Nationals Suggestions for Next Year

[Ben Lambert]

Just wanted to throw a few things out there for next year.

1. LU and UMSL should never be on the same side of the bracket, especially when they're the only 2 GP teams in D1.

2. If a team is in the same pool as another team in JC, why would they not play each other? The system is FLAWED when a team that goes 3-0 has to play an extra game and a team that goes 1-2 doesn't.

3. More D2 Great Plains teams should be in the tournament next year if we are sticking with this year's format in the future. We really got hosed this year.

4. If we are going to have rules (i.e. earguards), why would we not abide by them? Especially after these rules had been touched on specifically in the captains meeting before the tournament even starts.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. Discuss.

[Ben Lambert]

One more I forgot. Why in the hell is the D2 championship AFTER the D1 game?? That makes a whole lot of sense.

[socalhockey]

Just wanted to throw a few things out there for next year.

1. LU and UMSL should never be on the same side of the bracket, especially when they're the only 2 GP teams in D1.

2. If a team is in the same pool as another team in JC, why would they not play each other? The system is FLAWED when a team that goes 3-0 has to play an extra game and a team that goes 1-2 doesn't.

3. More D2 Great Plains teams should be in the tournament next year if we are sticking with this year's format in the future. We really got hosed this year.

4. If we are going to have rules (i.e. earguards), why would we not abide by them? Especially after these rules had been touched on specifically in the captains meeting before the tournament even starts.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. Discuss.

I would assume it's because Lindenwood and UMSL finished #2 and #3 in pool A where they both had records of 1-1-1. Where as Buffalo being the #1 in pool A with a 2-1 record was put in the same bracket as the 1-2 #4 Michigan State. Makes perfect sense to me. If Lindenwood and UMSL would have finished #1 and #2 in pool A they would have been in the opposite bracket. I believe the format and the way the brackets were set up was great. It put a lot of importance to the pool play. (as it should).

[Ben Lambert]

I would assume it's because Lindenwood and UMSL finished #2 and #3 in pool A where they both had records of 1-1-1. Where as Buffalo being the #1 in pool A with a 2-1 record was put in the same bracket as the 1-2 #4 Michigan State. Makes perfect sense to me. If Lindenwood and UMSL would have finished #1 and #2 they would have been in the opposite bracket.

I understand why it happened. I'm saying that it shouldn't have.

[letsgoisles89]

I understand why it happened. I'm saying that it shouldn't have.
then they both shouldve done better in their pool. if theyre gonna finish #2 and #3 in pool A there shouldnt be any exceptions for them.

[ISFN]

The one main downfall to the way pools were set up was that it hurt teams who (a) only have a few guys and/or (b) rely on certain guys

I can guarantee Buffalo would have gone further and may have won it if the set up wasn't like it was this year, they had 6 guys and were done by the pool play because they played all top teams. It benefited Lindenwood because of their deep bench. This is only my assumption, but I would bet that Buffalo would vote to change this format.

We shouldn't cater to the weaker teams by allowing them to play equal opponents in round robin play that's ridiculous, everyone makes playoffs so whats it matter if they lose all their rr games they still end up with a bad seed just like they did this year, you could of easily set up a fair round robin by taking 1 team from each pool and creating a pool out of that, that's the way it should of been done.

[socalhockey]

then they both shouldve done better in their pool. if theyre gonna finish #2 and #3 in pool A there shouldnt be any exceptions for them.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The brackets were set up perfectly for a Lindenwood/UMSL final, except they both didn't take care of business in their pool. The better team, that being ASU deserved and proved that they belonged in the final.

Congratulations to Lindenwood on another championship season and to ASU on a great run by a great team. Next year should be even more competitive, as many of the top teams return a lot of their key players and I know a few will be adding some more top level players as well.

[NCSU17]

I liked the D1 setup, it seemed like the games were alot closer than usual

[hockeykid12]

sounds like sour grapes on UMSL part because they didnt do well in pool play. But maybe next year NCRHA will just say ok UMSL is the onlyyyyy team that can beat LU so lets put them in a seat to just get to the finals and play LU...

If you took care of business in your pool you would have had that seat.

[ianmackie]

I won't fault the league for trying something new. The Pools make sense, but can be altered. What about Top 8, next 8, and final 8 in D1? The difference for two short bench teams like ASU and Buffalo was obvious. It isn't about LU and UMSL, it's about the top team in Pool A being drained by the time they were in the Semi's. The deeper bench helped us immensely this year and I am pretty sure more teams will think that way in the future. My problem with the way it is set up was that it hurt the top team more then helped the bottom team...the top team being Buffalo. This Pool issue just needs to be tweaked a little.

The fact that SIUE and Missouri State finished 1, 2 in the Great Plains Region and then went to Nationals to only be put into the same bracket is a joke. If you play each other in the playoffs then people get it, but this was in their control and they blew it. The Great Plains Region had 2 teams and somehow they had to play each other?

The Junior College bracket was a mess. Just go 6 teams in the same bracket and go from there. Pretty easy.

Good conversation starter Ben!

[letsgoisles89]

I liked the D1 setup, it seemed like the games were alot closer than usual

to my suprise, the D-1 set-up worked out well (given the crappy situation of 21 teams). I didn't like the idea at first but it did work out well and made for more exciting games.

The only thing that could have made d-1 nationals better would have been if 24 teams to showed up.

[Ben Lambert]

sounds like sour grapes on UMSL part because they didnt do well in pool play. But maybe next year NCRHA will just say ok UMSL is the onlyyyyy team that can beat LU so lets put them in a seat to just get to the finals and play LU...

If you took care of business in your pool you would have had that seat.

Do you ever come up with anything of substance or do you just get on the boards to try (poorly) to discredit and argue with everyone who's not your buddy?

I'm not affiliated with UMSL any longer, so it has nothing to do with me personally. UMSL is the only team who's ever beaten LU in a championship game (once in regionals and once at nationals), so right now, yeah, they are the "onlyyyyyy" team who can beat LU when it counts.

We took care of business in our pool, but still got shafted in our bracket. Yet another reason why JC should be absorbed into D1/D2/D3 and have the same requirements (credit hours, uniforms, etc) as the other teams in the respective division and be done with it.

[RowanPhil]

Do you ever come up with anything of substance or do you just get on the boards to try (poorly) to discredit and argue with everyone who's not your buddy?

I'm not affiliated with UMSL any longer, so it has nothing to do with me personally. UMSL is the only team who's ever beaten LU in a championship game (once in regionals and once at nationals), so right now, yeah, they are the "onlyyyyyy" team who can beat LU when it counts.

We took care of business in our pool, but still got shafted in our bracket. Yet another reason why JC should be absorbed into D1/D2/D3 and have the same requirements (credit hours, uniforms, etc) as the other teams in the respective division and be done with it.

if you are not affilated with umsl, why did you say "we took care of business in our pool"......
buffalo played with lindenwood in pool play, they shouldnt be playing with 6 guys, which killed them at the end.

[dan sangiorgio]

Ben what would be your suggestion in setting up the brackets instead oF the way it was done. Also what does it matter if you face lindenwood in the final four or the finals would u or anyone from umsl felt better with a second place finish rather then third I know I wouldn't. it seemed to me there were 5 teams at nationals with a chance of winning and you all made it past the other teams equally easy for the most part

[teamcarramrod]

Just wanted to throw a few things out there for next year.

1. LU and UMSL should never be on the same side of the bracket, especially when they're the only 2 GP teams in D1.

2. If a team is in the same pool as another team in JC, why would they not play each other? The system is FLAWED when a team that goes 3-0 has to play an extra game and a team that goes 1-2 doesn't.

3. More D2 Great Plains teams should be in the tournament next year if we are sticking with this year's format in the future. We really got hosed this year.

4. If we are going to have rules (i.e. earguards), why would we not abide by them? Especially after these rules had been touched on specifically in the captains meeting before the tournament even starts.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. Discuss.

lol on number 2

[William Bourque]

If you play each other in the playoffs then people get it, but this was in their control and they blew it. The Great Plains Region had 2 teams and somehow they had to play each other?

Although it is pretty lame to have two teams from the same region, the objective was to create balanced pools, and avoid teams from the same region playing in the elimination round. Moving these teams around would have thrown the balance out of whack. Overall the DII seedings committee did a good job with where they placed the teams.

In the end both SIUE and Missouri State were on the opposite sides of the bracket and each of them were eliminated by WCU.



The Junior College bracket was a mess. Just go 6 teams in the same bracket and go from there. Pretty easy.

Good conversation starter Ben!

I think the JC format was great. It ensured that all 3 WCRHL teams played the other 3 JC teams from around the country in the pool play. From there, it happened that there were 2, 3-0 teams and one of them didn't get a bye, while the other had to play a "weaker team to get into the semis.

The 3-0 team that 'deserved' a bye needed overtime to beat an 0-3 team and then lost to the 1-2 team that won the bye.

I think the format was fine.

[William Bourque]

This is only my assumption, but I would bet that Buffalo would vote to change this format.

Buffalo seemed to enjoy the format when talking to them at the tournament.

[uconnhockey1]

To the league's credit- Buffalo played with 7-8 guys most of the year. They got a bit unlucky when one of their defensemen broke his leg at the last regional of the year, and one of their players was ruled academically ineligible. That being said...I don't think the pools were flawed very much at all, for D-I that is.

I agree with Bill on the JC format- you have 3 WCRHL teams there and you want to avoid having them play each other as much as possible.

That being said, I guess the big question (across all divisions) is whether or not the teams if faced with a choice of playing a team within their region, do you want to face them in the round robin, or in the elimination rounds? It seems inevitable that it will happen either way.

Ben, I agree- it really was unfortunate that SIUE and MO State had to play each other in the RR. I will disagree about the D-I format. I think it was really good this year, and made for exciting games all around. Otherwise, we may have seen Lindenwood beat Sam Houston State 22-0, and that is just no fun for anyone involved. It makes the regular season count, and beyond that, it gives teams a reason to really show up for pool play.

[ISFN]

Buffalo seemed to enjoy the format when talking to them at the tournament.

Did you talk to them before or after they lost to ASU? Quit giving weaker teams the benefit and allowing them to maybe get a win or two in rr play, if they don't want to come to nationals and play in a normal rr then don't come, nationals would of been just fine with 16 teams in D1.

[GoRangrHky]

I don't feel bad at all for teams that show up with 6-7 guys or rely on one or two people to be successful. This is a team sport, and ultimately the better teams prevailed. Buffalo's B team was there, and any of those kids could have played, and they are plenty talented and could play at the DI level.

As far as playing teams from your region in the rr, yeah it kind of sucks (we flew literally across the continent to play a school that's about 20 miles from our campus), but you still have to keep the competitive balance.

Still, the DI pools were much better and made for some more interesting hockey all weekend. Since the final results don't matter THAT much, its really just like they made a bracket beforehand. I'm all for keeping it next year.

[Ben Lambert]

if you are not affilated with umsl, why did you say "we took care of business in our pool"......
buffalo played with lindenwood in pool play, they shouldnt be playing with 6 guys, which killed them at the end.

Because I coach STLCC-Meramec

[Ben Lambert]

I don't want people to get me wrong, obviously the NCRHA is doing a lot right. I feel like it's the best roller hockey league in the country. I wouldn't still be involved if I didn't feel that way about it.

Bill--

Perhaps it took us OT to beat the 0-3 team because our guys were tired from busting ass to win out in our RR so we wouldn't have to play til 9:45 that night. It was kind of a mind F for my guys to go so hard to achieve a 3-0 record then not receive the fruits of our labor. That is most likely my fault as a coach to allow my players to lose their poise.

My question is simply that if we were in the same pool as St. Charles, why did we not play them in the RR? Other divisions played all the teams in their brackets (UMSL played LU, for example). It would have left less of a sour taste for all of us if we would have at least had the chance to settle the top seed in our pool by playing St. Charles instead of going by goals against.

I am right about that, quit trying to tell me I'm wrong.

[ianmackie]

One thing I would like to point out was the overall better feel to this year's Nationals. The NCRHA staff did a great job of making the rink look like a special event and the added announcing of goals and music was top notch. I really do think little things like that make an event better.

[William Bourque]

I am right about that, quit trying to tell me I'm wrong.

It is obvious that trying to explain/converse about it with you would be fruitless.

[William Bourque]

Did you talk to them before or after they lost to ASU?

I talked to them throughout the tournament. However, I did not talk to them after that loss.

If I recall, at least one of them has an account here and posts time to time. I don't want to speak for them, when it would only be speculation on my part.

[chickentender65]

stephan F austin should play better/different regionals games instead of playing the same 3 teams so their trip to nationals is a waste of money and time. take a trip to the SECRHL during the season.

for those of us who didnt go, watching on ustream was pretty nice. kinda glitchy for a couple of games but worked real well during the playoff games. sound would make it 100000000x better though

[cusanorojo]

The one thing that was poorly setup for D1 was the fact that the teams had to play a quarter final and semi final in one day and the day before the teams only had to play one game at night... should've had the prelim and quarters in the same day if possible.. I know some of the lower seeded teams had to play a play in game earlier that day but something should've been setup so quarters and semis are not on the same day. Semis and finals should both be the only game a team has that day.

[MBurke]

watching on ustream was pretty nice. kinda glitchy for a couple of games but worked real well during the playoff games. sound would make it 100000000x better though

This was our first attempt at the video and we didn't plan a few things right (like having the sound / play-by-play too far from the camera to run wire properly.

I think we're going to try to push this regionally where possible next year, which means a lot of these kinks should be worked out.

[danglsauce]

Buffalo did like the way it was set up. Mainly because they knew going in if they did lose 3 games they would still end up with a top 4 seed.

A suggestion for Next years nationals. Instead of going from wednesday to sunday i say go from thursday to monday. Teams miss the same amount of days of school but i found traveling on the weekend was a lot more exspensive.

Also last year in feasterville they had seeding meetings. So i say you still do the same format as this year for pool play but have a meeting this way if a team that was a 5-8 seed dominates in their pool and a 1-4 seed gets dominated then the two could flip-flop. I think by using both regular season and national pool play games to determine seeds is the best way to go about it.

[William Bourque]

Also last year in feasterville they had seeding meetings. So i say you still do the same format as this year for pool play but have a meeting this way if a team that was a 5-8 seed dominates in their pool and a 1-4 seed gets dominated then the two could flip-flop. I think by using both regular season and national pool play games to determine seeds is the best way to go about it.

The entire point of the format, across all divisions this year was to eliminate the seedings meeting. I would not be a fan of bringing them back. Also, the 4 seed could argue, that if they were the 5th seed, they could have ran over teams 6,7,8..etc. It lends itself to more criticism.

[GMU18]

Next year Nationals should be held in FT. myers florida. If i'm gonna be paying to travel to a tournament for a week. I want it to be in a vaction destination.

- They have 3 rinks..
- The rinks are nice
- Theres a lot to do
- Its warm
- Hotels are literally on the beach.

[FAUplayer]

Next year Nationals should be held in FT. myers florida. If i'm gonna be paying to travel to a tournament for a week. I want it to be in a vaction destination.

- They have 3 rinks..
- The rinks are nice
- Theres a lot to do
- Its warm
- Hotels are literally on the beach.

Apparently, you may be close..... ;) Palm Beach Skatezone is pushing to try and host Nationals. With Torhs under their belt, I think they can pull off a great National tournament having learned their lesson last year.

Also, the rink in Estero, not Ft Myers, has three rinks plus an arena rink. Problem is I think the event is too small to be held at such a large facility for as many days as its held. Hotels are about 20-25 minutes from rink that are on beach, with a bunch of hotels within 5 minutes (was nice in San Jose having our beautiful hotel 7 minutes away). Narch hasnt been back to Estero in a while, and not sure how true it is but have heard they will not go back there. The Ft Myers Skatium is a great 1 roller rink 1 ice rink facility, I always enjoy going there a few times a year for events. Maybe they can cover the ice rink?

In any case, I am retired from hockey now, so that would be nice if it was somewhere in Florida as it would definitely be worth a few hours drive for me to go and watch.

[GoRangrHky]

Apparently its too cold for some people at the HOCKEY TOURNAMENT

[Ben Lambert]

Florida would be a good choice. It's at least drivable for a lot of the clubs, unlike CA which is an easy drive for west coast league teams only. Either way, as long as its not in an ECRHA or west coast venue I would be a fan.

I'm definitely down to have it in Florida. Keep it where the weather is nice.

Too bad Matteson screwed up and abandoned 2 rinks or we could have it in St. Louis again.

[FAUplayer]

From what I have been told, the issue with going to Skatezone in Lake Worth is that there's 1 roller rink and two ice rinks, and the rink is pushing for only 1 rink to be converted to roller for the tournament, and leave the "main" rink as ice. Anyone who was at Torhs nationals would understand why; the main rink is in an adjacent building and it wasn't setup to be converted to roller, but the other ice rink use to be roller and it shares the building with the roller rink, so that rink was fine.

It was nice going to San Jose, for myself at least. I have not been to west coast in 3 years since high school nationals were in Anaheim, so it was nice to go back to the west coast. For those complaining, I thought the weather was great except Sunday and Monday. It is nice to be out in the sun and not break a sweat (no humidity!). The setting was great too with having the facility at the bottom of a mountain and just being surrounded by mountains (Florida is flat). Wish my team did better, but none the less I had an amazing time in San Jose and a decent finish to my competitive hockey days.

Side note, anyone know about the photography company hosting photos online (didn't catch if it was photoreflect or idi photo, and didn't see the event on either website).

[GoRangrHky]

I'd be in favor of Colorado. I unfortunately wasn't able to go to the last one, but I heard it was great. I'm sure teams on the east don't want to go west again, but there's honestly not many places around that can handle it.

[MBurke]

Side note, anyone know about the photography company hosting photos online (didn't catch if it was photoreflect or idi photo, and didn't see the event on either website).

It was idi - we're working with them to get the photos up. They aren't posted yet, but once they have them up we'll have a link from the main NCRHA site.

[William Bourque]

I'd be in favor of Colorado. I unfortunately wasn't able to go to the last one, but I heard it was great. I'm sure teams on the east don't want to go west again, but there's honestly not many places around that can handle it.

Colorado was my favorite destination for nationals:

Colorado Springs - simply amazing, wish I had more time.
San Jose - came a close second to the Springs
Feasterville - even though it was held 15 minutes from my house, it was better than St. Louis and North Carolina

[CraigBrodz]

I loved Colorado (Fort Collins) for nationals, right on Campus of Colorado State, my team was out quick so it made for a fun time the last couple of days being on Campus and going to random house party's.

I also played NARCH in Florida I think it was Estero couple of years ago the facility was real nice, and I think could hold a nice tourney.

[GoRangrHky]

Yeah, Fort Collins was great. Had our best post-hockey time there. Plus the go kart track was awesome.

I liked St. Louis better than Feasterville, personally. And I know that the NCRHA prefers 3 rink facilities, but I'd rather have a few off hour games and end up in a better place than get stuck somewhere bad but with a third rink.

[DieselBurns]

1. LU and UMSL should never be on the same side of the bracket, especially when they're the only 2 GP teams in D1.


This could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, ever. In life.

Hey you might want to tell FIFA that having Germany and England meet in the second round should be against the rules.

[RowanPhil]

i was told that nationals would have been chosen by now.... hmm that side of the agreement wasnt held up

[mustachemarty5]

This could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, ever. In life.

Hey you might want to tell FIFA that having Germany and England meet in the second round should be against the rules.


HAHAHA...thats great, completely agree

[ECUHockey]

Has anyone heard anything? I am just curious....