MLRH-How big can it go?

[INLINENut]

Any information and questions would be greatly appreciated?

I'm looking forward to a successful season!

[CoachClipboard]

wait a second...Do you want information? (which I dont have) or do you want questions. If you want both, what kind of questions do you want asked if you dont have the information for them? If you want just questions then you already have the information and youre going to share that with us? Or you have information for your own questions? Im confused.

[skooled]

I think it is highly dependant on quality of play, and their marketing.

[Mlrhnorthfan]

It would be nice for them to post SOMETHING on their site....or at least remove that ugly thing they have now and replace with a 'coming soon' thing.....

[Gladiators6]

My guess would be as big as it's always been....

[GR8SK8r06]

I dont see the mlrh doing anything special this year! Especially if they wont ever update thier web site!

[Wingman]

Any information and questions would be greatly appreciated?
Why is there a question mark there?

I haven't been keeping track of what's going on with the MLRH much, last I heard they're:

Having their season in the summer
Having only 8 teams
Paying the playersThat's the last I've heard from it, there might have been some changes since then. But here's my thoughts on it... If they're planning on paying their players it'll be pretty challenging, especially since attendance is usually pretty weak. Having 8 teams wouldn't be too bad as long as there's not too much travel, (and it's good to start small) despite paying the players it's still hard getting them to travel long distances with out getting "full-time" income from it. I don't have any objections to having their season in the summer, though, there are tournaments (NARCh, TORHS, etc...) that could interfere with the schedule. (or at least I've heard in an other MLRH thread)

[skooled]

with the way it will be setup (according to MLRH) they have support from a minor Ice league, not sure which one though. so it will kinda be like the old RHI in a sense. minors players playing roller in their offseason, with a few roller players on the roster also.
They have a broadcasting deal with a web based broadcaster also.

[growl89]

from the way i read it though, you have to way for the web broadcasting.

Roller hockey is having trouble getting people to pay to watch it live, let alone over the internet...

are there really enough fans for this?

[joisyan]

By "way" did you mean "pay"? haha. but if it's true that you do need to pay to watch it online then that seems to be the main income for the players "salaries" and you're right, how many people will pay to watch?

[skooled]

I will, along with PIHA. I'm in Australia

[GROWL]

There will be a fair amount of recorded PIHA action this year. Hopefully we will be able to get as much of it as possible on the web. The Growl plans to incorporate as much video as possible.

[Wingman]

There will be a fair amount of recorded PIHA action this year. Hopefully we will be able to get as much of it as possible on the web. The Growl plans to incorporate as much video as possible.You mean like the youtube thing?

There's already a lot of those, (for the South-Side Snipers at least) but I'd like to see some more full-game videos instead of just the highlights this season.

[growl89]

i did mean pay lol it was late ...

i think all of the games HAVE to be recorded this season, dont they? so there should be alots of footage around.

[skooled]

all the footage in the world won't help if its not broadcast.


*now all things aside, should this be a league that gets support for the growth of the sport? I do agree that PIHA at the moment is the bees knees, cats pyjamas etc. but should we not fuly support a league that is "aiming" to provide "full" pro status for the sport, giving the kids something to aim at?*

[GROWL]

"Full" Pro status would mean that players could quit their day job right?

I love all the debate about the word pro on this forum.

[joisyan]

i believe pro would mean you're not quite being paid enough to quit your day job, but at least being compensated for you ability...and travel. i don't know how far off that assumption is but, oh well. i think if the MLRH guys that are running it just apply more discipline then it'll be just fine. cause the last two years we were in it there was no discipline; teams not showing, playing against house league players; just a disgrace to the league, and that to me distinguishes a difference between "pro" and "amateur". i'm in full support of any and every league. PIHA, MLRH, all the tournaments; TORHS, NARCH, 2HOT4ICE. it's all good. but the underlying difference was the lack of respect the league got from the teams or owners of the teams. no ground rules were made, just a hand shake and "i'll see ya there" all season long. but we'll see how it goes next season. (taking there is one)

[skooled]

GROWL, at the moment, I see it as being payed, period. I don't like seeing the word pro added to anything that will use it. pro means being payed to play, and to train. whether or not that is enough to live off of or not is not the case here.

our top football league in Australia has guys being payed millions a year at the top, and some guys not even making $30,000 a year. I hope this helps show what I mean

[ACCCT2]

"AMEN!!!" on what "pro" or "professional" really and truly and definitively means: "paid-to-play". PERIOD. How much or if it's a "living wage" is not important, just that an owner, GM, sponsor or audience feels the player/team product worthy of "pay" for their playing services is enough to start with for right now...

Using the word "professional" -- attaching it to whatever comes along "wanna-be-pro" league-wise -- actually cheapens the sport's image and lessens the sport's prospects of major advertising, sponsor, media and even fan support of our sport's legitimacy and development, particularly if this is the only way anyone perceives it to be how we ourselves grossly mis-market the game -- especially in some people's however well-intentioned, but totally amateurish and bogus "let's-pretend-they-don't-notice" invocation of the word "pro" or "professional" on leagues and teams and product that are ultimately anything but "pro" or "professional"...

[alex]

It's taking things very literally to say something can't be professional unless players are being compensated.

Honestly, what's more professional, a league with higher level of talent where players don't have a salary but play for prize money;
or a league with undeniably lower talent level in which players get paid some sort of salary?

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

"AMEN!!!" on what "pro" or "professional" really and truly and definitively means: "paid-to-play". PERIOD. How much or if it's a "living wage" is not important, just that an owner, GM, sponsor or audience feels the player/team product worthy of "pay" for their playing services is enough to start with for right now...

Using the word "professional" -- attaching it to whatever comes along "wanna-be-pro" league-wise -- actually cheapens the sport's image and lessens the sport's prospects of major advertising, sponsor, media and even fan support of our sport's legitimacy and development, particularly if this is the only way anyone perceives it to be how we ourselves grossly mis-market the game -- especially in some people's however well-intentioned, but totally amateurish and bogus "let's-pretend-they-don't-notice" invocation of the word "pro" or "professional" on leagues and teams and product that are ultimately anything but "pro" or "professional"...


Hmmmmm, I wonder who you are referring to??? That and you managed to even throw in some more name calling. Brilliant!

[SWAMPDONKEYS29]

It's taking things very literally to say something can't be professional unless players are being compensated.

Honestly, what's more professional, a league with higher level of talent where players don't have a salary but play for prize money;
or a league with undeniably lower talent level in which players get paid some sort of salary?

Alex, he will continue to hide behind the actual definition of the word professional as it is found in a dictionary as a poor and feeble attempt at discrediting a particular elite inline hockey league for a still yet to be determined reason.

You're interpertation of the word professional, albeit not found within the pages of Websters dictionary, seems to be generally accepted and recognized with the exception of this particular person.

[skooled]

^^^By most people actually. I have to agree with ACCCT2 (seeing as I brought it up) a professional league should be a paid league. If a league cannot get together enough funds to play and pay, its not pro. hey even Victoria, Australia has a "PRO" roller hockey league, give me a break!!!

Our top Ice league here, the AIHL has been claimed as the same quality as the Dutch league, SPHL etc. with lots of actual pro players from europe and north america alike coming to play in their home leagues offseason. This league classes itself as an elite amature league, as I see PIHA to throw a league in here should at this point in time. Don't get me wrong, this is the pinnacle of our fine sport right now, but at this point it is just elite amature travelling league.

I love the sport, and have the games best intrests in mind. we need to do something about the amount of tournaments and the amount of "PRO" leagues in both ice and roller.

[GROWL]

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[ACCCT2]

It's not just a Webster's dictionary "definition" of what "pro" or "professional" means -- quite frankly, you can play "let's-pretend" with that all you want and no one will really notice or care -- but it is, like it or not, what any major advertiser, sponsor, media partner or un-tapped potential fan base will think of the way-too-loose and inaccurate "definition" as it's currently being mis-used in our sport...

Hmmm...advertisers, sponsors, media partners, potential fans -- you know: the people and entities that really validate any sport's "BIG-time" ("pro"/"professional") status and really do "take things literally" -- what might these people have to say about what's currently being packaged as "pro" or "professional" in our sport right now -- what would they be "hiding" (their money and support) "behind"...???

Or should the "definition" of "pro" or "professional" (for just our sport) really be: I love the sport and play it every moment I can and I happen to devote some of my own time and money to the game and/or team, so therefore I'm a real "pro" and "professional" inline hockey player and/or organization (hmmm, in which case I myself am a REAL SUPER-DUPER "pro"!) -- ?!?...!?! -- 'cuz this is what's currently being sold to us (on such an emotionally UN-professional, immature and WAY-too-sensitive level, I might add)...!?!

I'm not "name-calling" or trying to "discredit" anyone -- just trying to wake some people up about their "head-in-the-sand" comfort level with where the sport's image really currently stands in the "professional" sports (you know: "paid-to-play") scheme of things...

[GROWL]

You know I have a "real" "problem" with "people" who love to point the "finger" at a "problem", yet offer no alternative.

Takes a big guy to criticize others when you're on the outside looking in. I say put up or shut up. I'll listen and debate with all the MLRH'ers because at least they are giving their product a go. I however refuse to listen to one more qoutationed word from a no one who offers up no alternaties or suggestions.

I believe McDonalds once started out as a one stand hamburger joint and slowly turned into a mega giant. Not that im saying that PIHA will ever be the NHL, but we have a """""PROVEN""""" track record of planned growth.

The only thing pretend are the schemes you've come up with in the past. I vote for the excommunication of this guy from IHC Forums.

[CoachClipboard]

Pro definition? = Paid to play. That seems to be the debate here and what is percieved by pro. Follow along here please, with no intentions to argue with anyone.

On average the Lunatics of PIHA draw about 200 fans or so. Many times more, sometimes less. At $5 a head. $1000 take in at the gate per game you would think, but it is less due to many being season ticket holders. But Lunatic season tickets are sold by the players which recieve 100% of what they sell the season ticket for. The player sells a season ticket for $20 he keeps it all. If he chooses to use that to pay for his league fee, fine, if he keeps it to himself, fine. If he sells the ticket at $100 great, at $5 great. The money for walk ins at the gate goes towards the team entirely. The team has no ownership. Meaning there is no one owner on the team. The actual team owns the team. Money collected by the team goes back to the players, usually on road trips towards discounted travel, such as lower cost bus trips, dinner for the entire team, pro and minor on trips, and put towards each players hotel fees to help lower costs for us all. There are other things that the money provides for the teams players and Lunatic players and those here that know the team well can attest to. The money pads no one owners pocket, but comes back to the player.....hence....payment. Efficient management of any team PIHA or MLRH has the ability to help make the "pro" experience a reality, even if it is only in small doses.

Ask yourselves this instead in this thread to help settle this debate. Do the leagues pay players or is it the teams? The NHL doesnt write a paycheck to players do they? No, teams do it. Yes the money comes from the fans, and corporate sponsorship, same as it does in PIHA and other leagues.

I think the comfort level mentioned is a great thing, and the image of the sport is not really in question. PIHA just grew from 25 teams to 43 teams in one season. Someone is interested. Oh! its the players? well thats a good thing....isnt it? Things dont happen over night. But it's building, slowly and so what? Players are having a great time, the leagues both PIHA and apparently MLRH are growing too. In time big advertising will take notice. This year? not a chance. Next year? nope. But we do need to all grow up a bit and take a more mature approach to how we treat each other in this sport and work together with both leagues respecting each other. Thats the start. With the two leagues now playing during different seasons, there is no reason why the two leagues cant find a way to work with one another, and it opens up the chance for players to play all year, and keeping in better game form condition. Instead of the constant war between the two, try to imagine the possibilities.

Does it concern me that there are two pro leagues? Not at all! It's great! and its great that it is expanded to the European market now too. And from what I gather there is some lessons to be learned for both PIHA and MLRH from the european leagues in regards to advertising. Look at all the sponsorhips on their jerseys over there!

This sport isnt failing. The "pro" image in it isnt faultering. It just needs to mature and find peace within its ranks before it can advance and go beyond.
Parties on both sides in these forums should find a mutual resolve for starts.

[SandeHockey17]

Todd, excellent points as usual.

Does anyone else get nauseated from reading ACCCT's posts?

[ACCCT2]

I completely respect "CoachClipboard's" tractable logic regarding "pro" (but take that convoluted logic to a major advertiser, sponsor, media-outlet or potential fan base and you won't last very from what I know)...

As for "GROWL's" arrogant rant --

Who are you to determine who's "on the outside" or "inside" of the game...??? There's a whole wide world of happenings out there -- leagues, teams, events, etc. -- that you obviously don't know a thing about -- and yet you determine that anyone with a contrary opinion is "on the outside" and that ONLY you are "inside" players. What thin-skinned ignorant arrogance...

I am working "from the inside" -- I actually love and PLAY the game -- as do a LOT of other competant and dedicated non-PIHA people who are working on their own various leagues, organizations, events, etc. -- all of us are just as "inside" as the next. What do you actually think -- that ONLY PIHA people are on "the inside" of the game...??? Or that ONLY PIHA people have the right to say what's right or wrong or "professional" (or not) about the game or determine its future...??? -- GET REAL -- grow up, take your thick, thin-skinned heads out of the sand and get a real ("pro"?) life...

PIHA is definitely NOT the puck-pushing version of McDonald's -- Ray Croc and his company clearly understood imaging, packaging, product and "polish" (and I worked extensively with them over my 25+ years in the ad-biz) -- some people at PIHA obviously don't (and probably won't) ever get this...

I myself am working on my own "alternatives" and obviously need absolutely no approval from anyone not on the advertiser, sponsor, media-outlet or potential fan-base part of the game to be a legitimate player in the sport -- as is the case for anyone else endeavoring to do something meaningful or truly "professional" with the game (yes, even including no more dedicated, devoted and hard-working people at PIHA)...

As for "excommunication" from "all IHC forums" -- I think this thoroughy verifies the "thin-skinned" sensitivities, sensibilities and sense of some people on this board -- if you don't agree with them, well then, you should be silenced, eh...

As for "GROWL's" reference to "schemes" -- anything he supposedly knows about "in the past", it's readily apparent that certain people can't be entrusted with anything...

[GROWL]

I have no problem if you don't agree with me or the PIHA model... I'm just tired of hearing you bash it and you offer no suggestions or help. If you care enough to post your thoughts and you are so experienced, then why don't you step up to the plate and take a swing, instead of your constant heckling from the sidelines. The very least you can do is post your consturctive ideas on what could be done instead of what is being done.

I'm not sure what your last comment was all about, but your ideas on this site from your original posts are what i was talking about. I have no idea what the #$% your talking about otherwise, but only makes me question your character even more. I personally am finished with this topic, as I need to get back to the business of actually running a team, instead of bashing those who do.

IN FULL DISCLOSURE OF WHO I AM,
ANTHONY FLYNN
PHILADELPHIA GROWL

[ACCCT2]

I'm not "bashing" anyone (and never have) who hasn't repeatedly and viciously "bashed" me first and deserved a frankly honest and no-holds-barred retaliation (something I learned in the ad-biz) -- I'm posting my "constructive ideas" in the only way that really matters -- with my financial backers, sponsors, media partners and government officials who (beyond my own hard work and dedication) are greatly responsible for the financial success of the program/project/proposals that I am working on ("inside the game")...

Live and let live...

To each his (or her) own...

That's what I say...

Also (for "SandeHockey17" in particular) -- the truth can sometimes be "nauseating", but really, that's the first step towards realizing something's wrong and getting well, isn't it...

[CoachClipboard]

my logic isnt convoluted. It is tried and proven.

[Drexel63]

FYI...
that convoluted logic has built one of the best fan bases on the east coast of PIHA right now... The Harrisburg Lunatics are in the forefront of presenting a worthy product to market to their fans for real money, as are the Philadelphia Growl. These two teams routinely have the best and biggest crowds to play in front of...


As for "GROWL's" arrogant rant --

How about your arrogant rants? You speak AT people on a constant basis, calling them things such as
thin-skinned and
thick headed without offering anything of the contrary.

As to who is on the inside and who isn't, well I'll offer what I know. "GROWL" is on the inside, of PIHA, as well as other things. He works with and for PIHA on a daily basis. I don't know who you are and don't really care. What I do know is that I haven't seen anything from your communication on this board other than marketing buzzwords and a "you'll never get anywhere" attitude. I'd go back and re-read everything, but it is a little confusing to get through one post at a time, let alone all ~90 of them...

I don't think anyone's ever said it's PIHA or the highway... If they had, they should be corrected, because that should not be anyone's attitude, inside or out.

People don't like your posts because they are (a) hard to read and (b) come across as not much more than naysaying and an overused vocabulary... You seem to have a head on your shoulders. Maybe you should use it to think about how you are being perceived through your posts.

[ACCCT2]

To "CoachClipboard" --

I was talking about the logic that equated a meager 'gate' with "pro", not anything else you mentioned, as generally (in my opinion) I think your reasoning was/is sound...

To "Drexel63" --

WHATEVER regarding the actual skewing of the truth (about who hurls the first and most intolerant invectives), my posts (and the threads leading to/from them) speak for themselves...

And I really don't care how I'm "perceived" in these posts -- we're all entitled to our own opinions, right...

[SandeHockey17]

ACCCT I wasn't talking about your points or discussion, I've learned to stop attempting to read into anything you write. I was more talking about your ridiculous writing habits...it gives me a headache attempting to get through a single paragraph you write.

[MajorTomFoolery]

I think PIHA, and its teams, are taking a good approach to creating a professional atmosphere, and recently, this is getting the players a cut of the profit.
CoachClipboards comment about the Lunatics is a shining example. But what's best about it is that they're not brining in money just to reach pro status, but rather to create a valid fanbase, one not coming to hockey for the fights. Because these tickets are being sold to whoever the player wants, he can sell it directly to those that are interested in roller hockey.
Again, the league does not pay the players, it should be the responsibility of the team to create an atmosphere where money is not a large issue. And quite frankly, the income of the team is the largest decider of what the teams charge the players (some teams charge their players upwards around $700 bucks because their rink is so expensive). If money comes to the team, it effectively comes to the players.

[MajorTomFoolery]

And for that matter, I don't think fans really care if the players get paid or not. To them, pro means the best, whether the dictionary says so or not. Take the NHL strike for example. I wasn't thinking whether the players were underpaid or not. I wanted them to quit their complaining and play some hockey.
As for the MLRH, it is worth noting that the league is under new ownership, if I recall correctly. I feel that the MLRH has to stop focusing on their public image and work a way for these guys to play good hockey (which means showing up to the games). Hockey already has an image, and changing that image to fit a demographic other than a hockey fan will, in my best guess, fail.
Then there's the checking in the MLRH. Don't get me wrong, checking in hockey can add to the game, but there were teams picking up football players that could hardly skate, just for them to hit someone. That's not hockey...
So I guess the answer to the question lies in what the MLRH does next...

[skooled]

CoachClipboard, you are the only person who has come in here and put forward a legitimate post in favour of PIHA without trying to discredit anyone, and for that I thank you.

I still stand by my posts, but agree with what you are saying. I do however feel that the boom of teams for the league could pose a problem. when does it thin out the quality too much?

Once again I will state that I do and will support both leagues as best I can from Australia, But I believe in my opinions being heard, unlike others.

[MajorTomFoolery]

convoluted \kan-ve-lu-ted\ adj 1: folded in curved or tortuous windings.

I didn't know what he meant, so I had to look up the meaning...

I'm not going to argue here, and I'm not going to render undue praise to PIHA, but they do have a strong fan base and consistent growth. And if they can do that without big sponsors, then fine by me.

[ACCCT2]

convoluted /kan-ve-lut-id/ adj FORMAL. complicated and difficult to understand: convoluted legal language

Shall we go through every dictionary and "definition"...??? --

pro /pro/ n 1. INFORMAL: PROFESSIONAL: It's a pleasure to watch a real pro like Browning skate. 2. something that is an advantage: We discussed the pros and cons (=the advantages and disadvantages) of starting our own business.

professional(1) /pro-fess-e-nal/ adj 1. doing a a job, sport, or activity for money: a professional baseball player 2. professional sports are played by people who are paid

professional(2) /pro-fess-e-nal/ n 1. someone who earns money by doing a job, sport, or activity that other people do just for enjoyment -- compare AMATEUR(2)

amateur(1) /a-ma-ture adj doing something for enjoyment, but not for money: an amateur boxer/musician

amateur(2) n 1. someone who does something because they enjoy it, but not for money -- compare PROFESSIONAL(2)

Unfortunatey (for some people), the above "definitions" are indeed what most people (and particularly most "BIG-time" advertisers, sponsors, media-outlets and most everyday fans of whatever) define "pro" and "professional" as being, so whatever our sport presently rosters-up, it's definitely not "pro" or "professional" by any stretch of the imagination or the "let's pretend" (and "convoluted"?) interpretations of some of you (WAY) "out there"...

Kobe Bryant doesn't pay the Lakers to play, no matter how expensive it is to run their arena -- and I suspect that he'd likely retire (and maybe even play "pick-up" ball) if he wasn't paid as a "pro" player.

Presently, we ONLY have amateur leagues, people -- maybe even "elite amateur", but amateur leagues at best -- as well as "amateur" (and not "pro" or "professional") by "definition"...

[Wingman]

... i think i recall the NHL started as 6 teams?
Montreal Canadians
Toronto Maple Leafs
Boston Bruins
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Blackhawks
New York Rangers

;)

[MajorTomFoolery]

I would like to see the MLRH do good, as it is the only source for check hockey. My issue was with the way Bill Raue ran the league, and I hope the aims, issues, goals and thoughts that he had for the league don't ruin it. It's in the summer, which is a great move. But we must all wait and see how the crowd reacts.
It will take alot however, as the attendance of the Virginia Wings games should prove this:
First season, no wins: 500+ attendees.
Second season, ok record: 100+ or so attendees
Third season, top(?) in division: 50 or less attendees, most of which were family.

[skooled]

Ok. my question now is this (I did ask it before but it got lost in the arguing): Is the 40? odd teams too many? does it water down the competition too much?

heres my thoughts.
At the moment, I think it can be a good Idea, if approached correctly (using the PIHA model to the letter) big exposure, and get the slightly smaller cities/communities following a team. sure the quality will be slightly down for now, but it brings in a wider spread fanbase.
But, for the future, maybe it will need to be trimmed down, or at least capped off at a pre determined number. say there is 8 teams in a division (in pro) maybe once the league is more mature, trimming back to 6, or god forbid even four will make it that much more exciting!!!

being from australia, and not really knowing your countries geography, and where each team is situated on the map could make that suggestion seem a little naive, but I hope you see what I mean by it....

[quick_dry]

I don't see why it needs to be a holy war to justify people being 'professional'. Their is a difference between acting professionally and being a professional. In sport you can look to the Olympics when it was amateurs only - people paid to play were excluded. I think to be classed as a "professional sports player", it isn't about acting professionally (any rep level player should do taht when representing their organisation), nor is it simply about receiving a penny or two (ala swampdonkey's team :) ), it is about earning a decent portion of your income (I'll qualify that as 'the average income', so we don't get people telling us about some guy who was a Doctor and making 300k when he wasn't trainig and playing his pro-team for 30k).

I don't have a huge issue with naming of PIHA - though I must admit when I first heard of the name I was excited to see we had 'pro hockey' again after the collapse of RHI. I'm sure the quality of play is quite high, but it wasn't the 'paid to play pros' I was expecting - elite amateur yes; best rollerhockey league anywhere - maybe; professional players - no.
(skooled you know 'pro league' in Victoria is just a quirk of the Victorians being so damn arrogant ;) )

To qualify my post, as well as inline, I play in one of the teams for the top tier league in Australia that skooled brought up earlier. We do get pro players from overseas, we don't pay for registration, we don't pay team costs, we don't pay travel or accomodation costs when we fly to interstate games, we have games selling in excess of 500 seats (I think my team, not a 'top' team has had 800+ people at some games). We don't get paid, we're not professional - its an elite amateur league.

skooled: it also depends on season length, and how 'pro' your teams are. If you have guys playing that must supplement income with other work then you can't play many more games a season than our NRL teams do (can't recall right now)

[MajorTomFoolery]

Ok. my question now is this (I did ask it before but it got lost in the arguing): Is the 40? odd teams too many? does it water down the competition too much?

heres my thoughts.
At the moment, I think it can be a good Idea, if approached correctly (using the PIHA model to the letter) big exposure, and get the slightly smaller cities/communities following a team. sure the quality will be slightly down for now, but it brings in a wider spread fanbase.
But, for the future, maybe it will need to be trimmed down, or at least capped off at a pre determined number. say there is 8 teams in a division (in pro) maybe once the league is more mature, trimming back to 6, or god forbid even four will make it that much more exciting!!!

being from australia, and not really knowing your countries geography, and where each team is situated on the map could make that suggestion seem a little naive, but I hope you see what I mean by it....

I don't think it will water down the experience too much. A lot of the leagues expansion has moved west, including Colorado, Michican, and California. I think it could get clustered a bit, but the amount of teams now shouldn't be too bad. I agree, however, that there needs to be a cutoff point.
How 'bout that Mason-Dixon division?
I can't help but think of that movie BASEketball, where they had over 200 teams, and you had to wade through 10 playoff games to get to the championship. I think the PIHA's growth can be compared to the competitive balance and localized feel of college sports. There are tons of colleges out there that nobody knows about, but in the localized, small traveling distance of two or three states, fans get many teams to choose from, and thus more interest. And practically everywhere you go, the Tech vs. State game is a local game to see.

[stksave27]

[quote=Wingman;39335]You mean like the youtube thing?

The Growl have commited to a capital investment to put their home games on cable TV in the Local viewing area. They are currently working on Web casts and more. Stay tuned.

[MajorTomFoolery]

[quote=Wingman;39335]You mean like the youtube thing?

The Growl have commited to a capital investment to put their home games on cable TV in the Local viewing area. They are currently working on Web casts and more. Stay tuned.

Oh that is so awesome. TV time is not far off the coast for this league.

MLRH (as this thread is about, and as I have said multiple times) has a lot of catching up to do, but an honest-hearted turn towards the expansion of roller hockey will do the league nicely, I believe.

[Dave Garland]

Just a quick post because I'm too busy planning the Draft Party this upcoming weekend to really dive into any of these subjects:

- Some of the PIHA Gateway games this year will be on television/web television. At least the playoffs and we are working on more (the new PIHA Gateway website comes out soon and will have full video hosting, etc.)

-I wish MLRH best of luck. We will see what they do...because I have no idea what they are coming out with (nor does anyone else which leads me to believe it is the best kept secret ever or it isn't happening).

-I'm not going to go too far into the advertising/media relations that randomly got brought up. This year in our division we have some HUGE corporate sponsors and we are are working on many more. In addition, two television shows in St. Louis aired featuring PIHA here in St. Louis this past weeks. The ratings for the shows were very surprising: 1.2 million people watched over a seven day period.
-My point is that this sport is marketable if done correctly and there is a system for doing it. After sponsor season concludes in a few weeks, the focus turns to promotions, media relations, and game operations. Every night in St. Louis will be a different theme.

For those curious our major sponsors include:
-Pepsi Americas
-On The Run-Mobil
-CFM/Shell Oil
-US Bank
-UPS
The point of this is not shameless bragging or anything of that sort but making the point that yes this can be a sport that is something major corporations are interested in even at the grassroots professional level.

[RichardGraham]

Hey Guys,

This thread was getting way out of hand after being somewhat reasonable for a while.

I don't see how it serves any purpose to have people bashing PIHA or MLRH or any other entity in the inline hockey industry. I don't see how this furthers our sport in any meaningful way.

I think I've been pretty patient, but I will not allow the Forums section to be ruined in this manner, as other message boards in our sport have been ruined. Does anyone wonder why there are so few inline hockey message boards anymore?

I deleted a bunch of posts that had some pretty decent arguments, mixed in with all the personal attacks and extreme negativity. I'm sorry to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but a line has to be drawn.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular in this thread -- I deleted posts from just about everyone after the topic got derailed.

But allow me to emphasize this -- if anyone cries "CENSORSHIP" or personally attacks me for my decision, I invite you to start your own FlameBait.com web site and wish you the best of success. You have that right. But you don't have the right to ruin this site.