Inline Hockey Numbers

[Dave Garland]

Hey everyone,

I was curious if anyone has information on how many people "play" inline hockey in the United States.

Play of course has many different meanings. How many AAU/USA Inline registered players are there? Are there other databases of players (including of course rec league players)?

Also, what defines someone as an inline hockey "player"? Once a month? Four times a year?

Thanks and I appreciate any information (and sources of information)

-David Garland

[ACCCT2]

Hi Dave --

UPDATED --

Check out the Sporting Goods Manufactures Association (SGMA) website (www.sgma.com): click "research reports" and then under "General" click the "Sports Participation Topline Report 2006" -- their most recent survey/report indicates a 7-year (1998 - 2005) decline of 46% (3,876,000 in 1998 to 2,094,000 in 2005). You can certainly contact them directly about anything they might not be publishing (regarding inline hockey), as well ask them your "participation" questions and maybe quiz them about their "methodologies".

The National Sporting Goods Association (NSGA) should have them in their "Sports Participation Reports" ("SPR's"), but interestingly, inline roller hockey is apparently now so unimportant and inconsequential as a sport (and sport market/segment) that it's no longer even listed in any of their current reports -- as it always was up until a few years ago. AGAIN, you can certainly contact them directly about anything they might not be publishing, as well ask them your "participation" questions and once again, maybe "quiz" them about their "methodologies".

The NSGA website: www.nsga.org

[ACCCT2]

UPDATED info in above post.

[Dave Garland]

Excellent, great info!

[ACCCT2]

Hi Dave --

I just got SGMA's last survey measurement that put inline roller hockey participation at 1.2 million -- a 70% decline (crash?) from 1995 when it was at the sport's high water-mark of 4.2 million (ouch!:eek:)...

[Dave Garland]

Yikes. I will have to contact them and see how those numbers are "defined" meaning what it means to be a participant.

[ACCCT2]

Don't worry, Dave -- a good marketing/ad-guy (like yourself?) can 'spin' numbers almost any way they need to be "spun" -- that's why really good "marketing/ad-guys" always wind up running someone's presidential or political "damage-control" campaigns...!!!;)

[Dave Garland]

That is correct :)

[RichardGraham]

Dave,

Be careful how you "spin." Journalists like myself like to question that spin and make you look bad, especially when you've been coached by a "spinner" whose spin would make Bill O'Reilly's head spin clear off. ;)

It's like quoting game attendance. RHI used to have all sorts of attendance numbers, and there were games I attended that they must have been counting cockroaches and ghosts as well as spectators.

My advice? Stick to the truth. It will get everyone a greater distance in the long run.

[ACCCT2]

Dave,

Be careful how you "spin."

Yeah, be REALLY "careful" how you "spin", Dave ("wink-wink"!) -- I second that...!!!



My advice? Stick to the truth. It will get everyone a greater distance in the long run.

And if that doesn't work, yup -- "spin" the "truth" as best you can...!!!;)

In all seriousness though, Richard's correct about not overdoing what I might call "hyperbole".

[CUDangled]

When I read numbers like those, without even trying to "spin" them, I immediately start to wonder how they were calculated. In 1995 were they counting the kids that only played in the streets with 3-buckle Rollerblades and mylec sticks curved with their feet? Since that "fad" has essentially disappeared, I can see why the numbers have dropped. I find it hard to believe that the numbers in "competitive" (sanctioned leagues/tournaments) have dropped off that much. In my own hockey world I have access to more rinks now than I did then, the tournament series are larger than they were then, you have entire manufacturing lines that based on inline, but have crept into ice...are these signs of a 70% declining sport?

I would also be interested to see what the % decline of others sports are. Teenageers today know the cheat codes for Grand Theft Auto, rather than how to throw a curveball...so perhaps these numbers in the report are just a sign of the change in times OVERALL of active sports and not necessarily the decline of JUST roller hockey in the sports world?

??? Just speculating...

[CUDangled]

It's like quoting game attendance. RHI used to have all sorts of attendance numbers, and there were games I attended that they must have been counting cockroaches and ghosts as well as spectators.


I know exactly what you mean! Just because a team/league/etc gives away tickets at the gas station with a fill-up, does not mean that ticket was USED. So you gave out 1000 tickets through a combination of sales and promotions...big deal. How many people showed up!?! Just like when you watch (or go to) an NHL game and they say this is XXth sell-out this season and you look around at empty seats.

[ACCCT2]

When I read numbers like those, without even trying to "spin" them, I immediately start to wonder how they were calculated...

I find it hard to believe that the numbers in "competitive" (sanctioned leagues/tournaments) have dropped off that much. In my own hockey world I have access to more rinks now than I did then, the tournament series are larger than they were then, you have entire manufacturing lines that based on inline, but have crept into ice...are these signs of a 70% declining sport?

I would also be interested to see what the % decline of others sports are...so perhaps these numbers in the report are just a sign of the change in times OVERALL of active sports and not necessarily the decline of JUST roller hockey in the sports world?

??? Just speculating...

While you might want to 'disbelieve' the numbers, the survey/report "methodolgies" used are consistent (otherwise the studies would never be accepted within the industry). Sometimes we can be too close -- emotionally as well as physically -- to something to actually 'see' the classic "BIG picture" and the reality is that inline roller hockey is "off the radar" as a meaningful sport in the consciousness of the sports industry and the vast majority of consumers that such sports industries obviously have to cater to.:(

Don't get me wrong, as I absolutely DO see a myriad of opportunities in all this if the sport can somehow properly and dramatically turn things around...;)

[quick_dry]

be careful of being so North-America-centric - there is a whole wide world out there :) and yes, the participation numbers in leagues are falling overall.

I imagine that other sports may have a fall in participation with kids playing playstation instead of soccer, but even proportionately, inline has participation numbers dropping more than other sports.

[FLATBALL39]

When I read numbers like those, without even trying to "spin" them, I immediately start to wonder how they were calculated. In 1995 were they counting the kids that only played in the streets with 3-buckle Rollerblades and mylec sticks curved with their feet? Since that "fad" has essentially disappeared, I can see why the numbers have dropped. I find it hard to believe that the numbers in "competitive" (sanctioned leagues/tournaments) have dropped off that much. In my own hockey world I have access to more rinks now than I did then, the tournament series are larger than they were then, you have entire manufacturing lines that based on inline, but have crept into ice...are these signs of a 70% declining sport?

I would also be interested to see what the % decline of others sports are. Teenageers today know the cheat codes for Grand Theft Auto, rather than how to throw a curveball...so perhaps these numbers in the report are just a sign of the change in times OVERALL of active sports and not necessarily the decline of JUST roller hockey in the sports world?

??? Just speculating...

Dave,

Hello -- according to a large IHC "I" "AM" really "ACCCT2" -- so this introduction perhaps is not really necessary.

I don't know if there is a way to send a print-ready, post-scripted Portable Document Format (PDF) attachment, but I DO have exactly and ALL of the latest (most recent) numbers you're craving!

So -- izzit possible to 'attach' (somehow) within the IHC platform?

:cool:

"Lascivio hockey, ergo sum."

[ACCCT2]

be careful of being so North-America-centric - there is a whole wide world out there :) and yes, the participation numbers in leagues are falling overall.

I imagine that other sports may have a fall in participation with kids playing playstation instead of soccer, but even proportionately, inline has participation numbers dropping more than other sports.

Actually, a good thing to actually do might be to actually read both SGMA and NSGA reports -- they're online as per what I told Dave. Trust me, the SGMA and NSGA are definitely not "out to get" or "bashing" inline hockey like some on this board might accuse them of...!!!;)

[Dave Garland]

Flatball,

I would love to check them out. You can email me at [email protected]


In terms of "spinning", I was just messing around ;)

[quick_dry]

Actually, a good thing to actually do might be to actually read both SGMA and NSGA reports -- they're online as per what I told Dave. Trust me, the SGMA and NSGA are definitely not "out to get" or "bashing" inline hockey like some on this board might accuse them of...!!!;)
i'd love to take a look at them, when i get time

[William Bourque]

I know exactly what you mean! Just because a team/league/etc gives away tickets at the gas station with a fill-up, does not mean that ticket was USED. So you gave out 1000 tickets through a combination of sales and promotions...big deal. How many people showed up!?! Just like when you watch (or go to) an NHL game and they say this is XXth sell-out this season and you look around at empty seats.

NHL arena's announce the number of tickets sold to the game, not the amount of people who sell out. The team still makes the money of the season ticket holders if they show up or not. Remember, ticket agencies own a lot of the tickets in every stadium, if people don't buy the tickets, there isn't a real person to fill the seats. Hence the "sell out", but empty seats in the stadium deal.

[PGHhockey]

Case in point:

I went to a game at The Joe when I was traveling through Detroit for work - same night as a Tigers playoff game was on TV (road game). The PA man proudly announced some ridiculous attendance figure (since everyone in hockey knew they weren't selling out any games) - while you looked around and it was probably at 75% capacity.

The kicker - most of those at the game had HEADPHONES to (presumably) listen to the Tigers game.

It's HOCKEYTOWN people! Not TigerTown!

[CUDangled]

While you might want to 'disbelieve' the numbers, the survey/report "methodolgies" used are consistent (otherwise the studies would never be accepted within the industry). Sometimes we can be too close -- emotionally as well as physically -- to something to actually 'see' the classic "BIG picture" and the reality is that inline roller hockey is "off the radar" as a meaningful sport in the consciousness of the sports industry and the vast majority of consumers that such sports industries obviously have to cater to.:(

Don't get me wrong, as I absolutely DO see a myriad of opportunities in all this if the sport can somehow properly and dramatically turn things around...;)

I agree that inline hockey is "off the radar"...but I never really felt that it was ON the radar...so I don't really see that as a decline, but simply a sign that we play an unpopular sport.

For that matter ICE hockey isn't really on the radar for most people with. They know what it is, but that is about it.

[ACCCT2]

I agree that inline hockey is "off the radar"...but I never really felt that it was ON the radar...so I don't really see that as a decline, but simply a sign that we play an unpopular sport.

Actually, it once was very much "ON the radar" (mid-90's), but the industry and short-sighted leadership of the RHI blew it with their carpet-bagging attitudes towards the sport itself and public at large.



For that matter ICE hockey isn't really on the radar for most people with. They know what it is, but that is about it.

And ice hockey does indeed have its own image problems and is quite frankly almost "off the radar" and conciousness of major sponsor/advertiser/media minds (especially being on "Versus").

[PGHhockey]

Unfortunately, hockey in general is a niche market as things stand right now. I think it's basically because of what we call "barriers to entry" in business.

It's pretty easy and very cheap to open up a website or eBay account and start selling clothes, electronics, whatever. Very low barrier to entry in that market, so there are a ton of people doing it.

On the flipside - it is not cheap, nor easy, to get into robotics. Very few people in the game, very much a niche market. Very high barrier to entry in that market, so very few people do it.

Now...

Let's take soccer, for example. By all stripped-down basics, soccer is essentially the same type of game as hockey. The goal is to get an object in your opponent's net.

So, all you need to get into playing soccer is a ball and an open field with a net. Mom can pick up a soccer ball for $10 at ****'s (hahaha - umm...I mean the sporting goods chain that shares a namesake as a portion of the male genitals), and Dad can take him to the field to kick the ball around for free during warm months. Extremely low barrier to entry there. Maybe a cheap pair of spikes when the kid's ready to play for a team.

And hockey, on the other hand. Sure, you can buy a $20 stick and a $3 ball and go play in the driveway, or tennis court, or whatever and learn the basics of passing, shooting, and stickhandling.

But - even to get into dekhockey, you still need a cheap minimum of the $30 helmet, $15 shinguards, $10 elbow pads, and $20 gloves.

So Little Johnny wants to play inline? Bump up those prices for gear suited for inline. Throw in the $75 for skates. And at least $5 for each time he wants to get on the rink for sticktime.

Ice Hockey? You pretty much have to be upper-middle class to afford to put a kid into ice hockey these days.

HIGH barriers of entry for hockey. Therefore, less people getting into it.

[CUDangled]

Actually, it once was very much "ON the radar" (mid-90's), but the industry and short-sighted leadership of the RHI blew it with their carpet-bagging attitudes towards the sport itself and public at large.


I guess we just have a different opinion of what is/is not considered a revelent sport in this country. As much as I love inline hockey...I guess I still just feel that if I tell someone I play "inline" or "roller" hockey and they say "huh"? Then it is still irrelevent. When I have to explain that it isn't played in the street and it is actually on a rink inside a building designed for that purpose, that just makes me feel like I am playing a fringe sport.

[5280]

And ice hockey does indeed have its own image problems and is quite frankly almost "off the radar" and conciousness of major sponsor/advertiser/media minds (especially being on "Versus").

The big problem, even for ice hockey is that it just isn't a "television friendly" sport.

There's a three inch black object zipping around so the cameras have a hard time tracking it, with a 40 inch barrier blocking the view of it, much of the time. Fox tried their stupid glowing puck, which just turned-off hockey fans without attracting new fans. Plus, the speed and grace of the sport just isn't captured by a TV camera.

Then, there's the rules (especially in ice, with icing, offsides, and until recently, the two line pass). To a newbee fan, there's an exciting play, and then all of a sudden, for no obvious reason, there's a whistle, and everyone stops.

In addion, there's not a lot of natural commercial break time, especially in a well played game with few whistles. There's substitutions on the fly, which are hard to keep-up with, if you're not there live, and, for ice, there's 20 minutes of play, followed by 20 minutes of break, with filler talk.

To fall in love with the sport, you have to be at games. I don't think it will ever be a major TV sport, outside of Canada. And, in today's world, TV drives a sport's growth (see X-Games).

[PGHhockey]

"Sports" that I've seen on major TV:

Bowling: The only thing exciting about bowling ended in 8th grade when you finally realized you weren't gonna get laid in the back of the building. The only exciting thing about watching bowling? Your guess is as good as mine.

Poker: All this does is give every average Joe that plays a weekend game with 5 buddies a chance to say: "I never would have raised on that hand in the small blind. I should go to the WSOP next year, I could beat all these guys!" Sure, go for it.

Fishing: Are you kidding?

NASCAR: One of the most popular, widely-watched "sports" of our time. How on earth is it "good TV" to watch a bunch of cars drive in an oval, make occasional stops for tires, etc., and hopefully see a potentially deadly accident? Yikes.

Spelling Bee: Oh my God.

SCRABBLE: Read above.

[5280]

"Sports" that I've seen on major TV:

Good point. But, the one thing those "sports" all have in common is that everybody can relate to them. I have bowled, played poker, fished, drove too fast, spelled and played scrabble.

Heck, I've even run around a field kicking a ball. But, if you can't stand up on skates, it's tougher to identify with hockey players, or appreciate the skills.

[ECHOHockey]

I follow your logic...but then please explain bull riding.

I cannot relate to this in ANY way, yet I see it all the time on TV. I am sure this "sport" is popular SOMEWHERE...just not where I live! ;-)

[5280]

I follow your logic...but then please explain bull riding.

I cannot relate to this in ANY way, yet I see it all the time on TV. I am sure this "sport" is popular SOMEWHERE...just not where I live! ;-)

Can't explain that one. Curling, on the other hand, I can explain. What drunk guy hasn't wandered around a frozen lake with a broom and some stones? Am I right, or am I right? Uh, guys? Um....yeah...me, neither.

For the life of me, I can't think of a less compelling activity. And yet, every time it's on TV, I can't stop watching it.

[PGHhockey]

I agree...I've always wanted to try curling just to see if it's any fun. Only 1 rink around here offers it, and it's over 50 miles from me.

[quick_dry]

I've got one of those personalities where if I start watching an unexciting sport, but it has the suspense of everything resting on a single play/cople of plays then I'll stick around to watch a bit of it.

I've watched curling on TV (shameful admission) - it was the final of a world championship, and down to the wire.
Lawn bowls - same deal as above, they're the same sport almost, one just uses ice.
Baseball - boring as bat**** until it gets down to the cliche "all tied up at the bottom of the ninth" situation.
Cricket - see above. The only way this became watchable was with the advent of 20 - 20 limited overs cricket.

Poker (WSOP) can be interesting for the suspense, the maths and the interplay between players.

Fishing/Darts - can't get into it
Rugby Union - see above
NASCAR - if its an oval track race then I'll wait for the crash on the highlight reel, its not even technically interesting (reason why I like Le Mans, WRC and F1)

how has 'stacking plastic cups as fast as you can' not gotten a mention as 'how the hell did you sell THAT to a TV exec?!' yet?

[zipyaj]

[QUOTE=FLATBALL39;46098]I don't know if there is a way to send a print-ready, post-scripted Portable Document Format (PDF) attachment, but I DO have exactly and ALL of the latest (most recent) numbers you're craving! [QUOTE]

if you have these numbers as a PDF, may I also get a copy by email. I have a presentation scheduled and these could be VERY beneficial.

THANKS!
Jay

INTERSCHOLASTIC HOCKEY FEDERATION (IHF)
Jay Piz, Director, Media Relations
[email protected]

[matattack05]

Well 90% of all statistics can be made to say anything they want, 50% of the time.

[quick_dry]

Jay, I don't know that that guy check this forum anymore (or he just posts under a different name with less formatting) :)

[zipyaj]

Quick-Dry,
Thanks for the 411!

I went back through the thread and believe he may be a.k.a. ACCCT2.. I'll keep trying!