San Jose Officiating

[Clever Name]

Wow. Can it get any worse? If you breathe on someone you get a penalty. The WCRHL better not be like this the entire season.

[gameking28]

Seriously. The officiating is complete crap - this isn't hockey. I'm all for calling a tight game, but they are literally making up penalties to give out. If they can't come up with anything the old standby of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" comes out. It's ok to man-up in hockey, even in a non-check league. ANY contact or near-contact is met with a hand in the air.

I hope someone from the WCRHL is paying attention to these forums because this is some of the worst "hockey" I've ever been forced to play. :mad:

[GSJaguars11]

i was playin in marple this weekend and it was the same thing, every time the puck was stolen everyone looked at the ref checking if it was a penalty

[rhhof]

Coast to coast consistancy it seems

Everyone will have to learn that skating hard and playing the puck is the name of the game at every level now....

[burrows00]

or how tying up on the face-off is now all of a sudden an interference penalty. no consistency at all between different officials and definitely took most of the fun away from the game. seemed like every team that competed can all agree.

[GoRangrHky]

My concern has always been who are we paying the officials to officiate for? In the NHL, they decided that they needed to call more penalties so that the fans would like the game more (not the case, but that's irrelevant). In CRH, they decided that they needed to call more penalties for..... :confused:

I have yet to find a person who is like "Wow, more penalties! This is awesome! NOW the games are high scoring!!" as if we had a plethora of 2-1 games all of the past few seasons that were keeping our television ratings and attendance figures too low. But now that we have more penalties every game, our franchise values will go up, the salary cap will increase, we'll be picked up by NBC, and our team owners will be billionaires!!! Watch out for the implementation of the trapezoid next season, and 6" wide goalie pads for the '10-'11 season. These 10-7 games are still too low scoring for the 18,000 we get a game.

I remember when I first started playing CRH that we were proud of the fact that this was a league of the players, for the players. It seems to be moving away from that. I'm not trying to start a revolt or anything, but we are the teams that comprise this league, and yes, the ones that pay the bills. Should we not be able to decide how we want our own games officiated??

[PGHhockey]

Should we not be able to decide how we want our own games officiated??

Excellent point to be raised...granted, I've never been to San Jose. Never officiated anywhere besides the East Coast...but here's my $0.02 anyway.

You'll never, ever, ever find any consistency among players on "how they want games to be officiated." Granted, it's no fun for anybody when a ref gets whistle-happy. But, it's even less fun when someone gets taken off on a stretcher, or someone gets involved in a lawsuit. We will forever fight the battle of finding a medium.

One guy on your team probably loves a tightly-called game because he's a 100% skill player with more speed than a Ferrari and better hands than one of the girls at your local Asian massage parlor.

Another guy on his team might be a 230-lb animal that uses his size and strength to win battles on the boards. I bet he doesn't like getting called for his rub-outs when he only knocks a guy over because he's outweighed by 60 lbs and the big boy has a 400-lb bench press.

Some guys have no regard for their bodies and think they're heading for the NHL (well, maybe a few of you actually are, kudos to you).

Other guys have a wife, kids, mortgage, 2 cars, and parents in a retirement home. You think that guy wants the refs to "let them play?"

I've come to the conclusion that this battle will never be "won" by either side. A certain percentage of players will always think we suck no matter what we do, and that's just part of the job that pays us so well.

Refs - just call the game the way it's supposed to be called. Safe, fair, and fun. That's all the players ask for.

[GoRangrHky]

I would say that it's simply the officials using their own judgment, except we all know that there is a "standard of enforcement" that is followed, especially when a ref says "that's how we have to call it this year".

As someone who played a LOT of defense in college (116 games on defense) and did not take a lot of penalties (112 minutes total) and has definitely been on the rink for many, many games (184 total) I know what is acceptable at this level and what is not. And it never seemed to be a problem before, so I don't know why last year the decision to change was made (besides the fact that USA Hockey told us to, which if that's the case, hey, a bunch of your friends are jumping off a bridge...) and an even stricter level was placed on the games this year.

You're right, players are going to think the refs suck no matter what. So if that's going to be the case, why not just call it the way it should be called instead of what some video has decided for you...

[topshelf]

I also just returned from San Jose, and agree with the earlier posts that the officiating was horrible. Every team was told that you can no longer lock up on the draw, that it would be called interference. And they were not just telling teams this they followed through and called this all tournament long. Players were also told and called for interference if they bodied up on one on ones or anywhere else on the rink. Since when in the game of hockey has someone said that being able to body up needs to be taken out of the game? The hooks and interference were called so often that you would have thought that the refs were being paid by piece work (paid by the call). If this is the direction that the league is going, they are really going to hurt the game. There was no flow to any of the games whatsoever. I can see making the calls for blatant hooks that take away clear scoring chances and incidents with clear intent to injure, which I did not see happen very often if at all. But I did see more calls than I can even begin to understand for just hard work and for playing fundamental hockey, which absolutely does not and should not constitute a penalty being called. By the way the team I'm with went 4-0, so I'm not crying foul.

Remember the officials are not supposed to decide games, but this weekend there were definitely games decided by the officiating.

[topshelf]

This is the penalty minutes for just the d1 teams for four games each.

San Diego State - 46 pims
UNLV - 46 pims
Northridge - 30 pims
Long Beach - 30 pims
UC Irvine - 36 pims
Cal Poly Slo - 52 pims
UC Santa Barbara - 44 pims

There is no way that this many calls is going to help the sport whatsoever.

What a complete joke!

[PGHhockey]

Maybe I'm misreading the post...but I have to play devil's advocate here:

If you were told about tying up on faceoffs, and bodying up on 1-on-1's, and hooking...why didn't you play within the rules that were given clearly in advance?

Or did the officials call the game differently than they said they would...?

[Clever Name]

This is the penalty minutes for just the d1 teams for four games each.

San Diego State - 46 pims
UNLV - 46 pims
Northridge - 30 pims
Long Beach - 30 pims
UC Irvine - 36 pims
Cal Poly Slo - 52 pims
UC Santa Barbara - 44 pims

There is no way that this many calls is going to help the sport whatsoever.

What a complete joke!

damn that's a lot. I was looking around other divisions and take a look at D2...Cal Poly Pomona had 88 Pims in 4 games.

[GoRangrHky]

Sorry, but them telling you how they are going to call it doesn't mean that it's right. This is turning into a field hockey game out there. Soon you're not going to be allowed to take a shot that goes more than a foot off the ground, and eventually you're not going to be able to use the back of your blade any more....

I remember 4-5 years ago when there was practically open ice hitting allowed at nationals. People thought it was a little rough, and some teams were surprised, but I would imagine that all of those teams would prefer that over what's being called now.

[rhhof]

Thats funny, this standard has been involved in NARCh, USA Hockey Inline and other USA Sponsored events over the past couple of years and I really havent heard any complaints when I attend these events

This is a black and white issue - skate hard, use your stick to go after the puck, do not play the body at all and there will not be any problems

Maybe everyone needs to pick up a copy of the USAIL rule book...better yet, no one reads a book anymore - just go to www.usahockey.com and look at the standard of play video and figure it out quick.....The rule enforcement has been in place for a while now - Don't you guys watch the NHL, everybody is doing it - Thats the game now a days...skill and speed, you dont have any, get some quick...sorry

[Clever Name]

Maybe I'm misreading the post...but I have to play devil's advocate here:

If you were told about tying up on faceoffs, and bodying up on 1-on-1's, and hooking...why didn't you play within the rules that were given clearly in advance?

Or did the officials call the game differently than they said they would...?

can't be true for everyone because i was not told beforehand how the games would be called.

[alex]

(For the record, I was not in San Jose this weekend but will be playing in the WCRHL the rest of the year...)

If we can't tie up on the faceoff...fine. Sounds stupid, but if the other guy can't do it either, I guess that's no big deal.

Hooking and general use of the stick being called a lot? Okay fine, there will still be complaints but oh well...

But, if like someone said, players were being called for 'bodying up one-on-ones or anywhere else on the rink' that's an absolute joke. I don't care what some USAHIL video says, that's not hockey. I don't want to hear about how this crackdown has been going on for a while now...on stickwork yes, but bodying people off the puck? No. That's not called at NARCh, hell that was't even called at USAHIL Cup this year where they still have asinine rules like a 10 minute for ANY high sticking penalty.

[quick_dry]

Thats funny, this standard has been involved in NARCh, USA Hockey Inline and other USA Sponsored events over the past couple of years and I really havent heard any complaints when I attend these events
i sounds as if they're calling it the way FIRS has been pushing, and the way they called it at FIRS worlds - I think it is just erring to far towards the side of 'zero contact' through an overly literal reading of the rules, and detracting from good competitive hockey.

I don't know that invoking the 'some of us have to turn up to work on monday' is reasonable, people play full contact ice hockey and turn up to work the next day, the key is to take out the dangerous play and manage the players.

Riding/Rubbing and standing people up without checking is a world away from a dangerous environment - calling people jostling for position just breaks the flow of the game. I don't think it is just a case of saying 'get some speed and skill'. Compare an NBA games calling to a local league, or soccer. The more competitive the game, the more contact you naturally get.

[topshelf]

UC Irvine, who are one of the most skilled and one of the least penalized teams in the entire nation last year with only 44 pims total for the entire 18 game season, were assessed 36 pims this weekend alone.

There are many players at this weekends tournament that played in NARCH, AAU and TORHS this past year and never saw anything even remotely close to this type of officiating whatsoever. If this is a USAIL national mandate, than it was clearly being enforced for the first time this weekend based on the facts of how many minor penalties were called.

Some of the leagues highest level players almost equaled and in some cases surpassed their totals for the entire previous year in penalty minutes this weekend alone. This helps to defeat the notion that this rule enforcement has been in place for a while now. It absolutely has not been enforced this way anywhere in the nation whatsoever!

[SDSU]

What we played this weekend was not hockey...if I had to compare it to anything close I would put it in the range of indoor soccer. You touched someone, you went to the box. They were off balance and fell near you, you went to the box. Want to play the body? Your gonna go to the box.

The officiating was absurd. Plain and simple. I understand that the refs were only doing what they were asked to do by the league, but the league needs to loosen up and let us play, especially in D1. The majority of participants in D1 have played either NARCh, TORHS or AAU before are not accustomed to being restricted from playing the game the way its meant to be played. This, in my opinion, is the main reason that there were so many penalties called this weekend. Players were simply playing the game the way that it has always been played and were being called for it.

Also, not being allowed to body up 1-1 and along the boards promotes people to use their sticks to slow people down and that is were players are going to get hurt.

It was a good tournament, but it wasn't nearly as fun as it could have been.

This concludes my rant.

[Dangl*]

I don't really know what to say about the officiating in San Jose! It seemed to me that the league has completely taken away any aspect of defense that we are allowed to play as players. I witnessed several times a player lifting the stick of another player and being called for a penalty. Now, I understand that the NCRHA is trying to minimize the injury rate, but as a coach for mite hockey I have seen more physical play in their games than in college. I also was wondering why the refs felt that it was necessary to almost pick fights with players and then no matter what the player says they are automatically given a game misconduct. In my opinion the officiating was a joke and if the league does not do something about this immediately they will see a rapid decline of participation from schools. I had several players tell me that if things didn't change then they would consider not playing. I hope that the NCRHA really takes a close look at these boards, because I love college hockey and I would not want the officiating to create a decline of interest.

[PGHhockey]

Soon you're not going to be allowed to take a shot that goes more than a foot off the ground, and eventually you're not going to be able to use the back of your blade any more....

Dude I actually ref a co-ed league where you're not allowed to raise your stick above your waist at any time, even in the motion of shooting (backswing and follow-through). You're also not allowed to hit the ground/slide to make a play. Add in the fact that the skill level is a mix of top-level talent and people who have no idea how to play...and you can't imagine how terrible it is to ref that type of play.

Luckily they pay very, very well!

Trust me, it's no fun for us either. Deep down, we resent having to make some of the calls we have to make because our roots are still in the rough & tumble style of play. Remember, it was just a few short years ago when you could practically impale a guy's stomach with the shaft of your stick and not get called.

It will take an entire generation or two of players before everyone "gets it."

[alex]

But if guys are being called for simply bodying a guy off the puck or lifting someone's stick, that's not rough & tumble style, that's just hockey.

[PGHhockey]

Bodying someone off the puck is a very vague statement...how is he doing it? With his shoulder, arm, hips, chest? Is his intent to play the puck or the body?

And lifting the stick...is it done between the offensive player's hands? Lower 1/3rd of the stick? Up by the top of the shaft?

Lots of gray area...

I'm working on something that will help clear the air soon, hopefully it will work out. Keep checking the IHC Blogs for an update from me...

[The Stiff]

It is interesting that no one from the NCRHA has chimed in here. They have to be reading this thread, because they read others and comment. If there is indeed a mandate to enforce certain rules differently, then it should be clearly communicated. I haven't seen that either.

[PGHhockey]

They're a big governing body...probably wouldn't be too smart to jump the gun on the issue, it would only do one of two things:

1) Throw their officials under the bus (bad)
2) Agree with the (possibly) bad officiating and take a camera-phone shot of themselves with egg all over their faces (also bad)

Probably best for them, politically, to just let it slide on a public forum.

It's in the best interest of the players to take this to the governing body for resolution, not IHC.

[JLambertUMSL]

I don't really know what to say about the officiating in San Jose! It seemed to me that the league has completely taken away any aspect of defense that we are allowed to play as players. I witnessed several times a player lifting the stick of another player and being called for a penalty. Now, I understand that the NCRHA is trying to minimize the injury rate, but as a coach for mite hockey I have seen more physical play in their games than in college. I also was wondering why the refs felt that it was necessary to almost pick fights with players and then no matter what the player says they are automatically given a game misconduct. In my opinion the officiating was a joke and if the league does not do something about this immediately they will see a rapid decline of participation from schools. I had several players tell me that if things didn't change then they would consider not playing. I hope that the NCRHA really takes a close look at these boards, because I love college hockey and I would not want the officiating to create a decline of interest.


Who is the head of officiating out there?

[joisyan]

i just started reading this thread, and i know it's a little off topic. but gameking28 has the best damn avatar i've seen yet. lol that's awesome man

[NGV]

Isn't it a coincidence that many of the players last weekend supposedly played at NARCh and USAHIL Inline Cup? For not being accustomed to being restricted in playing the game the way the officials called it, did you know that eight of the refs in San Jose worked NARCh this summer? That three worked the USAHIL Cup? Three worked last year's NCRHA nationals? And that even those events applied the (not so) new standard?

The game has changed and it's time to adapt. This new standard didn't change any rules, just the way they're being enforced. Now players need to use their speed, skill & strength instead of using those "old school" tactics to gain an advantage. No more hooking, holding or interference. By the way, some of the "bodying up one-on-one" last weekend was alot like body-checking or interference, depending on whether the player had the puck or not.

This standard has been embraced by all levels of hockey, including the NHL, IIHF, USA Hockey and the NCAA. Of course there'll be some growing pains, but in the end the game will be more enjoyable to play & watch. People resist change, hockey players included. It'll take some time, but I saw players & teams begin to adapt in San Jose. Some catch on faster than others.

[Clever Name]

So which ref are you from this weekend?

[DMezz28]

We are part of Hofstra and were in Marple this past weekend.

I been playing Roller since the first pair of inline skates came out...and i have never seen Hockey like i did in marple.

I understand that a Hook is subject to interpretion... to me, a hook is a Stick on a body part and a Tug... I was told this weekend by 2 refs, a Hook is "when the blade touches the gloves" (no tugging) We got called on a Hook after my D lifted up a Stick and his blade touched a glove, while defending our own slot.

I have a million of these examples... We poke checked a loose puck and hit a players hand who tried to dive on it. 2 mins on the SLASH!

Refs have a job to do, and I understand the game Should to be called the Way they see fit.... but this is NOT BASKETBALL... not everything is a foul.

Letting the Powerplay run the game is wrong and should be addressed, by everyone throughout the league.

There should be a Flow to the game, and the teams should go home with the feeling of "We played our game and Won or lost" - Not... "This is Crap, We Killed 45 minutes of Penalities in the 2nd period and never had a chance to win." These Weekends are too far and too long to let our PK or PP make the difference.

Its hockey... we should be able to rub off and Make minor contact... just because it is a no hitting league doesnt mean it is a no contact league.

I think Officials should blend into the game and not be seen unless they are forced to.

If it is a no contact league then it should be explained to Everyone.

thanks -

[PGHhockey]

Well, at least Richard can thank the questionable officiating, the tightened standard, etc. for a bunch of new IHC members!

[William Bourque]

I don't know who was there because I was busy taking care of other things. The ECRHA organized a meeting with our RIC at the Feasterville Columbus Day Event to talk about the type of game that would be called and explain what was and wasn't a penalty. All teams were notified and given the opportunity to attend and ask question in regards to what was and wasn't going to be called.

We held the same thing last year, which i was able to attend along with maybe 4 other teams. It's quite easy to say the teams that attended and took the most out of those meetings benefited directly when it came to game play.

Hopefully with all this discussion about officials, it will encourage teams to actually take advantage of the opportunities presented to them by the league and the refs.

And for those of you who still want to complain, might i suggest possibly trying to learn the standard of play so your not spending the entire game in the penalty box. I am almost positive there are helpful videos on USA Hockey's website.

- Bill

[Brian Costello]

Originally Posted by Dangl*
I don't really know what to say about the officiating in San Jose! It seemed to me that the league has completely taken away any aspect of defense that we are allowed to play as players. I witnessed several times a player lifting the stick of another player and being called for a penalty. Now, I understand that the NCRHA is trying to minimize the injury rate, but as a coach for mite hockey I have seen more physical play in their games than in college. I also was wondering why the refs felt that it was necessary to almost pick fights with players and then no matter what the player says they are automatically given a game misconduct. In my opinion the officiating was a joke and if the league does not do something about this immediately they will see a rapid decline of participation from schools. I had several players tell me that if things didn't change then they would consider not playing. I hope that the NCRHA really takes a close look at these boards, because I love college hockey and I would not want the officiating to create a decline of interest.

It kinda sucks when the officiating is so bad you don't even have any fun

[GoRangrHky]

Again, telling people what is going to be called doesn't mean that it's a good way to play hockey. I could tell you that skating backwards is a penalty, and yeah, you won't skate backwards, but does that mean that it's good hockey.

[KAppel]

I was at the ECRHA ACC meeting and read over the letter from the referees explaining what to expect this season. Granted, Drexel was not represented at the CDE meeting due to having a game near the same time and therefore I did not speak to any officials directly and may not have seen everything. However, I would still have to say that - based on the letter I was given at the ACC meeting - the style of officiating this past weekend was surprising. It seems like virtually any stick work (even purely stick-on-stick) is likely to result in a penalty, and what was considered a good, clean play in holding one's ground or bodying up on the puck carrier with the hands down last year is no longer tolerated. (Meaning that I saw a few plays where a man would simply stand his ground defensively, be run into, and be called for a rough/interference/what have you if the guy who skated into him with his head down fell. It almost seemed as though defensemen are expected to get out of the way of opposing players).

If any ECRHA refs or officials are out there, you know it's far from me to complain to the refs, but in this case I have to side with some of the dissenters. I understand the refs are calling the game as they've been told to and I'm not blaming them, but I would really like to see things lighten up a little. A lot of defensive tools are being removed entirely and it felt, to me, like there were virtually no hard-fought, gritty games at Marple. And in my humble opinion, hockey in all forms has always been about passion, willingness to work, and the ability to compete in the face of adversity rather than about which team skates faster and has a better cannon on their PP.

Again, I'm not jumping on any refs here; things were called pretty evenly all weekend. I just think that the new mandate seems to err on the side of over-calling games and I don't necessarily agree that it's for the betterment of the college sport.

Just my two cents.

[NYR1199]

Listen to our horror story from the SECRHL last weekend...

Game: FSU - FAU Division 2.

FAU is winning 5-4. FSU scores with 1.8 seconds left to tie the game, both officials signal goal. FAU bench starts yelling, the refs reverse the goal. FSU loses! I dont understand how you can reverse a goal in which both officials signaled goal. The game was meaningful as it was a conference game which is going to come back to haunt fsu.

[CUDangled]

I bet they went upstairs and used the video replay.

If BOTH officials signaled a goal...what could have possibly reversed their opinion? Peer pressure? lol Only the official in the zone needs to signal to begin with.

Sorry to hear that you guys got robbed.