Rha ii

[SlammHockey]

Okay Richard ...Thanks for the idea to start a thread of RHA II. I am taking the bait that you laid out there for us.

I am attempting to find some clarity in the conflicting articles that have been posted. On the front page of the IHC site it mentions that the RHA is a non-profit organization, but when I go to the Roller Hockey Alliance site it has no mention of being a non-profit organization. I would imagine that a number of people got this information re: the Roller Hockey Alliance from IHC and would assume that it is a non-profit without asking the question of: Is the Roller Hockey Alliance currently structed as a non-profit organization and have they been approved by the IRS as a 501(c)3 organization? Maybe this is why they don't have it up on their site????

Also, there is mention on their site that you can sign up to become a member, but there are no benefits listed of why to become a member. Is it to be able to play in these events, or are there going to be other benefits that go along with it?

When I signed up to become a member this waiver (See Below) is the one that I had to agree to in order to become a member and it is a pretty standard legalese waiver saying that you don't hold RHA responsible for anything.



FROM THE RHA WEBSITE
"It is the purpose of this agreement to exempt, waive and relieve releasees from liability for personal injury, property damage, and wrongful death, including if caused by negligence, including the negligence, if any, of releasees. "Releasees" include ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE, Inc. (referred to also as RHA) and their respective affiliate associations, local associations, sanctioned league, sanctioned tournament and their organizers, member teams, event hosts, other participants, coaches, officials, sponsors, advertisers, and each of them, their officers, directors, agents and employees.
For and in consideration of the undersigned participant's registration with ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE, Inc. and, its affiliates, local associations and member teams, sanctioned leagues and tournaments and their organizers, and being allowed to participate in RHA events and member team and sanctioned league / sanctioned tournament activities, participant (and the parent(s) or league guardian(s) of participant, if applicable) waive, release and relinquish any and all claims for liability and cause(s) of action, including for personal injury, property damage or wrongful death occurring to participant, arising out of participation in RHA events, member team and sanctioned league / sanctioned team activities, the sport of inline hockey, and/or activities incidental thereto, whenever or however they occur and for such a period said activities may continue, and by this agreement any such claims, rights and causes of action that participant (and participant's parent(s) or legal guardian(s), if applicable) may have are hereby waived, released and relinquished, and participant (and parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) does(do) so on behalf of my/our and participant's heirs, executors, administrators and assigns. Participant (and participant's parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) acknowledge, understand and assume all risks relating to inline hockey and any member team activities, and understand that inline hockey and member team activities involve risks to participant's person including bodily injury, partial or total disability paralysis and death, and damages which may arise there from and that I/we have full knowledge of said risks. These risks and dangers may be caused by the negligence of the participant or the negligence of others, including 'releasees' identified below. These risks and dangers include, but are not limited to, those arising from participating with bigger, faster and stronger participants, and these risks and dangers will increase if participant participates in inline hockey and member team activities in an age group above that which participant would normally participate in. I/We further acknowledge that there may be risks and dangers not known to us or not reasonably foreseeable at this time. Participant (and participant's parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) acknowledge, understand and agree that all of the risks and dangers described throughout this agreement, including those caused by negligence of participant and/or others, are included within the waiver, release and relinquishment described in the proceeding paragraph. I/We agree to abide by and be bound under the rules of ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE, including the By-Laws of the corporation and the arbitration clause provisions, as currently published. Copies are available to ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE members upon written request. Participant (and participant's parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) acknowledge, understand and assume the risks, if any, arising from the conditions and use of inline hockey rinks and their surfaces and related premises and acknowledge and understand that included within the scope of this waiver and release in any cause of action (including any cause of action based on negligence) arising from the performance, or failure to perform, maintenance, inspection, supervision or control of said areas and for the failure to warn of dangerous conditions existing at said rinks, for negligent selection of certain releasees, or negligent supervision or instruction by releasees. If the law in any controlling jurisdiction renders any part of this agreement unenforceable, the remainder of this agreement shall nevertheless remain enforceable to the full extent, if any, allowed by controlling law. This agreement affects your legal rights, and you may wish to consult an attorney concerning this agreement. Participant (and participant's parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) agree if any claim for participant's personal injury or wrongful death is commenced against releasees, he/she shall defend, indemnify and save harmless releasees from any and all claims or causes of action by whomever or wherever made or presented for participant's personal injuries, property damage or wrongful death. Participant (and participant's parent(s)/guardian(s), if applicable) acknowledge that they have been provided and have read the above paragraphs and have not relied upon any representations of releasees, that they are fully advised of the potential dangers of inline hockey and understand these waivers and releases are necessary to allow amateur inline hockey to exist in its present form. Significant exclusions may apply to ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE's insurance policies, which could affect any coverage. For example, there is no liability coverage for claims of one player against another player. If you have any questions, contact ROLLER HOCKEY ALLIANCE."


If anyone could help, please let me know.

SlammHockey (http://www.slammhockey.com)

***Our site (http://www.slammhockey.com)has finally been updated after a couple of weeks of holiday vacation***

[MBurke]

It takes a while to get 501(c)3 approval, but status as a not-for-profit would be declared at the time of incorporation.

[StateWarsDir]

Slamm

Allow me to answer some of your concerns. Yes RHA is a non profit 501(c)3, I am not sure why the same wording listed on the IHC press release isn't listed on our website, I will make sure that is corrected tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up.

To be honest we had to make sure we got this website and the membership registration up for the first of the year as their are events starting very soon. The NARCh Winter Nationals in San Jose is coming up very quickly so we needed to have it set up for the 110 plus teams that will be playing in that event. So we apologize if everything isn't perfect yet on the site, it is a work in progress as we finalize things on it.

As far as the membership and the waiver you listed. Yes when you purchase the RHA membership you get a secondary insurance that covers you for the RHA sanctioned events, these events include all NARCh, State Wars, and TORHS tournaments for starters. That is the direct benefit to purchasing the RHA membership for an individual, quite frankly it is required to play in any of these events, as it is a requirement of the facilities as well for any event holder to have their event sanctioned by an insurance carrier.

We will get more detailed information out about the other benefits and goals of RHA. Again please be patient with us as we are just getting warmed up...

[StateWarsDir]

Old Timer

I don't know what's worse that I am up at 230am to reply to someones question or that you are up to still find something critical to say about every little thing said. I never said we didn't have a business plan or benefits planned out, I said allow us to get all of that info out to you.

Bottom line is this, in order to play in ANY tournament you need insurance, correct? If you play in Junior Olympics or in an AAU regional you need AAU insurance to participate. If you play in a NARCh, State Wars, or TORHS tournament in 2009 you need the RHA insurance to participate. That's how it goes. We are required by all rinks we book tournaments at to have insurance. In the past NARCh and State Wars have used USAHIL insurance and TORHS had used AAU insurance. This year it is RHA.

I'm not going to sit here and ask you give me your theory on what the benefits of the AAU or USAHIL memberships are either. The simple fact is that MOST individuals sole purpose for buying the membership is to have the mandatory secondary insurance required to play at that rink or in that tourney.

Things like referee certification, coaching certification, weekly conference calls, having an RHA staff member who is available weekly to aid in all areas of the growth and education of the sport, helping rinks get new players into their leagues, roller hockey videos created for rink marketing, helping rinks get equipment that new young players can borrow, possibility of an ALL roller hockey publication, unification of the majority of national events working together so not to overlap dates, and more... These are just some of the benefits of being associated with RHA.

Obviously I cannot write out everything. If you want more specific info do something old fashioned, pick up the phone and ask a question.

[Mtour71]

Old Timer..it's simple. Don't play in some of the best events in 2009 if you dont want to pay $30 dollars. Most people play in all three (Torhs, NARCh, State Wars) of those events. So if you just play the summer tournaments thats $10 a tournament, If you play in all of the Winter events. Man, two NARCh, two State Wars. That could be seven events. Plus Torhs regionals, NARCh regionals, and State Wars tryouts. Man thats a savior. It covers a lot!

[Superstar9]

That's what I was thinking, it's going to save you money not cost you more. In the past you had to buy AAU and USAHIL, now you can just buy RHA and you're good. If you're concerned about having to buy RHA "before you have all the details", just don't play in the early events.

One thing I didn't find on the site when it launched was a spot for signing up a facility for league sanctioning. Now I'm not complaining there at all, I sent an email about it and CJ Yoder has gotten back to me twice already. Add that to having Daryn & Tim on here addressing questions and I'd say they're being pretty damn responsive. Give it some time.

Oh yea, Tim....is the rink directory for sanctioned rinks only or is it more an informational page for players looking for rinks? I'd like to get my rink added to it, let me know. Thanks

[Drexel63]

That's what I was thinking, it's going to save you money not cost you more. In the past you had to buy AAU and USAHIL, now you can just buy RHA and you're good.

...If you haven't already purchased one or the other for one league or another, such as players from AIHL, NCRHA, and PIHA already have... but I'm splitting hairs here, considering for those players, it will cost $30 more now to be fully covered for the big three tournaments, and their leagues, and come the fall of 2009 and every fall following, it will save you $30... all that assuming everything goes as planned and is as successful, as RHA hopes...

Also, please don't read anything other than my words there... I like to use the "..." a little too much, and I still haven't formed a full opinion...

[AJ Barnett]

The one thing that has popped out at me is the issue of the extra $30 issue that everyone is complaining about, well not everyone. My point is, I play inline and ice hockey. Inline hockey is for sure cheaper. Tournament fees are less, league fees are less, equipment costs less...you get the picture. But what I'm saying is, an extra $30 a year isn't much. I pay $30 a training session (non team training, mainly off season). Clinics and such are not cheap, because ice time is not cheap, but it is necessary to improve your game and become a better player. I hear people in inline hockey complaining about a $400 tournament fee....I would love to pay $400 for a tournament (not myself personally, but of course players split the $400)! In ice hockey, for one weekend of play (4 game min at most tournaments) you are looking at around $1,200 a tournament per team (the cheapest we played last year was $950, for 3 games, well 5 after we won). But my point is, $30 extra dollars is nothing really. I would be prepared to pay it in a heartbeat, it would just require that I step out of one extra training session.

[billybob]

Hey Daryn, What ever happen to that Roller Hockey Today magazine?

When will RHA post their Bylaws? I think they have to do that correct? Also will members have voting rights in RHA? Who will vote to decide who the board of directors are? what about disclosure of finances? does that need to be available to the public? Lots of questions, maybe AAU can help me with those questions, I'm sure they have experienced people to answer them, what about RHA?

Just asking legit questions.


Billy

[Berry_Bramble]

Hey Daryn, What ever happen to that Roller Hockey Today magazine?

When will RHA post their Bylaws? I think they have to do that correct? Also will members have voting rights in RHA? Who will vote to decide who the board of directors are? what about disclosure of finances? does that need to be available to the public? Lots of questions, maybe AAU can help me with those questions, I'm sure they have experienced people to answer them, what about RHA?

Just asking legit questions.


Billy

http://www.rowclan.net/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_stirpot.gif

Nope, I do not believe they have qualified people. Thankfully our sport is blessed with the BillyBob's of the world to point this out for us.

[Daryn G - NARCh]

JonRbob,

I’m glad you bring this all up!

First, Roller Hockey Magazine only lasted 2 issues. 2 more issues than anyone else has ever tried to accomplish. Most people would talk about doing it and never get it off the ground. It too was an effort from Tim McManus and myself to help the sport. We funded it and lost money on it. Our goal was to make it a break even with sponsorship support but help the sport. It was not only covering NARCh or Statewars, but included others in the sport like PIHA, NAYRHL, private rinks, etc that we did not benefit from in any way.

However if you would like to pick up a magazine, NARCh Player will be coming out with our 23rd issue this summer! Again, something that I don’t have to do, but I do to brand NARCh as well as the sport. I can’t tell you how many kids that play ice hockey give roller hockey a chance because they look at the magazine and see that it’s cool. I will even send your rink a box for free and pay the $50 bucks or so that it cost me in shipping, just as I have so many others across the country.

Regarding disclosing finances, I don’t think that will be an issue since we have nothing to hide. Once they’re available, help yourself! What’s so funny in all of this is that the people that are pointing the fingers need to point them back at themselves. Half of the non-profit world is a joke, which is the only reason that I give people a little slack with all these questions. Many are a scam.

Let’s take one example. At each AAU Event the participants get a T-shirt. Now that T shirt probably cost 4 bucks to produce. Do you think for a second that the shirt is on the (non-profit) books at a cost of 4 bucks? Someone along the line is getting greased, which is why you get a free shirt! So if they are justifying it that the cost of the shirt is $20 on the books, where do you think that difference is going?

To take it a step further, I believe you have to be in the state and go to the county clerk (or something like that) to retain the books. I could be wrong, and probably am, but if someone can enlighten me on how to retain non-profit records that would be helpful! I will pay anyone who wants to put in the time $500 for giving us the information on the finances for either AAU or USAHIL. That’s $500 each. I don’t have the time to do it myself, and don’t live in those states, but the information would certainly be helpful to us all. Billybob, can you do that for me?

In closing, I have nothing to hide as I’ve stated all along and only want to see the sport get better. NARCh is doing just fine, and I really should get back to working on my 124 team tournament that’s taking place next weekend. I just want to see more out of the sport and I’m willing to put the extra effort to see good things happen.

[growl89]

wow, i'm usually on the oposing side of everything... but this really seems like it cant miss

CERTIFIED COACHES AND OFFICIALS!

this is what this sport needs. this is how players get better.

this is what USA hockey does with ice hockey and it's exactly what needs to be done for roller hockey. and what is 30 bucks when it covers everything?

and as far as the people arguing whether it is non-profit or not, who cares?

in the long run it will save us players and coaches money and bring the sport together. Not to mention now it makes USAH and AAU look at what they are offering in comparison. Which does not match right now.

this was a long time coming.

[PGHhockey]

I decided that it's not worth letting my thoughts be known.

[Berry_Bramble]

I decided that it's not worth letting my thoughts be known.

It is ok...I read it and it was spectacular. Seriously it was a good post, you should of left it up...just saying.

[STEMM]

WHAT ? AAU gives out free t-shirt's ??? I've never seen this. Yo, AAU where are the shirts my team never received ?:D

[billybob]

Daryn, Thanks for changing my name, you should check your sources. Didn't say you have anything to hide, just asked questions.

Will do I can use the $500.

Billy

[Hockeydevil29]

Stemm below is the link and the wording listed on the AAU website about every player receiving a FREE tshirt at their Winter tournaments in the east and west. They normally promote the same for their JO summer tournament. If you haven't received it contact AAU or maybe even Billybob will ride his horse and buggy over and bring you one.

www aauhockeytournaments.org/2009WinterNationals/eastcoast. htm

Questions or for more information please email us at [email protected] or call us at 216-857-6318

All Players Will Receive A Free AAU T-Shirt
Entry Deadline Is December 27th

[trsportscenter2]

When you go on the Roller Hockey Alliance website and you click certification. I wonder who that stunning coach is that is leading his team to victory is ........:D

[STEMM]

Hockeydevil29 Thank You for the information. I've only been part of AAU tournaments at a regional level in St. Louis, so I guess thats why I had to buy the t-shirts for my son... 2 regionals last year = 2 t-shirts, 30 dollars spent = no big deal

[Berry_Bramble]

When you go on the Roller Hockey Alliance website and you click certification. I wonder who that stunning coach is that is leading his team to victory is ........:D

You are welcome! :cool:


I can verify that we did indeed get t-shirts over the summer and and the winter tournament. A NARCh supporter and attending an AAU tournament..what is this world coming to. :rolleyes:

[quick_dry]

wow, i'm usually on the oposing side of everything... but this really seems like it cant miss

CERTIFIED COACHES AND OFFICIALS!

this is what this sport needs. this is how players get better.

this is what USA hockey does with ice hockey and it's exactly what needs to be done for roller hockey. and what is 30 bucks when it covers everything?

and as far as the people arguing whether it is non-profit or not, who cares?

in the long run it will save us players and coaches money and bring the sport together. Not to mention now it makes USAH and AAU look at what they are offering in comparison. Which does not match right now.

this was a long time coming.
I've typed, retyped, deleted so many long responses to this thread, but this point about consistently trained and certified officials I definitely agree with.

Though USA Hockey runs the coaching clinics, and puts its own spin on things - the curriculum is set by IIHF, so everyone in the world gets roughly the same education (and when you do the level 3,4,+ levels you DO get teachers from around the world). So I can take my ice hockey coaching cert from Australia and go coach in USA, Canada, Kazakhstan and it is officially recognised everywhere.

I think it is great that you guys have the possibility of a single insurance fee that will work at different tournaments. (Though even better would be a single body controlling hockey, and they just sanction events - though without the ridiculous fees that FIRS imposes)

At the moment we don't have the luxury of a single federation controlling inline hockey, so what does a RHA cert for coaching/officiating get you (and how would the officiating cert work, would it be a broad 'philosophy' type course, or different tracks for the different rule sets that each governing body uses?).

If RHA give me a cert, is there a process for having that recognised with USAHIL (and thus IIHF inline), or USARS/AAU (and thus FIRS)?

Daryn / State Wars: what if any impact are you expecting RHA to make on inline hockey outside of the local North American hockey stage? Do you think RHA could serve an even greater good than saving a few bucks on insurance by throwing its weight at one governing body or another and effectively force/move us towards a situation where we have one worldwide governing body for inline hockey (i.e. the way ice hockey has IIHF)?

Lastly - as much as people lambast ACCCT2 for his "we're not releasing info till we're ready" stance, consider that not taking that approach of waiting till all your ducks are in a row before you release is why so many of these questions are coming up.

[ACCCT2]

I've typed, retyped, deleted so many long responses to this thread, but this point about consistently trained and certified officials I definitely agree with.

Though USA Hockey runs the coaching clinics, and puts its own spin on things - the curriculum is set by IIHF, so everyone in the world gets roughly the same education (and when you do the level 3,4,+ levels you DO get teachers from around the world). So I can take my ice hockey coaching cert from Australia and go coach in USA, Canada, Kazakhstan and it is officially recognised everywhere.

I think it is great that you guys have the possibility of a single insurance fee that will work at different tournaments. (Though even better would be a single body controlling hockey, and they just sanction events - though without the ridiculous fees that FIRS imposes)

At the moment we don't have the luxury of a single federation controlling inline hockey, so what does a RHA cert for coaching/officiating get you (and how would the officiating cert work, would it be a broad 'philosophy' type course, or different tracks for the different rule sets that each governing body uses?).

If RHA give me a cert, is there a process for having that recognised with USAHIL (and thus IIHF inline), or USARS/AAU (and thus FIRS)?

Daryn / State Wars: what if any impact are you expecting RHA to make on inline hockey outside of the local North American hockey stage? Do you think RHA could serve an even greater good than saving a few bucks on insurance by throwing its weight at one governing body or another and effectively force/move us towards a situation where we have one worldwide governing body for inline hockey (i.e. the way ice hockey has IIHF)?

Lastly - as much as people lambast ACCCT2 for his "we're not releasing info till we're ready" stance, consider that not taking that approach of waiting till all your ducks are in a row before you release is why so many of these questions are coming up.

Steven -- I hope I don't make you a marked man or target by agreeing with you, but your post is right on in bringing up even more valid and important points and questions.

For everyone else -- just before Richard 'locked-off' the first "Roller Hockey Alliance" thread I was tempted and just about ready to take "Berry_Bramble" up on his "What is the best direction for our sport in the eyes of ACCCT2?" challenge -- but just as I was about to 'virtually' commit fingers-to-keyboard in outlining some of my own more closely-held opinions/suggestions/ideas (for everyone to further question, analyze, dissect and rip apart as we do 'virtually' everything here), well, it was at that exact moment that Richard closed-down the thread -- I took it as a serindipidous sign to "keep it to myself" and that my "stealthy" approach to doing things is probably the best way for me to proceed with my plans, events, ideas and initiatives.

Honestly, I think a lot of people here think that in my genuinely serious and intelligent and logical need to "kick the tires" of whatever I'm being 'sold', that somehow this is construed or read that I (always?) take a "negative" or "contrary" view of things. Some people have suggested that "due diligence" over "thirty freakin dollars" or key "mandatory" and "certification" and "control" issues is somehow petty. But multiply "thirty freakin dollars" and the as yet unknown/unstated "mandatory/certification" fees by the (hopefully?) tens of thousands of players and teams and coaches and leagues that RHA is obviously hoping to sign-up and 'reign' over and you're then talking about hundreds of thousands and eventually maybe even millions of hard-earned "freakin dollars" (every year) being "mandatorily" handed over to RHA without any legally outlined and defined accountability, transparancy or democratically-decided way of researching, bidding, approving and/or rejecting such "mandatory/certification" fees or "controls" over our game -- an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS foregoing of players rights, principles, perogatives and/or alternative options (legal or otherwise) in their utter desperation to "save" and/or "grow" the sport at whatever cost.

Quite frankly, the thoroughly unprofessional and UN-reassuring tactic of ripping, defaming and derisively deriding any kind of sensibly curious inquiry or intelligently contrary comment or opinion (on such an important issue at such a critically important time) seems to be RHA's ONLY reply -- which, in my mind lights-up an even bigger and brighter and louder "WARNING. WARNING. BE CAREFUL, WILL ROBINSON" kind of reaction -- kinda' like "WOAAAH, what are they so incredibly afraid of here -- I'm just asking legitimate and sensibly logical questions here?" -- if the RHA is really doing this "out of the goodness of (their) hearts", then being the tough, experienced, accomplished and successful businessmen that they all appear to be, I'm sorry, but they should be able to fully answer and assuage 'virtually' any of the legitimate questions, doubts and/or fears being presented them in a thoroughly open, honest and forthcoming way -- something they have obviously NOT done in most of their replies. Frankly, it's been a kind of arrogantly postured "You don't appreciate what we're so generously doing for you, so screw you" kind of attitude in most of their replies to the tougher questions, inquiries or observations. Definitely NOT the best way to engender or inspire "trust" or "faith" in their endeavor and approach.

Y'know, believe it or not, knowing how much most of these RHA guys seemingly love and most probably enjoy being able to make their livings off of the game, honestly, I'd probably even like and enjoy most (if not all) of them on a personal and maybe even professional basis (as they might even me, believe it or not), and I certainly acknowledge and appreciate what they've all done on a professional level within our sport. But I'm absolutely not going to suspend my own "due diligence", "reason" and "good sense" simply because they say (however sincerely they might mean it) "trust us, we know what we're doing" -- sorry, but that's just too much of a leap of faith to ask of our players, venues and vendors after everything we're been asked to "trust" or have "faith" in over way too many years in this game.

So ultimately, until RHA is more legally open, honest, inclusive and forthcoming in their answers and justifications, unfortunately, I'm gonna' have to once again reference an IHC PM I received a couple of days ago on this subject: "Like the other guy said, a nonprofit run by a bunch of for-profits always smells fishy. This will be the same." -- unless everything is FULLY outlined and presented for our collective "kicking the tires" and democratically-decided approval of what we're being asked to collectively "trust" and literally buy into, in my mind, all this very unfortunately reeks of being VERY "fishy" and "fowl" if you ask me.

[Berry_Bramble]

Nothing wrong with kicking the tires.

I just feel honored that you mentioned me in a post. My hockey career has come full circle.

I think we all need to wait and see what they do before jumping to anymore conclusions.

[Daryn G - NARCh]

Steven,

These are all great questions!

Let me address the ice hockey training question first. I too had to get certified to coach ice hockey. It was a bantam and midget Tier program, so I believe it was level 3 when all was said and done…maybe 4. Basically on the highest one, I sat through a symposium for 4 days in Reno Nevada in 2001. The focus was, “How to develop more SKILL in US Players.” Don’t quote me exactly, but that was the just of it since Europeans are flooding into North American Leagues and dominating International play. One of the speakers was the assistant coach of Colorado College. Seemed like a great guy. What was insulting though is that I had to sit through 30 hours of this and not once did roller hockey come up in the presentation. Plyometrics, using stick handling balls, parachutes to the back, all kinds of silly stuff was discussed, but not roller hockey. The kicker was the fact that Colorado College has heavily recruited roller hockey players from California at that time, and still are.

When I brought this up to USA Hockey and USA Hockey Inline they discounted it and said that more would be done to educate people in the ice world that inline hockey is not only a powerful trainer tool, but a pretty cool sport in it’s own right. Fast forward to present day, nothing ever got done and no big efforts were made. The portion of the ice world that figured out roller hockey was good for them did so through talking to other parents that had kids that played both, not the coaches or anyone at USA Hockey. There are always exceptions, but most ice coaches frown upon roller hockey and many despise it.

The problem with the USAHIL coaches education system now is that they expect you to go get educated at an ice seminar, but I can guarantee you that there’s no time dedicated to the sport of inline hockey, as I’ve described above. So what does that do for our sport besides make coaches that attend feel uncomfortable and embarrassed if they’re actually there for roller hockey. Not that they can't take something home from the ice education, but is that really helping our sport? I would love to hear from any roller hockey coach out there that doesn't coach ice that has attended one of these, please chime in!

RHA does not have a coaching curriculum in place yet and it will probably honestly take us a few months to do so. When we do though it will encompass all of our knowledge of roller hockey combined with a few teaching methods from the ice side to put something together that is very worthwhile and informative for all that attend. My guess is that USAHIL and USARS might even try to tie into what we create.

Regarding your question about ties outside of the US, NIHA (Canada) is 100% on board with our movement. For those of you unfamiliar with NIHA, feel free to look them up and what they’re accomplishing to the North. They fight many of the same battles that we face here. I won’t speak for them, but I’m guessing one of them will be happy to come on here and speak for themselves.

Almost every country has the same struggle of the old school roller skate guys (FIRS) and the ice hockey know-it-alls (IIHF). Neither group sees eye to eye in any country that I’m aware of, but I could be wrong since it hasn’t been my focus to stay on top of this.

And what do you know……this all circles back to the need for a group like the RHA, which in part is trying to bring things together. In may appear as a case of further fragmentation, but after it all plays out, it could be a case of taking one step backwards to take two forwards. We’ll lead by example and try to focus on some positive things to grow the sport and bring groups together. Just today people within our group had long conversations with both people at USARS and USAHIL. It wasn't me though.

Touching on your very last comment about releasing information, here’s how it’s gone down. In September we started with our talks with USAHIL for change. True meaningful stuff to be done for the sport or we were going to do it ourselves. Par for the course, stuff was discussed vaguely and no action was taken. Not to mention that at the same time they let the face of inline hockey go, Gary D, with no replacement in site. RHA was created and we wanted to be an extension of USAHIL in a sense, sort of do the dirty work that they’ve been ignoring. Shortly after, a meeting was scheduled with USARS to sit down with them and discuss a potential relationship and how we might tie it all together. The creation of RHA was inevitable with our without either groups support, but our hopes were to work together. We gave ourselves the drop dead date of January 1st, otherwise we were going to fund RHA ourselves and provide our own coverage. I have over 1,000 people playing in a tournament in two weeks, and then all of our seasons are off and running, so action had to take place. We also believe that Jan-Dec coverage makes the most sense.

So we could have turned our backs on both USAHL and USARS in September and we would be more organized right now, but in the best effort for unity in the sport we tried to work together and it’s put us a little behind on some of the details that might have otherwise been shared if partnerships were in place.

USAHIL may say that budgets were in place, things need to get approved by higher boards(ice guys), so on and so forth. The bottom line is that I for one have finally come to the conclusion that outside of the funding it brings in, the majority of people at USA Hockey do not care about roller hockey, or even USA Hockey Inline. They may not say that publicly, but I think they’re actions speak crystal clear. I hope they can turn things around and prove me wrong, because USA Hockey could sure make a difference if they wanted to. I feel very bad for people like Gary, Jeremy, Stephanie, and the volunteers and supporters that do try to make a difference. Unfortunately for them, I think their hands are pretty tied in many matters that would help our sport. I could give you tons of examples, but I've rambled enough.

Switching gears, ACCCT2 is like that loud, obnoxious, dad at the rink banging on the glass. He’s never played, never coached, and does nothing but scream at his kid, the coach, the refs, and the opposing team. He’s annoying to all, his son is embarrassed, and he even turns some off to the sport all together. Great job ACCCT2, you difference maker you. Is all this hard work on the message board included in that million dollar sponsorship proposal?

I probably lost half of you half way through, but for those that wanted further clarification I hope I gave it to you.

[InlineMBA]

Jeez ACCCT2, where were you, back in the day, when I had to pay an admission fee to see my son play in a USARS Regional in Deptford, NJ?

Now a days, I don't mind one bit, paying an admission fee to see my son play at the NCRHA Nationals. Not once did I stop and worry about who was doing what with my money.

ACCCT2, please - get a grip.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[ACCCT2]

Switching gears, ACCCT2 is like that loud, obnoxious, dad at the rink banging on the glass. He’s never played, never coached, and does nothing but scream at his kid, the coach, the refs, and the opposing team. He’s annoying to all, his son is embarrassed, and he even turns some off to the sport all together. Great job ACCCT2, you difference maker you. Is all this hard work on the message board included in that million dollar sponsorship proposal?

I have played the game, have coached, don't have kids, don't bang on the glass, do appreciate & respect the refs (if not all the opposing coaches or teams) and GEE -- do have the (collective) "million dollar" sponsorship commitments to do my own thing my own (apparently?) "annoying" way. And honestly, if there's anything "obnoxious" about me, well, that's most probably the 30-year ad-guy in me coming through!;)

And just to show no ill will intended (however thin and sensitive your skin clearly appears to be), as the Auzzies say: "Good'on'ya!"

[MBurke]

I have played the game, have coached, don't have kids, don't bang on the glass, do appreciate & respect the refs (if not all the opposing coaches or teams) and GEE -- do have the (collective) "million dollar" sponsorship commitments to do my own thing my own (apparently?) "annoying" way. And honestly, if there's anything "obnoxious" about me, well, that's most probably the 30-year ad-guy in me coming through!;)

And just to show no ill will intended (however thin and sensitive your skin clearly appears to be), as the Auzzies say: "Good'on'ya!"

Just drop the italics, quotes and parentheses for a few posts and I promise, people will like you a whole lot better! :o

[quick_dry]

haha, thanks, ACCT2 - I'm screwed now ;)

I don't mind these guys being incentivised outside of any altruistic desire to help the sport by the payoff that increased participation in roller holler hockey makes more sales, or tournaments team fees, etc.

Unless there is going to be ridiculous moneys given as comepnsation for time,(or the RHA always seems to use other businesses its board have a financial interest in) in order for there to be any meaningful payoff to NARCh, State Wars, etc - you need a BIG increase in the player numbers.

I also don't understand the 'so just call us' statements, not when everyone is discussing it here - including the people from the organisation we'd be calling. A private phone call would do nothing but introduce possible misunderstandings and transcription errors if someone were to call and relay what they had been told.

EDIT: thanks for the reply Daryn, I only saw it after i posted here and the screen refreshed - I'm reading through now. thanks for the lengthy reply.

EDIT2: haha, regarding FIRS and the ice people, yes - agreed, that is our experience here, I've already posted a few times in other threads on us being "FIRS cash cow and ice hockey's red-headed stepchild".

[ACCCT2]

Just drop the italics, quotes and parentheses for a few posts and I promise, people will like you a whole lot better! :o

You're right, Mike -- my 'formatting' is obviously very "annoying" and "obnoxious" as well (can't help myself though)!;)

[MBurke]

You're right, Mike -- my 'formatting' is obviously very "annoying" and "obnoxious" as well (can't help myself though)!;)

Aw man, cmon! :eek:

[zipyaj]

.... I believe you have to be in the state and go to the county clerk (or something like that) to retain the books. I could be wrong, and probably am, but if someone can enlighten me on how to retain non-profit records that would be helpful!

Obtaining records for Corporations is a simple act of due dilligence. Let's say for example that someone wanted to learn more about a Company, its Officers and Agents and more. Or maybe if that entity even existed or if a Trade Name was available for use. Further, that if the name of that entity contained the keywords "Roller Hockey" for example. A simple search from the Secretary of State in any state in the union would return results, more or less, for free. Some states charge more for detailed records. The same can be said for searching Trademarks, DBAs, etc., from a variety of sources. Even domains names can often identify the owner(s) by searching the WhoIs database.

Search firms charge an average of $1500 minimum for such searches.

If one wanted to identify line item (i.e. TShirt) and/or table detail in a tax return, they would likely have to be an insider with the IRS or one H-E double hockey sticks of a hacker. Just try that one with a public company, let alone a non-profit.

In my opinion, this is not a HOCKEY issue. And neither innuendo or double entrendre appear even in the NHL's Rule Book.

C'mon... Let's Play Hockey and Let's Play Fair.

How about that Mandatory Coach Certification topic? Now, that's a shaker for a Roller Hockey topic.


Regards,

[StateWarsDir]

Just so everyone knows where my stance on the USA Hockey issue stems from I am going to retell a scenario that occurred last year that some may know but many may not. I will preface this by saying that I have been a big USAHIL supporter for the past 4 years but have also always questioned the motives of USA Hockey (the ice side).

Last year, Daryn and I were talking on the phone and I mentioned to him a cool roller hockey article that was in that months issue of USA Hockey magazine. But when Daryn opened up his copy of that same issue, he couldn't find the inline section. You see my membership was as an inline member and Daryn's membership was as a dual ice/inline member. We then made a few phone calls and came to realize that the "inline section insert of about 4-6 pages" was ONLY inserted into those members who were listed as "inline only members". Not only was this section omitted from every "ice hockey member" but also from all "dual ice/inline members". After seeing this, my suspicions that USA Hockey could care less about the growth of inline hockey only grew in my mind.

Now of course there were a million and one excuses for this, but come on. Please be mindful that these thoughts are my own belief and I leave it up to anyone else to make of it what you will. I do not blame the USAHIL people as I don't believe they even had a clue what was going on and I truly believe that the people that work on the inline side really do care and want to see our port grow. Who I do blame are some of the decision makers of USA Hockey, who only care about ice hockey.

I wont bore you with many other examples to justify my personal belief, but I wanted to share this one big example. So for me personally, this belief is one of the huge reasons why I am a supporter of RHA. In the end, I know that EVERYONE involved has one common goal and that is to grow the sport of roller hockey. We all live and breathe it 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. I do also believe that USA Hockey could and should be a huge asset to our sport, as they have major influence, funding, connections etc.. but unfortunately those assets have never been used to help grow our sport. And in fact to this day, most "ice hockey enthusiasts" who have no involvement in roller hockey still continue to knock our sport and try to forbid their players from participating in it.

It's funny, where I live many ice hockey coaches have recruited top players off of roller hockey teams because they are the most talented. And then once they get them on their ice team, they try to convince those same parents that roller hockey is bad for their game. If that is not an oxymoron I don't know what is.

[ACCCT2]

the decision makers of USA Hockey, who only care about ice hockey.

I got news for 'ya -- they don't even "care" about ice hockey, only money (and how they can maintain a luxurious 5-star expense account lifestyle for themselves, their families and cronies on the backs of membership and sponsorship monies, oh -- and as well as of their obvious 'insider-generated & 'insider-benefitting' insurance scam).:mad:

[Ericnewell18]

ACCCT2,

Every post of yours has a problem with people making money?? I dont get it, the ONLY reason i wake up in the morning and go to work is to make money. You must do everything for free. That is very nice of you. I myself expect to get paid for everything i do. Especially when it comes to my business, and personally, the more money I make, the better.

[Hockeydevil29]

Jay Piz

I have read your comments over and over and still don't get why you even posted them. To me you sound like one of those guys who sits at his computer with a dictionary and thesaurus next to him and hopes to sound really intelligent to everyone reading.

If I'm reading Daryn correctly what he is saying is that RHA has no problem keeping their "books open" for the public to see what their finances are being used for. But if people are worried about them then they should also be looking into all of the other non profits out there like AAU and USA Hockey etc.. Maybe your organization is non profit too and it struck a chord, not sure.

[AJ Barnett]

Jay Piz

I have read your comments over and over and still don't get why you even posted them. To me you sound like one of those guys who sits at his computer with a dictionary and thesaurus next to him and hopes to sound really intelligent to everyone reading.

I'm confused on what makes you think this person looks things up with a dictionary and thesaurus. Read this post by Jay Piz:


Obtaining records for Corporations is a simple act of due dilligence. Let's say for example that someone wanted to learn more about a Company, its Officers and Agents and more. Or maybe if that entity even existed or if a Trade Name was available for use. Further, that if the name of that entity contained the keywords "Roller Hockey" for example. A simple search from the Secretary of State in any state in the union would return results, more or less, for free. Some states charge more for detailed records. The same can be said for searching Trademarks, DBAs, etc., from a variety of sources. Even domains names can often identify the owner(s) by searching the WhoIs database.

Search firms charge an average of $1500 minimum for such searches.

If one wanted to identify line item (i.e. TShirt) and/or table detail in a tax return, they would likely have to be an insider with the IRS or one H-E double hockey sticks of a hacker. Just try that one with a public company, let alone a non-profit.

In my opinion, this is not a HOCKEY issue. And neither innuendo or double entrendre appear even in the NHL's Rule Book.

C'mon... Let's Play Hockey and Let's Play Fair.

How about that Mandatory Coach Certification topic? Now, that's a shaker for a Roller Hockey topic.


Regards,

What from that post sounds like something someone would need to look up with a reference guide to make themselves sound more intelligent and informed?

[ACCCT2]

ACCCT2,

Every post of yours has a problem with people making money?? I dont get it, the ONLY reason i wake up in the morning and go to work is to make money. You must do everything for free. That is very nice of you. I myself expect to get paid for everything i do. Especially when it comes to my business, and personally, the more money I make, the better.

I have no problem with people making money either. But an NGB's mandate (in the USA's case, under the USOC's charter) is definitely NOT supposed to be about making money for themselves off of the hard-working membership. USA Hockey couldn't even do the one thing they're arguably kept around to do -- make sure the US Olympic Teams make it to the Olympics in game shape and on time. USA Hockey has very happily given up the "game shape" responsibilities to the NHL's individual teams, so all they had to do in Turin, Italy was make sure that uniforms, airfare and hotel arrangements were in place for the players -- something so minimal that it'd hard to believe that even they could somehow screw it up...but they did ("google" Mike Modano's comments on such -- they subsequently benched him in order to 'silence' him). But one should never underestimate (overestimate?) our colorfully illustrious and never-a-dull-moment NGB's efforts to 'showcase' their best -- it should be duly noted that in doing everything they had to do in the Turin Winter Games, USA Hockey ""essential" executives and "essential" office personal made damn sure that they, their "essential" families, their "essential" cronies, buddies and kick-friends were all "essentially" taken care of (at membership expense), but lo and behold, the NGB-wide culture of "entitlement" and "not-my-job" corruption resulted in NO ONE making arrangements for the actual ("NON-essential"?) players.

In short, an NGB's primary "raison d'être" is not to be a self-serving "businsess" for and unto themselves (benefitting ONLY themselves), but an advocate for the benefit and welfare of the players and game, it's that simple. But "brains" like you would excuse almost any NGB (or quasi-NGB) transgression imaginable as long as they spouted enough feel-good "Kool-Aid" mantra's like the RHA's "we're only doing this out of the goodness of our hearts" -- GEEZ, and what major successful and benevolent business or NGB are you running that you can be so generous with everyone else's hard-earned cash?

I find it so incredibly amazing that so many here seem to have no problem with NGB accountability or answerability -- it's truly appalling how many off-court sheep populate such a tough on-court game. Make no mistake -- I find no fault with commercial, for-profit companies making money delivering what they say they'll deliver in their sales pitches. But once you get into NGB or quasi-NGB-like organizations, there absolutely better be detailed transparancy, democracy, reliability and accountability within every aspect of their operations. Period. Otherwise, just like is the case with USA Hockey and way, way too many of the IIHF ice hockey NGB's (as well as far too many sport NGB's in general), the culture of corruption and entitlement and arrogant UN-accounability takes root and like the worst virus imaginable, rots out (or eventually roots out) even the best and most qualified of officials, objectives and ultimately, organizations.

[zipyaj]

Dear Ms. "HockeyDevil29"
You are sorely wrong ma'am if I will mix words with you in a public forum over a topic such as Non-Profit placed in a section reserved for Professional Inline Hockey.

You are entitled to voice and express yourself as you may within the limits of the Terms of Service.

Good day to you.

Regards,

[Berry_Bramble]

Correct me if I'm wrong Sandy, but if I kill all the golfers, they're gonna lock me up and throw away the key...

[CoachClipboard]

Been watching this silently from the sidelines and for #$@#s and giggles, I thought I would count how many different people posted to both this thread and its predecessor. Combined we have 38 (Ill be 39) different posters. Of those who posted 19 of you actually use your name so it is not anonymous. Of those I am fairly certain 2 of the names are fabricated. 6 of the posters are either rink managers, or GMs/Owners of a pro franchise, be it AIHL or PIHA. 3 of the 19 are administrators or founders of an NGB of some sort. 2 of the 19 actually are either the moderators or founder of this very forum.

deep breath

of the 19 anonymous posters, 14 of you spoke on the negative of the RHA. Of those 14, Eight were annoyingly condescending towards virtually anyone trying to explain the purpose of the NHA. One of the 19 I cant actually read their post without screaming in pain.

What I am not understanding is the following:
Why are we even arguing over this? Dont you people love this sport? I mean, why else would you even be on this forum? Of all of the millions and millions of forums in this world wide web, you chose inline hockey. DUH. of course you love it. If you dont, and youre here? then you are in serious need of mental health or a few friends. So we all love this game and SOMEONE wants to take a stab at healing this game! GOOD for them!!! By God lets pray that this is the answer!! So it costs 30 bucks to play at the events of those entities who organized this RHA? Dont like it? Dont play. It really is that simple. By not playing, you are giving up at some of the ....no correction...the finest and classiest events in North America. Which only you will lose out on. We all know better. Everyones going to NARCh and State Wars, and Torhs. They could charge you 50 and you would be there. Hell you probably drop more than that at the bars when youre there, or in slots.

What is wrong with you people???? Seriously! No wonder this sport is losing its numbers. I think of all of you as my friends, both here in this forum over the years Ive been here, and when I see you at rinks, and during games. yet we come here and we bash away at each other like children. This forum should be for creating a stronger sport! Im sure that is what Richards intentions are for. We have to band together and make this sport stronger. I know of no other person aside from these founders of this alliance who are stepping forward and making it happen. And wow! I was shocked when I read it. There are some rivaling organizations in that group of gentleman and lady. I know most of them personally and for years these same people have made this sport what it is today. Think about it! If some of them have not taken the time to build what they have, regardless if they made money on it (and rightfully should, I know how hard the work they do is) and said "Oh well, I dont think Ill hold NARCh, State Wars, Torhs, PIHA, NAYRHL this year. I think Ill spend time instead doing something with my family" Something I know some of these people sacrifice. Then where would we be?? Where would we go to play? How long do you think many of the big rinks and facilities would survive with that lack of interest when the players are bummed out and going fishing, golfing?

It turns my stomach to watch this sport eat away at itself from the inside because of the lack of support that it receives from the whining lil pansys. The people who only spit venom and never lift a finger to volunteer to help. Help not at the executive level perhaps, but work with kids, get programs started in their communities, or pick up a phone and call one of these founders, be it RHA, USA, AAU, or any other, and say, WHAT CAN I DO! How can I help?

If you look around this forum people? you will notice that most of the people who communicate on here actually can do something to help. If there are 3 governing bodies?? So what??? if there are no governing bodies....I fear even more that this sport will eventually die.

Dont just sit there. Contribute. Before we have a society of XBox 360.
If you do anything, do it for the youth of this game.

Sorry for the long post. I needed to spout.

[quick_dry]

Todd, just wondering which group I was categorised in? positive or negative? anonymous, named, named (but fake name); and which category of involvement?

I also wonder, when you talk of people spitting venom and never lifting a finger, whether you should really state that categorically - because unless you actually know who these people posting are, you can't know their involvement.

e.g. you don't know me from a bar of soap, and vice versa. (same for knowledge of each others contribution to the sport)

If people are just taking potshots and making an arse of themselves, then fair enough to call them out on it. But I think there have been lots of genuinely worthwhile questions raised.

Guys in software business will have heard the old cliched stories about changing projects while they're underway being so ridiculously costly, and costing it ten times as much as if it had been done properly at the start. It is the same here, obviously you want to avoid being stuck in 'analysis paralysis' and never get anything done, but if you can incorporate useful suggestions you ultimately end up in a better position, particularly when it is a product that relies on the community to be successful.

Feedback and constructive criticism is a good thing.

It would be all great to gather round in a big group because we all love inline hockey and are doing our own things to try and make it bigger. But, wouldn't it be better if someone raised pertinent issues at the start.

[StateWarsDir]

Lets first remember everyone that we're posting on a public forum that is about roller hockey. Meaning kids and moms etc. to come online here and read this stuff. Steven, I'm the lats guy normally to want to censor anyone but come on, edit your comments before the "wrong" people read it.

Anyway two comments I want to make.

1. First off (and if anyone has anything negative to spin on this one I'm going to retire) Bobby Ryan of the Anaheim Ducks had a natural hat trick last night. His first hat trick of his NHL career and I believe the youngest player in Ducks history to record a hat trick! You most certainly wont read about this in USA Hockey magazine but Bobby is truly a roller hockey player FIRST, yes can you imagine that, a kid who grew up with wheels below his feet was not only the #2 pick in the NHL draft (behind some kid named Crosby) but he also is in the NHL and doing very well. We hear all the time about kids that "dabbled" in some roller hockey but Bobby truly is a roller kid first. I know first hand as I was friendly with the family and used to watch Bobby play 8under (man am I getting old) for the '99ers back in the day for Todd Melton at the New Jersey Coliseum. Bobby was big, strong, and very talented even back then. I recall Todd telling me one time that Bobby carved a statement into the Flyers practice facilities wet cement saying "I'll be back someday" or something like that. Great stuff for our sport and congrats Bobby. A great player and person!

2. In regards to RHA. As Todd Wiley mentioned everyone "supposedly" loves the sport if they are taking the time to come onto this message board. We also know that some people are "the glass is half empty" kind of people, we can't change them. We also know that there are some people in this world that you can walk up to them and hand them a $20 bill and they will turn and say "why couldn't you give me $25?". Again that's life and we can't change people. Bottom line, whether your an AAU guy, a USAHIL supporter, love or hate Daryn or myself or anyone in the RHA group it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that we ALL agree that our sport is not thriving like it should be and we need some new direction and new ideas. There needs to be new attention to growing the game at all levels and namely in the youngest ages and grass roots. Had all of the "powers that be" been doing the greatest job possible RHA wouldn't have been formed. And TRUST me when I tell you I wish that were the case, as then I wouldn't be adding yet more and more hours of time and energy into this new and very important project. I think I can speak for every member of RHA and say that if the sport was booming and we could all spend ALL of our time worrying about just growing our own individual business' we would be fine with that. And all would be good.

But we all know that isn't the case. So anyone can be a nay sayer or think of ways to find negative in a positive or criticize etc.. In the end, if I were a betting man, I'd put my money behind the group that leaves and breathes this sport, has been in it since day one, and has a vested interest to see it grow. And like it or not that group is RHA. Like it or not people, we are going to help make this sport grow and make it better. Because if RHA can't do it, then this sport is in big trouble.

Have a great Friday!

Tim McManus

[DMezz28]

Guys

Unfortunately, we all wear the scars of Roller Hockey. Trust Me, no one loves the sport more than me... but we do not get taken seriously because of the past failures from our sport. Some people still associate Roller hockey with the California Beach league, with a ball. We need to change the world's view of us. We do not do a good enough job (I am guilty too) of promoting our sport, and our Superstars to the outside world.

I agree that a uniform body of roller hockey needs to be formed. I dont know enough about RHA to say if that is the right plan, however.. its a great start.

We need to set goals... Where is the sport going? My first son will be born in 2 months. I want a system for him to climb through (Peewee..College,etc.) to get to the PIHA / AIHL.. or a new RHI - 20 years from now.

Pro games should be able to hold 3 - 5,000 - like a Harvard Arena.
We need to think long term, we should try to get the main governing body to help build additions to existing rinks to accomodate more fans. The governing body should be regulated through checks and balances, Like a Mini US government. Magazines, local newspapers and getting TV contracts a important to help promote this sport. We need a Section of USA hockey every month.

If you coach / play... someone is looking up to you, but we all need to be a on the same page to make sure we send the youth players in the right direction.

My biggest fear is that this sport turns into basketball. Basketball went from a team sport to a street Game... Basketball Teams allow 1 on 1games within the 5 on 5 game. The "Thugs" took over... I see the young Players, only wanting to "dangle". - A give and go is just as pretty, and they need to learn that too.

Everyone who checks this forum is a leader of this industry, and cares about what is going on with Roller Hockey. We cant forget that -

For your contributions to the sport, some of you work in the Trenches, and others work behind desks... we all need each other, it all counts.

[TylerSollberger]

This isnt a software business. It's the majority leaders of inline hockey making an effort to unite the sport and its going to cost you 30 dollars. If you cant afford 30 dollars, find an old pair of skates and sell them to play it again sports and start saving up for next year. This is the most annoying thread I have ever read. When AAU started the AIHL, no one questioned where the money went from that league, along with all this other bs. Most hockey players could care less what the by-laws and other crap an organization has. They care about how they are treated and how much fun they have at an event. The RHA has and will excel at that. End of discussion.

[ACCCT2]

...So we all love this game and SOMEONE wants to take a stab at healing this game! GOOD for them!!! By God lets pray that this is the answer!!

Actually, I'm prayin' to a different inline hockey God (as my "God" would never be a collective "cabal" of "for-profit" entities).;)



...the finest and classiest events in North America. Which only you will lose out on. We all know better.

Do "we all" now?



...Everyones going to NARCh and State Wars, and Torhs.

Well actually, NOT everyone.



...They could charge you 50 and you would be there. Hell you probably drop more than that at the bars when youre there, or in slots.

At least "in the slots" (the one-armed-bandit kind, not the on-court kind, right?) you have a chance at actually winning something truly meaningful with your money.



...What is wrong with you people???? Seriously! No wonder this sport is losing its numbers...these same people have made this sport what it is today. Think about it!

Hmmm...'thought' about it -- the 'wholeness' of threads and people's thought patterns are sometimes so incredibly contradictory and revealing -- I'm not sure that "these people" would want to 'own' the totality of this one, eh? Think about it!;)



...Dont just sit there. Contribute. Before we have a society of XBox 360.
If you do anything, do it for the youth of this game.

Don't have (nor want or have time for) an XBox 360. And the 30-year ad-guy in me says anything invoking 2/3 of Nike's "just do it" iconic sales pitch might actually have, well, maybe even at least 2/3 of a GOOD idea in it!;)




...Sorry for the long post. I needed to spout.

Spouting is a GOOD thing...at least, a "needed" thing in truly constructive and democratic discourse, discussion and decision-making processes, right?:D

[Berry_Bramble]

I say we just draw straws. Who ever has the longest straw gets the peanut butter. This is partially what is wrong. That and Steve Martin feels the need to ruin the Pink Panther series. Maybe Colin Campbell and Gary Bettman can help us get our **** together.

Everyone just wants to bash every idea but no one wants to put out there what they think should be done. I for one want a free key chain with my 30 bucks. Also maybe then they can stop gas prices from slowly creeping back up.

I have no problem with critiquing. But pointing out the same stuff over and over..wait….and over again gets nauseating.

I am going to fall under the need all three insurance category and can guarantee I will only end up paying for one of them. Because, the people involved with one of them have there **** together. I will let you figure it out.

Just because you are a non-profit, that does not give you the right to do things half assed. It just doesn’t. It also does not mean you automatically do it the right way. I would trust the people who have something to lose before I would the people who do not.

Does anyone posting in here crying like a.. well…can’t post that here…. have kids ages 12 years old and younger involved in this sport? If you do, you would see how horrible the turn out has been for local stuff. Even the Nationals level at some events.

Here on long island we haven’t had an 8u division more than once in the past 5 years. Actually the only two people who seem to be trying to put an 8u team together every year is me and Gosh.(love ya Chris) The only time we have an 8u division is the NARCh qualifier’s because I have to qualify my two 8u teams in like June and we find some team to come and play us. Oh, or if we went and played Assault three times at their rink while there was a tournament. That’s not good.

So we have a group of people who got tired of waiting and decided to do something about it. Is it for the love of the sport? Yep. Is it for monetary gain? Most likely, some one has to get paid. The fact is there not sitting around on there ass waiting anymore for someone else to do it.

I am not seeing what the problem is here? I really don’t.

When I was younger indoor soccer was played in high school gyms. Might still be, I do not know. Now it is played on our hockey rinks and taking away rink time from hockey because it is not paying the bills for rink owners.

We need much less sand in everyone’s …… and more people trying to get younger kids playing this sport. Or, we will not have one in a few years. Hey, everyone wants to be the ‘that’s not a good idea guy, because what I think is best’. Right now is not the best time for that guy.

[thebenchman]

WOW!!

I have been reading this for the past few days. I have/had been around for quite awhile. Having seeing both sides and trying to wave some sort of magic wand to unify the sport before it would die out. For years I got caught up in the political garbage of the game. Even still as I am no longer really involved in the game but I still am passionate about the game.

If (as it has been said)giving 30 bucks to get a START in unifying the sport, I am for it. However......I can remember just a few years all the talk was of how USAHIL was going to be the SAVIOUR of the inline game. NARCh and Start Wars proudly touted that flag. I think many of those who are now doubting this body of work, are in thier minds drawing comparison from then to now. Is this of the same?, same people same idea?

As far as non-profit or not, some of you I think are just upset you didnt think of this first! j/k

If these people on the the RHA board DO make money on this so what? If it DOES unify the sport, who cares? That is what we have been asking for, for YEARS! Hell it could be Scobby Doo for all I care. We need to get one VOICE!

The insurance has been the sticking question for years. If this is a way to get insurance across the board AND unify the game to make it better, why is it bad?

For those of you who rag (I cant believe I am saying this) Daryn and Tim, they are business men. Never once do they claim they are not trying to make money. So to the both of you I applaude you for this attempt. I am hoping it does work! But to all else please understand, the real definition if insanity is...... doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

Roy Warren
in case some of you forgot :)

[NUhusky39]

I'm just curious if the RHA has any plans to use a portion of the $30 paid by the members to help fund or donate to this here website/message board that is vital to us here in the roller hockey community.

As a non-profit the RHA should be giving back to the community and given what Mr. Graham has already donated (and Mike Burke too), I'd like to see part of my $30 (that I will end up paying) help inline hockey central continue to be the site for news and discussion.

[ACCCT2]

I say we just draw straws. Who ever has the longest straw gets the peanut butter. This is partially what is wrong. That and Steve Martin feels the need to ruin the Pink Panther series. Maybe Colin Campbell and Gary Bettman can help us get our **** together.

Everyone just wants to bash every idea but no one wants to put out there what they think should be done. I for one want a free key chain with my 30 bucks. Also maybe then they can stop gas prices from slowly creeping back up.

I have no problem with critiquing. But pointing out the same stuff over and over..wait….and over again gets nauseating.

I am going to fall under the need all three insurance category and can guarantee I will only end up paying for one of them. Because, the people involved with one of them have there **** together. I will let you figure it out.

Just because you are a non-profit, that does not give you the right to do things half assed. It just doesn’t. It also does not mean you automatically do it the right way. I would trust the people who have something to lose before I would the people who do not.

Does anyone posting in here crying like a.. well…can’t post that here…. have kids ages 12 years old and younger involved in this sport? If you do, you would see how horrible the turn out has been for local stuff. Even the Nationals level at some events.

Here on long island we haven’t had an 8u division more than once in the past 5 years. Actually the only two people who seem to be trying to put an 8u team together every year is me and Gosh.(love ya Chris) The only time we have an 8u division is the NARCh qualifier’s because I have to qualify my two 8u teams in like June and we find some team to come and play us. Oh, or if we went and played Assault three times at their rink while there was a tournament. That’s not good.

So we have a group of people who got tired of waiting and decided to do something about it. Is it for the love of the sport? Yep. Is it for monetary gain? Most likely, some one has to get paid. The fact is there not sitting around on there ass waiting anymore for someone else to do it.

I am not seeing what the problem is here? I really don’t.

When I was younger indoor soccer was played in high school gyms. Might still be, I do not know. Now it is played on our hockey rinks and taking away rink time from hockey because it is not paying the bills for rink owners.

We need much less sand in everyone’s …… and more people trying to get younger kids playing this sport. Or, we will not have one in a few years. Hey, everyone wants to be the ‘that’s not a good idea guy, because what I think is best’. Right now is not the best time for that guy.

GEEZ -- "Berry_Bramble" could be just the kinda' "God" or "Commish" our sport needs, eh (and "a free key chain with my 30 bucks" is an absolute imperative in my "Black-Biscuit-Bible") -- anyway "BB", you've hereby got my enthusiastic nomination as "Commish" of anything truly worthy of our collective attention and "religious" devotion (that is, as long as your "heaven/administration" includes Richard, MikeB and anyone else who actually delivers true value and service to our sport).;)

[Berry_Bramble]

GEEZ -- "Berry_Bramble" could be just the kinda' "God" or "Commish" our sport needs, eh (and "a free key chain with my 30 bucks" is an absolute imperative in my "Black-Biscuit-Bible") -- anyway "BB", you've hereby got my enthusiastic nomination as "Commish" of anything truly worthy of our collective attention and "religious" devotion (that is, as long as your "heaven/administration" includes Richard, MikeB and anyone else who actually delivers true value and service to our sport).;)

I knew I liked you ;) But you are going to have to lose all the ' and the " and the ( oh and the ). But, I must ask you. What makes something or someone of value to the sport?


WOW!!

I have been reading this for the past few days. I have/had been around for quite awhile. Having seeing both sides and trying to wave some sort of magic wand to unify the sport before it would die out. For years I got caught up in the political garbage of the game. Even still as I am no longer really involved in the game but I still am passionate about the game.

If (as it has been said)giving 30 bucks to get a START in unifying the sport, I am for it. However......I can remember just a few years all the talk was of how USAHIL was going to be the SAVIOUR of the inline game. NARCh and Start Wars proudly touted that flag. I think many of those who are now doubting this body of work, are in thier minds drawing comparison from then to now. Is this of the same?, same people same idea?

As far as non-profit or not, some of you I think are just upset you didnt think of this first! j/k

If these people on the the RHA board DO make money on this so what? If it DOES unify the sport, who cares? That is what we have been asking for, for YEARS! Hell it could be Scobby Doo for all I care. We need to get one VOICE!

The insurance has been the sticking question for years. If this is a way to get insurance across the board AND unify the game to make it better, why is it bad?

For those of you who rag (I cant believe I am saying this) Daryn and Tim, they are business men. Never once do they claim they are not trying to make money. So to the both of you I applaude you for this attempt. I am hoping it does work! But to all else please understand, the real definition if insanity is...... doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

Roy Warren
in case some of you forgot :)

Who are you again?

oh and for this
'As far as non-profit or not, some of you I think are just upset you didnt think of this first! j/k '

You are absolutely right. Hey, if I thought at all this could be done, I would of tried to do it.

[StateWarsDir]

Benchman
Welcome back! long time no see. As far as people wishing they had come up with the idea. Trust me I will speak for myself saying I wish someone else was doing this. Again what some still don't get is this isn't being done out of want, self fulfillment, or arrogance but out of need. Both Narch and State Wars #s have been up every year, so we could easily take the "heck with the rest of the world" attitude but we're not. And we're not looking for a pat on the back for it either, we SHOULD care about the sport because it is our livelihood and if we don't care who will?
You are also correct that Daryn and I supported USA Hockey for the last bunch of years, that is no secret. I don't want to speak for Daryn but I don't think any of us ever referred to them as the "savior". For one we felt it was the best option out there and most importantly I will still say that in a perfect world USA Hockey would be the perfect partner/ally to our sport. They have the ability to do so much for our sport, especially with the power they have on the ice hockey side. Unfortunately after giving them many years to prove it, they haven't really ever came close to maximizing those assets and help our sport. It's like bragging to all of your friends that you own a Ferrari but you never take it out of the garage! So I don't regret believing in USA Hockey, we all need to believe in someone in life.
But what makes RHA so much different here is the fact of who holds the cards and who pull the strings. The good people at USAHIL have little say in the big machine called USA Hockey, they have great intentions but little say. Gary was a HUGE part of that push and he is no longer there, go figure. So if I were the one filling in Gary's shoes, would I want to push the envelope now or just do enough to not rock the boat? I'll let you be the judge. In the case of RHA, when we see something great in our sport that needs to be promoted or improved we will quite simply do it. Look at the awesome comments about Bobby Ryan I mentioned earlier (the fact that no one has commented on that, even you Bench who knows him very well, shows me peoples attention is at the wrong things in general) that is something great to talk about in our sport and there are many examples of it, I hope RHA will let the world be educated about great stories like that, that give our sport more and more credibility!

Tim M

[Berry_Bramble]

Who would draft Bobby Ryan...especially for there fantasy team?

[thebenchman]

Tim

I have long been a HUGE Bobby Ryan fan! I was talking him up around here in the ice community long before his drafting. There are several Inline players who have great opportunity to make it pro. Patrick Maroon incredible in line player, with Philly's top farm team. It was my understanding that the year that Crosby and Ryan were chosen along with Gilbert Brule and Jack Johnson ALL had played their inline too. I know this year the Blues sceond round pick Phillip McRae was a big inline player too.. So I do understand that significance.

I know that it was thought that USAHIL was THOUGHT to be coming in and the one to pull the sport together. I know It now appears they were like many others in their deceiving the people in the sport. I was trying to make the point while this "appears" to be a step in a good direction, you surely understand why some are apprehensive.

Because the sport has no REAL leader, we have many "Nationals, Tournament Series, High School Leagues, and now Pro leagues, there are no REAL rules and each has their own. I am not against making money, it is free enterprise. However, if there were guiding rules and the majority of players/rinks accepted these rules it could stop a lot of renegade organizations. You will always have some of those, but by and large, there will be some unified direction for the game.

The plain simple fact it that unification of the sport will cause several in this game to lose their golden goose. Therefore it is a fight. Just look at this past year with PHIA and AIHL. Omg, it was like war brother against brother. Again one man had rules other didnt agree. That is part of life. We did the same thing in our Presidential election. Love him hate him Obama is going to be our president. We all did the same for Bush. But we are still Americans (except for the Aussie guy) and we support our Country, because it is ours even though we complain and hate the way things are done. We would fight for it unconditionally!

And there is only US President at a time.

While many may complain where is the 30bucks going, I wanna see where it goes, grow the sport, etc ect.....bottom line is if this CAN pull it together, it is not large amount of money. However if this fails..... many of the "leaders" involved with this MAY should not be given this opportunity again.

Harsh? Last prargraph may be but it is how I see/think it. Does the board think that is fair?

[ACCCT2]

...And we're not looking for a pat on the back for it either, we SHOULD care about the sport because it is our livelihood...

Finally, a succinct and humble and honestly pertinent statement of fact from someone at RHA.



...and if we don't care who will? The parents, players and other worthy organizers, that's who.



...They (USA Hockey) have the ability to do so much for our sport, especially with the power they have on the ice hockey side.

USA Hockey holds absolutely no meaningful "power" on the ice hockey side that isn't quite frankly, simply assumed of them and their so-called "power". Trust me (or better yet, do some research), from my own 20-plus years of first-hand experience in having to deal with or legally correct or outflank them, nearly all the handsomely paid higher-ups at USA Hockey have virtually no love or passion for the game whatsoever (in fact many have never even played the game at any level). Hence, outside of Gary D, I'm not really surprised that 'inline' gets no meaningful attention, funding or support whatsoever from the "higher-ups" at USA Hockey (takes away from their "essential" expense account monies).



...But what makes RHA so much different here is the fact of who holds the cards and who pull the strings.

Really? So RHA's accountability, transparancy and decison-making processes will be "different" in that they'll be open, accessible and responsive to virtually anyone, right?

[rhhof]

Why can't we just hold back and give them a chance instead of firing back everyday...now we are creating more heat and talking about the same things in a different light now

NARCh and State Wars have consistantly had the best officiating staffs year after year - Perhaps, IF GIVEN THE CHANCE, they will be working toward a training program and help develop our younger or more inexperienced officals to get on that right track

Tim McManus is one of, imo the best all-time in the coaching field and has the most National champion teams at ALL levels. Peter Dale is tops in this sport when it comes to training, teaching and showing what is needed in this sport to build programs and focus toward what your team needs - They both have been training teams and put on the best clinics for years and Peter is known around the world in this sport. Their resumes speak for themselves - Perhaps, IF GIVEN THE CHANCE, he will work with the alliance in developing programs that we can help teach our coaches to push and help grow their own programs

Along with everyone else in the Alliance, they have all been in our sport since the early 90's....All have either played or coached teams to numerous national championships and are all HIGHLY reguarded in their area as well as the nation and the world. They all have proven resumes in our industry and have all consistanly pushed or created something new for our sport all the time. They all run organizations in our sport, facilities or both and KNOW WHAT WORKS because of their LONG experience at this

To everyone in the Alliance, you do not need to humor this guy anymore - I know you will be on top with these new programs and our sport will be stronger because of it -- If there is anything I can do, you have my assistance and FULL SUPPORT and THANK YOU

[STEMM]

The parents, players and other worthy organizers, that's who.

Players ??? What the Hell are you talking about. Do you think a bunch of 10 year olds are going to start an organization similar to RHA for the benefit of the sport. Kids and Parents have no clue how much work goes on behind closed doors to keep a tournament, house league, or even a team together. They just pay their fee show up an enjoy this great game of Roller Hockey !

ACCT2 DO EVERYONE A FAVOR, PICK A NEW SPORT !

[ACCCT2]

Players ??? What the Hell are you talking about. Do you think a bunch of 10 year olds are going to start an organization similar to RHA for the benefit of the sport. Kids and Parents have no clue how much work goes on behind closed doors to keep a tournament, house league, or even a team together. They just pay their fee show up an enjoy this great game of Roller Hockey !

ACCT2 DO EVERYONE A FAVOR, PICK A NEW SPORT !

What's that sage old Alexis de Tocqueville saying: "In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve." -- without any truly and openly transparent democratic decision-making oversight and legal accountability/answerability controls over this clearly for-profit-first oriented cabal, I think those of you who blindly buy into a non-transparent, non-accountable, non-inclusive, non-verifiable, non-responsive and ultimately non-democratic "quasi-NGB" run by only "inline-hockey-livelihooded" businessmen (spouting "mandatory/certification" edicts and their clearly attendant "pay-us-first" fees) are unfortunately about get the "democracy" you inevitably deserve (ultimately, even the worst historical tyrants and wimps like Hitler, Stalin, Chamberlain and Carter won election on their respective rises to power, infamy and ultimate disaster -- and mostly due largely to the exhausted, exhasperated and jaded masses buying into their siren-sweet-seductive "trust me, I know who's to blame and how to save us" routines). Hmmm, sadly I believe it is "I believe it is peace in our time" time once again in our unwanted-orphan-refugee of a sport.:(

Say what you will about me, I'm not pickin' anyone's pocket for "mandatory/certification" fees (on top of the RHA businessmen's usual "mandatory" player/event entry fees). What's so incredibly off or irregular or "negative" about anyone asking for openly transparent and democratic decision-making processes and attendent player-responsive "controls" being put in place by RHA? What gives with RHA's hyper-sensitivity and (so far) refusal to address this? I'm sorry, but with no adequate RHA response (so far) to these rather basic and important legal "control/accountability" issues, I'm unfortunately gonna' have to go by that simple and wise old political adage: "If it smells fishy and rotten, then it is fishy and rotten.":(

I'll leave you all with another daring dose of Alexis de Tocqueville wisdom: "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

And: "When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness."

[Berry_Bramble]

NARCh and State Wars have consistantly had the best officiating staffs year after year - Perhaps, IF GIVEN THE CHANCE, they will be working toward a training program and help develop our younger or more inexperienced officals to get on that right track


Except that guy Adam. What a loser.



ACCT2 DO EVERYONE A FAVOR, PICK A NEW SPORT !

That wouldn't be much fun now would it? And all that my 97s want to know is when they are going to get silk jerseys. Clearly they are ready to band together and start there own group.

[rhhof]

See Vio, I was going to think about retiring this year, but on that note, my last game will be one of yours at NARCh finals this summer

I will wait until one of your teams gets into a final (wait maybe that wont happen) and I'll toss you out, that will be the highlight of my career...then I'll retire...no no wait maybe I can do it in two games at Finals....lol

Love ya man

[quick_dry]

This isnt a software business. It's the majority leaders of inline hockey making an effort to unite the sport and its going to cost you 30 dollars. If you cant afford 30 dollars, find an old pair of skates and sell them to play it again sports and start saving up for next year. This is the most annoying thread I have ever read. When AAU started the AIHL, no one questioned where the money went from that league, along with all this other bs. Most hockey players could care less what the by-laws and other crap an organization has. They care about how they are treated and how much fun they have at an event. The RHA has and will excel at that. End of discussion.
big deal if it isn't a software business, the lessons still stand. There are a thousand other analogies that you could make - a ship off course by 1 degree at the start of the journey only needs a slight turn to correct itself near the start, but ends up in entirely the wrong location if left on its merry way.

An organisation has momentum once it gets going, and once it gets going for a while it builds tradition/convention which increases that momentum. In that way it becomes harder and harder to shift an org onto a better path.

An example would be the FIRS stucture, which doesn't have management levels that integrate those from lower down very well. So you end up with very poor communication because the state level committee has no person on the national level, and the national committee might not have anyone going to the international region meetings, and so on. It is a complete disaster. But... when that gets pointed out, it gets noted that "that is not how we do things here", even when they agree it may be better. Perhaps if that structure had been questioned at the beginning something better might be in place.

On the other point, so what if players don't care about it. i agree, most players don't give a damn about bylaws or anything except where/when and how much the next game is. But just because people don't care about things doesn't mean they're not important or needed, they can be very important.

(I agree that $30 isn't a lot to each person, it isn't going to make a big dent in my wallet, but I think it is reasonable to question an organisation wherther the money is lots, or just a nominal amount. As pointed out, lots of small amounts make a big amount.)

the benchman: that was a great post, really well put. Though on the 'losing golden goose' front, I only see the ones who would be national governing bodies and their subsidiaries losing out if unification happens. I don't see the need for any of the tournaments series or leagues to fall over, they're pretty much all private businesses - you're just after sanctioning and a using a consistent set of rules.

[ACCCT2]

big deal if it isn't a software business, the lessons still stand. There are a thousand other analogies that you could make - a ship off course by 1 degree at the start of the journey only needs a slight turn to correct itself near the start, but ends up in entirely the wrong location if left on its merry way.

An organisation has momentum once it gets going, and once it gets going for a while it builds tradition/convention which increases that momentum. In that way it becomes harder and harder to shift an org onto a better path.

An example would be the FIRS stucture, which doesn't have management levels that integrate those from lower down very well. So you end up with very poor communication because the state level committee has no person on the national level, and the national committee might not have anyone going to the international region meetings, and so on. It is a complete disaster. But... when that gets pointed out, it gets noted that "that is not how we do things here", even when they agree it may be better. Perhaps if that structure had been questioned at the beginning something better might be in place.

On the other point, so what if players don't care about it. i agree, most players don't give a damn about bylaws or anything except where/when and how much the next game is. But just because people don't care about things doesn't mean they're not important or needed, they can be very important.

(I agree that $30 isn't a lot to each person, it isn't going to make a big dent in my wallet, but I think it is reasonable to question an organisation wherther the money is lots, or just a nominal amount. As pointed out, lots of small amounts make a big amount.)

the benchman: that was a great post, really well put. Though on the 'losing golden goose' front, I only see the ones who would be national governing bodies and their subsidiaries losing out if unification happens. I don't see the need for any of the tournaments series or leagues to fall over, they're pretty much all private businesses - you're just after sanctioning and a using a consistent set of rules.

100% DEAD-CENTER-RIGHT-ON with EVERYTHING stated by "quick_dry" here. And in my own humble opinion, the RHA (and its clearly for-profit-first businessmen and properties -- there, I said it, now you figure it out) is already way more "off course" than just "1 degree" with this kind of arrogantly non-transparent, non-accounatble, non-inclusive, non-responsive and non-democratic "start".:(

[Ericnewell18]

This will be my last post on the subject as it is getting annoying having the same 3 to 4 people bash other peoples goals. And just in case it makes a difference. Those 3 or 4 can not show up to any event in the country and i dont think anyone would care. I myself always wish everyone well, and hope good things come of them. It seems as this "rough" start, (as ACCCT2, said it with about 15 more adjectives)is right now non existant. AS REALLY NOTHING HAS STARTED YET!!! None of us know what is going to happen. So lets all implement the wait and see method. I myself am going to play regardless. As i am sure most of you are. (ACCCT2, I said most, ok not all). So Good luck, to everyone this upcoming season. Lets let them run their business the way they want to run it, if you dont like their product, DONT BUY IT. When the last time one of you walked into Macdonalds and started yelling at the guy flipping burgers, telling him he wasnt doing it right, and on top of that, for them to let you know how your 1.69 is being spent through the company??" I respect all of your opinions, but i have a hard time telling someone how to run their own business. Everyone stay safe. Keep skatin and lets have fun this season.

Eric Newell
Team Indiana
Hartford Fireants (Elite#77)

[Daryn G - NARCh]

Man, the advertising business must be super slow right now!

ACCCT2 has circled 10 times now saying the exact same things. “Non-transparent, non-accountable, non-inclusive, non-responsive, non-democratic start.” Take the non out of every one of those words and you have exactly what I’ve been wasting my time telling you every post. If you haven’t figured it out yet, you probably won’t and I’ll stop trying.
If we’re going to continue to talk about RHA, something new…..please!

At the end of the day ACCT2 does not believe that RHA will work. Cool, no biggie. Fact of the matter is that I’m sure he’s never played in any of our events or spends much time in a rink so is really unaware of who we are or what we do anyway, outside of what he sees on the internet.

Quickdry, FIRS is a poor example. They’ve been around forever and inherited the sport of roller hockey due to the fact that they’re the NGB of all things on wheels. They have been involved in ball and cane years before the sport we know evolved. One of their problems is that they’ve been detached from what is really happening in the sport. They’re the NGB and they don’t even have an employee that is a full time roller hockey person. To their credit, they’re finally realizing this and hoping to make some changes, which is a step in the right direction.

I do agree with you though, getting a good start is important. We have the right people involved here and I’m not going to spend my time elaborating beyond what I already have to people that have no interest in helping the sport and just love to argue.

ACCCT2, since you’re the “30 year ad guy” as you’ve also pointed out a million times, please share some of your ad work. If you can show that you were successful in anything in life, maybe you would gain some credibility. We know that you’ve done zero in this sport, but something somewhere would be a start. With your vast ad experience, and your passion for the sport, who knows, maybe RHA can hire you to help us with some of our campaigns?

I know, I know. You don’t have to show us anything to feel important and you’re way too busy with your million-dollar roller hockey euro fantasy dream. Maybe you can get pigs to fly over the rink during intermissions! If it comes down to only needing one big sponsor, call Advil! After dealing with you I’m sure they’d see the value in a sponsorship!

And to someone else’s point about calling on the phone, this is still a great way to communicate. If you’re a keyboard killer or text machine, good for you. But a phone call is more personable, tone of message is clear, and is more efficient. On the phone, as you answer questions, new questions arise. 1 phone call takes care of 10 emails or posts.

Thanks to all who have been so supportive! There are 10 of you to every negative person. You recognize the need for some things to happen in our sport and that’s what we’re doing. If you want to help, reach out and we’ll see how we can do some positive things together.

[Joe Noris]

I am trying to understand the real motive of RHA. I have been involved in hockey for a long time starting as a young boy playing ice hockey in Denver and moving to Canada when I was 16 years old to play Jr. hockey. I still play roller 2 or 3 times a week in San Diego:
I have played in the NHL, WHA & Team USA in ice and USARS nationals, NARCh Pro & Torhs Pro in roller.
Coached college & Tier ice hockey and roller hockey from 8u to Team USA and everything in between.
President San Diego Barracudas RHI
Hockey Director at Wayne Gretzky hockey center
Rink Owner Skate San Diego
Partner Sprung roller hockey frames

Yes I have been around the block in the hockey world, I first got involved in roller hockey with the RHI in 1995 and fell in love with the game. It has all the great things of ice hockey without the brutal violence of ice hockey.

In everything there is politics and yes it is in roller hockey.

FIRS Federation of International Roller Sports is the organization that will get roller hockey into the Olympics
USARS United States of America Roller Sports – this organization has been appointed by the US Olympic committee as the National Governing Body of inline roller hockey in the US (USA ice hockey has been appointed by the US Olympic committee as the NGB of ice hockey and their international federation is the IIHF

AAU has been appointed by USARS to conduct its national grassroots development program for inline hockey in conjunction with its own Junior Olympic Hockey activities. Both of these national tournaments are getting better every year, the level of competition is fantastic and the National team has a great record in World Competitions.

AAU has been a great help to me as a rink owner, they provide excellent player and rink insurance along with the opportunity to have my club fall under their 501C status. Yes, this has benefited me financially. AAU recognized that if the rinks don’t make it financially, then manufactures can’t make it and then inline hockey players will have fewer places to play and a poorer choice of equipment.

USARS and AAU have initiated an inline hockey coaching program for which. I have put on many coaching seminars along with Rob Chornamud. Rob has coached many USARS world championship gold medal teams, in addition to many national championship teams.
Jeff Prime originated this Coaching Program and his credentials include many World Championship gold and silver medals for the USA Woman’ Teams, as well as many national championship victories.

Also involved in this program of USARS and AAU are Ben Frank who has played with both Team USA and Team Canada and coached many national teams; and Ken Murchison, who as a rink owner has had one of the strongest clubs in the country with the Bulldogs and Jr. Ducks. This is a very qualified and dedicated group and yes there is great reluctance in the roller hockey coaching & referee community to become CERTIFIED. Yes it is needed as a bona fide credential and for the legal protection of parties concerned, including coaches and refs. And yes, it will take lots of time to get implemented by everyone.

USARS/AAU is putting into effect its referee certification program. If you take out checking and fighting (which have no place in roller hockey in my opinion) all the rules are almost identical whether it is USARS, AAU, USAHIL, NARCh, Torhs, State Wars etc. That is because the roots of the inline hockey game were formulated decades ago when the roller hockey game was originated on quad skates by USARS.

Every rink owner in the country knows that one of the best ways to get new grass roots players into the sport is by distributing flyers throughout the schools in their area. In most cases you need the 501C affiliation with which USARS/AAU has been a great help in gaining us access.

So my question to RHA is what are you doing? You all put on great tournaments and charge a lot for them. Last year I grossed only $220,000 at my rink for which I pay rent, insurance, employees, etc.etc.and I am usually there 5 or 6 days a week. The Winternationals coming up with 125 teams at $750-800 each is almost $100,000 over a couple of weeks, also with expenses.

I have talked with officials of USARS, the NGB of Roller Hockey, and they have assured me there are no current conversations or negotiations ongoing between USARS and the RHA. The RHA has received a response from the president of USARS relating to Daryn Goodwin’s unacceptable proposal, the essence of which sought to have the Inline Hockey NGB status of USA Roller Sports be de facto transferred to RHA. This proposition was rejected, and no further conversations along these lines are deemed by USARS to be either appropriate or necessary.

If everyone with RHA truly wants to create unity and education in the sport why don’t they all sanction their events with AAU understanding that most likely they will not be able to provide any better insurance for the player than AAU does now and the players will truly only need one insurance card. RHA could be a great help with ongoing development and implementation of the coaching and referee certification along with the grassroots and Team USA efforts that are in place.

I do believe that true unity in our sport would give us a much better chance of getting roller hockey into the Olympics, which is my goal and that to me is the goal we should all be shooting for.

It seems like a simple solution to me, so please tell me what I as a rink owner, manufacture, player and coach I am missing?

Joe Noris

[ACCCT2]

Man, the advertising business must be super slow right now!

ACCCT2 has circled 10 times now saying the exact same things. “Non-transparent, non-accountable, non-inclusive, non-responsive, non-democratic start.” Take the non out of every one of those words and you have exactly what I’ve been wasting my time telling you every post. If you haven’t figured it out yet, you probably won’t and I’ll stop trying.
If we’re going to continue to talk about RHA, something new…..please!

At the end of the day ACCT2 does not believe that RHA will work. Cool, no biggie. Fact of the matter is that I’m sure he’s never played in any of our events or spends much time in a rink so is really unaware of who we are or what we do anyway, outside of what he sees on the internet.

Quickdry, FIRS is a poor example. They’ve been around forever and inherited the sport of roller hockey due to the fact that they’re the NGB of all things on wheels. They have been involved in ball and cane years before the sport we know evolved. One of their problems is that they’ve been detached from what is really happening in the sport. They’re the NGB and they don’t even have an employee that is a full time roller hockey person. To their credit, they’re finally realizing this and hoping to make some changes, which is a step in the right direction.

I do agree with you though, getting a good start is important. We have the right people involved here and I’m not going to spend my time elaborating beyond what I already have to people that have no interest in helping the sport and just love to argue.

ACCCT2, since you’re the “30 year ad guy” as you’ve also pointed out a million times, please share some of your ad work. If you can show that you were successful in anything in life, maybe you would gain some credibility. We know that you’ve done zero in this sport, but something somewhere would be a start. With your vast ad experience, and your passion for the sport, who knows, maybe RHA can hire you to help us with some of our campaigns?

I know, I know. You don’t have to show us anything to feel important and you’re way too busy with your million-dollar roller hockey euro fantasy dream. Maybe you can get pigs to fly over the rink during intermissions! If it comes down to only needing one big sponsor, call Advil! After dealing with you I’m sure they’d see the value in a sponsorship!

And to someone else’s point about calling on the phone, this is still a great way to communicate. If you’re a keyboard killer or text machine, good for you. But a phone call is more personable, tone of message is clear, and is more efficient. On the phone, as you answer questions, new questions arise. 1 phone call takes care of 10 emails or posts.

Thanks to all who have been so supportive! There are 10 of you to every negative person. You recognize the need for some things to happen in our sport and that’s what we’re doing. If you want to help, reach out and we’ll see how we can do some positive things together.


Only when one strikes a nerve do you get inexplicably angry, immature and defensive rants like this one. I'd say those who are asking simple questions and bringing up logically correct points and/or "control" issues have a LOT more to worry about than just being "1 degree off" with "captains" like this at helm of your ("certified"?) ship and ("mandatory"?) journey. I certainly don't have anything at all to prove to someone as know-it-all-amateur-ish and rudely unprofessional as this (hmmm, "the right people involved", eh?). And I guarantee you, Daryn -- besides most probably not being able to truly comprehend the "million-dollar" nature, clients and budgets of what I do (and have done for over 30 years), you and the RHA definitely couldn't even begin to afford me.;)



The problem is these leaders are the ones who have been the cause of the failure of our sport for the last 15 years. A bunch of failures getting together generally equals another failure. Only this time they're going to try to monopolize our sport. Thus, if this goes under, we're back at square one. I'm not sure the sport can take it.


Once again, almost 100% DEAD-CENTER-RIGHT-ON with almost everything stated by "OldTimer" here (as, in all fairness, it's very abundantly clear that as businessmen, most of these RHA "leaders" are definitely not "failures").

I'll leave y'all with one of philosopher, poet and humanist George Santayana's wise little tidbits: "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[topshelf]

Joe Noris is absolutely right on with his views of the situation. All the people that he named are the real people that are trying to legitimize this great sport that many of us have been involved with for years.

The RHA serves no purpose other than taking more money from the sport before they lose their piece of the pie. And yes I do believe their piece of the pie will dwindle tremendously without the support of the rinks. Which by the way they do not support whatsoever. Running tournaments a few weeks a year in different parts of the country, all the while making large amounts of money is not benefiting the sport of roller hockey or the rinks for the future. Wake up people and get informed!

Thanks for people like Joe Noris!

[Dean Portman]

OldTimer and ACCCCT2-

You don't see where a couple of clowns coming on here and bashing their idea would get extremely annoying? Of course they are going to fire back. Its human nature to defend yourself. Right now, the RHA is an organization with ideas and a plan. In all honesty, no one on this board should have any complaint until after ALL of the summer finals, as no one can see anything that the RHA has done yet. Its not like you two (OldTimer and ACCCCT2) boycotting NARCh, TORHS, State Wars, PIHA, USA Clinics, NAYRHL, and NIHA-Canada matters to anyone. Its not even a dollar lost because neither of you participate in any of the above organizations anywhere outside of this message board anyway.

[ACCCT2]

Joe Noris is absolutely right on with his views of the situation. All the people that he named are the real people that are trying to legitimize this great sport that many of us have been involved with for years.

The RHA serves no purpose other than taking more money from the sport before they lose their piece of the pie. And yes I do believe their piece of the pie will dwindle tremendously without the support of the rinks. Which by the way they do not support whatsoever. Running tournaments a few weeks a year in different parts of the country, all the while making large amounts of money is not benefiting the sport of roller hockey or the rinks for the future. Wake up people and get informed!

Thanks for people like Joe Noris!

BULLSEYE!!!:eek:

[Daryn G - NARCh]

Joe,

Sort of silly we live a half-hour away from each other and a message board is how we now communicate.

Let me start of by recognizing that I believe your intensions are true and you really just love the sport but also have decided to making a living in it. However, you’ve been sucked into this a bit since you are now the Coach of Team USA and are one of the rinks of WIHA. As per your website, you also charge $35 for a AAU Membership when we all know the true cost is not that. I don’t even blame you for this, but I doubt your customers are aware of this.

For those of you that are unaware the “RINKS” in So Cal decided not to continue to sell rink time to Pacific Cup, which is why Pacific Cup is out of business. In addition, one of the guys mentioned in Joe’s post then went around bragging to everyone that would listen “Pacific Cup is down, NARCh is next!” Collusion at it’s finest and something that is probably going to be easy to prove in court if it comes to that.

If you polled anyone in So Cal and asked if WIHA is better than Pacific Cup was, the response would be overwhelming in favor of Pacific Cup. The website for WIHA has not been changed since the day the series was started, over a year. If they offered a better product then that would be a different story. You may read this and think I want WIHA to fail. If so, you couldn’t be more wrong. I want people playing and I really don’t care what they’re playing in as long as they don’t turn their backs on NARCh. I even helped develop teams last year and encouraged them to play in WIHA, which they did! Imagine that, forming teams to play in events that are ran by some of the exact people that have been trying to put me out of business! Let's hear that spin on that one.

Back to Joe. Your rink is not doing great, or at least not as good as you would hope it could be doing. You rely heavily on high school, adult leagues, and session skating. I’m not certain but I’ve heard that your youth program is non-existent and you have no travel teams. Back to WIHA, you’ve leaned on those teams to come down and support your rink for tournaments that you host but you haven’t given yourself a fighting chance. People in Orange County aren’t going to travel down to your rink to play the same teams that they would play in their nicer home rink. If you developed a travel program, did some extra things at your rink like outside bbq’s or special things to make your tournament special, then it might be a different story. It’s a tough sell for the WIHA people to convince teams to come down, as I’m sure you’ve seen.

If the flyers in the school are working, then you wouldn’t be in the unstable situation that you are. New young kids would be coming in and you would have an opportunity to start youth programs and could branch out from there. You need to do more than that, because what you’re doing isn’t working that well.

Regarding USARS, you should check your sources. Call the leaders of USARS directly, not via AAU. It’s nice that the communication door has been opened and they want to be involved with the whole sport. Not sure what will come of it.

On a local front, I’ve set up a meeting with 4s Ranch, Escondido, and Tri City to talk about inter league play and other things that can help on a very local and grassroots level. For those that you don’t know, they’re either non-profit or city owned. Joe, you’re welcome to join us. I recognize the need for rinks to be successful, as I’ve posted numerous times. It really doesn’t matter to me if you’re sanctioned by AAU, you can stay that direction and I’d still like to see you be successful.

ACCCT2, can’t believe you still have my attention. Anyway, the irony is that so many of your posts, fears, and innuendo’s about the RHA describe exactly what happened in So Cal. A guy that made a living at the sport for 15 years and offered a great product and service to so many is now out of business. Ask the players in So Cal if the sport is better for that.

[ACCCT2]

ACCCT2 has circled 10 times now saying the exact same things. “Non-transparent, non-accountable, non-inclusive, non-responsive, non-democratic start.” Take the non out of every one of those words and you have exactly what I’ve been wasting my time telling you every post.

OK -- a "transparent, accountable, inclusive, responsive, democratic start" -- done. Now, show me exactly where I'm wrong about the "non" part and "haven’t figured it out yet", as simply saying so doesn't make it "so" (remember, you're talking to an 30-year ad-guy here, expert at "bs" detection/generation)?



And to someone else’s point about calling on the phone, this is still a great way to communicate. If you’re a keyboard killer or text machine, good for you. But a phone call is more personable, tone of message is clear, and is more efficient. On the phone, as you answer questions, new questions arise. 1 phone call takes care of 10 emails or posts.

And just "1" well-thought-out-detailed-&-written press release, forum-post or website takes care of literally tens-of-thousands of legitimate questions, issues and maybe even unexpoited 'partnering' opportunities -- and would do so on an ever-constant 24/7 basis. Hmmm..."more personable" personal service is a really great thing in almost any instance of doing business, but not really cost effective in getting a basic "first-impression" mass-market message (and "mission statement") out to the masses -- but I guess you expect that we all see and agree that you alone know a LOT more about truly effective mass-media marketing ("101") than anyone, eh Daryn?:eek:

[Hockeydevil29]

Mr. Noris

Thank you for bringing up the rinks and AAU's involvement with them. I have a close friend who runs a rink, he was contacted last year by members of AAU asking him to switch to their insurance. My friend had been using USA Hockey insurance but told AAU he was considering changing but probably to their own private one. The sales pitch he was given by AAU to switch to their insurance was the following perks:
Our insurance is better than USA Hockey's : this may be true

You can still charge your customer the $30 they are used to paying but we will sell it to you for $12 or $14 and you can make EXTRA money off of your customers without them even knowing! : hey at least their honest

We can set you up as a non-profit so you can make MORE money : funny!

We know you coach some travel teams, we would love to have you coach one of our youth TEAM USA teams : unbelievable

So Joe and others, please don't talk about how great AAU is and how they are all so great. Everyone who has ever dealt with them knows they do make deals behind closed doors with everyone they are involved with.

And Joe finally, I don't know who you are but by your resume you sound like an experienced hockey person, please don't sell the JO summer natl's as some fantastic event. My kids have been there and to all of the others and you can't compare. If you polled any family whose been to ALL of the natl's out there , I bet most of not all would rank JO's as one of the worst run of them all. Don't ask the ones who benefit, just ask the average coach, player, or parent who goes to them all because like me the love this game, you will see what the response is. Last summer our team found out when we were playing our games, the NIGHT BEFORE the national tournament started! Are you kidding me?? I'm sure you will have a lot of fun convincing all of your CA people to come back east again this year for that show again. Good luck!

[TylerSollberger]

The problem is these leaders are the ones who have been the cause of the failure of our sport for the last 15 years. A bunch of failures getting together generally equals another failure. Only this time they're going to try to monopolize our sport. Thus, if this goes under, we're back at square one. I'm not sure the sport can take it.

And if I have to put up with ******* comments by people like Daryn because we bring up fair criticisms, you can see exactly where this organization is going: backwards.

Really? Who has made the sport fail? You wouldn't even know what the sport was if it wasn't for Greg Gawrys and Ron Bielsten here in Stl. They have been a key contributor to growing our sport in Stl and will make Torhs a great event. Hve you ever been to a State Wars event? They run what may be the most organized and exciting event in the country. I have never seen anything like their awards ceremony. You played in the college league for a long time. What have they done but help our sport? I haven't seen PIHA throughout the nation, but it continues to get better each year in the midwest. Narch continues to be a leader of excellence in our sport. I have never been around a tournament that is so precise. Daryn is on top of everything that happens at that tournament. Have all of these people made money? Yeah, but so what. They have all helped grow our sport. What have any of these people done to hurt our sport? Please give me examples.

How is your criticism fair? Their organization is 10 days old. By the way, what have you done to help the sport lately? How do you have an opinion of organizations that you haven't played in at least the 3 years that I have been involved with them? (Other than NCRHA) I am not trying to rag on you, but you have a pretty bitter opinion for someone I haven't seen at a hockey rink in about a year. Like Dean said, if people bash what your business and your pashion is for a living, you would defend yourself too.

[DCbullets14]

HockeyDevil29

I would agree with you that last years JOs were completly unorganized however after playing in AAUs east coast winter nats I was very impressed with some of the changes they have made. The schedule was awesome for us which was surprising since our players were playing on multiple teams and some also had a 6 hour block where they were unable to play because of AIHL commitments. The tournaments was well run and organized. I cannot speak for all levels of play but i felt that games in Junior and Mens were all very competitive. The most noticable aspect of this tournament was the quality of officiating. The games were all very physical but clean and exciting.

I attended JOs Narch and Torhs last year and it is true that Daryn runs the best tournament. I think that what he accomplishes year after year is simply incrediable. With people like Daryn at the head of RHA I have no doubt that this will be a success.

To be honest I hope that the people behind the RHA are making some money off this endeavour because if they are making money there is no doubt that they will continue to explore ways in which they can better the sport.

One recomendation I have for the people involved with this alliance is that they look at the way they run their Winater Nationals program. It is unnecessary to have 3 or 4 different east coast winter nationals each run by a different program. Instead each of the members in this group should hold a tournament in one area of the country... this will increase the number of entrants at each tournament which makes the tournaments far more fun.

For everyone who has been nothing but negative towards this organization I think you all should stay the course that you are on go purchase your USAHIL and see how far it gets you. Enjoy reading your ice hockey magazine while everyone else participates in the great events that will be held this summer.

[Mtour71]

I have been to AAU and there is absolutely NO ATMOSPHERE! I did hear that they made a new division over night while the tournament was still going on. I know problems do erupt and somehow you need to find a solution quickly but I just think that is very unprofessional. Sure they want to make the customer happy but at the same time you need stay strong and put your foot down. That is why NARCh is so successful. There is no BULL with Daryn. Your either in or your out and there are no favorites. I'm trying not to rip on AAU here but that is no way to run a tournament. Sure you can nit pick at any tournament but you won't see NARCh, Torhs, or State Wars changing divisions during a National event or regional for that matter.

[ACCCT2]

I have been to AAU and there is absolutely NO ATMOSPHERE! I did hear that they made a new division over night while the tournament was still going on. I know problems do erupt and somehow you need to find a solution quickly but I just think that is very unprofessional. Sure they want to make the customer happy but at the same time you need stay strong and put your foot down. That is why NARCh is so successful. There is no BULL with Daryn. Your either in or your out and there are no favorites. I'm trying not to rip on AAU here but that is no way to run a tournament. Sure you can nit pick at any tournament but you won't see NARCh, Torhs, or State Wars changing divisions during a National event or regional for that matter.

We're not talking about the "atmosphere", quality or qualifications of the NARCh, TORHS, State Wars, etc., events or owners -- we're talking about foolishly allowing (sorry, Daryn) an arrogantly non-transparent, non-accounatble, non-inclusive, non-responsive and non-democratic cartel-ish cabal of for-profit businessmen attempting a "coup d'état" on the various offical (read: NGB) "mandatory/certification" controls of our sport by sweet-talking us all into letting them have exclusive un-tethered and unfettered "control" of our game and its extremely critical "mandatory/certification" infrastructure, and hence, it's financial and (NGB) sponsorship "pie" controls as well -- it's that simple.

[Mtour71]

There events alone got me hooked to their RHA...Very professional and Organized. It's all about product. THEY HAVE IT!

[tommy]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but what it comes down to is that it costs $30. $30, really. If everyone is complaining about an $18 increase in insurance (or whatever the increase is), then there really must not be anything that wrong with it. If you can't afford an extra $18 per year in insurance/etc., you should be working, not playing roller hockey. Honestly, think about what you're saying.

[Daryn G - NARCh]

ACCCT2......I mean Mr. Kramer. You promised no more of all the NON-this and that talk. That makes about 11 now.

Now that we know you, didn't you used to be tied in with TORHS? Being from Michigan and all? Since you're about 50, you really that involved in all this? Still play? Really?

[ACCCT2]

ACCCT2......I mean Mr. Kramer. You promised no more of all the NON-this and that talk. That makes about 11 now.

Now that we know you, didn't you used to be tied in with TORHS? Being from Michigan and all? Since you're about 50, you really that involved in all this? Still play? Really?

I don't ever recall revealing who I am here, never "promised" anything, never had anything to do with TORHS and don't recall being "from Michigan", so you'll just have to keep guessing, eh?;)

[Daryn G - NARCh]

Or I can ask your twin brother Tim.

[ACCCT2]

Or I can ask your twin brother Tim.

And who would you be getting such presumptively accurate info from -- go ahead, "ask" away, dude, I'm quite sure that "Tim" (whoever he is) will deny knowing who I am.:cool:

I must've really struck a really raw nerve with you, eh? Go ahead, keep trying to 'out' me, I trust in Richard and Mike's integrity on this one.;)

[PGHhockey]

Some of you are so naive.

Some of you think you're on to something to dig up dirt, but you have no idea.

Some of you, I'd give you $30 to cover your membership of choice just to get you to shut up.

Find me one business, profit or non-profit, in America that has a squeaky-clean record. Not only as a business, but all of its owners, employees, etc. Good luck.

Nobody in roller hockey is exempt from this. Collusion happens. Back-door deals happen. People do things to intentionally harm their direct (and indirect) competitors.

And - SUPRISE - everyone's guilty of something here. Some people have the guts (or stupidity, however you look at it) to man up to it, others don't.

Personally, I have no vested interest in any of these entities (USAHIL, AAU, RHA). I'll never be good enough to play in NARCh. Keith won't be beating down my door to coach Team USA anytime soon. I'll never skate well enough to ref a PIHA weekend. Already been there and done that with the whole college thing. I'll just keep coaching my NAYRHL team, officiating my house-league adult games, and playing in Madden's local tournaments. And I'll pay whatever is charged by whichever "governing body" and I'll get whatever certification I need to get.

Someone from RHA has reached out and contacted me and we had a good discussion. I'm going to help out in a very small role.

Someone from AAU has reached out and contacted me and we had another good conversation. He knows I'm always here to help out in whatever role I'm needed.

Do we need everyone to come together? Yes.
Will there be sacrifices involved for everyone? Yes.
Is there a lot of collusion going back MANY years that may not ever be exposed? Yes.

The big question is: do you care enough?

If you do - give all the organizations a chance. Pick the one you like the best, and that offers both you AND the game a chance to succeed - and give them all you got.

[ACCCT2]

Some of you are so naive.

Some of you think you're on to something to dig up dirt, but you have no idea.

Some of you, I'd give you $30 to cover your membership of choice just to get you to shut up.

Find me one business, profit or non-profit, in America that has a squeaky-clean record. Not only as a business, but all of its owners, employees, etc. Good luck.

Nobody in roller hockey is exempt from this. Collusion happens. Back-door deals happen. People do things to intentionally harm their direct (and indirect) competitors.

And - SUPRISE - everyone's guilty of something here. Some people have the guts (or stupidity, however you look at it) to man up to it, others don't.

Personally, I have no vested interest in any of these entities (USAHIL, AAU, RHA). I'll never be good enough to play in NARCh. Keith won't be beating down my door to coach Team USA anytime soon. I'll never skate well enough to ref a PIHA weekend. Already been there and done that with the whole college thing. I'll just keep coaching my NAYRHL team, officiating my house-league adult games, and playing in Madden's local tournaments. And I'll pay whatever is charged by whichever "governing body" and I'll get whatever certification I need to get.

Someone from RHA has reached out and contacted me and we had a good discussion. I'm going to help out in a very small role.

Someone from AAU has reached out and contacted me and we had another good conversation. He knows I'm always here to help out in whatever role I'm needed.

Do we need everyone to come together? Yes.
Will there be sacrifices involved for everyone? Yes.
Is there a lot of collusion going back MANY years that may not ever be exposed? Yes.

The big question is: do you care enough?

If you do - give all the organizations a chance. Pick the one you like the best, and that offers both you AND the game a chance to succeed - and give them all you got.

Once again, Bill -- GREAT CALL!!!;)

[Berry_Bramble]

See Vio, I was going to think about retiring this year, but on that note, my last game will be one of yours at NARCh finals this summer

I will wait until one of your teams gets into a final (wait maybe that wont happen) and I'll toss you out, that will be the highlight of my career...then I'll retire...no no wait maybe I can do it in two games at Finals....lol

Love ya man

Don't make me send the 6u and 8u's after you. If we make it to any of the finals....game on :)

[Berry_Bramble]

Joe,

Please tell me you where at JO's in PA this past summer. You can not compare there nationals to either NARCh or State Wars. I am not even talking talent here. I am talking purely on how well run the events are.

NARCh or State Wars won't promise what they can't deliver. They also won't promise you a coaching spot in an all-star game just to get you to the event.

This quickly turned into AAU vs RHA which in the past was AAU vs USAHIL when Ellis had sealweenies up and running.

I find it funny though how people can bash one over the other when they only support one and not the other.

Just because they run a tournament series does not mean they are un-qualified to be doing this.

Everyone has been throwing around the word 'Grass-Roots'. I just wish someone would step up and actually do something with the word instead of just using it.

NAYRHL has the idea but I still think any youth hockey outside of house leagues should be in a tournament style format like Pacific Cup was and Timmy had the Eastern Challenge going on here in NY NJ and PA.

[SlammHockey]

I wonder if I can delete a thread that I started........Richard is that possible?

As I have mentioned on our webpage (http://www.slammhockey.com), I respect all of the work that Daryn, Tim and Charlie have put into the sport of inline hockey. NARCh and Statewars are the two best tournaments that are out there right now and Charlie has put his time and life into growing the game of inline hockey. I personally don't agree with the merging of all of these organizations to start the RHA, but that is my opinion and it doesn't have anything to do with the people starting it, but more to do with the lack of knowledge of what they are going to do and that it seems with these organizations working together it could start to create a monopoly in inline hockey. We have been going in this downward spiral for the past 10 years and with USA Hockey and USARS turning their backs on the inline hockey players, we have lost a great deal of support in this inline hockey community. I thnk that if you read into the posts of many of the people on this board, it does come down to trust and motives of the sport not the people that are directly involved.

This thread (I take full responsibility since I started it) is exactly what is currently wrong with the sport. We have 100 different views just on this forum and if you are for the RHA than one person says that you are an idiot and if a person is against the RHA than they are cheap and closed minded.

No matter what our views are with this sport, we need to use constructive critism and suggest solutions to grow the sport, not tear it down. The numbers seem to be dwindling on an annual basis and name calling and blatent disrespect don't help our cause out at all.

SlammHockey (http://www.slammhockey.com)

“One man may hit the mark, another blunder; but heed not these distinctions. Only from the alliance of the one, working with and through the other, are great things born.”

[AJ Barnett]

I wonder if I can delete a thread that I started........Richard is that possible?

Go to the thread....click thread options at the top of the screen and select delete thread.

[ACCCT2]

I wonder if I can delete a thread that I started........Richard is that possible?

As I have mentioned on our webpage (http://www.slammhockey.com), I respect all of the work that Daryn, Tim and Charlie have put into the sport of inline hockey. NARCh and Statewars are the two best tournaments that are out there right now and Charlie has put his time and life into growing the game of inline hockey. I personally don't agree with the merging of all of these organizations to start the RHA, but that is my opinion and it doesn't have anything to do with the people starting it, but more to do with the lack of knowledge of what they are going to do and that it seems with these organizations working together it could start to create a monopoly in inline hockey. We have been going in this downward spiral for the past 10 years and with USA Hockey and USARS turning their backs on the inline hockey players, we have lost a great deal of support in this inline hockey community. I thnk that if you read into the posts of many of the people on this board, it does come down to trust and motives of the sport not the people that are directly involved.

This thread (I take full responsibility since I started it) is exactly what is currently wrong with the sport. We have 100 different views just on this forum and if you are for the RHA than one person says that you are an idiot and if a person is against the RHA than they are cheap and closed minded.

No matter what our views are with this sport, we need to use constructive critism and suggest solutions to grow the sport, not tear it down. The numbers seem to be dwindling on an annual basis and name calling and blatent disrespect don't help our cause out at all.

SlammHockey (http://www.slammhockey.com)

“One man may hit the mark, another blunder; but heed not these distinctions. Only from the alliance of the one, working with and through the other, are great things born.”

Another BULLSEYE!!!;)

[ECHOHockey]

Joe,
Everyone has been throwing around the word 'Grass-Roots'. I just wish someone would step up and actually do something with the word instead of just using it.


We have had a "Grass Roots" series for years. Or should I more accurately say, several years ago we started running "Grass Roots" events and divisions. Unfortunately they have been very difficult to run the past few seasons.

-We have found that many "house" teams are reluctant to sign up because they feel they will be playing "travel" teams. Or, they aren't even in the mindset of playing "tournament hockey"

-Grass Roots teams (sometimes) have an unreasonable expectation that the events should be cheaper. That would be nice...and trust me, it isn't out of desire to line our pockets. We realize where the future of our sport is. The problem is that officals, rink time, awards, travel expenses, staff payroll, etc. all essentially cost the same whether it is a 8U house team or a 18 & Under Platinum division. Okay, well the officials may cost a little more, the rest would be the same.

Maybe the breakdown is just in communication between the tournament series and the rink management. Perhaps both sides need to work harder in the future to make these "grass roots" efforts a success.

As a kid I played rec inline for something to do in between ice seasons...after I stepped up and played in my first tournament I was hooked. I wanted MORE! We just need more kids to get the tournament experience and I think the addiction would feed the growth we seek.

[StateWarsDir]

Echo

You are right about the grass roots and the younger kids. We do desperately need them to get started in this game. The two biggest barriers to getting new young kids involved in roller hockey are EDUCATION and COST.

By education I mean that many young players parents do not even know about our game or its potential. Hockey is not our national pastime, many dads have never played hockey. Roller hockey is not played in gym class in most schools, most schools do not "support" their "school teams" at the junior and high school levels. All of these things are sad but true. Had the local outdoor roller hockey rink had not been 5 minutes from my house growing up and easy for me to skate to on my own, I never would've gotten into this great game. My parents knew nothing of hockey (still don't) and were unaware of anything having to do with the sport. Signing me up for little league baseball and soccer was an automatic though! So we NEED to educate young parents and potential players about our game and about the local leagues in our community

Cost is the next biggest barrier. We all know that hockey, because of the equipment is probably the most expensive sport out there. Most parents wouldn't have a problem spending $500 on equipment and $150 for the league fee, if they knew that there 7 year old was going to love the sport and stick with it. But all of us who have kids know how kids are, they change their minds constantly and try something and then quit it. So most parents would rather buy a pair of cleats or buy a baseball glove, its cheap and painless. What parents don't know, that we all know is that almost every kid who goes on that rink with his skates on and a stick in their hand is going to LOVE this game. How could they not, they get to skate around and swing a weapon at other kids and be allowed to do it! :) Seriously though, the majority of kids will want to stick with it. So they KEY for all of us is to cut down that barrier and get that horse to drink the water for the first time. How do we do that? In my opinion we need rink owners nationwide to not worry about making money off of these first timers, they need to look at the BIG picture. Let each first timer play for free. Let them play for free if the buy the equipment in your proshop. Let them pay at the end of the season if they stick with it and like it. Any of these ideas are a start. Also we need to get sponsors to help get some equipment into the rinks that these newbies can borrow and see if they like it. (they do this in ice hockey! and I believe the San Jose rink does it as well and its my understanding that they have a great young program there!). All of these things are common sense.

Even on the tournament end we can help out, granted we don't get the newbies to the sport as potential players but we do get newbies to tournament hockey. New players parents don't want to travel, spend a lot of money and lose each game 8-0 in 5 minutes and go home, and I don't blame them. Last year at our Winter Wars event in PA, we decided to make the 8under division half price, we would up having 6 teams in that division. We were the only winter event on the east coast (out of 3) to have an 8under division, it could be coincidence but I think not. The cost factor was a big part of it. Now this year I noticed that other tournaments are doing the same, that is progress for our sport!

It doesn't matter who did it first or whose idea it was, all that matters is the end result. Lets get more new kids in the sport.

My last comment on the subject, I promise. The other day I was having this same conversation with Jason Muro. Jason is a close friend of mine and the head coach of the Black Ice teams on Long Island. He is one of the best coaches in the sport and hugely successful at the highest levels. He told me that next season, he is starting an 8under team out of Rapid Fire Arena. He doesn't care if they're great skaters, average players, or just starting out..fact is he will start a team. I told Jason, just think if one coach in every rink in this country did the same thing..we would have a ton of 8under teams playing next year and guess what those kids will only get better and better. That is how we can begin to turn this thing around, or at least one way!

Ok I've said way too much tonight. Good night!

Tim McManus

[Berry_Bramble]

We have had a "Grass Roots" series for years. Or should I more accurately say, several years ago we started running "Grass Roots" events and divisions. Unfortunately they have been very difficult to run the past few seasons.

-We have found that many "house" teams are reluctant to sign up because they feel they will be playing "travel" teams. Or, they aren't even in the mindset of playing "tournament hockey"

-Grass Roots teams (sometimes) have an unreasonable expectation that the events should be cheaper. That would be nice...and trust me, it isn't out of desire to line our pockets. We realize where the future of our sport is. The problem is that officals, rink time, awards, travel expenses, staff payroll, etc. all essentially cost the same whether it is a 8U house team or a 18 & Under Platinum division. Okay, well the officials may cost a little more, the rest would be the same.

Maybe the breakdown is just in communication between the tournament series and the rink management. Perhaps both sides need to work harder in the future to make these "grass roots" efforts a success.

As a kid I played rec inline for something to do in between ice seasons...after I stepped up and played in my first tournament I was hooked. I wanted MORE! We just need more kids to get the tournament experience and I think the addiction would feed the growth we seek.

I sort of meant AAU or USAinline but ok.