AIHL Midwest

[ISFN]

Any consideration regarding expansion of a new division?

[GROWL]

Naturally we'd love to, but proper leadership will need to surface. Dave Garland come back. He has risen to the top!!!

[MBurke]

Naturally we'd love to, but proper leadership will need to surface. Dave Garland come back. He has risen to the top!!!

A fantastic show by the way: http://www.therisetothetop.com/

[cdolan]

Garland was ousted for a reason. I don't know how many people know the entire story, but let's just drop the thought of him running any league here. And no I'm not gonna say why he was removed. I don't even know if I'm supposed to know. Anyways, I hear he's doing pretty good with his current situation.

[Alvare71]

Garland was ousted for a reason. I don't know how many people know the entire story, but let's just drop the thought of him running any league here. And no I'm not gonna say why he was removed. I don't even know if I'm supposed to know. Anyways, I hear he's doing pretty good with his current situation.


Well I dont think its fair to say something like that when the guy is not in the post. I think there are guys who think he is a great leader, I dont know him at all.

But for someone to say there was a reason, unless it was criminal then I understand.

But to tell someone to drop the thought, then come out and say what you know.........its only fair to the guy.

[GROWL]

Garland was ousted for a reason. I don't know how many people know the entire story, but let's just drop the thought of him running any league here. And no I'm not gonna say why he was removed. I don't even know if I'm supposed to know. Anyways, I hear he's doing pretty good with his current situation.

I know exactly what went down as well and I will say again that it's an absolute shame that he was pressured out of the sport. To clear things up on a public front Dave did absolutely nothing wrong and the argument in my opinion was purely greedy. When you have someone drawing in tens of thousands of free dollars, and then you argue over a few dollars this way or that way, its ridiculous. 100% of Zero is Zero and that is what they have/had without him. I can only imagine where we would be if Dave was still around.

[cdolan]

We'd have a couple rinks filing chapter 11.

[ianmackie]

I know exactly what went down as well and I will say again that it's an absolute shame that he was pressured out of the sport. To clear things up on a public front Dave did absolutely nothing wrong and the argument in my opinion was purely greedy. When you have someone drawing in tens of thousands of free dollars, and then you argue over a few dollars this way or that way, its ridiculous. 100% of Zero is Zero and that is what they have/had without him. I can only imagine where we would be if Dave was still around.

The rinks owned the teams, yet lost money.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I dont think its possible for a team to make money right now.

[ianmackie]

That is probably true too.

[minutemen]

No rink will make money right away if they own the team. It takes time to build the program,to get fans, sponsors and advertisers interested. Dave did a great job and had a great plan. I think if teams/rinks would have stuck with it, they would have begun to make some money. It brings more people and new players to the rink. I know when I owned my rink in NJ, we were very close with other owners and we worked with one another. We would hold off season tournaments, we would do our best to send a team to each one. The Growl (Anthony Flynn) Fireants (Jim Miller and Matt Zuba) are just a few teams that we worked with on the off season. Two great organizations, one not around anymore, that were always willing to take a drive on a Saturday or Sunday in the summer to play in a tournament.

[TylerSollberger]

I find it funny that people who weren't close to the situation have such a strong opinion. Nobody said the rinks were trying to make money, but they didn't want to lose money. There happened to be a lot of empty promises and actually a rink stopped having games because of fees not paid to them. Dave had some great ideas, but also ran into some conflicts of interest by playing for a team while running the league.

[GROWL]

In anything in life there is conflict, especially when their is competition involved. I'm not here to represent Dave Garland, although having nothing but positive interaction with him in my dealings leads me to my original statement and willingness to stand up for him a bit. The facts are simple. Dave was the keystone to hockey in that area. Once his involvement ended, participation in a nationally organized league did not last very long. That was my point. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing first hand the lengths he went to make that division work, I would find it very hard to believe. It's one thing to talk, it's another to take action and Dave was a worker and got things done. It was my experience that the league was threatened by his forward thinking and was probably a big factor in his departure.

Again that said, he is one person and it would be nice for someone to rise up again in that region and get St Louis back on the map in one of these leagues.

[TylerSollberger]

Once again, I find it funny that you are located across the country, but call Dave Garland a "keystone" to hockey in St. Louis. That's actually pretty comical. I guess the "forward thinking" that you are referring to was jumping from PIHA and creating a new league. Which is fine, but it was gone about in the wrong way in our region.

[GROWL]

I don't live in Northern California and yet I know that CJ Gamble and Mario Sousa are keystones to hockey in that region. I can pretty much do that across the country to if you like. Having been involved in the management of these leagues for most of the last decade, I'd say it gives me a pretty good background on most of the ladscape of this sector of the sport.

Im trying not to bring up old battles, but the simple fact is that back in the old piha days, Dave was a very active and successful part of our leadership group amongst the team owners across the nation. He was also a very big critic of the league, as many of us were in our last season. When the mass exitus accorded, Dave simply did not have the support of the rink controled teams, who had loyalties to the league. Then sure enough all sorts of accussations began. The bottom line is that the issues were fixable, but at least it's my belief that the rift between the owners and the league played an enormous role in his departure out there

[Dean Portman]

Hey Flynn,

You don't know (nor do I) exactly what happened to PIHA in St. Louis. I have heard about the sketchy stuff that was going on there as well. Calling David Garland a keystone of St. Louis hockey is a pretty bold statement. After watching his show online, I think Keystone of infomercials would be a better assessment of his value to St. Louis. If you want to talk about people who have done a ton for hockey there, speak of the Beilstein family, the Garsh's (spelling) and Ian Mackie. Don't get me wrong, I don't know what happened with PIHA there, but I don't claim to know either. But you sound ridculous. I'm pretty sure Tyler (who I believe is active in the hockey community there) will know a bit more about the situation than you.

On a side note, I stumbled across some really weird hot tub video with you and some other guys from AIHL. You should spend less time at the keyboard and a little more time on the treadmill. Just a thought.

[GROWL]

Hey Portman,

I'm not sure if I should even comment here, as it is clear that this is no longer a conversation and it's a mud slinging match. You dont even know me and you're throwing personal shots now. Classy dude.

As for your comments. To say that I do not what happened in St Louis is pretty ignorant. I'm not claiming to know every single detail and I'm sure there are things I and the rest of the world will never know.

My only point is that for 3 very successful years Dave was vital (the key guy, thus keystone) for league hockey in that region. He organized the draft, the draft parties, schedules, jerseys, game day events, web promotions, video production, and most importantly he did what no one has still be able to do, which is attract major commercial sponsors to hand over free money to help pay for it all.

My comment was not about inline hockey in general in St Louis, it was in response to someone's inquiry to league play returning to that region. Obviously the names you mentioned have been prominent names in that region, but the topic was about league play. Those people were prominent before PIHA was there and after, yet league play only ever succeeded while Dave was around. That is not a shot against those guys, they focus in other areas, like tournaments and high school, in addition to running rinks. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before jumping into a topic and taking personal shots. It's not even debatable how important Dave was when PIHA was running in St Louis. I'm not here to discuss why he isn't, just to say that it was a shame that the differences couldn't be worked out to keep a forward thinker like him involved. Instead he took that work ethic and put it to use for his own benefit, which you make fun of him for. Let me know what channel your show is on? Hopefully its a workout show.

[Alvare71]

Hey Flynn,

You don't know (nor do I) exactly what happened to PIHA in St. Louis. I have heard about the sketchy stuff that was going on there as well. Calling David Garland a keystone of St. Louis hockey is a pretty bold statement. After watching his show online, I think Keystone of infomercials would be a better assessment of his value to St. Louis. If you want to talk about people who have done a ton for hockey there, speak of the Beilstein family, the Garsh's (spelling) and Ian Mackie. Don't get me wrong, I don't know what happened with PIHA there, but I don't claim to know either. But you sound ridculous. I'm pretty sure Tyler (who I believe is active in the hockey community there) will know a bit more about the situation than you.

On a side note, I stumbled across some really weird hot tub video with you and some other guys from AIHL. You should spend less time at the keyboard and a little more time on the treadmill. Just a thought.


Dean you remind me of one of those guys I used to skate against, he would talk so much on the rink running his mouth the whole game........

You know why????

He was wearing a cage that is the only reason he ran his mouth.........

if you dont know what happened why would you comment? let alone degrade someone........

I saw that video and I was listening to what they were saying....

Is there something you saw that you liked? Just curious, You say it was weird or are you really wishing you were apart of the video and your just putting them down because deep down inside you wanted to be there???

The only people on this board that talk smack, really have no clue what it takes to run a team let alone a league.....

And the guys who start drama cannot respond properly to the topic or are not that smart......

Do you know Dave Garland????? if not why say anything and if you do then that is a coward for speaking about him when he hasnt even posted....

[Mlrhnorthfan]

speaking of running mouths....

I heard a rumor that a certain IHC celebrity is playing in a mens league in southern CT.....

Three guesses:

[DavidGarland]

Hey guys,

Glad to see everyone is doing well and I hope last season (whatever league you played or didn't play in) was a success.

I happened to run across this post, so figured I'd jump in.

As with everything there are always rumors, half-truths, biases and other goodies.

Here is the brief story surrounding PIHA Gateway from my perspective.

Year #1: I was asked to come in and help with marketing the league which also meant getting sponsors. Of course, marketing went way beyond marketing and including pretty much everything from web work to sweeping the floors to video and all that jazz.

The deal that year was simple. Players paid to play. Rink owners collected the money. Rink owners were responsible for everything involving the teams: Practices, game night activities, running half time shows, refs, the list goes on.

My job essentially was the rest of it. Getting sponsors. Taking care of them. Promoting the league in any way I could short of getting on top of my roof and screaming at people to come.

The deal on sponsorships was a 50/50 split. For any sponsorships signed, I would get 50% and the other 50% was split among the St. Louis teams who put up the sponsor signage.

The problem arose again was pretty simple: Unfortunately the rinks struggled to put together game night experiences. The result was what you would expect:

Very little entertainment. No anthem singers. Players without matching helmets. People wearing wrong colored jerseys. Some teams practicing. Others never practicing. PIHA having trouble getting paid by the teams (sending dues to the league).

It didn't reflect a professional league but more of a house league which is where we differed in opinion.

So, year #2 was a complete revamp. The rink owners came to me and basically said "you handle it" when it came to entertainment, game night experience, paying PIHA, refs, etc. They would be responsible for the teams, but PIHA Gateway was to handle everything else.

Year two, I suggested that we explore option of independence as well by creating a non-PIHA league. Reason was, I felt we paid PIHA too much for what was offered (the franchise fee).

Anyway, for year #2, The idea was to create a better more consistent experience. Fun entertainment. Giveaways from sponsors like 180 Energy Drink. A radio show sometimes live broadcast from the games. Basically a carnival atmosphere.

Plus a professional website, nice tickets, schedules and the other basics you would expect from a "professional" league.

Lucking, there were college students eager to help out for college credit as opposed to dollars, so I had a small staff to help with every game night in St. Louis. They handled everything for the rink owners.

All the rink owners had to do basically was turn on the lights and the game experience was there as well as the marketing.

For year #2, the economic situation differed:

1. The 50/50 split on sponsorships still applied. And as promised, every rink owner was paid in full even after one "quit" near the end of the season.

2. Ticket money was collected by our interns and staff and then a check was made out to the home team for the entire amount. Nothing was taken out.

3. Player dues went to create the game night experiences, jerseys, refs, and to physical goods like tickets. Plus player dues were used to pay PIHA franchise fees.

So, the rink owners actually cleared a pretty penny. Sponsorships + ticket revenue.

I was by no means perfect running PIHA Gateway, but I poured all my effort into it. In fact, stupidly, I ended up losing some money in the end because we created a really cool website that I paid for out of pocket.

My decision to leave and start my new venture was mine alone. From a business perspective, I didn't see the long run value with inline hockey and was ready to move onto something I was more passionate about.

Hope everyone is having a safe start to summer. And it was great to find out that inline hockey this year made it onto ESPN 3. A great advancement for the sport.

[CraigBrodz]

St.Louis is a roller hockey hot bed, and there are a lot of good players in the area. It is a shame that the Mid-West does not have a league in either the AIHL or PIHA. One of my good friends owns a rink out there, and I am sure he would love to have a team in one of these leagues. It is ridiculous that people go so low to bash others on this board, Flynn was just stating the facts. I do not know this Dave Garland guy, but it seems as though the Mid-west league was successful under him, and became non-existent without him. That seemed to be the point Flynn was making, even an outsider can see that. This is supposed to be a place that is constructive, and used to help grow the sport a lot of good things are happening with this sport and this is a great place to discuss those things. But when people attack others personally nothing is accomplished, especially when it is the people who are on the forefront of making this sport grow. Personally I thought the crew in that hot tub video were sexy!! I wish you guys could have done all of the videos topless.

[TylerSollberger]

I don't live in Northern California and yet I know that CJ Gamble and Mario Sousa are keystones to hockey in that region. I can pretty much do that across the country to if you like. Having been involved in the management of these leagues for most of the last decade, I'd say it gives me a pretty good background on most of the ladscape of this sector of the sport.

Im trying not to bring up old battles, but the simple fact is that back in the old piha days, Dave was a very active and successful part of our leadership group amongst the team owners across the nation. He was also a very big critic of the league, as many of us were in our last season. When the mass exitus accorded, Dave simply did not have the support of the rink controled teams, who had loyalties to the league. Then sure enough all sorts of accussations began. The bottom line is that the issues were fixable, but at least it's my belief that the rift between the owners and the league played an enormous role in his departure out there

You basically just proved my point along with Dave's response. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to hockey in St Louis, while you still continue to sound ridiculous. Dave was not involved for all 3 years of PIHA's existence, which he proved to you. Dave was great from a marketing stand point, but to say he was a keystone is a little overboard. Ron Bielsten started the league in St Louis and many would say that the first year was the best. The third year was run by Ian Mackie. In reality, Dave was only truly involved in league operations during the second year.

You're missing the whole point here anyways. The rinks were losing money, due to people not coming to the games, players not paying, etc. Some of the rinks rent the space, so they didn't get concession money. The league wasn't creating new players, so why would the rinks continue to push away their house leagues to lose money on (at times) seemed like a glorified men's league? Bottom line is that the rinks owned the teams and if they weren't making a profit, it didn't matter who was running the league.

[Sinister Soup]

Hey guys,

Glad to see everyone is doing well and I hope last season (whatever league you played or didn't play in) was a success.

I happened to run across this post, so figured I'd jump in.

As with everything there are always rumors, half-truths, biases and other goodies.

Here is the brief story surrounding PIHA Gateway from my perspective.

Year #1: I was asked to come in and help with marketing the league which also meant getting sponsors. Of course, marketing went way beyond marketing and including pretty much everything from web work to sweeping the floors to video and all that jazz.

The deal that year was simple. Players paid to play. Rink owners collected the money. Rink owners were responsible for everything involving the teams: Practices, game night activities, running half time shows, refs, the list goes on.

My job essentially was the rest of it. Getting sponsors. Taking care of them. Promoting the league in any way I could short of getting on top of my roof and screaming at people to come.

The deal on sponsorships was a 50/50 split. For any sponsorships signed, I would get 50% and the other 50% was split among the St. Louis teams who put up the sponsor signage.

The problem arose again was pretty simple: Unfortunately the rinks struggled to put together game night experiences. The result was what you would expect:

Very little entertainment. No anthem singers. Players without matching helmets. People wearing wrong colored jerseys. Some teams practicing. Others never practicing. PIHA having trouble getting paid by the teams (sending dues to the league).

It didn't reflect a professional league but more of a house league which is where we differed in opinion.

So, year #2 was a complete revamp. The rink owners came to me and basically said "you handle it" when it came to entertainment, game night experience, paying PIHA, refs, etc. They would be responsible for the teams, but PIHA Gateway was to handle everything else.

Year two, I suggested that we explore option of independence as well by creating a non-PIHA league. Reason was, I felt we paid PIHA too much for what was offered (the franchise fee).

Anyway, for year #2, The idea was to create a better more consistent experience. Fun entertainment. Giveaways from sponsors like 180 Energy Drink. A radio show sometimes live broadcast from the games. Basically a carnival atmosphere.

Plus a professional website, nice tickets, schedules and the other basics you would expect from a "professional" league.

Lucking, there were college students eager to help out for college credit as opposed to dollars, so I had a small staff to help with every game night in St. Louis. They handled everything for the rink owners.

All the rink owners had to do basically was turn on the lights and the game experience was there as well as the marketing.

For year #2, the economic situation differed:

1. The 50/50 split on sponsorships still applied. And as promised, every rink owner was paid in full even after one "quit" near the end of the season.

2. Ticket money was collected by our interns and staff and then a check was made out to the home team for the entire amount. Nothing was taken out.

3. Player dues went to create the game night experiences, jerseys, refs, and to physical goods like tickets. Plus player dues were used to pay PIHA franchise fees.

So, the rink owners actually cleared a pretty penny. Sponsorships + ticket revenue.

I was by no means perfect running PIHA Gateway, but I poured all my effort into it. In fact, stupidly, I ended up losing some money in the end because we created a really cool website that I paid for out of pocket.

My decision to leave and start my new venture was mine alone. From a business perspective, I didn't see the long run value with inline hockey and was ready to move onto something I was more passionate about.

Hope everyone is having a safe start to summer. And it was great to find out that inline hockey this year made it onto ESPN 3. A great advancement for the sport.

Hello Dave,
I'm just reading the posts here and I'm in no way involved or have I ever been involved with PIHA or this particular situation.... but reading this tread, so far, has been incredibly interesting. I'm just wondering if you're still working with inline hockey at all.

[growl89]

Hey Portman,

I'm not sure if I should even comment here, as it is clear that this is no longer a conversation and it's a mud slinging match. You dont even know me and you're throwing personal shots now. Classy dude.

As for your comments. To say that I do not what happened in St Louis is pretty ignorant. I'm not claiming to know every single detail and I'm sure there are things I and the rest of the world will never know.

My only point is that for 3 very successful years Dave was vital (the key guy, thus keystone) for league hockey in that region. He organized the draft, the draft parties, schedules, jerseys, game day events, web promotions, video production, and most importantly he did what no one has still be able to do, which is attract major commercial sponsors to hand over free money to help pay for it all.

My comment was not about inline hockey in general in St Louis, it was in response to someone's inquiry to league play returning to that region. Obviously the names you mentioned have been prominent names in that region, but the topic was about league play. Those people were prominent before PIHA was there and after, yet league play only ever succeeded while Dave was around. That is not a shot against those guys, they focus in other areas, like tournaments and high school, in addition to running rinks. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before jumping into a topic and taking personal shots. It's not even debatable how important Dave was when PIHA was running in St Louis. I'm not here to discuss why he isn't, just to say that it was a shame that the differences couldn't be worked out to keep a forward thinker like him involved. Instead he took that work ethic and put it to use for his own benefit, which you make fun of him for. Let me know what channel your show is on? Hopefully its a workout show.

Hey Flynn, after the treadmill you should grow some hair

[GROWL]

I'll get right on that Billy. It's not that I can't grow hair, its that the hair grows in the opposite direction and clowds my memory and ability to reason apparently.

[gradford9]

The airing of the AIHL championship games on ESPN3 proved to me that the sport (and the league) seems to be going in the right direction. I have since become more interested and have been reading about what the AIHL has to offer.

On the topic of the AIHL expanding to the Midwest, I am all for it. I myself am from Michigan, and there is a good amount of roller hockey players in the Metro-Detroit area, as evidenced by the regional NARCH tournaments, TORHS Nationals, and all of the NCRHA teams. There are 4-5 decent rinks (JCC in West Bloomfield, Joe Dumars Fieldhouse in Shelby Twp., Taylor Sportsplex in Taylor, Rivertown Sports in Grandville) that are capable of housing an AIHL team.

Is there anywhere I can find more information about the AIHL since the website doesn't have very much content? Also has there been any talk (besides this forum post) of an expansion to the Midwest?

[GROWL]

Garrett,

We have been speaking to a few Midwest contacts over the past few months. If all goes well, we might debut a new Great Lakes division this season. Then next few weeks will be vital to this decision. Will keep you posted.

[lufria55]

Garrett,

We have been speaking to a few Midwest contacts over the past few months. If all goes well, we might debut a new Great Lakes division this season. Then next few weeks will be vital to this decision. Will keep you posted.

Hope it works out! Would be great for our region.

Mike Farinelli
Detroit Revolution

[lansingvolt]

To answer the original question...

Yes, expansion has been talked about. In fact, my team is in those talks. Everyone, please welcome the Lansing Volt(Lansing, MI).

You can find us on FaceBook under Lansing Volt.