End the Forums Section for Good?

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

I'm on the verge of just shutting down Forums. I'm not a babysitter, and I can't watch the message boards 24 hours a day. Shutting down Forums would likely cut IHC's traffic down, making the site less valuable to advertisers. But since many IHC readers have alienated many of IHC's former advertisers, that would probably be a wash.

I'm not going to put myself on the hook for lawsuits (the word has been bandied around, believe me) for a few immature people who damage IHC's reputation with their posts (whether they put their name on their posts or not).

You can't take a check and you call yourselves hockey players? Unbelievable.

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

Richard,

I absolutely 100% understand where you are coming from with this topic but I would like to be the 1st to ask you not to shut down the forums. When I get up in the morning and log on to my computer, IHC is one of the 1st sites that I click on when I bring up my favorites. I also check the boards after a busy night in whichever league might be playing on that given night. There are a whole host of reasons that I frequent this board...some are for enjoyment and others are for business (which is why I donated to keep IHC alive!).

I am going to suggest this. If you have some readers who view this board on average at least a few times a day, perhaps you could provide them with moderator status and, while working within some guidelines that are set by you, they could perform some of the policing and babysitting that you yourself do not have the time to do. I for one would offer my services as this website and, more importantly, this board are too important to me to let it all go away. I'm a firm believer that this could at least cut down on some of the bullsh!t by removing any posts that you would prefer not to see on your website. These moderators could also recommend that a user or users could be banned all together if they choose not to follow the rules.

Just some food for thought on a cold New England Winter evening after responding and eventually voiding that response a number of times today to a particular thread that more than likely caused you to post this topic in the 1st place.

Ruppy

[Doug Jones]

Simple, you register, you post, you identify yourself. No more hiding behind screen names and No more bull****, no more attacks. Threatening legal action is the act of a coward. People who have something to hide shouldn't post.

Anyone who threatens legal action should be banned.

I'll even put my money where my mouth is. You make users be held responsible with their user names and identities viewable when they post and we (The SC Pirates) will donate financial support to keep this board healthy. I am not asking for addresses or personal info, just that if someone decides to do something stupid or hurtful, people know who they are and the words are held accountable. Too many people can just sign up as another user and sling mud with no responsiblity and they do it.

Recklessness and cowardice don't belong on a board. People who work together to better the sport do.

Then it's productive for all of us.

[Downz39]

I agree with the previous posts. This is actually my homepage, I love to come on here and read how all my buddies back east are doing. I like the idea to have other mods police the board, and I'm not great with computers, but is there a way when people sign up, they have to be approved with their name/team affiliation visible for all to see. All the problems arise when people post without a name, obviously.

[ACCCT2]

OK kids, "Dad" has finally had enough and spoken.

Personally, I think it'd be a sad and extremely unfortunate disaster for 'virtually' everyone who both enjoys and utilizes IHC (and especially for our beloved sport) if the IHC Forums had to be shut down 'cuz of what Richard is talking about and obviously having to deal with.

I myself would like to apologize if there has ever been a time when something I may have posted might've unintentionally, unknowingly or inadvertantly caused any backlash or lawsuit threats against Richard -- I've always supported and been constantly amazed by the incredible patience, as well as extremely principled and fair editorial integrity, levity and latitude that he (and Mike B) have always shown towards all of us passionate puck-pushin' posters. I also know that he (and Mike B) work way too hard to make IHC possible for all of us. It's pretty obvious that sometimes in the heat of the moment things can sometimes get a little "intense" in the discourse and discussions, and quite frankly, they shouldn't have to be "babysitters" to any of us when a topic gets "heated" or contentious. This is where each and all of us being mature and adult and tolerant about differing opinion should take over and prevail. Expressing a differing opinion (about the game, a league, a product, or player) should NEVER have to result in thin-skinned (or obscene) name-calling, defamatory or slanderous insults or threats to either Richard or anyone else. Let's all be a little more mature, polite, patient and properly puck-postin' principled in how we all conduct ourselves, eh.

I myself will try to be even more vigilent and aware of how whatever I might post might be received or perceived by others here. And I sincerely hope you won't throw out our "baby" with the "bash" water, "Dad";)...

P.S.: I beg to differ with "Downz39's" assertion that "All the problems arise when people post without a name, obviously." -- "obviously" there have been plenty of "named" flamers, defamers, ranters and ravers NOT 'hiding' behind 'anonymity' -- in my mind, this issue all comes down to basic respect, tolerance, maturity and civility, that's it.

[Leaferguy]

I'm embarrassed for Richard a lot of the time and I don't even know him. This site shouldn't be so damn bush league in appearance because as far as I can tell and know, it's run by good people.

I think we either need to learn to calm the hell down on the internet and settle things face to face (and I don't mean throw down :rolleyes:) or just stop engaging in this crap. It does nothing good for this sport or this site, and frankly, it's become a mere matter of time for a thread to degrade into personal attacks or the same ****ing arguments over and over again.

My two cents. Take em or leave em. Honestly, if shutting the forums down is the only recourse left, I can understand that. As sad as it is, I can understand that. I appreciate what Richard has done, but I wouldn't want to log in to this as the owner.

[Doug Jones]

The lawsuit thing is ridiculous. To threaten someone with being sued because they know they are wrong is ridiculous.

I say ban anyone who threatens legal action or posts as a "Troll" to encourage fighting and stir up controversy. When new names appear to bash others in sync with other names, you can only know who the few idiots are.

[Doug Jones]

Shut 'er down. You can't risk lawsuits, and that goes double for the hilarious, mind-boggling talk from Doug Jones. "Accountability!" "I want names!" "Ban anyone who threatens to sue!" Ridiculous. Out of control. Time to shut 'er down. Not to mention the decrease in participation. I don't see this message board as justifying the time, cost, and hardship imposed on you.

Old timer your the kind of problem that causes this crap. This board lacks accountability so scum like you and your friends can post the garbage you do and not be held accountable.

Clean up the board, get rid of you and other cowards and let's get back to hockey.

Good thing your accountable for your words. Another user limited posts and of course, anonymous.

Lawsuits over words on a message board from someone hiding behind a screen name...

Wow, I guess you learn something new everyday.

[33]

Old timer your the kind of problem that causes this crap.

Good thing your accountable for your words. Another user limited posts and of course, anonymous.

i think i may have had something to do with all of this because the only post i have made in a while was today and now that thread is gone. i've been busy with my kids all night so i don't know exactly what happened but i absolutely apologize to Richard if something went down from what i said. all i did was address a statement that was very hypocritical and if this is the end result of that then it just goes to prove how much trouble this sport is really in. not allowing anonymous posts would definitely help monitor the problems on here but the troublemakers will definitely find a way around it. even though i don't play any more i still love to read the forums and hope it doesn't come to shutting them down but if that is what you have to do then it is very understandable. again, Richard, i apologize if i have caused any of these problems. you are one of the few things that are right with this sport!!!

steve yingling

[ACCCT2]

Exhibit "A": What's wrong with this post --




Old timer your the kind of problem that causes this crap. This board lacks accountability so scum like you and your friends can post the garbage you do and not be held accountable.

Clean up the board, get rid of you and other cowards and let's get back to hockey.

Doug, while I generally appreciate your sentiments and agree with you, why do you have to GEEZ, so quickly (and with such thin-skinned rancor) have to resort to such obscene and derogatory name-calling and unnecessarily insulting someone who happens to raise just as valid and considerable a point as you? In less than one (1) page you have already devolved a very serious and important issue into exactly what Richard is talking about -- and this is knowing that you obviously very strongly support everything that Richard and IHC stand for. Be an example, not part of the problem. GO PIRATES! (the name of my ice hockey team, by the way!;))

[Doug Jones]

i think i may have had something to do with all of this because the only post i have made in a while was today and now that thread is gone. i've been busy with my kids all night so i don't know exactly what happened but i absolutely apologize to Richard if something went down from what i said. all i did was address a statement that was very hypocritical and if this is the end result of that then it just goes to prove how much trouble this sport is really in. not allowing anonymous posts would definitely help monitor the problems on here but the troublemakers will definitely find a way around it. even though i don't play any more i still love to read the forums and hope it doesn't come to shutting them down but if that is what you have to do then it is very understandable. again, Richard, i apologize if i have caused any of these problems. you are one of the few things that are right with this sport!!!

steve yingling



Steve,

There's a difference. If you were to say something derogatory, you'd sign your name to it being the class act you are.

My point is the scum who just talk garbage do so because they are too cowardly to come forward and speak up using their spine.

[Doug Jones]

Exhibit "A": What's wrong with this post --



"Old timer your the kind of problem that causes this crap. This board lacks accountability so scum like you and your friends can post the garbage you do and not be held accountable."

Clean up the board, get rid of you and other cowards and let's get back to hockey.

Doug, while I generally appreciate your sentiments and agree with you, why do you have to GEEZ, so quickly have to resort to derogatory name-calling and unnecessarily insulting someone who happens to raise just as valid and considerable a point as you? In less than one (1) page you have already devolved a very serious and important issue into exactly what Richard is talking about -- and this is knowing that you very strongly support everything that Richard and IHC stand for. Be an example, not part of the problem. GO PIRATES! (the name of my ice hockey team, by the way!;))

Sorry, I don't agree. People who have something to hide like the freedom of being able to throw darts with an anonymous screen name.

I am a huge supporter of Rich Graham and his site and I've seen this sport go downhill because of trash like I said and these so called "users" who don't have the integrity to put their name to their words.

I stand behind what I said. If Old timer feels so strongly with his words, he can sign his name. Alas, he won't and it just proves my point. It's also funny that he appears after the other two got zapped earlier. Just shows the connection here.

ACCT2, don't defend people like him. They are the ones who in real life are the Ike Clanton's of the hockey world. Again, you included, if you feel so inclined to post, sign your name to your words, don't be a stranger

[ACCCT2]

ACCT2, don't defend people like him. They are the ones who in real life are the Ike Clanton's of the hockey world. Again, you included if you feel so inclined to post, sign your name

I'm absolutely not "defending" him -- I'm saying that everyone has the right to a politely stated opinion, whatever it might be -- however differing, dissenting or diametrically opposed it might be to someone else's -- and that anyone who resorts to obscenity and defamatory name-calling invariably and inevitably loses on both style-points and legitimacy in my eyes and my opinion. Why did you have to communicate your differing opinion and/or disagreement with such unnecessary name-calling and obscene insult?

And, as I generally behave myself and am no "stranger" to Richard, I don't feel in any way "inclined" to "reveal" myself simply because you deem it necessary. Richard doesn't seem to think it's an imperative, so I'm "inclined" and electing to post (respectfully and politely and civilly, mind you) as I alone choose to do so.

[Doug Jones]

I'm absolutely not "defending" him -- I'm saying that everyone has the right to a politely stated opinion, whatever it might be -- however differing, dissenting or diametrically opposed it might be to someone else's -- and that anyone who resorts to obscenity and defamatory name-calling invariably and inevitably loses on both style-points and legitimacy in my eyes and my opinion. Why did you have communicate your differing opinion and/or disagreement with such unnecessary name-calling and insult?

And, as I generally behave myself and am no "stranger" to Richard, I don't feel in any way inclined to "reveal" myself simply because you deem it necessary. Richard doesn't seem to think it's an imperative, so I'm electing to post (respectfully and politely and civilly) as I alone choose to do so.

I'll say it again one more time, a coward puts words out without being able to stand behind what he/she is saying. You're spending too much time defending someone who once again proves what I am saying is right. It isn't coincidence these people just appear after the explosion went off...it's timing and of course, a connection.

Like I said, in my eyes, your words and meaning don't mean a thing if you as a person with convictions and beliefs cannot come forward and stand behind those words.

To help this sport, we need people willing to work with each other for a common goal. We don't have that. It's the same thing. Someone posts about their league and we get the bashing and name calling.

The sad thing is when I use the word "coward" it isn't name calling, it's fact.

As far as Richard supporting you, well if that's Richard's choice, well then that's Richard's choice. Your words hold no weight with me, because to me, your a screen name who seems to be getting awful defensive over something that doesn't supposedly involve him. Again, your wasting your time explaining to me why you post as the invisible man....

[ACCCT2]

I'll say it again one more time, a coward puts words out without being able to stand behind what he/she is saying. You're spending too much time defending someone who once again proves what I am saying is right.

Like I said, in my eyes, your words and meaning don't mean a thing if you as a person with convictions and beliefs cannot come forward and stand behind those words.

To help this sport, we need people willing to work with each other for a common goal. We don't have that. It's the same thing. Someone posts about their league and we get the bashing and name calling.

The sad thing is when I use the word "coward" it isn't name calling, it's fact.

As far as Richard supporting you, well if that's Richard's choice, well then that's Richard's choice. Your words hold no weight with me, because to me, your a screen name who seems to be getting awful defensive over something that doesn't supposedly involve him.

I'm no "coward" and certainly not feeling even the slightest bit "defensive" over this one. I think the thread already speaks for itself. I haven't opined anything that calls for a "calling-out" (what, to fisticuffs?), let alone someone insinuating me a "coward" for simply choosing to post anonymously. Is anyone here the sole (and infallibly "infallible"?) adjudicator of what is or isn't "fact", especially about anything that could have numerous differing, experienced and legitimate points of view? I don't think so, eh. Your opinion is your opinion, Doug, and you are absolutely entitled to it -- just like everyone else who has either a like or differing opinion is also so entitled to their's. Certainly your opinion and posts would hold a lot more "weight" with me if they could be stated and communicated without the totally unnecessary obscenity and insult -- and that's all that I was trying to very respectfully and politely and civilly communicate.

And with that, I think that I've pretty much said all that I feel "inclined" to say about this rather important issue that Richard is unfortunately having to deal with. Let's all let our opinions be respectfully and politely posted and considered by each other, eh -- however passionately we might feel or hold them. In my humble opinion, our sport desperately needs the IHC Forums and would be severly damaged and diminished if we were to lose them, so let's all behave for "Dad" (and "big bro" Mike B), OK.

Oh, and I did notice that you've since 'bolded' the usage of the word "coward", eh...pretty petty (and meaning exactly what?) in my own humble opinion.

[Arch Enemy]

So what if people don't want to say who they are? Just ignore them if you don't like what they say. We don't need some big tough guy running around demanding names.That's part of the problem.

[Doug Jones]

Doug Jones, you are the reason this board sucks. You get all up in arms over nothing, and you go to an extreme. Even worse, you're old, so you should know better than to act like that. I don't have any qualms about anyone knowing who I am; in fact, I haven't made any effort to conceal it. And yet I'm "scum," among other things. Hilarious.

Grow up, man. You're embarrassing your club and its players.


Like someone told me when you get into an argument with an internet idiot, you can't win because you get beat with experience.

Obviously, Thomas, "you're" the internet idiot.

[Doug Jones]

I'm no "coward" and certainly not feeling even the slightest bit "defensive" over this one. I think the thread already speaks for itself. I haven't opined anything that calls for a "calling-out" (what, to fisticuffs?), let alone someone insinuating me a "coward" for simply choosing to post anonymously. Is anyone here the sole (and infallibly "infallible"?) adjudicator of what is or isn't "fact", especially about anything that could have numerous differing, experienced and legitimate points of view? I don't think so, eh. Your opinion is your opinion, Doug, and you are absolutely entitled to it -- just like everyone else who has either a like or differing opinion is also so entitled to their's. Certainly your opinion and posts would hold a lot more "weight" with me if they could be stated and communicated without the totally unnecessary obscenity and insult -- and that's all that I was trying to very respectfully and politely and civilly communicate.

And with that, I think that I've pretty much said all that I feel "inclined" to say about this rather important issue that Richard is unfortunately having to deal with. Let's all let our opinions be respectfully and politely posted and considered by each other, eh -- however passionately we might feel or hold them. In my humble opinion, our sport desperately needs the IHC Forums and would be severly damaged and diminished if we were to lose them, so let's all behave for "Dad" (and "big bro" Mike B), OK.

Oh, and I did notice that you've since 'bolded' the usage of the word "coward", eh...pretty petty (and meaning exactly what?) in my own humble opinion.


How's your major lawsuit going?

I never called for fisticuffs. I simply said be accountable for what you and anyone else say. But of course, the argument is, "I have a right to say what I want as an anonymous poster". Then of course, it's "I've been threatened or called out". Same old, same old, then it becomes, " I am going to sue IHC because people know who I am and I have a right to privacy when I attack others".

None of that ever happened. I simply said, like Silverman56, let us know who the smart asses and cowards are.

If the shoe fits, maybe you and Thomas can wear the pair together.

Thomas, this board sucks because most of "your" previous posts are either making fun of someone or making a smart ass comment. Where DO you try to help the sport grow?

Post what you want, cut and paste what you want. Threatening a lawsuit because someone's anonymous identity gets revealed is a farce and a joke.

I came on here and saw the same old crap happening again with the same old names and some more "NEW" posters once again defending these people's actions.

Thomas, it's obvious "your" motive and who "you're" involved with.

[CoachClipboard]

Richard, I certainly hope that IHC forums can continue on. I understand entirely if you feel compelled to shut them down for personal reasons and because of lack of support and cooperation from the readers/users of the forum. I will be truly sorry to see that happen and it would be a crushing blow to inline hockey everywhere, because I feel these forums may be the last bastion of hope and the main artery of communication for the sport, not to mention its life blood. You have provided for many many years, at no required expense to others a way to stay informed, give feedback (positive and negative) to those in the sport, and because of these very forums, have helped to establish many friendships that might otherwise have never happened.

I can concur and relate with Ruppy and Steve-O Ying, that I too look forward to checking the forums first thing each morning, and several times a day as one of my most enjoyable parts of the day. Your forum has brought me much enjoyment, along with the sites articles on hockey across the globe.
I dont think there is anyone here that can possibly thank you enough.

I agree with many on here as well that perhaps you should make membership to the forums a mandatory identification process to participate. Real name revealed to only those who have joined. A real email address that would only be viewed by yourself. Each person wishing to participate would pay a yearly membership fee that is reasonable, and if you wish to view or comment at all, you would need to join the forum. This would of course have many benefits. The upside would be accountability that would counter balance responsibility, the support financially that this site deserves would be two very big ones.

Again, Thank you so much Richard in everything. You are the heartbeat of this sport.

[GoJoin]

Richard, as a player, I greatly appreciate you running this forum. Thank you.

If it becomes a serious consideration to remove the forums please get in touch with me. I would be more than willing to discuss this with you.

Thanks,
Jay Stipetic

[minutemen]

Sorry to hear that Richard. I like most like to come on here and read up what is going on in the sport and stay in contact with some friends. Hope you decide to keep it. I just can't believe that people are debating and name calling on this thread. This is exactly what Richard is talking about folks,and you know who you are, just stop please. This post was to have feed back for Richard and probably the sponsors and show them how many people care. But after a few nice post, the name calling begins.

[MAmato]

I would nuke the professional boards if I were you. This sport suffers from small man's syndrome more than anything I've ever seen.

Doug Jones, I have no idea who you are. You own a PIHA team, and apparently support State Wars. Cool, good work, thank you for your support of the sport in your own way. That aside you're still acting like a gigantic baby on the internet with your tough guy talk. It's been a LONG time since I agreed with Tomy Ames about anything and the fact that you just made me agree with him makes me pretty angry.

That there's two leagues isn't the problem here, it's that parties on both sides are acting like it's their god-given right to grind their axes wherever possible in an effort to get their PRO SKUB/ANTI SKUB (http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/balamars/0PBF10060BC-Skub.jpg) voice heard, and it makes the entire sport look absolutely friggin' obnoxious and not worth the effort. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Oh, and anticipating the "I WANT ACCOUNTABILITY :frowny face at computer screen:," my name is below, I play poorly for an AIHL minor team, and I enjoy it quite a bit because of the teammates and management. If we played in PIHA or any other league, it would still be fun because the teammates would still be cool and management would still be great. Everyone seems to have lost sight of that.

Just play the damn game and leave the mindless other crap out.

[joisyan]

i think one extremely simple cure all is, if you have an issue; use the personal messaging! what do you think it's there for? leave it out of the public eye. then no one will care if Doug Jones thinks someone's a coward, because he's not portraying it in plain view. when i have an issue with someone i will tell them face to face, if it's someone that i dont see often, i will email them. if it's on this website, i PM them. is that so hard to do?

Richard Graham cant do anymore than he already does. he's the sheriff of this town. it would help if he had some "deputies," but what how would that selection come about? just because you pay a due and put your name on a signiture it gives you command to tell someone what they can and cant write? i've seen ALOT of people who arent "anonymous" write some blasphemous things.

it's out of Richard's hands. if we cant just grow up and go about things the SMART way, then it should just go away.

"You never know what you have until it's gone."

[hckypop02]

:(Richard, I enjoy the forums and like many others are on here a number of times a day. This is a great site and I would hate to see it go away. I agree if you have an issue that is directed at a SPECIFIC PERSON than by all means PM them. We all have gripes and complaints and all of us have probably been guilty of this in the past, lets move forward and as a dad of a player and involved with the NorCal Mustangs remember I/we do this for the love of the sport and the players.
GO MUSTANGS, Doug:D

[Superstar9]

wow...how did a post by Rich about the problems on the message boards and a warning of shutting them down turn into the most severe case of exactly what he was talking about? IN THE SAME THREAD?????

I mean come on....imagine you're a two year old. A Grown up says hey Johnny, this is FIRE, it will hurt you if you touch it. 10 seconds later Johnny touches it out of ignorance and gets burned but, he prolly won't touch it again because he got a warning and then felt the pain of being burnt. It's all good, he's two and he learned. I doubt that when he's an adult he's gonna try it again.

Now for some reason, same situation with adults just happened and they keep reachin into the same flame??? COME ON GUYS!

Rich, membership would prolly be the way to go. It'll solve your problems with funding and it'll probably keep the conversations pretty progressive and could likely do a lot for the sport because you'd likely on be left with the people who are on a mission for the sport and the people who like to stir the pot won't want to pay just so they can have their amusement..your call obviously but, either way, I just want to say thanks. This site has brought me a lot of opportunities over the years. THANKS!!

[icehog]

I would hate to see the forum end too.

ban the problem guys. It's a privledge, not a right to post here.

dave

[NC Mustangs]

Richard,

I would be willing to pay if you wanted to better control membership with some additional requirments to become members. This site is a double edged sword that can build up the sport or tear it down if we don't all grow up.

I come on here every day to see what's going on in the inline community regardless of where everyone chooses to play. Richard I am asking you as a friend and supporter to consult with those that want to support you in finding a better way.

Respectfully,

[zipyaj]

Richard,
Thank you for making the IHC Forum available to all of us; the subscribers and the anonymous viewers who look to this venue for information about the sport. For me, it has been a privilege to post and a pleasure to read. I am very appreciative of the valuable time and significant efforts you and Mike have put forth to maintain this valuable piece of Internet real estate devoted to the Inline Hockey community.

Like a landlord with tenants, the IHC Forum is indeed home to a community. For the most part, community members are mindful of their surroundings and respectful of others. After all, they chose to become a member of this IHC community. Many tenants are solid community members and even volunteers or leaders who strive to better the community experience for everyone. Some are drawn by affinity to the community and are in search of information - like reading the morning news - but may never write a letter to the editor or express themselves. And like most communities there are the occasional, neighborly disturbances requiring intervention, or even eviction in the extreme of cases.

It is not a perfect world, but being a member of this highly praised IHC community has many merits. I am personally proud to be a part of this community and have both high hopes for its growth and invest myself to that cause.

Thank you again for all you do in making the IHC Forum available to the Inline Hockey community.


Respect Your Neighbor. Respect Your Community. Respect The Sport!

[Alvare71]

It seems to me people are looking for a fight..........The message boards have been slow........but you really dont hear about what the teams are doing?

I dont think it will help if they show there name or not...........just set up a membership........with a monthly fee.

[CoachClipboard]

If you set membership up with a small fee payable by credit/debit card and the form to fill out to make sure it matches membership name with that on the card or name to match name of a paypal account and then require username to somehow match that same name....It is a very possible solution. I know name matching is required on many payable account sites so the options are out there. If you used someone elses credit card, family, friend, and in turn used their name? I am sure they wouldnt be thrilled with their name being spread like manure in a chatroom in a negative light.

But hey, Im just kicking it around some. If we pause to think about it, there is a way. There is always a way.

[tommy]

People are going to say whatever they are going to say, regardless of whether their name corresponds with their username or if their signature contains their actual name. For those of you wanting people to own up to what they say on the message board by including their name, then what? There's going to be a fight? What does that do?

Instead of relating everything to "whether or not it helps the sport," other things could be done. Some of these things are possibly suggesting alternate solutions or just ignoring those who are merely trying to start controversy. By arguing for the length of entire threads and taking them in a completely off-topic route, is that helping the sport. That may sound hypocritical, but think about it.

I'm sure every sport at some level or another has people that disagree with one another and create nonsensical banter similar to the banter that is on this board. That's what makes things interesting. No one wants to read forums where everyone agrees with each other. That's boring.

For what it's worth, that's what I think.

-Tommy Tuohy

[ianmackie]

i gotta ask, what did i miss? someone pm me the details.

thanks in advance.

my 2 cents, just ban IP's that don't fit what you want Richard. along with that, add a couple more moderators that you trust.

[Alvare71]

Well at our bar we 86 people all the time.......first offence 15 days so on and so on......

[CoachClipboard]

eh, it was only a suggestion. But it was a suggestion.
Ian's idea also sounds good.

[JLambertUMSL]

LOL. Post of the year.



My theory is that this is a direct result from unqualified people running our sport. From the top-down, there are extremely few qualified people running leagues, tournaments, rinks, and teams. I've often wondered what the difference is between the near-dichotomy between ice and inline hockey and the near-dichotomy between, say, indoor and beach volleyball. I still don't know what the answer is or why inline hockey has gone in a disastrous cycle, but I believe it has to do with the lack of experience, qualified people running the leagues.

Looking back at my own experience, I wasn't even remotely qualified to be a Director of Development for a nationally-governing body of inline hockey. I knew people, though, and I write well. I had good intentions on connecting potential players with clubs, and potential clubs with their regions. But I didn't have the experience necessary to truly develop a culture and relationships with other organizations. I was just a weak wheel in a broken machine.

So what will it take? Good question. I'd love to know how red-headed step-children sports such as beach volleyball, softball, and, to a lesser extent, indoor soccer (which too has been plagued in a disastrous cycle), have gained popularity and had relatively good success.

I think until inline hockey attracts top-line ice hockey officials, we're going to continue in this ridiculous fight between the AAU and USA Hockey, NARCh vs. TORHS (or whatever), State Wars vs. ?, etc. There's extremely little continuity in this sport, and it begins with a lack of respect between the owners of x and the other of x. And that, in my opinion, is due to the unqualified people who have infiltrated our sport and gained relatively high ranking positions due only to things such as owning a rink, team, being a nice guy, coaching a kid's team, used to play in college, ...the list could go on.

Someone who truly cares about inline hockey, who is qualified, experienced, and well-liked and connected, needs to research how those sister sports gained popularity. I suspect until such research happens and we stop re-inventing the wheel -- not out of necessity but out of greed and ignorance -- the sport will continue on this disastrous cycle.

I welcome others' thoughts.

Roller hockey is inbred.

The money that does exist just changes hands among the same people year after year after year and nothing changes. It all runs together. The elite teams in the sport are sponsored teams full of mercenaries with zero appeal to the general public, there is no professional version of the sport to speak of, and the spirit of the competition in the collegiate game is obliterated because it is dominated to an absurd degree by an NAIA school run by representatives of one of the handful of equipment companies that sponsor the mercenary teams that dominate the elite level, as it were.

Nobody complains, because it's roller hockey.

SUE ME!!!!!! :)

(begin self-absorbed rant)

(And speaking of college, since that's one area of competition that the general public gravitates toward in other sports because it represents something bigger, and therefore is one way roller hockey COULD gain a foothold someday...there's only one college program that's been able to remotely challenge the roller hockey establishment, without equipment ties or tournament ties or the same old roller hockey ties...just doing it the old-fashioned college way....and let me tell you, it takes outrageous, ill-advised, irresponsible, long-term, year-round personal sacrifices by people who make $0.00 a year minus the money they dump into it themselves to even make that remotely possible. I like to think I'm smart, but stupid is as stupid does, and I do a whole lot of beating my head against the wall and putting real life on hold for something that more often than not just gets scoffed at and trashed by....you guessed it....roller hockey people. But guess what? I'm not going away, and neither is UMSL. Even though our "Pro" goalie has already flunked out of school.)

(end self-absorbed rant)

[STEMM]

Richard, your post could get a record number of replys. :) Anyway...I would hate to see this site go away, IHC is my escape from the stressfullness of the challenges life throws at me everyday. I have been reading IHC for a few years, even though I only started leaving feedback in Feb 2008. I have learned a lot about this great sport of Inline Hockey here, and often recomended others to check out your site. If you do indeed cut us off it will truely be a dark day for Roller Hockey................I don't know how we got to the whole "reveal yourself / name thing", but since it's now part of this, I'll comment on that too. I don't think it really matters if you use a CODE name or not, someone could easily say thay are Mark Messier, Manny Legace, or anyone for that matter. There is no message board that makes you scan your ID ? There was even a pretty high profile FAKE myspace account that ended in Death of a young girl. So let people make of cool names for themself, I enjoy seeing some of the names people come up with.

Jason STEMMler

[quick_dry]

I agree with many on here as well that perhaps you should make membership to the forums a mandatory identification process to participate. Real name revealed to only those who have joined. A real email address that would only be viewed by yourself. Each person wishing to participate would pay a yearly membership fee that is reasonable, and if you wish to view or comment at all, you would need to join the forum. This would of course have many benefits. The upside would be accountability that would counter balance responsibility, the support financially that this site deserves would be two very big ones.
I think membership might work if this site was going gangbusters, the sorts of forums where they need the membership dues to THIN out the members per server resource (as well as to make money/pay for costs). e.g. offtopic.com. membership on a small community might work if your definition of 'work' was to keep the same group you already have, and slowly thin it out as people leave and don't renew. Where there are memberships, you get something extra (e.g. pictures for avatars, access to teh topics early - slashdot.org), but the important functionality of the site is not blocked off in any way, you can still participate fully for free.

As others have posted, I don't think a membership system would work here.

The topic of requiring names, and just how that is unworkable unless we're submitting passports plus a picture of us holding a piece of paper with a code Richard gives us, has been done to death. How many of us need to sign our posts 'Bill Gates', 'Wayne Gretzky' or 'The Pope' before the proponents of the name thing twig that the name on the post means nothing to someone trying to make mischief.

It sounds like the real problem of the posts is content, so address that directly - rather than roundabout measures like names (and name calling).

Best suggestion so far is additional moderators - hell, if you want to get close to around the clock coverage, pick people in a few different time zones.

Edit (and leave a note) troublesome posts.
Delete posts that just can't be salvaged.
Ban repeat troublemakers (don't ban IPs, it is a flawed concept).

my 2 cents,

Bill Clinton - (on behalf of Nelson Mandela)

[PGHhockey]

Richard,

I strongly believe that the only reason you're being 'blacklisted' by advertisers is because this is such a small hockey world that we live in. In the grand scheme of things, this is a small website. Mission is a small company. NARCh is a small business. USAHIL is a small non-profit.

Everyone please go look at the "comments" sections on any page on Yahoo!, YouTube, Google Finance, Perez Hilton, TMZ, or pretty much any other big website. Some of the stuff said there makes the comments on IHC look like 2nd grade playground chatter.

Do you think those sites have trouble grabbing advertisers because of what's said by the site's users in the comments section? I don't have first-hand knowledge, but I really doubt it.

Ever read a news story about Axl Rose suing Yahoo! because some idiot on the comment boards said Axl was this or that? I haven't.

So, as far as advertisers go, one can conclude that either:

A) You're having issues only because this is such a small community, and you're being unfairly singled out.

or

B) There's something more to it.

And in regard to the potential for legal action, I can't really comment because I just don't know the whole story, and because my degree is in International Business, not Pre-Law.

And with that, I'm finally gonna stop being so lazy and make my donation, regardless of the outcome.

[NLane]

The forums have been a good place to throw ideas around & get others opinions for solving the sport's problems. I don't have numbers for California people who play so phoning wouldn't help but this board let's us speak nationally to others. Please don't shut it down!

[thebenchman]

I cant believe I am agreeing with Ian.... the idea of adding some honorable moderators would take a load off of your time Richard. Tommy, I do applaude you for your comments. While Doug has and is a big supporter of the sport he too has his times of sayingsome good things. Realistically in type there are many different ways to get a point accross. in type is impossible to see the real inflection of the voice.

Richard this forum does NEED to be active, however I do understand your point. In saying that some of the people on here need to be more grown up in their responses. Name calling and threats of of suing one another is nothing more than just plain old BS! If you dont like what you read on here dont read it. Go away! We all have opinions. yours is as good as mine or the next poster. There in full is the reason our sport suffocates. We have no REAL leader. we have serveral WANNA BE LEADERS!! Just because you own this or have been playing for 30 years does NOT give YOU the right to be an internet hard ass.

Richard, Think about Ian's idea. Kudos to you!!

Roy

[PGHhockey]

I've often wondered what the difference is between the near-dichotomy between ice and inline hockey and the near-dichotomy between, say, indoor and beach volleyball.

It's because we, unfortunately, don't have this in our game:

http://www.mistyandkerri.com/pix/Misty%20May%20Cumulu-14.jpg

[ACCCT2]

Richard --

How about just having a legal waiver/disclaimer (verified upon sign-up/sign-in) indemnifying you, IHC and 'virtually' anyone who participates on the IHC Forums -- this would get you and Mike legally off the hook for being 24-7 "babysitters" of the forums and allow the full spectrum of geniuses through idiots to consistantly (and in "virtually" every way) reveal themselves through whatever they post.

[Berry_Bramble]

i gotta ask, what did i miss? someone pm me the details.

thanks in advance.

my 2 cents, just ban IP's that don't fit what you want Richard. along with that, add a couple more moderators that you trust.

I'll press your 2 cents Mr. I wish you were coming to NY. I so want to throw my shoe at you! :eek:

[uconnhockey1]

I don't like to post a lot on here, but here's my two cents...

I also feel as though these forums can be used for a lot of good. I check the forums before I will check PIHA and AIHL websites for scores, because we as a community have come to post scores and major news here first. It is a shame that random people who register on this site to stir up trouble essentially are ruining what could be a great thing for our sport.

With the state of our sport being what it is today, it would seem simple to say that "hey, we need to band together if we are going to bring this mainstream, etc."- however, it seems as though we like to bicker amongst one another- "who's the nastiest righthanded dangler in all of florida" or "rank these teams from 1-5"- these are the threads that seem to be problematic and where most of the crap on this site is generated, because SOMEONE is going to get offended and come back with a witty "yo you $uck man" or a clever "you $uck at hockey dude".

Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one, and they all stink. Whether you choose to make yours heard, that's your prerogative. If you choose to do so- expect a backlash of responses, some good, others not so good. Post here at your own risk- and if you do, be man enough to not sue someone if they tell you you stink. Everyone has been insulted at some point in their life, not everyone is going to like you- deal with it.

Richard, on a personal note, please keep the site running. Do what you have to do, because it is asinine that someone who does so much for the sport has to suffer because of the actions of others. To say that you and Mike are underappreciated does not even begin to scratch the surface. Do as you will with the site- but please try not to let the actions of a few ruin what essentially is a great thing for the rest of us in the world of inline hockey.

Dr. Chim Richalds
"I'm a doctor, you saw me, you don't remember"

No really, I'm Jesse Creek.

[-venom-]

Who knew hockey players were such Drama Queens?

Richard -

I totally don't think it should be up to you to babysit around here, but I appreciate the effort that you put into this place and the fact that you try to run a pretty tight ship. I do however, think that you would be well-served appointing a couple moderators to assist you in keeping the BS to a minimum.

As for the trolls on here....... seriously, grow up. Last time I checked, most of us were supposedly grown-ups, with a common interest in the game we love, regardless of specific affiliation with 'X' league or whatever.

Some of you need some diapers, I swear.

For the most part, I always thought that 99% of the guys on here were the type I would be able to play a game against, and then go out and grab a beer with afterwards.

Sure doesn't seem that way anymore.

[MDE3]

Hey Rich....figured I better chime in...you have provided a service for many at your own expense for a long time....kudo's aren't cutting it any more..

As you well know there will be conflicts on any board...Just read the comment section of Fox sports or any other internet sports reporting venue after any article about a game, player etc. in any sport.

Obviously there are automatic editors used therein to control language, but nothing to control spitefull/egomanic commentary...other than the "please report innapropriate comments" link.

One positive way to get readership up would be to have individuals responsible to post PIHA, AIHL, and MLRH (assuming they still exist) weekend scores asap as well as all the other tournament groups..so this would draw viewers in knowing that the scores are posted in here and people can catch up with the news of those sports. Of course for a long time it was a problem getting these up on their own websites...however if you hook up with the owner/gm's of the various teams/tournaments and have them feed you directly...I think it might help. Game articles too..many of the teams post these articles on their own websites...same deal, get them posted in here as well...helps them and increases readership.

The big question however is..do you want to keep it going...we know how much time it has required from you..and mostly thankless time...however with a good connections to all the mainline organizational scores, you could become a "clearing house" for all standings and scores...Also print the links to the various team/group websites..giving them a "quid pro quo" so to speak. With this accomplished..not that small a task I might add...then I think you would certainly get some advertisers back. Although most of the above has been done in the past..it has been on a very "ad hoc" basis, rather than a statement of policy.."we are the news for inline hockey"

The issue with advertisers is no doubt some of the "product review" posts as well as traffic levels...where although many players post honest opinions, many of those opinions are formed from a very limited exposure to these products. Why would an advertiser put up with negative commentary about their product on a board where they do not see large volumes of traffic to help market their products, and due to the reduced traffic, cannot justify having someone monitor the posts and respond to complaints directly all the time..a la "Justin" when he was with Mission. A policy for the "product review" section would be "positive product comments only", however links to the manufacturers could be given where people with complaints could air their views directly to the only people who can help. Although this might go against your concept of journalistic freedom, you can no doubt see the benefits.

For independant evaluations..use a "poll" system, where comments are invited but in the same vein....ie "puck seems to slide better on ice court" or whatever.

The sport needs a voice nd a news center, and you have been it for a long long time..I know it is a full time job, and to make it work, that time needs compensation, good luck and hopefully there can be a viable and profitable solution.

[JoesInBoston]

Richard,

As much as I enjoy reading posts here, I would have to suggest that you remove the forums. If words like lawsuits have been thrown your way then we have no business asking you to keep these forums up and running.

Oh and for those that think a lawsuit isn't possible from some words type on an internet message board, do some research:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-10-internet-defamation-case_x.htm

There is no need for you, Richard, to get dragged into something as ridiculous as that link.

At the very least, I'd suggest you shut down the Pro forums(the biggest headache forum I think I've seen as long as I've been on the internet). The PIHA and AIHL can create their own message boards as fas as I am concerned. It's amazing they haven't already.

- Joe Marinelli

[PGHhockey]

JoesInBoston -

You could have just as easily said: "Hey bro, there actually was a case in which internet message boards created a huge lawsuit - check this out."

I'm certain other people on this board probably would have had a fit and turned that comment into a war of typing. Me? Don't care. I stand corrected.

But, I'm glad I chose my words carefully...I only said I haven't heard of any such cases. Maybe a career in politics is in my future? :)

But that's a key reason why we have such fighting on here. There's a way to phrase things in writing as to not offend the recipient. Maybe JoesInBoston was being entirely cordial in his response. I certainly took it as if he were being condescending.

But, I'm certainly not going to attack him. He did his homework, he made a good point (one which made me re-think my position on the matter), and that's fine. He's probably a great guy. Come to think of it, Doug Jones, ACCT2, silverman, and everyone else that's been a target of ire might be genuinely good guys as well. A lot of people on here don't personally know each other. But, given the tone and implied voice/meaning of the typed words, people form opinions.

A lot of you probably think I'm a rules know-it-all and may think to yourself: "That guy can't even skate well enough to do a Varsity game, who the hell does he think he is?" But I'm OK with that. I do my games, manage my refs, have fun, and take home a nice paycheck.

My point to the whole thing is: there's always a way to say something that can't be misconstrued as rude, inconsiderate, or demeaning. I've taken a look back and noticed that a lot of "IHC arguments" have either been started or drawn-out because of an "iffy" comment that could have been taken the wrong way, and was, in fact, taken the wrong way.

[Leaferguy]

My point to the whole thing is: there's always a way to say something that can't be misconstrued as rude, inconsiderate, or demeaning. I've taken a look back and noticed that a lot of "IHC arguments" have either been started or drawn-out because of an "iffy" comment that could have been taken the wrong way, and was, in fact, taken the wrong way.
Some people come online to e-fight. It's like an odd stress relief to bitch out some guy on the internet because you can't act like that in regular society.

As for the waiver idea, well, it doesn't seem like that would be a fail-proof way to guard against this crap.

[quick_dry]

Oh and for those that think a lawsuit isn't possible from some words type on an internet message board, do some research:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-10-internet-defamation-case_x.htm

There is no need for you, Richard, to get dragged into something as ridiculous as that link.
good find Joe, but that case is NOT the internet forum operator going to court, it is 2 forum members - one sueing the other for defaming them. Bock posted about Scheck on a forum run by a third party.

So if i was to say "Joe is a dodgy crook, con-artist and a fraud" (example, I'm sure you're a good person and none of those things), you could take me to court for damaging your reputation - and that would be analogous to the situation in the article. Note that it isn't Richard going to court, just me and you in this example.

This would be like taking AT&T to court because of something someone did to me over the phone.

Now, assuming Richard isn't running a server out of Germany (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2421569,00.html)

then this article is more applicable:
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/court-says-message-board-operators-not-liable-for-libel



A New Jersey appeals court has ruled that the operators of online forums are notresponsible for remarks made by users of their forums, even if those remarks rise to the level of defamation.

The case centered around the “Eye on Emerson” website, which purported to keep its eye on the town of Emerson, New Jersey.

Apparently a few of Emerson’s town council members took issue with remarks posted on the Eye’s website. Most specifically, to remarks which characterized one member as a “hate mongering political boob”, and another as a “fashion violation” and “Queen of Hate”. Following the posting of the remarks, in 2001, Emerson town council members Gina Calogero and Vincent Donato sued the site’s owner, Stephen Moldow.

Interestingly, and perhaps ironically, Calogero and Donato both resigned their council positions in 2002, and the Eye site is now off line.

Be that as it may, here in 2005 the Court as ruled that Moldow is not responsible for the remarks posted by his users, ruling that Moldow is protected by the 1996 Communications Decency Act which says, in relevant part, that “no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.”

I don't know whether a later new jersye bill to make forum operators maintain a list of names/addresses of its users actually got up - I doubt it, as well practical issues there would likely be conflict with federal statutes.

Further discussion of how the Communications Decency Act applies to forums is here:
http://joshkagan.com/blog/2008/03/25/juicycampus-and-the-limits-of-section-230/

Probably the best most applicable article i found online was this:


Web Operator Not Liable for Third Party Postings Absent Some Hand in Authorship

Regardless of the control a web forum operator exerts over a site's technical features, it is not liable for content authored wholly by third-party posters, the Arizona Superior Court held Oct. 24. The court distinguished content which the operator may have had a hand in authoring, however. The court dismissed all allegations of third party-only posting, but preserved those implicating mixed authorship. Children of America, Inc. v. Magedson, 2007 ILRWeb (P&F) 2891.

I don't have a subscription to LexisNexis or any of the other case report libraries anymore, but the summary covers the key points IMO - and the case name is there for the super interested.

[JoesInBoston]

Steven, you're right. The forum moderator and owner did not get involved in that case (that we know of). I was using it as an example of lawsuits stemming from internet chatrooms/messageboards. Richard may not actually get dragged to court, but nothing positive would come from a lawsuit for him. Talk about a way to lose sponsors....

As for the context/tone of my post. I say you are right, Bill. It wasn't directed at anyone in general (after reading 4 pages of posts, I don't remember who doubted the internet lawsuits and who didn't), but there was a more constructive way to get my point across.

[Hocki]

Hey Richard,

Is there any kind of disclaimer you can use upon registration that each member has to agree to/check off? This may get you off the legal hook, provided you have the member's email address.

Of course you would also need to post your site's privacy policy stating that you do not sell/release personal information. If it came to a lawsuit you would probably have to turn over the information if it were court ordered.

Maybe something to look into... and volunteer moderators might be a good plan as well.

[NLane]

Not sure a disclaimer would help because here in VA you can't sign away the right to sue.

[AJ Barnett]

Well, with that in mind...I would like to hear people's opinions on the matter. Anyone with a background in internet law, please give your input.

The 6th Amendment of The United States Constitution states:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

So, if a person in VA sued IHC, would the trial be held in VA (the state of the Plaintiff) or in CA (the state of the Defendant)? The question came to my mind after reading this last post:


Not sure a disclaimer would help because here in VA you can't sign away the right to sue.

NOTE: I do know the correct answer, I'm just interested in playing challenging the minds of the IHC users.

[quick_dry]

I'm not 100% sure on what USA law says, but my understanding is that it depends on where the person filed the law suit.

Where you file a suit depends in some cases on what you're claiming. If it isn't Federal jurisdiction by way of claim, then the state/county the defendant resides/does business in). There is something about diversity of business locations, but can't remember it.

NLane, some places do make disclaimers worth less than the paper they're written on, so you can't sign away some fundamental rights. But, as the cases I posted earlier show, the forum operator isn't recognised as the author of the works.