To Medal or Not to Medal

[hockeymum]

What do you guys think about giving all teams(or most anyway)medals/awards in youth events? I have mixed feelings. It has become very popular to split tournaments into multiple tiers, but with the amount of teams that many regional or smaller events draw, it often means that almost everyone wins a medal.

Does the age range make a difference in this decision? or the type of tournament? Is it just an unfortunate byproduct of reduced numbers and too many tournaments? Or the by product of parents/kids who need to see bling?

Again, I understand the motivation and think that there are times when it may be appropriate. But do we risk teaching kids that its not OK to do your best and still lose? And do we cheapen the value of the prize by giving one to everyone? In the end, does it really matter and is it just more important to encourage kids and keep them interested long enough to stick with it?

Not sure if I have a hard and fast opinion on this one, what does everyone else think?

[hockeymum]

PS- if you post a response, please mention whether or not you have kids who play sports. I am curious if being a parent influences your opinion:)

[DannyG]

really had to think on this...

I have administered many local tournaments in a variety of sports for both kids and adults. In my special "puckapalooza" local tournaments, we always give awards, usually color coded, parchment paper certificates denoting gold, silver, bronze, copper, nickel-cadmium, etc, all the way through what would otherwise be referred to as "last place." Here, participation is the key element, so we give everybody somemthing to remember/highlight the accomplishment of being involved.

In the regular season of play, sometimes I have given certificates, but usually not, and we just have an applause-recognition ceremony for playoff champs. Sometimes a picture of the championship team for the bulletin board wall, then it's on to the next season. We have always stressed playing the game for the sake of enjoyment, win or lose.

I have always wanted kids to learn to play for the inner, self-satisfaction of a total effort, do your best, give it your all, persevere in the face of adversity...and succeed or fail grandly and gallantly. This feeling comes from within, from knowing you gave your all, and not from an extrinsic, "Mommy, did I do good?" mentality.

I want kids to learn to know within themselves that they "did good," without having to be told by others.

three kids, eldest now 37 years old, youngest 20, having played roller hockey for the past fifteen.

[cthingsclearly]

I am probably more opinionated on this subject than one should be, so I may have a hard time being objective about this.

I have always felt that trophies/medals/whatever should be EARNED. A certificate of participation is fine for younger kids, but those "participation trophies" drive me crazy. IMHO, a lot of advocates for that type of thing come from parents who don't want to deal with an upset, crying kid... you know, everyone should leave with something or it might damage little Johnnie's self esteem. Hey, there are winners and, for lack of a better term, "losers" in just about anything in life. As parents, we should encourage them to try harder if they want the bling. Didn't win the game at this tournament? Better luck next time,kid. Work harder, practice more. I can't tell you how many tournaments my son played in with his team before they ever won anything. We never made a big deal out of it. "Are you having fun?" we'd ask. "Yeah." Okay, then keep working harder. The win will come.

Now he has a whole wall full of medals. And you know what? They MEAN something to him because they were EARNED.

Same thing with grades... if you want your name on the honor roll board, or hope to get a scholarship, you have to earn it. You got an 89 and missed an "A" by one point? Too bad. Work harder next time. THAT'S LIFE.

Again, JMO.

[Rattler]

This is not as easy as some would think. I have two children. One 11-year old boy, and one 10-year old girl. My son plays house league, school league and travel. His answer is he would not want a trophy or medal unless he won it. This is not to say that he would throw the last place certificate in the trash, he just says he does not prize it as much as gold or silver. He still keeps everything, just some go into a box in the attic. He has taken the name plates off of a few a few and donated them to local Iron Man fund raiser or charity tournaments. He knows that sometime you give it your all, and play your best, and still come up short in the end.

My daughter plays just for fun. She is not competitive, and enjoys getting even a little something for her effort. It makes her feel good, especially when her older brother has so many awards that he has won over the years (not just hockey). I think either way you go, you will have some that are ok with it, and some who are not. Can't please everyone all the time. Whatever you choose to do, just make sure it is communicated up front, so there are no surprises at the end.

[growl89]

This is certainly a tough subject to comment on...

For the record, I have no kids hockeymum. And I am also extremely competative.

Growing up in mid to late 90's in jersey meant one thing. Very good roller hockey was around the area. NJ and Long Island were roller hockey hot beds. Tournaments filled every weekend on the schedule and a few of us were playing AAA ice in morning and then heading to bulldog, rapid fire, isca, or the colesium for top level roller hockey in the afternoon and evening. While I am on record as being an ice guy, the tournament scene in NJ was amazing for roller hockey back then. The point? With all of the talent that there was, there was only 1 division, with one set of medals. This made is very challenging and very rewarding to win those medals. Some weekends we would win, others we wouldn't. But I can tell you that on those weekends we didn't we were all pissed off and it made us play that much harder the next time out. I personally like when medals are scarce. (1 division) It makes you work hard and earn it.

I can tell you that being such a highly competative person can be a flaw at times. (it's not fun unless you are competing at the best of your ability) but I know that I would have HATED to be coddled with participation trophies, plaques, certificates, etc. Losing makes you work hard, it drives people.

Imagine if the 14 teams that missed the Stanley Cup playoffs got to play in a B bracket for the B division trophy... Or if there was a 'losers' bracket on the playoffs.

Again, I am not a parent, but I would like to think that if I was that I would encourage (more likely demand haha) harder work in order to succeed in what sport/venture is taken up by my son or daughter.

[Alvare71]

Well this is an easy topic to talk about for me having two sons, coached hundreds of kids in rec league and competitive travel team.

Travel------ no medals for everyone because you have to earn to get respect from other teams and it cannot be handed to you. You hurt the kids mentally, if you baby them for travel hockey. travel is for kids who want to learn at a high level.


Rec League-------- Who cares if you give an honorable medal to kids that are new and encourage them to stick with the sport, I have seen to many father coaches give their kids the most ice time and other kids never learn...

Give the kids a chance at a great sport..........So make the right decision to pick your coach that fits your kids needs.....


Listen to your child parents and coaches!

[quick_dry]

My views are what growl89 said, summed it up perfectly.

I think it is worrying if kids are going to be damaged by not receiving a medal/trophy at the end of the season - competitive or recreational. Particularly at a league level, maybe a participation certificate - but I dislike the 'everyone wins a prize' mentality.

Do kids who just play for fun really give away a sport because they don't get a shiny bauble at the end? (and if they do, how do you get their parents into some sort of parenting lessons seminar)

I rate this along with the kids comps that don't keep score, or have finals. Go and ask the kids who won, who scored how many points, and who is the best out there on the rink/field/court. They know, they keep score - and the kids who don't care, wouldn't care if they _did_ keep score. They're not there for that side of the game.

Keep the trophies exclusive, and let kids learn to win or lose graciously. Recently there has been literature coming out pointing out the flaws in the "don't keep score, everybody wins a prize" approach.

(I don't have kids, but I've coached kids of all ages from 6 and up)

[Alvare71]

My views are what growl89 said, summed it up perfectly.

I think it is worrying if kids are going to be damaged by not receiving a medal/trophy at the end of the season - competitive or recreational. Particularly at a league level, maybe a participation certificate - but I dislike the 'everyone wins a prize' mentality.

Do kids who just play for fun really give away a sport because they don't get a shiny bauble at the end? (and if they do, how do you get their parents into some sort of parenting lessons seminar)

I rate this along with the kids comps that don't keep score, or have finals. Go and ask the kids who won, who scored how many points, and who is the best out there on the rink/field/court. They know, they keep score - and the kids who don't care, wouldn't care if they _did_ keep score. They're not there for that side of the game.

Keep the trophies exclusive, and let kids learn to win or lose graciously. Recently there has been literature coming out pointing out the flaws in the "don't keep score, everybody wins a prize" approach.

(I don't have kids, but I've coached kids of all ages from 6 and up)

I like the certificate idea, why not give a kid certificate of accomplishment. Why not make kids feel they can complete something in this non-complete world. And hey they may stick with our sport even if its just a piece of paper to us.

[hockeymum]

lol all you guys, so glad i'm not the only meany out there! somehow we have become a society were everything has to be even all the time. good self esteem is important, but IMO it is not to be promoted at the expense of all other things.

in a beginners thing I like to see the emphasis put on fun, pride of participation and competition, etc. But I also like to see an award for participation at this stage or maybe pizza at the end or something- they have completed something to learn skills.

And I absolutely believe that it kills initiative once you move to more competitive levels. Why would little johnny bust his but in practice, when the whiny lazy kid who sits on the bench in practice gets just as much game time, and then everybody gets a trophy? Lets face it, if I want a raise at my job, I need to do more than just show up everyday and keep a chair warm. And yes, I might never be promoted to the vice president even if i work my butt off. My kids team may not win a tournament even if they work their butts off. But in the end, while hard to experience, do these need to be looked at as insurmountable life-crushing blows? If so we need to get a grip.

I had one of my kids ask me one time how it was possible that his team could come in 6th out of 6 teams and still come home with a medal. He didnt feel as though theyd earned it, but the tournament divided into tiers so everyone medaled. And this was not in a younger age bracket.

The important thing i guess is the right balance. Just for the record, I have multiple kids who play, and we've played at all different levels. we have experienced the good, bad and ugly...each had something to be learned.

[kevinsmithAZ]

lol all you guys, so glad i'm not the only meany out there! somehow we have become a society were everything has to be even all the time. good self esteem is important, but IMO it is not to be promoted at the expense of all other things.

in a beginners thing I like to see the emphasis put on fun, pride of participation and competition, etc. But I also like to see an award for participation at this stage or maybe pizza at the end or something- they have completed something to learn skills.

And I absolutely believe that it kills initiative once you move to more competitive levels. Why would little johnny bust his but in practice, when the whiny lazy kid who sits on the bench in practice gets just as much game time, and then everybody gets a trophy? Lets face it, if I want a raise at my job, I need to do more than just show up everyday and keep a chair warm. And yes, I might never be promoted to the vice president even if i work my butt off. My kids team may not win a tournament even if they work their butts off. But in the end, while hard to experience, do these need to be looked at as insurmountable life-crushing blows? If so we need to get a grip.

I had one of my kids ask me one time how it was possible that his team could come in 6th out of 6 teams and still come home with a medal. He didnt feel as though theyd earned it, but the tournament divided into tiers so everyone medaled. And this was not in a younger age bracket.

The important thing i guess is the right balance. Just for the record, I have multiple kids who play, and we've played at all different levels. we have experienced the good, bad and ugly...each had something to be learned.

This is EXACTLY why (well, one of the reasons) I have a problem with AAU's Junior Olympics and why I prefer NARCh. Once you divide to A, AA, and AAA, you don't need to split up AGAIN just so kids can win a medal. You already were placed with other teams at the same level as you, and from there you should all be playing for something.

[zipyaj]

The goal of the sport is not necessarily to create only Highly Competitive, Tournament Playing, Top-Ranked and Recruited Hockey Players.

If the sport is to grow, interest and participation over the long-term / lifecycle must be achieved and for all levels. And it starts with the grassroots and children who require positive reinforcement to flourish in everything they do.

Players:
Play for the fun of it, not just to please your parents or coach!
Concentrate on playing hockey and affecting the outcome of the game with your best effort. Work equally hard for your team as for yourself.
Be a good sport. Cheer all good plays, whether it is your team’s or your opponent’s.

Coaches:
Be reasonable in your demands on a young player's time, energy, enthusiasm and performance on the rink.
Impress on your players that they must abide by the Rules of the Game at all times (Respect the Game!).
Develop team respect for the ability of opponents and for the judgment of referees and opposing coaches.
Ensure that your players' hockey experience is one of fun and enjoyment (winning is only part of it).
Players should never be yelled at or ridiculed for making mistakes or losing a game.
Set a good example and be generous with your praise when it is deserved. Children need a coach they can respect.
Keep informed of sound principles of coaching, growth and child development.


KEEP THEM IN THE GAME.

(Parent, Coach, Director, Youth Sports Advocate)

[hockeymum]

it happens at regionals for series like TORHS and NARCH too. The example I gave was not an AAU event, but one of the previously mentioned, and I have seen it happen plenty of times at almost every series I can think of. The bigger National events are generally a different story, but lets face it most of everyones seasons are filled with the smaller events. Exceptions like the HUGE regional just held in CA are awesome, but not typical.

[quick_dry]

The goal of the sport is not necessarily to create only Highly Competitive, Tournament Playing, Top-Ranked and Recruited Hockey Players.

If the sport is to grow, interest and participation over the long-term / lifecycle must be achieved and for all levels. And it starts with the grassroots and children who require positive reinforcement to flourish in everything they do.
I can't imagine anyone would disagree on that - but I don't think you need to give trophies to everyone or shy away from recognising excellence in order to give kids positive feedback and keep them interested.

[kevinsmithAZ]

it happens at regionals for series like TORHS and NARCH too. The example I gave was not an AAU event, but one of the previously mentioned, and I have seen it happen plenty of times at almost every series I can think of. The bigger National events are generally a different story, but lets face it most of everyones seasons are filled with the smaller events. Exceptions like the HUGE regional just held in CA are awesome, but not typical.

That's true, they all do. I meant specifically at nationals.

[hockeymum]

agree zipyaj and kevin. but there is a distiction between developmental levels and competitive levels. that is why i think its hard to have a hard and fast opinion on this.

i really thought that there was something askew though when my son asked why he earned a medal for last place. he knows that tournaments are a competition and in competiton not everyone wins. that is OK, thats what i think we forget sometimes, that it is OK not to win. sometimes you just dont have the best team, sometimes you had a bad day, whatever the reason, its OK.

[STEMM]

it happens at regionals for series like TORHS and NARCH too. The example I gave was not an AAU event, but one of the previously mentioned, and I have seen it happen plenty of times at almost every series I can think of. The bigger National events are generally a different story, but lets face it most of everyones seasons are filled with the smaller events. Exceptions like the HUGE regional just held in CA are awesome, but not typical.

They do it at regional levels because there are single A teams, as well as AAA teams competing in round robin play. If the lower level teams don't leave the regional with something they may never come back.

Though I do agree that it is pretty weak that sometimes an 8th place team loses the club championship, gets no wins the entire tournamnet, and still walks away with a silver medal. While a 3rd place team has no loses in round-robin gets knocked out in first round of playoffs and walks away with nothing.

What would be nice is if teams would HONESTLY declare what level they are when they enter the tournament. That way the tournamnet director can schedule teams with-in two different tiers.

I have 1 kid,(plays house and travel).
I coach 8U, 10U, 12U, 14U house & 8U, 10U, 12U travel

[DannyG]

...i really thought that there was something askew though when my son asked why he earned a medal for last place. he knows that tournaments are a competition and in competiton not everyone wins...

I have had occasion to answer this one with the following:

"When you grow up, you're going to get a job. You'll probably be working with a bunch of other people, and some of them need to do their job well so you can do your job well. You help each other. Most jobs have some people that you can't depend on. They do lousy work, they don't care, and sometimes, they don't even show up.

"Even if you find that your job is something you start to dislike, you can still do your best every day, you can show up. So, this time in our tournament, I wanted to recognize all the players for just showing up and trying their best. Look around, how many players in our program didn't show up for this one? Every player who came to this tournament, and played the best they could, got a medal."

That explanation is usually accepted.

[quick_dry]

If the lower level teams don't leave the regional with something they may never come back.
I just find that mindset so sad/worrying/strange/weak/etc. "We didn't win, we're never coming back... oh.. hang on, they'll give us a shiny bauble... sweet, see you back here next year"

I heard this very sentiment expressed from a FIRS committee member at last world championships - along with teams being beaten soundly wouldn't ever come back (which is why we now degenerate into the most boring hockey ever with too much emphasis on limiting goals against). Missing the point that you go away to these things not just to win, but to test yourself against other players/teams, to improve and see where you sit when you go from your little pond to the big pond.