Hockey Haters

[RichardGraham]

Hockey Haters -- do you have them in your town?

Is anyone else as sick and tired as I am of local sportswriters who denigrate ice hockey (don't even get me started about their opinions on inline hockey, if they know it exists), because they are fans of football, basketball or baseball?

The only sportswriters that I'm aware of who slag hockey are fans of the "Big Three" sports, as if it's really courageous to promote football, baseball or basketball in America.

Specifically, I'm ticked at the Los Angeles Times' T.J. Simers -- just the latest of many local sportswriters to bash hockey because they don't "get" the sport.

I don't even remember the specific comment, as it's Simers' "shtick" to be "outrageous" and try to drum up readers for his stupid column, which I only read to see who's bashing him this week. Some people are truly masochists, and I think Simers is one. Who else alienates everyone possible for kicks?

The bottom line for me is that ice hockey is the fastest professional team sport in the world, which takes a subset of skills that must at least be equivalent to matching the difficulty of hitting a curveball in baseball, making a fingertip catch in football, or cashing in on an alley-oop pass in basketball.

OK, I get it, Simers and all your snarky ice-hockey-comment colleagues -- you don't like or understand hockey. But that doesn't make you right, smart or creative. It just makes you knee-jerk idiots.

And you can print that.

[Wingman]

How can someone denigrate hockey, and support baseball? Just doesn't make sense to me...

[Alvare71]

Hey Richard,

Maybe we can send him a toaster with a set of instructions. And you are right they don't get it. We skate up to 20 mph and we collide with two people that is 40 mph, I am doing the math for him.

A saucer pass is one the most beautiful things on the planet.

Football plays are cool, but a hockey great play out right against nature. All you none hockey players think about going ice skating with your girl and we know your woman holds you up. Now imagine a guy that is 6 foot pulling on you while you have to keep your head up so you don't get the crap knocked out of you. and you have the PUCK. I don't talk about a sport I don't play.

[ACCCT2]

Actually, a REAL sport should be one that virtually anyone, from anywhere on the planet, should be able to sit down and watch for the very first time ever and be able to easily figure out what's going on and what the score is -- ala, soccer, ice hockey, swimming, running and racing (of any kind), as well as maybe lacrosse and volleyball. Any convolutedly-ruled-&-scored sport like American football, baseball, basketball, or cricket -- or "judged" sports like figure skating, gymnastics, etc. -- might be indeed competitive and worthy pursuits, but highly suspect in terms of healthy, competitive "sports" (in my mind, anyway)...

1st across the finish line. Highest tallied score at the end of an evenly-rostered & easily-ruled contest. These are the only 2 ways that "competitive sports" should really be based upon, in my opinion...

Imagine yourself coming from the hinterlands of some non-North American-centric country in South America, Africa, Oceana, Asia and even Eastern (or Western) Europe -- and then imagine yourself watching (or playing) each "major" sport without any preconceived ideas about what the object and "rules" and "infractions" and "scored-points" per apparent "scoring" incidents within each game are -- and then imagine which "team sports" would make immediate and logical sense to you: soccer, ice hockey, volleyball and lacrosse would be probably the first that you'd "get it" with, as the action, objectives, 'infraction' and 'scoring' rules are easily and logically understood and played-out without 'interpretive' extras ("zebras" and "judges") being necessary to the basic game being played out...

Now imagine yourself being from say, Borneo or the Amazon River basin, and watching American football, baseball, or to a lesser extent, basketball, and trying to figure out what-in-the-heck the "rules" and "infractions" and "scoring" of these so-called "team sports" are -- you'd be begging for the elegant simplicity, skill and passion of soccer or ice hockey...

I once had a coach who said that a real sport should never have to be explained in terms of "rules" or "scoring" and that more importantly, it should be able to be played by virtually anyone (of normal good health and limb) for a lifetime and leave an athlete healthier and more fit for having played it. Soccer...ice hockey...running...swimming -- no problem whatsoever with these sports qualifying in this logical and healthy regard. But can you really say the same about so-called "mainstream" ("American"!?) "sports" like American football, basketball or baseball (with all of their convoluted rules, 'scoring' explanations, physically 'grinding', 'high-impact' and debilitating 'play' that inevitably results in out-of-shape, beer-bellied-&-arthitic-way-before-their-time players and ex-players)...!?! -- I clearly don't think the abundance of living, breathing evidence says so...

[alex]

'infraction' and 'scoring' rules are easily and logically understood and played-out without 'interpretive' extras ("zebras" and "judges") being necessary to the basic game being played out...

Now imagine yourself being from say, Borneo or the Amazon River basin, and watching American football, baseball, or to a lesser extent, basketball, and trying to figure out what-in-the-heck the "rules" and "infractions" and "scoring" of these so-called "team sports" are -- you'd be begging for the elegant simplicity, skill and passion of soccer or ice hockey...


I don't understand how "interpretive extras" (referees) are not necessary to the basic game of ice hockey being played out. I think most would say referees have huge influence (usually negative) in every hockey game.

And I also don't get how scoring is so complicated in other sports, especially basketball. 3 points if you're behind the line, 2 points if you're not. If you get hit hard you get a few free shots worth 1 point. I'm not saying there isn't complexity there or that I'm not at an advantage having grown up in America and already understanding how all these games are played. But I see plenty of complexity in ice hockey that I'd have a hard time understanding if I were new to the game.

[skooled]

beleive me, not being from your neck of the woods, ALL your major sports take a while to learn, apart from the best one, foxy boxing.... err, i mean hockey...

[MajorTomFoolery]

The only hockey hater that I have ever encountered was a guy I saw in Instant Replay Sports that said that hockey was ghetto. Then he had the audacity to ask me if he wanted to play flag football, no joke.

As regards to accct2's comment about knowledge of the rules, yes, but somehow, the rules of baseball are ingrained into the mind of everybody. I don't know how they got there, they just do. Take me for example. I learned the rules for kickball in thirty seconds at school... and that was a dream... I don't know how I learned the rules for some of this stuff...

And yes, hockey is fairly easy to understand. Hit him, slash him, hook him = two minutes. Although refs are integral to the sport. As long as there are boundaries, there needs to be a way to police them.

[ACCCT2]

I think people are missing the point I was trying to make -- the idea that a real and ideal sport should be universally simple and easy to grasp (and play) simply by seeing it for the very first time -- and baseball clearly doesn't fall under this definition, as the absurd and clearly "Ameri-centric" notion that "the rules of baseball are ingrained into the mind of everybody" indicates a very limited view of how most other people around the world "compete" and recreate. I would hazard a guess (and SGMA* statistics back me up on this) that even most American kids "first-time" choices and impressions of sports they'd like to play don't include baseball)...

My point was that the easy-to-understand essence of soccer (ball+goal) and hockey (skates+stick+puck+goal) and the other first-across-the-finish-line sports of running, swimming, cycling, etc., absolute don't need (at their essence) anything to be "ingrained" like the NOT-easy-to-understand (upon first viewing) "sports" of baseball or American football absolutely do (hmmm, 3 bases+home plate+how many "balls", "foul balls" & "strikes" make an "out" or "walk" or oh yeah (unless it's a 3rd "foul ball", or a "foul ball" on what would've been the 3rd "strike", in which case it's not a "strike" and you can keep trying to "hit" and/or "foul" the friggin' ball...!?), the other ways you can get "on base" besides "hitting safely"+the other ways you can be "called out" on "called strikes" or "put out" even though you yourself haven't "struck out" or swung at a "pitch"+"fielder's choices"+"infield rule"+"force out"+"balks+ground-rule" ("singles", "doubles", "triples"...!?) -- c'mon, just about virtually "everybody" outside of the USA absolutely doesn't have such absurdly complicated "rules" and "game-play" concept/scenarios "ingrained" into their "minds")...

And American football needs (and deserves) even less explanation of its convoluted, conditional "game-play" and "rules" and "interpretations" -- just ask anyone from anywhere outside of the USA or Canada to watch and explain an American football "play-by-play" scenario -- I myself have done it it in dozens of times, in dosens of countries on my ice hockey trips at "Super Bowl" time) and the "explanations/interpretations" from virtually every foreigner who ever tried to "explain" an American football game was usually hilarious...!!!

Let's face it -- a kid can just about be delivered right out of the womb in any country or cultural background and "get it" upon their first-ever exposure to soccer, ice hockey, swimming and running, as far as the essential "basics" are concerned -- this is definitely NOT the case in terms of the "Ameri-centric" sports of American football or baseball, not by a long-shot (whatever that is!)...

*: Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association

[joisyan]

i agree that basketball in specific has gotten rediculous...namely the traveling rule...what happend to that? they run a marathon w/ the ball before they dunk it anymore. baseball...how can that be a sport when the only real part of the game is when they sprint to make a great catch. otherwise it's like sitting at the batting cages. the number of home runs in baseball has drastically gone up since the old days and it's boring as hell. american football is hit or miss, you can either enjoy watching it for big hits (like watching nascar for wrecks) or you can enjoy each little play or gain of yards. each sport has its own characteristics that you need to grasp and enjoy in order to follow or view highly of. for instance i'm biased to hockey, football, soccer, golf, and lacrosse because i've played or do play them, except soccer. i just love watching it, never really played it. but i hate baseball and basketball. with baseball, i cant watch 9 guys standing around for 5 hours, dipping or chewing sunflower seeds. and basketball...just never got into it but it's pretty simple to grasp, you throw the ball in the net. but when it comes to hockey, it's such a quick start and stop game it's not hard to see why people dont understand it. granted they've done away w/ the two line passes; but offsides, icing, pucks out of play; there can be games where there are alot of stoppages, and some games where it just flows. but when you know it and understand it, you can watch it more and more and appreciate the crips passes, the quality saves (maybe not flashy highlight material) and understand why players act the way they do (namely fights). if you play, you know that fights happen to get your team hyped up and into the game. if you're some idiot who writes articles, you could say that hockey players are uneducated goons who cant box, so lace up skates and fight. if you play, you understand why penalties are called, or understand why players get frustrated when it's a bad call. if you dont play, you sit and wonder wtf just happened? or why is this player being such a jerk to the referee? it's all about opinions and what a wonderful topic to get into opinions.

[ACCCT2]

A friend of mine once said that baseball's a "sport" that should be played by "highlight film" -- it'd be over in less than 15 minutes, at least in terms of real action, as most of the game is dead, stand-around time with very little actually happening on the field...

American football's the perfect "sport" for the "armchair" fan (those who "know", but can't ever "do") and directly reflects the smash-mouth, out-of-shape, "redneck" thick-headedness of so many of it so-called fans...

And everything that "joisyan" said about basketball is absolutely true -- the "rules" have been virtually thrown away to make almost everyone look like the "slam-dunk" star that only a few timeless greats actually ever really were or are (that is, IF the so-called "rules" of the game were enforced "by the book") -- heck, even Michael Jordan was given a running-5-steps-to-the-hoop in his "Air-heyday"...

[MajorTomFoolery]

Baseball's friggin' rediculous. It's the slowest game in history, and it's got the most out of shape players ever.
And as for Baseball and American Football having a bunch of rules, I can guess they had to add them as they went. When Football first began, there were no such rules as roughing the kicker, or intentional grounding. And I don't know where the whole extra point thing started. But I guess a lot of these things were added on to combat the issues that sprung up with the game, which is natural for any sport. They probably asked themselves "is it getting too complex"? Overall, I don't think Football is too complex, other than the archaic scoring system, whose birth I cannot begin to speculate on. But all these little rules do have their place.
And while soccer may be simple, I for one have no idea how the rules for tackling goes. Can you only hit the ball, or are you allowed to get him in the front, or what?

[joisyan]

lol i couldnt agree more

[joisyan]

i meant for baseball players (not quite all of them) being in shape. anyways soccer you can tackle so long as you get the ball yes. much like stripping a puck for hockey if you miss the puck it'll more than likely be a penalty. but if you tackle anyone from behind in soccer (i think regardless of getting the ball, not sure though) it's a yellow card.

[MajorTomFoolery]

Oh yeah, another thing. What's with the yellow cards. What do they do? Do you get ejected for a red card or something? I don't want to get off topic, it's just a quick question.

But uhh... hockey haters... never seen too much of them. I mean, it's kind of hard to hate a sport you don't know (then again, kids do that kind of stuff all the time).

[ACCCT2]

I think that once you get past an obviously "Ameri-centric" view or take on "sports", it's really rather easy to see and understand why soccer and ice hockey are indeed the 2 most played sports in the world -- more teams with more players in more leagues in more countries at virtually every level of play (male & female, "pee-wee" to "pro" to "80-years-old-timers") when compared with American football and baseball (which virtually ends for most players at High School, and that's if they ever actually played either sport in the first place) -- and while basketball's recently (only in the last decade or so) gotten a more international fan and participation base, it's not really that far behind American football and baseball in terms of it's players actual 'playing-it' longevities...

[MajorTomFoolery]

Yeah. Football and Basketball is nothing compared to the internationally accepted sports, although I heard that some other countries play baseball a bit. A friend of mine said he used to play on a team, and they went to Japan, and the USA team scored 4 home runs, while the Japanese team scored 40 singles. Ridiculous. We can't even play our own kooky pastime without someone doing better than us.

[ACCCT2]

The 3rd most played "team sport" is rugby (not basketball), followed by volleyball (still not basketball) and then "netball" (and still not basketball) and finally, cricket (yup, still not basketball) -- As for the "Big Three" sports that Richard initially mentioned, well heck, even lacrosse is played in more countries than American football...

And I think we all know where baseball really stands: it's really a "pastime" (you know: almost like a "picnic"!), not really an "action" or truly "athletic" sport (kinda' like fishing with hot dogs & beer -- and if you actually "catch" something it's a bonus!)...

[joisyan]

lol i'd agree that baseball is an American "passtime" haha, anyways, soccer. (sorry it took so long to reply) with two yellow cards comes a red card. so in one game you can get a yellow, and i believe it goes that if you get a 2nd yellow in 2 games it's a red card. other wise i know it's 2 in 1 game. and a red card is an ejection from the game. however; unline hockey, an ejection means you lose a player for the whole game. so you start w/ 11 players (10 and a goalie) and you have to finish the game w/ 10. or if 2 red cards are given you'd be down to 9, etc. so if you get a red card in the 10th minute, it's 80+ minutes down a man. basically a whole game powerplay heh

[joisyan]

but with Majortomfoolery's last post, it kinda helps prove the point that we dont play baseball very well anymore (at least in my opinion) all we can do is take "roids" and hit homeruns instead of playing on base percentage.

[alex]

I just turned on the tv to see the MLS Cup on. Here's a question for the easy-to-understand-soccer sect. How about the timekeeping? What the hell is with stoppage time? The ref just adds a few minutes onto the end of the game as he sees fit? The clock keeps running when the ball goes out of play?

The ref just added 3 minutes of stoppage time to the end of the league's championship game then they ended it 2:57 into stoppage time with the trailing team advancing the ball upfield. Someone please educate me.

[joisyan]

stoppage time is added on (both at the end of the first half, and the end of the game) by the referee's disgression for time lost for penalties or injuries. say some guy gets tripped up or elbowed in the face and he's pretty messed up (or acting as alot of them do) the ref keeps note of how long (roughly) the time wasted is; because the clock doesnt stop for anything in soccer; then at the end of the half/game he adds on however long he feels is necessary. usually just a few minutes. i personaly havent seen more than 5 added on

[MajorTomFoolery]

Personally, I don't want to see basketball go international anyway. I hear dem Swedes are pretty tall...

[RichmondRobin89]

I just recently sent an Email to ESPN in regards to their Color personality on ESPN's First Take, Skip Bayless. As an avid basketball (NBA LOVER) he diminishes hockey on every show that he possibly can anytime that the NHL or hockey is even brought up in a segment. When the Pittsburgh Penguins and Buffalo Sabers recently played in the Outdoor Game, he had the audacity to just laughed at it and stated, "Is this all you got NHL? This is the best you can come up with? You've just made the sport seem more pathetic than it already is!" The only point I'm trying to make with this post is that, you don't see Barry Melrose talking **** about the NBA and how it's not even a team sport anymore. Nevertheless, some people will always have their opinions on what our sport of hockey is like, but as long as we have people out there playing the sport and explaining to people the beauty of the game, there were always be more Hockey Lovers, than Hockey Haters.

[DannyG]

Every sport or human endeavor where players strive to achieve an objective creatively (including dance, cheerleading, and formational performance groups) deserves respect and admiration for it's participants.

To do less is to diminish oneself.

A given sport or activity might not be your favorite. You might not understand it. It still deserves your respect.

[RichardGraham]

Danny,

I'm sorry. I refuse to respect Tiddlywinks and its practitioners. That it is going to be a demonstration sport in the Beijing Olympics really ticks me off.

[quick_dry]

haha, I was going to post up tiddlywinks as an example.. but then.. I'm sure i don't appreciate the training and technical mastery required to be a pro-Tiddler

[ACCCT2]

HEY -- that's "pro-Tiddlywanker";)...!!!

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

i meant for baseball players (not quite all of them) being in shape. anyways soccer you can tackle so long as you get the ball yes. much like stripping a puck for hockey if you miss the puck it'll more than likely be a penalty. but if you tackle anyone from behind in soccer (i think regardless of getting the ball, not sure though) it's a yellow card.

Actually according to the laws of the game if you slide tackle from behind it is an automatic red card if a foul is incurred.

To complete a tackle in soccer your contact must be all ball that is played not the body. The exception to this rule is leaning with the shoulder for positioning. Hand checking that you see at the professional level although technically illegal is ignored by officials all the way down to the 12-year old level in most cases.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

lol i'd agree that baseball is an American "passtime" haha, anyways, soccer. (sorry it took so long to reply) with two yellow cards comes a red card. so in one game you can get a yellow, and i believe it goes that if you get a 2nd yellow in 2 games it's a red card. other wise i know it's 2 in 1 game. and a red card is an ejection from the game. however; unline hockey, an ejection means you lose a player for the whole game. so you start w/ 11 players (10 and a goalie) and you have to finish the game w/ 10. or if 2 red cards are given you'd be down to 9, etc. so if you get a red card in the 10th minute, it's 80+ minutes down a man. basically a whole game powerplay heh

Pretty accurate description on the yellow cards (caution) just it is 2 in 1 game equals a red card (send off).

Some leagues like the premiership count cautions and if you get three over multiple games you are forced to sit your next game out.

[SPORTSPLEXJEFF]

stoppage time is added on (both at the end of the first half, and the end of the game) by the referee's disgression for time lost for penalties or injuries. say some guy gets tripped up or elbowed in the face and he's pretty messed up (or acting as alot of them do) the ref keeps note of how long (roughly) the time wasted is; because the clock doesnt stop for anything in soccer; then at the end of the half/game he adds on however long he feels is necessary. usually just a few minutes. i personaly havent seen more than 5 added on

Also stoppage time is added on for substitutions!

I have seen stoppage time go to 11 minutes in fact it happened in the 2006 world cup in the same match that a referee gave out 3 yellow cards to one player. That referee has also been stripped of his badge and certification for making such a major error on a world-wide stage!

[DannyG]

To attempt to turn this discussion into something positive (although there is a lot of good, creative humor in it already)...

There are nine (9) forms of "football" that are played professionally somehwere in the world. Think you can name them all?

'll even give you one because I want to highlight Australian Rules Football for this discussion.

"Aussie Rules" is the most free-form of the game anywhere, besides being the oldest form of football in the world. You can run the ball in any direction. You can hand pass the ball in any direction (can't throw, but must strike the ball with one hand). You can kick the ball off the ground, referred to as "soccering" the ball. Or, you can punt it, usually on the run as a pass to a teammate. if you catch a punted ball in the air (from a kick longer than 15 meters), you can claim a free kick. four goalposts at the end of the field...Put the ball through to center goals, 6 points. Put the ball through the side goals, 1 point.

Of course, there are side rules, and nuances, but that's the main rules, and the game is a beauty to see. Maybe some of our Aussie friends can settle a bet, here. With a field 200 yeards long by 150 yards wide, I must believe that the game on television, when broadcast by a competent crew, is prefereable to seeing it in person. Except for the excitement of the crowd, how can you see the nuances of play from so far away in the stands?

I am interested from a Australian perspective on that point.

[quick_dry]

the answers on aussie rules will depend on which state the aussie is from - certain states have strong tendencies to one or another code of footie played here. We have four of the nine pro footballs: soccer, aussie rules, rugby league, rugby union.

I'm not a huge fan of Aussie Rules (AFL), its aerial ping pong, and I find lots of the play messy and unstructured a lot of the time. The game is OK from the stands if you're far enough back to be able to take in the whole field of play - much like watching any sport really (I don't enjoy watching hockey from down at the boards either, you can't appreciate the positional play as much)

anyway:
1 soccer
2 rugby league
3 rugby union
4 american football/gridiron/nfl
5 gaelic football (which is older than aussie rules AFAIK)
can't think of any more

[DannyG]

...I don't enjoy watching hockey from down at the boards either, you can't appreciate the positional play as much...

...5 gaelic football

Hey, you got the one that is amlmost unknown to Americans...

I find your note on hockey fascinating...I saw two Kings games one weekend, one from up high and one from 12 rows up...I was amazed at the speed of the game as it presented itself from the lower viewpoint. I couldn't get the same feel from the "upper deck."

[RichardGraham]

Hey Danny,

When did you see those Kings' games? I took my boss (at the time) to a Kings vs. New York Rangers game a long time ago. He was from Belgium, and after the game, he told me that the part he liked best was "when they put the guys in the little jail." :)

[DannyG]

Hey Danny,

When did you see those Kings' games?

That was back in '88...barely before Gretzky came to America...Susan and I were on our honeymoon, we celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary last week.

Following the second game, our care was stolen off of Manchester Boulevard, we didn't get it back til 2 months later (the varying police jurisdictions in greater L.A. couldn't communicate together very well back then)...

That was more story than you wanted, I bet...