For The Growth Of The Sport Or Just Money

[thepredictor]

I just wanted to inform all of you since I work for my team owner he just went ape **** in his office.

The PIHA as much as they are for the love of the game has in turn sent a message via threatening notice to the owner of our team if he moves his team to the AIHL. I thought PIHA was about growth of the sport yet it now seems to be about money!

Sad but true. If you cared about growth of the sport why would you care if a team switched leagues?

My owner is irate that he has invested time and his money into another persons project and when he felt it was unsuccessful he moved his team to an amateur league. Which technically we all are amateurs who funded his dream.

I guess he is going to have to fold up shop and fold up his junior program so he can avoid legal recourse for doing volunteer work.

I hope PIHA plans on explaining to all of our youth teams they can no longer be involved in our program. I hope they plan on refunding all the money our players spent on uniforms. If our owner has to he will fold up shop which means PIHA not only took what they were saying is help to grow the sport and did the opposite.

Way to shrink the sport PIHA. Way to turn more people against inline hockey as I already hear enough from parents that it is some money hungry people who run the sport and don’t care about kids.

So once again somebody who volunteers their time gets stabbed in the back by the almighty greed hounds. I guess he will address our team in the next 2 weeks and explain to us why we will have to go somewhere else to play.

I for one will say I am done with roller hockey if my team has to fold. I can only thank two men for that and they are sitting in an office spending my hard earned money on something they never put any effort into.

Thank you to the people who put the effort in who made PIHA work: Todd Wiley, Anthony Flynn, Dave Garland, CJ Gamble, Doug Jones, Ruppy Hailey, Jon Roux, Tim Davis, Mark Hausman, Jeff Haze, and Chris Havelock.

You all have my friendship and will always have a place in my hearts.

Of course you Richard Graham. I will stay by the boards and continue reading and giving my opinion. From hear on out I will be hanging up my skates when it comes to top level competitive hockey and continue just to play in my rink league. At least I know if I leave there they won’t threaten to sue me.

[PGHhockey]

Legal recourse? Are you kidding me?

You didn't give much detail (rightfully so), but unless your owner signed an airtight, strong-worded contract stating they would do anything for a certain period of time...legal action is a joke. Would never happen.

Find a lawyer that would take this one...good luck.

[hockeyrules]

The Yoder family and their PIHA is now truly a joke. They Pose as ambassadors for Inline Hockey, now only to show thier true colors when the PIHA money makeing scheme wont work for them anymore. Its truly a great day for the sport, ANOTHER ONE HOLDING BACK THE GROWTH OF INLINE HOCKEY HAS BEEN EXPOSED.

[Center_ice]

I would just assume not playing at all before going back to a league that holds a gun to your head.

[Phelan96]

I just wanted to inform all of you since I work for my team owner he just went ape **** in his office.

The PIHA as much as they are for the love of the game has in turn sent a message via threatening notice to the owner of our team if he moves his team to the AIHL. I thought PIHA was about growth of the sport yet it now seems to be about money!

Sad but true. If you cared about growth of the sport why would you care if a team switched leagues?

My owner is irate that he has invested time and his money into another persons project and when he felt it was unsuccessful he moved his team to an amateur league. Which technically we all are amateurs who funded his dream.

I guess he is going to have to fold up shop and fold up his junior program so he can avoid legal recourse for doing volunteer work.

I hope PIHA plans on explaining to all of our youth teams they can no longer be involved in our program. I hope they plan on refunding all the money our players spent on uniforms. If our owner has to he will fold up shop which means PIHA not only took what they were saying is help to grow the sport and did the opposite.

Way to shrink the sport PIHA. Way to turn more people against inline hockey as I already hear enough from parents that it is some money hungry people who run the sport and don’t care about kids.

So once again somebody who volunteers their time gets stabbed in the back by the almighty greed hounds. I guess he will address our team in the next 2 weeks and explain to us why we will have to go somewhere else to play.

I for one will say I am done with roller hockey if my team has to fold. I can only thank two men for that and they are sitting in an office spending my hard earned money on something they never put any effort into.

Thank you to the people who put the effort in who made PIHA work: Todd Wiley, Anthony Flynn, Dave Garland, CJ Gamble, Doug Jones, Ruppy Hailey, Jon Roux, Tim Davis, Mark Hausman, Jeff Haze, and Chris Havelock.

You all have my friendship and will always have a place in my hearts.

Of course you Richard Graham. I will stay by the boards and continue reading and giving my opinion. From hear on out I will be hanging up my skates when it comes to top level competitive hockey and continue just to play in my rink league. At least I know if I leave there they won’t threaten to sue me.

Who are you???

[thepredictor]

Who are you???

My owner has asked me not to reveal my name since the letter threatens him if this was revealed to anyone.

Yes Jack you do know me and I did play against you in the past 3 years of PIHA

[seanth123]

I find this hard to imagine from a business owner. This type of action can lead to loss of one's business by the courts if unlawful business practice is proven. I would say unless you receive a legal document from proper authorities, this type of action is not warrented. I hope all of the past owners don't get the same type of treatment, because I know a few of them will not take it sitting down. In fact, I believe a few have protected themselves based on past experiences like this. Could get nasty. Stick together players!

[Phelan96]

My owner has asked me not to reveal my name since the letter threatens him if this was revealed to anyone.

Yes Jack you do know me and I did play against you in the past 3 years of PIHA

Alright, I just always see you one here making silly predictions (like the Demolition getting swept by the CT Blaze) but never see your name...;)

[thepredictor]

Alright, I just always see you one here making silly predictions (like the Demolition getting swept by the CT Blaze) but never see your name...;)

No problem dude......I will introduce myself when the time is right!

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

I guess my letter will be coming in the mail soon.

[5280]

My owner has asked me not to reveal my name since the letter threatens him if this was revealed to anyone.



If they only sent out one letter, then by posting this on a public forum, you have already violated that restriction.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

If they only sent out one letter, then by posting this on a public forum, you have already violated that restriction.

In a court of law hearsay doesn't go that far just so you know.

I haven't received this letter yet but I am expecting it.

It is a shame at how things went down with PIHA, but unfortunately when you make your complaints to the league and they fall on deaf ears it is hard to not look for other options. The options the AIHL put on the table for an organization are great. I look forward to the season that the Fury will play.

Just in case anybody cared I sold the Fury organization over a month ago. I have been retained by them as a consultant. The new owner would rather not be named in public and is just a marketing person whose child plays inline hockey.

[5280]

In a court of law hearsay doesn't go that far just so you know.



Not with respect to the content of the discussion, but with respect to the act of having a discussion. If I send you a letter telling you aren't allowed to talk about the letter (a very dubious act to begin with), and an employee of yours posts on a public forum that you received a letter, then there is proof that you have violated the restriction.

It doesn't take much legal wrangling to force a website operator to divulge the IP addy of the poster, which goes a long way toward proving who posted it.

But, I'd be very surprised to see a court enforce a demand that the threat of litigation must not be revealed. And, I'd be very suspicious of any lawyer who threatened it.

[Alvare71]

I am curious to know what legal documents were signed if any, I mean if they can hold you to staying in the league.

Cant you legally ask for an audit?

I don't see how they can hold you to staying in the league and why would you after you have been threaten.

[Center_ice]

I am curious to know what legal documents were signed if any, I mean if they can hold you to staying in the league.

Cant you legally ask for an audit?

I don't see how they can hold you to staying in the league and why would you after you have been threaten.

Exactly. Plus the fact that the teams aren't trying to jump to a competing pro league, they're moving to an amateur/non-profit league. I can't imagine any judge or jury in the world forcing a paying customer to stay with one company when another has a drastically better product.

oh and yes, if PIHA really forced a lawsuit there books would have to opened... what a gong show that would be!

[Wingman]

I am curious to know what legal documents were signed if any, I mean if they can hold you to staying in the league.

Cant you legally ask for an audit?

I don't see how they can hold you to staying in the league and why would you after you have been threaten.

Worst case scenario your team can dissolve and you start a new one.

If they do go to court I would like to bring up the issue of where our insurance money went...

[seanth123]

Kind of odd, but it almost sounds like Microsoft trying to force users to use only their product (ie 6/7) or do without. They lost....

The AIHL is an ELITE league, not PRO. Furthermore, some of the owners have designed and trademarked their product. I don't think PIHA has a stand here. If so, I would think after spending money for court, their reputation put through the ringer, they would probably be run out of the sport. Not to mention the books would have to be disclosed, and the IRS would probably have a field day with all business owned by the PIHA "owner".

Plus, this could sit in courts FOREVER. By the time it is settled, new leagues/teams would be started, and the point would be mute.

The "true hockey enthusists" will rise to the top and makes things happen regardless. This is a FREE country lets not forget. Suck it up PIHA, the deeper you take this, the more like idiots you make yourself look. What teams you do have will not want to be a part of it.

Time to agree you messed up, knock that chip off your shoulder, learn your lesson and hope that the new league allows you to be apart of the league.

[hckypop02]

Well if this is true what a bummer. I would need to see proof of such a letter.
I would not worry about legal action because they will not want to divulge any of the business side of PIHA I'm sure!

[minutemen]

If this is true, I think it is ridiculous, but I would lose a lot of respect for them. BUT LETS MAKE SURE THIS IS TRUE BEFORE WE ALL TRASH PIHA AND THE YODERS

[hckypop02]

Minuteman I agree with you 100 % but have a bad feeling!

[Falcons77]

If the owners read their PIHA agreements(which I am sure you all have), there is a 18 month non-compete clause. Plus I believe that the PIHA owned the rights to the logos and some other things as pertaining to the Pro Teams. Does this apply to the AIHL? If so, couldn't you just change the team names just some small way? Maybe on "paper" have different Owners and Managers?

[minutemen]

Yes your correct the contract is until July 31st. so any team that jumped to PIHA would be at risk. Now do I think they have a case not really. If this is true, PIHA would open the door to themselves as well, so they better have a good lawyer.

I have read the contract all teams are in violation of the contract for talking with the AIHL. It is number 11 the NON COMPETE PROVISION. But PIHA is in violation as well for not providing any business information ask by the owners. Many owners this year have ask for the accounting and it has not been provided. So both parties are in breach. I am sure there are other parts of the contract the both have violated, but they seem to be the main ones. In my opinion, try and listen to the owners and compromise instead of pressing charges. Why will the AIHL be successful, because people are working for the first time in this sport and not sole individuals running the show.

[mephisto7890]

The ship is sinking, what a shame. Is there anyone that will actually try to defend piha anymore, Im surprised 33 hasnt tryed to defend them again.

[thepredictor]

[QUOTE=5280;51660]Not with respect to the content of the discussion, but with respect to the act of having a discussion. If I send you a letter telling you aren't allowed to talk about the letter (a very dubious act to begin with), and an employee of yours posts on a public forum that you received a letter, then there is proof that you have violated the restriction.QUOTE]

I heard him yelling on the phone with his wife about it.

I am also sure that since we are a non profit organization. This is open to anybody to see within our organization.

Since we have no guidlines that require membership to our organization. I had the president snap his fingers and he said anybody who reads IHC can be a member.

Does that make you happy that I made sure what I did is legal in your mind!

[mephisto7890]

The piha bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, the piha bridge is falling down, thank god. Im really enjoying this.

[DCbullets14]

lol the only question now is how many cars will still be on the bridge when it falls into the water.

[33]

first of all, to get on here and call someone out without signing your post...mature! secondly, i still believe in the league that grew from 6 original "pro" teams to over 40 in 6 years. if given some time to fix any problems (and there were problems) i truly believe that these problems would have been addressed. instead, the egos that started the aihl chose to skip town in the middle of the night instead of allowing time for the problems to be fixed. i will always stand by PIHA because it has given many of us the avenue to play extremely competitive hockey against some good teams in front of, in my case because i was involved with great organizations, a good amount of fans. good luck in the league that is run by the owners. i can just imagine the length of those meetings.
with that all being said, i do not agree with everything that piha has done (including this lawsuit threat, if true) and i know there were problems but i'm sure they would have been fixed.

STEVE YINGLING

bronson, whoever you are, that was for you!

[minutemen]

Steve, yes you should not have been called out like that. Many others have stuck up for PIHA and you were called out. I agree with everything you said. Yes PIHA grew in six years, but the work of individuals that had nothing to do with the front office. From what I know, owners met with the front office and tried to fix things on a number of occasions over the last year and the front office did not want to compromise. I wish they could have come to some agreement but they didn't and the AIHL was formed.

[33]

so those owners just didn't get what they wanted? is that what your telling me? i know for a fact the owner of my team didn't get what he wanted on several occasions, do you see him running off kicking and screaming and starting his own league. dude, enjoy it. have fun with your new adventure and good luck.

[hockeyfan1981]

so those owners just didn't get what they wanted? is that what your telling me? i know for a fact the owner of my team didn't get what he wanted on several occasions, do you see him running off kicking and screaming and starting his own league. dude, enjoy it. have fun with your new adventure and good luck.

Steve,
Have any of the owners that you refer to came on here to bash you? Starting a new league is not about bashing people, its about improving a sport. Its not about dividing the tallent, its about being able to make decisions that will help the entire league. When a problem arises, you need to deal with it and people need to be willing to make compromises. Unfortunately, PIHA has been crumbling for the last year and a half. And those same people that you say skipped town in the middle of the night were the same people that held the league together in the beginning of this season when entire divisions wanted to leave. If issues were dealt with when they came up, I can guarantee that those same people would still be trying to hold the league together. Its not about egos, if it was they would be doing what you are doing on here. If it was about egos they would plaster their names all over the place, but their not because its not about that, its about the sport and improving it.

[hockeyfan1981]

Sorry I forgot to sign my post...my name is Nicol (yes i am a girl) which now probably give you another reason to bash me.

[minutemen]

Steve,

No one is kicking and screaming. Your the one from day one that has criticized people that went to the AIHL. It is not that owners did not get what they want, it is way beyond that and you know it. The people in the AIHL will enjoy there time and just leave it at that.

[GR8SK8r06]

Steve,

No one is kicking and screaming. Your the one from day one that has criticized people that went to the AIHL. It is not that owners did not get what they want, it is way beyond that and you know it. The people in the AIHL will enjoy there time and just leave it at that.

Nobody is kicking and screaming?? Who are you kidding? What site are you on buddy? Thats all I have seen the last few months on this site. Lay off of Steve and quit calling him out on everything regarding PIHA. Obviously you people have an serious itch with PIHA but scratching and scratching it more is just going to make it worse. Of coarse they have made decisions many dont agree with! Just forget about it. You guys have your new league that is the savior of all roller hockey:confused:! Nobody else knows what they are talking about except you people....... Right??? Thanks for saving roller hockey!;) GIVE ME A BREAK!!

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

nobody Is Kicking And Screaming?? Who Are You Kidding? What Site Are You On Buddy? Thats All I Have Seen The Last Few Months On This Site. Lay Off Of Steve And Quit Calling Him Out On Everything Regarding Piha. Obviously You People Have An Serious Itch With Piha But Scratching And Scratching It More Is Just Going To Make It Worse. Of Coarse They Have Made Decisions Many Dont Agree With! Just Forget About It. You Guys Have Your New League That Is The Savior Of All Roller Hockey:confused:! Nobody Else Knows What They Are Talking About Except You People....... Right??? Thanks For Saving Roller Hockey!;) Give Me A Break!!

You Love Piha We Know

I also hear this everytime you post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErUrPXt31vo

[dingleberries]

Nobody is kicking and screaming?? Who are you kidding? What site are you on buddy? Thats all I have seen the last few months on this site. Lay off of Steve and quit calling him out on everything regarding PIHA. Obviously you people have an serious itch with PIHA but scratching and scratching it more is just going to make it worse. Of coarse they have made decisions many dont agree with! Just forget about it. You guys have your new league that is the savior of all roller hockey:confused:! Nobody else knows what they are talking about except you people....... Right??? Thanks for saving roller hockey!;) GIVE ME A BREAK!!

PIHA support out of Colorado. I am shocked


You Love Piha We Know

I also hear this everytime you post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErUrPXt31vo

Jeff that was hilarious.

[Alvare71]

You know what they say about karma, I remember when I brought up the Idea of a private forum for PIHA players.

Then I get attacked by the players when I brought up concerns of a league that grows to fast.

And what kinda player am I

Then they kick me off the forum list because they didnt like what I was saying.......



Funny how things work in life.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

You know what they say about karma, I remember when I brought up the Idea of a private forum for PIHA players.

Then I get attacked by the players when I brought up concerns of a league that grows to fast.

And what kinda player am I

Then they kick me off the forum list because they didnt like what I was saying.......



Funny how things work in life.

Stamped me confused. EXPLAIN please

[Alvare71]

Stamped me confused. EXPLAIN please

That will tell you the whole story

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

That will tell you the whole story

I remember.......Do you still want to tryout for my waterboy spot?

Sorry to easy to bring that up

[scotty b]

PIHA support out of Colorado. I am shocked



Jeff that was hilarious.

The reason why people in Colorado seem to support it is because the league ran flawless, we had a competitive season all year long, and everything happened just the way it was suppose to. I truly am shocked at the movement. Clearly something went on back east that we didnt see any off. And now we are sitting here watching a league that we fell in love with disinigrate right before our eyes. And it does really seem like its a vendeta against the owners. It is what it is, and we will deal with that. I just hope we have a league to play in.

Scotty Bagwin
Westminster Blizzard

[Alvare71]

I remember.......Do you still want to tryout for my waterboy spot?

Sorry to easy to bring that up

Does it have benefits and a parking spot.........lol

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

Does it have benefits and a parking spot.........lol

Benefits: You get to clean up the locker room and wash all the guys jock straps.

Parking: Your spot will be located at the local k-mart which is a 5 block walk

[Alvare71]

Benefits: You get to clean up the locker room and wash all the guys jock straps.

Parking: Your spot will be located at the local k-mart which is a 5 block walk

Now sense I deleted my post......let me ask you a question....you can dish it out but cant take it right?

[Alvare71]

good, I just wanted to make sure..................

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

Now sense I deleted my post......let me ask you a question....you can dish it out but cant take it right?

I can take but obviously my humor is going over your head in some regards. I am through with responding to you as you are going to cause a thread on here to be removed that has shed some light on another poor situation.

Sorry Richard!

[Alvare71]

I can take but obviously my humor is going over your head in some regards. I am through with responding to you as you are going to cause a thread on here to be removed that has shed some light on another poor situation.

Sorry Richard!

Ok......Dude.......have you read this whole thread it has been nothing but bashing......are you kidding me....

[thepredictor]

Actually this whole thread was started and relates to greed!

[GROWL]

The reason why people in Colorado seem to support it is because the league ran flawless, we had a competitive season all year long, and everything happened just the way it was suppose to. I truly am shocked at the movement. Clearly something went on back east that we didnt see any off. And now we are sitting here watching a league that we fell in love with disinigrate right before our eyes. And it does really seem like its a vendeta against the owners. It is what it is, and we will deal with that. I just hope we have a league to play in.

Scotty Bagwin
Westminster Blizzard

Scott,

It is not just out east. It is everywhere except Colorado. Look at the list of upset people (CA, AZ, TX, those arn't out east), every other region has made their frustration known. And for the record no one out here has a problem with how flawlessly the season went out here or anywhere else. It was a great season as far as competetion is concerned.

Maybe since your coordinator out their is an owner in the league it appears the league is working for you. However out here and everywhere else, we did all of the work ourselves. The division coordinators handled all of the calls all season when people were upset and had no answers to give to the upset teams. We regularly all spoke to each other, but never any coorespondance from Colorado.

Let me ask you this? What did you think about having to order brand new uniforms this year? Maybe you liked it maybe not, but out here we found it outrageous. Why would we have to order $4000 worth of stuff when we just did it last year or the year before? If there was a good reason it certainly wasn't communicated. When asked they had no legitamate reason and it was assumed to help a personal relationship. Was it frustrating to the rest of the PIHA league that Colorado still went ahead with this deal...YES. Did the teams out there even know that they had a choice as to what they could use? How about insurance? Did anyone out in Colorado get upset that 3 days before the league started, we were told we were using a brand new, third party insurance program. A program that was designed to generate even more money for the league, that was earmarked for a venture that had nothing to do with the operation of PIHA. How about all of the people that bought AAU insurance already because no one told them there was a change and it wasnt expected that three days before the start of the league a whopper like that was gonna come down.

So how did everyone else respond. They chose voice their displeasure to a league that would not call them back. The division coordiators around the country delt with upset phone calls all season and we did the best we could to express this to the league and ask for disclosure and a voice in the decision making. The league made it perfectly clear that they were not giving in to the desires of the team owners, nor giving an accounting of the league budget.

To those that want to continue to defend the league. Step up and defend the issues. Dont say that they took the league from 6 teams to 42, because many of us have been just a big a part of it as they have. What about the work that the rest of us have done? Should we keep working our ass off and get no respect from the league. Only get phone calls when its time to pay our money. As for you guys in Colorado, open your eyes and take a look at what your actually paying $4,500 for and what you are getting back for it.

Here is the biggest question I would be asking if I were a team planning to stay in PIHA. Why has the league not tried to fix this? The teams that dont plan to play next year all feel like they did what they could for 9 months to fix things. They have sold you out. When you dont have anyone to play except the 5 teams in your division, it is because the league made no attempt to reconcile with the teams who were upset. They have tried to save who they thought they could and have threatened legal action against the rest. AND WHY, because they have no intentions of giving the players, teams, or anyone doing any work any rights.

[ACCCT2]

Actually, with even a marginally competent lawyer, all those owners, teams and players being threatened with supposed impending legal action ("the force" play?) by an obviously pathetic, as well as ethically and morally bankrupt PIHA should be able to quite easily quash and quite frankly, overwhelm via countersuits, any lawsuit brought against them. Lawsuits involve this very neat and interesting little thing called "discovery", where ALL the facts and evidence relating to said lawsuit are subject to subpoena and forensic review. Hmmm, how long does anyone really think the "Yoda's" infamous financial "pie-chart" will hold up under this kind of legal scrutiny? Who did they think they were fooling with that one? Even the most basic of business principles demanded that the "Yodas" supply what should have been a properly detailed and clearly evidenced end-of-season line-by-line balance sheet to each and every PIHA owner, whether they were at the PIHA meeting or not. Believe me, "Yoda" takes any of you to Court, he's gonna' have to think about how he'll respond and account for the financial discrepancies ("shinny-annigans"?) that you will certainly have every right to have legally addressed in any defense/response/countersuit (that should be rife with demands for copies and documentation of ALL actual revenues, receipts, payouts, payees, expenses & transactions). Why do I have this distinctly overwhelming feeling that said legal forensic accounting and evidencing won't come anywhere near what ALL the owners and players ("ex" or otherwise) paid into the "Yoda's" PIHA coffers?

Trust me, ex-PIHA puck-pushing-pawns -- you have absolutely nothing to worry about should the "Yoda" actually try to use "the force" play on any of you. If I were an ex-PIHA owner or player, one of my first agendas might be to form an "ex-PIHA" legal committee and collect anywhere from $100 - $300 per ex-PIHA team owner potentially at risk to the "Yoda's" legal nonsense and retain a GOOD lawyer to head this off at the legal pass, so to speak. As that mythical movie master of arena combat, Maximus, so confidently and concisely said in "Gladiator": "Strength and Honor" (and "strength in numbers"!).

Just my 2 cents worth...

Also -- don't know you, Flynn, but I admire your clearly selfless and unselfish (and quite frankly, underappreciated) efforts both PIHA-era and now (hopefully) AIHL-era-to-be. The sport could really use a LOT MORE passionate and principled and put-it-into-production puck-people like you.

[scotty b]

Scott,

It is not just out east. It is everywhere except Colorado. Look at the list of upset people (CA, AZ, TX, those arn't out east), every other region has made their frustration known. And for the record no one out here has a problem with how flawlessly the season went out here or anywhere else. It was a great season as far as competetion is concerned.

Maybe since your coordinator out their is an owner in the league it appears the league is working for you. However out here and everywhere else, we did all of the work ourselves. The division coordinators handled all of the calls all season when people were upset and had no answers to give to the upset teams. We regularly all spoke to each other, but never any coorespondance from Colorado.

Let me ask you this? What did you think about having to order brand new uniforms this year? Maybe you liked it maybe not, but out here we found it outrageous. Why would we have to order $4000 worth of stuff when we just did it last year or the year before? If there was a good reason it certainly wasn't communicated. When asked they had no legitamate reason and it was assumed to help a personal relationship. Was it frustrating to the rest of the PIHA league that Colorado still went ahead with this deal...YES. Did the teams out there even know that they had a choice as to what they could use? How about insurance? Did anyone out in Colorado get upset that 3 days before the league started, we were told we were using a brand new, third party insurance program. A program that was designed to generate even more money for the league, that was earmarked for a venture that had nothing to do with the operation of PIHA. How about all of the people that bought AAU insurance already because no one told them there was a change and it wasnt expected that three days before the start of the league a whopper like that was gonna come down.

So how did everyone else respond. They chose voice their displeasure to a league that would not call them back. The division coordiators around the country delt with upset phone calls all season and we did the best we could to express this to the league and ask for disclosure and a voice in the decision making. The league made it perfectly clear that they were not giving in to the desires of the team owners, nor giving an accounting of the league budget.

To those that want to continue to defend the league. Step up and defend the issues. Dont say that they took the league from 6 teams to 42, because many of us have been just a big a part of it as they have. What about the work that the rest of us have done? Should we keep working our ass off and get no respect from the league. Only get phone calls when its time to pay our money. As for you guys in Colorado, open your eyes and take a look at what your actually paying $4,500 for and what you are getting back for it.

Here is the biggest question I would be asking if I were a team planning to stay in PIHA. Why has the league not tried to fix this? The teams that dont plan to play next year all feel like they did what they could for 9 months to fix things. They have sold you out. When you dont have anyone to play except the 5 teams in your division, it is because the league made no attempt to reconcile with the teams who were upset. They have tried to save who they thought they could and have threatened legal action against the rest. AND WHY, because they have no intentions of giving the players, teams, or anyone doing any work any rights.

Flynn, I appreciate the time you spent in replying to my post. I think as a player I see it from a different perspective. I also believe I play for the best owner out west, and all the work you did, he did as well. I understand that none of this happens without him. CJ didnt do anything for us, except play us as far as I can tell. Our owner did it ALL. When they said we had to buy new uniforms, he brought it to us and we voted and choose to stay with what we had, so that didnt seem to be so bad. As for the ins. sure, that was a bit of a bummer, but to me what was it. $25 or something like that. Did I like it, not really but I already pay to play so pile it on. I believed that we were paying the money so that the teams could travel at the end of the season and then the winners get a part of that. I assume they have to be making money, sure. I understand where you are coming from as an owner. You say you don't have a voice, and if I were an owner I would be upset as well. Should you be getting more respect from the league? Probabley, but I bet you DID get a ton from your players. And after all, why did you do it. For the sport and the guys that play. Was I defending Piha, in a way I guess I was. But what I was really trying to get accross is that this league has been here for 3 years, and for a glorified lets pretend to call it pro, I sure have alot of fun! For some reason I think people think because CJ is in Colorado that we are all Piha chuggers, but really what we fell in love with was the chance to be a part of something bigger. We didnt hear any of the complaints because of our owner who went above and beyond what I think most owners do. So I have no illusions of who to thank, but like I said I was suprised to see how quickly the hammer was dropped. I know because of the state we are in, and who is here, where we will be playing. Although I wonder, did you contact any of the Colorado owners, or did you just assume that becuase of the state we are in you wouldnt bother. Now I don't know as I didnt talk to our owner about it at all however when people start saying things like what a suprise, a Colorado supporter of Piha. its not because CJ is a great guy, but because our owner did everything you did and made it work for the guys he cares about. And so did the other 4 teams in this division. And thats why our experience was so good. I just hope that you guys are doing what you are doing for the right reasons. What changes can you make during the season anyway. Maybe they were waiting for the end to relook at what didnt work. Or maybe that's what I want to believe. Of course I won't really fully understand it from your perspective, but I think you can from ours. I just hope we get to play! Good luck

Scotty B

[PGHhockey]

Wow...cooler heads are prevailing on an IHC thread about PIHA? Mark it on your calendars, boys...(and girls, since I see we have a posting girl now - gotta be PC)


I have a question for everyone.

How would all of you feel if PIHA would have given all team owners a detailed, audited set of financial statements...and it was clearly shown and openly stated that ownership took a 15% net profit on the league?

I bring this up because I ran a tournament this past weekend...one that I certainly wouldn't deem as a success, but there were no major incidents, no major complaints, and we had a competitive final - so I guess maybe a "semi-success" would be a good word.

I was only able to pull in 5 teams. I ended up losing about $550. I was determined to make it happen. When I had verbally committed teams drop out at the last minute, I offered them discounts to get them in. When I had a bunch of individuals no-show their first game, I got in touch with everyone I know and offered a very low cost to get them up to the tournament to fill in.

I did it all just to make it work. $550 is not exactly chump change, but I did it just to give the guys that showed up their money's worth.

Then, out of nowhere, I find out that a few of the guys that no-showed did so because "Bill is making a lot of money off of my entry fee."

No kidding. (Well, I should have, but actually, I paid for everyone to play.)

So that brings me to my main point. Is there really a black cloud hanging over people who make money from roller hockey? Are we really the bad guy? Should every organization, rink, and tournament director just become a 501(c)3? How about the manufacturers?

Sorry, had to rant. That really, really, really made me angry.

[33]

first of all, justin and nicol, i would love to know who i have criticized or bashed or called out. all i have ever done was expressed that i did not agrere with how this was done and supported a league that i believe has given us an opportunity to play some pretty good hockey. i never once named names or called anyone out publicly on this board. with that being said, i'm absolutely done with this mess. you enjoy the aihl and good luck.

[GROWL]

Flynn, I appreciate the time you spent in replying to my post. I think as a player I see it from a different perspective. I also believe I play for the best owner out west, and all the work you did, he did as well. I understand that none of this happens without him. CJ didnt do anything for us, except play us as far as I can tell. Our owner did it ALL. When they said we had to buy new uniforms, he brought it to us and we voted and choose to stay with what we had, so that didnt seem to be so bad. As for the ins. sure, that was a bit of a bummer, but to me what was it. $25 or something like that. Did I like it, not really but I already pay to play so pile it on. I believed that we were paying the money so that the teams could travel at the end of the season and then the winners get a part of that. I assume they have to be making money, sure. I understand where you are coming from as an owner. You say you don't have a voice, and if I were an owner I would be upset as well. Should you be getting more respect from the league? Probabley, but I bet you DID get a ton from your players. And after all, why did you do it. For the sport and the guys that play. Was I defending Piha, in a way I guess I was. But what I was really trying to get accross is that this league has been here for 3 years, and for a glorified lets pretend to call it pro, I sure have alot of fun! For some reason I think people think because CJ is in Colorado that we are all Piha chuggers, but really what we fell in love with was the chance to be a part of something bigger. We didnt hear any of the complaints because of our owner who went above and beyond what I think most owners do. So I have no illusions of who to thank, but like I said I was suprised to see how quickly the hammer was dropped. I know because of the state we are in, and who is here, where we will be playing. Although I wonder, did you contact any of the Colorado owners, or did you just assume that becuase of the state we are in you wouldnt bother. Now I don't know as I didnt talk to our owner about it at all however when people start saying things like what a suprise, a Colorado supporter of Piha. its not because CJ is a great guy, but because our owner did everything you did and made it work for the guys he cares about. And so did the other 4 teams in this division. And thats why our experience was so good. I just hope that you guys are doing what you are doing for the right reasons. What changes can you make during the season anyway. Maybe they were waiting for the end to relook at what didnt work. Or maybe that's what I want to believe. Of course I won't really fully understand it from your perspective, but I think you can from ours. I just hope we get to play! Good luck

Scotty B

No one should expect an owner to operate a business and not make some sort of profit. I have run a ton of tournaments in my day and they were all to generate a profit. Of course I turned around and used that profit to help support our program, but whatever that should be unimportant.

Now Scott here is where I will disagree with you and point out the flaws I see in your arguement. First of all your owner did not do all the work I did. The work I do as a team owner is irrelevant to this entire situation. Do I go above and beyond in the preparation for games, the promoting of my team? I think I do, but every team should do that. I have done it for years and would continue to do it. I take your word completely that your owner did a great job in the running of your team as well. You can not confuse the work we do for our teams with the work some of us do for the league. On top of being on of the most dedicated owners to my team, I was a division coordinator, the web site coordinator, and the longest tenured owner in the league. All of which come with a ton of responsibilities. Maybe you think "pile it on" is an expectable solution personally. Stop for a second and look at the big picture. Is that fair to everyone in the league? How many players are we going to lose at $300 a player, how about $400, $500 a player. Some teams out east pay as much as $750 a person to play. As an owner, we have to answer to the people who are paying our bills, so why shouldn't the league answer to us. The decisions the league made this past season have put into question their ability to act according to the best wishes of the league. Is it to much to ask to include the owners in the decision making of a league that we 100% finance. This is a business and should be treated as one. We have a so called financial officer, so why can't an accounting be given? Last December, the league gave Ruppy Hailey and I a verbal reading of the league's proposed budget (which according to them didn't exist on paper, which is a very scary situation in it self). I can tell you that it looked absolutely nothing like that pie chart we saw at the end of the year.

We have a right to know what we are paying $4,500 for. Does anyone here go to the mall, walk into a store, go straight to the register and give them $200 and say "just get me some stuff that you think is worth $200"? Hell no, you want to know what you are getting and guess what, you’re gonna have a decision in the process arn't you. Sure they are gonna make a profit on the transaction; no one is expecting PIHA not to take a reasonable profit either.

Do I get respect from my players, of course I do, because I work my ass off for them. But I also work my ass off for the league. What have I gotten in return for that? The exact opposite of respect. I have been left out to dry. I spend all season taking phone calls that the league ignored and tried to get solutions to teams problems. There are no solutions, because it is their way or the highway. At some point everyone must realize that. How am I repaid for 7 years worth of hard work? Not with a phone call to figure out what went so terribly wrong, no with a letter threatening legal action. PIHA forgot rule one of business, make your customers happy.


if you would like my personal opinion on why this all happened you can pm me and i will let you know what i think.


hahahaha! you kill me. i really appreciate you signing your name to your posts. coward! stop hiding...come out and play.

Steve,

Who have you criticized, maybe we'd all like to know. In one breathe you want to call people cowards, but then you want people to PM you for your opinion. What is so secret that has to be private about it? Sounds to me like your afraid to let your opinions come out and play or worse your looking to take pod shots at people without the possiblity of public scrutiny in return. I would love to hear your take on what went wrong. Better yet, I'd love to see you really defend the league. Step up and answer the questions they have refused to. All of the questions that have been asked all season long. As far as this, left in the middle of the night crap, that is so BS. How long are we supposed to wait for the league to listen to us? We spent an entire season trying to get results. Maybe we should have paid next years entry fee and then hoped for some results. If you really love PIHA so much, why don't you go back and find out for the rest of us why the league has made no effort what so ever to reconcile with EVERYONE.

[ARHA]

No one should expect an owner to operate a business and not make some sort of profit.

See, Scotty made an excellent point. The Rocky Mountain Division runs great, at least the Westminster Blizzard (the team Scotty plays for), for one huge reason: the owner doesn't care about the money. He cares about his players, his staff and his fans. The second part of that is, while he is running the team, he puts everything he can back into it. He realizes that he is running a "pro" sports team, and conducts himself in a professional manner at all times. The Rocky Mountain Division is a great division, and will do great no matter what league it participates in.

[33]

i believe you know how i feel about you. i'll stand up for whatever i believe in and you're not going to tell me i can't. as far as me calling someone a coward, you bet. every post center ice makes is derogatory and he calls people out and does nothing good for the sport...all without letting people know who he is. say what you will about me, i really don't care one bit what you think. like i said before enjoy your league and leave all else alone. good luck to you. peace out!

[Center_ice]

33 sorry dude that I had to expose your boys for what they really are but my post have been nothing but the truth like it or not.

Only posted what I have been told by others that are closely related to the situation and I trust that information to be legit.

[thepredictor]

i believe you know how i feel about you. i'll stand up for whatever i believe in and you're not going to tell me i can't. as far as me calling someone a coward, you bet. every post center ice makes is derogatory and he calls people out and does nothing good for the sport...all without letting people know who he is. say what you will about me, i really don't care one bit what you think. like i said before enjoy your league and leave all else alone. good luck to you. peace out!

In the words of Jack Nicholson -- "You Can't Handle The Truth!"

[CUDangled]

I am not speaking for PIHA...just any hockey related business in general. The owner may be in it for the love of the game, but at the end of the day, the bills have to be paid. How much money do you think PIHA has invested in their current league? How much money do you think they have/had already spent for marketing for the upcoming season...only to have it on the brink of collapse due to the new league? They may also be tied to contracts with vendors, etc.

Again...not defending PIHA...but people need to remember that a business is just that, a business. By definition you need to make money. Maybe not get rich and retire early...but at least make money.

I understand that people were angry with PIHA and looking to step away anyway...and my post is not trying address those issues. But everytime a hockey related business tries to make a business move, we get posts on here about "isn't it supposed to be about the sport and not money". Well yes...but if that were truly the case, why don't you go to your local rink and complain that the owner wants to charge you for floor time. After all, if he was "in it for the growth of the sport" and not "money" he should let you use the rink for free.

I know I am going to get flammed for this...and I really don't care. I want to see this sport grow probably more than most of you (if you can believe that). This game (ice and roller) have given so much to me throughout my life I cannot even begin to explain...and I want my son to get the same things in his life, so I give back to the sport whenever I can.

[RichardGraham]

Hi CUDangled,

I'm with you. People who work hard in this sport to give opportunities to players and fans should definitely be able to make some money for what they do. Though I haven't made a lot of money on Inline Hockey Central (that's an understatement, believe me), I have not given up hope!

In fact, I hope to be like Bob Seger was once described: a 10-year-overnight-success. :)

[33]

I am not speaking for PIHA...just any hockey related business in general. The owner may be in it for the love of the game, but at the end of the day, the bills have to be paid. How much money do you think PIHA has invested in their current league? How much money do you think they have/had already spent for marketing for the upcoming season...only to have it on the brink of collapse due to the new league? They may also be tied to contracts with vendors, etc.

Again...not defending PIHA...but people need to remember that a business is just that, a business. By definition you need to make money. Maybe not get rich and retire early...but at least make money.

I understand that people were angry with PIHA and looking to step away anyway...and my post is not trying address those issues. But everytime a hockey related business tries to make a business move, we get posts on here about "isn't it supposed to be about the sport and not money". Well yes...but if that were truly the case, why don't you go to your local rink and complain that the owner wants to charge you for floor time. After all, if he was "in it for the growth of the sport" and not "money" he should let you use the rink for free.

I know I am going to get flammed for this...and I really don't care. I want to see this sport grow probably more than most of you (if you can believe that). This game (ice and roller) have given so much to me throughout my life I cannot even begin to explain...and I want my son to get the same things in his life, so I give back to the sport whenever I can.

by far one of the most true and insightful posts i've seen on here in a long time. i too, one day, would love for my kids to get out of this sport what i have (not the headache i currently have, but you know what i mean) and i would love to give back but i don't see any good happening right now...in ANY league. only time will tell. i guess it's good they just turned 7.

[Center_ice]

CUDangled, Read Flynn's post, he sums it all up. No one cared about the league making money. If your not taking care of your customers then they will go somewhere else. They have no one to blame but themselves and to now threaten to sue the owners, you have got to be kidding me that right there tells you that it is all about the money. Yea, PIHA really has a lot of respect for it's owners so much that they are willing to take them to court.

Sorry 33, I will make you happy, this is my last post on this site. Go on living in lala land buddy.

[GR8SK8r06]

CUDangled, Read Flynn's post, he sums it all up. No one cared about the league making money. If your not taking care of your customers then they will go somewhere else. They have no one to blame but themselves and to now threaten to sue the owners, you have got to be kidding me that right there tells you that it is all about the money. Yea, PIHA really has a lot of respect for it's owners so much that they are willing to take them to court.

Sorry 33, I will make you happy, this is my last post on this site. Go on living in lala land buddy.

Center ice!! It makes my smile to hear you are leaving! But for once You are right! Nobody cared about the league making money! They just cared if they made money! Look nobody put a gun to Flynn or any other owners head and said "Run the Growl or die!" He did it on his own account knowing damn well that he wouldnt get any money as all the owners in the league did! The owners of the league lost money every year until this last one! So dont tell me about not making any money Flynn. We have a great division out here in Colorado and its because the owners of the teams worked together to solve problems! You dont see any of them coming on here with every tiny problem that they have complaining and bashing the league. We (the players) just want to play some good hockey and THATS IT! It is only going to get better with Jami Yoder joining one of the RMD teams and getting involved with the league with his energy and organization. It never hurts to have one of the greatest roller defensemen of all time helping in league operations. I have to say with PIHA having without a doubt the 4 best players in CJ, Brian, Ciolli, and Jami in their league still makes PIHA the best league! Talent wise with the RMD and GAteway together there wont be ONE bad team.

Lets think about it! PIHA has learned some hard lessons, the teams have been narrowed down to 12 GOOD teams instead of 42 mostly bad and some good, the divisions are reasonably close to have multiple out of conference games over the length of a weekend or two, and they have almost all of the best players that play in "pro" leagues around the country. If im a player I know which league I would want to play in! A glorified rec "elite" league with a couple of decent players or a newly reformed pro league with the best players? Tough choice!

P.S. I Im joining Steve in Lala land i guess! I hope there is some room cause Steve's a big guy!

[ACCCT2]

Actually, all semantics aside and with all due respect to all of the the hard work, passion, dedication and devotion of the owners and players, wasn't PIHA really just a "glorified 'rec' league with a couple of decent players" -- just as the Colorado "league" will also be...!?! Let's face it, there was absolutely nothing "professional" about PIHA except the very efficient way in which everyone's hard-earned cash was pocketed and ("semi-professionally"?) "pie-charted" by the "Yodas" and "Yoda-cronies".

Running a business it is absolutely expected that those who run it will (hopefully, if run honestly, honorably and well) make money. But when you run a business and make bold claims and promises about what services, goods or program (or season?) someone will be getting from you in return for literally buying-into (in a financially transacted way) your product (or league?), you had BETTER deliver, as anything promised and NOT delivered can (with even a marginally competent lawyer) be construed as commercial fraud and even criminal conduct (check the numerous Federal fraud statutes that come into play when interstate financial transactions result in one party being cheated or defrauded). I'm sure a lot of you ex-PIHA owners and players who sent payments across state lines would probably be able to put together a pretty credible legal case in this regard.

And just who exactly annoints "the best" of anything in this sport? What qualifies people who've obviously only seen "the best" of their own small world to unequivically state that this must surely be "the best" of the even BIGGER unseen and unexperienced world beyond? While certain players mentioned might indeed be GOOD players, I've definitely seen better at least a dozen times over and then some. Unless you've actually seen the European "Elite" league players (off-season paid-to-play "pro" ice hockey players) from especially the summer leagues in Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany, Italy and Sweden (many of whom are even NHL draft picks), I wouldn't go proclaiming anyone so far mentioned (in this thread anyway) as anything anywhere near the "best" of anything except their apparently well-run (almost-elite?) local "rec" league in Colorado. At best, from what I HAVE seen internationally, "big fish in a small Colorado pond" is all I'd give 'em (and that's "at best").

[thepredictor]

RMD is such a great division they didnt even make it through the conference finals. Last time I checked Phoenix won over Conneticutt. Aren't those 2 teams who went AIHL. Oh yeah thats right the good teams left for the AIHL. Have fun playing in the Professional Inline Harrsiburg Association. Maybe we should call it PYHA. The Professional Yoder Hockey Association.

[ParkwayArena]

On second thought, I don't have anything nice to say so I'm gonna stay out of this....I have better things to do with my time that'll actually help the sport rather than talk politics about leagues that are hundreds of miles from me now. Good luck everyone.

[Center_ice]

I'm back!! My retirement was about as long as a few of the guys ice hockey careers that CUDangled mention.

predictor, Bill Mahr says that you have Philadelphia at one and Pittsburg at the other end and in the middle of the state you have Alabama. Wouldn't that include Harrisburg? If it does then there is your answer for all the problems.

[DCbullets14]

We all have heard the reasons why people are leaving PIHA I am curious to hear the reasons why people are choosing to stay. Anyone (player or owner) could you please give me a few good reasons why you have chosen to stay with the league....

and please avoid the "I am loyal to the league that has grown from 6 to 42 teams" because when you say that you leave out that it has now shrunk back down to 15 or fewer.

[mephisto7890]

Center ice!! It makes my smile to hear you are leaving! But for once You are right! Nobody cared about the league making money! They just cared if they made money! Look nobody put a gun to Flynn or any other owners head and said "Run the Growl or die!" He did it on his own account knowing damn well that he wouldnt get any money as all the owners in the league did! The owners of the league lost money every year until this last one! So dont tell me about not making any money Flynn. We have a great division out here in Colorado and its because the owners of the teams worked together to solve problems! You dont see any of them coming on here with every tiny problem that they have complaining and bashing the league. We (the players) just want to play some good hockey and THATS IT! It is only going to get better with Jami Yoder joining one of the RMD teams and getting involved with the league with his energy and organization. It never hurts to have one of the greatest roller defensemen of all time helping in league operations. I have to say with PIHA having without a doubt the 4 best players in CJ, Brian, Ciolli, and Jami in their league still makes PIHA the best league! Talent wise with the RMD and GAteway together there wont be ONE bad team.

Lets think about it! PIHA has learned some hard lessons, the teams have been narrowed down to 12 GOOD teams instead of 42 mostly bad and some good, the divisions are reasonably close to have multiple out of conference games over the length of a weekend or two, and they have almost all of the best players that play in "pro" leagues around the country. If im a player I know which league I would want to play in! A glorified rec "elite" league with a couple of decent players or a newly reformed pro league with the best players? Tough choice!

P.S. I Im joining Steve in Lala land i guess! I hope there is some room cause Steve's a big guy!

Those four players you mentioned are past their prime, they were great players but they are old now. I would certainly take these players over them:

Greg Thompson
John Moseson
John Pinheiro
Sean Sullivan
Mike Keating
Jim Redstreake
Charlie Sgrillo
Josh Laricchia
Danny Marmorstein
Mike Gardner
Joe D'Aloisio
Marc Genest
Darcy Anderson

Plus all the players that are playing in Southern Cal and Michigan, who cares if CJ Yoder, Brian Yingling, Mike Ciolli, or Jami Yoder plays, they wont make or break a league. They are good players but there are more good young players that will be playing in the AIHL.

The ship is almost submerged and the captain still thinks that the ship is fine and he is smart. As the old saying goes "the captain goes down with his ship". Cya piha.

[HiddenMickey]

Those four players you mentioned are past their prime, they were great players but they are old now. I would certainly take these players over them:

Greg Thompson
John Moseson
John Pinheiro
Sean Sullivan
Mike Keating
Jim Redstreake
Charlie Sgrillo
Josh Laricchia
Danny Marmorstein
Mike Gardner
Joe D'Aloisio
Marc Genest
Darcy Anderson

Plus all the players that are playing in Southern Cal and Michigan, who cares if CJ Yoder, Brian Yingling, Mike Ciolli, or Jami Yoder plays, they wont make or break a league. They are good players but there are more good young players that will be playing in the AIHL.

The ship is almost submerged and the captain still thinks that the ship is fine and he is smart. As the old saying goes "the captain goes down with his ship". Cya piha.

Do you know all these players personally? What makes you so sure all of these players will be playing in AIHL next year? I know 100% not all of them are in, so stop spreading stuff you can not back up. Good young players could be some anybody you grab off the street. This whole thing just seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors, a bunch of people feeling like they are not getting credit they feel they are due. I'll catch you on 'its a small world after all'.

[Stampede#11]

He never said they were playing in AIHL ... just that he would take them over the 4 players mentioned before.

[Bach35]

So you are saying you would take those players over Brian or CJ or Ciolli or Jami. Wow. If i am not mistaken didn't Brian lead the league in scoring for the fourth time in a row or something.

[thepredictor]

So you are saying you would take those players over Brian or CJ or Ciolli or Jami. Wow. If i am not mistaken didn't Brian lead the league in scoring for the fourth time in a row or something.

He lead it because he played in our lovely RMD division. Maybe if he went back East since the competition out there is tougher than when he played before he might not be leading in scoring anymore.

At AAU JO's which the mudcats played didn't they get beat by a bunch of barely 20 year olds in the Adult Gold!

Thats right they got beat up by teams who don't have scoring leaders. Instead all their players score goals. Not just one guy.

[seanth123]

On second thought, I don't have anything nice to say so I'm gonna stay out of this....I have better things to do with my time that'll actually help the sport rather than talk politics about leagues that are hundreds of miles from me now. Good luck everyone.

After reading all of these posts, and many cups of coffee later, I believe Chris Street has been the only one here with the best solution.

Stop arguing about "who" is the best. I can remember back in the day when I was young (a long time ago) and trying to play semi-pro ice hockey. We thought we were the best until the europeans came across the pond. However, you cannot compare ice to roller. Although ice hockey guys are favored when contact is the issue, the game strategies are very different. I prefer to play ice hockey, but I enjoy watching roller because I have respect for the game and it's skill. Their are simply things in roller you can do that are not possible on the pond. That gives the sport excitement.

What the europeans tend to have over us in US and Canada is more options. Multiple leagues, year round competition, and financial backing. Until we match them, they will rise to the surface.

Cmon guys, stop bickering and start working together, give each other mutual respect (even if in different leagues), and let's get this sport on track and prove that it has a future. In ice we learned this the hard way, but for big-headed, stupid ice hockey guys only looking to fight, we were smart enough to "see through the fog". YOU HAVE TO BE TOGETHER TO RISE TO THE TOP!

[cjbuild73]

I have been following all of this nonsense for the past few weeks. I have friends who play(ed) in PIHA and I myself would have made a go at it if I wasn't 3 kids deep and a 60 hour job on top of it.
Through all of this one thing is tremendously clear. The PIHA front office is completely responsible for letting this thing grow out of control. Here is a novel idea...come on to the message boards and defend yourselves and your league. Most peoples beefs seem to come from one main sticking point...lack of communication. I think most would give you some measure of respect if you came on here to RATIONALLY AND CIVILLY (that would be directed at all parties) discuss peoples issues. But then again if there are a lot of skeletons in the closets they may not want to discuss anything (my money is on this).

[Stampede#11]

From what I read ... calling them on to a message board would be impossible!

They didn't return the calls & emails mid-season of the people who all helped to line their pockets ... so why would they come out on a board now after the event?!?

[Vengeance]

I believe the new blurb on the PIHA page is a summation of all that has occurred. A temporary e-mail address at the PIHA league office? Give me a break. This office consists of a few ethernet wires swirling around some IKEA furniture in the back corner of a dusty garage. Maybe a PIHA banner stuck on the wall somewhere with thumbtacks.

PIHA had it's run with a model than consists of running your own show, franchise style. If you want to buy into something like this next time, I recommend signing to run a Subway or McDonalds.

Ultimately, the PIHA has minimal assets and investment. It will not be liquid enough to continue. Consider this: entrepreneurs and venture capitalists have to be one of two things; smart enough to know a model will work itself, or dedicated enough to put in the hours to make a model work. They definitely weren't smart enough, that leaves one option: dedication. To make PIHA work, it would have taken individuals willing to put their LIVES aside. Gentlemen, the Yoders are no such men.

But, hey, if you really want to voice your concerns please feel free to e-mail them on their newly-furnished yahoo mail account. After all, they did take the time to sign-up for this account by creating a login name, verifying the password twice, and probably solving one of those little CAPTCHA things to validate it all.

[NLane]

Doesn't the move to Colorado for some of these players (& their father) strike anybody that it was for Olympic reasons & NOT just for setting up a new division? Women's softball is getting the toss, along with several other venues, to make room for new ones including roller sports. What will happen when it really kicks off? These people will be involved with other projects but they will still need to pick the best players and not just from the West. So all you players, just keep playing in the most exposed level that you can because they will eventually need you when all is said & done. I remember when several of our skaters were invited to the hardball hockey camp in Colo. Springs years ago. This was done thru the National event even tho we did not skate the hardball discipline. They all knew they stood a snowball's chance of making the team but went anyway. Politics is a big part of it but the best is the best and questions will have to be answered by paying sponsors if the best are not chosen for a national team, not ignored by a small board of directors.

[Alvare71]

I dont understand how anyone can say this is a bussiness move.

For one a League that is getting money that should pay there referees and put money into the league........

Now if a founder wants a salary well it should be a percentage thats fine, but times 3........well how much is really left over......If all of the owners are doing all of the work.......


Well not a good bussiness move....

[ACCCT2]

Hmmm...kinda' brings to mind an old "Dire Straits" tune: "Money For Nothing". $4500 USD per team's worth.:(

[Stampede#11]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Showin your age there dude!!

When I watched the video for that I thought it was awesome ... you watch it now and it is so very very bad.

Like Leppard's "lets get rocked" video ....

[Rzorbck]

Doesn't the move to Colorado for some of these players (& their father) strike anybody that it was for Olympic reasons & NOT just for setting up a new division?

I must have missed this announcement. Did USARS move to Colorado? Last I knew they were headquartered in Lincoln, NE.

By the way, one of these players moved to Colorado because he had a contract to play in the Central Hockey League. Two of the players moved to Colorado to run a competitive kids program which they did until recently. The father lives on the other side of the country, not in Colorado. I don't know much about the final player so I won't try to guess why he lives in Colorado.

[mephisto7890]

Do you know all these players personally? What makes you so sure all of these players will be playing in AIHL next year? I know 100% not all of them are in, so stop spreading stuff you can not back up. Good young players could be some anybody you grab off the street. This whole thing just seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors, a bunch of people feeling like they are not getting credit they feel they are due. I'll catch you on 'its a small world after all'.

Maybe you should re-read my post, I said I would take the younger players over the old guys. Those players I listed are the future of inline hockey, Id be willing to bet that those players wont be playing in piha next season.

[Alvare71]

I am going to confirm, I will not be playing in either league next year......I am content at the Anahiem hockey Club..........


I enjoy the A division and its only $140 for 11 games and a 15 minute drive....Plus our sponsor paid for our uniforms....:D

[GR8SK8r06]

Maybe you should re-read my post, I said I would take the younger players over the old guys. Those players I listed are the future of inline hockey, Id be willing to bet that those players wont be playing in piha next season.

Im sorry but I was at the USA tryouts where most of those players you mentioned were and CJ and Ciolli are still hands down the best players. When they dominate in a skate that good every year you know they are the best!! There really is no comparison and any of those guys you mentioned will agree that those two at least still dominate. Plus CJ and Brian were the leading scorers in Germany. Not buying your arguements. Plus CJ is only 32, he isnt that old. Dont get me wrong Sully and Thompson are still amazing players and more importantly great guys, they just have a ways to go experience wise in becoming better than CJ and Ciolli at inline.

[mephisto7890]

Im sorry but I was at the USA tryouts where most of those players you mentioned were and CJ and Ciolli are still hands down the best players. When they dominate in a skate that good every year you know they are the best!! There really is no comparison and any of those guys you mentioned will agree that those two at least still dominate. Plus CJ and Brian were the leading scorers in Germany. Not buying your arguements. Plus CJ is only 32, he isnt that old. Dont get me wrong Sully and Thompson are still amazing players and more importantly great guys, they just have a ways to go experience wise in becoming better than CJ and Ciolli at inline.

Big shocker that you support them. Why dont they still dominate in the tournament series anymore? Pama Cyclones, Mission Snipers, and a few other younger pro teams have surpassed the mudcats on the tournament circuit.

[Hystyk28]

First of all, comparing what players play in what league has nothing to why there are now 2 leagues. Those "old washed up guys" seem to be doing just fine in the roller hockey world. Maybe a drink off should be the deciding factor in what leagues "the best."

But let me digress, the PIHA has, and always has had a terrible, um, business model. This "model" is supported mainly by roller hockey yahoos(yes, i was one of them) What once started as a humble league predominantly run by volunteerism at an affordable price, has morphed into a massive entity that is still far away run by volunteerism and oh let's just say a lot more money. So very simply those that were doing a majority of the work probably felt like they should at least be heard. Maybe if King George was a little easier on that taxation thing, we'd all have English accents. Anyway, there are plenty of companies that thought they had a great hold on their industry(70's 80's GM) only to see them near bankruptcy due to a competitor, like Toyota(other imports also: don't fret fast and furious kids.), who employed a better product and business model that adapted to the times. So time will tell, if the new league(terrible name boys), brings the goods. One thing is for sure, Mr. Yoder has done a lot for the sport and as much as I disagree with the ways he did things when I was fortunate enough to run that cash cow in Harrisburg, no one can take that away from him. And for anyone to challenge the skill set of either Brian, CJ, or that goalie that lines up as D Jami, is obviously ill informed even if those guys are really really really really old.

And IF, IF, anybody is threatening legal action, that is just silly. The league has not followed through on many things over the years.

The only cease and desist letter going out should be mine to Mazer for the use of my logo.(bought fairly for one Big Mac value from Kenny Meyer...it was Supersized, ah the good ole days)

Sorry for the Todd Wiley length post, but I ran out of beer and my girlfriend is home, the Perfect Storm of terribleness.

old fat and slow,
Dave Rockhill

[DannyG]

As someone who has lost money big time (Mid 5-figures, big time for me, anyway) in semi-pro sports twice ('82 & '89), I am on record as saying the local PIHA "franchise" would not be able to operate effectively in it's second year.

The PIHA concept would work, but it requires a set of business controls that are not in place. This control system was bypassed, indeed, in the name of "spreading the sport." Too bad Charlie Yoder decided to do it that way. The list of people that have thereby taken advantage of Charlie is, frankly, long and arduous.

To characterize Charlie as money grubbing in this is neither accurate nor honorable.

I hope that the PIHA is able to re-form itself. I would like to think that the AIHA can do something benefcial for the sport, but I will go on record as saying it's system will not work at all.

I hope that none are offended by my obsrvations...I and my family will continue to support the local franchise both in spirit and with our pocketbook.

Good luck to all in the coming year and following.

[TourBandits]

Danny - Can you share some thoughts on why you feel it will not work? AIHL.

Jon

[RichardGraham]

Hi Jon,

Danny, if he chooses, can answer this question on a new thread. This one has run its course long ago, and I'm sorry I let it go for so long. Sometimes I'm not as quick on the trigger as I need to be, and I apologize to all parties who have been bashed unfairly.