Piha Division In So Cal

[Alvare71]

We are going to put a hold on the division down here in so cal, As some of you know they are moving the Anahiem rink to Corona. So we will put everything in place for next year and I am excited about the talent that is out here. I want everyone to realize why I am doing this, its not for me, but for the young kids that are coming up. So they will not have to struggle with sponsors, facilities and to get the respect which our sport continues to struggle from our Ice hockey counter parts. I am not a big player in this sport, just a player who was lucky enough to be playing this sport when it was still pro and I can tell you this, it was an experiance I will never forget. I mean to play hockey and get paid you could not ask for anything more. I want young kids to have the same feeling, maybe one day.

[alex]

Are you going to have all the existing pro teams on board? Pama, Mulisha, Syndicate, are those teams players showing interest in being a part of the league next year?

[Alvare71]

No there will be no full squads allowed to come in as one. The reason is to keep the playing field even. Just as CJ Yoders divsion, And St louis. Thats why there are tournaments, We want to keep people interested and if we have stacked teams this will cause other teams to be cautious. But I feel open tryouts are key to bring a division that will be equal.

[RichardGraham]

Great post. Good luck in 2008.

[missionhockey19]

i think the idea of spreading the talent out among teams for a fair level of competition is a good idea...however how many teams are going to be involved? unless your planning on each rink making 2 proteams vs. just a few teams your going to get practially all the guys that play on syndicate, pama, mulisha, aks all playing and you cant tell me you plan on cutting those players for a weaker talent just to keep things even? afterall...it is a pro team....id say let the teams stay together...it'll make for a stronger PRO division and alot more competitive. dont let the leagues level of play drop like MLRH did...i played in the MLRH approx 2 seasons ago and the talent level looked like a rec division...

just a thought....

[ref'n'roll]

Saw something in an earlier post about the next nearest rink being 50 miles away.

Don't let that deter you in your plans for next season. We have teams that travel 5 hours (300+ miles) to play. We set it up so that traveling teams play at multiple sites (on their travel route) in one weeknd to make the travel more cost effective. It also helps cut down on the number of times teams have to travel.

For example---a team from Pittsburgh travels to York (3 hours) to play on a Saturday night, then travel one hour after the game(s) to a hotel in Harrisburg, play in Harrisburg on Sunday afternoon and drive 3 hours home early Sunday evening.

You don't just have to be locked into one facility. It is great having involvement fron other facilities. It helps grow the sport and also helps the league and the facilities.

Good luck with your endeavor!

Don Frank, PIHA Executive Director of Rules and Discipline

[Dave Garland]

Mission,

Making things even does not mean weaker players are kept instead of stronger ones. It simply means the top players are divided up. There is a good chance that teams could have guys from all the teams you mentioned. For example, here we have Lindenwood guys, Tour Blast guys, etc. They of course are some of the best players so they play pro; however, they are divided up amongst our teams.

Hopefully that helps make a bit more sense of it...

-Dave

[growl89]

i like the idea of a draft, unfortunately the east coast is so spread out in some areas that it is not possible. I like how the other divisions do it though, with a draft party and everything

Dave do your teams change every year? or is there just a new draft for each open spot on a team?

[Dave Garland]

Billy,

I agree it would be impossible to do on the east due to the distance between teams.

Many players will end up on their teams from last year and some will not.

How is that for a vague enough answer lol

[growl89]

Billy,

I agree it would be impossible to do on the east due to the distance between teams.

Many players will end up on their teams from last year and some will not.

How is that for a vague enough answer lol

well that clears it up, thanks dave, you should have just said, "there will be teams in st louis this year with players" i would have gotten the same amount of information ;)

[alex]

No there will be no full squads allowed to come in as one. The reason is to keep the playing field even. Just as CJ Yoders divsion, And St louis. Thats why there are tournaments, We want to keep people interested and if we have stacked teams this will cause other teams to be cautious. But I feel open tryouts are key to bring a division that will be equal.

I know, I figured there'll be open tryouts, I just mean what's the interest level like from the guys from Pama, Syndicate, Mulisha, and AKS? I don't care if those teams stick together, but having all those guys in the division will be key to legitimacy.

[Alvare71]

I understand everyones concern, The distance is not a problem. Its that I want guys to understand its not about Tour mudcats, CCM, Mission we all know you guys are great teams. This is an opprotunity for guys who have never played in tournaments, And yes, if there has to be two pro teams out of a one rink we can do it. And believe me the talent will be there for these pro teams.

I want guys from mission to be excited about playing against each other, Southern cali is formed around tournaments thats what most the rinks like to do. I just want our young kids to see an opprotunity in the future that they will be able to play pro roller hockey 10 mile from there house, if they work hard enough. And trust me I will make sure that the division will be able to skate with any team in the league.

Mission, I am sure you would love to own a team and build it to your standards and you can do that, So it makes some of your friends that won't make your team start there own.

And thats where rivals start up. Back east the league has been going for seven years, guys get mad and they don't like the way its is being ran, but the great thing about this league is that you don't have to skate for anyone you don't want to......You can start your own team, pick your jerseys color, rink location and beat the team that you may not like. That is the American dream. And alot of us have been able to do that already.

Lets make room for the new guys and give them there chance to shine.

[born2runPROgm]

I know, I figured there'll be open tryouts, I just mean what's the interest level like from the guys from Pama, Syndicate, Mulisha, and AKS? I don't care if those teams stick together, but having all those guys in the division will be key to legitimacy.


I have to disagree on needing those guys for legitimacy... They no doubt will help tremendously in all area's of the division however, there is so much young talent in Socal right now that you certainly could have an incredible division, even if you only get a quarter of the NARCh pro guys to come out and join them.

Hell, If you just got the Anaheim Hockey Club alone to come on board you could have a great division! :cool:

[alex]

Understood, but I'm just saying, if our purpose with this league is to give the kids something to look up to and strive to play in when they get older, then we should seek to get the absolute best players we can right? We don't want the 16 or 17 year old minor kids looking up at the major team and saying well, I'm better than that B-rec league guy on the pro team. I'm not saying if every NARCh Pro player in SoCal isn't on board then the division won't be legitimate, I'm just saying shouldn't the goal be to get as much of the top talent as possible?

[Alvare71]

I would like to tell you guys a little story, The year was 1998 We were visiting The Famous Anahiem Bullfrogs, In front of a sell out crowd of 7,534. I was picked up by the Washington Power for that game. Let me tell you something guys the atmosphere was like the perfect storm(great movie) There fans were loud, booing every player that was not wearing the black and gold. The score was close, both of our teams were finishing every check,

My nose was broken that game and I was hesitant to touch the puck. Every time I skated pass the bullfrogs bench they shouted "Skate Sally skate", And yes to this day I like dating girls named Sally. Back to the game, The tension was so tight you can feel that the players were ready to commit a double homicide and they did not care if they were caught. The score was one to one(12:23 in the first) And let me tell you, The hitting was like two freight trains running into each other with the conductors drunken at the wheel. Back to the crowd, We were called every name in the book and some that were not even in the book yet.

It was 9:43 of the first and the score was 10 to 1 Bullfrogs, now we were in survival mode, in this situation you just try to keep your pride. And yes people did pay for this game,So its not like there are mercy rules that apply, amd these fans had no mercy, they wanted blood, they wanted us to miss our flight, get divorced and be cursed for the rest of our life. It was the fourth period and the score was 24 to 5 Bullfrogs.

Now at this point gentleman all you can do as a player is not look at the girl who winked at you when you were warming up and keep your head up when you skated pass the kids who are talking in there little kid voice saying "man look at his face". We were the only team to score 5 goals in the pond that year and we are proud of that.

So all I can say is that it is very important that teams are even and That none of you will ever have to tell a 5 year old boy that has just watched you be plastered along the boards, That yes you are a pro and you can skate.

I love this sport and anyone that knows me, I will take any obstacle on and give my advice to young kids about this wonderfull sport.

[Dave Garland]

Very well said Dave. I agree 100%

[bcottrell]

Given the new ownership at 949 and anaheim staff moving shop to corona, there is no doubt that although the number of facilities has decreased in the last ten years, certainly the rinks that are still standing are in it for the long haul and for the growth of the sport. Also, little is said of this facility but coast to coast still has some of the best adult house leagues in oc....a few skeletons mixed with some pro regulars and some up and comers as well.

All this is fine and dandy to satisfy concern of travel distance and recruiting players. However, I would question just how tight teams are going to be once a draft day has occured. The Pama teams, the mulisha team and the missionites are all very tight knit groups and although a draft definitely makes for a level playing field, teams can dissolve real quick when for example their top draft choice decides not to play because he was drafted to a team that he does not want to play for or his buddy did not get placed on his team. In that respects I agree with missionhockey19. It has been hard enough over the years for Southern California to keep its "pro" leagues running and to take away a players motivation to commit to a season because he is not playing with who he chooses to play for is not going to help the situation much.

[born2runPROgm]

All this is fine and dandy to satisfy concern of travel distance and recruiting players. However, I would question just how tight teams are going to be once a draft day has occured. The Pama teams, the mulisha team and the missionites are all very tight knit groups and although a draft definitely makes for a level playing field, teams can dissolve real quick when for example their top draft choice decides not to play because he was drafted to a team that he does not want to play for or his buddy did not get placed on his team. In that respects I agree with missionhockey19. It has been hard enough over the years for Southern California to keep its "pro" leagues running and to take away a players motivation to commit to a season because he is not playing with who he chooses to play for is not going to help the situation much.

......this is a perfect explanation of why leagues have not worked in Socal. When PIHA or whatever league finally goes to socal, it will be because the players and the rinks down there will be ready for a huge change.

[Alvare71]

I would like to state the obvious, If we are going to have a draft and with any other sport. You can't take your buddy along with You, And yes The owners have to pay and the players have some out of pocket expenses. I would like to say anyone can put a team in, You have to think about the facility.

If a team comes in as one and like you said there are some other players at the rink that will be put on the minor team. Well then you have a real problem because all of these guys that do not play in the house leagues suddenly show up and take 14 spots, that just is not fair. Can I ask you a question do they let pama, melisha, mission play in these house leagues, I would say no and if they did they are in there own division. And I hate to burst all of these narch players but honestly these kids wouldn't know a rec player from a narch pro if they walked in the door. It is only when a Tournament or a pro league is going on.

We are not on tv or in the newspapers so lets play some good hockey and yes gentleman there are politics that come with the Pro division. If I played out of the rink that mission did and was the second pro team, Well that would be discouraging, I have been on both ends of a huge lost and a big win. Its boring to the players on both teams and really boring to the fans.

[alex]

I still don't understand the idea that, if you have a 5 team division in SoCal, you shouldn't pursue the 50 best skaters in the area to play on those teams, assuming 10 skaters a team. I don't care if the teams come in as they are or get drafted there won't be too much of a difference, you'll still have 5 teams all 10 skaters deep with NARCh Pro level talent. Arguably, all 5 of those teams will be as good as any other team in the league because there's no other area in the country (although St. Louis is up there) with such a high concentration of talent.

I mean these players were all split up in the IHA weren't they? I don't remember what those rosters looked like, but I know it wasn't Pama, Mulisha, AKS, and Mission all skating on separate teams.

Sure the league isn't on TV but isn't that a future goal? I think the kids can tell the difference between your average men's league player and a NARCh Pro guy. Maybe the 8 year old in the stands can't much of a difference, but the 16 and 17 year olds considering playing in the Minor division sure can tell the difference. Shouldn't those kids and even the older guys playing in the Minor division have a Pro team to look up to that has the highest caliber of talent available in the area?

[born2runPROgm]

I still don't understand the idea that, if you have a 5 team division in SoCal, you shouldn't pursue the 50 best skaters in the area to play on those teams, assuming 10 skaters a team. I don't care if the teams come in as they are or get drafted there won't be too much of a difference, you'll still have 5 teams all 10 skaters deep with NARCh Pro level talent. Arguably, all 5 of those teams will be as good as any other team in the league because there's no other area in the country (although St. Louis is up there) with such a high concentration of talent.

I mean these players were all split up in the IHA weren't they? I don't remember what those rosters looked like, but I know it wasn't Pama, Mulisha, AKS, and Mission all skating on separate teams.

Sure the league isn't on TV but isn't that a future goal? I think the kids can tell the difference between your average men's league player and a NARCh Pro guy. Maybe the 8 year old in the stands can't much of a difference, but the 16 and 17 year olds considering playing in the Minor division sure can tell the difference. Shouldn't those kids and even the older guys playing in the Minor division have a Pro team to look up to that has the highest caliber of talent available in the area?

No one is saying not to have all those guys involved as the top PIHA pro guys in socal. That would be ideal, however, by splitting them up into a draft your insuring that the teams will be extremely even, just like in st. louis and colorado.

What we're saying is that many of those guys may not be willing to make the sacrifices needed to play in piha... and if say 20 of those 50 don't play because they don't want to put the money up front to get in or they don't want to travel or pay to travel, do fundraisers etc... then certainly with the overabundance of young talent you would be able to fill the remaining spots with good non-narch pro players (platinum or d-1). It wouldn't dilute the division or provide a bad product.

[Alvare71]

Alex,

On one team you keep at least 18 on your roster and at least three goalies. That is 21 players for one team. YOU have to keep that amount because of injury, compitition between players, work, vacations. I want you to understand is that people commit to pro leagues as much as possible, but they do not put PIHA first that is reality.

And Honstly there is alot of talent besides So Cal, St Louis, Colorado. YOU have the whole east coast wich has plenty of talent and are split up as well. If a rink carries a pro and a minor that will be 42 players alone. So for us to have an 8 team division, we need 168 players, so there will plenty of teams and plenty of talent to spread out and thats the way it is going to work.

And I think if they had a maximum of three NARCH players per team I think is fair, They are pro and it is there job to bring there team up to par. Anyone can put a stacked team in and win the whole thing. But it takes a real man to work with what he's got and turn an ok team into a championship contender.


And honestly I do not care if those guys don't come out and play because this league has been going for 7 years without them and this league has players from Team USA that understand that they can't cry about not having there buddy on there team.

[bcottrell]

Well since born2run pro and alvare are the only people really debating on this subject, I guess I dont have to be sensored. Notice none of the players from socals elite tournament teams have placed their two sense in the post. Its really because on the whole they don't care.

Narch and Torhs is over for the year, which means no more free equipment, no more tournament trips paid for, no nothing. Everything, with the exception of a few players, will be paid out of pocket from now until more than likely winternationals. So, any die hard roller rat still ancy enough to play roller hockey is going to floss his new plaid gloves or new one piece or whatever in a house league that he probably weasels his way out of paying for or for a college team where all the surrounding teams sweat his very existence.

That is why although piha in socal would be awesome, it would not be a league consisting of the 50 best players from southern california. At concept, piha poses a threat to two of the greatest assets a southern california roller rat has going for him or her...

The ability to escape from paying for anything related to hockey and.....
The ability to assemble a huge crowd of rink rats upon his/her arrival to a house league game.

Yeah, its pessimistic at best, but at the end of the day kickin it with the boys and collecting together the month's rent wins in Southern California

[bcottrell]

so did my previous response get scrapped? it provided some pretty good truthful insight on southern california's elite inline hockey players

[RichardGraham]

Hi bcottrell,

I'm not sure. I don't recall seeing it, myself.

[CoachClipboard]

Seems like a huge roster Dave. The Lunatics have 40 total players and that is with 2 minor league teams and a pro team. 12 players out and two goalies on each minor team, and 10 players out and 2 goalies on the pro roster. And that is still some serious squeezing in for PT for a lot of guys and 12 minute halves for pros and 10 minute halves for minors. Are you rolling 7 lines? Just curious. Remember that players need to be rostered 20 games to be able to participate in playoffs. Or so it is for the Eastern conference anyhow....Maybe I misread your post somehow.

[Alvare71]

8 team division with probabley 2 minor teams each, we may not need that many guys but safer than sorry. I have always kept 18 on a roster but maybe 12 can work, I just don't want the guys to feel comfortable like there positions are secure. I mean we are entertainers right.

[MBurke]

so did my previous response get scrapped? it provided some pretty good truthful insight on southern california's elite inline hockey players

Bobby,

Negative - something you said in there (probably using the word pay/money/etc) triggered our automatic spam catcher and since you don't have a lot of posts it held it in the moderation queue for approval.

It should show in its proper place now!

[Alvare71]

The So CAl Division will be fine and we will have some good hockey, I think people are looking into it way to much. I was born in California and I know how us Californians think, If the guys think we owe them something, well thats not going to happen and if they don't play its not like they would show up and watch any way.

The thing that has always bothered me is that our sport is struggling and players EGOS are getting in the way. Now with that said all I have been hearing is how we would not be a creditable organization wothout the these players blessing us with there ability to win over SO CAl.


And I am still going to press on and make sure that teams are ran proffesional and show the youngsters that there are other venues other than tournament play.

[ISFN]

Screw thoes EGO's thats what killed the gateway division last year with super-star mouth JP running around telling everyone including the refs, coaches and players that he would "Kill THEM"

You had refs scared to death to call a penalty, then you had them changing penalty's and it got to be a joke.

Players who know and have the rep. of being "world-class" should show it no matter who their playing against and no matter what league it is.

He only acted like that because he looked at PIHA as a joke, I certainly don't think it was that but because of his EGO he obviously did so...with that being said SCREW those guys who "think" their to good or whatever for PIHA cause it will grow with or without them.