P.J. Tallo

[InlineMBA]

First, I want to say that this thread is not specifically directed at P.J. Tallo. Also, all you need to do is take a look at some of my prior posts and you'll see that I have a great deal of respect for P.J. and rank him in my top 10 Inline Hockey players.

Here's my question, and I'm basing it on information posted in these forums: If P.J. Tallo is in fact playing Professional Inline in Italy, and by professional - I mean he is getting paid to play, does he forfeit any remaining eligibility he has to play in college (in the NCRHA) should he decide to return and resume his studies?

Thanks,

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[GoRangrHky]

C. General Player Eligibility
ii.
: A student-athlete shall not be eligible for participation in the NCRHA if the individual received pay for participation in the sports of roller hockey or ice hockey. Student athletes who have played ice hockey professionally, including Major Junior A hockey (OHL, WHL, QMJHL), shall not be eligible for competition in the NCRHA.
a)
In the context of this rule, pay shall be defined as receiving compensation (monetary or otherwise) in excess of the sum total of the cost of uniform, equipment and travel/practice/game expenses.
b)
In the event of a challenge upon eligibility under this rule, players who have participated in professional or semi-professional roller hockey leagues must submit documentation indicating that pay was not received by said player.

Looks like it to me.

[InlineMBA]

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand the NCRHA rule. However, after I read it - does that also apply to anyone who has won money by winning, say TORHS or NARCh Pro?

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[Mr Hockey]

This intrigues me also. Maybe I dont have an understanding of how PIHA worked, but those kids that had played "Pro" PIHA, have been compensated, thus making them actually ineligible for NCRHA.... right?

[DCbullets14]

Actually that is incorrect.. for two main reasons... frist almost noone is paid to play in PIHA or AIHL... in PIHA the winning team did recieve a small amount of money (i think it was like $7000). This amount of money does not cover the travel, playing, and additional expenses involved with playing .... therefore it does not make a player inelligible

This is my understanding although I could completly be incorrect. It is more of an issue with any kid that wins NARCh because it is a more substantial amount of money and involves less expenses.

[InlineMBA]

Actually that is incorrect.. for two main reasons... frist almost noone is paid to play in PIHA or AIHL... in PIHA the winning team did recieve a small amount of money (i think it was like $7000). This amount of money does not cover the travel, playing, and additional expenses involved with playing .... therefore it does not make a player inelligible

This is my understanding although I could completly be incorrect. It is more of an issue with any kid that wins NARCh because it is a more substantial amount of money and involves less expenses.

Good point. However, what if the team pays for "travel, playing, and additional expenses involved in playing?" Would that change the scenario?

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[iwearstripes]

Good point. However, what if the team pays for "travel, playing, and additional expenses involved in playing?" Would that change the scenario?

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8
There is a pretty solid argument to be made (based on the way the NCRHA rule is written) that if a player has total hockey expenses (uniform, equipment, and travel/practive/game expenses) in excess of the revenue he earns from playing hockey in a given year, that he would still an amateur in the NCRHA's view. The NCRHA isn't specific as to what those expenses can be.

One could make a sound argument that food on a road trip is a hockey expense, as well as mileage on a player's car. You could even argue to include health insurance, even professional hockey tickets or the NHL Center Ice package to be considered an expense under this rule.

So it depends on how picky the NCRHA wants to be. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone has actually pushed the issue in the past.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

One tidbit too is that the winnings for PIHA are paid to the organization and not the players directly so there is some leeway there.

we had some issues with players and eligibility in the past. The best advice is that the player themselves contact the compliance rep at their school or the school they wish to attend and discuss.

The rep will usually answer them right away or will contact the owner of the organization in question.

End of the day I do not think mr. Tallo is not breaking any eligibility rules. Face it many ametuer basketball and football programs exist out there that receive funding that is used indirectly for player expense. those players go on to NCAA athletics. our elite/pro roller is essentially the same.

THere is even an NCAA rule for baseball players that lets them be drafted and have an agent assistance. the way around it is that the athlete and not the agent must negotiate but the agent can be in the room. Im not an expert but in these types of situations it is an individual inquiry and not a blanket rule.

[ACCCT2]

Im not an expert but in these types of situations it is an individual inquiry and not a blanket rule.

Hmmm...I guess that old saying that rules were meant to be broken really does apply, doesn't it...!?!;)

[GoRangrHky]

But there is a big difference between what he is getting to play in Italy versus what PIHA players get. The way I look at it, if he is getting a salary or stipend, he is getting paid, and therefore ineligible. You can claim that NHL players are getting money and have to pay for rent in the city they play in addition to where they live in the off season, so the money they make is used for expenses associated with playing, but there is no way they could ever play in an NCAA game again.

It won't be an issue at the school, because the athletics departments generally wouldn't prevent someone who played professionally from participating in a club sport.

Although at Harvard we had a policy where former professional athletes are not permitted to play in house sports (all students live on campus, so the houses play against each other). The staffs of those houses are also able to participate as well. Turns out the chef in one of the houses had a tryout with the Rangers over 40 years ago and was playing, and naturally one of the other houses found out and was filing complaints and threatening some legal action or something. Only in Cambridge... :rolleyes:

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

I find this thread very interesting, but at the same time, a bit sad. Inline hockey is an minor niche sport in the general scheme of things. Is it fair to single out a player like this on a public message board? Might it not be better for someone who cares to send a private message to the person concerned?

Secondly, haven't we all (except perhaps the NCAA) long outgrown the idea that the premier athletes in ANY sport are amateurs in any sense of the word?

[GoRangrHky]

Well this specific instance is about him, but the concept is not. A lot of these premier players are getting offers to go play overseas now, and while it's a great option for them, the point is that the least the NCRHA should do is at least adhere to not only their policies, but those which collegiate sports should be about.

[ACCCT2]

Well this specific instance is about him, but the concept is not. A lot of these premier players are getting offers to go play overseas now, and while it's a great option for them, the point is that the least the NCRHA should do is at least adhere to not only their policies, but those which collegiate sports should be about.

Very good point. However, here's my call on this one --

I think that young Mr. Tallo (or anyone with the talent that could be in such compensatable demand) should in fact be allowed to do whatever he pleases to help offset the cost of his education, living expenses or even just beer, party and poker money.

In a day and age when families are experiencing financial hardships, sacrifices and deprivations not seen on such a widespread level since the Great Depression, who is the NCRHA, or any school or team or club entity, to tell young Mr. Tallo what he can or can't do or 'earn' or otherwise be compensated for in (smartly) marketing what might be his best pre-graduation skills available to the highest bidder in a field that needs and will in fact pay for those "skills" -- and this especially so when the NCRHA, or any school or team or club entity doesn't give even a Canadian dime's worth of athletic financial support to young Mr. Tallo's 4 years worth of educational bills.

Let's get real, ALL rules are in fact made to broken -- just ask the NHL, who jobbed the Red Wings at every turn in trying to get Sid-the-Kid his Cup Ring at any cost, including letting Malkin play after he committed what should have been an at least 2 games worth of suspensions by the "rules" that the NHL swears by (or does anyone REALLY think that Sid-the-Kid and the Pens would've won even a single game without eventual MVP Malkin in the line-up for every game?). Or just ask any major NCAA college football or basketball program whether "rules" are never knowingly or even openly 'bent' or 'broken' ("no way"...yeah, right). Everyone knows that most if not all big-time NCAA football and basketball programs are a cesspooled gravy-train of boosters, agents and shady characters that run right up to and through the highest levels of a school's athletic and academic administrations, and that the only real "rule" that REALLY matters is to simply not get caught at whatever it is they're so obviously there doing. Gosh, what are boosters in particular for, and why are they allowed such close relationships to athletic departments, coaches and players if NOT specifically to "bend" and "break" those "rules" for the competitive advantage of the schools' programs?

GEEZ, let's get reall here -- there's not even a REAL "pro" inline hockey league anywhere in North America where young Mr. Tallo can enjoy the ultimate post-college job making money at what he probably does best. And yet the NCRHA would want to take that maturing and enligtening and once-in-a-lifetime learning-while-earning experience away from him? For just exactly WHAT that they offer him in return (that he alone hasn't already in fact paid for out of his own pocket)?

In my mind "rules" should have a clear-cut and demonstrative purpose for being "rules" -- with the hundreds of millions in money and potential opportunity for the outright corruptive/criminal/racketeering influences surrounding especially big-time NCAA college football and basketball programs, these "rules" definitely make sense at the NCAA 'scholarship' program level. But with no meaningful scholarships, revenues or even preferential financial aid available to 99.9% of the NCRHA/college programs and players, these "rules" are quite pointless and even counterproductive. I say let young Mr. Tallo "get paid" as much as he can so that he can afford the BEST education possible. Just MY 2-cents-worth. ;)

[Mlrhnorthfan]

wow, the day has come when I agree with Acct2!

your point about the NHL jobbing the wings last year was spot on. off topic i know but the nhl will soon become the next WWE.

Is it the only league where video replays go to the home office for review during a live game?

[ACCCT2]

wow, the day has come when I agree with Acct2!

your point about the NHL jobbing the wings last year was spot on. off topic i know but the nhl will soon become the next WWE.

Is it the only league where video replays go to the home office for review during a live game?

I totally agree with you -- and YES, the NHL is the ONLY league ANYWHERE that goes to the "home office" ("war room"?) to 'decide' video replays. And once again, look at GEEZ, the POST-PLAY -- POST-PLAY!?!:confused: -- jobbing NHL once again inflicted on the Wings in their last game (3-2 SO loss vs Stars on 1/16) -- need anyone say ANYTHING more about the "Canuckle-headed" NHL's PRO-Sid/ANTI-Euro-Wing bias?:(

[train]

take your meds.

[GoRangrHky]

The NCRHA is not telling him that he can't go do that. What they are saying is that he can't go do that and still be a part of their league. He has every right to go earn his money, and good for him if he does. NCAA doesn't let DIII schools give the kids scholarships or any other kind of compensation for them going out there and representing their schools, and yet they can't play professionally and then go back and play college hockey. I'd say this is about the same.

Players of that level have PLENTY of opportunities to 'market' their skills- PIHA, AIHL, MLRH, NARCh, Torhs, you name it. Believe me, if they're out there, they'll be found. Nobody 'found' Greg Thompson because he played for Lindenwood. I'm sure it helped, but once he was 'found', that was it. If you're using college roller hockey as your marketing tool, well then, once it works, why do you need it any more?

College sports are the only places left for amateurs. Let's keep it that way.

[DieselBurns]

Hi Folks,

I find this thread very interesting, but at the same time, a bit sad. Inline hockey is an minor niche sport in the general scheme of things. Is it fair to single out a player like this on a public message board? Might it not be better for someone who cares to send a private message to the person concerned?

Secondly, haven't we all (except perhaps the NCAA) long outgrown the idea that the premier athletes in ANY sport are amateurs in any sense of the word?

Interesting. I said the same thing and got chastised by several board members.

[RichardGraham]

Hi DieselBurns,

That's because they know I can ban 'em and you can't. :D

[GSJaguars11]

the best players playing can only help the league, its not like he's gonna graduate from college and go play for his career, like ice hockey

[GoRangrHky]

You don't think so, but there's players out there that are. Maybe it's not a lifelong thing, but they are doing it.