Schedule nonsense? You judge.

[Berrttt 16]

I noticed that in some divisions certain teams play the same opponent way too many times. For example, in the Southeast division the S.C. Pirates play the Savannah Stingers 12 times and Raleigh Assault 12 times.

Now, that leaves only 8 games left for other opponents. Only 4 against other divisional opponents in Richmond and York (both home games). Another 2 against the perennial powerhouse Lunatics and 2 more with winless Winchester.

Savannah and Winchester have not won a game yet, and York doesn't seem to be fairing well overall either.

Now that leaves the Pirates with only 16 competetive games on their schedule for the entire season.

I understand that S.C., Raleigh and Savannah are expansion teams, but we all know who is better before the inaugural drop.

Any thoughts from owners/vets out there?
Is this happenning anywhere else?

[MBurke]

I'm not really in the know on that one, but I think it was probably agreed upon for geographic regions.

[Superstar9]

I do agree with you on the schedule being against the same teams waaay too often, God knows, I'm tired of seeing the Pirates....

Now I don't quite get your comment about "I understand that S.C., Raleigh and Savannah are expansion teams, but we all know who is better before the inaugural drop"....

what does that mean? I figured I'd give you the chance to explain that one before I have anything to say about it, what's that mean?

[RichmondRobin89]

I don't necessarily know if I would call the scheduling of the southeast as nonsense, though I would say it was more or less based on the practicality of travel and the necessity to have an even number of divisions and teams in a division. With the new expansion teams in the southeast, there needed to be teams to compromise with the fact they were going to have to travel a little further than normal. As far as the South Carolina Pirates, Raleigh, and Savannah playing so much, I think was to take a little bit of the burden off of Us (Richmond Robins) and the York Typhoon having to travel farther too often. I definitely can see your outlook on it though, but I think it's something we will have to deal with until more expansion franchises pop up in the south east.

[GoRangrHky]

In the end, does it really matter?? Only one team comes out of the SE there for playoffs, so it's not like there's going to be an issue later on or something where a team makes it because of an inflated record. Other than playing a relatively boring regular season from a player/ fan standpoint, it essentially shouldn't make a difference.

[GROWL]

I agree and disagree.

First at this point it is far to say that Savannah is by far the bottom team in the division. Since four teams will make the playoffs, it is fiar to say that it doesn't matter. I'm sure who ever finishes fourth (presumably the Typhoon) will care when they have to travel to SC. But looking at that situation, the Typhoon arn't a better team then SC and really dont have an arguement. The team that legitamitely has a beef in the division is the Robins. They do not have the benefit of playing the Stingers as many times as SC and Raleigh, but to be fair they have played Winchester a few times (who can be compared to Savannah, at least by record.)

So while their seems to be some discrepencies, all does seem to be a bit fair after all. Although the Assault and Pirates must be tired of the same two opponents. I have circled April 12th on my calendar... I'm looking forward to seeing how SC handles the Lunatics, should be a true test to the talent in the Southeast division. Not to mention a possible conference playoff match up.

[Phantom305]

They do not have the benefit of playing the Stingers as many times as SC and Raleigh


FYI, the Assault has only played the Stingers once this season, while the Pirates have played them SIX times this season.

Hell, since we are in the subject we didn't even play the Stingers this past weekend, when we should have.

[growl89]

They didnt play the games?

[Phantom305]

Nope, we did not play them this weekend.

[Wingman]

Now that leaves the Pirates with only 16 competetive games on their schedule for the entire season.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there...

SC played York and won by a 3-goal margin in both games, (in inline hockey that would be considered a close game) to say that any games against them would not even be competitive is incorrect in my opinion.

Winchester has also given teams a run for their money, on the 16th and 17th Winchester lost to Pittsburgh and Scottdale by only 2 goals. If SC played Pittsburgh it wouldn't be a surprise if they lost by 2 goals, Pittsburgh is a very competitive and talented team. So if both Winchester and SC lost by the same margin, when they play each other you would expect a close game right?

To my understanding, Savannah isn't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. According to the PIHA website they played Raleigh in a 3-4 game. Why has this not been mentioned in all the Savannah-bashing??? If Savannah can play their top-game again they might beat SC.

I can agree the SC does have an easier schedule than most, but they'll still have to work hard to beat these teams because they are very competitive.

[Phantom305]

For the people that haven't already noticed. The Stingers do not exist, at least not in the state of georgia. (from what I heard, hence the reason why we didn't play them this past weekend)

[Wingman]

For the people that haven't already noticed. The Stingers do not exist, at least not in the state of georgia. (from what I heard, hence the reason why we didn't play them this past weekend)
Didn't they just move their franchise to Tallahassee?

[Phelan96]

SC played York and won by a 3-goal margin in both games, (in inline hockey that would be considered a close game) to say that any games against them would not even be competitive is incorrect in my opinion.

A 3-Goal margin in a men's league is a close game (maybe) but not in PIHA....although that lead can be given up....good, disciplined teams will take that lead and sit on it.

[Phantom305]

The answer to your question Mr. Wingman is no.....I think, if that were the case then we should've played them this weekend and we didn't.

Also in regards to the Pirates, I think you mentioned that SC might have one of the easiest schedule in the league. Let me give you some facts:

These numbers are as of today

The Pirates have played or are going to play 3 teams with losing records, and 3 teams with winning records.

Out of those three losing teams 2 of them haven't even won a game yet.

The teams that they have played or will play have a combined win/loss record of
W L T OTL
40-57-0-1

Almost half of those wins are from one team: The Lunatics.

So I would say they have the easiest schedule out of all the teams in PIHA based on statistics.

[Superstar9]

"To my understanding, Savannah isn't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. According to the PIHA website they played Raleigh in a 3-4 game. Why has this not been mentioned in all the Savannah-bashing??? If Savannah can play their top-game again they might beat SC."

FYI- Savannah did play their best hockey of the season in that 4-3 loss to us but, we also played quite a few minor leaguers in that game AND we held back. I do not beleive in running up the score, especially in front of our home fans. Also, they score 2 of their 3 goals in the last minute of play. My fault I guess for showing some class and sportsmanship by not demolishing a team of pretty good guys.

[tommy]

In Pro hockey, teams should not hold back just because they "feel bad for a team" or because "they have a good group of guys." If the teams gonna play PIHA Pro and put themselves on the same floor as the other Pro teams, they should be ready to play against the best hockey that the other team(s) have to offer. That sounds like just a bad excuse for not beating up a team that you should have.

[Phantom305]

So let me get this straight...People complain that the Stingers and Generals get blown out of games and people are padding there stats, and thats the whole thing is wrong and they (Stingers) should be removed from play, but when a team decides it would be in the best interest of both teams to not obliterate the other team, then it is also a problem, and that excuses are being made. Some of you guys really need to check yourselves.

[RichmondRobin89]

In my opinion you should never hold back your team from scoring, I don't care if the score is 12 to 1 in the first period. You're there to play hockey, and I know that any other team when given the chance would run up the score on us. Might sound insensitive, but this is hockey be a man about it.

[FrankFrank]

While I agree with you guys about scoring because you can... you also have to think of it from a spectator's perspective. I have been on the winning side of blow-outs... Typhoon's early years with Yoder and the Yings. The scores would be big before the first half was over against most teams. While it was great for 3rd liners to get some playing time, it was terrible for the fans. There wasn't any suspense, there wasn't a mystery of "How are we going to do today", I've actually heard from a number of past/present spectators of the Typhoon that those games were actually boring to watch because it was over before it ever began.
I'm not knocking those of you saying you shouldn't hold back, but you also have to think about it from a salesman-ship perspective. Think about the NHL games that you remember the most... do you remember the great OT finishes and 1 goal games... or do you remember the 10-1 blow-outs.

Just my 2cents.

F~F

[Phantom305]

Exactly what FrankFrank said

[Superstar9]

Thanks Frank!

[joisyan]

on another note, if you were to hold back on a team that's constantly getting blown out...(raises hand) then they're not going to learn anything. for example; we may have been getting blown out by some horrible scores but it's a learning process. we've got guys who've played house league at best that are coming into a league where these kids and men have been playing juniors and tournaments since they could walk. but the scores get closer, i.e. this past weekend, and everyone learns the play styles the more you play a team throughout the season. not only are our scores getting closer, but we were leading at the halftime of two of the 4 games this past weekend. one of the other two we were tied at the half. previously we were going down by 3 or 4 goals in the first few minutes. but i wouldnt compare us to savannah, they've got personnel problems, we've got adjustment problems. but both can easily be fixed; ours is improving. unfortunately for savannah they cant pay guys to come out, hopefully moving will draw quality players out of the woodwork for them

[quick_dry]

generally I'm notone to have my team hold back if the chance comes to run up the score - you never know when that goal difference could come in handy at finals time.

But you can run the score up in a boring way or an interesting way - one that delivers value to your team, and anybody watching. I've seen teams just do the one out everybody rushes and scores each chance they get, or ones that suppress the selfish urge and work some sweet plays while still scoring heaps. I know which ones are more enjoyable to watch and play.

[Berrttt 16]

Ok, thanks for the input. Point-counterpoint, I guess by saying that the schedule was nonsense was going a bit too far. It just seems unfair to some of the other teams in the division, mainly Raleigh that they have to play the same team (who happens to be really good) 12 times. The Pirates are a very good team, probably worthy of the top spot in the division (tough call between them, Raleigh and Richmond) but I remember last year when each team played each divisonal game 2 at home and 2 on the road.

To chalk it up to "it's an expansion division so schedules are going to be messed up" and everyone needs to realize this is not, in my opinion, the goal for the league. I also have seen a relatively watering down of the talent pool in the league. I go to some pro games and they are very tough to watch sometimes. Some players have a tough time keeping up with the pace and probably shouldn't be on the team but are there because they are bodies to give the 2 or 3 good players a rest.

For example, some teams like Maryland, Cincinnati, Winchester etc... have a lot of donkies but an organization like the Lunatics have 3 full lines of all star caliber players.

Should the league keep this expansion going? If so, Should the comish make sure that the new teams can actually play quality hockey before agreeing entrance?

Again, open to comments.

[Superstar9]

Excellent post Berrttt 16.....that is exactly what is going on. The league isn't responsible and their goal is to make every division competitive but with expansion, it takes time. It does kinda suck for Raleigh because the pirates are in fact very good. Whether the can beat big teams up north is still in question but everyone will have that answer soon enough. The biggest thing people do need to understand, there are teams in the southeast that can play. Most of the players on the Pirates and Assault are northerners from Philly, NY, and Canada. While the Pirates did get some easy wins in their 6 games vs. the Stingers, they have had to fight to the end to take points from us as we have come to a 5-5 deadlock so far. Take away the 12 points the Pirates got by beating Savannah 6 times, and the division is a pretty competitive and tight race. The Southeast isn't as weak as it may seem. Just be patient people, it'll get better.

[RichardGraham]

Hey Berrttt 16,

You may have come up with a good idea -- the Donkey Division. I'd be a charter member. It would be sort of like "America's Funniest Home Videos," but on a rink. ;)

[Mlrhnorthfan]

I think that for next year, any new expansion teams should play minors only for the first season.

if they tank its not as 'front page' for the league as it would be if a pro team does.

i just dont want this to go the way of MLRH where teams had 6 skaters for games and teams drop out mid season.

im sure this will all be looked at at the owners meetings.

[growl89]

Berttt is right, there are some games that are terrible to watch and even play in for that matter. So what's the problem?

Over-saturated market in my opinion. Way too many teams in a close area. look at philly and nj.

Marple, Feasterville, NE Philly, Aston, Philly, NJ Stampede, NJ Grizzlies.

So are you telling me that there are 84 "pro" caliber players in a 2 hour radius from each other?

This is just one example, but I think in our area, there can be NO more expansion, it would just make for more "donkies" as Berttt put it.

[Zubas Stylist]

I agree with everything mlrhnorthfan said

[GR8SK8r06]

I agree with what everyone but the statement that there should be NO more expansion because I firmly believe there needs to be a So. Cal division next year!

[growl89]

there should be more expansion... So cal would be nice ... more teams in the SE would be nice .. even mich. would be nice. anywhere else would not be good.

[stksave27]

Don't forget the Kansas City area... ever since the Kansas City Scouts left to become the Rockies/Devils there is a midwestern hotbed waiting to be tapped!

[GROWL]

Florida is a must too

[Berrttt 16]

There are already over 40 teams in the league this year. There should be no more expansion period. If a team is created it only should be because another team disbands. We do not need anymore 1 season teams anymore. For example, Pottstown made the playoffs last year and didn't even show up (unfair to the Inferno, a great organization, who were next in the rankings) and then Pottstown disappeared for this year. Now, there has been talk that Savannah will be out at the end of the season.

We need to build good organizations, not good mens league teams who play for a year or two then quit the league. Talent is one thing, commitment is another.

[alex]

I can see arguing for very careful and slow expansion, but how can you say there should be no more expansion period when arguably the 2 biggest roller hockey hotbeds in the country (southern California and Michigan) are still without PIHA...

[TheSnake22]

technically pottstown was banned from the league for not showing up in the playoffs but i doubt they would have been back anyway...

we understand when you say there should be no expansion at all, but it's hard to argue against places like so cal or michigan, even florida...

i think there's room for expansion as long as the new teams can be either immediately competitive, as 80% of new teams have been, or totally dedicated if not yet competitive, like winchester or cincinnati have been...

how we can ensure that i'm not really sure...

but how awesome would it be if we could have it set up like euro football with promotion and relegation... totally unrealistic but that would be sick... :p

[Center_ice]

how cool would it be if the league grew by 10 more teams next year the cost of having team went by another $700 putting the new league fee at $5,200.

$260,00.00

[Berrttt 16]

Well Michigan and Southern Cal was something that should have been thought of before 40+ teams were already in PIHA. And why weren't they applying for entrance. Why don't we just add another 60 teams so that we make an even 100. Then the league fees would be way lower! While we're at it why don't we add some teams in Mexico, and hopefully now Cuba.

I feel the league should take a good look at its mission before allowing new teams to enter. Maybe, not strictly a cost-benefit analysis.

For example, I played with a kid in college and he was probably the worst player I have ever seen. I was cruising the website and found out that he is playing in PIHA. I think during college he actually found out he was better at playing left-handed so he switched mid season.

So here's a recap of this entire thread:
Scheduling conflicts in certain divisions
Less talent in the league as a whole
Less commitment in the league
Boring play for both players and fans
No teams in hotbed areas

HMMM seems like wiser decisions need to be made and thought out. Where can I apply for a job in PIHA?

[Zubas Stylist]

Mlrhnorthfan, what do you think about what people have had to say?

[Center_ice]

More teams equal more money doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out and at the end of the day it's all about the dough yo!

They are playing off of everyones ego here and if you don't beleive then why is there guys on minor teams that are in thirties.

The concept for a league like this is a good one or at least is in some cases, not all, better than playing your local adult hack league.

The egos of some of the players in this league are way bigger than their abilities as a player, don't believe me just go through this message board and check it all out.

Joe Blows
Tempe Storm
GM / Captain / Owner
Equipment Manager / President

[GROWL]

There are already over 40 teams in the league this year. There should be no more expansion period. If a team is created it only should be because another team disbands. We do not need anymore 1 season teams anymore. For example, Pottstown made the playoffs last year and didn't even show up (unfair to the Inferno, a great organization, who were next in the rankings) and then Pottstown disappeared for this year. Now, there has been talk that Savannah will be out at the end of the season.

We need to build good organizations, not good mens league teams who play for a year or two then quit the league. Talent is one thing, commitment is another.

There is no need for a cap on teams, this isnt the nhl, its regional hockey with a national scope. So Cal, Mighigan, Florida, ect all need expansion. I do agree with weeding out the bad organizations. However I think the definition of bad is related to a lot more then the standings. Savannah is bad and doesnt show up, see ya next year! But Winchester is 0-16 but does a fantastic job promoting their games, they show up, and they regularly are competetive. The Fire Ants won 2 games last year and now in their second year are finding even more success, in arguably an even tougher division. Some teams that win regularly are not good organizations and need help.

[HEO]

For example, some teams like Maryland, Cincinnati, Winchester etc... have a lot of donkies but an organization like the Lunatics have 3 full lines of all star caliber players.


Just curious why you are grouping the Knights, who have indeed kept up with every team the have played (including splits with the Bandits and Lunatics), with teams who have zero and one win? Also, define "Donkies". Are you saying that the knights have only a few good guys? Have you seen the Knights even play? There are a lot of good teams in the league and some that are struggling. Perhaps you were being a bit too rough on a team that is still in the playoff hunt.

[Berrttt 16]

Donkey (Don-kee) n. - 1. An average adult league hockey player who misperceives his abilities and talents and often has to make up for it by being a total "jackass" to either the other teams and/or referees often ending in emabarrasment himself and the organization he represents.
2. One who consistently makes bad passes and then cross-checks/slashes/trips/punches any opposing player within a 3 foot radius (any further would actually entail being able to skate).

That donkey just tripped over the goal line.

[RichardGraham]

Berrttt 16,

These kinds of personal attacks on me are simply outrageous! ;)

[rhhof]

Damn and I thought he was talking about Flynn for a second...

Seriously though, this is the best signature by far:

Joe Blows
Tempe Storm
GM / Captain / Owner
Equipment Manager / President
Chief / Cook / Server / Bottle Washer....sounds like when I was running teams

No no no Seriously though, Bill's point of exanding to the Southwest and Cali is perfect...also toward Michigan - Charley's vision was to have 60 pro teams and encompass the best from all over the states...get 4-6 teams for about 2-4 hour radius in a division or what was managable to the division itself and get a champion from each area to travel and play until we were down to the final two somewhere and have a true national champion...I said it awhile ago and good old Ralph "hoagie" Treat from PA can back me up - this version of the sport was going to become BIG before the end of the decade...it has

Im here in good old Las Vegas and we will know about a new location in our area next month...if all goes well I want it here and we will be willing to go anywhere within 5-6 hours, SO Cal, AZ maybe No Cal or CO once each who knows - I already have all the funding I need and I've got 3 former RHI players and 3 former PIHA pro players ready to go for next season!! anyone else want to semi-retire out here...I could use a goalie, BAD?!

E-mail me [email protected]

[Downz39]

Stio, don't get my hopes up. Keep me in the loop fool. I should see you this weekend at Narch, and don't call any penalties on me. Or LOOK OUT. We should try and find Bill "The Self Promoter" Katinsky a PE job out here, then he can relive his Hystk Extremes glory days all over again. The message boards will never be the same.

[alex]

That donkey just tripped over the goal line.

Hahahahaha, classic.

[growl89]

Stio, don't get my hopes up. Keep me in the loop fool. I should see you this weekend at Narch, and don't call any penalties on me. Or LOOK OUT. We should try and find Bill "The Self Promoter" Katinsky a PE job out here, then he can relive his Hystk Extremes glory days all over again. The message boards will never be the same.

hahaha man you find me a PE job .. .im there ... i need to get outta here!

[GROWL]

I already have all the funding I need and I've got 3 former RHI players and 3 former PIHA pro players ready to go for next season!!

Stio are you counting yourself in this tally? Your one game against the Growl in 2004 doesn't qualify you. At least not until you, Tro, and I finally have that three-way race. And let's face it, that is the only way that either of the two of you guys will ever be involved in a three-way!

[growl89]

Stio are you counting yourself in this tally? Your one game against the Growl in 2004 doesn't qualify you. At least not until you, Tro, and I finally have that three-way race. And let's face it, that is the only way that either of the two of you guys will ever be involved in a three-way!

that is great, flynn usually has no sense of humor, but that was pretty good.

[rhhof]

Jeez Flynn I didnt think you had it in you either...I was waiting for Tro to respond with something negative first....Im game whenever for whatever btw so lets get together and do it....wait wait I said that wrong

Bill there are tons of jobs here - From what I heard they are not only helping with living arrangements for out of staters but putting some up - they need help with schools going up year after year...I'd look into it - I hear the pay is not only pretty good but the cost of living is not only less than Jersey but houses are about 50-60% cheaper now