A fun point about officiating...

[PGHhockey]

There have been countless threads on officiating, but I don't think this point has ever been raised:

Oftentimes, a player, when arguing a call (or no-call), will bring up the fact that they are paying you to do the job, so you should do it right.

I agree with that, but not necessarily on the "paid" principle. Sure, we're paid fairly well, but any of us that wear the stripes know that it isn't always the most fun or highly-respected job out there. Most of us do it just to stay around the game and get out there - the money is just a nice perk.

But, consider this:

Players pay us, so that apparently gives players every right to whine, cry, complain, and yell about how we call the game.

Well, players (especially PIHA), you have sponsors, right? And they are essentially helping to pay you so you can play (well, at least pay less for playing).

So, let's say you're sponsored by the big, local construction company and by your top-line defenseman's dad's financial company.

How would you take it if the owner of the construction company got on your case really bad about letting that puck go off your stick when you had a clean 3-on-1 break? What if Dad's financial company's owner berated you and told you you're a terrible hockey player because you didn't look up and see the wide open teammate sitting on the edge of the goal crease?

Wouldn't be fun.

Just consider it the next time you go to bark at an official. You guys make mistakes when you're playing, and people are essentially giving you money to play. We make mistakes while we're officiating, and people are essentially giving us money to ref. :)

[DannyG]

...We make mistakes while we're officiating... :)

PGH's entire quote is a very astute and entertaining observation. At the risk of hijacking his intent, I want to expound on "the purpose of the referee":

"...to make a call so the game can continue."

Not necessarily the right call, because that is impossible. Three people see the play three different ways: we go with the ref's view, rather than the red player's view, or the blue player's view, so we can continue the game. The ref may have seen it wrong. Doesn't matter, we go with his call anyway...

If everybody would understand that, life would be so much easier.

Last night was soccer playoffs at my joint. Three different times I had to courteously and politely respond to players that "yeah, I may have seen that one wrong. I called what I saw." Many other times, perhaps less courteously, I responded to player "inquiries," "C'mon, that one wasn't even close...wait for the close ones to yell at me about, eh?" ...and some such...

There..I'm finished now...

[minutemen]

Nice post. I have to say it is not easy being a ref. Some refs are out there because they love the game and money is just a perk. But there are a lot or refs that do it for the money and do not care about the game. This is not just in PIHA but all sports. The problem with PIHA is that they can get away with it. The refs need to be evaluated and schooled on the rules. Here is what I how I think it should be done:

1. All refs should evaluated at least 8 times a season.
2. Off season camps in each region.
3. All divisions have exhibition tournaments for the refs to come and get practice.
4. The top 10 refs from the evaluations get a bonus at end of season.
5. Incentive program.

These are just a few points I think can help the officiating for PIHA. I am not complaining, just trying to help the cause. I see both sides of on the issue. The main problem that I have found with the reffing over my 5 years in the league is consistency. The rules should be the same in NJ, PA, MA and the rest of the country where PIHA is played. Refs will make mistakes that is part of the Profession, and it is in all sports. Yes you make a great point, players make mistakes as well. Also I think players and refs should attend a clinic on how to show respect and professionalism on the rink. I have seen both players and refs step way over the line. Now once again this happens in all sports, but if PIHA wants to set an example to the young players in the sport, we all have to be professional.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Justin,

I agree with your points. In the pre season north east meetings we talked extensively about this.

i thought that if every teamput up some money and we had a ref conference prior to the season in a central location where the money the teams put up would pay for the hotels, etc for the referees attending.

There any training and coordination would take place, etc to get all the refs on the same page.

Then during the season, every ref who participated in the confrence would be paid an extra incentive each game.

it would be a step in the right direction......

[PGHhockey]

"C'mon, that one wasn't even close...wait for the close ones to yell at me about, eh?"

LOVE IT! I'm definitely going to add that one to my ever-expanding list of things I say to players.

As stated in other numerous posts, ref consistency always has been, and always will be an issue at every level of ice, roller, and dek hockey. That's how it is in every sport on every level. When you have humans and judgements involved - there will be differences. All we can really do is know the rules, and do our absolute best to enforce the rules within reason and to allow the players to play the game safely and competitively.

It's obvious that you can't perfect or "fix" ref consistency, so how can we improve it?

Minutemen made some good points there. Some of which are workable, others which would only lead to more issues.

1. I agree 100% with ref evaluation. I think it should be done regularly at all levels. Most rinks/leagues have a "head ref" or something similar, and it should be his job to evaluate the refs. The Head Ref usually gets a perk (whether it's more money, or making their own schedule), so why not give them some extra responsibility for getting those perks? Refs should be evaluated on the following:
*Appearance, dress, and punctuality
*Attitude toward partner, players, coaches, and staff
*Skating, positioning, body language, and signals
*Knowledge of rules
*Handling of "ugly games" (rivalries, known goons, altercations, etc.)
*Degree of improvement over last evaluation

2. For AAU/USARS, we really only have to attend 1 clinic per year to renew our certification. That's not nearly enough. At the very least, each league (whether it be pro, college, high school, youth, or adult) should hold a ref meeting between each season and in the middle of each season. If nothing else, at least go over the complaints that have been fielded from the players, coaches, and other refs during these meetings. Clear up situations that aren't being called consistently among your staff. After a few seasons of this (assuming you dont have much turnover), guys will start to mesh and call the games in a similar fashion.

3. I would say that most officials think they are above "practice", as stated by minutemen. The only practice (besides formal training classes) that works is experience.

4. A performance "bonus" just stinks of collusion and backhanded deals. It's very hard to evaluate a cash bonus based on purely subjective grounds. It's easy to give performance bonuses in most business - you can always quantify if someone is doing better or worse than his/her peers. Not so easy to do that with officiating. I could easily see that one turning ugly.

5. What kind of incentive program could be used? Again, I think this profession is a bit too subjective for that. One of our local guys recommended listing all of the certified referees on a master list, and then grouping them according to experience, skill, and attitude to decide their pay rates. (i.e. Group A, 10+ years, excellent refs get Tier 1 payment...Group C, 1-3 years experience, average refs get Tier 3 payment...etc.)

[GR8SK8r06]

Everyone has good points on this subject. I play in the league and I also officiate 3 days a week. There is always room for improvement, especially for the pro refs. I could definately agree with some clinics and incentives for the refs. Yet if a player tells me "i pay for you to ref" after I make a call I would simply laugh at him if I were reffing. Dont all the players in the rec leagues ultimately pay for officiating anyways. I have never heard that from them! So I dont see a legitimate point for them to make in those regards. On the other had who cares what the players think while you are reffing. I sure dont and it makes me a better ref for it. The refs will always recieve criticism for their calls, so they might as well try to be as fair and just as possible and they will ultimately have the respect of most the the players.

[TheSnake22]

One thing that kills me about refs...

In one of our games this year a ref made an atrocious Too Many Men call. The puck travelled near our bench during a line change but no one from our team touched the puck. This was the kid's first weekend of reffing PIHA games. After the games, I said, "you know you blew that call right?" and he responded, "Ya i know but i couldn't change it once i blew the whistle..."

WTF? I mean it's one thing to have conviction about calls even if you're not 100% sure, but when you know you messed up and you make the call anyway?

[quick_dry]

best things there is just quick a 'my mistake, sorry guys, thought it got played' and face-off at centre (or hwerever your particular rulebook says 'ref mistake' face-off should occur).

In running time games I think referees need to be more mindful of using referee timeouts - I know when i call a game, if both teams are stuffing around, then the clock can run - but if one team is wasting time, but it isn't worth ruining the game with a penalty call. Stop the clock - most of the time it is just gamesmanship and their query evaporates as soon as they know the clock isn't winding down.

I disagree with the tiered payment, that really doesn't get you around the subjectivity problems discussed in the 'bonus' idea. Another problem is that some places can (and have) try scheduling lower tier refs because it costs less. have a set payment for each level of game they call - but if someone is not up to it, then they don't get scheduled onto those games.

[BLIZARD_HOCKEY]

WTF? I mean it's one thing to have conviction about calls even if you're not 100% sure, but when you know you messed up and you make the call anyway?

Believe it or not, that's what their taught to do. The referee controls the game and if they screw up a call, they are told to go with with they first called. They are told they are in control of the game in no way should players, coaches or fans change your opinion about your calls.

[DannyG]

...that's what their taught to do. The referee controls the game and if they screw up a call, they are told to go with with they first called...
must say I'm enjoying this thread.

I had the good fortune in 1986 to be taught by the gentleman who, at the time, was the chief referee of FIFA (and that's the whole world, gang)...it was a total eye-opener.

No longer was the rule book etched in stone. No longer was referee training a menu of "how-to's." no longer was the call this way or that way, and nothing in between...

Take the book, apply the rules as fairly as possible to the game in front of you, remain calm (I'm still workin' on that one, eh?) and move in or back off as you need to.

Some actual quotes:

"Ya know, I think I blew that call in the first period...that happens again, I'll probably call it different next time."

"Harry, I know you understand that's the only call I'll blow tonight, right?" (always engenders uproarious laughter from the whole bench)

After (like above) an inadvertant, wrong decision..."Aw, fellahs; I obviously blew that one dead too quick. Let's face off over here, eh?"

Makes for a much more relaxed and confident official.

[TheSnake22]

i dunno where you got that from... thats absurd. if you mess up a call and you know you messed it up, all you have to do is skate over to the other ref, say, "hey maybe you could say you saw it better/differently since i know i just blew that call so we can make it right and i don't look like a tard?" I mean borderline is one thing. Plain wrong and knowing it is another...

Personally, i rarely see hockey referees consult each other unless neither one saw what happened and they both need to join together to concoct an anecdote about what they think might have possibly occurred... Other sports, even ones that in general have much worse officiating overall, such as football, basketball, and even baseball, officials conference to discuss calls more frequently than you seen in hockey.

This can also produce especially awesome situations when you get stuck with the all too common pairing of refs where one guy calls everything and the other guy calls nothing, another one of my favorite officiating scenarios...

[DannyG]

i dunno where you got that from... thats absurd. if you mess up a call and you know you messed it up, all you have to do is skate over to the other ref...

Like in most rinks throughout the country, our local program has players in various sports that have played their game up through the collegiate, national and even international level. One of our soccer games last week had players who have represented their country -from three different countries- in the game at the same time.

Our's is a small floor. We use only one referee. I guess I'd look like even more of a fool if I were talking to myself.

We don't keep score by uniform number here, we know every single player personally by name. Makes for a much more friendly atmoshpere.

Frankly, the referee that admits he goofed, and fixes "retrievable errors," puts himself in the position to be respected a lot more than if he were to engage in subterfugal coverups and excuses for mistakes. At least, that's my story for the moment...

[TheSnake22]

I guess we're comparing Men's leagues to PIHA, but for men's leagues where i have reffing experience, i understand what you're saying. I make sure i go up to the players i know on the teams and tell them to keep they're team under control and i'll buy them a beer. works double for underage kids lol... I was more talking about the higher levels of hockey where many times i've see a pair of refs who are content to let their partner make calls they don't agree with as long as that person doesn't question his own calls in return... In mens league, by all means keep it loose, do as best you can, and try not to get high sticked in the face or hit in the junk...

[irsh31]

All of you make interesting points concerning officiating. There is one point that I have to add. The goal of any experienced official is to be "invisible." I have been officiating and conducting clinics over the past twenty years. This is the main goal. After a game, I want to hear players talking about their experiences during the game for better or worse. I grade referees and myself on the "involvement factor." The last thing I want to hear is commentary about the officiating. I want players to ask themselves later...."Hey who reffed that game." Yes! I did a good job. Obviously this cannot be the case all the time but it should be our goal everytime we go out there. This season I have heard so much confusion from players and I can understand it. Games are not consistent. I don't even know half the referees in this league because we never had a meeting. I had to download my own rulebook. We have to officiate our games some where between the Stampede level and the Boston Swamp Rat level of contact. I'm sorry Mike but I have to say it. You want full contact and the Jersey boys want traveling violations. For anyone that cares, this is how I call your games. Some might just say badly, but hey I'm trying:

1. ANY INTENT TO INJURE MUST BE CALLED
2. ANY INFRATION NO MATTER HOW SLIGHT THAT TAKES AWAY A GOAL SCORING OPPORTUNITY MUST BE CALLED
3. ANY INFRACTION THAT CAUSES AN IMMEDIATE CHANGE OF POSSESSION MUST BE CALLED
4. BUMPING AND GRINDING ALONG THE BOARDS OR A PUSH AFTER A PASS OR SHOT WILL NOT BE CALLED AS ALONG AS PLAYERS KEEP THEIR STICKS AND ELBOWS DOWN. ALSO, ANY GLOVES TO THE FACE WILL BE CALLED.
THEREFORE I DO ALLOW CONTACT, SORRY.

Owners please get rid of the stupid overtime rules!!! The Fire Ants still want to kill me. I respect their coach too much to deal with the penalty shot nonsense in overtime again. Let's just play until someone scores or shoot it out.

Whoooh ...... I gotta calm down and go take some geritol.

[PGHhockey]

All excellent points, guys.

Irish - what reason does a player have to push/shove an opponent after a shot/pass? I understand the concept in ice hockey, but not sure there's room for it in inline hockey. You can just as easily ride the body out hip-to-hip and get the same effect (keeping the player away from a give-and-go or a rebound).

[DannyG]

...one point that I have to add. The goal of any experienced official is to be "invisible." ...grade referees and myself on the "involvement factor." I want players to ask themselves later...."Hey who reffed that game."

We have to officiate games some where between ...levels...Mike wants full contact and the Jersey boys want traveling violations.

Whoooh ...... I gotta calm down and go take some geritol.

Wow, that is a great point!

Players that deliberately want to play the game hard but clean make it easy to be invisible. Players that are going to cross the line continuously until you call them on it demand that the referee be involved. The first set of players set the tone of the game themselves. The second set demand that the referee set the tone...usually accompanied by as much griping as they can get in.

I get frustrated by those players who really believe that "the ref controls the game." What they miss is that the ref only controls the game if and when the players refuse to.

...and I'm all out of geritol, so there.

[5280]

All excellent points, guys.

Irish - what reason does a player have to push/shove an opponent after a shot/pass? I understand the concept in ice hockey, but not sure there's room for it in inline hockey. You can just as easily ride the body out hip-to-hip and get the same effect (keeping the player away from a give-and-go or a rebound).


There's no "reason" for it, but it gets back to the point of the ref not interjecting himself into the game unless he needs to be. If there's no intent to injure, it doesn't affect a scoring chance and it isn't creating a hostile game environment, I'd rather the ref go with the motto, "no harm, no foul".

Now, a stick to the ribs or a slash away from the play is a different matter, because they can be dangerous, and they escalate the hostility.