Professional Roller Hockey...Ways to succeed

[Inline_Burl]

Professional Roller Hockey 2008 and on...

They are many ways to make true Professional Roller Hockey work, but there a lot that don't.


Start by running the League like an 'A' Ice Hockey League (EPHL & MAHL).
Play in smaller arenas with no more than 2,000 seats (keep arena costs down)
Similar to NLL play players, but not enough for them to live off of. (Players would keep day jobs, lessen salary costs)
Play a 14 game schedule and only on weekends (similar to NLL)
The league must be full contact and fighting must be allowed. Roller Hockey is already a very skilled game. Just because there is checking does not mean the skill will disappear. People want to see hitting plain and simple.
Place franchises in Roller hockey hot beds.
Set up leagues such as the AIHL, and the PIHA that can serve as a feeder system.
Play showcase All-star games all over the country during the off season to boost the buzz about Roller Hockey.
Get agreements with NHL, AHL, ECHL, IHL, and SPHL to be the league summer training programs. Roller Hockey improves your ice hockey game.
Get Agreements with those same leagues to promote your league.
In the end in your market establish a fan base, acknowledge your minor and junior roller teams, and advertise! Advertise! Advertise! Get your name out there.
Make everything from your website and logos/jerseys look PRO (be original and get a professional to create your logos for you)

[Inline_Burl]

Possible Locations:
Jamestown Savings Bank Ice Arena (1,900) Jamestown, New York.
Buffalo State Sports Arena (1,800) Buffalo New York

???

[TULaw]

I think those are all great ideas. I think there are many CHL, ECHL and college hockey arenas that could work for a true professional league.

[quick_dry]

I think more definition needs to go into what people mean by "allow fighting".

Do you mean peaopl are encouraged to fight, and 'enforcers' are important positions on the roster? or do you mean that two willing combatants can go at it hammer and tong without getting a suspension for the rest of the season? Maybe a major plus game and that is it?

[MrCanada]

I am thinking more like every player can fight twice in a game.

On the 2nd occasion, you get a 5 major for fighting a 10 misc. and a game misc. for 2nd fight of the game.

No suspension!

[Wingman]

I am thinking more like every player can fight twice in a game.

On the 2nd occasion, you get a 5 major for fighting a 10 misc. and a game misc. for 2nd fight of the game.

No suspension!A Game misconduct penalty is a suspension.

If fighting is allowed I think it should be a 5 minute match penalty. It's only 5 minutes but the guy is out for the rest of the game.

[cal16]

For this to happen, it would have to become a summer sport, and currently everyone refuses to do it in the summer.

Its unfortunate that these ignorant people wont switch over. They complain that the tournament series are more important.. "oh no..I cant miss NARCH"

Well personally I would rather see the game move to a higher level than pay someone to go to the same tournament every year.

...Great ideas though Inline Burl.

[Bfoster]

These ideas are great. However I know a lot of players don't want a full check game but your right in that hitting attracts massive numbers of fans. It wouldn't need to be a great deal though I played a few PIHA games where the refs were really leniant and allowed just about everything with the exception of open floor truck runs. The fans loved it and as far as fighting goes, treat it like the NHL. 5 min major, and if owners and gm's want to open an enforcer spot on the roster so be it. It's a part of hockey, it always will be and everyone knows when you tell someone who doesn't know much about hockey that you play, their first response is always, "do you fight?"

[TULaw]

Yeah a professional league like the one we are talking of could only work during the summer, it just wouldnt make sense to compete with Ice Hockey. Once you start paying players you will have no problem getting them away from the tournaments. Also I dont buy the argument that PIHA players wouldnt play in a full contact league, once you offer them a pay check that would change quickley. Another thing is I believe that if there is a pro league that pays its likely that most current PIHA players wouldnt be able to make onto the rosters if they have to compete against players who are currently playing minor league ice hockey who would likey be drawn to such a league by the prospect of additional pay during the off season.

[Inline_Burl]

Fights...
(Don't encourage, but don’t abolish)
1st: 5 Min
2nd: 5 Min + out remainder of game
2nd fight third period: 5 Min + another game
Instigator rule removed
No roster spot for goon

Other things I was thinking were....

Have music playing during games, some games will get boring...but there needs to be more things in the arena where fans won’t fall sleep.
All minor penalties be 2:00, but in overtime all minor penalties be 1:00
In case of a tie overtime would be 4on4 five minute sudden death overtime, if no one scored after five minutes 3 player shootout would start.
Start with medium to low ticket prices and incentives to get peoples butts in the seats. (There is nothing people like more than free ****, and they will come from anywhere to get it)
Have in game entertainment...Dancers, Mascots, and bands playing in the arena corner during the game.
Have a highly recognizable trophy, something everyone will go "I have to win this trophy!" Make it big make it flashy.
Have a team in Anaheim and call them the Bullfrogs (that seems to be the only RHI team people remember)
Get Point streak.
Playoffs would be one game elimination.
Have player autographs after the game; let the fans get to know the players.



As for "oh no! I’ll miss NARCH" since it’s in the summer try drawing players from the professional ice ranks to come play. The NHL, ECHL, IHL, CHL, OHL have a lot of roller hockey players.

Really for this to work the only real big coats would be the travel and maybe the equipment....unless you can get roller hockey manufactures on board.


Arena Costs: 2,000 seat arenas are a lot less expensive than 4,000-10,000 seat arenas
Players Costs: Since all players will need to keep their day job, player salaries will be low.
Travel Costs: The most expensive part
Equipment Costs: Get manufactures on board to supply equipment
Advertisement: Another thing each team and the league need to put major money into.


All the Pro Roller Hockey League have been doing it wrong. RHI, To big to fast...MLRH...unprofessional and the PIHA and AIHL have said that it needs to be grass roots...that’s fine but grass roots only gets you so far. I mean the PIHA and AIHL can keep doing what they’re doing and get people into the sport on a community level, but you need a nationally recognized league for players to look forward to; I believe that is the only way to get our sport out there. It's like lacrosse, virtually unpopular until the NLL and the MLL came out and boosted interest.
Once you establish the league and start getting on TV and in the Newspaper and all over the internet, people will take notice.

[Inline_Burl]

As for PIHA making it over Minor Pro guys...not all ice hockey players are good at roller hockey. There are alot of guys in the PIHA that could beat the minor pro hockey player for a roller hockey roster spot.

[VaInline]

Question for Inline_Burl: how do you enforce the "no roster spot for goon"?

Very tough to enforce that I would imagine. How do you define a "goon" without letting him play? See my point.

I like the idea of full contact hockey. I like the idea of the occasional scrap. Both of those things have entertainment value and will draw fans into the building. But I also like the idea of limiting the violence with a second major penalty game ejection rule.

[TULaw]

As for PIHA making it over Minor Pro guys...not all ice hockey players are good at roller hockey. There are alot of guys in the PIHA that could beat the minor pro hockey player for a roller hockey roster spot.

Well this is simply my opinion and many might disagree with me but the best Roller Hockey players are not playing in PIHA but are playing in leagues where they get paid which is minor ice. Once a paying roller hockey league is established many of these guys will return to roller hockey making it tougher for many of the PIHA guys to make onto rosters. But you are right not all Ice players turn into good Roller players, though for most its not that hard of a transition. It is easier then a pure roller player switching to Ice.

[Alvare71]

Its all depends how you define a goon, but if you have an enforcer on each team it cancels each other out.

Hockey fans are used to fighting and it is very important in the game of a hockey.....

I mean, I have played and watched a non check league and my opinion it is very boring....

And plus you have refferees who have to decide what a hit is and isnt

Can you rub along the boards or hold......it just makes the game more complicated.

[TULaw]

While I believe that hitting is necessary for any future Pro league to succeed. As far as fighting is concerned I dont think it is absolutley necessary. I think a 5 min major for the first fight and a game misconduct for the 2nd would be a good rule though.

[TULaw]

Just wanted to add a thought about potential markets. I believe the best bet would be to focus inline hockey hotbeds and areas that did well with the RHI in the past such as Anahiem as well as Ice Hockey hot beds as I believe Inline Hockey could do for Hockey what Arena Football does for Football. Give the die hard fan something to do in the off season. I would avoid markets that Ice Hockey is currently having a hard time in as it is unlikely that folks who arnt willing to give the Ice game a chance would turn around and give the Inline game a shot. Though again I could be wrong.

[Alvare71]

While I believe that hitting is necessary for any future Pro league to succeed. As far as fighting is concerned I dont think it is absolutley necessary. I think a 5 min major for the first fight and a game misconduct for the 2nd would be a good rule though.

I agree, i dont think it should be a fight club, but as one of my old coaches used to tell me it is still entertainment...

[Inline_Burl]

Limiting enforcers is simple. Many minor pro leagues have players around with this idea and it seems from change season to season depending on what the league wants. All they do is change the allowed amount per roster. Traditionally its 21 and the 21st player is usually an enforcer. Limit the number of players to eighteen or nineteen and you will not see teams stack up on goons. As for the fighting again dont encoutage fighting but dont cut it right out. If two guys want to scrap let them go to town, but line brawls and bench clearing brawls should be punished.

[Bfoster]

reguarding whether piha players or pro/minor ice players would take roster spots...

i posted this on another thread but ill say it again...the talent gap between "professional" inline hockey and pro ice hockey is immense. (again, im not tryin to look down on anyone or put any piha players down, i myself play piha and am surprised i can call myself a pro inline player) However, take brian yingling for example...some say one of the best inline players on the planet right? well he played d3 collegiate ice hockey...D3..not even d1. guys that are playing minor league ice hockey mostly have played d1 and would quickly run show, especially if the league created incorporated a full check game.

also...if a league is run, put inline_burl in charge...he seems to know what path to follow..haha

[MrCanada]

I totally agree with you BFoster.

I would love to attend a pro camp, full contact and fighting with any pro or semi-pro ice player.

It would be awesome!

[TULaw]

Plus its not like the days of RHI where guys were playing Inline for the first time. There are lots of minor ice players who grew up playing Inline and know the game well. a true pro league would be drawing from a completley different talent pool.

[BourneRoller]

I think this is the most productive threads regarding pro inline i've seen in a long time. There seems to be a weird buzz lately. I really hope we can get something tangible and intelligent together. I agree with many things on this thread:
- contact is essential for fans
- fighting is part of the sport (though I think should be controlled a bit more than the NHL)
- technology is much more useful then when the RHI was around. Make all the games viewable online. Make player profiles. Allow people from all over the world be able to follow the league, their favorite team or player.
- the biggest part is the league NEEDS to be in the summer for sure. The connection with ice hockey being compared to Arena vs NFL football is a good one. If I was a semi-pro or minor-pro ice player I would jump all over a little extra cash and training in the summer. Get paid to train!
- AIHL or PIHL is something but not the ultimate goal.

I think a better managed RHI could work again. I also would like to comment on the ice vs inline player thing. I think that there would still be a huge number of ice players, but I think because inline is so much better than
it has been that there would be a much bigger group of inline only players that could do really well.
In my opinion either a real pro league or acceptance into the olympics is essential to the success of inline over the long run.
Keep the ideas coming!

[TULaw]

While I believe a league similar to RHI could work here is where I think It would need to be different.

Single entity ownership, similar to Major League Soccer seems to be a good model. each team would have an investor/operator but essentially all the teams would be league owned.

Start small 8-12 teams and limit expansion. Try not to grow too fast, I would say adding 2 teams every 2 to 4 years would be ideal. I would play in smaller College Hockey and Minor league arenas. there are alot more newer and smaller facilites being built all over the country for CHL and ECHL teams. for example back in the days of RHI the Denver DareDevils really only had the option of playing at McNichols arena in denver which held 16,000 and I believe the DareDevils avg. was somewhere around 6,000. Today a pro roller hockey club would have better options such as the Broomfield Event Center which holds around 5,000 or Magness Arena on the Campus of the University of Denver which seats around 5,000 as well.

Target markets that did well in the past with RHI teams as well as as markets that do well with professional Ice Hockey. If possible teams should have marketing agreements with the local Ice team.

Market the team to amature Inline players and families as well as Ice Hockey fans. these would be your targert groups. Teams should also become heavily involved in youth hockey and the local rinks and form programs to introduce new kids to the game for the first time with little to no cost.

No gimmicks as far as how the game is played. Stick to the game of Roller Hockey we all know with the addition of full contact. So no ramps or small rinks with goals in the dasher boards.

As mentioned before you need to make the league look as professional as possible. With major league sounding nicknames and logos. I would bring back some of the more popular RHI nicknames if possible, Such as Anahiem Bullfrogs, San Jose Rhinos and St.Louis Vipers.

These are just some ideas, I might add more later as ideas come to me and feel free to add more if you feel you have some good ideas. I agree that this seems to be an exciting time in Inline Hockey. with all of these small minor league arenas beeing built i am sure somewhere there are investors thinking of starting an Inline league to fill their venues, its only a matter of time before it happens. Lets just hope when and if this happens that this time the owners are alot smarter and avoid the mistakes RHI made back in the day.

[Bfoster]

i think one of the best ways to start would be to make sure actual season games are played in the rinks and during the times of major tournaments such as narch, aau nationals and usa inline nationals. that would attract tons of fans...every u16 and under kid playing in those tournaments would go and bring with the their parents, brothers and sisters...massive amounts of revenue would be generated as well as make a bigger impact to the community the games were held in.

also, after the games you could do what the local junior ice hockey team does here in town, skate with the players after games...this allows fans to talk with the players on a personal level, skate with their favorites and get autographs as well as advice and tips...again, for pro sports to work, they have to reach out to the community

[MrCanada]

When I played MLRH, we would give away 6-7 t-shirts to the kids during our games.

After the games kids and their familly (but most of the time only the kids) would come in the dressing room, meet the players and get their shirt autographs.

I remember one afternoon, me and 4-5 other players we skated with some kids, they loved it, we played a little 3 on 3.

[GR8SK8r06]

This is a cool thread but like it was earlier addressed its hard to have full contact in a league where many of the guys dont know how to properly check! We would end up having guys checking from behind and throwing elbows all day!! If you have Pro ice guys that know what they are doing it could work along with fighting but only as long as they are getting paid. But in these "pro" or elite leagues it is hard to monitor and impliment fighting and checking because a lot of the players dont know what they are doing and they could seriously hurt someone! If and when there is an actual pro league where the guys get paid then there could be checking and fighting and that would be cool. Yet now everyone has jobs to go to in the morning so as of now that isn't a possibility. But some good points though guys!

[BourneRoller]

I had an idea last night:
What about a Red Bull type sponsored league? Like the Red Bull Air Races idea for roller hockey. After a while the PIHA/AIHL/ARHL/XIHL/IHA/RHI/NHL/NBA/NFL/IHL/AHL all start to sound alike. What if we did something to set inline apart. That's what I would be looking to do if I was a major investor. Call it the "Red Bull ProRoll" or something. I think that one of the things that attracted me to Inline is the culture. Obviously the game would have to be the centre and be solid. But you could make it a bit of a festival thing. Have manufacturers booths, Red Bull booths with events, and other companies aside from hockey stuff. You could have life bands playing before and after as well as in-between periods. Have local bands come and mix music with sport. You could even have things like a bikini contest. I know what you're thinking, family atmosphere. But look at wakeboard or skateboard festivals, kids everywhere and they still have stuff like that. (you could even hold that after the last game to give the families a chance to go home.)
Lets say there was ten teams. Hold ten weekends, with all ten teams traveling to each one. Then there would be five games a day. As a customer you could by a day or a festival pass to watch all the games. Rush seating as well as some reserved stuff for bigger buyers and investors. You could make it like race day at the Indy or Nascar. Boards up with up-to-date standings so you could see how the last game effected things.
I would love an event like this. I think it could have.....wings. Sorry.

[MDE3]

In a paid league with checking..you will only have players who know how to check...just from the team selection process.

I have repeated this post at least 10 times over the past 10 years....

Learning to play the game of hockey(any version) with checking is a good thing..for the simple reason that by playing full check hockey, a player either becomes a better skater and stick handler..or stops playing (at that level). and for those of you that think the elite players from the inline side, are capable of staying with the minor ice hockey players....many are...why?...If you look carefully, you will find they also played minor league pro or junior level ice hockey...

Learning the skating techniques that allows you to throw, or avoid a check, ultimately makes you a much more versatile hockey player, both defensively as well as offensively. When learning full contact hockey...there is NO SUSTITUTE for learning to stick handle by feel, and not by using your eyes..your eyes are for watching the flow of the game, the position of teamates, and opposing players, NOT the puck.

I have seen many players make it to the PIHA levels of hockey, and still skate with the puck with their head placed so they can always see it...a luxury full contact at a higher level will never afford them.

Making a good check against a skilled skater who's head is on the proverbial swivel, is not an easy task, and one that takes many years of proper training to effect. So higher level ice hockey players come to the sport of "full contact professional inline hockey" with a huge advantage..years of training in an environment, that "inline only" players have never seen.

There are so many specific skating skills required to position yourself to make or take a check without losing your balance, or over committing your position, that without this background, an "inline only" player will find it progressively more difficult to ascend the skill ladder..no matter how great a "dangler" they may be in non contact verions of the sport.

The solutions to be intitiated simultaneously....

A) start teaching full contact inline techniques to kids (beginning age 10)..or at least the skill sets necessary to be able to play the game that way.

B) have a series of league sponsored evaluation clinics, which if passed, will certify a player as qualified to play at the full contact level, and carry a "pro card". This process will itself become a substantial money maker for the league, as well as help indemify the league from any injury liabilities which may result from unqualified players being allowed to compete in a full contact league... where without this pre-qualification their participation might be allowed based primarily on their demonstrated offensive skills while only playing non-contact hockey.

And for the biggest proponent of "non contact" inline hockey..Mr. Yoder, who argues constantly for the "purety" of the inline game...ask him if he thinks his boys would be where they are now if they never played minor pro ice hockey.

[MDE3]

Unfortunately fighting in hockey has become so ingrained..for better or for worse...that it will probably never go away.

The history of fighting in the sport can be traced back to the days of unsupervised kids hockey, where inevitably there was a beef, where someone was abused with the stick, or simply shoved around unecessarily....if a kid did not stand up for themselves when it happened, with no adults to intervene, it typically continued. Because these games typically included players from say 7 years old to 16 years old in the same game, there was an obvious opportunity for bullying to run rampant (intimidation)...so typically an older player on your own team if you were lucky, would step in when you as a 7 year old were about to get mauled by a 14 year old..(enforcer). Younger kids who stood up for themselves..even though they took some serious lumps..were revered in local hockey lore...at school or at the rink...

So the "macho" image of hockey grew up from the "pond" hockey days, and continued.

Personally while I don't believe that fighting has to be in the game for it to succeed, there are far too many who feel that the macho part of the game is so indigenous that it cannot be let go. This "machismo" however should NOT include having players who's primary responsibility is to intimidate players who are not so inclined....this leads to players taking extreme measures to defend themselves, or everybody having a dedicated "bully". If the game is to be truly macho(in the sense of "noble" if that is possible)...then when two players develop a beef..they have at it...and it's over....Keep the enforcers and paid assassins out of the league. How..well frequency of events..if a player has more than two fights per 10 games..he get's the heave..out of the league.

[HockeyFan1989]

I personally feel that if the AIHL uses the "event/festival" scheduling system it will have a better chance to succeed. I think that it makes it more exciting for fans to be able to watch 5 or 6 different teams in a weekend, rather than back to back games with the home team and the opposing team as in PIHA. And same for the players, it's awesome to go to an arena, and play a couple of different teams in a weekend. I also feel that you can add more games to a season, which I hope to see done, and I think that it would be easier to have updated stats/scores for the site, as typically you would probably have a league coordinator or two at each event/festival to do that, like the NCRHA does. It also gives potential sponsors more of a reason to want to sponsor, because they know their will be many people at these events. I also do not think it is a good idea, and probably not even neccessary with the event style of scheduling, to add 8 or 9 expansion teams each season. Either way I hope to see this in the AIHL.

[DannyG]

Everything Mike says above works, although I might disagree with hm on the importance of ice at all in the equation...inline must make it's own road.

The guy above who pointed to the Arena Football League as a model is right on...a multimillion dollar program from a cocktail napkin in Denver one night...

There are a bajillion business models to work this after...but very few sports organization models that have worked. I myself have been involved in a couple of really good failures. Look up the Victoria Football League in Austrailia, and note that it took them about 75 years to go from what the PIHA was two years ago to what the AHL is now.

here we go, if only to simplify:

1. Make the game the commodity to sell, and actively sell it on it's merit.

2. Pattern nothing after the past, whether it worked or not. Take successful parts, yeah, but make this thing it's own thing.

3. Ownership must be unit-independent, bonded to the group organization, and all must benefit for one to benefit. I honestly feel this single point is where the AIHA will fail, and also where the PIHA has been limited in it's success.

4. The player's union must be strictly honored, and included in all aspects of organization operation and planning. Players must be paid, the pay scale is open for discussion.

5. Market specialization is key, and must fit specifc criteria...market size, location, regional proximity, etc...

6. only full-time, committed people in the operations section of any given franchise will be successful...period.

I wish good luck to the AIHA guys, I hope that they succeed. It is my understanding that our local boys have made some level of AIHA commitment. My family will contiue to support our local franchise in every way we can, including our wallets.

Sinceremente,

Danny G

[hckypop02]

As the voice of the Nor Cal Mustangs this year we did some fun things during the games. We played music, had give aways and really got the fans involved.
We will continue to be aggressive and think outside the box as we have a great group of folks in the front office. As for the players and their comments we tried to make it as professional as we could and I really enjoyed announcing for them and had fun with it also. It was a great experience and I look forward to next season.

[Hystyk28]

Real professional roller hockey is not a viable commercial product. Hell, the NHL is barely viable product.

[TULaw]

The way I see it, If soccer and indoor lacrosse can become viable professional products so can Inline Hockey. We have already had a glimpse of what is possible with Inline Hockey through the old RHI.

[CoachClipboard]

I think the word viable was mentioned, and you retort with RHI?

Vi-a-ble:
capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state> c (1): having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2): financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>

Not to be crass, but I dont believe we have had a viable product in roller hockey to date.

How is that for a short Todd Wiley post, Rock!??!! ...LOL

[DannyG]

When I played in my first USAHIL Inline Cup tourney in '97, I looked around the Sands Expo, and realized that I didn't have enough tatoos or body piercings to become a top flight roller hockey star...and the guy players were even more so...every sport has it's own peculiar niche following.


regarding market viability, it's all niche-relative...if Arena Football and women's roller derby can find an audience, then I believe that roller hockey can, as long as it finds an image of it's product.

I simply suggest that the image be "clean," (in the marketing sense), free from hype-debris, and let the game stand on it's own merit...and it will.

following the above brevity expample?

[TULaw]

I do belive RHI had a viable product, I dont believe the problem had aything to do with the product it self but more to do with the ownership and the league. When marketed we saw that people were willing to attend pro roller hockey. Here in Denver when we had the DareDevils for a single season I attended their home opener which had around 12,000 people in the stands and they had an avg. attendence of 6,000 or so.
All I was trying to say was that from the example of RHI we know that when there is at least some kind of marketing people are willing to watch pro roller hockey.

[hockeydude9788]

I do belive RHI had a viable product, I dont believe the problem had aything to do with the product it self but more to do with the ownership and the league. When marketed we saw that people were willing to attend pro roller hockey. Here in Denver when we had the DareDevils for a single season I attended their home opener which had around 12,000 people in the stands and they had an avg. attendence of 6,000 or so.
All I was trying to say was that from the example of RHI we know that when there is at least some kind of marketing people are willing to watch pro roller hockey.
what is so wrong with PIHA, the yoders have done what looks to be an awesome job in the foundation of a Professional Hockey league

[ACCCT2]

Real professional roller hockey is not a viable commercial product. Hell, the NHL is barely viable product.

NONSENSE. Paid-to-play (real) "professional" inline hockey is definitely a "viable product". And as much as there's a lot wrong with the NHL, a 2.5 BILLION dollar revenue monster can hardly by any stretch of the imagination be called a "barely viable product".

IMO, "DannyG" is close in his assessments of what will and won't work. The single most important truth is that whatever's done about a truly "professional" league, it should be totally original and polished in terms of actual league/game concept, scope and execution. And believe it or not, a $10,000 - $20,000 per-player-per-year paid-to-play "pro" league wouldn't be as expensive or daunting an undertaking as one might imagine. In fact, there already are some seriously interested (and deep-pocketed) hockey people already considering just such a paid-to-play "pro" inline hockey endeavor. Stay tuned.

[DCbullets14]

After spending the weekend at the euro cup I dont think that it is possible to market their style of gameplay. Mainly because of the offsides and icing rules that were used. This completly slowed the games down and made the games very boring to watch. From what I heard in the stands most people were enjoying making fun of some of the guys more than they were actually enjoying the hockey.

As far as the check thing I have yet to play full contact roller and I never will especially after watching everything this weekend. Half the players on the rink couldnt throw a clean hit to save their lives and instead resorted to repeated 2 handed slashes to the back of a players legs. (for more info check out frank's post under the euro cup thread)

Maybe there are players out there that would consider MLRH and similar full contact leagues hockey but I found it to be a complete joke. If anyone tries to make this a serious league I wish them the best of luck but I doubt you will find any of the true elite players playing in that league, and without those players no inline league will ever be a success.

[RichardGraham]

Hi ACCCT2,

More thoughtful and valuable posts like this and you might harm your reputation with many IHC readers. ;)

[RichardGraham]

Hi DCbullets14,

I have to respectfully disagree with some of your statements. Although I'm not certain whether I like the center-line offsides stoppages any more than I like the cherry-picking style of play that can result without it, there weren't that many offsides plays called. I do think that the icing rule could be dispensed with, however.

The boring games weren't boring because of the rules, as much as they were boring because some of the teams didn't crash the net, or because of constant discussions about penalties between the referees and players at the scorers' table. Those long delays were complete momentum killers and need to be dealt with, post-haste.

Since you haven't played full-contact roller (neither have I) and you are probably too young to have watched Roller Hockey International (sadly, I'm not), you should know that RHI had checking and people loved it. Don't throw out the (bruised) baby with the bathwater. ;)

Also, I only saw the blatant slashes you mention in one game of the tournament. You can't judge the entire event on that game. There are many things to judge the entire event upon, but not that one game.

More on that later, in my wrap up article, which I hope to work on at the airport later today. It's now 4:13 a.m. EST. I'm outta here.

[DCbullets14]

Thanks for the response Richard.

"Also, I only saw the blatant slashes you mention in one game of the tournament. You can't judge the entire event on that game. There are many things to judge the entire event upon, but not that one game."

You are correct Richard but the way I look at it is that the league/event is only as strong as its weakest link, which in this case was some 300 pound guy who didnt see the court until it was time to attempt to injure another player.

I do not deny that some aspects of this event were handeled very well; the coverage of the games, solid crowds, great enviroment. I also feel that there were some very poor aspects to the event including;

1. Inconsistency with game length - when we paid our money we were told 2 16 minute stop clock period. Our first game was 2 13 minute stopped clock games after that were 16 minute running. As I am sure everyone knows there is a major difference between stop clock and runnning clock game length.

2. Horrible Officiating - A "pro" league should not be using house league officials. Half of the refs could not keep up with the play and were often at the blue line when a goal was scored, not to mention the numerous missed calls and incorrect calls made. One ref had a conversation with me while I was outside of the rink ... while a game was going on, when I told him that the game was going on he replied "that is why they have 2 refs". The refs are the same ones who ref the house league games and they are some of the worst I have ever seen plain and simple.

3. Lack of communication between event organizers and teams - There were no posted schedules or restults sheets (like all other tournaments do) and so I had no idea where teams were seeded. Also it was not until 4 or so that those in charge of the event decided to add a semi final game to the event at 7. Thankfully we were still able to get everyone to the game on time. But I found the event to be very unorganized.

Just so everyone knows I did discuss the issues with the officiating with Mr. Raue when he asked for my opinion on an incident which occured during one of my teams games. I do not hold him responsible for it because he had no prior knowledge of the certification level/abilities of some of the refs he was using. He seems like a great guy who is very interested in the sport I really hope he can work out some of the issues I mentioned because I am sure some people (myself not included) would be very interested in this league.

Richard I assume you are flying out to narch? Maybe I will run into you there and we would be able to discuss this further.

[RichardGraham]

Hi DCbullets14

Great post. I know that the event had issues and I intend to mention them in the wrap-up article that I hope to finish tomorrow. I just got home about half an hour ago from Washington, D.C.

I will be flying up to San Jose for NARCh this Thursday, and I look forward to meeting you then. It was really cool to meet so many IHC readers at the Euro Cup!

[Bfoster]

I think if a full check, professional league emerged, it would have to exclude off-sides and icing. I cant remember who said it, (shoulda quoted i know) but ya i imagine that would slow the game down immensly...and slow is boring, slow doesnt sell.

as far as the checking goes the fact is not many players that have lacked experience on the ice can throw a hit worth a hell. but then again, theres a lot of players in piha that played or are playing juniors as well as other sports. (apparantly at the aau junior olympics someone off the chech republic team was being drafted to the nhl?) and the one thing i know is if a full check league is established, the amount of blind pass catches better fall, cause trucks will be comin to drop your A%#

[Bfoster]

oh and as far as roster spots for fighters...

what everyone needs to understand is that fighting is more than getting mad and throwin some fists in hockey. (those of you who have played juniors will know) fighting is used to rally your team, to get your fans going, to give you that last little kick to get the tying goal. sure there are a few hard heads that just go to go but the fact is when a fight happens between two fighters, it's usually strategic. and the real truth is, the fighters will most likely be the most loved by the fans...

[MrCanada]

what is so wrong with PIHA, the yoders have done what looks to be an awesome job in the foundation of a Professional Hockey league

That's too bad! They should have done an awesome job for the fondation of Professional ROLLER Hockey League instead.

Anyhow, I don't consider PIHA professional, why? We don't get paid!
But it is the biggest recreational/adult/Senior league in the world I think!

In 2003, I played MLRH, I was able to negociate a deal with the manager (who took my demands to the owner). They paid for my hotels, food after each games, some drinks (reasonnable amount) and they rented me a car for travel and paid my gaz. (remember I drove every weekend from Canada to New Jersey - 8hrs each way)

The most I ever spent, of my own pocket, for a weekend was about 100$ and it happenned twice, it was out of town games and I had quite the party.

Try to match that PIHA!

I really hope you guys can figure out a way to bring pro-roller back in America, I really miss the full contact aspect of this sport!

[Zubas Stylist]

When are people going to realize that inline hockey is never going to be a huge sport. Its hard enough for the NHL and professional ice hockey to get ratings and sell out crowds and people here think theres going to be this huge successful inline hockey league. It just aint going happen. Its inline hockey people. The people who enjoy this sport are the ones who play. People arent going to watch inline hockey when most of the could care less about hockey in general. Ice hockey is a real sport. Inline hockey is never going to be considered a mainstream sport as much as some people want it to.

[TULaw]

Yes inline hockey probably will never be a huge sport but i think it can be a successful niche sport. Lacrosse isnt a huge sport in the US but in certain markets it has done well professionally. in certain markets pro inline could work too.

[Zubas Stylist]

I don't think you can even compare lacrosse and inline hockey. Lacrosse is a major college sport with an actual "pro" league where guys get paid and are broadcasted on TV. Inline hockey doesn't compare to lacrosse in terms of college popularity or popularity in general, plus I don't even consider inline hockey professional because you don't get paid. The PIHA and whatever the new league is more or less an oversized mens league. That may change in the future, although I highly doubt it

[quick_dry]

The people who enjoy this sport are the ones who play. People arent going to watch inline hockey when most of the could care less about hockey in general. Ice hockey is a real sport. Inline hockey is never going to be considered a mainstream sport as much as some people want it to.
perhaps people should look to understand the big differences between the North American market, and the European market - where they do have 'paid to play' inline hockey leagues upto a couple/few hundred euro a game, and regular TV coverage of the local teams in the top leagues.

[TULaw]

I don't think you can even compare lacrosse and inline hockey. Lacrosse is a major college sport with an actual "pro" league where guys get paid and are broadcasted on TV. Inline hockey doesn't compare to lacrosse in terms of college popularity or popularity in general, plus I don't even consider inline hockey professional because you don't get paid. The PIHA and whatever the new league is more or less an oversized mens league. That may change in the future, although I highly doubt it


You are missing the point of this thread. I agree that there is no "pro" inline league where players get paid and its broadcast on TV. PIHA is not a pro league by any meaning of the word. The point of this discussion is whether a pro league is possible or not. Yes lacrosse is a major college sport but only in a small region of the country. Just as Indoor Lacrosse is part of the larger sport of Lacrosse. I believe we can look at Inline Hockey as being part of the larger sport of Hockey which is very popular in certain areas of North America. If a paid league were formed which played in smaller minor league arenas and focused on proven Hockey markets I believe it would have a chance to work.

[MDE3]

I hate to say it but the bottom line is that in the existing "elite" leagues, the quality of play has not been consistently high enough to generate the necessary oohs and ahhs expected from a professional level of play. So no we cannot compare what we now see in MLRH, PIHA or probably the AIHL..to "professional" hockey of any varitey, nor judge the marketability of he sport based on this level of play.

The closest in terms of marketable skills was indeed the RHI, but it had it's own inherent problems beyond just the level of marketability of the sport.

What bodes well for the sport now, is in part due to the tremendous growth in wheel/skate and chassis technology which in fact does allow the game to be played faster than when the RHI was around. Players can stop and accelerate much better with the new technology, and this can certainly help speed up the game..provided the quality of the athletes is there to begin with to take full advantage of this newer technology.

Nonetheless, all this technology notwithstanding, I still see guys making big circles to change direction, or coasting into the boards to make a check, and guys holding the puck behind the net interminably..that mentality has to change for the game to change....guys have to be able to make directional changes that rival those of ice, to get the game intensity ratcheted up.

Certainly some of the players can play at this higher level, but entire teams must be capable of it..not just a few select top dogs.

A different mentality must be developed by those who play...as for too long the sport has been played at a more deliberate pace than ice hockey, and never really with the same intensity. It's rare to see a very high intensity forecheck, or the rapid closing on the puck carrier that one sees in even medium levels of ice. Is this the result of playing 4 on 4 or, the legacy of years of playing the game at a different pace, knowing you could get away with it because fundamentally it was still just a rec sport where it was cool to demonstrate individual skills, and more people wanted to watch the moves, than prevent them from being made.

For this aggressive change in the sport, full contact must be permitted, so that players will know they are going to be challenged at every turn...and the skills neccessary to effect this, may help ratchet up the overall intensity needed to make the sport more exiciting for the fans.

[PGHhockey]

Awesome post, MDE3.

It's nice to hear a departure from the typical financial/political posts that provoke no thoughts and no change, only more arguing.

[seanth123]

MDE3,

Great post!

Too much time has been spent in regards to the "Pro" in inline hockey. Some people just don't get it I guess, the the arguing takes up the remainder of the posts! "Elite" is the better name for it, and I am happy to hear that the AIHL has thus far, considered the league to be "Elite" players, NOT "Pro". I think this is a step in the right direction for the sport, and says something about the league's agenda of getting the sport on track for the future.

[PGHhockey]

Another point about full-contact...

I'm not sure it's something that could be implemented anytime soon without pulling from the ice hockey pool of players/coaches.

How many pure inline players actually know how to body check, or how to receive a body check? I assume very few, if any. Just watching the NHL games on TV doesn't teach one how to body check. There will be a ton of injuries, some even self-inflicted.

And, at the youth levels, how many inline coaches are qualified to teach body checking? Come to think of it, how many coaches in lower-tier ice programs are really qualified to teach the art?

It would take a whole generation of players to make the transition to making inline hockey a full-contact sport (again, without trying to steal from ice players/coaches).

I would guess even the crossover players (those playing inline and ice) would have to somewhat re-learn how to check with inline skates on a modular plastic surface.

So, if it started now, we'd be teaching our 11 or 12-year-olds how to check and receive. Therefore, you'd be looking at at least 2016 before a full generation of inline players could play full-contact without the risk of major injury from not knowing the skill.

[RichardGraham]

Hey Mike,

Great post. Though there was no checking in the NARCh Pro Division game between the Revision Vanquish and the Mission Syndicate Black two nights ago, there were many of the oohs and ahs that you mention. Players dove to pokecheck, went prone to block shots and break up rushes, and the speed of the players on both teams was absolutely amazing. Everyone talked about it, even the players I interviewed after the game.

So, if there's a way to combine the speed and excitement of the NARCh Pro game with checking, maybe that's the elixir we're looking for.

[MDE3]

I would agree that the better teams of Narch and Tours Pro approach the true levels of skill that are necessary to keep fan excitement high..the percentage of "Pro" qualified players is certainly much higher with these "all star" teams. However even there the lower teir teams would not quite be good enough..at least in the days when I was watching them regularily. However again you will find that the best of the Tours and Narch pro teams are full of competitive ice hockey players (minor league pro, Division A college, and Junior A) as well.

As to the problem of getting players who are qualified to compete "safely" in a Pro Inline check league...see my earlier post..one I have repeated several times over the past 5 years, about having to have a "Pro card" in order to qualify for Pro Inline competiton.

I would envision at least two regionally conducted evaluation clinics..one east and one west...more if the idea seems attractive..where players would be evaluated by professional inline and ice coaches....please do not isolate the ice game so much...they are certainly closely related sports, and there's a lot to learn from the ice side.

These players would be evaluated for skating, contact, and stick handling skills....stopping, starting, turning and speed drills...Only players who can correctly effect the fundamentals, at a pro level speed, would be given their card. The players would be charged to attend these camps.

The camps would inlude more than just evaluations, they would include demonstration and instruction.

Only players with their "Pro Card" would be allowed to participate in true Pro team tryouts....this will help players build a sort of pride in their abilities, as well as generate the confidence that the players you will play with and against have the essential skills and respect necessary to play at a Pro Level. This should also help the credibility of the inline pro game in he eyes of ice hockey players, many who tend to distain the inline game. Credibility from ice players may seem counter productive to many in here, but, you already have a built in fan base with ice hockey fans...so if the inline game gets taken more seriously by ice players..the fan base will also be enhanced.

This should also help with insurance coverage.

[patb16]

All of the attempts at pro inline hockey I have seen do not even compare to the quality of the NARCh Pro game. NARCh Pro does not need checking to make the games exciting because every player playing in the NARCh Pro division is phenomenal. Also, even though there is officially no checking in NARCh Pro, those games get very physical. People who have never seen one of these games are really missing out and probably wouldn't be able to imagine just how good the quality of play is. As a matter of fact, an ever increasing amount of NARCh players are winding up somewhere in the pro ranks of ice hokey.

Also, while Daryn Goodwin and the people who work for NARCh put on a great event, I think its unfortunate that people who don't attend the NARCh Winternationals or Finals do not get to see these games. I personally would love to see NARCh put forth a better effort to showcase the incredible talent in NARCh Pro. Maybe they could try to market the event for live broadcast on television or on the internet.

It is true professional quality hockey that I feel is very enjoyable and exciting without checking, fighting, or any other circus element (ie. ramps behind the net). That's enough ranting for me. Just thought I'd throw my opinion out there.

[MDE3]

All of the attempts at pro inline hockey I have seen do not even compare to the quality of the NARCh Pro game. NARCh Pro does not need checking to make the games exciting because every player playing in the NARCh Pro division is phenomenal. Also, even though there is officially no checking in NARCh Pro, those games get very physical. People who have never seen one of these games are really missing out and probably wouldn't be able to imagine just how good the quality of play is. As a matter of fact, an ever increasing amount of NARCh players are winding up somewhere in the pro ranks of ice hokey.

Also, while Daryn Goodwin and the people who work for NARCh put on a great event, I think its unfortunate that people who don't attend the NARCh Winternationals or Finals do not get to see these games. I personally would love to see NARCh put forth a better effort to showcase the incredible talent in NARCh Pro. Maybe they could try to market the event for live broadcast on television or on the internet.

It is true professional quality hockey that I feel is very enjoyable and exciting without checking, fighting, or any other circus element (ie. ramps behind the net). That's enough ranting for me. Just thought I'd throw my opinion out there.

First of all, the majority of the Narch "Pro" players are also currently elite or pro level ice hockey players, or have been in the past, and as mentioned, while not officially "full contact", many of the games I witnessed years ago, might as well have been. I only mention this to emphasize my point above...the better players learned to play the full contact game, and from there they gained their enhanced skill sets.

[patb16]

I wasn't really trying to debate the check vs. noncheck issue. Just merely trying to put it out there that NARCh Pro should be made more accessible for all to see. However, there is an ever increasing number of players in NARCh Pro that come up playing inline only or predominantly inline.

[BourneRoller]

I think patb16 is right on the money. After I made my post about a festival idea, I realized we already have that to an extent. It's the pro side that needs more emphasis. I live far from the NARCh action unless I go myself and I am always looking for pictures and video of the Pro stuff. I usually find nothing. B2 type stuff online would be the first logical step.
As well, NARCh already has the link with the NHL which could be improved i'm sure to increase the exposure. The NARCh Pro game the other day would surely do some good if put on NHL.com. Probably the strongest horse in the race.
This isn't to say that the AIHL/PIHL isn't a great elite league to farm some of the up and coming inline talent for the future.

[MDE3]

This thread is about what it takes to develop the sport to where it can sustain a full blown pro league.

While I fully understand that Narch Pro represents the current zenith of inline Pro Hockey, I am trying to point out that to move from a tournament pro series, which have players with some marketable skills, who can earn a little pocket change (relatively speaking) at these cultish events, to a full blown paid pro league with a regular schedule and supported by a paying fan base, will require some significant re-tooling of the sport, and a vertically integrated training effort. Not just a little awareness boost from getting a hot game from Narch pro in front of a smallish television audience.

While using that media could raise some interest and maybe even some eyebrows within the cognicienti of the sport of hockey, a much more broad and sustained campaign will be needed to advance a true pro league effort.

[BourneRoller]

I agree that the end goal would be a full blown league, I just mean to say that perhaps NARCh Pro is a underutilized tool in achieving that goal. Brick by brick my friend.

[patb16]

Just a little excerpt from NARCh.com to illustrate my point that there is an increasing number of players in NARCh Pro that come from a predominantly inline hockey background. See below:


The game itself is not the only thing that makes this win special. It’s the underlying story with the Revision Vanquish that truly makes this a special victory, not only for them, but for the sport. You see, almost all of the players on the Revision Vanquish have been playing NARCh since they were 8-10 years old and most have never missed a summer Final. I personally coached two of them in ’99 in Atlanta when they were squirts, Nathan Sigmund and Danny Comrie. Raf Rodriguez was also on this squirt team, but he plays for the Syndicate. These kids, and I’m still going to call them kids, ARE ROLLER HOCKEY. Winning the NARCh Pro Final IS THEIR STANLEY CUP! It is so rewarding for me to hand the cup to players that used to be the kids that looked up to the pro players. They are now the pros that the kids look up to. It says a lot about the dedication of these talented young men, but it also says a lot about what NARCh means to the players who attend.

To see the full article go to:
http://www.narch.com/NARCh_Blogs/roller_hockey_0731082096.html

[MrCanada]

We need sponsors for a pro league.
Here is what I was thinking, have 2 conferences and 4 divisions in each (8 total).

The 2 main sponsors (at least 100K each) would see their name as a conference (ex: the Tour conference or the Mission conference instead of East and West).

The 8 others (50K each) would see their name as devisions (ex: the Reebok devision).

Lets see how much that is so far... that is over 600K ($600,000.00) - That could be money in the bank before any puck drops... With over half a milion in bank, the league would look more professional (credibility).

Can we or can't we have a pro league with those figures?

And of course all the teams will have their own way of getting money (local establishments, local companies, etc...)

What say you?

[William Bourque]

What say you?

I don't think you will be able to get the sponsors on board.

[CoachClipboard]

What say you?

600k in sponsors? 100k and 50k donations?
I say youre living in the Magic Kingdom or stuck in Alice in Wonderland on some nasty mushrooms.

[MrCanada]

I wish!

For some companies, 100K is like 100.00$ for us little people.

And its all tax deductible for them anyway!

[PGHhockey]

So, is it a donation or a sponsorship that you're trying to sell?

If it's a donation, you're then a non-profit organization, and can't consider yourself "pro."

If it's a sponsorship, the tax implications are completely different because then it becomes a marketing/advertising expense for them.

Either way, it's just not gonna work.

You want a true pro league with paid players, professional output, a good event product, paid attendance, and a sustainable business model?

Find someone (1 person) with a lot of discretionary cash and a true, living, breathing passion for inline hockey. Wouldn't hurt if they're a sports marketing guru (or can hire someone who is).

Have them sink a ton of money into marketing, finding the best players in a region, paying all expenses for the first 2 or 3 seasons, and seeing if the business model really is sustainable. (Clue: it's not.)

If it fails, it won't matter because the guy/girl is loaded anyway. They'll walk away or sell it to someone else.

If it succeeds, we can all just shut up about this already. But then again, as with any mass-marketed league, there will be detractors and there will be people who think they can do it better.

[MrCanada]

In this case, lets approach any criminal organisation that wants to launder money.

I know for a fact that in the province of Quebec, the Hells Angels have been sponsoring the LNAH for the past 5-6 years. Every town with a chapter (bunker) have a team and guess what, they have a budget! A big one too! Over $25,000.00 per games to pay the players.

Its easy to spot those companies, usually construction and some bars and restaurants.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Pat,

Great post. Thanks for informing IHC's readers about Daryn Goodwin's excellent look back at the recent NARCh Finals. There's no doubt that inline hockey is creating its own stars.

[ACCCT2]

In this case, lets approach any criminal organisation that wants to launder money.

I know for a fact that in the province of Quebec, the Hells Angels have been sponsoring the LNAH for the past 5-6 years. Every town with a chapter (bunker) have a team and guess what, they have a budget! A big one too! Over $25,000.00 per games to pay the players.

Its easy to spot those companies, usually construction and some bars and restaurants.

Did I just read this one correctly -- "MrCanada" thinks that getting organized crime ("Hells Angels" or "any criminal organization") would somehow be a GOOD way to jump-start the sport:eek:...!?! Gotta' be a VERY sick joke, right? RIGHT? Well, whether it is or it isn't, thank GOD we've toughened up our visa and border patrol protocols, eh -- we can hopefully keep "Canuckleheads" like this nut from entering our juristiction.:D

[growl89]

Just a little excerpt from NARCh.com to illustrate my point that there is an increasing number of players in NARCh Pro that come from a predominantly inline hockey background. See below:



To see the full article go to:
http://www.narch.com/NARCh_Blogs/roller_hockey_0731082096.html

hey pat, while i agree that these guys are all great players. Most of them did/do play ice hockey. And played very competitive ice hockey at that. If you take a look around at the narch pro division. Most of the guys did play at least college ice hockey. I still think that a strictly roller hockey player is hard to find. Most of the elite players do lace up the ice skates. at least from my experiences.

[alex]

hey pat, while i agree that these guys are all great players. Most of them did/do play ice hockey. And played very competitive ice hockey at that. If you take a look around at the narch pro division. Most of the guys did play at least college ice hockey. I still think that a strictly roller hockey player is hard to find. Most of the elite players do lace up the ice skates. at least from my experiences.

I agree that the vast majority play both but I think the difference now is that a lot more of them started in roller and used that experience to cross over into ice and be successful as opposed to the other way around (typical story of a high-level ice player coming over to roller easily and playing at the highest levels).

You also have guys like Itan Chavira, made his name in roller didn't cross over to ice until he was like 17. From what I read in an interview, Greg Thompson has never played ice hockey. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think CJ Yoder has been a roller player his whole life. Jerry Osterkamp may play a little but definitely hasn't played any high level of ice.

I'd say that's 4 of the best in the game there. So, although the majority play both ice and roller there are still many players who fall under the banner of a "predominantly inline hockey background."

[kevinsmithAZ]

I agree that the vast majority play both but I think the difference now is that a lot more of them started in roller and used that experience to cross over into ice and be successful as opposed to the other way around (typical story of a high-level ice player coming over to roller easily and playing at the highest levels).

You also have guys like Itan Chavira, made his name in roller didn't cross over to ice until he was like 17. From what I read in an interview, Greg Thompson has never played ice hockey. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think CJ Yoder has been a roller player his whole life. Jerry Osterkamp may play a little but definitely hasn't played any high level of ice.

I'd say that's 4 of the best in the game there. So, although the majority play both ice and roller there are still many players who fall under the banner of a "predominantly inline hockey background."

I know for a fact Yoder played for the Phoenix Mustangs back in the day in the WCHL, but that was after he was an established roller player.

[DblJ44]

Most of them did/do play ice hockey. And played very competitive ice hockey at that. Most of the elite players do lace up the ice skates. at least from my experiences.

I don't think Pat means they come from a strictly inline background but from a prodominate inline background. Like I know that Pat and I both have played ice, but came to Ice as inline players. CJ and Jami Yoder have both played ice at some kind of semi-pro level but only after playing roller first....

[quick_dry]

I know for a fact that in the province of Quebec, the Hells Angels have been sponsoring the LNAH for the past 5-6 years. Every town with a chapter (bunker) have a team and guess what, they have a budget! A big one too! Over $25,000.00 per games to pay the players.
i'll vouch for that info, one of the guys in my league played it for a while. He was saying that players got bonuses for fights, and the size of the bonus depended on whether your opponent was above of below you in weight category. Innovation in sports? (I think there was also something about individuals with theme songs and such)

I really think you'd struggle VERY hard to find major sponsors at even the minor sponsorship levels you proposed.

I think the USA (and many leagues worldwide) need to look at how team sponsorships are done in Europe, for both their pro-ice and pro/paid-to-play inline teams. The Euro ice teams are almost a walking billboard, covered in patches related to sponsors.

They're two different models though, where teams look after themselves mostly, or the league looks after everything. I think the best thing about teams being self-sufficient is that money woes could put a team out of action for a while, but not the rest of the league.

(We've tried to do some 'different' promos at my team, at one of our games we had some cars from the motorshow out on the ice, with a bit of sideways and tyre spinning action from the BMW Z4 -
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Wulos/AIHL/2008/Dancing%20on%20Ice/RhinosvIce_19Jul_0411a.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Wulos/AIHL/2008/Dancing%20on%20Ice/RhinosvIce_19Jul_0397a.jpg
)