff these events, so hosting more then a handful becomes a real problem.

[Drexel63]

I think my position was missed in my comments on your post, Flynn, but I'm actually with Matt on the festival issue. I was only giving a real world example where the full festival style, with full length games, has and continues to work.. All the reasons you added here are definite concerns which are more easily handled with home and home series, rather than festivals.

I continue to urge, like Matt pointed out, that this league strive to be something different. Keep the power of scheduling in the hands of the GMs, with certain schedule constraints to keep the league balanced and fair. This avoids eliminating the GMs ability to build/cater to a fan base at home while still allowing them to limit player cost out of pocket, if need be. Let the GM's be responsible for what is best for their team, and don't put it on an already over-strained executive board.

I definitely support shortening the season footprint on the calendar. The last two years my team has had several month long breaks which have completely killed the flow of a season, and taken away from the experience of playing in a league like this.

[icehog]

I like this discussion. It's not a bitchfest. Noboby is pounding their chest. It's people trying to make the sport of inline hockey better.

First on the Festivals. I like them, but it can't be just Festivals. Without home games there is no fan base, no growth, no team identity. I like the mix the east coast has had the last few years, where they are a handful of home games and then 1 or 2 Festivals.

It's great to see all the teams and people, and even vendors at the Festivals, and I loved doing the live broadcasts. But if that's all there is, then there really is no season. It's just a bunch of tournaments.

Home games allow the teams to make money, and allow players to visit rinks they normally would probably never play at in some cases. I personally love travelling to new rinks. I would hate to be at the same 1 or 2 rinks all year long and try to call it a season. Also being a fan of inline hockey, if a team doesn't play in my area, I have no interest in that league or team.

And for speeding up the game, that's a tough one. Slowing it down has always been part of inline hockey. But if you want to promote it and take it to the next level, things have to change and evolve to keep the average sports fans interested.

There is nothing worse to watch than a player sitting behind the net with the puck for what feels like an eternity. Click. There goes that viewer.

Hockey has always been the 4th or 5th sport in the country. Inline hockey is even further back. What can be done to take it to the next level ?
Keep the ideas coming.

dave

[DCbullets14]

Would it better if we did something like 8 home games and 8 away games? (roughly one against each divisional opponent)

Than 12 festival games? (3 festivals with 4 games or 2 with 6 games)

This is based off the extended game length two 20 min halfs

This would shorten/ condense the season, cut travel time back, and still allow teams to get some fans in the door.

This also cuts 4 games off the season length... which I think well help bring fans out since each game has more meaning....

[growl89]

I like this discussion. It's not a bitchfest. Noboby is pounding their chest. It's people trying to make the sport of inline hockey better.

First on the Festivals. I like them, but it can't be just Festivals. Without home games there is no fan base, no growth, no team identity. I like the mix the east coast has had the last few years, where they are a handful of home games and then 1 or 2 Festivals.

It's great to see all the teams and people, and even vendors at the Festivals, and I loved doing the live broadcasts. But if that's all there is, then there really is no season. It's just a bunch of tournaments.

Home games allow the teams to make money, and allow players to visit rinks they normally would probably never play at in some cases. I personally love travelling to new rinks. I would hate to be at the same 1 or 2 rinks all year long and try to call it a season. Also being a fan of inline hockey, if a team doesn't play in my area, I have no interest in that league or team.

And for speeding up the game, that's a tough one. Slowing it down has always been part of inline hockey. But if you want to promote it and take it to the next level, things have to change and evolve to keep the average sports fans interested.

There is nothing worse to watch than a player sitting behind the net with the puck for what feels like an eternity. Click. There goes that viewer.

Hockey has always been the 4th or 5th sport in the country. Inline hockey is even further back. What can be done to take it to the next level ?
Keep the ideas coming.

dave

Just to play Devils Advocate:

How many teams have over 100 fans every game and actually MAKE money on home games?

I like festivals more, BUT, with this ESPN 3 thing, there is a real chance to score some fans here if done correctly. Perhaps this season, there can be a game of the week or even game of the month on ESPN 3?

Expansion should be limited to markets without teams. I think we can all agree that the Atlantic and Northeast are jam packed.

The season, like some mentioned, is way too long. Beginning of October to the end of May. again like someone said earlier, 4-5 months tops. Generate a fan base by having more then one set of home games a month or two months.

My rambling is almost over, don't worry!

Finally, make each game mean something to the people coming. Get a local dance team to perform, bring in the mayor to drop a puck, have a parking lot BBQ for fans after the games to meet with the players. Stop having 7,8,9 pm starts. NO ONE wants to come see something they never have if their favorite NHL, NBA, NFL, or even Nascar race is on TV. Hopefully, if I end up on a team next season I can help set the bar for this. This sport is too exciting to have players playing in empty buildings!

[wgabelm]

[QUOTE=DCbullets14;66127]
I know in our division it is almost impossible to do weeknight games simply because of traffic concerns. Additionally many of th teams in our division are really spread out... Pittsburhg is about 4 hours and Richmond is about 2 and a half hours.



Too funny. Disney was our shortest trip of the year. We played the entire season in the festival format and DIDN'T PLAY A SINGLE HOME GAME ALL SEASON. Lets ease up on the complaints on driving distance.

[GROWL]

Everyone makes excellent points. Glad to hear all the suggestions, keep em coming.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I'm not saying it draws more of a fan base, if i did say that anywhere i didnt mean too. My point was that this will cut down on travel costs and player expenses. If you can cut the length of the season than that might help as well.

What i was saying about fan base is that most teams dont have them in general. i know you guys up in hartford do and you guys do a great job. everytime we go up there its packed. the majority of teams have like i said family members, girlfriends, and maybe a friend or two that just wanna come watch. for those people i said they are the same people that are willing to go to festivals, so you are not deterring them away because they are most likely going to go anyway and for that matter watch them play more games.

again not everyone is going to agree with it, there should still be home games if you want but if a team just wants to play festivals i dont see why you should say no to them.


I dont think we should get rid of festivals but I think that having all festivals is not a great idea....

I also agree with cutting down costs Geno....best way to do that is to have rinks own teams and be realistic with the costs. if the rinks owned teams and charged the players merely enough to break even and did the right stuff other wise, things would get better.

I still think condensing the time of season is a great idea.

[CraigBrodz]

I really like the idea to make the season shorter in terms of Months. It seems as though we stop playing have a couple months off then go right back to tryouts. I personally like having the home and home series against teams. I think it gives it more of a profesional feel.

I also would support a rule that would force teams to advance the puck instead of sitting behind the net. I do come from an Ice Hockey background and I think the games would be a lot more fun to watch if that part of the game were eliminated. There wasn't much of that in Disney and I think it made the games more exciting with a lot of end to end action, which is what roller hockey is supposed to be.

[GoRangrHky]

As far as ESPN3 goes, while I know none of the details, a lot of their production facilities seem to be built into the Wide World of Sports complex. Getting a production truck and staff to a location is a LOT of money. It worked out well in Disney, where it's built in, but the cost of getting it done otherwise would fall on the league.

Having worked for several mid level professional sports organizations (National Pro Fastpitch, Major League Lacrosse, and Women's Professional Soccer), I have seen each use several models to try and get their games on the air. Almost all of them require the league to sell the advertising time and use that money to seed the expenses associated with putting on the broadcast.

People say sell advertising, but let me tell you, it's not as easy as it seems, especially these days. I'm not sure why people are under the impression that companies are lining up to shell out money on advertising, but that is as far from the truth as you can get. Advertising budgets are being drastically reduced across the board, and what little money these ad execs do have, putting towards an regular season inline hockey broadcast on a web stream is a hard sell.

What these other leagues use the TV broadcasts for is to basically sell tickets. People take a look, see what it's like, and might head out to the stadium for a game. It builds up some interest, but that's about it.

While I think it looks great, I think that expecting it to happen all the time is a little too radical for now. It would behoove the teams, however, to start trying to get broadcasts of their games on local TV. Public access, local Comcast channels over the summer, whatever you can do. Produce it well (try working with local colleges) and get it out there.

[GoRangrHky]

On another note, one of the phenomena around Long Island/ NYC recently has been women's roller derby. They are drawing 1,000+ to their matches, and these people are legitimately into it.

Their basic model is pretty simple- local organizations (Long Island Roller Rebels, Gotham Girls Roller Derby) have their own mini "leagues", which consist of 3-5 teams. They are all part of the same organization, I guess practice together, have the same ownership, etc. But they play one another all season, with the occasional interleague match against a very local rival happening.

Why does this work out better? First off, travel is non-existent. They play at the same place all the time, which is right in the middle of where everyone is from. Next, they do a TON of grassroots marketing, get their friends and family to come, and make an event out of every single one. Some people seem to be just fans in general of the organization, others seem to be fans of particular teams. Regardless, people show up to support. I personally think that the NE division minor championship between the two 495ers teams was one of the best attended games of the season for us. Maybe because it was a championship game, but I think that it was the two local teams had a lot to do with it.

Now, when you think about it, a model like that is nothing more than a glorified house league. But, if there is production value added to it, make it an event rather than a game, get live music and beer and all that going, maybe that'd be a model that could work out a little better.

[minutemen]

Great topic, nice to see peoples perspective and no name calling. As far as fans go, the key is the players. Each organization has about 30 players, if each player brings 3-5 fans a game, that is 90-150 fans. I hate in the past that players complain about fans and blame the team owners for it. Owners have enough on their plate, players start to help. That is why Roller Derby is so popular all over the country. The team goes out to bars, restaurants, etc and promote the team. Inline players expect people to come, and they will not. If you build it they will come and roller derby does that. Then once you get that friend and family fan base, in time there friends and family may start coming to games by word of mouth.

I love what the Hartford Fireants did when I played for one season. They gave players discount on team fee if they sold tickets. Great idea friends and family came to watch and it went toward your team fee. If any owners out there have any questions about how to run an organization, talk to Jim Miller and Matt Zuba of the Fireants. They do a great job. I know there are other teams that do the same but I have played for them. They have a great coaching staff as well. Never seen guys so dedicated to a team and wanting the organization to grow. Joe, Steve, Roger and Ken, you deserve credit as well. :D

[FrankFrank]

Just a quick not on the derby thing (the wifey is a derby girl for the Dutchland squad)…

There is what you are talking about with the mini-league thing which is basically an in-house league, but there is also the WFTDA bouts that those teams belong to that have bouts taking place all over the country. They do whatever in-house bouts, and then they typically have 6 WFTDA bouts that they do. So there is reduced travel for in-house, but for instance, the Charm City Roller Girls went to Montreal this past year and the Dutchland Rollers had a west coast tour they did. So I really don’t think we’re even comparing like-travel situations.

And for anyone who has not seen a derby bout… Great teams to go checkout a home bout at are Baltimore, Dutchland, Gotham City, and then the Rocky Mountain teams. These orginizations put on a friggin SHOW! I went to 3 Baltimore bouts and they had announcers basically dressed as pimps, and there were over 1000 folks there from Every walk of life. They had all manner of local sponsors all over the arena on game-day including Charm City Cakes (for all of you Ace of Cakes fans) and then a couple of local beer brewerys, and then all sorts of other vendors there. The event was a spectacle that would rival the interest of NARCh/TORHS/State Wars… and that’s just one single home bout, not even a extravaganza like they’re having out in Philly in 2 weeks.

As for grass-roots and community activities… the girls are expected to make appearances at their home rinks during skate sessions dressed in the derby garb, they make appearances and coordinate events at the local bars/clubs to drum up interest, and they also do their fair share of community PR activities. Everyone of them is responsible as part of the team.

But the one part that I admire the most that roller hockey hasn’t had for a while is this undivided community. Not only the whole 1-league/governing body, but each team is a giant family of sisters. I’m honestly jealous. I’ve had some teams where we’ve been a band of brothers, but these derby girls leave all of our hockey teams in the dust in this regard.

This pains me to say this, but with the current state things… Roller derby bouts are what roller hockey would be if it was “cool” in the public eye. Go to a bout and you’ll understand Exactly what I mean.


And yes, I dusted off the old quads and got back on them once the wife got involved in this. = )

Frank~Frank

[Alvare71]

I had this Idea a long time ago to try to bring in Fans besides players bringing their girlfriend when she didnt want to be there.

Raffles but not cheap raffles T.V, Cruise, Golf Outing....You have to give to get in these times

Festivals have been done before, but what can make it a sure deal......


1. Party Bus included in the ticket price......... long trips make it fun
Lets be honest NOBODY wants to drive two hours to watch a Roller Hockey Game

2. Entertainment, Band, Chili cook off, Etc........


3. Make it a Real Festival and revenue will be there, would fans show up if you made a whole day of entertainment?????

4. Let all the teams promote it for the weekend.....Then the players would have fun too.......Most tickets sold by a player wins a one piece hockey stick......

5. Have different teams to be seen other than Divisional play

Its about keeping it fresh, fun, exciting.......Not boring

Holding the puck does not help the sport, Tournament hockey is tournament hockey........Slowing it down when no one is watching is OK....


The bottom line is when people pay to see you, your an entertainer now not a hockey player.......

[growl89]

As far as ESPN3 goes, while I know none of the details, a lot of their production facilities seem to be built into the Wide World of Sports complex. Getting a production truck and staff to a location is a LOT of money. It worked out well in Disney, where it's built in, but the cost of getting it done otherwise would fall on the league.

Having worked for several mid level professional sports organizations (National Pro Fastpitch, Major League Lacrosse, and Women's Professional Soccer), I have seen each use several models to try and get their games on the air. Almost all of them require the league to sell the advertising time and use that money to seed the expenses associated with putting on the broadcast.

People say sell advertising, but let me tell you, it's not as easy as it seems, especially these days. I'm not sure why people are under the impression that companies are lining up to shell out money on advertising, but that is as far from the truth as you can get. Advertising budgets are being drastically reduced across the board, and what little money these ad execs do have, putting towards an regular season inline hockey broadcast on a web stream is a hard sell.

What these other leagues use the TV broadcasts for is to basically sell tickets. People take a look, see what it's like, and might head out to the stadium for a game. It builds up some interest, but that's about it.

While I think it looks great, I think that expecting it to happen all the time is a little too radical for now. It would behoove the teams, however, to start trying to get broadcasts of their games on local TV. Public access, local Comcast channels over the summer, whatever you can do. Produce it well (try working with local colleges) and get it out there.


I have mixed views on the statement that the money is not there. I coach a club ice hockey team and our budget is 120k+ per season, and it keeps going up as ice time and traveling become more and more expensive. This season our entire budget is going to be covered from either sponsorship or donation. We sell off ad space for everything. Jerseys, lockerroom, warm-ups, etc. All have ads on them. We have an ad journal that makes 30-40 grand a season, plus a beefsteak/tricky tray dinner that pulls in another 30-40 grand. This season we are even working with a car dealership for raffling a car. Plus every powerplay, penalty kill and starting line up have sponsors. We were a no name team in 2002 and now our website gets over 100,000 hits a month. And it's just club hockey. So "elite or pro" roller hockey should be able to trumph college club ice hockey. It just takes a year round effort from the players, coaches, and GM.

This money pays for ice time, equipment, lockerroom, bussing, hotel, meal money, coaching salaries ect. And all of these ideas were started by a few of us when we were playing in college there.

It is possible... The rinks, players and coaches need to market it correctly to the businesses around.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Silvia Man!


Thanks for the kind words. We missed you this season.

Shoot me a call.

We did try partnering with the Roller derby girls in Hartford but it didnt get off the ground.

I know that in the past they used to do it at halftime up in Holbrook.

Anything to get more people in the door is a good idea.
Spend a dollar today and do it right to take in two or three dollars down the road.

[quick_dry]

what concrete things are people doing to bring in the advertising/sponsorship revenue?

Are people involved from a marketing/sales background? How have teams brought in spectators in markets that aren't 'hockey' towns, particularly in bigger cities? (I'm in Sydney, Australia - getting crowds here is tough. Whereas when I played for a team in a regional area outside Sydney, we'd bring in 800 ppl no worries - rink was at full capacity, and generating promo stuff was easy - we got in with the local radio station, judged bikini comps at clubs, etc)
Maybe, in bigger cities/towns with many sports teams - how do you get people to care about yours?

[GoRangrHky]

I don't know much about what my team did for advertising, but I'm packing my gear and moving to wherever it is you're talking about!

[DCbullets14]

Just wanted to see if any decisions regarding any of the changes proposed in this thread have been made

[GROWL]

I can tell you the following. The AIHL season will be a 24 game schedule across the board this year. The reason for this is a growing concern that the season was simply too long and in regions with a lot of travel such as the gulf zone and southwest zone, playing 32 games was cumbersome and expensive.

As far as festivals are concerned. Now that the deadline for team entry has passed, we are debating possible division breakdowns and scheduling formats (which include festivals). I can tell you that the concept of a festival only league will never be adopted under the AIHL. A move to a festival style league would only set the league and sport back into exactly what has plagued inline hockey for the past decade. It will foster a team's ability to create super teams be flying players in and subsequently destroying good programs who simply cant compete. This is not an RHI substitute, it is meant to be a national league with regional based play.

[towson9]

I can tell you the following. The AIHL season will be a 24 game schedule across the board this year. The reason for this is a growing concern that the season was simply too long and in regions with a lot of travel such as the gulf zone and southwest zone, playing 32 games was cumbersome and expensive.

As far as festivals are concerned. Now that the deadline for team entry has passed, we are debating possible division breakdowns and scheduling formats (which include festivals). I can tell you that the concept of a festival only league will never be adopted under the AIHL. A move to a festival style league would only set the league and sport back into exactly what has plagued inline hockey for the past decade. It will foster a team's ability to create super teams be flying players in and subsequently destroying good programs who simply cant compete. This is not an RHI substitute, it is meant to be a national league with regional based play.

does this mean the minimum games played to be eligible for playoffs will be reduced from the original 20 games when it was a 32 game season? i would assume it would be dropped to 12-16 games to be eligible for playoffs right?

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I hope its 18-20 games to qualify.

If not it goes against the statement made about not wanting to fly in allstar teams.

if it was 12 games a team could get most players 80% qualified after one festival of 8 games.

[DCbullets14]

I think with the decrease in game amount the rule would have to be changed. I dont think any of the festivals will be 8 games.... I would say the max would be like 4 games at an event.

*8 festival games (over 2 events) and 16 home/ away games would be awesome.

..... you could also change up the requirement so that home and away events count more towards eligibility than the festival games

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I hope there are no festivals this year....

or one max

[minutemen]

Flynn good post. I also agree that more festivals in not where the league wants to be heading. As much as festivals cut down on traveling it really does not help build the sport. Only a few rinks can host festivals, and that does not help grow a fan base from the one rink facility organizations. I do think the playoff eligibility should drop from 20 games. I agree with Zuba that one festival per region. I rather commit to a few hours driving and play 2 games, then have to commit a whole weekend.

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

I hope there are no festivals this year....

or one max

I couldn't agree with you more Matt!!!