Torhs Pro

[GROWL]

THere has been no conversation about this yet, so allow me to throw it out there.

What were everyone's thoughts about this weekend's TORHS Pro event?

I'm particularly interested in discussing the 'FINAL' post game fight. I'm on the fence about my feelings on this subject.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

THere has been no conversation about this yet, so allow me to throw it out there.

What were everyone's thoughts about this weekend's TORHS Pro event?

I'm particularly interested in discussing the 'FINAL' post game fight. I'm on the fence about my feelings on this subject.


Interesting result and altercation to say the least!

[growl89]

for those of us that were eliminated and didnt stay for the final please let me know about what happened!!!!

All in all the round robin could not have been more competative .... all of the games except 1 were one goal games ... i do not know about the playoffs except who won ... so feel free to add to the post


As for our first time in Pro 1 i can say that it was awesome playing against arguably the 3 best pro teams in the country.

[hockkid13]

I don't agree with the way it happened... Don't shake a players hand, then sucker him in the face... But speaking from being a former goalie, if he pulled that move in a close game, I can't get mad... In a blow out, even though it was sick, I would be pissed as well. But I think you have to go right after him or at least one of the players on your team should...

That's just my 2 cents, and I also may not have seen everything that went down.

[typhoon97]

who ended up winning and wat happened after the game i left before the final so i have no clue wat everyones talking about

[GROWL]

Sorry I guess I should have explained.

Up 5-1 I think, Itan Chavira had a breakaway and back-hand michigan'd with about 4-5 minutes to go. Though he tried to take another shift, he was pulled back by another player.

During the post game hand shake, the mudcat goalie suckered him and a mini-brawl followed. I say mini brawl, cause it involved pretty much everyone on the rink and a few people wrestled, maybe a few cheap punches were thrown here and there, but no one ever really squared off.

I'm curious what everyone thinks, because i have been tossing it around myself. Do you think that move was showing the cats up? If so, was suckering him justified? If not, what was a better way to handle it?

[typhoon97]

if it would have been a close game it would be a different story but up that much in a game there really isnt any need for that cuz u kno its just gonna start trouble. if u have the talent to do it great but do it at the right time. i dont think the sucker punch was right either tho. nobody may have got a shot at him on the rink but a punch during the handshake isnt the right way to go about it.

[imasieve30]

Even though I was standing next to you Flynn, I wasn't looking at the handshake line when it happened. I heard directly from one of the players though that a few choice words were exchanged and thats when the shoving happened. I'm not sure about the "alleged" sucker punch. Correct me if you saw the punch.

The score was actually 4-1 when the goal was scored. It was definitely showboat all the way but a very skilled goal (being full speed on a break away).

My opinion (being a goalie as well) is that it wasn't necessary but at the same time, man what a goal. It got a reaction from the crowd that you wouldn't believe. Simply put, it was sick.

That being said, at that level if you wanna get singlehandedly creative and embarrass a very good goalie in a game that was quickly getting out of reach for their team...you better be prepared to take whats coming your way. Pama opted to keep him on the bench for the rest of the game (smart move) and thats why it happened in the handshake line. What exactly happened then, I don't know.

-Joe

[SEMOSniper19]

Is there any video of the goal? id like to see it if possible

[alex]

Itan is a really nice, humble kid so I really doubt there was any intention on his part to humiliate anyone. He probably just wanted to pull of a sick move for the highlight reel. Granted, that doesn't make it right, that's definitely not good sportsmanship to do that in that situation, regardless of how sick it was. But, no matter how unsportsmanlike it was, that doesn't justify suckerpunching someone in the handshake line, if that is what actually happened.

[hockeyrules]

I was there and saw the goal and the punch. The score was 4-1 at the time and there was still about 5 minutes left in the game. The mud cats were applying alot of pressure but not able to score. Eton played hard the whole game and also was on the recieving end of a lot of physical play . He went on the breakaway and pulled out one of the sickest moves I ever seen. It was not a Michigan, He just had the puck glued to his stick and put the puck and the sitck into the upper left corner of the net. I think the kid was just saying theres a new sheriff in town and deserves to get some respect. You had the best foward in the game against the best goalie in the game one on one.
Etons young but not cocky give the kid props. Legget is a good guy but needs to keep his head on straight. It was a bad move that has now made the mudcat the villians of the inline hockey world.
Respect all players. Respect the talent. Respect the game.

[growl89]

For the record before this post, i think Itan is an unreal player and Leggs is about as good a goalie as they come....

The move is a flashy, showboat move, there is nothing to convince to me otherwise... alot of people can do the move, few can do it at top speed in a pro game. With the score being 4-1 with not much time left, the way pama can hold the puck, it makes no sense as to why he would want to do that move for any other reason then to embarrass the Mudcats and Leggs.... Sure maybe he was doing it for that ridiculous highlight tape he has, but that stuff does not belong on the Pro court in a 4-1 game. Amazing player, great skill, i have seen him do super stuff on the rink and also stupid stuff on the rink. I just hope all the kids growing up idolize him for the right plays and not the wrong ones.

As for the sucker punch, that kind of sucks, i think he deserved something from one of the Mudcats, but right after the play, not at the end of the game. I was not there so i do not know who was out there, but knowing Chad Seibel, it's hard to think he was out there and nothing happened.

Itan will be the most talked about pro player for years to come with his flashy style and showboating moves, im sure he is going to take his lumps from the older generation and be idolized by the younger kids. I think he's a great player because of his speed, hustle and desire to win. i could care a less about the moves, t shirts, highlight reels etc.

All in all i think its big black eye at the end of a very competative Torhs Pro weekend.

If it was 1-1 at the time, then there would be nothing bad coming out of peoples mouths IMO. Just bad timing.

Hopefully this sort of thing doesnt happen again. These two teams play each other all the time and i love watching the games without the BS!!

[GROWL]

Glad to hear everyone's opinions. I share all of these opinions with you guys and i'm not sure how i would have reacted if i were on the mudcats, which is why i brought it up. I probably wouldnt have thrown my plaque tho.

[pburghbandits]

I have to disagree with most of you on this situation.

Everyone knows that Itan is flashy. The goal he scored is something that im guessing 90% of the pro players cant do, and it shouldnt bother you. Thats something that pro ice players cant even pull off, especially on a breakaway, in a championship game, at full speed.

Brett is also a good friend of mine, and was a teammate last year, but if he would have done the same while playing for us I would be pissed at him. You guys say it is embarrassing to the goalie, but in reality, he just embarrasses himself when he attacks the kid at the end of the game. And even going after him right after the play would be ridiculous.

How can you get mad at a player for scoring a goal like this? Get real guys. If you could do the move maybe you would have a different perspective. Also, it doesnt matter what the score is. This was a championship game in the Pro division. Even if the score with 4-1, the games are closer than the score makes it out to be. Ive seen Pro games where a team wins 7-1, yet you know that all it is, is a couple of bounces for a team. In fact, at torhs and narch pro in playoffs, you can almost flip a coin to pick the winner.

So, complain if you want, but what Itan did was something cool, and something all the kids watching will remember for years. All Brett did was put a black eye on himself.

On a side note: I dont think the t-shirts and the website and all that stuff is necessary

[stksave27]

Ironicly Flynn you were surrounded by goalies when all this happened.

At 4-1 with about 4-5 minutes left in stop clock game... the goal maybe, maybe had merit as a goal in the game. If he can score that way on a break away to go up 5-1 is wrong to distance the score and seal the win in a "Money" game?

In an ideal world (hockey is far from it) Itan takes the floor again. If you have the guts to pull the move, have the guts to stand back out there. Thats all I would want from a player who scored on me that way. That way, should he be near enough for me to whack with my stick I have the option or at the least a chance to stop the next move. To score that way and then sit creates tension. If he played it out and took his hockey lumps or even danced a Cat player trying to rail him and scored again even better. It was a sick move. But it would have showed something to be back out there. I know Itan tried to go back out, but by the coach pulling him back it says he thought it was a bad play. I would have enjoyed as a fan the chance to see the Mud Cats respond, to see if concentrating on winning the game was more important than retailiation.

As far as the sucker punch in the handshake line... I'd have rather seen Legatt just ignore Itan or sit the hand shake out if he felt that way about. You goto the handshake as a goodwill gesture and if you are going in pissed off (which Leggs had his right to be if he wanted) better to walk away and look the bigger man.

The tossing the of the palque was over the top. Again, if you don't want it or you arent in the frame of mind to accept it, don't go up. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't the best sportsmanship exhibited but I'm sure both players will be back on the top stage again and we'll all look forward to the rematch. Let the better player win.

[GR8SK8r06]

If Itan is going to do stuff like that he needs to be able to back his showboating up and be prepared for what could be coming! Better get in the weight room dude! On the other hand its sick and i hope someone got it on video.

[ptown]

I agree that Itans goal was sick. It was an incredible skilled move by an incredible skilled player. Should he have attempted it in the pro final game? No. In an all star game or shoot out? Sure. I'm sure the next shift Itan gets against the Mudcats, someone like Siebel, or Ron Tracey will certainly attempt to injure Itan by a slash or a big hit. I don't agree with attempting to injure a player, but in this case, I can see why it could happen. Maybe this is the lesson that Itan needs to grow up and become a true "pro".

In regards to the so called brawl after the game. I infact was paying attention and saw the whole ordeal happen. Leggatt did not sucker punch Itan. They shook hands, exchanged words and Leggatt pushed Itan, another Pama player threw a punch and Leggatt and another Mudcat player threw a punch back. No real fights occured, but I don't blame the mudcats for wanting to get at Itan for embarrassing them in a big game like that. I dont think any player actually got hit in the face, just alot of swinging and yelling. It was a great game to watch though, those are two incredibly talented teams and make for exciting hockey.

[MotherPucker21]

as stated many times above, there is no reason for that type of showboating in a situation like that. Things like TORHS should be about playing against the best and respecting the people on your level. In a 4-1 game pulling a move like that is a big slap in the face of your opponent. Itan is a great player, just bad timing/judgement on his part. I will agree that the sucker punch was probably also uncalled for. If something was going to be done, it should have been done right after the goal before he went to the bench.

With that said......anyone have the video? lol

[Troho9]

My only question is when would be the right time to try a move like this? It's the highest level of inline hockey being played in front of some of the biggest crowds, so why not try it. It would look bad for him if he didn't pull it off or if Leggs made the save so this goes both ways.

[Wingman]

If anyone has a video of it please post it!

[GROWL]

In an ideal world (hockey is far from it) Itan takes the floor again. If you have the guts to pull the move, have the guts to stand back out there.

For the record Itan did try to take the floor again and was pulled back by a teammate. I also think I saw him throw a punch or two leggets way.

I want to retract my earlier report. I don't know that legget sucker punched him. It certainly looked that way, but i wasnt on the rink.

[alex]

Nobody condones doing the move but everyone wants to see the video. I'd probably do the move if I were him too. I get lectured about lacking sportsmanship by everyone but those same people will turn around and tell me how sick it was and to get it on video.

[Drexel63]

I guess my biggest problem with all of this has to do with this thread...

Everyone has said, clearly and concisely, that pulling this move was out of line...

But then follows that with a half cocked "the sucker punch was probably uncalled for also"... you can't be serious, that you think pulling a flashy move in a hockey game merits more ill will than sneaking a guy during a sacred act such as the post game handshake...



Here is an interesting follow up question. A MLB Closer is brought in to finish a game, when his team is up by 4 runs, no one on base, and the meat of the other team's lineup on deck... The Closer is capable of throwing an unhittable slider... with a bigger, and more deceptive break than any in the league, but also has a great fastball. Is he a poor sport if he relys on his slider to strike out the side, and doesnt go with the fast pitches to save face for the team that is down in the bottom of the ninth??? Or would you charge the mound?

Just as a disclaimer, I wasn't there, I didn't see the move, but I'm simply reacting to the reactions online here...

[bcottrell]

I think thats awesome he did that move. People need not be so sore about it. I think it would be a slap in the face if he bolted down the rink with a few seconds left and the mudcats had given up but they dont seem like a team that ever gives up so play on. Sounds like a goalie who throws punches might also be the kind of guy who drops his shoulders down in defeat toward the end of the game...thats his bad.

[paddymac]

A 4-1 game with 5 mins left is not out of reach. Half you guys act like they were down 10 goals...in which case it probably would have been inappropriate. 4-1 is not a sure thing. Roller hockey is a "flashy" game and promotes things like this. If you can't deal with it, go back to ice where things like this don't happen.

[NJRH10]

I can understand a goalie feeling disrespected by someone pulling off a move like that on one of the biggest stages in our sport. But I also feel like we shouldn't try too shackle one of our highest caliber goal scorers simply to make sure no one's feeling were hurt. The fact that (from what I hear/read) the move got a huge reaction from the crowd tells me it was the right thing to do. I'm all for sportsmanship and I love the fact that there's a code of respect between hockey players that doesn't seem to happen in the other sports but there's a difference between disrespect and being innovative. To be honest I feel that celebrating after a goal is more disrespectful. Had he pulled the move off and celebrated like it was his first ever goal then I could see feeling the need to teach him respect.
With that said I do feel that if he's going to do a move like that he should be expected to play the rest of the game. And if Pama is going to have a "flashy" player and knows guys at that level are going to take shots at him that they need to find someone to be an enforcer for him.
As for Leggett, it seems that the facts of what really happened aren't as solid as I'd like to see "He suckered him" "He didn't sucker him" etc. It sounds like regardless of how it happened, what happened was a black eye for TORHS and the sport considering most people watching the pro finals are younger players who aspire to reach that level and the guys playing at that level should set the tone for how to act at that level. And not for nothing but it's not like there's 30 pro teams. Pama and Tour will almost definitely meet in one of the next tournaments and things could've been handled then properly.

[growl89]

good post man

[yokes]

Alright ill take a shot at this...I can see Legs being upset and disrespected. I also can see though with the game still in doubt do what you can to score a goal in a time where its needed. Has anyone thought that maybe this kid doesnt just do a fake shot go backhand...maybe its just his second nature with the moves he does?? After all that I probably would of did what Legs did.:p

[jakehckey]

If you don't want a move like that pulled on you then you better defend the entire rink. He was sprung on a breakaway and pulled off the sickest move that I have ever seen live. What good is it if you have the skill but don't entertain others by using it? When there is money on the line the goal differential is never enough.

Great weekend!

[jakehckey]

Just want to remind everyone that this move was pulled at full speed. Never slowed down and wasn't standing still with a cheesey stuff in like a normal michigan. Next time you go to the rink give it a try. "Back hand michigan" at full speed. Let us know how you make out.

[ifyouonlyknew]

After reading everyone's posts I want to say the move was great. To Itan's credit he tried to go back out for his next shift and one of the players on his team pulled him back. I agree with the fact if your going to pull a flashy move off like that then you have to be able to deal with what comes next. I think that it was a smart move by his teammates not to let him back out on the rink becuase it would have been worse than what happened after the game. What if when "teaching" Itan a lesson that he got seriously hurt? How would that look? Is that what people should fear when trying moves? Roller hockey is about fast play, flashy plays unbleievable goals, and great players. Thats how this sport is going to continue to grow, by having the younger generation to want to play Torhs and Narch Pro and thats going to happen when they see plays such as what Itan did. Then again, there is a time and a place for everything, and that may have been out of line but ask anyone in the stands watching that game if they didn't applaude Itan and say to the person next to them that was a great move. I was one of them and I certainly did.

For the person that said that the scuffle after the game gives Torhs a black eye, I have to disagree. I watched every pro game last weekend and they were all great, close games that could have went either teams way. Even the team that went 0-3 and didn't make the playoffs played great and was very entertaining to watch. They were just alittle over matched, and less experienced than the Mudcats, Snipers and Pama. Who gets a black eye for the circumstance is that players involved and we all should not comment on what we "Think" happened or what was seen from the stands until the true story, with what really happened and what was said led up to the altercation.

Overall, the Pro tourney was great, the games were all great and I think that it is a positive result for Torhs, and roller hockey and I can't wait to see Narch and Torhs Pro this summer.

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

I wasn't there, I didn't see the move or the reaction that followed it, but I've read all the responses to this thread.

My question is this: If Denis Savard did 360-degree spinorama and scored against Patrick Roy late in a game, where the outcome might or might not have been in doubt, would that have been wrong?

In that case, you've got a great forward going in against a great goalie, and the forward makes an incredible move to score.

As someone else said, what if Itan had missed? He'd have looked a bit silly. Instead, he had the guts to make the move and, it appears, was fully prepared to deal with the consequences by taking his next shift.

It sounds to me as if the fans got their money's worth, Itan made a brilliant and exciting move, and he pulled it off. I feel for the goaltender, but if we want inline hockey to be successful with the masses, it's these kinds of confrontations that are going to get us on Sports Center -- not punches in the handshake line.

All that said, this is not a slam against the goaltender. If I was in his position, I know I'd be angry, too. However, if you look at the big picture, I'd want to be at this game and see this move, even if the score was 10-1. Do you penalize Michael Jordan for sticking out his tongue while he makes a slam dunk from the free-throw line on his last shot in a 100-90 score game?

[NJRH10]

As for my comment about it being a black eye for TORHS I meant that more in the sense of it's a shame that something like this happened under their banner. I in no way meant to imply that TORHS could have done anything to prevent this from happening. But one question I have is what is the punishment for this altercation? Were there suspensions of any kind? Is anyone not allowed to play at summer nationals because of this? Because while I'd hate to see a watered down squad do to all this, there's a part of me that thinks it would be a shame if no one used this as a way to take a stand. What's preventing this from happening again if there's no consequence? Sorry if this was already mentioned in an earlier post.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

The goal was nasty. There was a second of total silence in the rink from when he picked up the puck on his backhand until it hit the post and dropped in over Leggat.

In regards to the alleged sucker punch, it was hard to see exactly what happened in the handshake line or hear what was said from the stands. but from what i heard from some good sources was that leggat didnt mean in any way to 'punch' itan.

that being said though. itan has to expect some kind of reaction from a move like that. he has been aroudn long enough to know.

[SpiderRat]

Does anyone know if Itan subscribes to IHC? It would be interesting to read his point of view on this topic. As a tender, years ago I might have gotten a bit upset and perhaps have done the same thing Legg's allegedly did, but knowing the skill level in the pro division and in inline hockey in general, I guess you just have to expect some crazy attempts at scoring.

[yokes]

Hey Rich,

I think hotthead Roy would of chased after him ala Hextall after Rob Brown. Theres a vid on Youtube somewhere.



Hi Folks,

I wasn't there, I didn't see the move or the reaction that followed it, but I've read all the responses to this thread.

My question is this: If Denis Savard did 360-degree spinorama and scored against Patrick Roy late in a game, where the outcome might or might not have been in doubt, would that have been wrong?

In that case, you've got a great forward going in against a great goalie, and the forward makes an incredible move to score.

As someone else said, what if Itan had missed? He'd have looked a bit silly. Instead, he had the guts to make the move and, it appears, was fully prepared to deal with the consequences by taking his next shift.

It sounds to me as if the fans got their money's worth, Itan made a brilliant and exciting move, and he pulled it off. I feel for the goaltender, but if we want inline hockey to be successful with the masses, it's these kinds of confrontations that are going to get us on Sports Center -- not punches in the handshake line.

All that said, this is not a slam against the goaltender. If I was in his position, I know I'd be angry, too. However, if you look at the big picture, I'd want to be at this game and see this move, even if the score was 10-1. Do you penalize Michael Jordan for sticking out his tongue while he makes a slam dunk from the free-throw line on his last shot in a 100-90 score game?

[Drexel63]

Do you penalize Michael Jordan for sticking out his tongue while he makes a slam dunk from the free-throw line on his last shot in a 100-90 score game?

And does the guy Jordan posterizes every time he goes up into the jumpman dunk punch him in the face after the game? Nope... just continues to try to stop him...

[ACCCT2]

Just an experienced sportsmanlike opinion --


I have to disagree with most of you on this situation.

Everyone knows that Itan is flashy. The goal he scored is something that im guessing 90% of the pro players cant do, and it shouldnt bother you. Thats something that pro ice players cant even pull off, especially on a breakaway, in a championship game, at full speed.

Brett is also a good friend of mine, and was a teammate last year, but if he would have done the same while playing for us I would be pissed at him. You guys say it is embarrassing to the goalie, but in reality, he just embarrasses himself when he attacks the kid at the end of the game. And even going after him right after the play would be ridiculous.

How can you get mad at a player for scoring a goal like this? Get real guys. If you could do the move maybe you would have a different perspective. Also, it doesnt matter what the score is. This was a championship game in the Pro division. Even if the score with 4-1, the games are closer than the score makes it out to be. Ive seen Pro games where a team wins 7-1, yet you know that all it is, is a couple of bounces for a team. In fact, at torhs and narch pro in playoffs, you can almost flip a coin to pick the winner.

So, complain if you want, but what Itan did was something cool, and something all the kids watching will remember for years. All Brett did was put a black eye on himself.

On a side note: I dont think the t-shirts and the website and all that stuff is necessary

And further --


Hi Folks,

I wasn't there, I didn't see the move or the reaction that followed it, but I've read all the responses to this thread.

My question is this: If Denis Savard did 360-degree spinorama and scored against Patrick Roy late in a game, where the outcome might or might not have been in doubt, would that have been wrong?

In that case, you've got a great forward going in against a great goalie, and the forward makes an incredible move to score.

As someone else said, what if Itan had missed? He'd have looked a bit silly. Instead, he had the guts to make the move and, it appears, was fully prepared to deal with the consequences by taking his next shift.

It sounds to me as if the fans got their money's worth, Itan made a brilliant and exciting move, and he pulled it off. I feel for the goaltender, but if we want inline hockey to be successful with the masses, it's these kinds of confrontations that are going to get us on Sports Center -- not punches in the handshake line.

All that said, this is not a slam against the goaltender. If I was in his position, I know I'd be angry, too. However, if you look at the big picture, I'd want to be at this game and see this move, even if the score was 10-1. Do you penalize Michael Jordan for sticking out his tongue while he makes a slam dunk from the free-throw line on his last shot in a 100-90 score game?

I wholeheartedly agree with virtually everything "pburghbandits" and Richard said in their posts regarding this scenario as it's been generally described, as no player should ever be punished or derided, and certainly not "sucker-punched in a post-game handshake line, for playing (and displaying) his or her best in a competion -- especially in the championship game of a "Pro" event.

From my point of view, if the sport had any 'commissioner-like' authority, I'd have them toss the goalie for at least 20 games (if not the rest of the season), as his totally classless act is absolutely not what the sport needs to showcase about itself to either parents, younger kids or sponsors. In fact, a truly classy, mature and self-secure (about his own talent) goalie would've complimented any player being able to make such a daring move and dazzling goal in such a pressure-cooker of a game at such a critical moment (as 4 -1 with 5 minutes left is a lot of time in roller hockey), in fact, being a fully mature, classy and self-secure goalie he might've even 'tapped' his stick in 'salute' as a way to show some true sportsmanship and (more importantly) re-set himself as a goalie (as only a "bad" goal should really bother a goalie). This is done all the time in the highest levels of the game in the NCAA, Europe and NHL (heck, it's done at the highest levels of virtually any sport). And when you look at it, from the sound of things, with over 5 minutes left and the goalie's team still pressing, the spectacularness of the goal seemed to break the goalie's and his team's spirit and concentration -- just what a "money" player supposed to do in these kind of situations.

Personally, I think the fact that so many are actually taking the position that such talent and play (and its spectacular game results) shouldn't have even been attempted speaks volumes of what is (in my mind, anyway) incredibly and terribly wrong with the mindset of far too many in the sports of ice and 'inline' hockey: observe and celebrate and play to the lowest levels of (real or perceived) on-ice/court demeanor, play and sportsmanship -- THIS kind of mindset alone is more than enough and mostly what keeps advertisers, sponsors and media away from the sport in droves. Since 1995, the post-NY Rangers Stanley Cup peak year for both sports, both ice and 'inline' hockey have seen a self-inflicted wound and incredible decline of actual player participation in each sport, whereas a growing participation rate certainly (by now) would've (should've? could've?) equalled increased sponsorship, advertising and media coverage, as well as even possibly a truly paid-to-play "pro" league scenario for the sport. Ice hockey participation has gone from 3.3 million to 2.4 million "regular" (once a week) participants and 'inline' has gone from 4.2 million to (WOW!?!) 1.2 million "regular" participants in the same time -- definitely NOT what anyone would or could or should even remotely construe as a successful mangement and/or presentation of either the sport, its sportsmanship, its "regular" participants or its image, wouldn't you say...!?!

No, I'm clearly with the "shooter" on this one.

[oldschool1]

IMO, its a sick move.. However all this can be overted if the goalie has quick hands and mind as to when he or (any player) makes that move, poke check his feet and knock him on his a$$. I dont know to many players that can score while falling off balance... well maybe a few.

But being a goalie, if a player tried it and scored.. props to him. I dont really think I would go after him to fight him, but I certaily would have tried to knock him on his A$$ mid move or immediately after for that matter. Any goalie who is in this situation and is losing certainly doesnt have the mindset for rational thought and cant be blamed for trying to rationalize the fact that he just got embarrased and needs to do something to rebuild his pride. However, in the same regard much can be said of the move, as this has been clearly displayed here in this post. What is unexceptable is a fight over a goal and a game. Regardless of the emotion, it is only a game.

Heck what do I know, I am just a dumb goalie.

[InlineMBA]

I have to wonder if there's more to it than just a goalie's "frustration" for being scored on liked that? Could it be "pent up frustration" from the Mudcats losing in the finals, yet again, to Pama? I think you have to enter Pama vs Mudcats history into the equation.

Like many, I've been a long-time Mudcats fan. As each day passes, everyone gets one day older. The Mudcats are no exception. It was refreshing to see Sully and Keating playing for the Mudcats.

I saw the PRO team list for the NARCh West Coast Winternationals. I have one question, are the Tour Mudcats - CA, the same Mudcats team we saw at TORHS Winter Cup? If so, it will be interesting to see if there's any carryover from the TORHS Winter Cup championship game.

Steve Inge - ROXBURY 8

ps - IMO: props to Itan for pulling the move, and escaping with his life.

[imasieve30]

Sigh.

All these opinions and half the people weren't even there to see the game...

Its fine if we are debating the scenario.

Not really if we are taking this case specifically.

I don't agree with either side. Itan had a very skilled move but is a young flashy kid and hockey is still hockey. If you wanna show someone up like that, be prepared if they take offense to it. I don't see the NHL guys doing it even though they have more then enough talent. Call it "code" or whatever you want, side with it or don't, its just not the way it is done.

That being said, neither is unsportsmanlike conduct. ESPECIALLY in the handshake line. Regardless of what actually happened, I'm sure I don't have to elaborate.

Just out of curiosity ACCCT2, do you actually play the sport (I can't remember if you stated this in other posts), or are you a fan? Will we ever get a upbeat, entertaining post from you that doesn't involve numbers or your opinion on how to influence the "business" of hockey?

Anyway...this is hockey people. Not basketball. I take pride in the fact that the really skilled hockey players excel at every aspect of the game, not just the scoring part. Again, not a knock on Itan's skill, just that some people think that in order to have hockey be an exciting "mass media drawing" sport, we need to have 3 point lines, ramps behind the nets and gravity defying goals scored every chance we can.

-Joe

[Drexel63]

I'm entering dangerous ground here, but didn't Crosby double-bounce a puck over a defenseman and avoid the check in this year's heritage game?

Is he showing up that defenseman, or just being creative with a rolling puck? He could have pushed the puck to the corner, or a teammate wide in the zone, quite easily.. he chose to drive the net..

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Well regardless, kudos to Itan and Leggat for injecting some great interest again into the TORHS pro division!
maybe there will be a bigger crowd now the next time Pama and the mudcats play and thats only good for our sport.

[alex]

I'm entering dangerous ground here, but didn't Crosby double-bounce a puck over a defenseman and avoid the check in this year's heritage game?

Is he showing up that defenseman, or just being creative with a rolling puck? He could have pushed the puck to the corner, or a teammate wide in the zone, quite easily.. he chose to drive the net..

Yeah, that was pretty sick, and he almost makes the one-handed cross pass afterwards too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxWLErduBo&feature=related

[silverman56]

Sigh.

All these opinions and half the people weren't even there to see the game...

Its fine if we are debating the scenario.

Not really if we are taking this case specifically.

I don't agree with either side. Itan had a very skilled move but is a young flashy kid and hockey is still hockey. If you wanna show someone up like that, be prepared if they take offense to it. I don't see the NHL guys doing it even though they have more then enough talent. Call it "code" or whatever you want, side with it or don't, its just not the way it is done.

That being said, neither is unsportsmanlike conduct. ESPECIALLY in the handshake line. Regardless of what actually happened, I'm sure I don't have to elaborate.

Just out of curiosity ACCCT2, do you actually play the sport (I can't remember if you stated this in other posts), or are you a fan? Will we ever get a upbeat, entertaining post from you that doesn't involve numbers or your opinion on how to influence the "business" of hockey?

Anyway...this is hockey people. Not basketball. I take pride in the fact that the really skilled hockey players excel at every aspect of the game, not just the scoring part. Again, not a knock on Itan's skill, just that some people think that in order to have hockey be an exciting "mass media drawing" sport, we need to have 3 point lines, ramps behind the nets and gravity defying goals scored every chance we can.

-Joe


So your saying that hockey is the only sport that should hold back the talents of its players, so that others players dont get upset. There was nothing wrong with what Itan did, how is it wrong. Because the BS code of hockey doesnt approve of it. This doesnt happen in other sports, You dont see CBs take cheapshots at Randy Moss for making a spectacular catch when his team is winning by 4TDs. Or When Lebron does a 360 dunk on a breakaway, nobody cheapshots him. My thoughts are if you cant handle someone pulling off a move like that then either quit or stop the play next time.

[showtime89]

Yeah, that was pretty sick, and he almost makes the one-handed cross pass afterwards too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxWLErduBo&feature=related


Crosby's puck was already up on end before he flipped it up, probably due to the ice conditions. And he was avoiding a player that could lay him on his ass at that moment.

Completely different situation. I've got no love for Crosby, but I've also got no problem with what he did.

Still waiting for video though on this Torhs goal.

[imasieve30]

So your saying that hockey is the only sport that should hold back the talents of its players, so that others players dont get upset. There was nothing wrong with what Itan did, how is it wrong. Because the BS code of hockey doesnt approve of it. This doesnt happen in other sports, You dont see CBs take cheapshots at Randy Moss for making a spectacular catch when his team is winning by 4TDs. Or When Lebron does a 360 dunk on a breakaway, nobody cheapshots him. My thoughts are if you cant handle someone pulling off a move like that then either quit or stop the play next time.

I don't recall saying that. I also don't recall saying that Itan was wrong.

There are examples of talent shown at every level of hockey every game. Behind the back passes, goals batted in out of the air, end to end rushes, toe drags, creative plays like what Crosby did in the heritage game that Drexel63 pointed out. I'm all for creativity. I'm all for talent. I'm not for showboating for showboatings sake. I'll never argue that the moves aren't talented. But unnecessary? Absolutely.

Lets say Itan pulls that move once a game. We all know the chances of doing it successfully each and every time are minimal. Goalies will start to look for it, ect. It becomes a matter of doing it to show off. He could easily score a breakaway goal with any number of other standard moves.

Let me ask you this, if he scores it, goes and (tries) to pull the puck out of the net, unclips a sharpie from his skate and signs the puck and throws it in the stands, is that too far? After all he is talented. And by ACCCT2's standards it will fill the stands and get us ESPN coverage.

Of course I'm exaggerating. I have no problem telling you that when I saw that goal scored, I thought it was incredible. Now every kid in the stands is going to dedicate their entire practice time into duplicating it. Will that make them better hockey players? Doubtful.

Besides, who said that type of skill should be banned? Not I. If you can do it, go for it. Just don't be surprised if you get a little more attention from the other team then you planned afterwards.

-Joe

[stksave27]

No one noticed the quotes around "PRO" from ACCT2?

No one noticed he asked for a 20 game suspension for Leggs?

No one noticed he said there should be a Roller Hockey Commisioner present?

I noticed and would like to nominate ACCT2 for Commisioner of Roller Hockey. He would then be at all roller hockey events to save the sport.

Anyone else second the nomination?

[ACCCT2]

I TOTALLY agree with this point --


So your saying that hockey is the only sport that should hold back the talents of its players, so that others players dont get upset. There was nothing wrong with what Itan did, how is it wrong. Because the BS code of hockey doesnt approve of it. This doesnt happen in other sports, You dont see CBs take cheapshots at Randy Moss for making a spectacular catch when his team is winning by 4TDs. Or When Lebron does a 360 dunk on a breakaway, nobody cheapshots him. My thoughts are if you cant handle someone pulling off a move like that then either quit or stop the play next time.

As for this post --


Sigh.

All these opinions and half the people weren't even there to see the game...

Its fine if we are debating the scenario.

Not really if we are taking this case specifically.

I don't agree with either side. Itan had a very skilled move but is a young flashy kid and hockey is still hockey. If you wanna show someone up like that, be prepared if they take offense to it. I don't see the NHL guys doing it even though they have more then enough talent. Call it "code" or whatever you want, side with it or don't, its just not the way it is done.

That being said, neither is unsportsmanlike conduct. ESPECIALLY in the handshake line. Regardless of what actually happened, I'm sure I don't have to elaborate.

Just out of curiosity ACCCT2, do you actually play the sport (I can't remember if you stated this in other posts), or are you a fan? Will we ever get a upbeat, entertaining post from you that doesn't involve numbers or your opinion on how to influence the "business" of hockey?

Anyway...this is hockey people. Not basketball. I take pride in the fact that the really skilled hockey players excel at every aspect of the game, not just the scoring part. Again, not a knock on Itan's skill, just that some people think that in order to have hockey be an exciting "mass media drawing" sport, we need to have 3 point lines, ramps behind the nets and gravity defying goals scored every chance we can.

-Joe

First-off, YES, I play both ice and 'inline' hockey -- ice hockey in over 23 countries against national, 1st & 2nd Division ("semi-pro") & "Elite" teams and 'inline' probably 5-6 times a week in the spring, summer & fall in NYC's Central Park (or wherever else there might be a "Ghetto-Game" available).

Secondly, Crosby's attempt (in between the "bad" ice repair periods) ultimately failed and went nowhere, so his showboating, instead of doing a more conventional and safe play and advancing his team's efforts at that particular time, (selfishly?) cost his team on that particular rush (and most coaches and top-notch players will tell you every rush is important in the game, especially when it's an odd-man, like that one was). That Itan was able to confidently execute such a spectacular goal and seems almost uncannily 'able' to repeatedly execute these kind of daring moves and dazzling shots should be encouraged and celebrated, not jealously or ignorantly knocked as "showboating", as from everything I've heard about him, he seems to be a very humble and sportsmanlike "team" player and person -- a "Jordan-like" talent that all in the game should be highlighting, not "sucker-punching" or chastizing.

And finally, that hockey's so-called "code" supposedly frowns upon this kind of "highlight-reel" talent and excellence speaks so succinctly as to 'why' hockey is relegated to the "boonies" of major media coverage, even during the Stanley Cup Finals (GEEZ, an overtime "Finals" game was cut short so we all could endure the network "banter-shill-show" that preceded a horse race for God's sake!). You want this game to grow, you better get away from what's absolutely killing its image and marketability, and this neanderthal "code" of unsportsmanlike conduct and retribution is probably Culprit #1.

As for the scenario 'supposed' in this post --


Let me ask you this, if he scores it, goes and (tries) to pull the puck out of the net, unclips a sharpie from his skate and signs the puck and throws it in the stands, is that too far? After all he is talented. And by ACCCT2's standards it will fill the stands and get us ESPN coverage.

I'd say that might be "too far", but if he can actually get away with it, what's wrong with a little fun player/fan interaction and positive "showmanship", eh...!?!

Also ("stksave27"), what I said was, "...From my point of view, if the sport had any 'commissioner-like' authority, I'd have them toss the goalie for at least 20 games (if not the rest of the season)..." -- key words here: "if", as in IF the sport had any such "commissioner". And while I DO believe that given the right support people, resources and 'carte blanche' I could indeed make significant headway in "saving" the sport, I'm certainly NOT in ANY way interested in it, especially with the ignorant, insipid and immature stupidity, sniping and "turf" issues that any such "commissioner" would inevitably (and obviously) have to deal with on a daily basis in our sport...

[growl89]

First off the to NBA comparison... please do not kill our sport by comparing it to that Sideshow they call the NBA. If we should compare sports, shouldn't it be ice hockey that we compare it to? Not a circus act.

So let's compare it to ice hockey. i would say that a minimum of 60% of NHL players can do that move that is being talked about. Ever see it pulled off in a game? or even shootout? There are reasons for this. The unwritten rules, respect for the game, and that fact that these athletes are role models.

You know what move impresses me more? taking a pass of the skate at full speed and kicking it to your blade. That is a hockey skill that is usefull in a situation. Picking up the puck is easy to do, at the level most of us are at, i'm sure most of the readers on here can pick up the puck correct? BUT as annoying as Joey D. is :D he is right, the next time these kids go to a practice they are going to spend way too much time practicing this move instead of learning how to cross over or skate properly.

Being an avid hockey fan, when i am at the national tournaments i take in a lot of games at all levels. If you go and watch the warm ups of youth teams you will see kids trying to pick up the puck in warms trying to emulate that same move under discussion, instead of just warming up the goalie like is supposed to be going on.

How many times after the Michigan goal was scored did we see players trying it at the youth levels, hitting goalies in the face, with sticks with no pucks on it. It was almost funny to watch. Let's teach the future pro players how to play the game correctly so they understand that this is not an everygame situation.

The point: kids look up to the pro players, not really me cause im not good, but the real pro players, Yoder, Yingling, Itan, Beilstein, Thompson, Laurie, Leggs etc... they want to be like these players. Then as role models should we (actually they) provide the correct skills for them to want to try in games?

Again, Itan is sick, i enjoy other parts of his game besides the stick handling because he has it all.... He sold a fake shot on Joey D. and slipped it 5-hole against us this weekend and i can honestly say i enjoyed watching that goal.

I do NOT think players should hold back talents, but i think there should be a code of conduct like in ice hockey. If not for us for the young players coming up.

[growl89]

ACCT.... 20 games? for a punch?

[imasieve30]

He sold a fake shot on Joey D. and slipped it 5-hole against us this weekend and i can honestly say i enjoyed watching that goal.


Thank god I caught this before anyone else did. Bill, we all know its not that hard to score on me 5-hole. There, now you other clowns can't say it first. :p

ACCCT2, whoever you are. Please feel free to come catch a PIHA game in Wallington (you are from NYC, correct?) next time the Growl are up there (unfortunately not till next season or playoffs) and introduce yourself. I can appreciate your passion for the sport but you certainly don't come off as someone who played. Perhaps I'm being judgmental due to the consistent mentality of your posts and maybe you can be a little more diverse and share some thoughts/ideas in person. Right now you sound more like a spectator. Your prior suggestions about how TORHS works makes it sound like you are out of touch with one of inline hockeys biggest venues, national tournaments.

I stick by my posts. I have a traditional way of thinking.

[ACCCT2]

Absolutey -- 20 games, if not the season, as "a punch" is NOT in any way an acceptable part of a handshake line, let alone the game. Show me any rule book in any form of hockey that allows and doesn't punish fighting -- there is NONE 'cuz fighting is a penalty in virtually any sport, not just hockey, and anyone cowardly enough to "sucker-punch" another player in what should be a display of our sport's positive sportsmanship traditions -- as the handshake line is -- doesn't deserve the chance to show his stupidity, immaturity and ignorance and possibly hurt someone yet again.

As for the comment regarding "correct skills", while I agree that "correct skills" start with fundamentals, there's absolutely no reason why this can't result in the "FUN-damentals" that Itan's "correct skills" have obviously and enjoyably evolved to. His kind of DAZZLINGLY "correct skills" obviously require that his "basics" be sound and grounded in fundamental "feels" for virtually every aspect of his game, as only a fundamentallly sound and grounded player could ever make such daring moves and dazzling shots with the almost unimaginable regularity that Itan apparently does and feel confident in his "execution" that he'll actually 'do' what he intends to.

And "imasieve30", what in the world does "...I can appreciate your passion for the sport but you certainly don't come off as someone who played..." mean, as I certainly know whether I've "played" or not (and I'm definitely not "sleep-shinnying" or "imagining" it!)...!?!

And I myself, stand by virtually every one of my posts as well.

[imasieve30]

Do you suppose it could stem from the fact that you refuse to sign your posts, offer information on your experience in the sport (I'm sorry "our" sport), except when cornered and generally only post in threads involving management type scenarios or opinions.

Does it seem that farfetched that when you come on here and post small novels anonymously claiming that you have the experience and knowledge to guide "our" sport that people might call BS seeing as how it is only an internet forum?

If you grew up playing ice hockey first and foremost, how can you claim the only way to grow hockey is to build up the entertainment value for it to become successful, even though it is very successful in the European markets you claim to have played for.

If I'm wrong, by all means enlighten us. Or don't, after all its just the internet.

Also, any reason you dodged the invite to catch a PIHA game and talk hockey afterwards? Just curious.

-Joe

[joisyan]

sorry i have to comment on the likes of this too. i would have to say that a goal of that caliber would be an outstanding and amazing spectacle. hence the crowd reaction correct? so why is this a blemish? how is impressing fans and giving randon people something to talk about, as far as inline hockey is concerned, a bad thing? no offense...but you're all idiots if you think he was in the wrong pulling off that move. our sport is not exactly in the spotlight of national attention. you could probably have a "janet jackson wardrobe malfunction" in one of our games and not even make the local 6 oclock news. so how can you say that scoring an incredible, almost impossible goal is anything other than an amazing play? do you honestly think he was thinking to himself; in the few seconds it took him to get to the goal; that he wants to embarrass the hell out of the goalie? or just that this was his time, his chance to make the fans know his name. or to give them something to come up to him and ask for his autograph or any of the little things that HELP our sport grow. no most of you think that he was out of line by scoring like that, so you must have it in you that fighting in the handshake is the right thing to do. i'm sorry but i'm embarrassed to share the same rink with you when/ if i play against you. the hand shake is a showing of sportsmanship, as was earlier posted. when my team shakes hands we ALL shake hands, i make sure we take our gloves off so that you're actually shaking hands and showing the comraderie that our sport deserves. not acting like a bunch of children. what if the goalie would have snagged the puck and pulled the "patrick roy statue of liberty"? would you have said he was being a pric for holding his glove up? or is he simply sulking in the moment of making a truly remarkable play? so do yourselves a favor and dont say that you understand a punch or shove in a handshake line, or would've straightend him out on the next shift too. because all you're doing is grabbing our sport by the shirt and holding it back. thanks alot

[ACCCT2]

Richard, is there some kind of IHC "Forum Police" and 'sign-in' protocols that only I don't seem to know about?

My posts speak for themselves and I certainly don't need to verify or 'prove' the veracity of anything I've done or experience in the sport or businesss or life for that matter, by somehow running it by anyone else who participates in these forums.

And just so you know -- hockey (any form of it) is definitely not "very successful in the European markets", in fact, quite the contrary -- in most "European markets" hockey is in an almost constant state of struggling to survive. Even in the Russian "Superliga" (the only other league that pays anywhere close to NHL contracts), virtually ALL of the teams technically run at substantial financial deficits and are usually "oligarch" owner-supported as a way of providing the restless Russian populace with the Russian hockey "heritage" that they so demand and would've otherwise lost with the fall of the Soviet Union and its state supported systems. My company and I myself work very closely with the SKA (former "Red Army") program in St. Petersburg, Russia, and the things I've seen and witnessed go down most people just wouldn't believe possible. The "business" that goes on around this "oligarch" support of the Russian hockey program is astounding -- everything from HUGE gas, oil and manufacturing deals; military procurement and contracts; and "insider" political favors and influence are sought and considered in light of the "oligarch's" support of this Russian hockey "heritage" and help in keeping the "restless" Russian locals happy (and 'pacified') with "their teams".

And I definitely didn't "dodge" any "invitation" (or does "feel free" now qualify only as such?) -- if it's not out of my way or in conflict with anything else I might be committed to, I might take in a game or two -- although I don't really know to what end, as I prefer (no matter what you might think) actually playing, as opposed to watching, "our sport";)...

And I TOTALLY agree with what "joisyan" just posted.

[joisyan]

oh and saying that guys in the NHL and other hockey leagues dont pull off extremely complicated and "showboat" moves is assinine. what about Ovechkin's insane move off of his back. do you think the goalie wanted to deck him? hell no, because they are PROFESSIONAL, which is what we're all supposed to be correct? you want a code of conduct? it's in the rulebook. how about we abide by that one before, during, and after games

[imasieve30]

Richard, is there some kind of IHC "Forum Police" and 'sign-in' protocols that only I don't seem to know about?

My posts speak for themselves and I certainly don't need to verify or 'prove' the veracity of anything I've done or experience in the sport or businesss or life for that matter, by somehow running it by anyone else who participates in these forums.

And just so you know -- hockey (any form of it) is definitely not "very successful in the European markets", in fact, quite the contrary -- in most "European markets" hockey is in an almost constant state of struggling to survive. Even in the Russian "Superliga" (the only other league that pays anywhere close to NHL contracts), virtually ALL of the teams technically run at substantial financial deficits and are usually "oligarch" owner-supported as a way of providing the restless Russian populace with the Russian hockey "heritage" that they so demand and would've otherwise lost with the fall of the Soviet Union and its state supported systems. My company and I myself work very closely with the SKA (former "Red Army") program in St. Petersburg, Russia, and the things I've seen and witnessed go down most people just wouldn't believe possible. The "business" that goes on around this "oligarch" support of the Russian hockey program is astounding -- everything from HUGE gas, oil and manufacturing deals; military procurement and contracts; and "insider" political favors and influence are sought and considered in light of the "oligarch's" support of this Russian hockey "heritage" and help in keeping the "restless" Russian locals happy (and 'pacified') with "their teams".

And I definitely didn't "dodge" any "invitation" (or does "feel free" now qualify only as such?) -- if it's not out of my way or in conflict with anything else I might be committed to, I might take in a game or two -- although I don't really know to what end, as I prefer (no matter what you might think) actually playing, as opposed to watching, "our sport";)...

And I TOTALLY agree with what "joisyan" just posted.

My comment about success in europe was regarding popularity as a sport. Not financial viability. That apparently is you and your "companies" territory.

I'm done arguing. Your history is easily traceable in the forums here. I actually have a game I need to get to. The only question Richard should be answering is why your vB code access is still turned on. :p

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

-Joe

[Hystyk28]

Simply stop the puck, or not. Shake hands. Go get a beer.

[ACCCT2]

The absolutely simple-sweet BEST piece of advice yet on this subject --


Simply stop the puck, or not. Shake hands. Go get a beer.

As for "imasieve30's" comments -- It's truly amazing how thinned-skinned these supposedly tough (?:eek:) "code of hockey" guys are, eh...!?!;)

[imasieve30]

As for "imasieve30's" comments -- It's truly amazing how thinned-skinned these supposedly tough (?:eek:) "code of hockey" guys are, eh...!?!;)

Sorry. My "thin skin" is extremely sensitive to hot air...;)

-Joe

[DblJ44]

Allow me to appologize before everyone reads this, but I feel a bit better now.

Acct2,

I think everyone's point here is that in one way or another a good portion of us are familiar with one another. Weather its from playing tournaments, house leagues, or whatever there's a connection even if we not know each other personally.

You however refuse to share any info about your idenity (which is your right) and continue to stir any conflict on the board you can. With that being said you should expect to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially since no one here knows of any past experiences with you.

[ACCCT2]

So, anyone you and your little network of puck-pals don't know "should expect to be taken with a grain of salt", like if you haven't heard of them, they (and their lives, experience and accomplishments) don't exist, eh -- need I say any more about the relative worldliness, intelligence and logic sometimes displayed by some members on this website...!?!

[GaryBettman]

ACCT2, I couldn't agree more. Just remember, you are "the man" when it comes to inline hockey. Don't give in. You can be whoever you want on "the internet". Best of "luck"!

"Bob"

[ACCCT2]

Y'know, it's the little things (and attention to detail) that really give away someone's grasp of the subject matter, facts, or soundness of logic that someone evidences -- for example: my IHC member-name is "ACCCT2" -- what, is one (1) more "C" too much for even you to get right?.

I think ALL of our posts speak for themselves, don't you -- let's leave it at that.

[GR8SK8r06]

I dont know about anyone else, but I saw Itan doing something like this from a mile away. We see on his youtube videos and junior games in Tohrs and Narch his display of skill and ability to embarrass a team like he did. It was only a matter of time before something like this occurred. In my own opinion we need to laugh at something like this and accept it for what it is. Its a kid who is probably the best player, if not 2nd best player in the sport, who will continue to perform moves like this because he can. If you want to take a penalty on him for it, so be it, that is probably why he still wears a cage. If you cant stop him then find someone who can. We all need to stop comparing ice to roller because in my opinion they are two similar yet drastically different sports. I used to be against doing moves like this but when you get as good as he is, then why not. Just enjoy the show and if you dont like what he does thats fine and thats up for each person to determine. Just quit all of the personal attacks on each other that have nothing to do with the discussion.

[GaryBettman]

Y'know, it's the little things (and attention to detail) that really give away someone's grasp of the subject matter, facts, or soundness of logic that someone evidences -- for example: my IHC member-name is "ACCCT2" -- what, is one (1) more "C" too much for even you to get right?.

I think ALL of our posts speak for themselves, don't you -- let's leave it at that.

I have been reading through this wonderful messageboard. It really is fantastic and a credit to the inline hockey community and everything that hockey stands for.

I have taken a special interest in your posts ACC(C)T2. I apologize for the error before. I'm busy keeping tabs on the Rangers vs. Flyers. You know (real "Professional" hockey ;)). I just wanted to say, I believe in what you are saying. You word is good enough for me.

I noticed that it is currently raining in Central Park, so your games are probably cancelled for tonight. I'd like to take this time to extend in offer to you to play on the New York Rangers. Sean Avery is injured and you have a better vocabulary then he does.

I feel this is fair since I am also putting Dave Alverez on the Islanders sans tryout. Your previous post with your hockey history has more then convinced me that the future generations of NHL hockey talent can certainly be plucked from messageboards. After the infusion of messageboard talent is sufficient, the NHL will become 4 on 4 and all showboating is encouraged. Any player that retaliates or even roles their eyes and yells will be subject to a 20 game suspension or ejection from the league. Todd Bertuzzi not withstanding.

Please contact me at [email protected] if you are interested in following up. Thank you.

[alex]

Secondly, Crosby's attempt (in between the "bad" ice repair periods) ultimately failed and went nowhere, so his showboating, instead of doing a more conventional and safe play and advancing his team's efforts at that particular time, (selfishly?) cost his team on that particular rush (and most coaches and top-notch players will tell you every rush is important in the game, especially when it's an odd-man, like that one was)
...

You might want to watch that video once more but that wasn't an odd-man rush. It was a 2-on-3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxWL...eature=related
Secondly, he advanced the puck into the zone, splitting two defensemen, and his cross pass nearly led to a goal. Even though it didn't create a goal, it got the puck low in the zone in Pittsburgh's possession. I'd say that's far from failing or costing his team.

[alex]

You dont see CBs take cheapshots at Randy Moss for making a spectacular catch when his team is winning by 4TDs. Or When Lebron does a 360 dunk on a breakaway, nobody cheapshots him..

I think the difference is a move like the one Itan did is seen more as an attempt to embarrass a particular person (the goalie). The difference is if Moss makes an incredible catch over two defenders it's not like he chose to do that in order to embarrass the cornerbacks. He had to do that to make the catch. Itan didn't have to do that move in order to score.

The analogy of LeBron 360 dunking is a bit closer since it can be seen as more of an attempt to showboat but it doesn't have the same effect because it's not such an affront to one person. Maybe if there's a defender in the lane attempting to take a block and LeBron decides to put a 360 into his dunk when its unnecessary. Even then, the defender will probably got the blocking call and LeBron is the one who looks stupid. On the other hand, a hockey player doing a move like Itan is done on an often helpless goalie who can do nothing but vainly attempt to stop the puck.

I'm not even arguing against Itan doing that, just saying there's a lot more reason for a goalie to be embarrassed by that than a cornerback being embarrassed by Randy Moss making an acrobatic catch or an opponent embarrassed by LeBron picking up a loose ball, going up the court, and putting down a 360 dunk.

[DblJ44]

ACCCT2

Who's opinion would put more faith in a stranger who touts themself as the second coming or someone you are familiar with?

[joisyan]

good point alex

[ACCCT2]

WHAT...!?! --


ACCCT2

Who's opinion would put more faith in a stranger who touts themself as the second coming or someone you are familiar with? --

AGAIN -- where on earth do you get that from...?!?

FYI: There's a VERY BIG WORLD out there that doesn't know who ANY of you "familiar" experts are and couldn't care less about your obviously "near-sighted" take on things -- including a VERY BIG WORLD of 'inline' hockey players who haven't heard a thing about any of the so-called "familiar" (and yet mostly unheard of) "superstars" of "our sport". I myself have seen literally DOZENS of players in Europe that "one-on-one" would SMOKE (as in "TOAST") anyone here stateside, ANYONE. All of your "who's best" threads really amount to ONLY a "who's best" of who ONLY you happen to be "familiar with" and means very little really to those of us who have actually traveled around the world and seen that "BIGGER WORLD" chock-full of MUCH BETTER players than just those that you happen to know.

Fact is, 'inline' roller hockey will NEVER be successful with the small-minded, sophmoric, provincial likes of your "code of hockey" types running it, and quite frankly, that's already MORE a than PROVEN "fact" with what "our sport" presently presents as "the best".
,
This thread was originally about an obviously VERY talented young player's passionately (and probably, patiently) developed ability to regularly play and perform at a MUCH HIGHER level than most of us could ever dream of, and all your "code of hockey" types can answer with is that any player with these confident and absolutely "correct skills" is only doing this to "show up" (I guess) an obviously insecure, easily busted and mentally weak goalie -- GET REAL -- if the goalie was that "breakable", how in the world could any of you call him even remotely "one of the best"...!?! THIS "fragile" yet "familiar" friend is "the best" that "our sport" here in America has to offer...?!? WOW...!?! -- You REALLY need to get out and actually SEE a LOT MORE of this MUCH "BIGGER WORLD" and it's MUCH "BETTER" players, dudes...!!!

You and your "familiar" types have absolutely NOTHING meaningful, extraordinary or new to show or teach me. But, Itan and his type of player -- now that's a TOTALLY different story...

As for "Sid-the-Kid's" failed "showboating" rush, as I recall, the play started out as an odd-man rush (the YouTube video effectively frames-out the other players who were initially in on the rush) and even what's shown indicates a positional 1-on-2 situation that's clearly NO PLACE for "showboating" if you're not really sure of results...

[imasieve30]

This may count as forum poor sportmanship but...

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/618205867.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7437153)

[ACCCT2]

EXAMPLE 1-A if there ever was one, I'd say.;)

[stksave27]

ACCCT2 (All the C's in there?)

You have said many times you do not enjoy watching roller hockey yet you state you have seen the best in Europe and no one in the US can compare to them. Seems contridictory.

What position do you play?

Jim Tryon
Stksave27

[NJRH10]

LoL Wow guys, way to steer a conversation about a valid topic into a messageboard slap fight. Can we start a new thread called "The Pissing Match" where we all do or don't post our names and we can all brag about how much hockey we may have played somewhere and then complain about how and why we not all getting paid money to play?

[Leaferguy]

Simply stop the puck, or not. Shake hands. Go get a beer.
Heh heh, I read that as go get a bear. I'm gonna go have some bears now.

[dan sangiorgio]

i have to agree with accct, at the pro level anything goes when it comes to scoring a goal and if the goalie can't handle it then get out of the net. This so called code of not being a showboat doesn't really apply here imo if he would have rubbed it in there faces after he scored then they should have had someone go right at him whether he went to the bench or not(not during the handshake) but it doesn't seemed liked he rubbed it in at all. this is coming from someone that has always been a mudcat fan and have known/ played with alot of them being that when i first came to neumann CJ was the hockey director at marple and ran our practices for an entire year.

[growl89]

oh and saying that guys in the NHL and other hockey leagues dont pull off extremely complicated and "showboat" moves is assinine. what about Ovechkin's insane move off of his back. do you think the goalie wanted to deck him? hell no, because they are PROFESSIONAL, which is what we're all supposed to be correct? you want a code of conduct? it's in the rulebook. how about we abide by that one before, during, and after games

the difference is that move can not be copied or practiced, it is natural instinct to being hauled down, there is a big difference actually. and im sure the goalie did want to deck him, but didnt because hes professional. The professional part is not acting on instincts. Tell you what, we'll both coach teams on 12 and unders, ill teach them hockey skills, you teach them to pick the puck up, shoot between their legs, michigan the puck, we'll play each other after a few months and see who wins. Which is the point, its not valueable and the kids who looks up to these guys should NOT be practicing moves which will work for them less then 1% of the time.

[GaryBettman]

Hello again roller hockey community. You guys are great.

With out further ado, I'd like to roll out my plans for Professional Inline Hockey based on what I've seen in this thread. My vast experience from running the NHL has led me to this resolution to improve the sport of inline hockey and distance itself from its ice brother (and it doesn't involve those stupid ramps I saw on ESPN a few years ago).

The game starts with a 7 minute warmup. Not 6! 7! (Sorry I love that movie)
Proceeded then by the official handshake line.
After the handshakes are completed the teams will skate to their respective benches where only the top 5 players (as voted on by an official IHC poll every week) on each team commence in a shoot out.
If any of the goaltenders are successful at stopping 3 of the shoot-out attempts in a row, we blindfold them and switch to 2 on 0's.
If the shoot-out goes more then 5 rounds, players are allowed to pick up the puck and throw it in the net (a la American Gladiators - Powerball)

Please share your thoughts. I really see this as bringing hockey to the main stream media, since it is extremely unoriginal now.

Regards,
Gary

[William Bourque]

LoL Wow guys, way to steer a conversation about a valid topic into a messageboard slap fight. Can we start a new thread called "The Pissing Match" where we all do or don't post our names and we can all brag about how much hockey we may have played somewhere and then complain about how and why we not all getting paid money to play?


I think that may be the best post in the entire thread once it broke down.

[William Bourque]

AGAIN -- where on earth do you get that from...?!?

I think it comes from your constant ability to trash other people's work in the inline hockey community as inferior to something that you would be able to create. Additionally, your opinion is always correct and you defend it to the point that you have lost almost all credibility with the people on this board.

But then again, you don't care about what people on this board think about because you are far and away better than them in every aspect of life, if its being a good hockey player, a good businessperson, being educated, being American, etc.

At least that is what your posts have shown us since you have graced us with your presence on the board.

Finally, you have stated that you don't give a crap what anyone think of you and your opinions, so i ask you, Why do you come on here and post?

[joisyan]

i cant say that i would teach a team to do those type of high caliber moves. nor did i say that, i'm simply stating that any player that can, and obviously is good at doing so; should, by all means. for the sake of the sport. it's like making a diving catch in baseball, or an amazing pick in football, or whatever else you see on the highlight reel on sportscenter that grabs people's attention. gives them a reason to want to watch. simply to see that type of thing happen. it's like nascar down here in the south, i cant watch cars take left turns all day, but i'll be damned if i'm not catching that 30 car pile up on sportscenter because it's awesome to see. (granted no one gets hurt). but to say that performing highly skilled moves, or goals is something you dont want kids to see? come on man what sense does that make? guys like ovechkin, or tim connely of the sabres, or pavel datsyuk; all guys who can pull those moves in NHL games, do so on a regular basis because that's what they bring to the table. because it makes the other team have to double, or even triple team them. because that other team knows that they cant just put one guy on him. so there is room for it in any league. and i'd bet that if you had a well disciplined passing and skating team, playing showboats; that the passing team would win. hands down. it's a team sport. but apparently you guys are forgetting that this kid had to have played in countless other games, in that tournament or whenever. so he obviously passes, and skates with the rest of his team. and giving that they won, i'm willing to think that they're a pretty good passing and skating team. so if you can do both? play a technical, well balanced game of hockey, and give the fans something to go crazy about everynow and then. then i hope every team can/will do so

[Stampede#11]

Every thread on this forum seems to turn into an "ACCCT2 Vs the World" thread.

Let's stop worrying about anyone earning a full time pay cheque from inline hockey, as it will never happen in any one on this boards playing life time. If you wanna try and get paid for playing hockey full time ... play ice hockey, end of.

I encourage everyone to do as I have taken an oath to do ... and just stop reading the friggin jibberish. Then soon he will get fed up with not getting a rise out of people who do clearly devote their time and effort to keeping our sport going. Of all the rants on this forum I have never seen anything of substance from some of the things he claimed that would effect us, the global playing community.

That's why I liked the one the other day with Dave Alv.. (forgot how to spell the rest of the name) as it was a break from ACCCT2 and his "New World Order" rants and fancy words to baffle us mere monosolovic (oooooooh big word 1 - 0 to me) knuckle dragging mortals.

[growl89]

but to say that performing highly skilled moves, or goals is something you dont want kids to see? come on man what sense does that make? guys like ovechkin, or tim connely of the sabres, or pavel datsyuk; all guys who can pull those moves in NHL games, do so on a regular basis because that's what they bring to the table.

just out of curiosity, have you ever seen any of those NHL guys pick up the puck and throw it in the net? Because we all know they CAN do it, but they do NOT do it.

[ACCCT2]

ACCCT2 (All the C's in there?)

You have said many times you do not enjoy watching roller hockey yet you state you have seen the best in Europe and no one in the US can compare to them. Seems contridictory.

What position do you play?

Jim Tryon
Stksave27

NO, that's absolutey NOT what I said. GEEZ, what kind of reading disorders do you guys have that so many of you manage to clearly misconstrue, misquote, misinterpret and misunderstand (only?) posts that don't 'second' or agree with your clearly "near-sighted" opinions...???

[ACCCT2]

i have to agree with accct, at the pro level anything goes when it comes to scoring a goal and if the goalie can't handle it then get out of the net. This so called code of not being a showboat doesn't really apply here imo if he would have rubbed it in there faces after he scored then they should have had someone go right at him whether he went to the bench or not(not during the handshake) but it doesn't seemed liked he rubbed it in at all. this is coming from someone that has always been a mudcat fan and have known/ played with alot of them being that when i first came to neumann CJ was the hockey director at marple and ran our practices for an entire year.

WOW...!?! -- Y'know, Dan, you might just lose a LOT of friends here for starting out a post like that ("i have to agree with accct...") on this board...!!!;)

[ACCCT2]

the difference is that move can not be copied or practiced, it is natural instinct to being hauled down, there is a big difference actually. and im sure the goalie did want to deck him, but didnt because hes professional. The professional part is not acting on instincts. Tell you what, we'll both coach teams on 12 and unders, ill teach them hockey skills, you teach them to pick the puck up, shoot between their legs, michigan the puck, we'll play each other after a few months and see who wins. Which is the point, its not valueable and the kids who looks up to these guys should NOT be practicing moves which will work for them less then 1% of the time.

WOW...!?! (it'my "WOW" morning) Someone should be celebrated or given a "code-pass" for an apparently "natural instinct of being hauled down" (y'mean it wasn't Ovie's talent?), but not be treated the same way if they happen to possess the confidence and developed "correct skills" (as Itan apparently does) to regularly undress a forward, defensemen or goaltender (like Itan clearly does and Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky, Stevie "Y", Valeri Kharlemov & Bobby Orr did before him with their ordinary "hockey skills")...???

Further, apparently someone should be celebrated or given a "code-award" for (the apparently "natural instinct" of?) "sucker-punching" Itan's kind "instinctive" excellence and sure-handed execution...!?!:eek: WOW...!?! NO WONDER this sport goes nowhere...!!!

[Phelan96]

A goal is a goal......try to stop it!

Nothing justifies a punch during a hand shake!

[ACCCT2]

A goal is a goal......try to stop it!

Nothing justifies a punch during a hand shake!

WOW...!?! Someone who actually "gets it"...!!!;)

[fulton22]

you dont like it, stop it. on the other hand if i was playing i would have belted him. the fact that this is controversial is so stupid, we should really just be discussing how siccccck that was to pull off, full speed in a Pro game. plus, everyones seen the youtube highlights of Itan..whatd you think on a huge stage he gonna come in on a breakaway and do something ordinary? and the people that argue that he should have had another shift after doing the move probably werent there, there was like 4 minutes left and the game was already over, why have him get run and cause a huge brawl in a Pro final. the goalie should have done something immediately after the goal if he was gonna do something at all.

props to itan though, theres very few times where you can get a collective "ohhhhhhh" from the crowd at a roller hockey game.

[ptown]

A goal is a goal......try to stop it!

Nothing justifies a punch during a hand shake!


You must not have been at the game Phelan96, there was no punches after the game! Alot of shoving and words exchanged, but not one punch.

[shane99]

ok did he get punched or what? it went from a sucker punch to a pushing match which is it?

[JoesInBoston]

Props to Itan for scoring that way. It sounds like it was a sick move. It got the crowd going and that's great. I can't remember the last time I played in front of a crowd that was "going". If this encourages more people to watch our sport, it's for the better of the game. People (outside of family and friends) don't go to games anymore to support their home team and give them pride. They go to be entertained. Itan entertained them. What more could you ask for from a fan perspective?



For the record: I've never seen so many contradicting posts in a thread in my entire e-life......Alot of people are saying that the move was validated because he has the skills so he might as well use em (in support of Itan), then you say that you would have taken a shot at Itan right then for doing it (not in support of Itan). Are you all a bunch of schizophrenic/multiple personality disorder type hockey players?

[teambergenfield]

you dont like it, stop it. on the other hand if i was playing i would have belted him. the fact that this is controversial is so stupid, we should really just be discussing how siccccck that was to pull off, full speed in a Pro game. plus, everyones seen the youtube highlights of Itan..whatd you think on a huge stage he gonna come in on a breakaway and do something ordinary? and the people that argue that he should have had another shift after doing the move probably werent there, there was like 4 minutes left and the game was already over, why have him get run and cause a huge brawl in a Pro final. the goalie should have done something immediately after the goal if he was gonna do something at all.

props to itan though, theres very few times where you can get a collective "ohhhhhhh" from the crowd at a roller hockey game.


What is most impressive about this post is that Robbie Fulton actually commented. I've known that kid for years and that is the most I ever have seen/heard him say/write.

[Phelan96]

You must not have been at the game Phelan96, there was no punches after the game! Alot of shoving and words exchanged, but not one punch.


No I wasn't there but the first post describing the incident (and a few posts after that) said he was suckered.

Regardless NOTHING WARRANTS AN ALTERCATION DURING HANDSHAKES, especially at that pro level.

[33]

i have been quiet about this so far but here is what i have:
he wasn't suckered...it was more of a "have some respect for the game" shove and then things escalated into a shoving match...nothing more, nothing less. great move...wrong time. i think he is an extremely talented player and very gifted which is why he could have probably went in and deked backhand to forehand and had just as much of a chance to score as he did with the move he made. my feeling is that it was disrespectful to the game. i am not condoning what leggs did and i'm not sure he would do it if in that circumstance again. you have to look at the history of this great rivalry and take it from there. emotions run high and this is the biggest stage for our sport.

[5280]

I heard three people died and a dozen were taken to the hospital during the resulting riot.

But, it was from a reliable source.

[MBurke]

I heard three people died and a dozen were taken to the hospital during the resulting riot.

But, it was from a reliable source.

FOX News? :rolleyes:

[imasieve30]

Seeing as how 33 is related to one of the players that participated in that game, I consider his take on what happened fairly reliable.

Now everyone who doesn't play tornament Pro level, doesn't partipate in inline hockey, wasn't there, doesn't know the history of these two teams and can't read can continue to state your opinions on what is right and wrong.

If you wanna dicuss the scenario of what is an appropriate show of talent, fine.
I think we have exhausted this specific instance enough with misinformation, don't you?

-Joe

[alex]

The move just shows the difference between a good player and a great player. A good player knows their good and needs to show it off, a GREAT player knows their good and doesnt show it off!

Interesting take...but I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that Itan is just a good player.

[alex]

If let's say Itan doing a fancy move like this draws someone new into trying the sport out because they're amazed at the players abilities...doesn't that good outweigh the bad of some kids wasting their time practicing these moves and not practicing the fundamentals which will make them better hockey players? Kids are going to be trying out fancy dangles and moves regardless of whether or not Itan does it in a Pro game.

On the other hand, the move could be creating a more positive result by wowing the people in attendance, getting people talking about the move about Itan and about the game. Maybe, some kid spends too much of his team's practice time working on copying Itan's move but at least he's playing the game.

[phil29]

he beat the goalie and scored a goal blah blah blah imo its no different than any other dangl at any level of hockey fyi i had first row seat behind tour mudcats goalie ahh what a nice move..

[Mlrhnorthfan]

Burke, they just did a story on IHCNN news.....

[imasieve30]

On the other hand, the move could be creating a more positive result by wowing the people in attendance, getting people talking about the move about Itan and about the game.

You mean like this thread? :p



That certain player we all know that wears #9 ever seen him pull something like that in a game, nope thats why he is a great player.

I know we're not talking about 'ole "Toe Drag" Troho, right? :D

[fulton22]

very funny tommy, ****in bergenfield.

just to play devil's advocate, when exactly is the "right" time to pull that move? your not gonna try it in a one goal game cause its too risky, yet someone would kill you if you did it when it was a COMPLETE blowout. so i think if there was anytime to do it, it would be in a competitive 4-1 game where god knows a team as good as the Mudcats had a chance of coming back.

[old hockey mom]

I'm the mom of a 13 year old travel player and just happened to come across this exchange. I don't know any of you guys but just wanted to give my thoughts.

I agree with Fulton. If ever there was a time to do it, it is with a 4-1 lead. In this case, the win was clearly in the bag, and it wasn't a blowout, so what the heck? Also, we now have PIHA in Northern California and some of the biggest fans are the kids who know players who are refs, coaches or teachers at clinics at the rink. And, if practicing hot shot moves during pickup and such keeps them skating and eager to go to the rink, how bad can that be? I think quality coaches won't encourage kids to try such moves in games, but it's fun for the kids to play around after a serious practice or game. Last year we went to a tournament in LA and Revision sponsored a skills competition for the coolest shot. The kids had a blast.

I understand that emotions run high, especially in the pro level, but please know that so many of these younger kids look to you higher player as role models and the fighting and such just isn't what we parents want to support.

Thanks!

[ACCCT2]

The move just shows the difference between a good player and a great player. A good player knows their good and needs to show it off, a GREAT player knows their good and doesnt show it off!

Actually, a GREAT player uses as much of his bag of tricks that he feels confident enough will work in any given situation -- and further, a REALLY GREAT player usually never does the merely mundane, predictable, ordinary or "correct" thing, being that he can actually have considerable confidence and faith in his ability to actually execute and 'finish' a move, he'll most surely do what no one ever expected. Early on in his career, even Gretzky was railed against by some who thought his devastatingly different , dazzling and creative "possesion" game "sissified" hockey and that he didn't pay enough of a price for his points. And in the long run, look who proved to be right about the game and remembered as "The Great One" there, eh...!?!

And, as in anything worthwhile in life, a truly GREAT player invariably lives up to that GREAT quote by the GREAT Orson Welles --

"Don't give them what they think they want; give them what they never thought was possible.";)

I say, "KEEP IT UP, ITAN!!!":cool:

[alex]

It's overly idealistic to say no great players ever showboat or show off. That's ideal sure. Make a good example for the kids, etc, etc but the reality is great players, across all sports, showboat and rub it in the face of their opponents whether with intention to embarrass or to just showcase their unique talent. Michael Jordan's tongue-wagging bravado, Randy Moss' post TD dances, Alex Ovechkin's over the top celebrations like he's never scored a goal before are all examples. Competition is about defeating and dominating another individual(s), not everyone is going to maintain humility and sportsmanship the whole time. Doesn't mean they're any less of a great player.

[pburghbandits]

blazintic, i dont mean to be so blunt, but who are you to decide what a great player is, or what a great player does on the rink???

Fans love players like ITAN, who, i guess in your terms, are just GOOD players, instead of GREAT. Who wants to watch basic boring hockey, or any sport?? No one. Why do you think the NHL has changed over the past 3 years.

some of the best athletes in the history of the NFL, NBA, and NHL celebrate after they score. They pull moves that a NORMAL/ AVERAGE player can not do in the midst of a high speed professional contest. Itan pulled off an awfully tough move, in the middle of a championship pro roller hockey game. My hat is off to him, and if legget is mad, then maybe he should have stopped the puck. He's a great goalie, but why make an ass out of himself?

I have personally seen Itan, and a few others, congratulate goalies when they make big saves, so why cant leggat just shake his hand and say good job?? Or any goalie for that matter.

You guys need to drop the ego, if you give up a big goal in a big game, accept it, learn from it, prevent it the next time, DONT make yourself look like a dimwit by starting a shoving or punching match.

[ACCCT2]

blazintic, i dont mean to be so blunt, but who are you to decide what a great player is, or what a great player does on the rink???

Fans love players like ITAN, who, i guess in your terms, are just GOOD players, instead of GREAT. Who wants to watch basic boring hockey, or any sport?? No one. Why do you think the NHL has changed over the past 3 years.

some of the best athletes in the history of the NFL, NBA, and NHL celebrate after they score. They pull moves that a NORMAL/ AVERAGE player can not do in the midst of a high speed professional contest. Itan pulled off an awfully tough move, in the middle of a championship pro roller hockey game. My hat is off to him, and if legget is mad, then maybe he should have stopped the puck. He's a great goalie, but why make an ass out of himself?

I have personally seen Itan, and a few others, congratulate goalies when they make big saves, so why cant leggat just shake his hand and say good job?? Or any goalie for that matter.

You guys need to drop the ego, if you give up a big goal in a big game, accept it, learn from it, prevent it the next time, DONT make yourself look like a dimwit by starting a shoving or punching match.

Couldn't have said any better (even with any amout of my usual "over-punctuation"!:eek:) -- RIGHT ON in virtually EVERYTHING said in this PERFECTLY reasoned post...!!!;)

[Button11]

I love this garbage. I viewed, on a number of occassions, some of you saying to just ignore ACCCT2 and he'll go away. Some have tried to hang this guy/girl. I have sat idle by for a long time just watching what is said on this website and haven't made a comment for a long time.
Aside from an over abundance of quotes, bolds, italics and whatever else, this is one person who actually gets it, and gets it on many levels. I couldn't care less who the guy/girl is, where he/she is from how good he/she is at the sport or anything else. The person flat out gets it!
This is a perfect example of where the sport is going, and how many of us want to just keep it our hockey "cronies" and not allow any newbies to come in and do what they can to advane the sport. These same cronies are those who are bashing Itan (or however you spell it) for what he did which is his contribution to advance the sport. I personally didn't see it, but would love to and heard it was sick.
These same cronies are the same guys that have kept it a "club" sport where you pick your buddies to form a team and only have a sponsorship because of a connection or ONE of the worlds best players on your squad. This is opposed by doing your best to put the BEST team on the floor and doing your part to advance the sport.
I personally blame nobody in particular. However I will point out the sport for a long time has had MANY poor ambassadors and still does. This includes players, refs, coaches and individuals who try to put together leagues or associations, whatever you want to call them.
I could go on and on, and on again on more of the BS that keeps this sport back, and the issues.
Please, understand, there are MANY, and A LOT of good things and intentions that occur as well. This is just my attempt to let out some of the thoughts I have and triggered by these posts. ALL of my BS said, ACCCT2, keep on chattin man! You have a lot to offer the sport and those of us who play it (that is not to say you do not play).

[showtime89]

So I checked out Itan's highlight video on youtube to get an idea of what he was about as well as some other highlight videos. Still not having seen the actual goal that started this discussion, but seeing what Itan can do, I have no problem with him doing that in the game. It wasn't some house league game with little consequences, it was a pro game, so by all means, put the puck in the net however you can within the rules. Also, in the highlight videos, I saw one where the goalie came out and went after the shooter immediately after he scored on a "michigan." If the goalie is going to confront the shooter, this is the time. Not during a handshake. I don't know exactly what or what didn't happen during the handshake, but that's no place to start crap.

As for ACCCCCCCCCCCCT2, whether you played or play or not is irrelevant. If you join a new hockey league and right off you start asserting yourself to show you aren't a pushover, fine, establish yourself however you need to, but this is a online message board. Why do you start crap wherever you go?

[ACCCT2]

As for ACCCCCCCCCCCCT2, whether you played or play or not is irrelevant. If you join a new hockey league and right off you start asserting yourself to show you aren't a pushover, fine, establish yourself however you need to, but this is a online message board. Why do you start crap wherever you go?

AGAIN -- where on earth (or even anywhere in just these forums?) do you get that I "start crap" from? The so-called "crap" comes from others not allowing anyone (especially those they're they're not personally "familiar with") have differing or dissenting opinions, or even simply another point of view. So, I guess you're saying that apparently (in my mind?:eek:) I've "joined" some kind of "forum-hockey league" and I'm just "asserting" my (apparently purposely annoying?) view on things simply to show all of you brainiacs that I'm no intellectual ("forum-hockey"?) "pushover"?:rolleyes: Believe me, they'll be playing pond hockey on the moon with magneto blades before that ever becomes even the remotest worry or concern of mine...!!! :)

[sdcopp]

what I've seen in these 4 pages is the business of hockey vs the tradition of hockey. Is what Itan does with the puck amazing? Absolutely. Was it the right time, wrong time, etc.? Who cares, it happened and that's that. Is it disrespectful and showboating? You bet. Is it highlight reel material? Uh huh.

Any one who has played for a while learns the "hockey code". It wasn't shown here, and Itan got protection after he made the goal. He should've taken the floor again, dealt with the aftermath of his actions, and it should've never devolved into pushing/punching/whatever.

It's the old adage of "put some skin in the game". If you can pull a goal like that, do it, just be prepared to have the other teams looking for you and feeling disrespected. I know it'll come up that Itan tried to come back out on the floor, and his team should've let him. It'd be no different than a LB smashing a QB and then not playing the fourth quarter out of fear of retaliation. Hockey is not a lalala feel good sport. To paraphrase Lombardi:

"Dancing is a contact sport, Hockey is a collision sport"

[joisyan]

hey what's up growl man, been out of town sorry. about the last quote; "just out of curiosity, have you ever seen any of those NHL guys pick up the puck and throw it in the net? Because we all know they CAN do it, but they do NOT do it." the reason you dont see guys doing that in the NHL as much as you may or may not in inline is because it's a full contact sport that will not allow that kind of stuff from happening. however, in a breakaway or a shootout, i'd put my bottom dollar that if somebody could pull that kind of move off that they would. because they are paid professionals. they are paid to entertain the fans. if they dont, the team doesnt get revenue and the players therefor would not be getting paid. and to say that every NHL player can make that move is bs, i guaruntee the elite NHL players could, but how often do they even get a breakaway? they dont cause they're usually shadowed or double teamed. but i still dont see how we're comparing inline to NHL, they're apples and oranges. because it's paid professionals, because it's ice hockey and not inline, because it's full contact and this isnt. in my opinion inline hockey is a hell of alot harder than ice hockey. so i think that anybody that can pull that move off w/ an inline puck is alot more skilled than that of an ice hockey player because of the shape of the puck and how much harder it is to get onto the blade.

[GROWL]

That move is amsolutely easier with an inline puck. The nubs give you the ability to flip up the puck easier. Not to mention that Itan uses an attack pad, which makes it 400% easier to pick the puck up on your stick.

I don't disagree with much anyone has said here. I see all sides, which is why I brought the topic up in the first place.

[imasieve30]

what I've seen in these 4 pages is the business of hockey vs the tradition of hockey.

This is right on.

[Wingman]

That move is amsolutely easier with an inline puck. The nubs give you the ability to flip up the puck easier. Not to mention that Itan uses an attack pad, which makes it 400% easier to pick the puck up on your stick.

I don't disagree with much anyone has said here. I see all sides, which is why I brought the topic up in the first place.I don't want to sound like a "noob", but what is an attack pad?

I know it's a lot easier with a composite blade, but that's something different...?

[GROWL]

http://www.google.com/products?q=attack+pad&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1

[Wingman]

I used to use those, they were around $15ish but they don't last that long.

[cat14]

I usually don'nt comment much I just check in to see how some friends are doing but I have to weigh in. If you played this sport long enough and most of the guys on this site have, there is a respect for the game and the players in it and you don'nt pull that move, allstar game, skills comp, thats fine but I agree with Billy I see kids practice this crap instead of fundamentals, there not going anywhere, and if you think that this game does'nt have a ton of unwriten rules then your clearly wrong.

M.Catalano 14

[ACCCT2]

If you played this sport long enough and most of the guys on this site have, there is a respect for the game and the players in it and you don'nt pull that move, allstar game, skills comp, thats fine but I agree with Billy I see kids practice this crap instead of fundamentals, there not going anywhere, and if you think that this game does'nt have a ton of unwriten rules then your clearly wrong.

M.Catalano 14

First-off, it's pretty apparent that Itan probably had his "fundamentals" down before he started seeing just exactly what he could really do with a stick and puck in certain situations and started developing his clearly advanced "FUN-damentals". As for kids "practicing this crap instead of fundamentals", well, I'd say that this is pretty much their prerogative, as anything that keeps "kids" interested in the game is a good thing.

It's up to a coach to make sure that players know the fundamentals (and when to do what in any game situation) and to monitor whether Itan-like "FUN-damentals" are inappropriately being introduced to a player's game skill-sets before that player is really ready to properly contemplate, execute, appreciate and handle the after-effects once he has either embarassed himself by wasting a scoring or play-making chance on a "hotdog" move he really had no expectations of completing -- or, whether he is ready for the immature, insecure and "offended testosterone" reply from the other player or team should he actually be able (like Itan apparently can) to regularly embarrass with such dazzling skillsets and confince.

But the absolute last thing that should be done is in being the worst possible example of an athlete, exhibiting the worst possible sportsmanship, that the goalie who went after Itan embarrassingly (and assuredly) proved himself to be capable of (I wonder: did the goalie ever apologize for his "code" violations?) -- I'd be much more concerned with "kids" being taught by any coach, at any level, that this kind of despicable "code-crap" behavior is somehow an appropriate response to simply being beat on a play.

I've played ice hockey since I was 3 years old (well over 40 years) and I've seen way too many idiots cause irreparable, irreversible and serious (even near-fatal) injury to someone they felt "dissed" them by simply playing their best in a momentary game situation that lead to someone getting beat (something that happens dozens, if not hundreds of little or big ways in any given game). Most importantly, these "code-crap-upholding" idiots seem to think it's OK to exact this kind of dangerous and unsportmanslike "code-crap-justice" over a game -- a game...!?!

That there are actually still idiots that think that there's really some kind of so-called "unwritten rules" or "code-crap" to the game that demand this or any kind of violent reply to executed excellence tells me one of two things -- either they've never really played at any high or meaningful organized level and don't know that this kind of cowardly, immature conduct would be punished at the scholastic, "Junior" and (hmmm, truly) "Pro" level and is explicity not in any "official" rule book (the ONLY "rules" that matter) of either the 'ice' or 'inline' game -- or -- that they've been foolishly lead to believe by others who don't really have any of the high level experience, skill and/or "props" that their unsportsmanlike "code-crap" clearly reveals (if you've played as long as I have, and even considerably shorter actually, it's almost funny how so many "code-crap-keepers" are usually and almost inevitably recognizable by their clear lack of dependable on-ice/on-court skating or play-making skills).

The goalie got beat by an unbelievably daring and dazzling shot -- GEEZ, sh*t happens, HECK, even BRILLIANT sh*t happens -- a truly GOOD goalie mentally wouldn't have skipped a beat on something as TOTALLY unfathomable or unexpected as that, and at worst would've reacted at least "in the moment". That this goalie was SO busted, SO broken, SO "cheap-shot" cowardly and unsportsmanlike, only tells me that he's absolutely not got the mental 'steel' or 'fiber' or 'shake-it-off' character that truly good goalies would most surely possess. NO league, country, federation or classy team (and certainly no "pro" team) that I know of would ever tolerate his kind of unsportmanslike and "cheap-shot" cowardice, and would've surely suspended him from a designated number of future games by now (and it says a lot about "our sport" that it hasn't been done yet by anyone).

[imasieve30]

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/1300555175.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7483389)

[stksave27]

Joey, I'd join you out there in the park, but the sign doesn't have enough BOLD FACED letters or Italics. Perhaps if it read:

"Dead Horse Point State Park" I'd agree with it wholeheartedly, because in my years (29 and counting) of experience in the sarcasism world any truely "Professional" retort would be over punctuated.

[joisyan]

hey sorry flynn i meant growl89, i think it's bill? not sure. anyways, not trying to spark more arguements than are already on here, but i can see both points as well. i just like to try to remind anyone who keeps it in the back of their mind, that our sport needs all it can get, as far as grabbing people's attention. otherwise i cant argue that i wouldnt have been pissed, had he done that to me, i guess i would've simply handled it a little different than starting a shoving match in a handshake. i just cant agree with that

[growl89]

i dont really think its arguing as much as it is stating our opinions... and that's what the board is for right ... clearly this topic should be relocated to www.ibeatdeadhorses.com

[joisyan]

haha yea true, i just dont like to seem like others...no names, who just love pissing in people's cheerios

[Wingman]

i dont really think its arguing as much as it is stating our opinions... and that's what the board is for right ... clearly this topic should be relocated to www.ibeatdeadhorses.com (http://www.ibeatdeadhorses.com)It says the site's under construction, let me know when it's finished 'cause I know a few choice threads to add to your archives. ;)

[GROWL]

I usually don'nt comment much I just check in to see how some friends are doing but I have to weigh in. If you played this sport long enough and most of the guys on this site have, there is a respect for the game and the players in it and you don'nt pull that move, allstar game, skills comp, thats fine but I agree with Billy I see kids practice this crap instead of fundamentals, there not going anywhere, and if you think that this game does'nt have a ton of unwriten rules then your clearly wrong.

M.Catalano 14

Says the guy who plays most of the game with one hand on his stick... perfect fundamentals right there.:D

[growl89]

Says the guy who plays most of the game with one hand on his stick... perfect fundamentals right there.:D

actually flynn that is how they teach you to play hockey, to only have one hand on your stick unless you have the puck and even then its okay to have one hand on your stick :D see this is the stuff you should be teaching the Growl

[overridex]

Really? No video of this game? How is it possible that no one video'd the pro division final at Torhs :( That just stinks. I'm sure those of us who weren't there would of liked to watch the game, even had this not all happened...

[quick_dry]

^^ definitely