absconders

[catch]

it begin with seargent shulze announcing his departure for an unknown location in the st. louis area, only later to learn through these pages that he was in fact an enemy imposter leaving his care bear life to fulfill his role as double agent with the former rivermen. then the scandle erupted and it turns out that another care bear plotted his departure as well. the latest traitor is known as pete. the defiance and betrayal is now complete. these frauds not only eluded their team, but left in such haste that their new assignment had to hoiste themselves to division I. no not because of the new found ability to defeat lindenwood, but rather this was designed solely to avoid the wrath of catch murphy. gentlemen you can run but you cannot hide from catch. like those who had the audacity to close the door to catch at a party in springfield, there will come a day and time when catch, catches up to you. until that day live well for thereafter there shall be only pain.

[RichardGraham]

Very curious post, catch. Very curious.

[JLambertUMSL]

UMSL is also losing its two best players (although Danny Tardiff could argue that the two "absconders" fit into a group of three on MSU, but anyway).

It's not set in stone that UMSL is going DI.

We are thrilled to have them, but they haven't been guaranteed anything.

Aaron and Pete applied to UMSL on their own, knowing full well that nothing is guaranteed.

They're good buddies with a couple of our returning players, one of whom pretty much personally recruited them to UMSL.

They are here on their own, paying their own way.

They are both good students.

This is a free country.

[catch]

i realize that i was just joking with them.

[JLambertUMSL]

i realize that i was just joking with them.

I know. I just want to make sure everyone knows our position.

[madfred]

with all due respect I would take some exception to the notion that MSU lost its 2 best players. Let me premise this by saying that Pete and Aaron are first class hockey players and without question 2 of the best players on our 2006-2007 team. They will be missed and I wish them both the best at UMSL. In looking at the games versus teams at MSU's level or better, at times when MSU was within 2 goals of the lead, in terms of points Chilcutt had 5 goals and 5 assists, Tardiff 2 goals and 5 assists, Vasquez 7 goals and 2 assists, Schulze 3 goals and 3 assists, Tucker 4 goals and an assist, Palozolla 1 goal and 4 assists. No one stands out in that bunch in terms of points nor skill although I'd think anyone would be hard pressed to be as good all around as Tardiff. There are a couple of other guys returning with less points who are crucial defensively. MSU has several incoming freshman who are as strong, if not stronger than the players it will be losing. I don't mean to diminish the notion that we lost 2 very important players, but they are coming from a pretty well balanced team. With that said I have nothing, but respect for UMSL's program and the way it is run. I'd like to see UMSL stick in Division II, as it is somewhat futile to compete with a school with scholarships, but such is life.

[catch]

never mind the fact that catch murphy's dominance in the skateland cup lead to the spoils of victory in spite of ----hits performance. long live the christmas sweater

[MBurke]

I'd like to see UMSL stick in Division II, as it is somewhat futile to compete with a school with scholarships, but such is life.

Aren't there ~50 other schools in DI to compete with?

Not that UMSL has won every year, but they already have a championship in DII and have been deep in the tournament every year except Colorado. What more do they need to prove in DII? I'd love to see them move up - it's better for the league to have the most competitive teams in Division I.

Is the 'stay away from Lindenwood' mentality why I have friends that like to run through Dynasty Mode on Madden with it set on:

1) Rookie mode
2) No penalties
3) Trades made to secure every All-Pro on one roster
4) Created players rated 99 overall?

Doesn't winning the majority of your games 99-0 and holding the opponent to -75 total yards get boring after a while?

[RichardGraham]

What are you trying to say, Mike? ;)

[Leaferguy]

Richard, if I'm not mistaken, I think he's accusing some teams of accusing UMSL of "accidentally" turning off their console whenever they go down in a game!!



(as with most of my posts, just kidding, even though I don't know how you could take that seriously :p :D)

[JLambertUMSL]

This post is personal and does not reflect any official policy or position of the UMSL Inline Hockey Club!


Is the 'stay away from Lindenwood' mentality why I have friends that like to run through Dynasty Mode on Madden with it set on:

1) Rookie mode
2) No penalties
3) Trades made to secure every All-Pro on one roster
4) Created players rated 99 overall?

Doesn't winning the majority of your games 99-0 and holding the opponent to -75 total yards get boring after a while?

Crappy analogy. Come on Burkey, you can do better than that. :cool:

Six of our seven events each season are played within the GPCIHL, so that's what I'm thinking of first. Let's take a look back at GPCIHL DII in 2006-07.

In '06-07 GPCIHL DII included two eventual national final-four teams (UMSL and SLU).

Neither won the regular-season title (that was Truman State, who would become the fourth straight regular-season GPCIHL DII champ to lose at Regionals).

SLU lost in overtime of a quarterfinal at Regionals to the fifth-place team (Missouri State), who had forced OT by scoring with less than :20 left.

The sixth-place team (Southern Illinois) had the third-place team (Wash U) tied with less than five minutes left in the other quarterfinal.

So who's winning every game 99-0 and holding the other team to -75 yards?

The two GPCIHL teams that made it to the final four at Nationals finished second and fourth in their league during the regular season.

We beat Truman State 3-0 and 7-3, and lost to them 4-3.
We tied SLU 4-4 and beat them 5-3.
We beat Wash U 8-6, 7-2, and 10-1.
We beat MSU 7-5 and 9-5.

That's a little more competitive than you're making it out to be.

And without Zach Stacy (who is not coming back for '07-08), there is little doubt that the first-semester matchups against Wash U and MSU, and both games against SLU, would have been losses.

On the other hand, there was a grand total of two ECRHA DII teams that had a chance to make it to their regional championship game, and later the national final four -- everyone figured SBU and Neumann would play in the ECRHA final, and everyone figured SBU and Neumann would be in the national final four. And that's exactly what happened. So don't mention us exclusively.

Everyone also knew UMSL and Neumann would have a rematch in the national championship game... :o

For the most part, DII is exciting and competitive on the national level, and nothing is certain. Given the choice, I'd choose to stay in DII.

Staying in DII is about choosing to continue longstanding rivalries with our league opponents and with Nevada, Neumann, Hofstra, and Maine.

Last season, we came within two goals of facing our archrival in the national championship game.

Think about that for a second!

So given the choice (yes, we're lucky that we have a choice), I'll choose that over a situation where our big rivals are two community colleges and a DI opponent who happens to give out tuition assistance in an amount that probably exceeds the total club budget of us, Neumann, Nevada, Hofstra, Maine, and our nine GPCIHL DII opponents combined.

So why leave DII?

The situation with UMSL last year:

Before last season, we were planning on losing our captain and career scoring leader, and replacing our four-year starting goaltender with a freshman nobody's ever heard of. At this time last year, we had two goaltenders total. One of them was the freshman who didn't even play the whole season for his HS team as a senior, and the other was our returning B goalie who automatically misses a quarter of the season because he's in the Army Reserve and has drill on certain weekends. So to make the jump to DI would have been pretty stupid. We didn't have to do it, so we didn't.

And as for 2007-08:

Hasn't the ECRHA basically forced the hand of everyone else as far as DI vs. DII? Aren't teams like Neumann and Brook being forced at the regional level to move to DI?

That's the basic question.

So let's not complain too much yet. Chances are, you'll get what you want soon enough.

But let's not forget:

This past season, the current system produced one of the most exciting and unpredictable DII tournaments we could have possibly hoped for -- and you really could have said that about each of the last four DII Nationals. It's a hell of a tournament, year after year. The favorite has won exactly ONCE in the last four years (and said favorite, Nevada '04-05, actually trailed in its semifinal and final games).

Nobody can possibly dispute the significance of that '07 SLU-Neumann semifinal, as an upset, the end of a streak/era, and overall just an "instant classic" type of game -- maybe the "instant classic" in NCRHA history. (Unless, of course, it's summarily dismissed along with everything else that happens in DII.)

(Other instant classics are games like the SBU-Neumann ECRHA DII final in '07, the Wash U-UMSL GPCIHL DII final in '06, the Wash U-Nevada NCRHA DII semi in '05, the UMSL-Neumann NCRHA DII final in '04, or the '04 UMSL-UTD quarterfinal, when a team who'd entered the tournament unbeaten saw its season end on a goal with :01 left in regulation. OTOH, I can't think of a single DI game that measures up to the six games I just mentioned. In the end, everyone knows who's going to win. The rest is just window-dressing, if you want to be cynical about it -- but I have to be! This is an important decision, and I'm trying to think about what's going to be more fun over the course of the eight-month grind.)



Aren't there ~50 other schools in DI to compete with?

Not that UMSL has won every year, but they already have a championship in DII and have been deep in the tournament every year except Colorado. What more do they need to prove in DII? I'd love to see them move up - it's better for the league to have the most competitive teams in Division I.

Why is UMSL always the name you mention?? :p

You're not disguising your intentions very well, Burkey. If Towson wants to play UMSL that badly, can't you just:

a) tell someone to put us in the same RR pool at the Winter Invitational,
b) bring your team to a GPCIHL weekend, or
c) help us get on the schedule and find good travel accommodations for an ECRHA weekend?

(edits)

That's all it takes, really. We're not in the business of ducking anyone. As far as I'm concerned, we can play Lindenwood eight times next year and Towson six if it means we still get to play Wash U, SLU, Missouri State, Truman State, and SIU during the regular season, and those teams plus possibly Neumann, Nevada, Hofstra, Maine, Brook, Drexel, or Lee Clark at DII Nationals.

(Now the wheels are spinning. How about a "combined region" event, like MCRHL and GPCIHL in Indianapolis or Cincinnati, or ECRHA and GPCIHL in Columbus? Holy ----, would that ever be fun.)

Yes, it would sound really cool to be able to tell our families and friends that we played Ohio State, Mizzou, Texas, Florida, Michigan, or Penn State at Nationals. But our rivalries with those DII teams are too much fun to leave behind.

I want to make it clear that UMSL's decision has not been made. And once again, this post does not represent official club policy, nor does it represent any kind of consensus of opinion. It's just my own take on the situation.

But rest assured: if we do move to DI, it won't be because some dude in Cockytown, Maryland thinks we should. :)


Once again, this post is my opinion, James Ryan Lambert, not the opinion of the UMSL Inline Hockey Club. I mean nothing but respect to anyone I mentioned above. Should anyone have any problems, issues, or disputes with anything I have posted, please let me know and I will edit it!

[MBurke]

Lambert,

Don't flatter yourself too much - I only used UMSL because they were the team being discussed; maybe relevance to what was being spoken about was my reasoning for mentioning UMSL? I believe just about every other DII conversation I've ever been involved in has focused on Neumann first (rightly so, since I think more so than any other school they should be looking seriously at moving up to Division I).

I was commending you guys for considering it, not insulting you for staying down!

As for DII being 'more competitive' - I agree with you in terms of the Great Plains and probably most of the ECRHA. In reality I think ALL of the teams you mentioned should be Division I teams!

I think it creates problems in our current system when teams that can legitimately compete in Division I don't move up, though:

1) Poor teams from large schools are 'stuck' in Division I because of school size and have to play top-tier programs (ie Lindenwood) week in and week out. These teams would probably be fairly competitive in DII but can't move down and usually fall apart after a few years.

2) Poor teams in DII have to play teams that are highly competitive (Neumann) week in and week out. Usually they just quit because they don't have a division they can play 'fun' games in - losing 21-0 to Neumann doesn't help anyone. In one case, we actually had a school move UP this year because they thought they'd be more competitive in DI regionally than DII. Even you have to admit that that is ass-backwards, right?

Contrary to popular belief in the NCRHA rumor mill, ECRHA is not forcing any teams to move up this year. No one's been required to move. Read here: http://ncrha.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=1 Additionally, I'd like to point out that neither I nor any staff member of the ECRHA makes a decision like that. All of our schools have a vote and a say in it - all major decisions like this are ultimately decided by the clubs themselves.

I agree that the DII tournament was great and has been for four years - but I don't think it would be any less great if we had (ideally) the top 50 teams in the country in DI instead of a 50/50 split like I think we have now.

[MBurke]

If of interest:

ECRHA regional DI vs. DII games since 2002. Notice how much closer the games have been for the past 2-3 years.

[JLambertUMSL]

Lambert,

Don't flatter yourself too much

I try not to be rude, and you get all cocky.




- I only used UMSL because they were the team being discussed; maybe relevance to what was being spoken about was my reasoning for mentioning UMSL? I believe just about every other DII conversation I've ever been involved in has focused on Neumann first (rightly so, since I think more so than any other school they should be looking seriously at moving up to Division I).

And I wanted to take the opportunity to state my opinion and kill some time (OK, a lot of time) at work.


I was commending you guys for considering it, not insulting you for staying down!

I appreciate it.


As for DII being 'more competitive' - I agree with you in terms of the Great Plains and probably most of the ECRHA. In reality I think ALL of the teams you mentioned should be Division I teams!

Yes -- but then you're starting to create 15-20-team super-regions like the ECRHA (which should be two separate regions).

(More response on the way.)

[JLambertUMSL]

I think it creates problems in our current system when teams that can legitimately compete in Division I don't move up, though:

1) Poor teams from large schools are 'stuck' in Division I because of school size and have to play top-tier programs (ie Lindenwood) week in and week out. These teams would probably be fairly competitive in DII but can't move down and usually fall apart after a few years.


Kansas State moved down.



2) Poor teams in DII have to play teams that are highly competitive (Neumann) week in and week out. Usually they just quit because they don't have a division they can play 'fun' games in - losing 21-0 to Neumann doesn't help anyone. In one case, we actually had a school move UP this year because they thought they'd be more competitive in DI regionally than DII.


Maybe schools entering just one team should be allowed to put it in the B Division if they so choose (Regional Director would have veto power if needed to maintain competitive integrity/balance).



Even you have to admit that that is ass-backwards, right?


Even you what?

Even I, devoid of logic?
Even I, some midwestern hayseed?
Even I, arrogant pompous ass?
Even I, friend of Tomy Ames?

Have to admit that it is ass-backwards?

Yes, I admit that it is ass-backwards.



Contrary to popular belief in the NCRHA rumor mill, ECRHA is not forcing any teams to move up this year. No one's been required to move. Read here: http://ncrha.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=1

I'm not criticizing the ECRHA. Sometimes that's what it takes to force a change for the better at a national level. Thanking the ECRHA is what I would be doing if I were truly objective. :)

It is abundantly clear, whether the ECRHA intends it or not, what the effect is going to be, because in any given year, half of the DII top ten is ECRHA. If the top ECRHA DII teams go DI, it will weaken the competition in DII, and the DII national championship will lose some of its luster.


Additionally, I'd like to point out that neither I nor any staff member of the ECRHA makes a decision like that. All of our schools have a vote and a say in it - all major decisions like this are ultimately decided by the clubs themselves.

Why not? Sometimes executive power is the only thing that really works.



I agree that the DII tournament was great and has been for four years - but I don't think it would be any less great if we had (ideally) the top 50 teams in the country in DI instead of a 50/50 split like I think we have now.

That's reasonable.

(The biggest problem is that the grass is just not greener in DI. We've all developed rivalries, some of them bitter, almost all of them respectful. That makes for a superb Nationals.)

[MBurke]

Even I, friend of Tomy Ames?

That's what I was going for :D

In some ways, you could argue that the ECRHA is really 3 regions with our conference play ... in a sense, we have our own 'super-regional' at the end of the year. Unfortunately, it's tough to divide us into two regions geographically. Almost all of our teams are within 200 miles of each other, and the vast majority of facilities in the northeast are in Pennsylvania.

The changes we've made in ECRHA are in the hope that we can make the grass greener in DI. Nationally it seems we've backed ourselves into a corner wherein DII teams see no benefit in moving up to DI. Hopefully what we've done here in the offseason plants the seeds for that.

I can only imagine how awesome a division like this would be in GPCIHL:
- Lindenwood
- St. Charles
- Meramec
- SLU
- UMSL
- Truman
- Washington
- Mizzou

Not leaving anyone out on purpose, just who I could think of off the cuff...and imagine how much better those 1-15 teams would feel having a chance to be competitive again?

[JLambertUMSL]

with all due respect I would take some exception to the notion that MSU lost its 2 best players.

I don't blame you. Tardiff, Vasquez, Tucker, and Palazzolo are all excellent players.


Let me premise this by saying that Pete and Aaron are first class hockey players and without question 2 of the best players on our 2006-2007 team. They will be missed and I wish them both the best at UMSL. In looking at the games versus teams at MSU's level or better, at times when MSU was within 2 goals of the lead, in terms of points Chilcutt had 5 goals and 5 assists, Tardiff 2 goals and 5 assists, Vasquez 7 goals and 2 assists, Schulze 3 goals and 3 assists, Tucker 4 goals and an assist, Palozolla 1 goal and 4 assists. No one stands out in that bunch in terms of points nor skill although I'd think anyone would be hard pressed to be as good all around as Tardiff.

Interesting numbers.

Agreed - I like Tardiff's game a lot.


There are a couple of other guys returning with less points who are crucial defensively. MSU has several incoming freshman who are as strong, if not stronger than the players it will be losing.

That's great to hear. Who are you guys adding?


I don't mean to diminish the notion that we lost 2 very important players, but they are coming from a pretty well balanced team. With that said I have nothing, but respect for UMSL's program and the way it is run. I'd like to see UMSL stick in Division II, as it is somewhat futile to compete with a school with scholarships, but such is life.

http://www.ncrha.org/article.php?article_id=51199

I like your team. :)

[train]

never mind the fact that catch murphy's dominance in the skateland cup lead to the spoils of victory in spite of ----hits performance. long live the christmas sweater

there is no doubt in my mind that the dark team will repeat as skateland cup champs, even if catch is in jail.

[catch]

the insinuation that catch would be imprisoned is without merit. catch remains at large and always will. the reference to the success of the dark team is evidence of the train's racist propensity and should be treated with scorn for his disdain of the civil rights of all skateland cup seekers.