Pat Cannone Advances to Frozen Four Championship

[StateWarsDir]

Pat Cannone is not only a key ingredient to the success of the Mission Snipers Pro and Division One teams but he is also a major player on Miami-Ohio University. Yes Cannone and his Miami-Ohio teammates won their semi final game tonight in the Frozen Four semifinals and have advanced to the championship game to be played this Saturday.

Pat Cannone is a great kid from Long Island who has been playing travel roller hockey since he was 10 years old. Pat continues to thrive not only on the wheels but on the ice as well, where he was one of Miami-Ohio's leading scorers this season. Pat is just another example of a kid who has played both ice and roller his entire life and hasn't missed a beat!

Good luck Saturday Pat!

[ianmackie]

That's awesome. I know that numerous "status" updates showed that the roller community was rooting on Pat today and this weekend. I'm sure everyone will be rooting him on in the Championship game.

[RINKRAT]

I was watching an interview with Bobby Ryan the other night. As the analyst would ask questions about his development and the long path he took to get where's he's at today, I eagerly anticipated a mention about his background in inline....NOT!!!! It's almost like once they make it, someone tells them, "OK, now remember, SSHHHHHH...be a good boy and make sure you don't tell anyone that you grew up playing that roller blade hockey, they might laugh at you." I'm sure this is not the case, but sometimes I wonder. These stories about true inline players having such an impact in the ice world are very inspiring but at the sametime, the only ones that give a **** are us (the inline community). The ones that already know about the skill development benefits of inline hockey. I just wish the NHL would step up and frequently, publicly and openly acknowledge this FACT! They need to be more responsible. They owe it to the game! ARRRRGGHHHH......Quite aggravating at times!

OK...I think I'm going to see if I can find a bigger saop box.


RAT

[roy94]

The reason no one at that level (NHL, NCAA) brings up inline is that it did not have as much of an impact on their development as we would like to think. They are two separate sports with differing skills. At an early age, about 14 and under inline might have a pretty profound effect but by the time kids are going to prep school/ high school and beyond inline hockey is just another sport, it’s not impacting their development in ice hockey any more than any other sport. In fact, at that point participating in both is probably diminishing the improvements in both. Think about it, would playing softball improve a MLB players’ ability? Might not hurt it but it is not going to improve it. The implements and speed of play are different. With everything being slightly different, it will probably through off the players’ baseball skills.

That however does not apply to the vast majority of kids/ young adults because, no matter what, the NCAA, OHL, NHL whatever, is not a reality. They havent reached a high enough classification in the sport to begin with. For most of us our ability is so far off the truly elite it’s a joke. Inline may in fact have a positive effect on ice hockey skills with low skilled players; however, with the truly elite players inline isn’t helping. What helps to take an average athlete to being a good athlete is VERY different from what it takes to take an athlete from above average to elite/ world class. The application of training methods are completely different, the answer isn’t just do more of the same. Training needs to be more directed, intense and prolonged. Doing more of the same works very, very rarely…..btw- that’s why so few athletes progress once they get to semi-pro type level. Inline probably helped them develop very early but by the time they were prepping for junior hockey, college or the NHL it didn’t have an impact. They may have played it for fun but it wasn’t making them better ice hockey players at that point.

I know we all like to defend inline hockey and how well it helps build ice hockey skills but the reality is this is a point (inline to elite ice) that physiologically doesn’t hold up. Statistically, just think about how many players are at an inline national championship event and how many go on to have professional or D1 college careers. The fact is, statistically, its fairly low. Probably low enough to be a product of chance statistically. If inline was so influential in ice hockey development NCAA teams would scout inline events heavily, maybe they do and I’m wrong, but I’ve been to quite a few and have never seen a college scout.

Remember, there is a difference between coincidence and correspondence…

*If anyone does know of NCAA teams who are scouting inline events please PM me, I would like to know the school and at what event and if anyone has contacts for any scouts. This would represent a monumental shift in the roller/ ice paradigm and could help with a project I'm working on.

[StateWarsDir]

Roy

I disagree with your comments. Roller hockey is a great tool for many players to enhance certain aspects of their skills which can help them on the ice. You mention Bobby Ryan, I knew Bobby when he was playing 8under roller hockey for the 99ers in New Jersey. He was a stud back then and even at a young age had incredible hands. Bobby played roller hockey his entire life, he wasn't an ice kid who occasionally played roller hockey. He was a roller player first and kept with it his entire life. Could he be the player he was today without roller hockey? Maybe. One will never know but I think roller hockey helped him big time. Roller hockey helps your hands (as you have the puck on your stick more time), it helps your vision and rink awareness (especially playing 4 on 4).

Here's a funny story. I coached a bunch of kids on Long Island who were great roller hockey players who hardly played any ice hockey. A local travel ice coach heard about these kids and asked a parent on his team who knew them to see if they'd be interested in playing ice hockey too as he heard they were all terrific players. They did indeed join the ice team and were almost immediately the top players on this team, even though they didn't have anywhere near the ice experience as the other players. Soon after this head coach (let's call him Mr. Jackass), told all of these same players that he didn't want them playing roller hockey anymore, that it would ruin their game. They just laughed at him, as did I. Incredible right? But unfortunately so typical.

In my experiences, I have seen that those players who have consistently played both roller and ice hockey have been many of the top players I have seen. I don't think many NHL players mention it because unfortunately so many people in the ice hockey world have looked down upon roller hockey that many just would rather not bring it up and have to hear jokes about it. Sad but true. But I do believe as more and more top roller hockey players are making it to the the NHL and other top leagues, this is changing.

Tim McManus

[alex]

There's no ice scouts at roller events because there is a lack of knowledge and respect for the sport. It's not as though ice coaches have looked at roller, considered the possible effects, and come to a reasonable conclusion that it can't help their players. The lack of respect is a gut reaction, a dismissal of a sport for not treating a game like life/death, and a macho reaction towards a game with less physical play. No ice scouts at roller events isn't proof roller doesn't help your ice game.

Softball/baseball is a tempting analogy but doesn't work. How could a baseball player become better playing softball? Hitting a bigger ball being thrown slower? There are actual points that can be made for roller helping your ice game. I can think of no way softball could help you be better at baseball. That's just a matter of thinking of a major sport and a similar version of it. Roller hockey/ice hockey is not softball/baseball nor is it NFL/Arena football.

And statistically, there is not a large percentage of roller-background players in the NHL but it is steadily increasing. More and more enter the league each year and more and more are getting drafted, many many more are hitting the D1 and major junior ranks. Most kids I know start playing hockey by age 8, some sooner; with the explosion of popularity of roller hockey in the 1990's, we're only now hitting the time period in which there are true roller hockey kids coming up. I'm talking about a kid who was growing up in the 1990's, or later, and was introduced to roller hockey at the same time, if not before, ice hockey; the kid who grew up playing the game and is now hitting the elite ice ranks. Now we're actually seeing a generation of kids who knew roller hockey since the youngest ages coming into the D1/major junior/NHL ranks. There's plenty of lists of these players all over the internet, I don't need to name them.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

This is a great thread, because (so far) people are making their arguments and debating WITHOUT any personal attacks or insults. Keep it up!

I think that it's beyond obvious that inline hockey has helped many young players improve their skating and stickhandling skills, and many of them transfer those skills to their ice hockey teams. Many (open-minded) ice hockey coaches have even mentioned this development.

[zipyaj]

I was watching an interview with Bobby Ryan the other night. As the analyst would ask questions about his development and the long path he took to get where's he's at today, I eagerly anticipated a mention about his background in inline....NOT!!!! It's almost like once they make it, someone tells them, "OK, now remember, SSHHHHHH...be a good boy and make sure you don't tell anyone that you grew up playing that roller blade hockey, they might laugh at you." I'm sure this is not the case, but sometimes I wonder. These stories about true inline players having such an impact in the ice world are very inspiring but at the sametime, the only ones that give a **** are us (the inline community). The ones that already know about the skill development benefits of inline hockey. I just wish the NHL would step up and frequently, publicly and openly acknowledge this FACT! They need to be more responsible. They owe it to the game! ARRRRGGHHHH......Quite aggravating at times! OK...I think I'm going to see if I can find a bigger saop box.
RAT

Dear Rat; While the Ducks and Bobby Ryan may not tout his background in roller hockey in every interview, regardless of which coast brags of his origin, they have indeed made him a Poster Boy for Inline Hockey... (from February):

"This is where you build future hockey fans because you get these kids involved and excited about the sport," Pronger said. "Inline is huge because you can play all year long and it’s a great way to get kids into the sport."

Ryan, who grew up playing inline hockey in Southern California, had spent some time in the Corona Rink as a youngster. "This certainly brings back memories," Ryan said. "This is awesome for me because I played here and it’s great to see more rinks being built and to be able to give back to programs like these. It's so important for us to get involved and build the game like this in Southern California."

Read: http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=409172&page=NewsPage&service=page
Video: http://ducks.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?type=fvod&id=33936&catid=651

and Good Luck to Pat Cannone!

Roll on!

[RINKRAT]

Zip:

You're right! Yeah, I remember posting on another thread on IHC about that. I definitely aplaud the efforts of the Ducks Franchise for that! Especially when a guy like Pronger makes those comments...wow! Obviously the Ducks see the value in promoting all forms of the sport if it appeals to the kids and sells more tickets -- great concept! But that's my point, although Anaheim may have figured it out, it just seems like the rest of league is way behind. It's not a league wide campaign. I just wish the "NHL" would make a conscious effort to acknowledge inline as a legit form of hockey along with promoting skill development benefits of inline (to the ice world).


Roy:

You make some valid points for sure and I respect your opinion. However, as Tim briefly touched on, there is no substitute for "time with the puck" when it comes to a players development at any level. A player easily has 4 to 5 more chances to make a pass, receive a pass, get a shot on goal or stickhandle on inline than he does on ice -- so the benefits and advantages to me are quite obvious. Even defensively, many inline teams will often be caught with only 1 d-man to defend a rush, without the help of a partner or the blue line to save his ***! Therefore there's not much of a margin for error. In inline, with all of that open space for the offense to attack, if a d-man's positioning, timing and angles are less than perfect...he's toast! That same player, once he learns to skate, can easily transfer his skills to the ice. The only difference is that instead of taking a perfect angle and cleanly seperating a player off the puck without knocking him down, you have now given that d-man the "OK" to just go through his opponent. There's no doubt in my mind that inline has and will continue to have a huge impact on the ice world with more "roller kids" making some noise in the highest levels of ice.

And one more point, as for the impact that inline has on players that play ice at the prep/high school or junior levels, I don't think that anyone can say whether it does or doesn't have an impact at all because by the time an inline player reaches that level in ice, some ignorant ice hockey coach is forbidding him to play inline anymore or "else".....which is so ironic since it is the inline experience that has allowed him to progress as well as he has on ice up to that point.


Richard:

Good point! Even though internet "food fights" can be quite entertaining at times, it is kinda nice to act like grown ups once in a while...LOL!

RAT

[quick_dry]

I think roy does make some valid points - but I'm also strongly in the 'roller hockey helps' camp.

What it really doesn't help, is with the physical play. The checking side of the ice hockey game is taught early on, and it is harder to develop that knack once you're older.

I play in our national ice hockey league, but because I transitioned late - and never had that training in hitting as a kid - the hitting/checking is a weaker facet to my game. As a D-man in inline you body up, but there isn't the full-on checking, unlike ice.

(that applies to defensive checking, when I'm in a more forward role, hitting during a forecheck is much more straightforward since it just flows on from your angling)

For goalies I think you'd be nuts to think inline didn't help, particularly if you play with a 6x4 goal, you have to get your technique bang on because you can't slide as well, the puck moves a zillion times faster, and you're facing a zillion more shots)

cliff notes: roller hockey doesn't hurt your game, it helps skills - but it certainly leaves holes that can be detrimental later in your hockey career if you also play ice.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Steven,

You bring up some interesting points... especially about checking -- which reminds me about how the Anaheim Bullfrogs loaded up with ice hockey players back in 1993 and won the inaugural Roller Hockey International championship. Anaheim coaches Chris McSorley and Grant Sonier felt that it would be easier to teach ice hockey players to inline skate than to teach roller hockey players "hockey sense" and how to give and take a check.

However, I think the argument here is that inline hockey helps many players who move on to ice hockey with their skating, stickhandling and one-on-one play. I don't think anyone on this site is arguing that inline hockey players are going to run rings around ice hockey players in the checking game. Unless I missed something... which is highly possible. ;)

[RichardGraham]

Hey Rat,

Bleep u. :D

[StateWarsDir]

Steven

No one is saying that roller hockey "makes" an ice hockey player or that roller hockey advances every aspect of a players game. Obviously being a non check sport traditionally, roller hockey is not going to improve a players skill of checking.

My point was simply that roller hockey can help enhance many skills that can help a players ice hockey game. Ask yourself this, if you had a player who was not the greatest skater, just knew his positioning and was a physical presence...would that player be easier to hide in a 5 on 5 travel bantam ice hockey or in a 4 on 4 platinum/aaa level travel roller hockey game? I think the answer is clearly that you could hide this player in a traditional ice hockey game with offsides. In 4 on 4 hockey, ALL players need to be very good skaters, good puck handlers and see the rink well..or else they will be exposed very quickly by a good team.

Bottom line is playing both roller and ice hockey is a great thing for all players and having th best of both worlds is a great way to enhance all of your skills. Some skills will develop more quickly on the ice and some will advance more from time on your wheels. The list of roller hockey players making it to the "big time" is just an easy reference for all young players and parents to show your coaches if they try to tell you otherwise. Remember most times when an ice coach or ice rink operator tries to convince you that "roller hockey is bad for your game", there is a hidden motive..."money".

Good luck to all players playing all kinds of HOCKEY...

[quick_dry]

I guess my post would actually be off-topic - it wasn't really addressing the topic at hand, just some thoughts I had.

I think modern roller hockey increases players' versatility. Ice hockey (particularly when run in a North American style) tends to be very rigid in its sense of positional play "you are a Winger, you go here and here, never there. You are a D, you go there, ther, but never here". Whereas in inline you might have your own favourite spot, but positioning often just dictates where you stand at the centre face-off, and after that the D might find himself screening the goalie and going for a tip-in because thats how the play developed. (When I've had a czech coach and czech imports, it is very free-wheeling and much more like 5 on 5 contact roller hockey - and much more enjoyable).

I encourage any of the kids I coach at ice to come and try inline, it builds the sport and introduces them to new skills.

[RINKRAT]

Hey Rat,

Bleep u. :D

Hey, WTB? :D

Steven, your points are well taken about positioning. A free-flowing game in my opinion, IS much more enjoyable to play and watch. The more rigid North American Style (as you call it) limits a players creativity and often creates a boring dump (give up puck posession) and chase (now go get it back so we can dump it back in again) style game. I know certain players are better suited for specific situations (offensively or defensively) on the rink, but I like the idea of everyone being able to jump in on the play at any time if that's what the circumstances dictate. Everytime I watch old clips of Bobby Orr, I see roller hockey. He wouldn't be considered a "true" ice hockey d-man in todays terms, but as often as he had the puck on his stick, the other teams chances of scoring were limited -- much like inline. And then there's that Gretzky fella. Can you imagine having either or both of these guys in their prime on your roller hockey team?


RAT