Declining penalty shots?

[RRB21]

We had a situation in the Bombers vs fury game where a fury player got a penalty shot awarded to him and the ref game his team the option to either take the shot or a get a powerplay.

I have been playing hockey for over 20 years and I have never heard of a team being able to decline a penalty shot and take the power play. I was just wondering if anybody else has ever heard of this and if this is an actual P.I.H.A rule?

[GR8SK8r06]

I am almost positive that is not a rule!

[showtime89]

I was offered that in a game once, a championship game no less, with the score tied late. Of course, I took the penalty shot and shot the puck over the net. Oh well, but that was just a USA inline league in 2003.

[MBurke]

We had a situation in the Bombers vs fury game where a fury player got a penalty shot awarded to him and the ref game his team the option to either take the shot or a get a powerplay.

I have been playing hockey for over 20 years and I have never heard of a team being able to decline a penalty shot and take the power play. I was just wondering if anybody else has ever heard of this and if this is an actual P.I.H.A rule?

USA Hockey and USA Hockey InLine have the option to defer (or at least, did two years ago the last time I saw it applied) - I'll have to look up if it's still in there, but not sure about PIHA's application of it.

[KreaseMasta39]

How about getting a pentaly shot for me losing my stick on a poke check from the far right side of the net?? Do you get a penalty shot regardless if your stick is launched? As many years as I have played I have never recieved a penalty shot for losing my stick.. @ least I stuffed the penalty shot
Beam
MD Knights goalie

[Goaltndr48]

were they that uncertain about the players ability to score, or that confident in their powerplay?

[cat14]

Heres another rule I have to know, Its 4 on 4 we take a penalty, the other teams goalie starts to come off and there extra skater comes on, the ref blows the play down and explains that the change was premuture, faceoff at center floor, how is this not to many men, if your saying that theres six people out there?
M-Cat 14

[growl89]

thats a good question cat

[showtime89]

were they that uncertain about the players ability to score, or that confident in their powerplay?

If there is 2 minutes or less in the game, I can see how taking the power play in a tie game or if you have the lead. You give the opposing team less chance to get back into the game. If you are behind, I would say take the PS because it's a scoring chance with out running any time off the clock. Then again, if you have an anemic power play, I guess you would take the PS and vice versa.

[TheSnake22]

the difference is that it's an illegal line change which isn't the same as too many men.

Rule 11 — Change of Players and Injured Players

(a) Players may be changed at any time from the player benches, provided that the player or players leaving the floor are within 5 feet of the bench before substitutions come onto the floor. If, in the course of making a substitution, either player deliberately plays the puck while the retiring player is still on the surface, a Bench Minor penalty for “Too Many Players” shall be assessed. If, in the course of making a substitution, either player is accidentally struck with the puck, the play shall not be stopped and no penalty shall be assessed.

(b) A goalkeeper may be substituted for a player or another goalkeeper at any time during play. The goalkeeper must be within 5 feet of the players’ bench before the substitute may enter the playing surface. For a violation of this rule there shall be no time penalty assessed to the team making the premature substitution, but the ensuing face-off shall be at the center face-off spot or at the point of the stoppage if the offending team gains possession in the defending half of the rink.

This is actually interesting because in one of our games vs. maryland this weekend, i think it was a minor game i was watching, the knights were given a too many men penalty when one of the players changing was accidentally hit with puck. according to this it shouldn't have been a penalty.

As for the penalty shot question i skimmed the rule book and didnt see any mention of being able to have the option to decline a penalty shot.

[hockkid13]

Yeah Cat, in a case where a goalie changes to early, it should be ruled an illegal substitution. I think what happens is most of the refs in our building(sportsplex), during in house games don't know this to be a rule, and call a "too many men" penalty. This may be one of the reasons why you never have seen this call made before.

[RRB21]

I actually talked to the ref that made the call and he eventually found the rule in the USA hockey casebook but it was an ice hockey book. I dont know if it is different for roller hockey.

[MBurke]

were they that uncertain about the players ability to score, or that confident in their powerplay?

Situation was as follows...

About 5 minutes left in the game, leading 6-3. Presumably you can control the puck for the full two minutes while on the power play, leaving you with a 3-goal lead and 3 minutes or so to play.

To add complication, the player taking the penalty shot is an excellent scorer and the team leading 6-3 had already given up two shorthanded goals that game.

[Puckdropper1]

The rule is the same in both ice hockey and inline hockey. A player regardless if its a skater or goalie needs to be within five feet of the bench to make a player change. Now for the case of the goal, it was the proper call but the face off depends on what zone they were in at the time of the call.

Now for the skater, if a player makes a change off the bench and the puck accidently hits him and me made no play on the puck then the play is called dead and you just have a face off. But if the player comes off the bench and plays the puck and the player coming off the floor is not totally off the floor then it's a penalty for too many players on the surface.

[ref'n'roll]

1. There is no option to decline penalty shots in the PIHA Rulebook. The only options are for the Referee or Coach/Team Captain as outlined in Rule 34:

Rule 34(c) In cases where a Penalty Shot has been awarded under Rule 44(b) deliberately displacing the goal post or removing the helmet/face mask during a breakaway and under Rule 68(b) for fouling a player from behind, the Referee shall designate the player who has been fouled as the player to take the Penalty Shot.
In cases where a Penalty Shot has been awarded under Rule 46(c) falling on the puck in the goal crease, Rule 47(c) closing the hand on the puck in the goal crease, Rule 55(b) illegal entry into the game, and Rule 67(a) throwing the stick, the Penalty Shot will be taken by a player selected by the Coach, or in the absence of the Coach, the Captain of the non-offending team. Said player need not be on the floor at the time the foul was committed. The player selected must be a non-penalized, non-injured player and must not be a goalkeeper or substitute goalkeeper. The selection shall be reported to the Referee and cannot be changed.
If by reason of injury the player designated to take a Penalty Shot by the Referee is unable to do so, the shot shall be taken by a player selected by the Coach, or in the absence of the Coach, the Captain of the non-offending team. The player selected must be a non-penalized, non-injured player and must not be a goalkeeper or substitute goalkeeper. The selection shall be reported to the Referee and cannot be changed.

2. An early change for a goalkeeper (more than 5 feet from the bench) is not an illegal substitution, but a "premature" substitution and the faceoff takes place as outlined in Rule 11 as stated by Snake22.

3. Intentionally playing the puck when susbsituting for a player (non-goalkeeper) who is not completely off the floor is a "too many men" bench minor.

4. Play continues for a player inadvertantly struck by the puck during a line change.

Rule 11 — Change of Players and Injured Players


Players may be changed at any time from the player benches, provided that the player or players leaving the floor are within 5 feet of the bench before substitutions come onto the floor.If, in the course of making a substitution, either player deliberately plays the puck while the retiring player is still on the surface, a Bench Minor penalty for "Too Many Players" shall be assessed.
If, in the course of making a substitution, either player is accidentally struck with the puck, the play shall not be stopped and no penalty shall be assessed.

A goalkeeper may be substituted for a player or another goalkeeper at any time during play. The goalkeeper must be within 5 feet of the players’ bench before the substitute may enter the playing surface.For a violation of this rule there shall be no time penalty assessed to the team making the premature substitution, but the ensuing face-off shall be at the center face-off spotor at the point of the stoppage if the offending team gains possession in the defending half of the rink.

Hope this clears things up.

Don Frank, PIHA National Executive Director of Rules and Discipline

[irsh31]

what my distinguished colleague is trying to say is "no" in PIHA you cannot give up a penalty shot for a power play because your team lacks a significant goalscorer. In addition, a goalkeeper being pulled on the fly is never a penalty however a play may be stopped for premature substitution. Faceoff goes to center. Don, couldn't you just say no once in a while instead of printing the entire rule book? Just busting your chops buddy see you in Feasterville.

[irsh31]

Oh I almost forgot to mention ..... You and Billy (Godziilla) have humongous armpads. Don't worry Billy the Stampede love you just the way you are.

[ref'n'roll]

That's the only way I can get anybody to read the rulebook!

[InlineMBA]

As far as I know the rule allowing a team to decline a penalty shot, is in the Olympics.

"The final difference is that a team awarded a penalty shot has the option to decline the penalty shot and take a power play instead."

from: http://hockeyrodent.com/RODENTAL.htm18 2nd paragraph from the bottom of the page, far right column.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

[quick_dry]

surely the Olympics plays straight IIHF rules, which don't have any provision for going on a power play instead of a penalty shot as far as i could see in the rulebook.