MLRH and Hitting

[njstampede12]

I would like to say that I read on mlrh.com about Mike Francis and how he was hit. After reading It I spoke to mike on the phone about everything and he told me to check out the video of the game. So I checked it out and watching him get hit with a high cheap elbow was un-called for. This is a injury to a great guy and player. This Todd Orlando should recieve a suspension of some kind. Mike i wish you a speedy recovery.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

TJ I was thinking the same thing and was going to post a get well message on here for mike.

Hes a great guy and a great player.

Hes arguably one of the best players still playing MLRH. Probably in the top 3.

I didnt watch the film, nor will I.

This is why so few of the best inline talent in the US will play MLRH anymore. No one wants to risk getting his head knocked in by a goon and not get paid for it.

No one wants to risk missing time at their real job where they get paid for this.

Sorry but I question the need for the MLRH to even post this story on their main site. Its almost they flaunt the fact that one of their marquee players gets hurt with a cheapshot. Not sure how that would make other top players come to their league.

Best of luck to a speedy recovery for Mike.

[Doug Jones]

First, I wish Mike a speedy recovery and hope to see him back on the rink again soon.

Matt, it's obvious you have a tremendous dislike for the MLRH. You've made it clear with another post on scores and now this.

For argument's sake, you're going to tell me that no one in any other league has thrown cheapshots and or done something similar and it's just in the MLRH?

Let's be fair here. Should I post when I see a suspension for intent to injure in an AIHL game or a PIHA one? it'll happen you bet, someone will lose their cool and do something stupid like the elbow thrown that injured Mike. As a GM, I am upset with that elbow, because it doesn't belong in the game or in any league, but it's not EXCLUSIVE TO MLRH

I am sure the player responsible for the actions to Mike will be punished. As far as the site posting what it did, the first amendment guarantees us all the ability to express ourselves freely.

henceforth, I understand you don't like MLRH. You've thrown the rocks, and you keep throwing them with your jabs and comments.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Doug your right, it can and does happen in any of our leagues. it just seemed like it was glorified in this instance.

I get a little carried away when I see a guy like Mike get hurt like this. Ive played against him for along time and he would never do something like this to another player. (I admit I did go and watch the footage after someone else mentioned it)

I love checking in hockey, I wish there was a way to get it back in our sport safely. Its not the MLRH's fault, its the fact that full grown men are playing a physical sport and regardless of the league there is no recourse to guys that go out there and hurt people.

honestly, in whatever league you play in, a simple suspension for potentially ending someones playing career doesnt seem to be a big enough deterent. especially when players arent being paid to play. A player could go in one league and deliberately injure someone, get suspended and simply go to another league. I think that we need to band together to get headhunters out of elite inline hockey. Hopefully someday soon a player that gets booted from the AIHL for intent to injure will not be able to play in the PIHA or the MLRH and vice versa.

You check in hockey to separate a player from the puck, not to separate the player from his knee ligaments.

[whizbang]

get well mike! see you when you're all better

[lufria55]

I would like to second the comments about Mike. Mike is a excellent player as well as a person, and it's always been enjoyable playing against him as well as with him on various teams.

Unfortunately, this online video is a tough one to judge - i actually have the raw copy, where I can view it frame by frame. It's tough to see at full speed, but when slowed down, higher resolution, and bigger, it actually looks like a legitiment check. One of the major issues is that Mike is about 5'8, and Todd Orlando is 6'9'.

I'm not at all endorsing what happeend - we would all love a competitive game where no one gets hurt, things are close and the game goes well. I wish Mike the best, speedy recovery possible.

[njstampede12]

lufria55,

You have every right to defend your player. But knowing Mike and playing with him for years i have never seen him get hit like that ever. He is a speedy guy that knows the game. Watching that game and seeing mike get hit with a high elbow and him laying there was wrong for Todd and his team. You guy should be punished in every way for his high elbow and intent to injure.

[minutemen]

where can i see the hit? Do not know Mike but have a speedy recovery and best of luck.

[njstampede12]

Go on MLRH.com justin it's around the the 26 min mark. Also a follow up for everyone Mike is getting his jaw wired shut tomorrow. Hope you feel better pal.

[minutemen]

I can see what lufria55 is saying, it is a taller defender hitting a smaller forward, BUT he did lead with his elbow. Should be a penalty, and a suspension if MLRH wants to make it clear that elbows will not be tolerated. The question is if Mike was not hurt on the play would we be having this discussion, probably not. But he was hurt and I wish him the best with his recovery. MLRH make a stand and let players know that elbows will not be tolerated.

I agree with Zuba, hitting it to take guys off the puck not to kill someone. Definitely people will debate on this particular hit. Have seen alot worse, but guy should learn not to lead with his elbow, can be very dangerous. This was his second confrontation in the early part of the game. He had a pushing match earlier, could be wrong may not have been the same player. So he could be a problem player and could lead to more issues during the season.

Also great coverage of the game. Cameraman did great and commentator as well. The broadcast was not good last year, Nice job MLRH improving that.

[njstampede12]

Yes he did lead with his elbow and that is intent to injure 100%. It does'nt matter what your size is. Look at Martin St louis that is 5'9 and Zdeno Chara that is 6'9 when they play eachother do you see Chara elbowing St.louis? No you don't see any of that. This happens when guys play in this league and want to kill someone in open ice hit. Like Zuba said we all have jobs to go to monday morning and some of us have kids. Were not getting paid to play roller hockey we play cause we love the game. Now one of the best players that plays the game is out for awhile cause this Todd guy wanted to be cheap and elbow someone in the head cause he was going to get beat.

[lufria55]

I appreciate the comments. i would like to show you some still shots that really show that the initial contact is his shoulder without a doubt, but i can't seem to post links on the board. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Sinister Soup]

Nobody likes to see people get hurt but if you’re going to play in a checking league sometimes you get an elbow. It happens in the NHL and countless ice hockey leagues around the world (most leagues with unpaid players) all the time. There's a AAA division for people who don't want to play full contact. So call off the lynch mob and get on with your life.

[lufria55]

Sinister,

I think their issue isn't necessarily with the fact that "it's a checking league and etc" But that this is the MLRH, not the NHL. People dont really dont need to be try to completely kill someone else in the game.

Our real issue with my team, and my real concern was a from-behind boarding call that should have been called on one on my players on the floor. I was furious about that absoluetly lack-of-respect and dangerous hit, and he is no longer playing contact, and will most likely not ever play it again with myself.

While I respect Mike Francis, The pictures and slowmotion really show the impact is with the shoulder first, not the elbow. I know it's hard to believe, but video doesn't lie. The other fact remains that if Mike Francis had NOT gotten hurt, this thread and controversy wouldn't have even happened.

[Sinister Soup]

I Reiterate ... Nobody likes to see people get hurt but if you’re going to play in a checking league sometimes you get BOARDED FROM BEHIND. It happens in the NHL and countless ice hockey leagues around the world (most leagues with unpaid players) all the time. There's a AAA division for people who don't want to play full contact. So call off the lynch mob and get on with your life.

I'm sure nobody died

[njstampede12]

I Reiterate ... Nobody likes to see people get hurt but if you’re going to play in a checking league sometimes you get BOARDED FROM BEHIND. It happens in the NHL and countless ice hockey leagues around the world (most leagues with unpaid players) all the time. There's a AAA division for people who don't want to play full contact. So call off the lynch mob and get on with your life.

I'm sure nobody died

The fact of the matter is another player gets hurt on a cheap hit. It's not the fact that if you play in a contact division. People in that league go out and try to kill someone.

[Falcons77]

Having played MLRH for years, I still think to this day, that there is no need for outright, full checking in roller hockey. It is not the same as ice, period. Our inline players that dont know how to properly check or take a check, hurt themselves or others because they dont know what they are doing.

I recall ducking a clear high elbow one MLRH season and I actually heard the coach from the other team call me names and wanted a penalty called on me, when his player injured his forearm and elbow along the glass. I just thank God that I saw the high hit coming.

Being a bigger (by that I can say fat) guy myself, I actually enjoy checking when done properly. The purpose of a check is to knock the player off the puck and not to kill him. I know that several times I told the player I was "coming" if I knew he had his head down or didnt know I was about to have contact with him.

Maybe MLRH should go back to the old rules where you could only check along the boards and not allow open court hits?

In the end, we all need to go to work on Monday, no matter what league we play in.

[lufria55]

I also agree with Falcon - the main problem really appears to be the fact that full contact checking in roller hockey is an issue. Does it belong? Does it have any integration into the roller world?

[Sinister Soup]

The fact of the matter is another player gets hurt on a cheap hit. It's not the fact that if you play in a contact division. People in that league go out and try to kill someone.

When i play in contact divisions I play fully knowing that there is a chance that I could get hurt.. Be it from a cheap shot, check gone wrong, fight or maybe I get caught with my head down. Everyone that plays knows the risk especially if they've played in the league for a number of years.
If you don't like it DON'T PLAY.

[njstampede12]

I have played in MLRH and XIHL so don't sit there and tell me not to play in the leagues. It's not about the contact its about the Cheap shots with guys that don't know how to hit. This happens in MLRH year after year.

[Falcons77]

Well look at inline hockey history and you will see that players prefer other leagues to MLRH, just look at the team movements.

I think the problem with the MLRH and hitting is that each team has 1 line of good, talented players who want to play and know how to. The rest of the players are (for a lack of a better term) goons. Untalented, never played full contact, and are looking to make a name. Same guys walking around their hometowns wearing their team gear and telling everyone that they play Professional Hockey. These are the players we all are talking and complaining about.

[njstampede12]

I agree Falcons.

[Sinister Soup]

I have played in MLRH and XIHL so don't sit there and tell me not to play in the leagues. It's not about the contact its about the Cheap shots with guys that don't know how to hit. This happens in MLRH year after year.

I don't believe that I said njstampede12 don't play MLRH. What I said was if you play and/or have played MLRH then you know the risk. If you don't like the risk of getting hurt then DON'T PLAY MLRH. In fact if you don't want to get hurt avoid hockey all together... play basketball or something. I've played in many no contact/ no fighting leagues and still have had bad injuries. I had a teammate brake his leg playing in NCRHA which is a no checking league. Roller hockey is a physical sport because it’s still hockey. Cheap shots come in all levels of contact hockey not just MLRH. (Has anyone watched or played Junior C?) I saw what happened in the Thunders' game and I don't think what happened was the result of ignorance. I don't know either player personally but, I’ll bet that both of them have played ice hockey and both of them knew how to hit. Furthermore, I don't like what’s being said about MLRH players. The majority of player in that league are talented players and they play because they love the sport, not to go injure someone.

[njstampede12]

I'm not saying anything about the talent of players in MLRH but all the top players in the country play in AIHL/PIHA. How many people to you here getting hit with a cheap elbow or a cheap shot?

[minutemen]

Hey I sometimes walk around in my team gear, LOL, funny but good point. Yes the players do get killed in the NHL but hey they get paid and most guys purpose is to do that. This is Inline hockey and yes it is totally different then ice hockey. I agree that if MLRH wants to have checking, then just make it along the boards.

Anyway, it is an issue that has been a problem for years. At least MLRh now has alternatives divisions that do not allow checking. But people make sure to learn how to hit and understand when to do it and its purpose, before you play in that league. Hate to see more people get hurt.

[Sinister Soup]

Itan Chavira is a top player and he plays MLRH ... and I don't hear much of anything about PIHA or AIHL there's no video to watch. Yea there are a few articles on their web sites and some threads on IHC where a few people argue about which league is better the PIHA or AIHL... but if the hit from the thunder game wasn't on video I doubt we'd even be talking about it.

[minutemen]

Actually there is a weekly radio show, THIS Week In The AIHL, you find the link on the AIHL website. Also some teams do have live broadcast on the net. Boston Swamp Rats have video and commentating. The Hartford Fireants do not have video but have commentating. As for other teams, I know they have it but do not know which teams.

Anyway lets not make this into a MLRH vs AIHL debate.

[Jkahn09]

Sorry to the guy who got hit. But the hit wasn't all that dirty. From the video looks like the Michigan player was coming down full speed and put his head down for one sec. while the defenseman stepped up to play the man. Yeah the hit was definatly worth either a double minor or a five minute major, but this is a hitting league, and it is a high-contact sport. I can't speculate whether or not the detroit player was head hunting, but he was just stepping up in a hitting league, but didn't hit properly. 5 minute major or 1 game suspension nothing more.

[lufria55]

Actually there is a weekly radio show, THIS Week In The AIHL, you find the link on the AIHL website. Also some teams do have live broadcast on the net. Boston Swamp Rats have video and commentating. The Hartford Fireants do not have video but have commentating. As for other teams, I know they have it but do not know which teams.

Anyway lets not make this into a MLRH vs AIHL debate.

too late...lol.

[Jkahn09]

I don't believe that I said njstampede12 don't play MLRH. What I said was if you play and/or have played MLRH then you know the risk. If you don't like the risk of getting hurt then DON'T PLAY MLRH. In fact if you don't want to get hurt avoid hockey all together... play basketball or something. I've played in many no contact/ no fighting leagues and still have had bad injuries. I had a teammate brake his leg playing in NCRHA which is a no checking league. Roller hockey is a physical sport because it’s still hockey. Cheap shots come in all levels of contact hockey not just MLRH. (Has anyone watched or played Junior C?) I saw what happened in the Thunders' game and I don't think what happened was the result of ignorance. I don't know either player personally but, I’ll bet that both of them have played ice hockey and both of them knew how to hit. Furthermore, I don't like what’s being said about MLRH players. The majority of player in that league are talented players and they play because they love the sport, not to go injure someone.



This is a good post. "you know the risk, if you don't want to risk getting hurt, go play basketball."

[DUHockey9]

My personal opinion is that checking in roller hockey is pointless and unnecessary. When you put checking into roller hockey it just becomes ice hockey with slightly different rules and worse players. I believe roller hockey is the amazing game it is because it isn't full contact.

In my experience ice hockey players have a strong distaste for roller hockey; and my argument to them was that they aren't even comparable. Not even in the slightest. However, when you put full check into roller hockey, I think it almost becomes gimmick ice hockey. I just don't see the point. The fact that you can't rely solely on big hits and physical dominance makes roller hockey what it is.

[phil29]

shouldn't the focus stay on track with him receiving a hit to the head? clean or dirty still unnecessary. getting off track off topic as usual.

[njstampede12]

I agree phil. Update on Mike guy he is getting his jaw wired shut 6-8 weeks cracked wisdom teeth and busted his jaw in 2 places. This is what happens to someone that gets hit with a cheap head shot. Also don't sit here and make up excuses like if you know the sport is rough, don't play it go play basketball. Don't give me that bull we all know hockey is rough but when you take a cheap elbow to the head it's a different story.

[phil29]

he should be suspended for the amount of time mike will miss. there should be a rule like this in all sports.

[Sinister Soup]

I agree phil. Update on Mike guy he is getting his jaw wired shut 6-8 weeks cracked wisdom teeth and busted his jaw in 2 places. This is what happens to someone that gets hit with a cheap head shot. Also don't sit here and make up excuses like if you know the sport is rough, don't play it go play basketball. Don't give me that bull we all know hockey is rough but when you take a cheap elbow to the head it's a different story.



Sorry to the guy who got hit. But the hit wasn't all that dirty. From the video looks like the Michigan player was coming down full speed and put his head down for one sec. while the defenseman stepped up to play the man. Yeah the hit was definatly worth either a double minor or a five minute major, but this is a hitting league, and it is a high-contact sport. I can't speculate whether or not the detroit player was head hunting, but he was just stepping up in a hitting league, but didn't hit properly. 5 minute major or 1 game suspension nothing more.

I feel bad for mike I really do but i agree with Jkahn 09 he shouldn't get more then a 1 game suspension. I don't think removing checking nor this particular defender from MLRH is going stop people from getting hurt. A saw a guy in NCRHA (non checking league) that almost had to get his arm ambutated after a game. Luckly he's ok but this sort of thing happens in hockey.

[whizbang]

here's the deal,let it be ice or roller our sport is finally great. fast packed. and full of excitement. we dont want to remove hitting from the game nor slow it down. however hits to the head need to be removed for good on any level. even if they are clean. on a professional level hockey becomes a buisness and players are assets that fill the stands. we have to protect our players.each hit to the head should be penalized as a five min major with a pending suspension based on further review by some sort of panel. an intent to injure should be left to the ref to call or not call circumstances permiting. hey even if chara hits gionta, factoring the size differnce a skilled ref should be able to determin if there was intent.

as for the mlrh. and hitting in roller hockey. it's stupid. there's hardly any board work, and everyone goes for the big open ice hits. pretty foolish when no one wears upper body protection.

after watching the hit. i can not phathom the point of playing in a leauge like that.

mike, come play in the aihl!

[Jkahn09]

here's the deal,let it be ice or roller our sport is finally great. fast packed. and full of excitement. we dont want to remove hitting from the game nor slow it down. however hits to the head need to be removed for good on any level. even if they are clean. on a professional level hockey becomes a buisness and players are assets that fill the stands. we have to protect our players.each hit to the head should be penalized as a five min major with a pending suspension based on further review by some sort of panel. an intent to injure should be left to the ref to call or not call circumstances permiting. hey even if chara hits gionta, factoring the size differnce a skilled ref should be able to determin if there was intent.

as for the mlrh. and hitting in roller hockey. it's stupid. there's hardly any board work, and everyone goes for the big open ice hits. pretty foolish when no one wears upper body protection.

after watching the hit. i can not phathom the point of playing in a leauge like that.

mike, come play in the aihl!



I agree with you i think that roler hockey should be more of board hitting and less open ice hit because a.) a lot of guys don't wear mouth guards which stop you from biting your tongue off, and b.) no one is wearing upper body padding. With all that aside, roller hockey is supposed to be a high scoring fast paced game, so hitting on the boards would make more sense. AS for the hit, I don't think the guy INTENDED on hurting the michigan player. It was a dirty hit cause the guy got hurt, but with all that being said i think that the defenseman just didn't know how to hit properly and left his elbow up. when something is coming that fast and contact is made, the object will come to rest. Some gravity thing like that. Anyways hopefully MLRH sanctions the hitting a little bit more closely so that future players aren't taken out of games or half of the season. But no reason to sit here and all of you chastise a league because you don't think its a good league or because you play in aihl or piha. All three leagues have their advantages and disadvantages. Finally, just cause hes your friend you don't have to say oh suspend this guy forever, kick him out of league because we know you're pissed that your friend is real hurt. But go back and watch the video, the defensemen stepped up and left his elbow up. Like i said before clearly a five minute major and a game suspension anymore would be saying that a hit from behind is less damage.

[whizbang]

here's my beef, if your not hitting against the boards and only looking for open ice hits. BIG, HUGE, open ice hits. then 2 things are going throuh your mind. A) im going to hit this guy as hard as i can (knowing he's not wearing full gear) B) this guy pissed me off and im going to hurt him.

so yes it was a dirty hit.

NOT defensive. because any responible D-man that plays the game knows coach hates it when you try to level someone with a big open ice check. if you get beat.... you're screwed.

so! if your not hitting to gain possesion of the puck. impead the play. or just trying to play solid d-fense. then you should go play basketball.

[iceburg]

If you signed up to play in a checking league then you have to expect to get the worst of it some time or another.whether its a cheap shot or not.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

If you signed up to play in a checking league then you have to expect to get the worst of it some time or another.whether its a cheap shot or not.

great point as well.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Itan is a nasty player and its great for any league that he plays in. He played in the AIHL last season as well and if PIHA was on the west coast Im sure he would play in that league too. Hes what it is all about, just playing because he loves playing.

PIHA has live games on video through Justintv and the AIHL has live video of games as well on its site and the ratcast. Kudos to MLRH for have a good broadcast!

I love hitting in hockey and played along with TJ in MLRH and XIHL.

Its not the hitting that is the only problem, it is the circus acts that go along with it.
As I have said there are NO repercussions for guys who goon it up in any league.

In just about every MLRH or XIHL game that I played in, the last 2 minutes of the game was basically a sideshow of fighting if the game wasnt close. A Boston team one year had a player with a pro ice background whose only job was to fight every single shift on the rink.

The first time that a talented player gets his bell rung with a cheap hit by a goon is probably the last time.

Why is that?

Because hes not getting paid to have his playing career put on the line. He can score just as many goals in front of just a few fans playing somewhere without checking.


Marple, the Jersey Ottakringer, Boston, Hartford were all powerhouse teams in full check leagues in the early 2000's. Almost every player from team usa from those years was on one of those teams. 80% of those guys still play. They play on team usa, Narch, Statewars, AIHL, PIHA yet there are no full check teams in the New England region today.

Why is that?

Its 100% true that you get what you sign up for. People vote with their feet and their money and for better or for worse most guys will not go near any full check inline league today whether its MLRH or whatever.

Face it, Narch pro and platinum allow ALOT of body contact and there is the occassional fight and they draw all top notch talent. But rarely is there serious injury from overly physical play. guys play there because they know they are not at any more risk of being injured from dirty play.

Love whatever league that you play in but if that league you are in is ok with flaunting injury to players (whether they are stars or not) and has a long history of promoting the physical aspect over the hockey do not be upset when people question it.

No league is perfect in any way.

I think its important and shows that we care so much about the sport and the close community of inline that when a friend and fellow player gets hurt we question it. We should question it regardless of what leauge patch the players wear on their jerseys. If something is promoting injury to our already small pool of players we should attempt to fix it so it doesnt hurt any more players.

We need accountability from all parties involved so that we can make the sport better.

[njstampede12]

If you signed up to play in a checking league then you have to expect to get the worst of it some time or another.whether its a cheap shot or not.


So if you were to catch a cheap elbow to the head and be out for close ot 2 months and get you jaw wired shut and have a concussion would that be ok?

[phil29]

This is still getting twisted. I believe he was well aware of the risks. The problem is the hit that went on display. He should be suspended more than one game. NHL players get anywhere from 2-6 now a days.

[njstampede12]

I Agree phil this guy should get 6-10 games suspension.

[Phelan96]

This is horrendous, I'm sorry for Mike that there aren't any close PIHA or AIHL teams for him to play on.

And I love how on the site they talk about the hit like it was an awesome highlight, Mike prob left in an ambulance. WTF

[hockeymum]

i think that as mentioned above, accountability should really be the heart of the discussion. it is fair to say that if you play in a checking league, you know the potential. BUT you are also relying on your governing and judicial bodies to enforce the rule of law. it is essential to preserving the integrity of the game.

lots of people are killed in auto accidents every year...do i need to understand that when i drive a car there is always the potential for an accident, sure. but if i cause an accident, or even simply break the rules of the road, i am held accountable by numerous other parties, whether or not what i did was intentional. it being intentional simply increases the level of consequence. the reason for the rules is to provide order and deter dangerous behavior to provide as safe an environment as possible.

if the league want to deter this kind of hitting, intentional or not, it needs to unapologetically enforce the rules. if leading with the elbow and head contact are to be detered the consequences need to be severe enough to make an impact...imo, one game will probably not send any meaningful message. if intent has been reasonably established as well, imo, additional consequence should be added. The league needs to decide its first priority; deter illegal actions and protect your players while still being able to promote contact hockey, or promote contact at any cost for its perceived value to fans and sponsors. if the league is honest about its goals, then players can make an informed decisions about whether to participate.

as a fan, i want to see them promote good clean hockey. i do not want to see good hockey players needlessly hurt and i do not want to see a potentially great league end up like the WWE of hockey with watered down talent because the best do not want to risk injury.

[njstampede12]

Jack totally Agree. Mike is doing better i have been speaking with him through phone and now text since his jaw was wired shut.

[yokes]

Hope Mike gets better soon.

Matt hit the nail on the head as to why there are no New England/Northeast teams left. And yes im aware there is the Blackout in PA.

[lufria55]

Again, on behalf of the Detroit Revolution, we wish Mike a speedy recovery!

[DCbullets14]

If you signed up to play in a checking league then you have to expect to get the worst of it some time or another.whether its a cheap shot or not.

I think this is interesting. In my opinion leading with an elbow is not a check. Checking is done with the shoulder (assuming he lead with the elbow). Just because slashing occurs in hockey does not mean that you should expect someone to try to break your leg with a slash.

Certainly there are dirty plays in all levels of hockey but the real question is how these plays are handled afterward. In this case it seems like this hit was glorified on the website. This is not the first time a dirty play has occured at a MLRH event. At last years eurocup there was the player who slashed the guys leg (4 or 5 times) until he was on the ground and then dropped the gloves. The MLRH has repeatedly managed these situations poorly.

In some ways this is a great opportunity for the MLRH to show that they are really pushing to make changes to the league. Hopefully the league can come out of this with an improved image.

[alex]

"You know the risk of playing hockey and if you don't like it play (insert less physical sport here)" might be the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

[lufria55]

After recieving numerous emails as well as phone calls regarding this hit from many individuals, i thought it would be interesting to see this hit and what I personally believe to have happened in the game.

Before I continue:


This is not about if hitting is necessary, or what degree of hitting is necessary
This is not MLRH vs PIHA vs AIHL
This is not about if the "aggressiveness" of the check was necessary


What i'm tying to state with this post is that Todd Orlando did not in fact lead with his elbow, and did not intentionally try to harm Mike Francis. It's very unfornatute what happened with Mike, it really is. But as hockey players, we owe it to the sport to call it as we see it, which is a bit

What i have is the raw footage of the game, so i've taken over 100 stillshots of the incident. Also, fyi, there has been no talks of suspensions or anything in regards with that with the MLRH.

398
Click on the picture to enlarge - The approach
Stillshot 1

399
One of the important pictures. Mike Francis is about to make contact with Orlando. Notice Orlando's body position - arms down, leaned in, and NOT elbow first.

400
The defining picture that clearly shows Orlando did not lead with his elbow, nor was the initial impact caused with anything other than a shoulder. This picture puts into perspective that Francis's hit wasn't premeditated, nor an elbow.



401
This picture is when the actual impract has occured. The full blow has been delivered, and clearly, Orlando's arms are down, and not up. In my opinion, there's nothing in these three pictures that would suggest anything other than a bigger, 6'9 player catching a smaller playing with his head down, cutting towards the middle.


402
The followthrough begins. Francis is already on his way down and Orlando's hands are at Francis's chest.


I hope this better illustrates why we think the hit wasn't an intent to injure elbowing call. Again, i'm not here to state if open-floor hitting is appropriate. I'm not here to say it was right or wrong. All this post is designed to do is to state why I believe a suspension in this situation is not automatic, because a very well liked marquee player gets hurt. We all with Mike the best, speedy recovery we can.

[zz022]

I hope this better illustrates why we think the hit wasn't an intent to injure elbowing call. Again, i'm not here to state if open-floor hitting is appropriate. I'm not here to say it was right or wrong. All this post is designed to do is to state why I believe a suspension in this situation is not automatic, because a very well liked marquee player gets hurt. We all with Mike the best, speedy recovery we can.

Mike,

Thank you for that amazingly thought out post. It's always nice to see those in charge of the parties involved giving the public answers as to what their opinions are. While I didn't believe the hit was dirty on first look, your post has now confirmed this for me.

Thanks again.

[Alvare71]

After recieving numerous emails as well as phone calls regarding this hit from many individuals, i thought it would be interesting to see this hit and what I personally believe to have happened in the game.

Before I continue:


This is not about if hitting is necessary, or what degree of hitting is necessary
This is not MLRH vs PIHA vs AIHL
This is not about if the "aggressiveness" of the check was necessary


What i'm tying to state with this post is that Todd Orlando did not in fact lead with his elbow, and did not intentionally try to harm Mike Francis. It's very unfornatute what happened with Mike, it really is. But as hockey players, we owe it to the sport to call it as we see it, which is a bit

What i have is the raw footage of the game, so i've taken over 100 stillshots of the incident. Also, fyi, there has been no talks of suspensions or anything in regards with that with the MLRH.

398
Click on the picture to enlarge - The approach
Stillshot 1

399
One of the important pictures. Mike Francis is about to make contact with Orlando. Notice Orlando's body position - arms down, leaned in, and NOT elbow first.

400
The defining picture that clearly shows Orlando did not lead with his elbow, nor was the initial impact caused with anything other than a shoulder. This picture puts into perspective that Francis's hit wasn't premeditated, nor an elbow.



401
This picture is when the actual impract has occured. The full blow has been delivered, and clearly, Orlando's arms are down, and not up. In my opinion, there's nothing in these three pictures that would suggest anything other than a bigger, 6'9 player catching a smaller playing with his head down, cutting towards the middle.


402
The followthrough begins. Francis is already on his way down and Orlando's hands are at Francis's chest.


I hope this better illustrates why we think the hit wasn't an intent to injure elbowing call. Again, i'm not here to state if open-floor hitting is appropriate. I'm not here to say it was right or wrong. All this post is designed to do is to state why I believe a suspension in this situation is not automatic, because a very well liked marquee player gets hurt. We all with Mike the best, speedy recovery we can.

It sure looks like a clean hit to me, I had a teammate in the MLRH get his jaw broke and wired it happens. Just be glad that he will recover.

I am glad the photo's were posted to discredit a dirty check and showing all the anti_MLRH people that injuries happen.

Who doesnt play hurt?

At least there is proof to no wrong doing.........

[lufria55]

It sure looks like a clean hit to me, I had a teammate in the MLRH get his jaw broke and wired it happens. Just be glad that he will recover.

I am glad the photo's were posted to discredit a dirty check and showing all the anti_MLRH people that injuries happen.

Who doesnt play hurt?

At least there is proof to no wrong doing.........

I appreciate the comments. I am confident that it's a clean hit.

With an injury, you may WANT a infraction or penalty, but in full contact, sometimes that's not always the case, which is what I was afraid of with this instance. At this time MLRH has not penalized us for the hit.

[phil29]

i was just going by the video and its clearly not 100% high quality.

[lufria55]

Oh for sure Phil. I wish i had the original tape from the camera - it would have been much better picture. that one we have has been rendered through VIMEO.

[njstampede12]

Oh for sure Phil. I wish i had the original tape from the camera - it would have been much better picture. that one we have has been rendered through VIMEO.


I seen the video and your player is a joke. He is a cheap player that threw a cheap elbow.

[whizbang]

i feel more that the mlrh is a clown show, and slam hockey is a joke. players are left unprotected, and this is what happens. crap like this doesnt happen in the aihl, or piha. and the nhl is seriously talking with the gms on how to take head shots out of the game. even if they are clean.
the intent behind a hit is almost as important as if the elbow comes up, or stays down. if your not going to hit along the boards, and only wait for an oportinity to run somebody with a huge open ice hit. then you're an @$% hole. we're loosing mututal repect between the players. it's busch leauge.

[jbatafuco]

It was a pretty brutal hit and the guy got caught with his head down. Sucks, but the photos pretty much show that it was legal.

I think that hitting really doesn't have much of a place in roller hockey period though, especially open rink stuff like that. To me, roller is supposed to be more wide open and about puck movement and speed rather than hitting, especially when guys aren't wearing pads. However, those are the rules for that league and it is what it is, guys jaw is broke on a hit within the rules.

I still play ice five days a week and really don't play roller anymore, but I always wear a full cage and did when I played adult and tournament roller. To me, its stupid not to unless you're a true professional, i.e. paid to play. Everyone says that they have to go to work on mondays and I am no different and to me, protecting my eyes, nose, chin and the rest of my face with a cage only makes sense. Maybe if the guy was wearing a cage they would be talking about the other guys broken shoulder instead of his broken jaw. Just a thought.

[njstampede12]

It was a pretty brutal hit and the guy got caught with his head down. Sucks, but the photos pretty much show that it was legal.

I think that hitting really doesn't have much of a place in roller hockey period though, especially open rink stuff like that. To me, roller is supposed to be more wide open and about puck movement and speed rather than hitting, especially when guys aren't wearing pads. However, those are the rules for that league and it is what it is, guys jaw is broke on a hit within the rules.

I still play ice five days a week and really don't play roller anymore, but I always wear a full cage and did when I played adult and tournament roller. To me, its stupid not to unless you're a true professional, i.e. paid to play. Everyone says that they have to go to work on mondays and I am no different and to me, protecting my eyes, nose, chin and the rest of my face with a cage only makes sense. Maybe if the guy was wearing a cage they would be talking about the other guys broken shoulder instead of his broken jaw. Just a thought.



The Pics don't justify anything. Watch the Video on how cheap this guy is.

[jbatafuco]

The Pics don't justify anything. Watch the Video on how cheap this guy is.

I did watch the video. Also, the pics are a frame by frame slow down of the video, so I don't know how that would be any different. I don't disagree with the fact that hitting and roller hockey don't belong together; however, in this league where the hit happened, it is within the rules of the game. It was a legal hit, and apparently he won't be suspended for it either. I don't really agree that it should have happened but you can't fault a guy for an elbow down, feet on the ground hit when it is made within the parameters of the rules.

Also, all the talk of "this wouldn't happen in ____ league" is ridiculous. Granted, there is less risk of injury in a league that doesn't allow hitting, but the reality is this... you play hockey = you will get injured at some point. My worst injuries in my years of hockey were in a non-contact house roller hockey league, not in any of the ice that I played and still play or the travel roller tourneys I played. I find it hard to believe that there are no cheap shots in the aihl, that there aren't accidental high sticks and deflected pucks in the aihl, etc. It can happen anywhere.

[njstampede12]

The guy led with his elbow cheap shotted mike also got thrown out of the game and should be suspended.

[Icebox]

The guy led with his elbow cheap shotted mike also got thrown out of the game and should be suspended.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that in reality, it was a clean hit and unfortunate situation. Cheap shot, it was not.

[njstampede12]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that in reality, it was a clean hit and unfortunate situation. Cheap shot, it was not.

The fact that i just got news that this clown is getting suspended means it was a cheap shot and not a legal hit.

[quick_dry]

The fact that i just got news that this clown is getting suspended means it was a cheap shot and not a legal hit.
that might mean the "powers that be" decided it was for whatever reason.

If the frame by frame shots are genuine (and I see no reason to doubt them) then there is no way that that hit is a 'cheap shot', or anything but a clean hit.

Did you even look at the frame by frame pics? no elbow, feet on the ground, nothing but a big guy checking a little guy.

[lufria55]

Todd is not being suspended. League owner Bill Raue made that very clear in person last night. Unless something has suddenly changed in the last 12 hours, then i'm pretty sure he's clear to play, considering it was brought up last night before the game he played in.

[Icebox]

The fact that i just got news that this clown is getting suspended means it was a cheap shot and not a legal hit.

I'm pretty sure that you're just proving your ignorance. The frame by frame clearly shows a clean hit by all means. It may "look" cheap in the video...but as time has shown, full speed video is not the most accurate thing to gauge sensitive plays by...hence instant replay being so popular.

Who is your source stating the suspension? And even if that is the case, it is most likely due to pressure, and not the actuality of the check.

[lufria55]

I am also curious as to the source.

[lufria55]

njstampede12:

After reading your last several posts, first I must say you are completely ignorant. Stop biasing your opinion just because you feel bad for Mike Francis; he is a great player, so I understand where you are coming from. I must say, maybe he should keep his head up?. This is a full contact league whether you like it or not, and skating into the zone with his head WAY down trying to control the puck is just asking for a huge hit to happen. Mike is an experienced player, and while I hope Mike a speedy recovery, this is partly his fault as well.

Stop basing your opinion on a low level-quality internet video that is extremely hard to follow. If you look at the frame by frame images Lufria55 posted instead of ignoring them, you would have realized you are saying things that have been proven wrong. He clearly made contact with his shoulder first, which is where most of the blow occurred. The part where his elbow made contact after the fact probably did nothing to further hurt Mike either.

I have watched Todd Orlando play ice-hockey for years. He won national championships with Oakland University, one of which I got to witness. He is probably by far the hardest hitter and fighter the MLRH is going to see. He knows how to hit. He knows how to fight. And he knows how to play hockey. So stop dissing a very experienced, high-level ice hockey player. He came to this league expecting a normal, full-contact league that allows hard, legal hits such as the one he put on Mike.

It is thanks to you sissies why full contact roller hockey isn't popular, and why ice hockey players think our sport is a joke. You are only hurting MLRH's efforts. Hitting and fighting draws the crowds, it's a proven fact.

So please, shut up already and keep your heads up.

If you've watched orlando play, you must be from around my area. You also sound like an ice player. Nothing wrong with either of those traits.

However, the "sissies as to why roller hockey isn't popular" isn't because hitting isn't in the game. If you play or know anything about roller hockey in our area (Michigan area) you know we lack a pro division of any kind. It's all about politics and whatnot. When MLRH offered a spot to us, I believed that hitting and fighting would be something that I could build an efficient team in.

Traditionally roller is a non-checking sport. Many people beleive that's the way it should be. Opinions aside, understand that MLRH is the league that's most criticized. It's not just the hitting that brings 240+ fans into our building - it's hockey that all fans like to see. Given that our last two games were against weaker teams, we're all looking forward to playing Florida, but not for the hitting - for the chance to play a very skilled team.

But, as previously stated, this thread isn't a MLRH vs PIHA vs AIHL thread. The only reason i'm here is to clarify what's happening in regards to that hit, and as well as my personal take on it.

[njstampede12]

Florida's Chris Street left early after losing his front teeth on a Paul Bailey hit. Another good player victim to injury. hope you feel better Street.

It is thanks to you sissies why full contact roller hockey isn't popular, and why ice hockey players think our sport is a joke. You are only hurting MLRH's efforts. Hitting and fighting draws the crowds, it's a proven fact.

LOL i have played in mlrh back in the day when it was a real league when players came to the rink to play hockey and not wanting to run another player to get that big hit. Thats not hockey at all. how many efforts is this league going to get year after year?

[Sinister Soup]

If you've watched orlando play, you must be from around my area. You also sound like an ice player. Nothing wrong with either of those traits.

However, the "sissies as to why roller hockey isn't popular" isn't because hitting isn't in the game. If you play or know anything about roller hockey in our area (Michigan area) you know we lack a pro division of any kind. It's all about politics and whatnot. When MLRH offered a spot to us, I believed that hitting and fighting would be something that I could build an efficient team in.

Traditionally roller is a non-checking sport. Many people beleive that's the way it should be. Opinions aside, understand that MLRH is the league that's most criticized. It's not just the hitting that brings 240+ fans into our building - it's hockey that all fans like to see. Given that our last two games were against weaker teams, we're all looking forward to playing Florida, but not for the hitting - for the chance to play a very skilled team.

But, as previously stated, this thread isn't a MLRH vs PIHA vs AIHL thread. The only reason i'm here is to clarify what's happening in regards to that hit, and as well as my personal take on it.


come on mike you can't figure out who xjbell8x is .... (j...bell...8)

[jbatafuco]

[QUOTE=njstampede12;63007]Florida's Chris Street left early after losing his front teeth on a Paul Bailey hit. Another good player victim to injury. hope you feel better Street.

Once again, sucks, but its part of the rules in the game they are playing. I don't know if the hit was clean or dirty or whatever, but like i said before..

you play hockey = you will be injured at some point

There is no way around it. At the end of the day, players can always protect themselves better when they are playing full contact if they so choose to prevent broken jaws and lost teeth, and Im sure they are aware of that and choose not to; thus, they are implicitly accepting the risk of stuff like that happening.

[lufria55]

come on mike you can't figure out who xjbell8x is .... (j...bell...8)

thats a good catch. that'll be removed asap.

Jake - i have this covered. I don't need anyone elses input from our organization. Please remove your posts and refrain from talking about this incident. (please check your FB inbox)

[Mlrhnorthfan]

For the record, -TJ, Troho, the Katinskys, and alot of the other 'sissies' on this board played full check roller hockey when the sport was littered with pro,semi-pro, and Division 1 college ice players.

Its not any leagues' fault - its all of them. There has to be a 'gentlemens' agreement that when a player gets tossed from one league or GB that the others will not allow him to play there either.

[cusanorojo]

I've read most of these posts about cheap shots and what not in the MLRH. I've played and watched many MLRH games last year and it's an absolute joke. The league is brutal, the competition is junk and that's why people are getting cheap shots and getting hurt. There's players in the league who don't know how to hit or recieve a hit and some of the players don't have any talent and think their enforcers out there. It's a pathetic concept for roller hockey. There's icing, offsides, and terrible fights. I'm sure some of you have seen NARCH or a Torhs tournament (narch is better comp) and that is some real roller hockey. There's serious talent from allover North america competing in the tournament. Torhs even does full check for the pro division and players understand how to check and aren't out their looking to cheap shot of fight (which you can at Torhs). So forget about the MLRH, it's an absolute JOKE....why do you think VERSUS canned the championship game from being played....IT"S a JOKEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Alvare71]

I've read most of these posts about cheap shots and what not in the MLRH. I've played and watched many MLRH games last year and it's an absolute joke. The league is brutal, the competition is junk and that's why people are getting cheap shots and getting hurt. There's players in the league who don't know how to hit or recieve a hit and some of the players don't have any talent and think their enforcers out there. It's a pathetic concept for roller hockey. There's icing, offsides, and terrible fights. I'm sure some of you have seen NARCH or a Torhs tournament (narch is better comp) and that is some real roller hockey. There's serious talent from allover North america competing in the tournament. Torhs even does full check for the pro division and players understand how to check and aren't out their looking to cheap shot of fight (which you can at Torhs). So forget about the MLRH, it's an absolute JOKE....why do you think VERSUS canned the championship game from being played....IT"S a JOKEEEEE!!!!!!!


ONLY COWARDS DONT SIGN THEIR NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How come no one told him to sign his name????????????


FUNNY!!!!!!!!!

SIGN IT COWARD!!!!!!!!

11 posts, you must be an anti fun hockey player!!!!!!!! How dare you!!!!

[njstampede12]

I've read most of these posts about cheap shots and what not in the MLRH. I've played and watched many MLRH games last year and it's an absolute joke. The league is brutal, the competition is junk and that's why people are getting cheap shots and getting hurt. There's players in the league who don't know how to hit or recieve a hit and some of the players don't have any talent and think their enforcers out there. It's a pathetic concept for roller hockey. There's icing, offsides, and terrible fights. I'm sure some of you have seen NARCH or a Torhs tournament (narch is better comp) and that is some real roller hockey. There's serious talent from allover North america competing in the tournament. Torhs even does full check for the pro division and players understand how to check and aren't out their looking to cheap shot of fight (which you can at Torhs). So forget about the MLRH, it's an absolute JOKE....why do you think VERSUS canned the championship game from being played....IT"S a JOKEEEEE!!!!!!!


Great Post my friend.

[yokes]

Every year we read about MLRH and a cheap hit or something else not productive to our sport. I played in many MLRH games and there were ALOT of big hits and fights back then but 99% of those players respected each other thats why you didnt see this back then.

[Alvare71]

great post my friend.


dee de de!!!!!!!!!

[DCbullets14]

Dave,
Have you seen a MLRH game recently? I expect that you played in the league back it the glory days but things have changed recently.

[lufria55]

TJ, you still have not told your source of this suspension.

[Doug Jones]

We played two games last weekend where there were NO CHEAP Shots....

it amazes me how the same people who have nothing better to do than just bad mouth continue to do what they always have, badmouth.

Dave Alvare, where do you play and for what team?

[yokes]

We played two games last weekend where there were NO CHEAP Shots....

it amazes me how the same people who have nothing better to do than just bad mouth continue to do what they always have, badmouth.


I'm simply stating facts. Look at the rosters from 2001 of the Crush and Glads all the way to 2005 when teams and players started to leave for different reasons. XIHL and PIHA starting were 2 factors, but not the main reason. I personally know of teammates that no longer wanted to risk being hurt over these games cause they started to get waaaay out of hand. And without going into names, these players are some of the most respected in the game. Names that when they say they aren't playing this league anymore have alot of people listen and cause a ripple effect. Now Doug i'm not sure if any of the bad mouthing comment was aimed at me or not so i figured id state the facts of what id been told, know to be true, and seen first hand with the players leaving this league. I guess if i have to i can also tell you where i play/played if needed.

Jason Yocum "Yokes"

[missionhockey19]

We played two games last weekend where there were NO CHEAP Shots....

it amazes me how the same people who have nothing better to do than just bad mouth continue to do what they always have, badmouth.

Dave Alvare, where do you play and for what team?

I've got the bruise and picture from the two hand one of your guys did, streets got missing teeth from a late check and my lips split open from another guy trying to wrap his glove/stick around my face...I wouldnt say it was a cheap game but there were definately some things that never should have happened. but its hockey so who cares

[Doug Jones]

This message board is becoming increasingly known for the consistent group of whiners and it's the same people who do the whining.

All you do is badmouth this and that. It gets tiring and I personally, am sick of it.

[Doug Jones]

I've got the bruise and picture from the two hand one of your guys did, streets got missing teeth from a late check and my lips split open from another guy trying to wrap his glove/stick around my face...I wouldnt say it was a cheap game but there were definately some things that never should have happened. but its hockey so who cares

Chris fixed his teeth. He had an overbite before and now, he looks like he belongs in Hollywood. We won't send him the bill which most orthodontist's charge thousands for...

Nice hat trick by the way Saturday night.

[Alvare71]

Dave,
Have you seen a MLRH game recently? I expect that you played in the league back it the glory days but things have changed recently.

You know me DC.....I used to be your coach.....

[Alvare71]

We played two games last weekend where there were NO CHEAP Shots....

it amazes me how the same people who have nothing better to do than just bad mouth continue to do what they always have, badmouth.

Dave Alvare, where do you play and for what team?


I am in training and I have been healing some major injuries, I will be back soon.

I love the MLRH and I am good friends with Bill.

You can see my profile and That will give you my experience and I think its great that your succeeding so well down south.

[yokes]

So is there any sort of insurance in this league or is Mike going to have to pay his bills on his own? Haven't talked to Street but if he lost teeth then i cant imagine that's cheap, any idea of how much of that is being covered also if any?

IHC is a public forum created to discuss Inline Hockey in all forms. Its here to discuss the good, bad, and whatever else by whomever desires. Now if a group of people, I.E. in this thread, have a problem with a player being seriously injured in our sport and want to know the hows and whys they are free to do so. If your tired of it then its simple enough to not read, such as i have about plenty of other topics on here. The reason ive decided to say something now is that enough is enough, what happens next when someone is boarded into a broken neck? The league will go on the following season and the player can learn to walk again because its hockey and knew what he was getting into?

Doug, ill address you again since a blanket answer was given the last time. The question is where do you see me whinning and being a constant bad mouth? But a more important question that id rather hear entered is the first paragraph.

[DCbullets14]

Im pretty sure Doug was again aiming his comments in my direction. If I am correct with my assessment he should reread my previous post because it does not say anything negative about the league.

My comment was directed specifically to Dave since he was a former coach of mine and I was trying to see what he has been up to in recent years.

[Jon E. Smith]

i went to greenville this past weekend to watch the fusion and buccaneers play mlrh2. here's my two cents worth of what I got out of it, if you are fielding a mlrh2 team, make sure your players know how to give and recieve a check. i'll bet a dime that some of the players never played a game of full contact before friday.

team owners, coaches and gm's do a player right, teach him or don't play him. someone could get hurt badly and as for most of these guys, they must get up monday and go to work to support this game they play.

i'll end with this......speed kills so buckle up those seat belts.

jon e. smith

[njstampede12]

TJ, you still have not told your source of this suspension.

Bill Raue himself emailed me and told me.

[minutemen]

It all comes down to the numbers folks. Within the last couple of weeks, two key players in MLRH have been hurt. Have you heard any of this from AIHL or PIHA? The problem is not the checking, but most of the players have no clue how to hit. When you have a majority of people who were never taught how to hit, this will happen all season. You call some people whinners, just seems to me they are looking out for the better interest of players in the sport. None of us want to see this keep happening.

Good hit or not, rules have to be enforced to control this. Very simple stop open rink hits and full body checks along the boards (running people). Hitting should only be allowed to play the person off the puck, not to kill someone. I have seen a lot MLRH games the last 2 years, and I see a lot of running people, high sticks to the face and upper body, elbows and tomahawk slashes.

So you may call me a whinner, and that is fine, we just care about people getting hurt. I am not against MLRH, but they need to become strict on the rules and learn to control the problems.

[Sinister Soup]

This thread just keeps going on and on. We were talking about a hit in a game which happened two weeks ago... and I think we concluded that the hit was clean. The remainder of this thread has been people, who don't even play in MLRH, complaining about MLRH rules. The arguments against MLRH would seem legitimate if they were coming from MLRH players but they are not. If you play in PIHA or AIHL then worry about your league and let MLRH worry about theirs. If MLRH is such a blood bath then why are there still people playing?

And as far as the numbers speaking for themselves

AIHL founded in 2008
PIHA founded in 2002
MLRH founded in 1998

If MLRH is so bad then why has it been around for so long?

[njstampede12]

This thread just keeps going on and on. We were talking about a hit in a game which happened two weeks ago... and I think we concluded that the hit was clean. The remainder of this thread has been people, who don't even play in MLRH, complaining about MLRH rules. The arguments against MLRH would seem legitimate if they were coming from MLRH players but they are not. If you play in PIHA or AIHL then worry about your league and let MLRH worry about theirs. If MLRH is such a blood bath then why are there still people playing?

And as far as the numbers speaking for themselves

AIHL founded in 2008
PIHA founded in 2002
MLRH founded in 1998

If MLRH is so bad then why has it been around for so long?

No you clowns thinking its ok to hit a guy up high think that hit was clean.

[DCbullets14]

can we stay on topic? I dont think you really want to bring up statistics as that argument might lead to number of players involved with the league which might not be the direction this thread should take as it could look negative on the MLRH.

[Sinister Soup]

SC vs FL had 400 people at their game...

[njstampede12]

It does not matter how many people were at the games. The fact is 2 star players in the league went down with injuries in back to back weeks.

[Troho9]

"MLRH founded in 1998"

Actually it was founded in 1996. The 1st two seasons, 1996-1997 & 1997-1998 were paid.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I hope that Street and Francis have their own insurance.

Its all about perspective. I loved playing fullcheck, thought it was awesome and gave inline some credibility.

Then I got a dirty elbow in the back of the head 4 feet from the boards that shattered my nose and ruined my sinus cavities on the glass from a goon that couldnt skate. I had to go to work on Monday and explain it and not get fired from my real job.

Spent a year trying to get the 'insurance' to reimburse me for the outpatient surgery costs over my own insurance with no luck.

Everytime I talked to a league official on the phone i got the 'we are working on it'.

Then at any league event they would see me coming and amazingly find somewhere else to be at that moment. And I am sure that Im not the only one that this has happened to. Imagine if I didnt have my own insurance, which I know many of our teammates these days do not have.

I got what I signed up for. Full check roller hockey where you arent getting paid to play. No repercussions for actions.

wonder why we dont see more than one or two Narch pro players playing full check? or why there are NEVER any stats on the league page?

The MLRH comes back every year because for the most part they get new teams every year or recycle old logos with new faces.

its going to happen. your going to get hurt and realize its not worth it and quit. Its not about being a tough guy, its about realizing that you need to make a living or take of your family.

Hockey is fun, but no one here is going to the NHL. Leaving the checking and the fighting to the real pros.

You can still draw crowds without the circus act. Doug and the pirates can draw a crowd without the fighting. The PIHA in ST louis drew 400 a night when Garland ran the division. the 495ers, sharks, and Ants all get 200plus consistently for home games.

[lufria55]

Bill Raue himself emailed me and told me.

If you don't mind, i'd like a copy of that email. [email protected]

[alex]

MLRH was founded first, therefore it is a better league/can't be bad. Flawless logic.

[njstampede12]

So was the WHA is that still around? No

[Alvare71]

Ok........

Guys hit all of the time!

right or wrong, it is your job to PROTECT yourself at all times....


I find it interesting that its never the person involved talking....

He's can have a cage, he can not skate, he can keep his head up!

We clearly see the video and some OJ believers still call it a bad hit...


Have you watched NON check its boring.....

If you dont want to get hit or fight then dont play!!!!

Do you honestly think a new spectator would watch non-check and that was not involved with the player or family......

Come on guys we do need to reinvent the wheel!!!!!!!!!!!

the problem with all these subjects is that you have SALLY"S not understanding how to debate and solve issues....

[njstampede12]

Are you kidding me dave. Sometimes you have good things to say but i disagree with what you say. Try watching or playing in a torhs/narch pro game. that is exciting enough to be apart of playing against players like CJ Yoder,Itan Chavaria, Gerry Osterkamp,Brian Yingling Etc. Thats exciting hockey to watch and play in. In those tournys players no how to ride a their guy off instead of going for to big kill. Why u ask? Cause it's real hockey and something to play for un like MLRH where you get promised a tv spot on Versus and waht happens it does'nt happen. Bottom line here MLRH does not have the same popularity like Narch/Torhs/AIHL and PIHA.

[DCbullets14]

I think we are looking at this incorrectly. The main issues is not hitting vs no hitting it is simply the type of hitting. Players in the MLRH are throwing viscious hits (they are trying to drop you instead of trying to seperate you from the puck). This is not the correct way to play the game and it leads to the injuries that have occured recently.

When checking is done with the intention of wrecking another player, like you see in MLRH, it leads to poor defense and easy tap in goals. This same situation occured at TORHS this summer and lead to the game winning goal in the pro final.

I enjoyed playing full contact ice hockey but I do not see the need for it in inline hockey (although I am more against the offsides and icing rules than the checking).

I think the entire sport needs to be run more like a NARCh tournament. Professional atmosphere, well planned, intense hockey, super fast paced, with a little bit of creative and innovation. No ice hockey players would view NARCh pro as a joke even without full contact because its players who are talented. They simply do not see that talent level at other venues which leads to that opinion.

[Troho9]

"I think the entire sport needs to be run more like a NARCh tournament. Professional atmosphere, well planned, intense hockey, super fast paced, with a little bit of creative and innovation. No ice hockey players would view NARCh pro as a joke even without full contact because its players who are talented. They simply do not see that talent level at other venues which leads to that opinion."

100% agree.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Brian, I've sent you a PM. FYI.

[Alvare71]

Are you kidding me dave. Sometimes you have good things to say but i disagree with what you say. Try watching or playing in a torhs/narch pro game. that is exciting enough to be apart of playing against players like CJ Yoder,Itan Chavaria, Gerry Osterkamp,Brian Yingling Etc. Thats exciting hockey to watch and play in. In those tournys players no how to ride a their guy off instead of going for to big kill. Why u ask? Cause it's real hockey and something to play for un like MLRH where you get promised a tv spot on Versus and waht happens it does'nt happen. Bottom line here MLRH does not have the same popularity like Narch/Torhs/AIHL and PIHA.

I never said there was no slack in talent, I am talking a about a new fan that knows nothing about our sport.

No contact and just skating around is kinda boring and when it comes to finding a new market.....

Sure we like it is competitive, But we need to realize we are entertainment first!


10 bucks for NON check roller hockey or a movie........


I mean what do we offer other than a t-shirt at a tournament......

We need to step it up thats all.

I have played against all those guys and we didnt fill the seats.....thats just the way it is right now....

You have 5 governing bodies that do not want to commit and merge.........everyone thinks there way is better......

And it is still a business, they want money.

Now we are debating and talking about what we like and should happen..

[njstampede12]

I'll go see a movie before i pay 10 bucks to go see someone get a cheap shot.

[hockeymum]

sorry- changed my mind

[Sinister Soup]

MLRH was founded first, therefore it is a better league/can't be bad. Flawless logic.

I never said it was better, I said it couldn't be that bad ( or as bad as some of the people in this thread are making it out to be). Natural selection says the strong survive... if MLRH has outlasted its competition and still operates today then it must be doing something right.

[yokes]

I never said it was better, I said it couldn't be that bad ( or as bad as some of the people in this thread are making it out to be). Natural selection says the strong survive... if MLRH has outlasted its competition and still operates today then it must be doing something right.

Only the strong survive after a few different layoffs and lower levels of competition throughout the years. I could go to Marple right now and hold a tryout and get 15 house leaguers to play and they would lose something like 20-2, but hey we had a team that showed up right?

[njstampede12]

Snipe yokes

[DCbullets14]

with nearly unlimited funding the weak can also survive.

[Sinister Soup]

Only the strong survive after a few different layoffs and lower levels of competition throughout the years. I could go to Marple right now and hold a tryout and get 15 house leaguers to play and they would lose something like 20-2, but hey we had a team that showed up right?

400 people don't show up to watch house leaguers play hockey

[DblJ44]

Natural selection says the strong survive... if MLRH has outlasted its competition and still operates today then it must be doing something right.

A quote from Bill Raue Owner of MLRH to a rink owner. "Wanna know how to make a small fortune in roller hockey? Take a lagre fortune and invest it in MLRH"

For better or worse the league exists because of Bill and the reach of his arms into his pockets.

[alex]

Natural selection says the strong survive... if MLRH has outlasted its competition and still operates today then it must be doing something right.

Staying in business because you're "doing something right" (i.e. doing just enough to stay afloat) should be viewed entirely separate of staying in business because you offer a quality product. The argument is MLRH is clearly not an example of the latter.

[growl89]

Staying in business because you're "doing something right" (i.e. doing just enough to stay afloat) should be viewed entirely separate of staying in business because you offer a quality product. The argument is MLRH is clearly not an example of the latter.

It's not a matter of doing something right. MLRH will be in business as long as Raue keeps reaching into his pocket.

While it's not the best brand of hockey, A team like the Florida Fusion is bringing in some pretty heavy talent to play. They are my front runners to win the league. Growing up on the Ice, Hitting is a great part of the game, and it's a shame to hear of guys getting hurt, over and over from this league. If the officiating would up to par to handle these types of games, then it would make for a much more enjoyable experience. Shoulder to shoulder battling for a puck is great, elbow, stick, hands to face because you are a newbie to hitting is horrible for the league as well as the guy getting teeth knocked out, for free.

This season will be big for MLRH. If teams start losing guys to ridiculous brawls and cheap shots, they will ultimately walk away and either stop playing, or make a competing league stroinger. With a bunch of new teams Bill has to be careful not to make promises that he can't deliver on, like it has been every season in the past.

Love it or hate it, can't ignore the facts...

[growl89]

400 people don't show up to watch house leaguers play hockey

400? Where did this happen? My guess is SC because they promote better then most in the league. 200 didn't even show for the league finals that was taped for VS.

[lufria55]

Growing up on the Ice, Hitting is a great part of the game, and it's a shame to hear of guys getting hurt, over and over from this league. If the officiating would up to par to handle these types of games, then it would make for a much more enjoyable experience. .

You've hit it on the head.

[Stampede#11]

It is just a case of the friction/wheels do not allow for effective body checking/positioning, the way the ice does.

In a 50/50 race to the puck you cannot really pivot sideways and glide shoulder to shoulder into the hit.

The hit does look clean ... just a big bloke drilling a smaller guy. Whether that hit was MLRH or Ice Hockey, the result would have been the same, so it is not an MLRH thing. That is a contact league and I am sure all the players involved knew that before they step on to the floor.

The issue is most "roller only" people play non-check for long periods, then to suddenly get used to playing checking hockey again, it really does take some getting used to and potentially you can have your head down too much.

When Bill brought the NY Rockers to play in the UK Vs Prague, Bill, Neil H and the team were kind enough to give me a few shifts wth them ... I tried a few hits, but as it had been sooooooo long since I had played contact ... well the results were laughable!!!

It is the responsibility of League Management, GM's and/or Rink owners if they allow certain players in their leagues. If all those players want to do is kill people, then the only way to get rid of those players is for the talented guys to vote with their feet and not play in those leagues. League will then eventually fold .... and lessons will be learnt. Or the league management and GM's makes the decision to put lengthy suspensions in place to deter those kind of players from signing up in the first place.

The issue with that is there is always a "grey" area when it comes to split second decisions and contact (just watch every edition of NHL on the Fly for the past few months with guys getting hurt left, right and centre).

Only way to 99% remove the grey area is non-check roller hockey. And if you say non check is "boring" ... then just don't play roller, play Ice, as non check is 90% of what is available at good competitive standard!?!

My personal opinion for the development of Roller, is not to make it "Ice Hockey on Wheels" ... this has been done before and largely failed over and over again.

I think there needs to be marketing from rink owners on roller being "cheaper" than ice and more like a Ice Hockey/Basketball hybrid ... as that is how the game is played by the best teams IMO.

The teams getting the large fan bases is nothing to do with the hitting ... from previous posts the SC teams ran by Doug Jones got those crowds regardless of the league they played in .. that is due to the marketing and effort from DJ.

[hockeymum]

absolutely agree stampede#11! i have never understood the idea that the only way to "legitimize" RH is to make it ice hockey on wheels. It seems to have the opposite effect- when people who have ice backgrounds with limited exposure to RH, try to use a lateral thinking about the two games, i think they often think "why bother".

imo, RH is at its best when it is allowed to be the fast, fluid, creative 4-4 game with few stoppages. it is a game in its own right that way, with its own unique attributes and strategies. RH folks need to stop worrying about how the ice hockey people view the game. RH instead spend its time promoting its own game, continue to build infrastructure worthy of respect, and develop a good marketing plan. Hey, not having hitting does not appear to have hurt NARCHs growth and imo thats because its built a product that commands respect and promotes RH at its exciting best. As mentioned many times on this board, there are numerous ice guys who play at a very high level who DO appreciate RH at that level and understand that its a different and great game. While I dont have a problem with hitting if thats what guys want to play, i personally do not think the hitting game with the offsides/icing rules truly showcases all that is best about the game of RH, but I suppose thats a personal opinion.

I have also wondered about how leagues with a more ice type of format like this will help the grassroots of RH long term. Youth leagues in RH do not allow checking, and do not have icing and offsides rules. If leagues that do have this format want to be viewed as the top eschelon of the sport, how does it tie itself in to the grass roots movement? It is certainly not practical to bring kids up through traditional RH leagues until the age of 18 when they will be introduced to what is in many ways a different sport.

Again, my intent is not to disrespect MLRH. If there is a market for it and guys want to play thats great. I am just interested in how all of it could potentially fit together to enhance the bigger picture, and future growth, for RH overall. Each of the more prominent adult leagues has its pros and cons, it would be great to eventually see the most successful points of all unified for the best growth AND entertainment.

[TULaw]

While NARCH has succeeded without hitting, its success is only as a tournament which players pay to play in, not as a spectator sport which people pay to watch. MLRH on the other hand is trying to become a league for spectators, people who pay money to watch and be entertained. Yes, I agree with many people on these boards that to draw participants Roller Hockey does not need hitting, the various successful tournaments demonstrate that. But I doubt Roller Hockey can become a sport people pay hard earned money to watch with out hitting.

[hockeymum]

While NARCH has succeeded without hitting, its success is only as a tournament which players pay to play in, not as a spectator sport which people pay to watch. MLRH on the other hand is trying to become a league for spectators, people who pay money to watch and be entertained. Yes, I agree with many people on these boards that to draw participants Roller Hockey does not need hitting, the various successful tournaments demonstrate that. But I doubt Roller Hockey can become a sport people pay hard earned money to watch with out hitting.

you may very well be right. Whether the interest/numbers will ever be there for somehting of some kind on a much larger scale, I dont know. I am optimistic for the future, but we will see.

[Stampede#11]

Sorry to sound like a broken record and to go a bit off topic, but I doubt RH will ever be a great spectator sport.

It is a complete chicken and egg mess that has come about from the rapid growth of the sport in the 90's. That has actually detrimented the game's development longer term.

The only possibility is to hook up with Ice clubs (ECHL level perhaps) and run a pro summer league in their buildings, that is paid (so gives guys an option to earn over the summer) and gives fans/season ticket holders a hockey fix if they want it.

Ready made fan base/summer pay/summer revenue etc. This would have to be an MLRH contact league I believe to feed these fans interest. From that can then spawn a sponsored House League or programme at the local inline facility and get the inclusion of more youngsters. I believe this element is done very well in Anaheim with the Junior Ducks programme.

This not to say RH cannot be a good business, just a different model to ice hockey.

RH has far greater potential for "inclusion" than ice does - lower cost facilites to run, low cost to play, less restrictive on ice time availability etc etc. This should make our sport MORE appealing than ice to many new players. But more kids will want to play Ice as it is "in their face" more than RH.

I know a guy who goes into schools and teaches 5-10 year olds skating and hockey. All the equipment is porvided by him (his busness) for the youngsters. This exposes them on a monthly/weekly basis to inline hockey. It must be a far more viable option for schools to run an inline programme for young kids in a gym, than have to travel to and pay for ice facilities. It is a more long term plan ... but the only way I think is inclusion/accessability.

I believe the sport needs more Bill Raue's as it will take a fair bit of money being lost, before some is actually made. We all know Bill has done this for a long time, and not through lack of trying, but is still not where he would want to be if you'd have asked him ten years ago.

I think RH rink owners need to strengthen ties with Ice teams/junior programmes/schools to make RH the defacto summer training/club option, also sell it to improve players skill levels.

Hopefully ice players then see the benefit of both, continue to play both, numbers grow, rink owners hopefully make more money ... and then may have some funds to support a "pro" team, with the central guidance form Mr Raue or someone with similar experience of running "Pro leagues", who has travelled down the road and knows all the potential pit falls.

Wishful thinking I know .... and sorry for going a little off topic.

[joisyan]

I watched the video and looked as closely as I could at the still frames and in my opinion his elbow is out away from his body. I'm not saying he would've been completely injury free had the guy's elbow been in tight, just that it was definately away from his body.

I've played ice hockey, MLRH, PIHA, AIHL and many tournaments. And you can tell when someone is trying to hurt someone or not. Although it does not look like he was trying to hurt him with the hit, he absolutely lead with the elbow out. He did what every other player who is trying to make "the big play" did, he added that extra 10%.

Instead of letting the higher skill player avoid the hit, he reached out to clip him. THAT is how injuries happen. When something "out of the ordinary" is added. Although I don't know Mike personally, I'm sure he's taken alot of hits in his day and knows the basics on how to avoid or take hits correctly. So for anyone who says "can't stand the heat get out the kitchen" try accomodating for some moron shooting you through a window.

Whether the hit started out clean or not, you don't go for the head, you lower down and hit shoulder to chest. Then any injury would've been a result of whiplash, which I have had plenty of times and never thought wrong of the guys who have plastered me in the past. In fact, most of the times I had my bell rung I told the player later it was a good hit while we were having beers after the game. That hit was not one where I would see my self being honky dorry after the game.

I don't think wrong of the guy who hit him. I appreciate his passion for the game and trying to give fans something to cheer about and bring interest into MLRH and roller hockey in general. Just pick your battles. I've patted my teammates on the back before for holding up from a hit that could've been catastrophic. It's a lesson that should be taught down to the juniors, that you don't have to make the big play all the time. Because they can lead to things like this or even far worse.

[njstampede12]

Tim Great post. Hope all is well with ya and we will see ya in a couple months for the jamboree in Pitt.

[joisyan]

Hope all is well with you too TJ. unfortunately i wont play you for a while cause i'm going active Air Force. try not to scar the new guys on the generals with your girls garments lol

[njstampede12]

Wishing u the best of luck bro.

[Defense1st]

Very good post Tim; and I am am glad you said it was your opinion. Since not very many of you know this person (Todd Orlando) it is hard for you to know what thoughts might have been going through his mind when he figured out the exact point and position to take to make the most out of the impact. As Co-Gm of the Detroit Revolution I was standing 6 feet from the hit and while you can never truely tell EXACTLY the point of impact when it is live, I believe, in my opinion, as a witness first hand, he used his shoulder to impact the upper shoulder and chin of Mike Francis, and not his forearm in-front of a shoulder to "clip" his as you suggested, and as he impacted the body of Mr. Franics his controlled and compacted 6ft 6in, 240 lb solidly muscled body unfurled from a low center of gravity position to a fully extended position. That is clearly what the video when watched frame by frame shows. Yes his forearm from elbow thru fingertips was thrust forward as part of the completion of the act of full extension with a hit from a lower knee bent position into that of a fully extended 6' 6" frame. I don't have to describe the action of a very strong coil spring unfurling and expanding to its fullest for someone such as you who has played in MLRH, PIHA, AIHL, etc. With a very strong and well compact metal spring this can be painful. With a 6'6" 240lb well toned person gliding across a rink and impacting the shoulder and chin of a 5'7" 170 plus lb, much smaller man, who was moving more quickly and turning into the oncoming check the moment of impact can be quite explosive and end up very badly as it did. Every player on our team felt that impact and no one condoned or enjoyed the end results, Todd more than anyone else. Many of us have watched Mike Francis play for year and some have even played with him. Mike is a great guy and a great representative of our game and we all wish him a speedty and successful recovery.

MLRH condones and even encourages big hits as we all know and Todd maybe the biggest hitter of all. But for anyone to think that this young man would purposely impact someone to hurt them (as some very early in this discussion suggested), is very very wrong.

Thank you for serving our country, Tim; stay safe in your Air Force career.


Philip M. Steur
http://ppl.blastoffnetwork.com/philsteur/
GM/Coach-Detroit Revolution, MLRH
www.hometeamsonline.com/DETROITREVOLUTION
www.MLRH.com
GM/Coach:Team Advanced Care
[email protected]
859-321-0892
www.rentacenter.com

[Doug Jones]

400? Where did this happen? My guess is SC because they promote better then most in the league. 200 didn't even show for the league finals that was taped for VS.

Correct we had over 400 people in attendance over both games, not at a single game. It was for the weekend.

The strength of this came from the "wear your jersey promotion" where we had children 12 and under accompanied by a paying adult wear their inline/ice hockey team jerseys and had over 60 kids show up for the weekend in their team jerseys.

We also had success with the Hooter's "Chuck a puck contest" where contestants competed for the prize of dinner for four at Hooter's and we had a winner Saturday night. It also helped that our players did a meet and greet after the game with all the fans in attendance and it was met with great enthusiasm and excitement.

Promotions and reaching out in the community make a big difference.

[skooled]

STAMPEDE, I'm kind of liking the thinking on your post. Even though this was (almost) what the RHI was, I think it could work, but there would have to be room for the Roller guys in each and every team...