What happened to GP D1???

[Ben Lambert]

We were so excited to be able to move up to division 1 las year and be able to compete among the "best" teams in the region. Looking at the division his year, it has 4 teams and Division 2 has 12.

The divisional realignment was supposed to make it so the best, most organized teams play D1.

Are you telling me that our division is so weak that we can only field 4 D1 teams??

Not to call anybody out, but Truman St, Missouri St., SLU, where are you guys?

"It is to be noted that high-caliber talent is not a prerequisite to play Division I; rather, Division I is intended for the most organized and committed member clubs." -- Straight from NCRHA paperwork.

I think that you are selling yourselves short. You have matching jerseys and pants, coaches, and fulfill all other reqirements to play d1. Is it that you aren't committed? Scared of losing a few games?

We weren't scared of losing a few games, we knew we'd have to play Lindenood a few times. We moved up and did pretty well.

I kept hearing last year how good MO St. was especially and hearing a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us, and they are in D2 again this year.

When we played Truman St, it was a close game for the first half, we were losing 2 - 0 after the 1st period!! D2.

I keep hearing about "xyz is going to slu, slu is getting ice hockey players they are gonna be sick!!" D2.

Do you guys think that you are really that much worse than Mizzou that you can't step up and play with the big boys? Are you really that scared of Lindenwood?

For the sake of our region, grow some balls and move up. It makes everyone look bad that nobody will play D1.

Ben Lambert

[sh105]

I find this post comical. Two years ago it seemed all of the GP D1 teams wanted UMSL to move up to D1 and they refused. UMSL is now D1 and they would like more teams to move with them to that division for more competition.

[wednthavddr]

It is not about how good your team is. It is about how organized you are. It just so happens that most of the good teams are organized because the people involved enjoy playing hockey and are willing to put in the time and MONEY to have a very organized club.

[Ben Lambert]

You would all laugh when you found out that probably more than half of the teams in the NCRHA have a bigger budget than our d1 and b teams combined. It's no tall about money. It does help, but we will make it on 25% of the budget we are used to this year becuase our players want to...

Where there's a will, there's a way.

There are plenty of teams who could move up (from all across the country in every region) and quit sandbagging in d2. The fact is that people are scared to move up because they think they may not qualify for nationals which is kind of stupid in itself because more teams from d1 qualify for nationals.

You get more games at better times, too. No 7am games for us! :D

We are twice the team we were last year and we owe a lot of what we did last year and this year to moving up. Moving up to d1 will prove to be the best thing we ever did for our organization. We have some kids on our team this year who wouldn't have even considered umsl if we would have stayed d2... (dare I mention) PJ Tallo? Meade? Propp? Endom? Gwozdz? No way would these guys have come to our school if we stayed D2.

It's not like we won every year in D2 (like Neuman... Sorry, it's true--2 Championships in 3 years), but after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years, where can we go? It would've been great to stay D2 last year and run the table, but we realized it was time to step up and accept the challenge of playing d1. Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.

Move up, man up... you may just surprise yourself.

4 teams in Divison 1 Great Plains?? A JOKE. :mad:

[Ben Lambert]

PS we didn't move up because Ames wasn't going to return and our goaltending was a huge question mark.

[teamcarramrod]

We were so excited to be able to move up to division 1 las year and be able to compete among the "best" teams in the region. Looking at the division his year, it has 4 teams and Division 2 has 12.

The divisional realignment was supposed to make it so the best, most organized teams play D1.

Are you telling me that our division is so weak that we can only field 4 D1 teams??

Not to call anybody out, but Truman St, Missouri St., SLU, where are you guys?

"It is to be noted that high-caliber talent is not a prerequisite to play Division I; rather, Division I is intended for the most organized and committed member clubs." -- Straight from NCRHA paperwork.

I think that you are selling yourselves short. You have matching jerseys and pants, coaches, and fulfill all other reqirements to play d1. Is it that you aren't committed? Scared of losing a few games?

We weren't scared of losing a few games, we knew we'd have to play Lindenood a few times. We moved up and did pretty well.

I kept hearing last year how good MO St. was especially and hearing a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us, and they are in D2 again this year.

When we played Truman St, it was a close game for the first half, we were losing 2 - 0 after the 1st period!! D2.

I keep hearing about "xyz is going to slu, slu is getting ice hockey players they are gonna be sick!!" D2.

Do you guys think that you are really that much worse than Mizzou that you can't step up and play with the big boys? Are you really that scared of Lindenwood?

For the sake of our region, grow some balls and move up. It makes everyone look bad that nobody will play D1.

Ben Lambert

There are divisions for a reason. SLU is a division II team because of its lack of skill/talent. As are the other teams in the division. Yeah, agreed you had a good game with Truman St. last year but 1. not every team can do that (K. State for example) and 2. every year teams lose and gain players and say a team is really good one year they may lose their top line and not be able to compete the next year. It is somewhat happening to Truman St. Their team is a lot of older players right now so yes maybe they can compete now, but if they moved up and didn't get any new talent then inevitably they would have to move back down because they wouldn't be able to compete at that caliber of play.

I for one can somewhat speak for SLU, as i currently go there, and will state that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell for us to win a game in Division I. There were players and players at tryouts who would have barely played at the JV level in High School (not saying that i'm good). but you have to be realistic about the situation and not expect every team to be able to play division I hockey. Also, "XYZ playing at SLU" is no longer there and the ice team is an actually team this year for the other player, so we are back to a lines worth of players and if we played a Division I team we would lose by more that 10 goals a game, every game. Now, being afraid of a high caliber team, such as Lindenwood, is a bit of a stretch. You have to face reality and understand where your team stands and to play Lindenwood for a full game we would lose by, I don't know, 30 goals. It's not the fact that we are afraid, its the fact that we know that we aren't at that caliber yet (and probably never will) and are a Division II team.

Also, you have to look at the caliber of teams compared to the nation. One, we wouldn't win a game in Division I, but say we did go to nationals and play other teams there. It would be the same outcome as every other game in St. Louis would be. Understand yet? Compared to the rest of the nation we are a Division II team, hands down.

Thanks.

[teamcarramrod]

You would all laugh when you found out that probably more than half of the teams in the NCRHA have a bigger budget than our d1 and b teams combined. It's no tall about money. It does help, but we will make it on 25% of the budget we are used to this year becuase our players want to...

Where there's a will, there's a way.

There are plenty of teams who could move up (from all across the country in every region) and quit sandbagging in d2. The fact is that people are scared to move up because they think they may not qualify for nationals which is kind of stupid in itself because more teams from d1 qualify for nationals.

You get more games at better times, too. No 7am games for us! :D

We are twice the team we were last year and we owe a lot of what we did last year and this year to moving up. Moving up to d1 will prove to be the best thing we ever did for our organization. We have some kids on our team this year who wouldn't have even considered umsl if we would have stayed d2... (dare I mention) PJ Tallo? Meade? Propp? Endom? Gwozdz? No way would these guys have come to our school if we stayed D2.

It's not like we won every year in D2 (like Neuman... Sorry, it's true--2 Championships in 3 years), but after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years, where can we go? It would've been great to stay D2 last year and run the table, but we realized it was time to step up and accept the challenge of playing d1. Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.

Move up, man up... you may just surprise yourself.

4 teams in Divison 1 Great Plains?? A JOKE. :mad:

It's funny how you mention Gwozdz, since he is 27 and just wants to go to shcool.But, I'm sure he picked UMSL because of its DI standing;along with the other guys who i don't know. Also, UMSL does accept nearly anyone and everyone. The majority of people choose life over hockey, sorry.

[train]

well since you called us out, allow me to respond.

you stated that "after a championship, runner up and final 4 in three of four years" it was time to move up. no disagreement there but lets look at what we have done the past 4 years:

04-05 = 7-4-1 - no nationals
05-06 = 8-10 - no nationals
06-07 = 10-7-1 - lost in the first round of nationals
07-08 = 15-0-3 - lost in first round of nationals

not really close to the success of umsl. you guys dominated for a few years at all levels before moving up. have you considered the thought maybe we are just a year or two behind you guys in development?

i honestly think moving up to d1, not only losing games but maybe missing nationals, would do more harm than good for our program. students at missouri state still don't even know we have a team. it isn't for a lack of trying on our part, just not much interest for roller hockey in springfield.

you say you are twice the team since moving up. you got that way by having sustained success and heavy recruiting. if we go undefeated this year and actually compete well at nationals, we should move up. since we don't have the resources to recruit (let's be honest, being in st. louis is a pretty big advantage) and have had one good year in the past 6, i think we are fine where we are.

and regarding all the talk about us being great last year and "a bunch of noise about how they'd beat up on us," i liked to know what missouri state player said that because i don't think anyone of us did.

[train]

It's funny how you mention Gwozdz, since he is 27 and just wants to go to shcool.But, I'm sure he picked UMSL because of its DI standing;along with the other guys who i don't know. Also, UMSL does accept nearly anyone and everyone. The majority of people choose life over hockey, sorry.
i wanted to say something about school standards in my post but i refrained. i think cost of tuition is a big contributor to why you guys and washu might have hard time getting good players. i'd personally like to have kids that choose my school for academics rather than hockey, but whatever floats lindenwood's boat.

side point: does anyone know what the graduation rates are for roller hockey players? i think i'd be interesting to see the rates for schools. i really don't know what to expect.

[islanderfan]

I don't believe there are many more organized teams than K-State. Saying that, I still don't believe we should play D-1 in the Great Plains Region. I do not like the current rules for divisional alignment. I mentioned this before they were implemented, and my opinion has not changed. I do not believe that clothes make the team, as the NCRHA appears to saying by their divisional requirements. I really don't believe that anyone in the GP would want K-State in Div-1. I would have a hard time traveling as much as we do without the hope for a victory. As you all know, we struggle for victory in D-II.
As far as support from the school goes, we get 10% of our budget from the student senate, nothing from the school. The other 90% is spent on rink rental and travel expenses, which are huge for us. We do not have the budget for matching helmets, gloves, pants, etc. We've invested in other things which are more immediate needs for the team.
The GP has always looked at div 1 as the tougher division, and as long as all the schools feel this way, it will not change. The NCRHA is attempting to change this with their new divisional structure, but it is obvious from this conversation, that the GP teams are not buying this. If the region really was divided by the organizational level of clubs, both divisions would have a diverse level of talent. Since that obviously has not happened this year, we will stay div II. My goal is to bring my club into div I in the future, but the budget is not there this year, nor is the divisional alignment happening as envisioned by the NCRHA as far as the GP is concerned. If the teams in the region were to adopt the NCRHA standards, we would also, but I think that's a long shot.
In closing, I look forward to playing the new teams in Div II. It's always good to play people you haven't seen before. That's how you learn the game.

[JLambertUMSL]

I find this post comical. Two years ago it seemed all of the GP D1 teams wanted UMSL to move up to D1 and they refused. UMSL is now D1 and they would like more teams to move with them to that division for more competition.

You must be talking about '06-07. It was a matter of having adequate personnel. The fact that we returned one goaltender that season, who was coming off a 5-10-2 season on our B team, might have had something to do with it.

It turned out that we used an untested freshman in goal for the first semester, and then Thomas Ames unexpectedly came back in January.

Had Ames and Wetton both returned in September, we'd have moved up that season. However, we started the season with two goaltenders -- and nothing personal against them, but neither had a prayer of competing in DI.

The first semester that season proved that we didn't belong in DI. We needed third-period comebacks to beat Wash U and Missouri State, and needed a goal with three minutes left to tie SLU. Then later that season, even after Ames and Wetton came back, we lost to Truman anyway. It's not like we were Neumann smoking everyone 15-1 and winning 20-plus games in a row.

And then we lost in the semifinals at Nationals in front of a huge, loud hometown crowd. Our team was not all that good that year. Not good enough to justify moving up when we had four rivals in DII who were all competitive with us.

[JLambertUMSL]

Brook, Long beach, etc--those are programs on the rise, the teams who stay d2 will ultimately be the ones who lose talent becuase people will want to play division 1.



Christian Bernad....IMO the best DII player in the country last season. Now at Long Beach.

[JLambertUMSL]

i wanted to say something about school standards in my post but i refrained. i think cost of tuition is a big contributor to why you guys and washu might have hard time getting good players. i'd personally like to have kids that choose my school for academics rather than hockey, but whatever floats lindenwood's boat.

side point: does anyone know what the graduation rates are for roller hockey players? i think i'd be interesting to see the rates for schools. i really don't know what to expect.

I know UMSL's graduation rates. (These are "A" team only. B team would probably raise our averages, though.)

The following percentages, based on the Nationals roster, also include one player who will graduate this year (Doug Purk), one still on track (Zach Stacy, a freshman in 04-05, still attends UMSL but doesn't play), one who has already graduated from elsewhere (Matt Wilson, Mizzou), and one who has transferred and is pursuing a career as a paramedic (Dory Williams).

2003-04: 92%
2004-05: 83%

The following percentages (since they are so recent) count players still on track to graduate, from UMSL or elsewhere (John Angelbeck, Mizzou and Jason Shields, University of New Orleans), and Scott Kincaid, who served in the Army Reserve the whole time he was at UMSL and is now in the police academy (I don't count his "failure" to graduate against us)...

2005-06: 85%
2006-07: 80%

[train]

We (some of us from UMSL) were talking about that the other day. I'll defer to the actual statistic if James Lambert wants to chime in, but, excluding transfers, our graduation rate is almost 100%, I believe. We have had transfers to Mizzou, Meramec (for nursing/paramedic), and Eastern Missouri Police Academy, but I think all others with few exceptions, if any, have graduated or are still currently enrolled. But, like I said, I'll defer to the actual statistic.

I'd like to know what other schools' graduation rates are, too. I have no doubt there are some schools out there that have perhaps as little as a 25% graduation rate (not counting transfers).
i guess i am really more interseted in how long it takes to graduate, meaning do most players stop playing because they graduated or because of eligibility?

[JLambertUMSL]

i guess i am really more interseted in how long it takes to graduate, meaning do most players stop playing because they graduated or because of eligibility?

The five-year eligibility rule hasn't been in place long enough to be able to tell.

[Ben Lambert]

It's funny how you mention Gwozdz, since he is 27 and just wants to go to shcool.But, I'm sure he picked UMSL because of its DI standing;along with the other guys who i don't know. Also, UMSL does accept nearly anyone and everyone. The majority of people choose life over hockey, sorry.

He just wants to go to school, I see. I guess you must know him pretty well. I'm sure the fact that we have a D1 team helped sway him from Meramec. What other reason would one pay more for school?

Nearly anyone and everyone? Hardly. Even though we aren't a Private Jesuit University, UMSL does NOT let everyone in, there are a few people who will read this that were turned away, bank on it.

Here's something wild that you may not have thought about yet. Who is the Dean of Admissions at your university? Who is in charge of Student Affairs, Academic Affairs, etc? If you cant name those people off the top of your head, you had better have someone network and meet them. They are the only thing stopping anyone from going to any school. Exceptions are made for people. There is such a thing as letting someone in on a probationary status. Frequently people find that they probably COULD get in, they just have to prove that they belong at the school. If your organization is worthy of help, they will give it. Even if your org isn't, it's worth a try. I'm sure you probably have a chance of swaying the Dean's opinion when you tell him that your club competes at an intercollegiate level and the accounting club doesn't (lots of clubs are grouped in this way, we used to be) so maybe just maybe they can go ahead and let Brett Hull into your school even though he only got a 21 on his act with a 2.5 gpa because it will help SLU win.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

EDIT:

SLU does have high standards as does Wash U, they get a pass. The only reason why they were mentioned was because of people like O Rourke and Sommerich as well as a few other names I heard from credible sources. If that's not the case, then ok.

MO State on the other hand, has no excuse. They will run the table if they get the players that I hear they are getting. They are a public university who has close to the same standards that we do at UMSL. They could and do get plenty of talent year in and year out.

Truman is going to be good for a few more years, there isnt a rule that says you can't move back down.

If anybody wants advice or anything else on how to make a club successful, just ask. There are no secrets on how to build a successful program, the question is wether or not you WANT to. I guarantee that an extra couple of hours of work a week from anybody on your team doing work for the team would help immensely. That's all we have ever done at UMSL. It's the same as anything else. You make your own breaks.

Although I guess it did help to pick up a few guys back in 2003. :D

[alex]

As far as the "choosing life or hockey" debate goes, I've found that, although very few players make their college decision entirely on roller hockey, for many the caliber of a school's roller hockey team can certainly sway their decision heavily. Whether or not it's the "smart thing" to do is irrelevant, guys who love to play the game will alter their college choice with roller hockey as a factor.

At least that's what I've found in my experience. We had a guy who loosely planned on going to ASU in a year or 2 but when I told him about the team we were building this year, he sped up his plans in order to attend ASU immediately. Another kid talked about going out of state, had a 4.0 could get into almost any school, and laughed, rightfully so, at me when I mentioned ASU as an option. Word about the team we were putting together spread and 6 months later he was calling me asking about the team. Now, he's attending ASU.

I think, all other things being generally equal, guys will make a decision based on roller hockey. So, I could see someone planning on attending college in the St. Louis area then to certainly choose UMSL over another STL school because they're DI. I don't see someone from, let's say, New York choosing UMSL because they're DI over a much closer school that's DII but with most other things (distance from home, quality of program of study) being somewhat equal I think roller hockey is a big swing vote for many kids.

[teamcarramrod]

But ask Alex Digirolamo about it, he knows more about our players' ambitions in life than I do.

Yeah, you are right I don't know what UMSL players want to do in life and as I probably incorrectly stated i don't. Truthfully this subject doesn't really bother me except when somebody goes on rifling at schools needing to move up when there is no chance that they can. Also, I'd like to know what Ben has to say, because James I can clearly see that you are a better writer and seem more intelligent (as seen from previous posts).

[train]

MO State on the other hand, has no excuse. They will run the table if they get the players that I hear they are getting. They are a public university who has close to the same standards that we do at UMSL. They could and do get plenty of talent year in and year out.

and who are we getting this year?

[Ben Lambert]

and who are we getting this year?

Heard you were possibly getting Salman Shah and Joel Livingston.

[Ben Lambert]

Yeah, you are right I don't know what UMSL players want to do in life and as I probably incorrectly stated i don't. Truthfully this subject doesn't really bother me except when somebody goes on rifling at schools needing to move up when there is no chance that they can. Also, I'd like to know what Ben has to say, because James I can clearly see that you are a better writer and seem more intelligent (as seen from previous posts).

I really don't know what that last sentence means. If you can't understand what I'm trying to say, your Jesuit Education is failing you and perhaps you should try the school across the street. You might find it more at your level.

[catch]

As one of the primary people to decide why Mo. State does not move up let me be blunt about a number of things. The talk last year about beating UMSL was simply sarcasm for the sake of getting UMSL to scrimmage us but it did not unfold. UMSL has nothing to do with our moving up or not.
1) prior to 2 years ago Missouri State did not qualify for nationals. we have qualified 2 years in a row, the first year being over our heads and the second should have been in the final 4-8, maybe even the championship, but we had injuries and didn't play up to our potential.
2) I believe UMSL had won D-II before moving up and regularly competed at the top
3) The primary reason we do not move up is that Lindenwood gives out scholarships unlike the remainder of the country. We cannot compete with that for any reasonable goal of winning nationals. UMSL is to some extent, but we are a long way away from that level.
4) We scrimmaged twice last year with Division I Missouri Rolla (now Science and Tech). Both times we won by a goal in very close games. They were an alternate for Nationals who didnt make it. That would put us in about the same boat. Frankly, from my perspective not making nationals is not that big of a deal. Nevertheless, driving 6 hours round trip to st. louis 6 times a year, staying in hotels ultimately to just improve, but not compete for first isn't very attractive. The pleasure of doing these things and putting it all together cost me about $4,000 last year.

Balls are for bulls, everybody else has about the same set. There are things that some people do in their everyday lives that far exceed having "balls" enough to play in a different division. Thus, while I appreciate UMSL's desire to have better, deeper competetion, we all do not have the same goals in life nor do we attain those at the same pace. Incidentally, there is no one who I have put on my team that hasn't or won't graduate.

[Ben Lambert]

Good enough for me.

4 teams it is. Should be fun. Glad I don't have to play 4 teams 5 times each.

BTW as far as garduation rates go, see James' posts...

[catch]

I have no comment regarding any other school graduation rate other than Lindenwood. I have no idea what Lindenwood's rate is nor do I particularly care. The only reason I believe it is relevant is that they dispense scholarships and from my perspective that changes everything. When you pay someone's way through school in exchange for sports the graduation rate counts.

Our roster, at least initially, will be much the same as last year with a few solid young players. While your point about UMSL and MSU being on the same level playing as they are both states schools there is one tremendous difference. We are 200 miles from St. Louis. Other than 3 over the course of 6-7 seasons every player we have is from St. Louis. UMSL is able to go to high school games scout and recruit. We have no ability to do that amidst 50-70 hour work weeks and 400 mile round trips. I am not knocking UMSL for doing that just see that as part of why we are where we are. This year and next year frankly we could play Division I and compete with UMST and Mizzou. I don't think that we can compete with UMSL or Lindenwood nor, given our dependence on all walk ons, would we last if we didn't succeed, i.e. have a 4-16 type year.

[madfred]

Only one from the underwater gods can say he has hoisted the skateland cup.
Now that requires real gonads.

[Ben Lambert]

lol madfred.

Catch, here's what I'd do if I were you guys: target 2 or 3 guys you really want and have them come down to school with you for a day or 2, take em out and show them a good time (something that has to be easier at a school like yours) and see what you can do with it. Kids will go where they want to go. Make them want to go to your school.

Oh and hang on the the Dutch Schulzes of the world, too.

[JLambertUMSL]

I don't think there's any reason to pressure DII teams to move up.

Our competition is fine...Missouri S&T just got possibly the best freshman goalie in STL...Lindenwood is Lindenwood, and Mizzou played us close every time last year.

The only reason I'd even care who plays DI vs. DII is that our university probably isn't impressed with the fact that there are only four teams in GPCIHL DI.

[JLambertUMSL]

Not wanting to deal with Lindenwood is a perfectly good reason not to move up to DI. If you've already established yourself in GP DII, there's no reason to become DI unless you think you can beat them.

[JLambertUMSL]

Balls are for bulls, everybody else has about the same set.

Words to live by.

[JLambertUMSL]

All Ben is trying to say is that we want the best competition possible. Truman State was the second-best Great Plains team we played last year. Missouri State and SLU both beat them right around the time we played them. So here's another angle: three of the top five teams in the GPCIHL last year played in Division II.

[teamcarramrod]

I was disagreeing with Ben Lambert about moving up and wanted for him to defend himself and not have you do it for him.

Also regarding this:


All Ben is trying to say is that we want the best competition possible. Truman State was the second-best Great Plains team we played last year. Missouri State and SLU both beat them right around the time we played them. So here's another angle: three of the top five teams in the GPCIHL last year played in Division II.

We did beat them but with the help of players that we no longer have. We will be a contender for DII but with a lack of skill. And there is no way that SLU can play DI

[JLambertUMSL]

You fired the "life vs. hockey" shot.

[catch]

In reply to prior posts I have the following replies:
1. Shah is on the ice hockey team. I don't know Joel Livingston other than to have seen his name in the local newspaper indicating he scored a number of goals for MSU's ice hockey team in the past. He is not on the ice hockey team and I assume graduated.

2. "Dutch Schulze" And I thought he look confused when I called him Sargeant Schulze. Now he is in the Irish mob. i believe Mr. Schulze left for a girl. Every player who has left of team has wound up being for the betterment of the team and the player except for Mr. Schulze. We did not benefit from his departure. We finally paid the girl off to break up with him, but it was too late he was already underwater. Thankfully, Chilcutt grabbed the oar, but let go and grabbed the life jacket just in time.

3. Recruiting is and always will be a big problem. The high school leagues are in St. Louis. I work about 60 hours a week on top of hockey, which includes most weekends. It is next to impossible to follow high school roller hockey from 200 miles away. However, we have got lucky the last 3-4 years with who has come here to play, including this year.

4. Alas, someone has found a weaker chiefs quarterback than the Chiefs for Sunday and he's in the same state.

[JLambertUMSL]

In reply to prior posts I have the following replies:
1. Shah is on the ice hockey team. I don't know Joel Livingston other than to have seen his name in the local newspaper indicating he scored a number of goals for MSU's ice hockey team in the past. He is not on the ice hockey team and I assume graduated.

2. "Dutch Schulze" And I thought he look confused when I called him Sargeant Schulze. Now he is in the Irish mob. i believe Mr. Schulze left for a girl. Every player who has left of team has wound up being for the betterment of the team and the player except for Mr. Schulze. We did not benefit from his departure. We finally paid the girl off to break up with him, but it was too late he was already underwater. Thankfully, Chilcutt grabbed the oar, but let go and grabbed the life jacket just in time.

3. Recruiting is and always will be a big problem. The high school leagues are in St. Louis. I work about 60 hours a week on top of hockey, which includes most weekends. It is next to impossible to follow high school roller hockey from 200 miles away. However, we have got lucky the last 3-4 years with who has come here to play, including this year.

4. Alas, someone has found a weaker chiefs quarterback than the Chiefs for Sunday and he's in the same state.

Item 1: Is there any way to get members of your ice hockey team into six games so they're eligible for Nationals? Just curious (I assume the answer is no).

Item 2: Mr. Schulz left for a male mermaid. His dad is our DI coach now, so it worked out for us. Mr. Chilcutt's girlfriend had some kind of strange irrational hatred for all things UMSL. (Hope his knee rehab is going well, btw. He's a good kid.)

Item 3: So who has come to play this year? Anyone new? (And if you ever need information on STL high school recruits, let me know.)

Item 4: The Rams need to move back to LA.

I was looking through video last night and found a clip of #23 on your team scoring on a penalty shot against Wash U last year....private message me if you want it and I'll put it up somewhere for you.

[train]

Item 1: Is there any way to get members of your ice hockey team into six games so they're eligible for Nationals? Just curious (I assume the answer is no).

Item 2: Mr. Schulz left for a male mermaid. His dad is our DI coach now, so it worked out for us. Mr. Chilcutt's girlfriend had some kind of strange irrational hatred for all things UMSL. (Hope his knee rehab is going well, btw. He's a good kid.)

Item 3: So who has come to play this year? Anyone new? (And if you ever need information on STL high school recruits, let me know.)

Item 4: The Rams need to move back to LA.

I was looking through video last night and found a clip of #23 on your team scoring on a penalty shot against Wash U last year....private message me if you want it and I'll put it up somewhere for you.

#1 yes, it is possible but i personally don't think it is fair the rest of the team.
#2 yes, yes she does.
#3 rosters will be posted later today.
#4 rams and cheifs will both go winless.
#5 fritz vasquez.

[All Star Sieve]

I think that the lack of teams at the D I level is directly related to the fact that everyone knows Mizzou's D I team is going to go undefeated this year. It makes sense. I wouldn't want to lose to Mizzou every game.

Sincerely,
Kevin McFarland

[Ben Lambert]

I sure do love Kevin McFarland. Are you playing D1 this year or are you still too good to play for them?

[catch]

1) I think Mizzou will go undefeated until they face OU in the Big 12 Championship. Then I think they will lose not because they are not as good, but because I have Chiefs season tickets and get to trek to Kansas City 8 times this year to watch hapless defeats (actually I am lucky 2 hockey weekends interfere), but along with the tickets I have 4 tickets to the Big 12 championship. Given its the only game to look forward too, that and MU vs KU, Mizzou will have to lose. Oh I think you were talking hockey.
2) Train thou shall not criticize the Chiefs. I will recall a recent trip in which you saw the Chiefs defeat the Rams. Sure it was preseason, sur the Chiefs didn't play as expected, but the hours of rain delays and beer were good.
3) Pete seems to be doing good with his thearpy, but won't be evaluated until January
4) We picked up Rob Barrett a freshman from St. Louis, who is a top 4 defensemen. We also added Andy Houska from the ice hockey team and Mike Loftus a freshman from Desmet. The only player we are losing is Danny Black.

[JLambertUMSL]

1) I think Mizzou will go undefeated until they face OU in the Big 12 Championship. Then I think they will lose not because they are not as good, but because I have Chiefs season tickets and get to trek to Kansas City 8 times this year to watch hapless defeats (actually I am lucky 2 hockey weekends interfere), but along with the tickets I have 4 tickets to the Big 12 championship. Given its the only game to look forward too, that and MU vs KU, Mizzou will have to lose. Oh I think you were talking hockey.
2) Train thou shall not criticize the Chiefs. I will recall a recent trip in which you saw the Chiefs defeat the Rams. Sure it was preseason, sur the Chiefs didn't play as expected, but the hours of rain delays and beer were good.
3) Pete seems to be doing good with his thearpy, but won't be evaluated until January
4) We picked up Rob Barrett a freshman from St. Louis, who is a top 4 defensemen. We also added Andy Houska from the ice hockey team and Mike Loftus a freshman from Desmet. The only player we are losing is Danny Black.

1) Mizzou can't beat Oklahoma because Oklahoma's offensive line averages about 375 pounds and wears them out.
2) The entire city of KC shuts down to watch those Rams-Chiefs preseason battles. One time I was on a road trip to Denver and stopped for the night in Topeka, and the hotel clerk started talking trash about the game that had happened earlier that night...it took me a minute to figure out what the hell she was talking about. The preseason game. WTF.
3) I can't even imagine having to go through that.
4) Those are good pickups. (I'm going to post a thread with all the GP newcomer info that I've heard of, just so it's all in one place.)

[JLambertUMSL]

My post regarding our budget was misleading at best. I was unaware of the fact that we are still actually in transition to the athletic department, and our funding for this year still comes from Student Life* (not Athletics). The slashing of our budget happened last spring, before we learned that we were being moved over to Athletics. I was under the impression that everything (including funding) changed to Athletics right away. Apparently not the case.

(The former Athletic Director met with the whole team back in June and I guess my memory of that meeting isn't quite as clear as I thought it was. I'm no longer a club executive/officer.)


* - I'll refrain from commenting on the circumstances behind this. Everyone here probably knows what it's like to deal with elected student officials who have your fate in their hands, so use your imagination.

[catch]

One must bear in mind KC has 10 sporting events each year. 8 regular season and 2 preseason games. The Royals do not exist. Had George Brett hit .400 he would still be behind Len Dawson, Ed Podalak, Derreck Thomas, Neil Smith, etc. Your sole mistake in Topeka was going to Denver. Never discuss or mention Denver or Oakland. Mike Ruff dons a lot of footbal jerseys, but the day he shows up in a Bronco or Raiders jersey is his last day on the team. Frankly, the Chiefs are so pathetic this year I couldn't even get mad at the handful of Raiders fans at arrowhead.

[JLambertUMSL]

One must bear in mind KC has 10 sporting events each year. 8 regular season and 2 preseason games. The Royals do not exist. Had George Brett hit .400 he would still be behind Len Dawson, Ed Podalak, Derreck Thomas, Neil Smith, etc. Your sole mistake in Topeka was going to Denver. Never discuss or mention Denver or Oakland. Mike Ruff dons a lot of footbal jerseys, but the day he shows up in a Bronco or Raiders jersey is his last day on the team. Frankly, the Chiefs are so pathetic this year I couldn't even get mad at the handful of Raiders fans at arrowhead.

The funny thing (maybe it's not funny) was that the hotel clerk was a Broncos fan. And still she'd been drawn into the Governor's Cup hype.

[train]

I think that the lack of teams at the D I level is directly related to the fact that everyone knows Mizzou's D I team is going to go undefeated this year. It makes sense. I wouldn't want to lose to Mizzou every game.

Sincerely,
Kevin McFarland
kev,

i seem to remember late nights at queeny repeatedly lighting you up. i think a mizzou/missouri state game is in order.

[Mtour71]

My post regarding our budget was misleading at best. I was unaware of the fact that we are still actually in transition to the athletic department, and our funding for this year still comes from Student Life* (not Athletics). The slashing of our budget happened last spring, before we learned that we were being moved over to Athletics. I was under the impression that everything (including funding) changed to Athletics right away. Apparently not the case.

(The former Athletic Director met with the whole team back in June and I guess my memory of that meeting isn't quite as clear as I thought it was. I'm no longer a club executive/officer.)


* - I'll refrain from commenting on the circumstances behind this. Everyone here probably knows what it's like to deal with elected student officials who have your fate in their hands, so use your imagination.


Who cares? Ben started this topic with a good question, now it is one of the gayest posts I have ever read.

[JLambertUMSL]

Who cares? Ben started this topic with a good question, now it is one of the gayest posts I have ever read.

The initial post has been deleted. People got angry. This is known as a "retraction."

[jwatson18]

Response to not moving up to D1:

I play for Truman State and I can give a few of the larger reasons as to why we decided to stay DII this year. A few months ago Tom and I had a conversation about us moving up, he was trying to convince me that it would be a smart move for us as a club; it would give us a higher level of competition as well as place us on a larger scale which would therefore bring more publicity to our small liberal arts school. Personally, I agree with both of these things. Clearly, playing in DI would create a higher level of competition and make us play better in order to compete. However, at the time Tom and spoke our roster was to be said lightly, questionable. The only thing we knew was happening is that we were losing Dane Moody, our leader and a player who can arguably compete with anyone in the country. Additionally, both of our incoming rookies last year had surgery over the summer. So at the time we very well could have been losing 3 of our core players. As it turns out one of the rookies is already back in the lineup and the other is still undergoing rehab. However, he was on his skates tonight and looked to be feeling better. I am not sure if anyone is familiar with Truman State University's incoming freshman standards, but they leave us with little to no recruitment options. I am not exactly who it was on the thread that was offering recruitment ideas, and to get involved with the dean; quite frankly that is a very good idea. Something that we should have looked into. However, at this point, it doesn't change a thing, so all I can respond to is what is currently happening. Anyway, to wrap up our first reason for not moving up, simply speaking, it was a lack of knowledge about our ability this year.

Secondly, as is always an issue money came into play big time for us. We were awarded $1000 from the school. That money is supposed to cover travel, league fees both A & B team, as well as any sort of equipment the team buys. (This year, for the first time we splurged and put money together to by 50 pucks, it will be the first time in my 4 years on this team that we have more then 15, and they all match!! No more mismatch pucks!!) :) As a team then, looked at the season from a hypothetical standpoint. If we play DI, and if we are lucky enough to be invited to nationals; logistically speaking, we would most likely turn our bid down. It is just too hard to justify spending that much money out of our pockets, when we realistically wouldn't have a chance to win. Call it pessimism if you like, I prefer realism. Therefore, it is difficult for us to want to compete in a league that we ultimately felt like we would have no shot at winning.

Finally, my understanding of the new league organization is that in order to pay DI a team must have among other things a coach on the bench. Granted, our coach Joe Nedelec (who has turned our program into something to be proud of) will be back this year. However, at the end of this year he is leaving. And things will go back to the way they were for the 10 years before Joe arrived, the team will be without a coach. Not only that, but without any prospects for a coach, he kind of just fell into our laps 3 years ago. furthermore, this seasons team will have 6 seniors including the goalie. It is hard to move a team up to DI, just to have it forced back down to DII the year after. Even that is assuming the team does not collapse after this year, which is still not out of the question.

Hopefully that has answered any and all reasons as to why Truman elected not to move up this year. As far as news about the team goes, we added two players to the "A" roster, a forward and a defensmen who can actually skate with Jimmy Dougherty, so hopefully he will stop bitching this year. Also we added 3 maybe 4 players to the "B" roster, who so far in practice looks like they are going to be quite competitive. Hopefully Tom will be able to arrange some inter-division play so we are able to skate against Lindenwood and Umsl again this year. Those two games were among our favorites last year. Losing to those two teams is certainly not a slap in the face, they are on a tier of their own when it comes to roller hockey in this country, we look forward to having another good skate. I just realized how long this post was so I better cut it of their, if anyone has any questions about our program then please feel free to email me,
[email protected]

Jonathon Watson
Truman State Hockey Club #18

[madfred]

MTour 71 the homophobe. On a serious note in reply to Jonathon Watson at Truman State, I was of the understanding that each Missouri University was able to contribute $5,000 to club sports. We have received that amount each year.

[jwatson18]

MTour 71 the homophobe. On a serious note in reply to Jonathon Watson at Truman State, I was of the understanding that each Missouri University was able to contribute $5,000 to club sports. We have received that amount each year.

My freshman year the team received 5000. However, I think that can mostly be attributed to the fact that one of the players on the team had connections with the Funds Allotment Board at our school. Since he has graduated, we have received no more then 1000, and they make it seem as though we are lucky to get that. At Truman, sports mean nothing. Hence, the reason why no one has ever heard of a Truman athletic team doing anything worth while. Their is NO funding for athletics here, especially club sports. So until the powers that be take some interest in athletics, namely club athletics, the players will have to continue to foot the bill.

[train]

since there are so many teams in d2, has there been any talk of breaking down the division into conferences like the ecrhl and sechrl does?

[catch]

Train- you better be at the library. Work is piling up for you here.
Just joking

jwatson18- MSU gives us $5000 each year. I believe UMST gets the same thing and perhaps SEMO as well. In fact I think there may be a regulation on that somewhere, i.e., I am not sure a school can give you less if you jump through the proper hoops and documents. I know our ice hockey, roller hockey and lacrosse teams each get $5000 and our schools have to be encmpossed by the same regulations.

[catch]

Additionally, Mtour71 is it M tour 71 or empty our 71 reflecting an IQ score? Do you read a lot of gay literature for comparison sake?

[jwatson18]

jwatson18- MSU gives us $5000 each year. I believe UMST gets the same thing and perhaps SEMO as well. In fact I think there may be a regulation on that somewhere, i.e., I am not sure a school can give you less if you jump through the proper hoops and documents. I know our ice hockey, roller hockey and lacrosse teams each get $5000 and our schools have to be encmpossed by the same regulations.

DO you have any idea where I could find information on the regulations?

[catch]

I am going to talk to the guy on our team tonight that handles and let you know what i find

[JLambertUMSL]

I am going to talk to the guy on our team tonight that handles and let you know what i find

The guy that handles what? Sounds questionable. Empty-our-71 might have a bit of a problem with that.

[catch]

yes I need to be specific so as not to offend MTOUR71. I was referencing the guy who handles our club financing. I did a little research on this and found that MSU's club sports, is funded through SOFAC, which comes from tuition. Each club is funded to the same extent up to $5000, which almost all take. Truman State is not funded through tuition, but rather, donations. I thought each school in Missouri was funded the same and in fact they should be, but it may well be that a school does not have to opt to fund club sports as long as they fund none directly. However, Truman does seem to fund other programs which are clubs through tuition. There is a big gap between $5000 and $1000, which greatly impacts the ability to play. I will get access to our file and see if I can come up with something regarding whether a school is required to fund a club sport up to $5000. I apologize to MTour71 if this post offends his reading capacity.

[MS&TMiners]

All of our funding comes through the campus student life office by means of a non-varsity sports fund. We have a meeting with STUCO and figure out how much we will spend that season and they appropriate funds accordingly. Last year we got $10,000. We should be getting more this year to get us new uniforms for the school name change. Funding is a big part of what division you play. It would be very difficult to field a team for us if it wasn't mostly paid for by the school.

Joe Altnether #12
MS&T Inline Hockey Club

[Mtour71]

yes I need to be specific so as not to offend MTOUR71. I was referencing the guy who handles our club financing. I did a little research on this and found that MSU's club sports, is funded through SOFAC, which comes from tuition. Each club is funded to the same extent up to $5000, which almost all take. Truman State is not funded through tuition, but rather, donations. I thought each school in Missouri was funded the same and in fact they should be, but it may well be that a school does not have to opt to fund club sports as long as they fund none directly. However, Truman does seem to fund other programs which are clubs through tuition. There is a big gap between $5000 and $1000, which greatly impacts the ability to play. I will get access to our file and see if I can come up with something regarding whether a school is required to fund a club sport up to $5000. I apologize to MTour71 if this post offends his reading capacity.

Catch, you're so funny. Actually, I wasn't talking about you talking about taking your program and making it stronger. The post got "gay" when you started talking about George Brett and the Kansas City Chiefs. If you want to gossip you and James should T9 eachother. James, I dont see anyone getting mad about how much money UMSL gets. You just looked like you were typing to try that new edition of spell check.

Catch, if you're so smart, you would know that Lindenwood doesn't give scholarships. Do your research before you bad mouth a program and the students that attend.

[Mtour71]

Catch Who do you think you are? Worry about yourself and graduating on time.
I just wanted to let you know that Lindenwood has standards. Sure back in the day there were a bunch of kids who weren't able to graduate.. Now a days, some kids can't even get in. I can name a hand full of kids that tried getting into LU and had to go else where because their scores weren't good enough..

[topshelf]

[/QUOTE]Catch, if you're so smart, you would know that Lindenwood doesn't give scholarships. Do your research before you bad mouth a program and the students that attend.[/QUOTE]

Lindenwood doesn't give scholarships? They must give something because why else would anyone want to live in Missouri unless they're already from there and don't know anything different!

[catch]

Mtour71 since I gave you a lot of grief I won't go into length criticizing you.
Please note 1) your schools web site indicates your school gives scholarships, in fact numerous, which I did look at prior to stating the same. Perhaps in athletics funding different aspects of your education may not be delineated as a scholarship, nevertheless there is no funding by any other unversity in the league for roller hockey and there is for yours; and 2) I know I one specific player on your team who has indicated their education was paid for through the school. Perhaps they were randomly lying for no apparent reason. Please point to where I "bad mouthed" your school. I simply stated a fact, that is supported by 1 and 2 above, as to why we did not play division I. Perhaps it offends you that we do not want to move up because we cannot compete at the same level for the reasons set out. Thats hardly criticizing your school, nor did I state anything acedemically about your school.

I suppose I should be terribly sorry for not sticking to the general topic at the beginning of the post because someone quite out of the blue would read it, be offended if I responded to a statement and brought up George Brett and the Chiefs and decided to state that was gay. Where exactly on the forums does it say that MTour71 decides when people need to text privately about topics that he may subsequently read and find boring to him. You know I don't see where I said anything offensive or "bad mouthed" anything until you decided to chime in with the "gay" word.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Catch,

Mtour71 obviously meant to say "happy."

Anyway, guys, this thread looks like it has gone off the rails and is about to slide further into the fire of flame wars. Please get it back on topic or I'll have to lock it up. (And then you can all start over again on another thread.) ;)

[catch]

Irrespective of Mtours happiness or lack thereof you need to leave the post open so I can look into the funding issue for Truman State. Mtour is obviously hacked off about some of the comments made about Lindenwood standards, education, etc. However, none of them were laid out by me.

[Mtour71]

I have no comment regarding any other school graduation rate other than Lindenwood. I have no idea what Lindenwood's rate is nor do I particularly care. The only reason I believe it is relevant is that they dispense scholarships and from my perspective that changes everything. When you pay someone's way through school in exchange for sports the graduation rate counts.

Our roster, at least initially, will be much the same as last year with a few solid young players. While your point about UMSL and MSU being on the same level playing as they are both states schools there is one tremendous difference. We are 200 miles from St. Louis. Other than 3 over the course of 6-7 seasons every player we have is from St. Louis. UMSL is able to go to high school games scout and recruit. We have no ability to do that amidst 50-70 hour work weeks and 400 mile round trips. I am not knocking UMSL for doing that just see that as part of why we are where we are. This year and next year frankly we could play Division I and compete with UMST and Mizzou. I don't think that we can compete with UMSL or Lindenwood nor, given our dependence on all walk ons, would we last if we didn't succeed, i.e. have a 4-16 type year.

You didn't bad mouth Lindenwood? What are you trying to say at the beginning of this post? For someone who hasn't attended LU, you sure seem to know a lot about them. They aren't called scholarships, they're grants. A lot of which has to do with the financial aid received to each student. Almost every student that attends that school gets some kind of grant. They have a work off part of your tuitioon program as well that covers over 2000 dollars per year. Kids that go to the school and want to sound important to their friends say they got a scholarship, but thats not the case. I'm not calling you a liar about what your friend said, and I'm sure he got some grant money, but he didn't get a scholarship. There are other schools in roller hockey that fund students. Get your facts straight. This is going no where and sorry if I really affended you by saying your comments were gay!

[catch]

MTour it is obvious to me you didn't understand what I meant at the beginning of that post and now I can see why you took offense. Be they grants or scholarships I don't think that fundamentally changes much. The point I was making was that because Lindenwood funds their students and attracts students by that means what graduation rate they have is relevant just as it is in an NCAA sponsored sport. By comparison other schools in the Great Plains have no funding and thus whoever is enrolled is eligible to play. Because enrollment is the lone criteria used in other programs, i.e., take 9 hours, it isn't relevant to look at graduation rates at those programs. As I said I don't know nor do I care what Lindenwoods graduation rate is, not as a means of trashing Lindenwood, but rather, as the others posting were discussing graduation rates I was pointing out it does not matter as there is no point of comparison. Since I don't know what Lindenwood's graduation rate, nor does anyone else writing about them, there is no point discussing it. Frankly, I don't know much acedemically about Lindenwood nor am I knocking anybody for going there for sports or acedemics. MSU cannot compete with a school like yours in hockey. We have no means to attract people to play hockey or recruit. We have nothing to lure in students because the school offers no financial support to students for playing hockey. This is in essence the point being made. I either was not clear or you misinterpretated what I wrote.

You didn't really offend me I was just taking an opportunity to poke fun at what you said. I am sarcastic for the sake of being funny and when I write as if I am mad its really in jest. To be frank about it I post humor on this forum for the sake of entertainment to interrupt what is an otherwise difficult day.

[ianmackie]

Lindenwood does give grants, but they are based on need and grades. If you are rich with horrible grades then it is likely that you will get very little. One thing that we have to deal with that no other school does is the standards for all the students. The students must keep a certain grade level, keep within the rules of the school, and stay within the team rules. They can kick you out over any infraction. This is something that the players know and we have played without players for weekends and semesters due to this. I actually am a fan of this and wished that every school could do the same with the money and standards.

Everyone knows that it is tough to be a student organization...or any organization right now. The economy sucks and schools are cutting back. Keep fighting the fight guys.

Finally, I am not a fan of only having 4 teams in D1, but I also get it. If all the teams named would move up together then that would be better then asking just one. Teams can change in our sport based on one player, or goalie!, and that makes this different then any other sport. You add a PJ Tallo to UMSL and look what happens. If another stud from the sport goes to Truman, SLU, Mizzou, etc. then we will see the same effect. Look at O'Rourke last year for SLU. It is tough to look ahead when sometimes you find out about the super studs at tryouts. Recruiting does help a ton, but a lot of schools are players led and getting from school to St. Louis is always tough. I run MOIHA and maybe we can work something out this year to help all the in-State schools out. Just some ideas that can help you guys...our pre-season tourny could also include all the in-state teams and they can promote from the tourny, I can pick different weekends that would be blocked for certain schools and they can do what they want with them, or even working school awards for the players based on what the school is known for; Mizzou for Journalism, UMSL for Teaching and Nursing, etc. Just some ideas.

Give me an email at [email protected] and let's brainstorm. I am sorry that I coach for LU, but I am a purist for the sport and in reality support all.

Just my two cents and I am now done rambling.

[GoRangrHky]

Don't forget the cattle for credits program!

Anyway, the NCAA doesn't use graduation rates any more. And their retention analysis only applies to those students that are given grants-in-aid (NCAA institutions do not give their student-athletes athletic 'scholarships' either, so please don't make the term 'grant' that Lindenwood uses seem to mean more than what other institution do), so walk-ons are not counted against that total, regardless of whether they return or not.


One thing that we have to deal with that no other school does is the standards for all the students
I'll be sure to let those gentlemen that play for the United States Military Academy know that they have not quite reached the academic or conduct standards that Lindenwood is at. And I'm sure that they don't put that strong an emphasis on academics at any of the Ivy League schools either, but I'll let the Cornell players jump in on that one, and I'll have my Harvard players explain it to you next year.

[ianmackie]

So, these schools give their student athlete's grants for roller hockey too? That's great!

You missed my point and obviously want to make your own. The players are held to standards because of the grants. As far as I know the rules in the NCRHA only state that you must take 9 hours. There is no rule as of now that says you must get a certain GPA or grades in those classes. LU does hold the players accountable beyond any other student that is not an athlete at the school. You are confusing the accountability of all students as opposed to just the ones that play in the NCRHA.

I am sure you will respond and tell me that I am incorrect, but I believe we just have some confusion here.

Carry on...

[GoRangrHky]

Well, in most cases, in order to eligible to participate in club activities (which roller hockey falls under at the majority of the NCRHA institutions), students MUST be in good academic standing. What this means for each school varies, but I have yet to hear of a school that explicitly permits students that are failing to participate.

I would assume that the reason the NCRHA has no academic policy (other than that students must be permitted by their schools to play) is because they have neither the time nor the resources to facilitate checking the academic standing of each and every player. As it is, the NCAA relies on the individual institutions to accurately report the standing of each student-athlete, and only in the case where a substantial claim is made (or there is reason to believe that the information provided is inaccurate) do they do any sort of additional research. So the NCRHA making a rule that they would be unable to enforce would not do anyone any good.

Regardless, if you expect anyone here to ultimately feel sorry for the Lindenwood players (which it seems like to me is the underlying theme) because you are a. not allowed to fail classes, or b. expected to act like varsity athletes when you are treated by your school as such, I think you would be hard pressed to find a tear hitting a keyboard.


PS- in the case of Army, they are in fact required to perform above and beyond the standard responsibilities of a cadet in order to be allowed to participate

[ianmackie]

Yeah, that was exactly what I was looking for...others to feel sorry for us. That is why I offered all the Missouri schools help in the same thread.

The grade issue would not be that hard to implement within the regions. It would bring credibility to our sport and to each player.

I am a big fan of making roller hockey a sport that has rules and accountability. I hate the fact that we settle on so many instances for the easiest answer or result. I feel the same way with the local game as well. If a person walks into the rink I manage on any given Adult League they see a game being played without matching jerseys. Will they really want to give our sport a shot? We have settled for this result, but it is changing in the future. I know this is off topic, but I feel it relates to the grade issue. Let's have standards...start them low and have them raise over time.

Oh well...sometimes I think too much and wish for somethings to change that may never actually happen.

[RustyPipes27]

Lindenwood does give grants, but they are based on need and grades.

Yeah, the need for roller hockey players.

[ianmackie]

Yeah, the need for roller hockey players.

Haha. A much needed laugh. Thanks.

[MS&TMiners]

Lets not forget the engineers at MS&T(UMR). All you guys with your brains and your hockey talent are welcome here in Rolla. Play some hockey and make the big bucks.

Joe Altnether #12
MS&T Inline Hockey Club

[The Stiff]

Catch:

As a parent of an LU player, I can definitely tell you that the grant money had nothing to do with his decision to enroll and play hockey at LU. The "program" was 100% the motivating factor. The desire to play for Lindenwood — because of its tradition — was the only factor in his decision to apply there. I think you are off base in your argument that LU is LU only because it offers scholarships.

The issue here, I believe, is how do we get other programs up to LU's level? How do we get players to want to play roller hockey in college? The answer is not to drop down to D2. The answer is build up the programs at the D1 level.

From what I can tell, this might be the last year of the LU "dynasty." They graduate an awlful lot of players at the end of this season. The opportunity for another school to step up is right around the corner.

[Mtour71]

From what I can tell, this might be the last year of the LU "dynasty." They graduate an awlful lot of players at the end of this season. The opportunity for another school to step up is right around the corner.

I wouldn't count on that.

[GoRangrHky]

The desire to play for Lindenwood — because of its tradition — was the only factor in his decision to apply there.

Which makes it even MORE obvious that academics plays no part in the decision of many of these players, which to me is extremely unfortunate.

[catch]

The Stiff- I did not say LU is LU solely because of scholarships. I simply said we cannot compete with LU because we have nothing to offer students. You know if you read back through this post you will find a number of other people criticized LU. I simply put forth why we did not desire to move to Division I. If you look at state school rosters you will note they are filled with players from St. Louis. LU is not. This would be because we have no capacity to bring in or look at people from other states. You do realize the premise of my original point was why we have chosen not to take MSU to division I. It is rather absurd to argue with that position, unless you believe you are better suited to decide what course of action our school takes.

Truman State- On to an enlightening relevant topic there are state regulations which govern Central Missouri state and Mizzou. What I am finding is that most other schools have funded club sports through tuition and as a result there was litigation or pre-litigation settlement at some juncture in the early 90's requiring each such institution to disperse the funding in a non-discriminatory manner. I assume something transpired at Central Mo. St. which lead to the issue and in turn lead to a coded state regulation. Other schools who utilize like funding have avoided similar disputes by creating internal organizations such as SOFAC (as utilized at MSU) which comply with the rule and thus avoid any potential for running into inequality in funding. Most schools utilize a $5,000 cap, which is the maximum that an individual club can ask for in any year. However, Truman State does not utilize school funding to pay for club sports, but rather utilizes private funding. As it is private funding there is no requirement as to its disbursement. Private funding is not subject to government regulation in most instances.

[jwatson18]

That is what I was expecting to hear. It is just one of those situations that happens when you go to such a small institution. I appreciate you putting your time and effort into finding more for us. Regardless of funding, we are anxiously awaiting the start of the season and hopefully a game that will result in something other than a tie against Mo State. Best of luck throughout the season to all of the teams in great plains regardless of their division. Cheers.


Jonathon Watson
Truman State Hockey Club #18