TRULY "pro" inline hockey

[ACCCT2]

Take a gander at what the PIHA, AIHL and MLRH-whatever can only DREAM about marketing & fan-base wise, let alone game-speed/excitement-wise (YES, the smaller converted gymnasium courts actually speed-up the play and make the game a LOT more visually exciting -- very much like indoor lacrosse or soccer) --

http://www.grenews.com/article.jspz?article=17773&xtor=RSS-167

http://www.yetisonline.com/index.php?edit=video&theme=match_elite

http://www.rollerhockeyfrance.com/2009/11/15/video-amiens-caen-elite/

http://www.rollerhockeyfrance.com/2009/11/27/video-amiens-lille-elite/

http://www.youtube.com/user/VipersAsiago#p/u/6/bReH6IfOAdk

And probably the BEST of all, a TEAM promo video (shot at a practice/training session!) that BLOWS AWAY ANYTHING even the NHL is doing, let alone the PIHA, AIHL or MLRH-whatever --

Hawks d' Angers Promo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rMJJWs9zbI

[teamcarramrod]

Too small. Not cool at all.

[Alvare71]

Too small. Not cool at all.

What is not cool? Its promoting Roller Hockey?

I think that video is amazing and I know here in Hollywood I can get a Producer and camera for 300 to 600 a day!

And that is a great quality video!

[Patn Lawton]

Thanks for sharing the videos. I don't envy any team playing in a gymnasium on hardwood floor, but I think most of us would go play outside in a parking lot if we had to.

I think it would be interesting to have someone knowledgeable inform everyone of what professional roller hockey is like over in Europe. Every once in a while hear of a US player getting selected to go play over in Europe somewhere for a season and get compensated (fairly well?) for it.

Hopefully insight could be provided regarding how it became more popular, how those teams are able to provide compensation to players, how they built a large fanbase, etc.

***This is not an invitation/prompt for people to insult AIHL/PIHA/MLRH***

[jawz&chum]

This is the league that Itan Chavira played in. We have 2 players at our rink here that also played in the french league and loved it, not a new league at all.

They're doing a lot right.

Great videos.

[ACCCT2]

Thanks for sharing the videos. I don't envy any team playing in a gymnasium on hardwood floor, but I think most of us would go play outside in a parking lot if we had to.

I think it would be interesting to have someone knowledgeable inform everyone of what professional roller hockey is like over in Europe. Every once in a while hear of a US player getting selected to go play over in Europe somewhere for a season and get compensated (fairly well?) for it.

Hopefully insight could be provided regarding how it became more popular, how those teams are able to provide compensation to players, how they built a large fanbase, etc.

***This is not an invitation/prompt for people to insult AIHL/PIHA/MLRH***

Actually, as I stated in another thread regarding this subject, it's interesting, 'cuz in Europe the inline hockey game is thriving -- well organized and growing, they generally have a great on-court presence and totally professional package which, with the various national "Eite" leagues from different countries, could very easily be re-packaged and marketed as a 'continental' and truly (paid-to-play) "professional" league worthy of ad, sponsor and broadcast monies and audience.

All over Europe basketball and (with the exception of maybe netball), indoor "ball/gymnasium" sports are dying, with gyms everywhere quickly being converted to indoor inline hockey rinks (by basically adding the curved corners) that are booked solid with leagues and team training sessions at every level. And the "Elite" and "N-1"/"N-2" games in especially countries like Austria, France, Italy, Germany and Switzerland are usually packed with hundreds of fans during the regular season, with the playoffs seeing thousands and standing room only 'paid' gates. Definitely a MUCH BETTER marketing of the sport than our "pro" leagues have very clumsily and amateurishly managed to cobble together on this side of the pond.

As for the "not cool" comment regarding the smaller "gymnasium" game -- frankly, no one can convince me that the smaller rinks ("gymnasium" or otherwise) aren't MUCH MORE condusive to a faster-paced, constantly back-&-forth, up-&-down 'ballistic' game that is MUCH MUCH MORE visually appealing than the 'slow' looking games played on the larger ice-hockey sized facilities -- a thoroughly unfortunate defaulted inheritance from the ice game that in my mind should definitely be re-thought (just one play on a facility like the 25% smaller KPCC in Hong Kong or the 15% smaller Odeum in Chicago will convince one of the smaller rink's better "ballistic" play qualities). Also, it's interesting to note that even in terms of their uni's, the Europeans' sleeker, more 'fitted' look once again blows away the 'baggy' and almost tent-like and totally ill-fitting "off-the-rack" look that North Americans are so sadly known for in the fashion world as a whole -- honestly, the Euro's are MUCH BETTER designed, outfitted and presented than generally anything over here.

Amazingly, in my own humble opinion, North America is being thoroughly beaten in its own marketing game, something we're supposed to be expert at in terms of being able to 'package' and 'sell' virtually anything to anyone -- but apparently NOT in regards to our own home-grown game. Here in the USA, we (and I use the word "we" in a very NON-alligned, NON-allied, NON-productive and totally self-centered way) clearly are letting what little "BIG-time" or "pro" credibility and potential the game might've once had slowly but surely slip away into the meaningless money-pit abyss of the totally meaningless plethora of totally meaningless "championships" where, as I've said many times before, the ONLY paid-to-play "pro's" are those running the events.


This is the league that Itan Chavira played in. We have 2 players at our rink here that also played in the french league and loved it, not a new league at all.

They're doing a lot right.

Great videos.

"They're doing a lot right." -- is definitely an understatement, especially when compared to what passes for "pro" inline hockey in North America (...for the last few years, anyway).;)

[GSJaguars11]

just curious. if say a "middle of the pack" team from that league came to narch finals what division would you say they fit in best?

[BourneRoller]

I don't know a lot about the european Pro leagues except that each team is allowed two foreign players and that they make between 15-20K for 6-8mo of work. Not a lot of money but certainly comparable to lower Pro and semi-pro ice hockey. I dont know this for sure, but I have heard that many of the teams are aligned with pro-ice teams. Not all of the players play both but some. Sure beats working at Home Depot for the summer! I would love to watch some games.
I actually play at the KPCC in Hong Kong and I can tell you the smaller court is a lot of fun. You still need to skate but you really need to be quick with the puck. I personally think it makes the game better to watch from the stands. However, that is just my opinion. I think what is important is that we accept that the ability to play anywhere (an NHL, European Ice, 75% size, converted gym or santa monica parking lot!) is one of the real advantages this game has. We should encourage it, not poo-poo it because it is different. I think this could be part of the reason inline struggles a bit in NA, the fans can be pretty snobb-ish. In europe they just seem to want to play!

[BourneRoller]

I was thinking about GCJaguars question and got to thinking. While I dont know how the average european pro team would fair at Narch, is it really important?
- Where will inline in europe be in 10 years vs NA? I would think these pro leagues are just what the doctor ordered in NA. These guys train, practice and get paid to do it. These countries will be light years ahead of us if we dont keep up.
- $$$ It proves it can be done. Some of these pro leagues have been around since 1998, they wouldn't be around if they didn't, at least, support themselves.
- What would you rather do, play on big tourney or play a whole season. Besides the fact that you only have a chance at small cash in NARCh pro.
- my opinion is not ment to bash narch. I personally think that is should be turned into something like these pro leagues in Europe. With the finals played at the Narch finals! Just an idea.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I don't know a lot about the european Pro leagues except that each team is allowed two foreign players and that they make between 15-20K for 6-8mo of work.


You are correct about the number of foreign players allowed but the amount of money and time are way off. It depends on the team and the player but its not that high and most of the time its in the form of living expenses, etc.

[minutemen]

great video. I like the helmet camera and close up action. Best Roller Hockey video i have seen. As for playing on a smaller rink, it has its good points and bad. I used to own a small rink and NJ, and it is definitely a home rink advantage when you play those teams from big rinks.

The advantages to small rinks is quicker moving of the puck. Teams do not have room to spread it out and hold onto the puck, so more like ice hockey. Also allows more moves from individuals players. Now most people do not like small rinks they rather be able to spread it out. The disadvantage to always playing on a small rink is when you have to play on a big rink, its is hard to adapt. same goes for teams that play on big and have to adapt to small.

Personally I like playing on both rinks. I am definitely used to playing on the small, but like to change it up once in awhile. Definitely a different style of game to watch on a small rink. So for those haters of small rinks, and those that always make fun of them, stop and think that at least there is a rink to play at. Most people do not have the money nor the space to make a big or multiple rink facility. I think it adds to the game, like the old Boston Garden. It was small rink. Not all MLB parks are the same size and that each ballpark is unique. New and old Yankee stadium always had a short right field, and people would always say in any other park and that is a pop out.

[ACCCT2]

And "more" --

Lions HC Arrezzo (Italian) team game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5hWfyTG2s

CPLV vs EDERA TRIESTE 1904 in the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS CUP 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGyJEhEDhUo&feature=related

An interesting insight on a the HC Spiders de Rouen (Frencn) team training/game preparation -- it's truly amazing that they were getting essentially a regional level TV broadcast/feature coverage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLmvFGSo-E&feature=related

From the French "Elite" league: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIOpfRx4b94&feature=related

And Caen/Mondial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdUeuRznakw&feature=related

And even more from Italy, the Asaiago Vipers (Quarter-final '09 promo -- shows that even 'stills' when creatively edited can be very effective): http://www.youtube.com/user/VipersAsiago

More from the Asiago Vipers (Quarter-final '08 promo): http://www.youtube.com/user/VipersAsiago#p/u/4/vH7GrtTwp44

More from the Asiago Vipers (Semi-final '08 promo): http://www.youtube.com/user/VipersAsiago#p/u/3/I9UFFCH3huQ

[CraigBrodz]

I haven't watched all the videos, however, I did watch what was first posted. I think that the smaller rink makes that game a lot quicker with more end to end action. I don't think roller hockey will be a successful sport here in The U.S. if it is continued to be played how it is.
I would like to see a rule instituted that teams can not sit behind the net with the puck and wait. It makes the game boring. Really who wants to watch someone stand with the puck for a minute behind the net.
This is just my opinion but the way the game is played here it is really not fun too much fun to watch. More people were watching the little skate safe T.V.'s to watch football this weekend than the games on the rink, that has to say something about the way the game is being played, I feel like It could be so much more fun and high paced to watched than it already is. Maybe this is the reason why roller hockey seems to be more successful in Europe?

Craig Brodmerkel
Long Island 495ers #31

[teamcarramrod]

I haven't watched all the videos, however, I did watch what was first posted. I think that the smaller rink makes that game a lot quicker with more end to end action. I don't think roller hockey will be a successful sport here in The U.S. if it is continued to be played how it is.
I would like to see a rule instituted that teams can not sit behind the net with the puck and wait. It makes the game boring. Really who wants to watch someone stand with the puck for a minute behind the net.
This is just my opinion but the way the game is played here it is really not fun too much fun to watch. More people were watching the little skate safe T.V.'s to watch football this weekend than the games on the rink, that has to say something about the way the game is being played, I feel like It could be so much more fun and high paced to watched than it already is. Maybe this is the reason why roller hockey seems to be more successful in Europe?

Craig Brodmerkel
Long Island 495ers #31

watch the video. the floor is relatively small and makes the game more crowded. Now I play on a rink that is 177' x 76,' and that size rink is not considered small at all. But, if you go much smaller your taking away from the game. But i prefer the larger rinks like 185 ft. x 85 ft or even nhl size type rinks. If roller hockey is supposed to be crowded then play 5 v 5 on a regular rink. The small rink takes away from what roller hockey is. And to the comment about sitting behind the net, if you sit behind the net for more than 5 seconds your retarded, plus most refs tell you to move if you do.

[CraigBrodz]

In my experience they just tell you to move the puck after 5 seconds, but no one really does. I agree too crowded is no good, but to my understanding pro tournament roller hockey is very slow, and teams like to slow the speed of the game down. And I have seen some teams sit with puck for a while in their own end. I just really feel like there is a way to make it more exciting for fans. Granted I am still new to roller hockey, just some observations, either way hockey is fun and enjoyable to play. I just read a lot on here about ideas of how to market this sport, and make people come down to the rink and watch more hockey, cause the most of the players in this league are very skilled. Maybe the way the game is played is what needs to be looked at in order to make it a more marketable sport.

Craig Brodmerkel
Long Island 495ers #31

[ACCCT2]

...if you go much smaller your taking away from the game.

Define what you mean by this rather factually unsupported statement, as 'proportionately' speaking, the smaller rink plays much faster and much more like the speed and 'flow' of the 'ice' game because you 'engage' the opposing teams and systems on a much more constant and ever-changing basis -- and frankly, played on an ice hockey sized rink, I'm sorry, but even the BEST players and teams look 'slow' and 'sluggish' ("lugging-the-puck" never had a better "slow-sounding" definition) and the game looks almost boring compared to the "smaller/gymnasium-rinked" European one, no doubt about that.;)

[Number25]

Is Greg Thompson on the team featured in the video? And a player from the Mudcats, I don't know his name but I think he is from Chicago?
Also, how much do roller hockey players make over seas? Do they have jobs on top of playing pro roller? Are the games on TV?

[teamcarramrod]

Define what you mean by this rather factually unsupported statement, as 'proportionately' speaking, the smaller rink plays much faster and much more like the speed and 'flow' of the game because you 'engage' the opposing teams and systems on a much more constant and ever-changing basis -- and frankly, played on an ice hockey sized rink, I'm sorry, but even the BEST players and teams look 'slow' and 'sluggish' ("lugging-the-puck" never had a better "slow-sounding" definition) and the game looks almost boring compared to the "smaller/gymnasium-rinked" European one, no doubt about that.;)

Sorry, I didn't know I was being graded on whether or not I have supporting sentences. My point is that with smaller rinks you just crowd the floor more. It basically reverts right back to ice hockey because the majority of the floor is covered (which cause unneeded congestion) and it makes it harder to move. That right there is not roller hockey; roller hockey is a game of puck control where you work the puck into the opposing team's zone. Not by forcing passes or even going as far as dumping and chasing.

[pittsburgh26]

ramrod,

Don't knock it until you have seen it firsthand. I played on the FIRS USA team this past summer at the World Games in Taiwan and the rink was a lot different than what we play on here.

The rink was shorter in length, but it was extremely wide. The rink made every game great to watch. When we played, it felt similar to all the ice hockey I've played. You get the puck and move it quickly, but it still, and will always be more of a possession game as opposed to ice.

No one is saying you have to dump and chase... But with a smaller rink you have less of the bs, where people sit behind the net for 3 minutes at a time.

Inline hockey will NEVER make is as a pro sport in this country the way it is played now, it is simply too boring.

I'll try to upload some footage of our games so everyone has a idea of what I'm talking about.

The Taiwanese fans loved our games and the excitement. We had an average of at least 2000-3000 fans a game, and in the championship against France the place was sold out, around 4500-5000 I was told. On top of that hundreds of people surrounded the locker rooms daily for autographs and pictures.

Some people from the World Games staff thought if we had been placed in a bigger arena closer to the city (Kaohsiung) we might have got 7000-10000 fans a game.

Just a players perspective.

Dustin Roux
Pittsburgh Bandits

[ACCCT2]

Sorry, I didn't know I was being graded on whether or not I have supporting sentences. My point is that with smaller rinks you just crowd the floor more. It basically reverts right back to ice hockey because the majority of the floor is covered (which cause unneeded congestion) and it makes it harder to move. That right there is not roller hockey; roller hockey is a game of puck control where you work the puck into the opposing team's zone. Not by forcing passes or even going as far as dumping and chasing.

Actually, "pittsburgh26" (below) has it spot-on in terms of why the game is much more entertaining and exciting on virtually every level in the smaller rinks -- you name it, whether it's the fan or sponsor, the naturally 'quicker', more skill-dependant "smaller/gymnasium" game is much more of a winner.

Frankly, the amount of seemingly endless 'free' space on the larger court allows and encouragess a 'slowing-down' of the game, with only desperate last-minute efforts or the occassional breakaway as anything worthy of making what few fans might actually be there rise. Just so you all know, in some parts of Europe the "Elite" games are even televised and are regularly a part of the sports news round-ups.


ramrod,

Don't knock it until you have seen it firsthand. I played on the FIRS USA team this past summer at the World Games in Taiwan and the rink was a lot different than what we play on here.

The rink was shorter in length, but it was extremely wide. The rink made every game great to watch. When we played, it felt similar to all the ice hockey I've played. You get the puck and move it quickly, but it still, and will always be more of a possession game as opposed to ice.

No one is saying you have to dump and chase... But with a smaller rink you have less of the bs, where people sit behind the net for 3 minutes at a time.

Inline hockey will NEVER make is as a pro sport in this country the way it is played now, it is simply too boring.

I'll try to upload some footage of our games so everyone has a idea of what I'm talking about.

The Taiwanese fans loved our games and the excitement. We had an average of at least 2000-3000 fans a game, and in the championship against France the place was sold out, around 4500-5000 I was told. On top of that hundreds of people surrounded the locker rooms daily for autographs and pictures.

Some people from the World Games staff thought if we had been placed in a bigger arena closer to the city (Kaohsiung) we might have got 7000-10000 fans a game.

Just a players perspective.

Dustin Roux
Pittsburgh Bandits

ABSOLUTELY WELL-SAID and REASONED, Dustin -- and UNLIKE a lot of 'house-league' and 'local-only' players and so-called "experts", YOU have the unique position of having both played and experienced the game and 'game-atmosphere' at the HIGHEST levels internationally. I think that your "with a smaller rink you have less of the bs, where people sit behind the net for 3 minutes at a time", as well as your "players perspective" impressions that generally the North Americans' big-rinked and consequently, clearly "slower" looking/playing game, being "simply too boring" should really be respected in light of the fact that being a National Team player, you obviously have played and experienced the game at the HIGHEST "local" and "international" levels possible. GREAT POST!;)

[BourneRoller]

Just to reply to Matt Zuba regarding the pay:
I just based that figure on one player I know there, I just didn't want to say the exact player or pay in case it was private. Maybe not everyone gets in the 15-20K range, but his case that is correct.
Cheers

ps. good topic guys.

[skooled]

I have played on just about every rink size out there. where I play now is so small that we have to play 3 on 3. But I guarantee that the small rink is the way of the future. the big rink allows way too much time to "set up" the play. RH was always meant to be the fast exciting version of ice, now with the big rinks it is slow and frankly boring....

I think the euro way is THE way.

ACCCT2: is your tournament going to be held on smaller rinks?

[ACCCT2]

I have played on just about every rink size out there. where I play now is so small that we have to play 3 on 3. But I guarantee that the small rink is the way of the future. the big rink allows way too much time to "set up" the play. RH was always meant to be the fast exciting version of ice, now with the big rinks it is slow and frankly boring....

I think the euro way is THE way.

ACCCT2: is your tournament going to be held on smaller rinks?

I TOO "think the euro way is THE way" and wholeheartedly agree with everything you thoughtfully stated, as anyone who really wants to play an exciting game knows that the smaller rinks provide for a full and continuous and uninterupted 'flow' of constant speed, great playmaking and tight, highly skilled play. TRULY MUCH MORE exciting and competitive, as well as advertising/sponsorship and even broadcast worthy than anything this side of the pond.

Your obviously experienced observations that the "big rink" game "is slow and frankly boring" is truly calling the "spade a spade" TRUTH of the matter for our sport (only if it would've been ME who said it...) and honestly, putting up 2 YouTube screens right next to each other and watching ANY random AIHL/PIHA/MLRH-whatever game on one screen and ANY random Euro game on the other, can anyone here really watch both and still NOT come away with the Euro game winning virtually every entertainment/advertising/sponsorship criteria that would obviously be needed to take our sport to the next level -- TRULY "paid-to-play" professional (and NOT the incredibly absurdly inaccurat self-agrandizing "pro" moniker that presently available).

And YES, virtually ALL of our events will be played out on custom-made "3/4" rinks or smaller -- virtually guaranteeing that the purses will be highly contested-for till the very last second of each and every game.:)

[DCbullets14]

How much smaller are the euro rinks than some of the east coast rinks... like feasterville?

[ACCCT2]

It might be interesting to get a poll on this one -- which do you prefer: North American-style big rinks and game-play or the European/HK-style smaller rinks and game-play ("smaller" being "3/4" or less) -- anyone know how to set one up? Criteria would be to at least watch the videos BEFORE voting (in other words, NOT an "Academy Award-type" of vote!).:D

[skooled]

that will obviously be biased, even if it was setup where you had to watch both videos or it wouldn't let you vote.

On another note; to the guys and girls who stated that RH is a game of possession. do you think that maybe this is because of the amount of time you have on the "proper" rinks? I think that if the game evolved on smaller rinks, it would be alot faster. think about the AIHL/MLRH/PIHA games that are on the smaller rinks for a minute....

[DCbullets14]

I thought it looked like alot of the teams in these videos played a box style defense. Is this common on the smaller rinks?

[ACCCT2]

I thought it looked like alot of the teams in these videos played a box style defense. Is this common on the smaller rinks?

In think it's clearly just the nature of the tighter, smaller attack zones, shooting lanes and lines of attack -- because of the extremely fast back and forth 'flow' of the "smaller" Euro-game, the absolute neccessity of "getting back" on "D" is all too obvious, as with even one player not getting back in time, the attacking team is essentially at a huge advantage -- the kind of advantage that the "bigger" North American game rarely sees in even-strength play.

Obviously and strangely enough, the Euro-game puts a very high premium on team "hustle", something that Euro ice hockey is ironically NOT particularly well know for -- Euro players "dogging-it" and "giving-up" too early is a common complaint among a lot of coaches (even European ones) in the 'ice' game, and one of the main reasons that Euro teams love having the added never-say-die "hustle" of North American 'ice' players. Personally, after watching numerous YouTube inline hockey vids of ANYTHING North American vs the Euro vids, GEEZ, it's clearly no comparison whatsoever that the "smaller" Euro-game is MUCH MUCH MORE entertaining, game-long competitive and most importantly of all, MUCH MUCH MORE marketable.:)

[TULaw]

All this talk of the small rink game reminded me of that Speed Hockey concept that never took off a few years ago so I decided to take a look at their website just out of curiosity and see if they still had any video up. Turns out the site is still around but all it says is "Speed Hockey: coming summer 2010". anyone heard from the people who were behind this concept and know if they really have anything planned for this summer?

[skooled]

what was speed hockey?

[ACCCT2]

All this talk of the small rink game reminded me of that Speed Hockey concept that never took off a few years ago so I decided to take a look at their website just out of curiosity and see if they still had any video up. Turns out the site is still around but all it says is "Speed Hockey: coming summer 2010". anyone heard from the people who were behind this concept and know if they really have anything planned for this summer?

Not even close to Speed Hockey (which was like playing hockey inside of a pinball machine...although it was admittedly much more entertaining than anything AIHL/PIHA/MLRH-whatever-wise).

[DCbullets14]

I dont really mind the idea of smaller rinks ... the idea of a smaller goal does not interest me at all ... Also not interested in playing on hardwood floors with half boards.... I think the american game (especially the way its played on the east coast) is extremly boring and therefore very difficult to market.... I love the sport but the current setup needs to be tweaked...

I think one of these small rinks with full board glass (like at Silver Creek Sportsplex) and normal sized nets would make for a pretty exciting game.

Sign me up if anyone decides to build a rink like this

[ACCCT2]

I dont really mind the idea of smaller rinks ... the idea of a smaller goal does not interest me at all ... Also not interested in playing on hardwood floors with half boards.... I think the american game (especially the way its played on the east coast) is extremly boring and therefore very difficult to market.... I love the sport but the current setup needs to be tweaked...

I think one of these small rinks with full board glass (like at Silver Creek Sportsplex) and normal sized nets would make for a pretty exciting game.

Sign me up if anyone decides to build a rink like this

Basically, I 100% agree with pretty much everything said here, although in my experience hardwood floors are very fast ("smooth is smooth", dude!) and almost all of the "Elite" Euro teams play with full size boards, so I don't get where this criticism comes from. At the very least the entire game is kept in a tighter, more concise field of vision and is MUCH MUCH easier to cover and "color" broadcast-wise -- just look at the Grenoble Yeti's vids in particular (http://www.yetisonline.com/index.php?edit=video&theme=match_elite & http://www.yetisonline.com/index.php?video_select=16_gre_caen_20_09_08&edit=video&theme=match_elite & http://www.yetisonline.com/index.php?video_select=16_gre_villeneuve_11_10_08&edit=video&theme=match_elite) -- high quality HDV with just one camera, just imagine what they could do with 3 strategically placed cameras and a great director/editor/production crew -- the between-the-benches-boards-level-cam in particular (where Pierre McGuire would be in an NBC/NHL game) is a great view that takes the viewer right into the middle of the play. How anyone could watch the North American vids with their boring, slower game and then watch and contrast that with these Euro/Yeti ones, with their amazingly fast, flowing and constantly intense "end to end action" and NOT see the clearly MUCH more entertaining and exciting and broadcast-worthiness of the Euro game is beyond me.;)

[skooled]

I agree, I love wooden floors (if the rink owner looks after them) super fast, while super grippy for wheels, but not for pucks...

[ACCCT2]

UPDATE --

How can anyone NOT like the THIS version of the game better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNgXrppI2fc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTF-_2CtoY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SgJ0oyCsPk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_dqDGDgto&feature=fvsr

How can anyone actually say that what the North American ("pro"?) leagues are presently offering in ANY way compares with the excitement and speed of the Euro game is beyond me...:confused:

[Patn Lawton]

I would love a chance to play on a smaller rink and then decide for myself which I like to play better. A smaller rink would probably give me a good excuse not to backcheck...or forecheck...

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

UPDATE --

How can anyone NOT like the THIS version of the game better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNgXrppI2fc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTF-_2CtoY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SgJ0oyCsPk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_dqDGDgto&feature=fvsr

How can anyone actually say that what the North American ("pro"?) leagues are presently offering in ANY way compares with the excitement and speed of the Euro game is beyond me...:confused:

Michael,

I just watched these videos and some others that you have posted in the past. Here are my comments and it must be noted that this is all simply based on my own individual opinion. I'm not trying to discredit anyone. We all know how hard it is to keep this sport alive and kicking.

#1 I find it interesting that the buildings that these rinks are housed in seem very similar to what I see here on the east coast of the United States. They appear to be converted, old warehouses with a hockey rink dropped in the middle of them. Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I simply found it interesting to see that inline hockey being played on another continent probably faces the same issues as we do here when it comes to playing...or not playing in multi million dollar facilities. I will say that I do admire what they have done to increase the seating capacity in some of those buildings. I'm sure that all of the other rink owners and operators who read this board will agree that it's tough enough to get the people in the door and it's even tougher to be able to afford to furnish them all with appropriate seating once they do come in the door.

#2 The rinks themselves leave a lot to be desired. There are almost square corners in some of the rinks featured. I only recall one of them actually having glass above the boards and some not even having any netting above the top of the boards. How can that be safe for any spectators or rink workers? In one of the videos, it looked like the players were changing lines from the snack bar or something. There were two holes cut in the wall and that's where the benches were located. Again, I am not trying to be a wise guy or make fun, I am simply comparing them to what I've seen here in the states. I found it hard to determine in most cases what would be considered in or out of play. Is the puck in play on the entire wall or is there a line that I didn't notice that indicates in our out of play?

#3 The crowds were what excited me the most. There seemed to be a couple hundred in attendance. There were young kids and older people. There were men and women. There was a guy that was pounding a drum during the game. I absolutely loved it! As a rink owner and a former PIHA and AIHL team owner, I was, in a word, JEALOUS! What I would like to know is the actual make-up of the crowd. Are they all rabid inline hockey fans out to support their local teams or are they what we see here in the states...friends and relatives of the players? I am a true believer that if the players in the elite leagues here in the states were as involved with the off floor duties associated with running a successful organization as they are in playing the game itself on the floor, similar crowds would certainly be achievable. I also loved all of the balloons around the rink. Anything to make it festive and higher profile than a house league game is always a good thing. Are there teams with mascots? Are there teams that have crowds holding signs, painting their faces, wearing team jerseys etc.? How about teams with anything special for the kids in attendance?

#4 I found the skill level of the players themselves to be very similar to what I have seen in the AIHL. VERY SIMILAR! they all seemed to skate well, shoot well, pass well, and stickhandle well but I honestly didn't find it to be all that different from what you can see at an AIHL elite level game. In your post you asked the question how anyone can compare the excitement and the speed between the North American and Euro leagues. I actually find them to be just about the same. Have you been to an AIHL game? (I use the AIHL as a refernce because that is what I'm most familiar with...no disrepect to PIHA or MLRH) I can think of a large number of AIHL elite teams who could not only skate with these teams in the videos but probably beat them...some of them could probably put a pretty good beating on them. Furthermore, I find the goaltenders in the AIHL to be better than what I saw on these videos. Now, that is my opinion on the skill and yes, your words were excitement and speed so let me address those two items. I find the players speed to be similar between Euro and North American players. The speed of the game does in fact seem faster but probably due to the size of the floor. That being said, ther are a number of smaller rinks that host AIHL teams where you can find a speedy game as well. You also mentioned the excitement factor. I have to say that with those crowds, the excitement levcl for me is already off the charts and that the Euro game wins for that reason alone, hands down. However, if you remove the crowds, I don't see a huge difference. Yes, they are 100% run and gun and that leads to more shots on net and possibly even higher scores. But in my opinion, that doesn't always mean more exciting. I enjoy seeing games where the teams are well coached and a team's strategy is just as much as a factor as anything else. I also find it exciting to watch some top level goaltenders and I honestly didn't see much of that in the videos. You asked how anyone could compare and that is what I've just done. What it comes down to is that you have your opinion and I and others have ours. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong, it just gives us something to talk about and something to get behind and lend our support...some more than others.

In closing, please don't think for a second that I hold anything against the game being played on a smaller playing surface. There is a rink just south of Boston that is very near and dear to me that I own and operate called the Holbrook Sports Center. The measurements are 146' X 75' and probably isn't too disimilar from the rinks shown in the videos. The action is always fast paced and exciting and you constantly need to be aware of everything going on in the game due to things happening so quickly. Look us up if you ever make your way to Boston. I think you'd enjoy playing there.

Ruppy

[ACCCT2]

Michael,

I just watched these videos and some others that you have posted in the past. Here are my comments and it must be noted that this is all simply based on my own individual opinion. I'm not trying to discredit anyone. We all know how hard it is to keep this sport alive and kicking.

#1 I find it interesting that the buildings that these rinks are housed in seem very similar to what I see here on the east coast of the United States. They appear to be converted, old warehouses with a hockey rink dropped in the middle of them. Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I simply found it interesting to see that inline hockey being played on another continent probably faces the same issues as we do here when it comes to playing...or not playing in multi million dollar facilities. I will say that I do admire what they have done to increase the seating capacity in some of those buildings. I'm sure that all of the other rink owners and operators who read this board will agree that it's tough enough to get the people in the door and it's even tougher to be able to afford to furnish them all with appropriate seating once they do come in the door.

#2 The rinks themselves leave a lot to be desired. There are almost square corners in some of the rinks featured. I only recall one of them actually having glass above the boards and some not even having any netting above the top of the boards. How can that be safe for any spectators or rink workers? In one of the videos, it looked like the players were changing lines from the snack bar or something. There were two holes cut in the wall and that's where the benches were located. Again, I am not trying to be a wise guy or make fun, I am simply comparing them to what I've seen here in the states. I found it hard to determine in most cases what would be considered in or out of play. Is the puck in play on the entire wall or is there a line that I didn't notice that indicates in our out of play?

#3 The crowds were what excited me the most. There seemed to be a couple hundred in attendance. There were young kids and older people. There were men and women. There was a guy that was pounding a drum during the game. I absolutely loved it! As a rink owner and a former PIHA and AIHL team owner, I was, in a word, JEALOUS! What I would like to know is the actual make-up of the crowd. Are they all rabid inline hockey fans out to support their local teams or are they what we see here in the states...friends and relatives of the players? I am a true believer that if the players in the elite leagues here in the states were as involved with the off floor duties associated with running a successful organization as they are in playing the game itself on the floor, similar crowds would certainly be achievable. I also loved all of the balloons around the rink. Anything to make it festive and higher profile than a house league game is always a good thing. Are there teams with mascots? Are there teams that have crowds holding signs, painting their faces, wearing team jerseys etc.? How about teams with anything special for the kids in attendance?

#4 I found the skill level of the players themselves to be very similar to what I have seen in the AIHL. VERY SIMILAR! they all seemed to skate well, shoot well, pass well, and stickhandle well but I honestly didn't find it to be all that different from what you can see at an AIHL elite level game. In your post you asked the question how anyone can compare the excitement and the speed between the North American and Euro leagues. I actually find them to be just about the same. Have you been to an AIHL game? (I use the AIHL as a refernce because that is what I'm most familiar with...no disrepect to PIHA or MLRH) I can think of a large number of AIHL elite teams who could not only skate with these teams in the videos but probably beat them...some of them could probably put a pretty good beating on them. Furthermore, I find the goaltenders in the AIHL to be better than what I saw on these videos. Now, that is my opinion on the skill and yes, your words were excitement and speed so let me address those two items. I find the players speed to be similar between Euro and North American players. The speed of the game does in fact seem faster but probably due to the size of the floor. That being said, ther are a number of smaller rinks that host AIHL teams where you can find a speedy game as well. You also mentioned the excitement factor. I have to say that with those crowds, the excitement levcl for me is already off the charts and that the Euro game wins for that reason alone, hands down. However, if you remove the crowds, I don't see a huge difference. Yes, they are 100% run and gun and that leads to more shots on net and possibly even higher scores. But in my opinion, that doesn't always mean more exciting. I enjoy seeing games where the teams are well coached and a team's strategy is just as much as a factor as anything else. I also find it exciting to watch some top level goaltenders and I honestly didn't see much of that in the videos. You asked how anyone could compare and that is what I've just done. What it comes down to is that you have your opinion and I and others have ours. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong, it just gives us something to talk about and something to get behind and lend our support...some more than others.

In closing, please don't think for a second that I hold anything against the game being played on a smaller playing surface. There is a rink just south of Boston that is very near and dear to me that I own and operate called the Holbrook Sports Center. The measurements are 146' X 75' and probably isn't too disimilar from the rinks shown in the videos. The action is always fast paced and exciting and you constantly need to be aware of everything going on in the game due to things happening so quickly. Look us up if you ever make your way to Boston. I think you'd enjoy playing there.

Ruppy

Ruppy --

I think that I'm pretty much 100% in agreement with your assessment, with the KEY factors that you brought up (and seconded me on) that the smaller 'size' of the court actually creates a visually faster, speedier and NUCH MORE exciting game-product for fans (and hence, sponsors) to enjoy. I wholeheartedly agree with the North American vs Euro skill-level assessment -- not much at the HIGHEST levels to differentiate between the North American and Euro players...BUT...the TYPE of game the Euro players are afforded with playing in the 'smaller' rinks actually enhances the chances for them to TRULY 'show-off' their skill-sets in a MUCH MORE exciting, ballistic and FAN-friendly game. NO DOUBT about it, the 'look' and 'feel' of the Euro-game IS CLEARLY FAR SUPERIOR to even the BEST North American on-court presentations. And you clearly UNDER-estimate the fan numbers, as the Euro games regularly get upwards of 300, 400, 500, even 700 to 800 paying fans per game, depending on the opponent and time of season (playoffs are "SOLD-OUT" affairs in the French & Italian leagues in particular).

From what I know in attending a number of Euro games over the years, that fans are just that -- "fans" of "their" team, people from the local community (in Europe they have NUCH MORE a 'sense' of it), as well as the expected player family/friends contingents, but generally, they are "locals" who just like supporting "their" team. The fact that many Euro teams, especially the French and Italian Elite & 1st Division teams also get considerable television/media coverage definitely helps promote and support the teams' presence and good standing in the local fan and (hence) business community. The local and BIG-time national advertising/sponsorship on both the uni's and the rink-venues put virtually ANYTHING and EVERYTHING advertising/sponsorship/marketing-wise in North America to shame.

In the end, in my own humble opinion, as either a fan or player, I myself would MUCH rather participate/play in the Euro game's CLEARLY SUPERIOR showcasing of player & team skill-sets, back & forth speed, tic-tac-toe playmaking and, as YOU yourself said, the "100% run and gun" almost 'ping-pong/pinball-like' fast-play qualities. I'd rather play-in or see a game in virtually ANY of the Euro rinks featured than do so in even the FANCIEST, MOST MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR (but inevitably NON-ambient) facilities typically played upon in the USA or Canada.

Just a closing thought (30+ years "mad-man" marketing guy that I am) -- it'd be interesting if either the AIHL or PIHA would ever be SMART enough to put together a "Anglo-Euro" ("Cup"?) "Cross the Pond" ("challenge"?) event -- frankly, something like this type of "game-exchange" competition would be GOOD for the game on BOTH sides of "the pond" -- and with no knock whatesoever intended, FAR FAR BETTER than even the NARCh "Finals" or other tournament events, in terms of what they'd do for the image and 'marketability' of the game. I'd pay to go see it...but ONLY if it was in Europe on the 'smaller' courts.

THANKS for the Boston/Holbrook Sports Center invite -- if I'm ever there in the area, I'll definitely stop by for a pick-up game or few.

And by the way, who said my name was "Michael" -- as I never did...?!?:confused:

[growl89]

#3 The crowds were what excited me the most. There seemed to be a couple hundred in attendance. There were young kids and older people. There were men and women. There was a guy that was pounding a drum during the game. I absolutely loved it! As a rink owner and a former PIHA and AIHL team owner, I was, in a word, JEALOUS! What I would like to know is the actual make-up of the crowd. Are they all rabid inline hockey fans out to support their local teams or are they what we see here in the states...friends and relatives of the players? I am a true believer that if the players in the elite leagues here in the states were as involved with the off floor duties associated with running a successful organization as they are in playing the game itself on the floor, similar crowds would certainly be achievable. I also loved all of the balloons around the rink. Anything to make it festive and higher profile than a house league game is always a good thing. Are there teams with mascots? Are there teams that have crowds holding signs, painting their faces, wearing team jerseys etc.? How about teams with anything special for the kids in attendance?
Ruppy

Ruppy,

Great point!! I know in this area (northern NJ) there is not much, if any true "kids" leagues anymore. I know when I was playing with the wolves we would inquire about when the kids played to try and promote the team/games to them, and there was little to no information available.

I really do wish I had the time/money to help promote the sport, as it is a great sport. Nothing burned me up more then when I was playing with the Growl and we played Connecticut in the playoffs and there was 12 people in the stands, ACTUALLY 12!! Two of the best teams to lace em up then and 12 people in the stands. And at least 6 of those were JD Davidsons family. And this was despite flynner doing a great job promoting the team.

If it was up me to me, and like I said, I wish it was, I would make these games in the afternoon and turn it into a party atmosphere. Make it fan friendly atmosphere. Most of the games you pull into the lot and you don't know if there is a hockey game or a funeral. Then you enter the rink and there are two whole sections of bleachers for fans to sit.

Now, I am not in the advertising field, but there has to be at least one person in the whole AIHL with a connection, somewhere. Why not go after one of these new energy drink companies? They are always looking to get their product out there, it's a win/win. Also, why not have a rivalry game during the season (grizzlies/wolves or boston/mass) and have this game team up with a charity (breast cancer, brians run, etc) this will land people in the building, and will ultimately spread the word.

I had to step away from the game this season for multiple reasons and honestly I may never play again but hopefully someone will be able to step up and make AIHL/PIHA/MLRH more then just the feel of a rec league with an average website.

[shnizzle27]

Ruppy,

After watching the footage I would have to agree with you completly. Your assesment is spot on. No disrespect at all to the Euro Leagues, but I definatly think the AIHL teams could play against any of those teams shown in the videos. Also I think the goaltending in the AIHL is by far a lot better than what I watched on the links above.
Very Very Impressive is the number of fans that come out to watch there games . It would be nice to see that in the AIHL

[DCbullets14]

Where do these teams recieve their sponsorship from?.... My personal opinion is that there are too many AIHL teams to really build a large fan base. If the number of teams was cut down and were fully sponsored and promoted I think the fans would be more likely to come out.

[growl89]

Where do these teams recieve their sponsorship from?.... My personal opinion is that there are too many AIHL teams to really build a large fan base. If the number of teams was cut down and were fully sponsored and promoted I think the fans would be more likely to come out.

FINALLY!!!! Someone making sense!

[ACCCT2]

More great Euro-game video's -- note the crowd:

http://vimeo.com/9861679
http://vimeo.com/9298018

The French coach in both vidz is classic -- you don't even have to speak a word of French to get him, eh...!?!

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

And by the way, who said my name was "Michael" -- as I never did...?!?:confused:

Michael,

I, like you and many others on this board, love the game of hockey, whether it's played on inline skates or ice skates. Therefore, I also participate on other message boards, some that cater to inline hockey, some to ice hockey, and some to both. While browsing through an NHL thread, I can remember a gentleman named Michael (I won't post the last name here...you can if you'd like) who had a very similar writing style as you do. But what really gave it away is when you began using the term "Canuckleheads" back a few years ago. That same Michael on the other board used that term quite often as well and claimed to be the originator of it. I may be right or I may be wrong, but if I were a betting man I'd guess that you two are the same person, you've just chosen to use an anonymous screen name here on the IHC boards. Now, if the Michael ______ who was on that board is not your true name, I apologize, but I still think you two are the same person.

Either way, no big deal. I enjoy reading what you have to say nonetheless. I may not always agree with your opinion but that usually makes for a good hearted debate. We have taken each other to task over the years but in the end I think we both want to see the sport survive and even grow. I would say that's the most important thing in the end.

Good day and good hockey to everyone.

[DannyG]

My real name is Danny.

seemed relevant for a moment.

[Stampede#11]

I had to rub my eyes viewing that first clip ....

I thought I was looking at Russell Crowe (who'd let himself go a bit) and it was the beginning of Gladiator with that music .... :D

*Imagine a bad french accent*
"and iiiff we loose siz game boyz, I will av my vengance in siz life or zi next"

[Hockeydevil29]

Ruppy

Good investigating. I thought it was said on here about a year ago that his name was Michael Kraemer. Don't know why he tries to keep that a secret.

[ACCCT2]

MORE GREAT Euro-vidz -- this time the "Finale de la Coupe de France" for the Championship of the French "Elite" League (and on the French national OrangeSport TV network at that, with a good-looking female "play-by-play" announcer making the game sound as intense, cool and sexy as it possibly can be). LOVE the way the team mascot joins the team "Merci/Thank You" huddle in the last 'end-of-game/celebration' vid. All vidz (all accessible on the same page) are of the final game and in game-time order from top to bottom:

http://www.rollerhockeyfrance.com/2009/08/27/video-finale-de-la-coupe-de-france-a-toulouse/