The State of NCRHA

[paddymac]

When are you guys going to start thinking about things that matter? Complaining about stats is stupid. I'm better then you are......who cares, that's what we play the games for. I'm worried about where the league is headed.....or more like where it isn't headed. As it stands now it doesn't come off as much more then an expensive, glorified, beer league.

There are alot of people who work hard for this league, but what are they working for? I'd love to see a plan of some sort, on where the league is headed. What are the short term goals? What are the long term goals? I'm sure we're working towards something, but does anyone know what it is? If we're not working towards something, that's a shame and it needs to be defined. If the plan is the status quo, that's pretty sad.

When are we going to see some DII teams move up to DI? I don't want to hear the "we're at a disadvantage we don't have as many students" argument. The good teams are good every year and it's not because of the size of the student body. It's because of funding, structure, organization, and hard work. When will we restructure around these factors?

What are we going to do about an NCT that is basically decided in two divisions before the teams even show up? I think what Lindenwood has is great, but they have a clear advantage over every other team in the league. I'm not saying we need to level the playing field, but do some sort of restrictions need to be put in place?

Why don't we have NCT in the same place every year? St Louis is ideal. It's central to everyone, affordable to get to, and it's a great area for hockey where we could potentially develop a following. I know it's not glamorous, but it makes sense for all the right reasons.

Why do we have a rulebook? Rules are well defined and in place for a reason. There was a situation this year in the MCRHL where a clear rule infraction took place and the league at regional and national level basically looked the other way. Rules are meant to be objective not subjective; hearing about the "spirit of the rule" is ridiculous. Why should any team follow the rules, when you can cheat and get away with it? Teams playing without following uniform requirements? That's as basic a rule infraction as you can have and it was allowed? How fair is that to all the teams who fundraised or convinced their school to give them more money for their legal uniforms? Do we even need a restriction on uniforms? Why?

I've had enough ranting for now......it's time for everyone to start looking at the big picture. I don't want to hear "get involved." When is the league going to start giving teams responsibilities and requiring them to fulfill them for their membership? The biggest resource this league has, its members, is not being used.

[MBurke]

Please see attached doc - ECRHA is doing this for 2007-2008 (it's just a quick breakdown, not meant to be a comprehensive doc).

There have also been numerous proposals over the last 5 years to fix a lot of these problems, but most of the pushback has come from regional directors who claim that it's not representative of what their teams want. If they are incorrect, it's the job of team reps and players to inform them of their opinions and pressure them to follow through.

I hate to keep harping on the "get involved" portion of things, but the only way change comes about is through the voice of the teams and players. It doesn't mean you necessarily have to volunteer to run your region, but make an effort to think up solutions and lobby for them regionally and nationally. It's the same as any other type of politics!

[DGlass]

Regarding the ECRHA's 2007-08 initiative.

The ECRHA has long realized that a team's talent has little to do with the size of the school. In the beginning (think MAR - Huck, Brennan et al.), inline hockey was not a widely popular sport. It was more often than not the larger schools which could field competitive teams (though RIT was the exception). Now, with a core group of dedicated staff and volunteers, the ECRHA is prepared to take the next step towards building a marketable league and company.

The ECRHA's 2007-2008 initiative is designed to inch teams towards a higher level of organization and grow the sport. The idea is to provide incentives to clubs to become more organized and, eventually, more talented and competitive.


To echo Burke's statement, this is only possible because there has been more call to action and more people standing up to make this work. Current staff, current and former players, parents and coaches have all volunteered their insight and ideas (and time) to the league in telling us it is truly time to take the next all-important step. I hope to recruit more student-athletes to take a role in the future of the ECRHA and embrace the opportunities available to gain real-world experience that can and will help in the future.

I hope that players, parents and coaches in other regions take a close look at what the ECRHA is doing. Think about it and let us know if you agree with our methodology. Give us recommendations. Tell us what we are doing wrong, and why. Tell us what we are doing right, and how.

I hope other regions embrace what we are trying to do, move this sport ahead and establish it as more than just a 'glorified beer league'. I harbor no grand illusions that we will be on Sportscenter next year (or in 5 years, for that matter). But I do believe we can carve our own niche and make more people proud to have played for the CRHL/NCRHA and their respective teams.

[BccCP33]

"Why don't we have NCT in the same place every year? St Louis is ideal. It's central to everyone, affordable to get to, and it's a great area for hockey where we could potentially develop a following. I know it's not glamorous, but it makes sense for all the right reasons.

Why do we have a rulebook? Rules are well defined and in place for a reason. There was a situation this year in the MCRHL where a clear rule infraction took place and the league at regional and national level basically looked the other way. Rules are meant to be objective not subjective; hearing about the "spirit of the rule" is ridiculous. Why should any team follow the rules, when you can cheat and get away with it? Teams playing without following uniform requirements? That's as basic a rule infraction as you can have and it was allowed? How fair is that to all the teams who fundraised or convinced their school to give them more money for their legal uniforms? Do we even need a restriction on uniforms? Why?"


In our situation. This was our 1st year in the league. We didnt know and they knew we didnt know. Plus there were only 6 teams in DIII.. as tournament director, are you personally gunna tell a group of people that each spent individually $500+ (with no help from school) of their money to come play at nationals that they cannot play? No you wouldn't. You'd make an inital exception and not allow it to happen again. we're not anarchists, cuz we had a big tour logo on our @ss, which is why we getting new jerseys (w/ matching pants too!)

As far as where the NCT hsould be held? That site was good but you can't give GP teams the home court advantage every year, there are plenty of rinks that can host this tourny.

[Leaferguy]

As far as where the NCT hsould be held? That site was good but you can't give GP teams the home court advantage every year, there are plenty of rinks that can host this tourny.
Agreed, and may I say that as a goaltender (I use that loosely), the square crease or arbitrary arc crease is not cool. I know it's a small thing, but small things like that drive me nuts :D Aside from that, the NCAA moves its championships yearly and they're pretty legit.

[TUcoach]

I feel that alot of the NCRHA problems come form the regions themselves. The Ncrha does have a rule book and should be enforce across the board. Being a first year team is No excuse for not knowing the rules. Being a 1st year team is more of a reason to read them and know what your up against. Also, somewere down the line your regional director should have said something to you about it. Keep in mind that Nassua was a first year team.

That being said, the NCRHA has made improvement in the past year, perfect no, room for improvement..yes. But it take more from the players, teams, coaches, and the regions. The attitude of just pay your dues and play and whatever happens happens has got to stop.

[MAmato]

In our situation. This was our 1st year in the league. We didnt know and they knew we didnt know.I don't buy that for a second. It's clearly outlined in the rulebook, and there have been plenty of first year teams that managed to purchase uniforms. You guys got off easy.

[BccCP33]

I don't buy that for a second. It's clearly outlined in the rulebook, and there have been plenty of first year teams that managed to purchase uniforms. You guys got off easy.

yeah, we did.

that won't be expected next year.

[GripperWheels]

Great post.......""where the league is headed.....or more like where it isn't headed. As it stands now it doesn't come off as much more then an expensive, glorified, beer league. ""

THATS why next years rules 5 year eligibility and no pro rule will water down the league even more. They do not want the best players playing.
MORE RULES for a club sport equals less players playing next year that are the best. We do not want GOLD level play. Bring in next years rules and the best players will be cut out from Lindenwood and the rest of the good teams. 5 years and the no pros/bad rules.

How about some showcase games between the best college teams not the Bronze league Beer teams..... This has to make sense to somebody.
Do not let the rule book, rule out more players or you must be one of the people that likes that the refs decide the game with there hand up all the time.

[islanderfan]

The uniform deal has been a problem for a long time. Back in 2001, at nationals, my team was informed a month before the tournament that we needed to have a light & dark jersey, or we would not be eligible to play. We managed to buy jerseys and get the numbers put on them in time (one guys jersey # did not match on both jerseys). We were read the riot act about this. Later in the tournament, we faced another team who did not have enough light or dark jerseys to outfit their entire squad. When I mentioned this to the national board just before our game, they told me they would make a decision, (and promptly left the building) leaving the decision to the refs and us to decide. We played the game, but we should never have been put into that situation.
I do believe the board of the NCRHA is better than that now. I wouldn't expect them to walk away from the problem, but it seems as if they are still not willing to enforce the rules they publish. My point is that rules must be enforced across the board, no exceptions, or they should be disgarded. It would be a shame to travel to nationals and not be allowed to play, but it is equally bad to force one team to adhere to the rules and let another one slide.
In my opinion, the NCRHA has made great strides in making the games and officiating more uniform. It's a growing experience, but once a rule is written, it must be enforced. No one rule is above another. If I am allowed to disregard the uniform rule, I should also be allowed to disregard the enrolled credit requirement, or any other rule. The NCRHA's best course of action is to establish ,publish and enforce the rules . If they wish to go above and beyond, they can remind people of the rules when they accept a bid to the nationals. If a team disregards the rules after this, it is not the NCRHA's fault that they can not play, but the fault of the team.

Jerry Remsbecker
KSU Roller Hockey Club
Faculty Adviser & Coach

[MBurke]

While I agree with putting the 5-year eligibility rule up for debate, I really don't think professional ice or roller hockey players should be playing a college sport, regardless of intent.

It's not about maintaining a level of play or any reason other than preserving status as a sport of amateur athletes. Is it really good for the overall reputation of the league to have guys that were paid to play in the OHL or RHI now back playing a college sport? While it may get some fleeting publicity, there are better ways to go about it.

That said, HOW we define a professional roller hockey player is definitely something that needs to be addressed.

[ISFN]

I don't understand how it will water down the league one bit?

I play both PIHA and NCRHA and would drop PIHA in a second for college.

I think the new "no pro" rule will only make the sport as a whole better, it was give kids an avenue after college. I think it will make college better as kids will now only focus on college and then after their college years can move onto the pros, the pro league here at Gateway isn't anything more than an Elite college league with 4 teams.

..And why would you not have a 5 year eligibility rule, it shouldn't take more than that to graduate, your only promoting failure.

..And yes I hope it waters down lindenwood, they won't ever be able to replace Marchand and Thompson and thats a good thing!

I'm calling it now, their streak will end next year :)

[islanderfan]

5 year eligibility and no pros are good rules. Like it or not, NCAA is the standard for college sports. It has been many years since any true college sport has allowed more than 5 years eligibility or pros to play. This is all in an effort to make the sports competitive college sports. I'm not aware of any college ice hockey players in the pros and playing for their college at the same time. You have to make a choice. By the way, the five year rule is not new. It's been on the books since the beginning of the NCRHA, there were no reliable records before that, so in an effort to be fair, the NCRHA established 5 years NCRHA eligibility. Everyone should have been aware that that was coming. The banning of professionals in a college sport should have been a given from day one.
College sports are not about competition of the best (see NHL, NFL, NBA, etc) but are more interesting than that because they are about students striving to do their best in a sport while concentrating on an education.

Jerry Remsbecker
KSU Roller Hockey Club
Faculty Adviser & Coach

[KillinAintShe]

No, move Nationals around the country. Having it at home blows.

[ISFN]

No, move Nationals around the country. Having it at home blows.


You got your sun tan lotion? Well I think your going to need it next year, stay tuned for hopfully an offical annoucement!

;)

[James Lambert]

I don't understand how it will water down the league one bit?

I play both PIHA and NCRHA and would drop PIHA in a second for college.

I don't understand what's wrong with playing both. I think the rule is to protect against 32-year-old former RHI players coming in and killing people.


the pro league here at Gateway isn't anything more than an Elite college league with 4 teams.

Kinda, but JP Beilsten, Ryan Marchand, the Daleos, Chris Loness, and Steve Hewkin don't play college anymore...


..And why would you not have a 5 year eligibility rule, it shouldn't take more than that to graduate, your only promoting failure.

Agreed.



..And yes I hope it waters down lindenwood, they won't ever be able to replace Marchand and Thompson and thats a good thing!

They might not be able to replace those two, because they're unique. But so is PJ Tallo. That kid is off-the-charts phenomenal.

I don't know much about the NY kid they're also getting next year (Johnny Mac?). Supposedly he's pretty damn good too.

And that Itan kid from California. Is he still coming?

I don't think LU is going away anytime soon.

[ISFN]

I don't think theres anything wrong with playing both, I was saying if I had to, I would drop PIHA over NCRHA anyday.

[Leaferguy]

..And why would you not have a 5 year eligibility rule, it shouldn't take more than that to graduate, your only promoting failure.
What about grad school students?

[ISFN]

What about grad school students?


Play PIHA:)

But no seriously your right, there should be an extension to the Grad School students, maybe 2 years but no more.

I was talking about 5 years to get your B.A or whatever is plenty.
Their already giving you an extra year.

[TheSnake22]

if you didnt read Burke's post in another thread, this "pro" rule will not prevent (almost) anyone in PIHA from playing NCRHA. unless you're getting paid in excess of your travel, rink and equipment costs, and pretty much no one is, you'll still be eligible. Many college players are just as good as PIHA players, or are PIHA players, and i don't think either league has reached the point where they want to be excluding people from competing... Someday it will be necessary but there's really no need for it yet...

[GoRangrHky]

Johnny Mac could shoot a puck through a coin slot and still manage to get change. It's ridiculous.

That being said, I don't know how well he'll do at Lindenwood. Nothing against the kid, I think he's a great player and a genuinely good kid, but considering the people who he's played with and against, he seems to just want to take the puck and make it happen himself. As most of us have seen, that is NOT Lindenwood's style. I don't know how he'll fit into that kind of system. On the other hand, maybe playing with such high level players will allow him to make those plays, knowing that after he dishes it off, something positive will happen with it. But to me, he might be their biggest question make. That being said, I'd take him on my team in a heartbeat.

I love the new ECRHA proposal. I think it's somethnig that other regionals should look at and definitely adopt, if not for next year, than the year after. It's nothing overly complicated, all it asks is that the top teams make themselves look like the top teams, and that you find someone to run your team from the bench that isn't some B kid in sweats halfway down his ass and a sideways multicolored yankees hat. While it might not do much for the current players, to freshmen and incoming high school kids, it creates a sense of... something (can't think of the word right now)... that will lead to this becoming a better league overall. Small steps here, folks. But if we don't take these steps eventually, there's going to be NO way that we can achieve bigger goals in the future.

And how will this 'pro' rule really change our game? How many people in this league have recieved true monetary compensation for playing hockey? This doesn't include equipment, uniforms, rink time, tournament fees, or meal money. I doubt it's all that many, honestly.

[socalhockey]

If the NCRHA is ever going to be considered a legitimate sport, then coaches for all teams must be mandatory. No one will ever take a college sport that does not require a coach on the bench seriously. There has to be someone that is accountable for the players. Many of the serious programs already have this in place and I commend them for that, however many including alot of the teams out west do not, and this needs to change. Having coaching shows the commitment to not only the program but the sport itself. Have quality coaching and the players will come!

[Leaferguy]

Play PIHA:)

But no seriously your right, there should be an extension to the Grad School students, maybe 2 years but no more.

I was talking about 5 years to get your B.A or whatever is plenty.
Their already giving you an extra year.
As a technicality, I'd like to point out that my school has a standard five-year program :D A sixth would be extra for me. All nitpicking aside, though, I think it would make sense to separate eligibility restrictions between UG and Grad.

[hockeyplayer1]

I feel the next step in legitimizing and growing the sport is for the regions to become a bit more united. Rule differences between the regions (such as the 10 goal mercy rule in Great Plains) creates a divided league and taints national stats for players and goalies alike. The NCRHA should be the overall governing body, and have each region abide by the rules locally.

The ECRHA intiative looks like a great step for that region. But why is it just the ECRHA doing it? Why can't it be an NCRHA initiative that every region must abide by? The fact that individual regions are becoming more and more segregated will only hurt the sport.

[someaction]

I'm going to reiterate what PaddyMac said from the beginning:

Rules must be created by the NCRHA, and infractions must be met with proper discipline by the NCRHA.

Any variation between regions is ridiculous... why should any one group of teams have any different benefits over another group of teams. (i.e. - number of roster changes per semester, roster open dates, credits for eligibility, etc.). With the exception of a DH in the AL and non in the NL, can you name any other sport where rules are actually different in different conferences within the same league?

Government by the people, for the people, only works if there is actual governing being done.

[I posted this and saw the exact same message posted by hockeyplayer1... great minds think alike]

[MBurke]

To my knowledge the ONLY rule difference of any region nationwide is that 10-goal mercy rule. I think everyone else follows the NCRHA Rule Book - whether they enforce everything in it is another issue, but I don't think anyone else plays with different rules.


The ECRHA intiative looks like a great step for that region. But why is it just the ECRHA doing it? Why can't it be an NCRHA initiative that every region must abide by? The fact that individual regions are becoming more and more segregated will only hurt the sport.

Read my post again. It's not even really an "initiative" - it's been proposed to the NCRHA numerous times and ECRHA teams felt three years was long enough to wait for NCRHA to implement it.

I will repeat again, since a lot of people don't seem to get what I'm saying. NCRHA DOES NOT AND CAN NOT DIRECTLY DICTATE POLICY TO REGIONS UNDER ITS CURRENT STRUCTURE. The only way anything can pass in the NCRHA is if the Board of Directors (made up of a director from each region) approves it. If you want something like this to happen in your region, talk to your director about it and indicate that you support it.

[Patn Lawton]

I think there are a lot of reasons to have at least a 5 year eligibility rule...

How about for someone who transfered from one school to another (and not all the credits would transfer), someone who switched majors and needs more time, or someone who started a season, had a family emergency, and left school without completing the second half of the season.

I have also known a few people who go to school full time, taking 12 credits a semester instead of 15. At this pace they graduate in 5 years. It has allowed them to work a decent amount of hours to help pay for school. My junior and senior year of school I took 12 credit semesters because I was so involved with the team that I needed extra time every week to do a variety of different things (I did finish over the summer though, making it 4 years + 1 summer).

[GripperWheels]

The 5 year rule. Just adding up the CC 3 year rule. 3 plus 3 equals 6 after you transfer.
Mackert from MSU is the example of let them play until the finish there college education.
Undergrad,grad and student teaching.
If we did transfer to NCAA than there would be a 5 year rule but not yet. So stop making rules to market against the showcase players.

[dan sangiorgio]

Read my post again. It's not even really an "initiative" - it's been proposed to the NCRHA numerous times and ECRHA teams felt three years was long enough to wait for NCRHA to implement it.

I will repeat again, since a lot of people don't seem to get what I'm saying. NCRHA DOES NOT AND CAN NOT DIRECTLY DICTATE POLICY TO REGIONS UNDER ITS CURRENT STRUCTURE. The only way anything can pass in the NCRHA is if the Board of Directors (made up of a director from each region) approves it. If you want something like this to happen in your region, talk to your director about it and indicate that you support it.

It seems like what you are saying is one or two regions are not willing to make changes, while other regions are. i really think that besides the ecrha, the great plains, midwest, and maybe the west and south east are ready for that proposal and would all be on board to make these rules changes asap ... i could be wrong but if they are ready then why not just do it and then the other regions will be forced to follow. I can't think of a good reason why the rule changes the ecrha are proposing would hurt the ncrha. it just seems the ncrha would rather cater to the weak and unorganized which is just plain stupied.

[minveninato]

I don't know much about the NY kid they're also getting next year (Johnny Mac?). Supposedly he's pretty damn good too.

yes his name is johnny mac and hes ridiculous hahaha watch out don't be surprised if he has a monster year, he is quick, has great vision, and has unbelievable hands

[GoRangrHky]

The 5 year rule. Just adding up the CC 3 year rule. 3 plus 3 equals 6 after you transfer.
Mackert from MSU is the example of let them play until the finish there college education.
Undergrad,grad and student teaching.
If we did transfer to NCAA than there would be a 5 year rule but not yet. So stop making rules to market against the showcase players.


That's not true. It's a total of 5 years in the NCRHA, and 3 for DIII. Next year will only be the 5th year of the NCRHA, and any CRHL years do NOT count towards this total, so no one could be over at this point anyway. Any time that Mackert played in the CRHL didn't count towards this.

The NCAA 5 year rule states that you have 5 academic years from the date that you first step foot into a classroom to complete your 4 years of playing eligibility. Exceptions have to be cleared by the NCAA, which is why you might hear of a 6th year sometimes. Regardless, you can only play 4 seasons.

[KSiordia66]

And that Itan kid from California. Is he still coming?




Itan Chevara could probably man handle the whole league by himself, well not probably he could manhandle the whole league by himself if he ever joins up

[theslapshoter]

Sorry i don't go answer at your ask, excuse my english i'm a frenchie who play Roller In Line Hockey in france in the middle national Division and i come in Columbus (Ohio) from june 23 to july 25. I'm curious and i would like to see an Roller In Line Hockey Practice at Columbus and why not if it's possible try. I would Like know where, when and how i could see a RILH Practice. Thank for your quote and sorry to used this subject for this ask. while waiting your answers.

[Patn Lawton]

Does anyone speak French? I am hoping someone does and could talk to this person via PM or something to help him.

[theslapshoter]

hey you can answer in english i read and unterstand it (after read it during 20min lol) but you can don't worry i will understand. And if i don't understand it i have a translator. thanks you to want help me it's nice with you. i wait
impatiently your answer. The frenchie who played today in National 3 and won his match 8-7 lol;)

[Patn Lawton]

Are you visiting a college that has a roller hockey team? Or is there a pro area in that team you wanted to see?

[CUDangled]

I have a mild objection to the 5 year rule. How many players in the nation does this REALLY effect? And of those players that would want to play 5+ years, I would imagine that most of them have evolved into a valuable memeber in the team's organizational structure (Mackert for example w/ MSU).

If you are trying to stop people from enrolling in a school simply to play for the RH team, I understand that, but the min credit requirements has pretty much taken care of that. Back in the day, you could play if you were an employee of the school.

My point is this, since we are a sport that is still in the infant stages of growth, why would be "rule out" some of the older/more experienced talent from our league. We need to keep them around to share their experiences with the teams/leagues to help us continue to grow.

After all, how many players TRULY are effected by this? And if this sport were to even grow to the point where it is considered for NCAA affiliation, it will be backed by an infrastructure to support it. Until then, lets keep the "grandpas" around for support.

[James Lambert]

And if this sport were to even grow to the point where it is considered for NCAA affiliation, it will be backed by an infrastructure to support it.

(emphasis added.)

That would rule out Lindenwood, since they're an NAIA school.

(Unless I'm missing someone, according to this list (http://naia.cstv.com/member-services/about/members.htm) the only other NCRHA school whose athletics are NAIA is Embry-Riddle. Everyone else is NCAA.)

It is what it is.

So...NCAA: never gonna happen.

That's why the NCRHA needs to govern strictly, and must be operated with integrity, class, transparency, consistency, and fairness. Because it's all we've got, and the hope is that it's all we're ever going to need.

Screw the NCAA anyway. They're more concerned with enriching the likes of Ohio State, Texas, Florida, and Notre Dame....and ESPN/ABC, Fox, and CBS...than with competitive integrity.

[Leaferguy]

So...NCAA: never gonna happen.
I'm all for optimism, but I have to agree here.

[GoRangrHky]

You're saying that NCAA is never going to happen because Lindenwood couldn't be in it? I mena I can make a laundry list of reasons why it won't be, but believe me, THAT'S not the reason.

We really need to stop looking at NCAA as the immediate goal, and in the mean time grow as a club sport. Look at all these other non-NCAA sports that are currently operating on a level 10x higher than us. Ultimate, for example, had it's national championships on CSTV this year. Add on to that list:
snowboarding
kayaking
adventure racing
wakeboarding
flowboarding
boxing
weightlifting
beach volleyball
FILM SCHOOL
COLLEGE BAND

All of those sports (and non-sports) will have their national championships on CSTV this year. And they all made themselves look professional, there were sponsors GALORE, and the events look well done. I think that THIS is the direction we need to be headed in. Go to http://www.cstv.com/thecollegiatenationals/ for more info on this stuff. It starts May 12 on CSTV, and I'm sure will run for most of the summer.

And if you look at other sports, such as squash, equestrian, chess, and ultimate, they all have stories and articles up there, written mostly by students from the schools that are participating.

Forget NCAA, playing in 10,000 seat arenas, and scholarships for everyone, and let's start with promoting what we currently ARE. This is not to say that we need to be on television this upcoming year or anything, but there's no reason why we can not have people submitting articles to websites like CSTV.com and other outlets like that.

[CUDangled]

If it isn't ever going to happen...that is fine, but we still need to set a goal that we strive for. Maybe it isn't NCAA, but we could benchmark what they have done to create our own blend.

The point is, if our model is maintain the "status quo", that sucks. Not because what we have isn't good, but because we aren't working towards the bigger/better goal, whatever that may be. Be happy with what we have today, but set goals for tomorrow and then achieve them.

[GoRangrHky]

Oh, I totally agree. I do NOT want us jsut to stay where we are. However, I think that we need to set realistic goals. Because if all we say is 'let's make this NCAA', we all in the back of our minds are saying 'that's never going to happen', and it won't. But if we say 'let's do waht this OTHER club sport is doing', I think we all be slightly more motivated by having a realistic goal.

[Leaferguy]

What AJ said is what I what I was going to state in my post, but I had to run to a meeting.

We need to grow within our own structure. This means compliance across the board from all teams, and it needs to come from the NCRHA (read: top down, not member up). As a club President, I agree with much of what the ECRHA has proposed as far as divisions go next year. I feel as though every school that competes at this level needs to be a DI school (by the ECRHA definitions), as outlined below (from the doc posted by Mike):

Requirements Outline
● Must have full matching home and away jerseys
● Must have full matching pants (not predominant color)
● Must have matching color helmets
● Must have a non-playing, USA Hockey InLine insured coach wearing
professional attire behind the bench for all games
● 2008-2009 - Must have matching predominant color gloves
● 2008-2009 – All coaches must have USA Hockey InLine Coaching
certification

I understand that the financial responsibility for getting a lot of these can be overwhelming, but small steps over the next three years by all members of all divisions and regions can make it happen.

As far as the NCAA issue goes - I get somewhat frustrated when I see NCAA mentioned because there is indeed a laundry list of reasons it will not happen in the next 20-30 years, so there's no real reason to wait for it to happen. We have, as a national organization, numerous issues that can be addressed that are much more important in the overall scheme of things.

I think the league needs to look at improving the organization of its member-programs, be it through incentive or restriction-based programs. Again, I point back to the ECRHA timeline and outline set forth at the ACC meeting as a good reference. Put something like that in place for 3-5 years down the road at the most. The next issue IMHO is revenue. Perhaps start looking into non-collegiate tournaments on the same weekends as our games at cooperative rinks. Attract sponsors, big or small, and give away reasonable prizes. Get both kids and adults out there and sandwich our best teams' games in between. I can keep going with irrational or poorly-thought-out ideas, but the general thought would be to take small steps on a consistent basis.

The biggest issue is that this stuff eventually WILL fall back onto the clubs. They need to get out into the community and work with kids, adults, whomever. Hockey College, for instance, is a great thing that I know a lot of guys do on a consistent basis. I did my first one at Nats and now I'm hooked. The clubs need to consistently find ways to be their own best advocates in their respective schools. Get in touch with the school newspaper, local newspaper, local media outlets, etc. We were fortunate enough to get the school newspaper to do two or three articles on us this year. That alone was enough to at least let people know our club exists, drawing out a little more talent from the population.


I understand that this is a quickly written and worded little post, so please don't tear me apart too badly :D

[GripperWheels]

Right on! Back in the day employees of the school could play.

I agree credits have fixed that, Abolish the 5 year rule. Focus on playing the game. Show the crowd and the kids a good time and they will come back.
Mackert, Donte' and Koslowski were good for the league. Keep the players in school and let them graduate in there own time while working.
We are the BEST, present the best product or all the more rules keep the good veteran players out of the game.

MSU did not play Jung because of another rule that kept him out for Nationals and he was the leading the country in points years past. If the school says he is eleigible for the club sport than who are we to rule against the Universities.

[KillinAintShe]

abolishing the 5 year rule is a crock. that would be a terrible move for the NCRHA.

[CUDangled]

abolishing the 5 year rule is a crock. that would be a terrible move for the NCRHA.

For those of us that don't see the 5 year as problem, what issues do you have with it? I cannot think of an example where someone has hurt the league by playing too long.

After all, you are meeting the academic requirements (min credits) and you are still in school after 5 years, most likely you are in grad school.

Thanks.

[paddymac]

I'm not sure meeting the minimum credit requirement is enough. Someone could register for classes and never go. Sure it's a waste of money, but I'm sure it's happend. When will we see a minimum GPA requirement? Lets not forget the "student" part of student atheletes.

[Leaferguy]

I'm not sure meeting the minimum credit requirement is enough. Someone could register for classes and never go. Sure it's a waste of money, but I'm sure it's happend. When will we see a minimum GPA requirement? Lets not forget the "student" part of student atheletes.
How does that work, exactly? I've never been subject to one, but I know that my Drexel GPA wouldn't equal my Cornell GPA.

[CUDangled]

I think we are getting a little carried away with the extremes here. How many people are going to sign up for classes and then not go, just to play hockey? And then, how many semesters are you going to be able to do that for before your school kicks you out? If 5 people nationwide did that, I would be amazed. Now compare that to the number of true leaders this league could potentially lose with the 5 year rule.

If we aren't trying to emulate the NCAA rules because "we will never be NCAA", then lets tailor our rules towards anything that will promote growth.

I still can't see any positive in the 5 year rule except for the extreme case mentioned above. Lets worry about what happens the majority of the time, not the minority of the time.

And if you are truly worried about people signing up for classes and then not attending, then propose that registration verification is done more than once a semester.

[MAmato]

I can count the number of guys in the ECRHA on one hand who, had CRHL years counted towards NCRHA eligibility, would not be eligible for next year:

- Pat Lawton, the guy who didn't really build Brockport into a powerhouse team and certainly didn't, oddly, make my school's team better due to his hard work
- George Lewis, a Ph.D student who is clearly just dragging out his studies so he can play roller hockey
- Mike Burke, a guy who has done very little for the league over his past twenty years in the league
- Rozey, who has left Maryland as one of the biggest laughingstock programs around.
- AJ Frey, who has had nothing to do with Hofstra's dominance over the past few years

Wait a god damned minute, those guys have all advanced the sport by a country mile. We want to prevent these guys from playing? That's crazy, but then again, we have some yokel spouting off that there's a possibility that someone would pay untold thousands of dollars to go to school part time or not go to classes just so they could play collegiate roller hockey. Holy friggin' smokes!

The 5 year rule is inane and I have yet to see a good argument against it that couldn't be solved either through careful wording of the rules or stipulations on the definition of full time, if you want to go that route. Frankly, so long as the school you go to considers you a student and you pay an activities fee or whatever the hell you jerks at other schools have to pay, you should be NCRHA eligible. Simple as that.


How does that work, exactly? I've never been subject to one, but I know that my Drexel GPA wouldn't equal my Cornell GPA.Five bucks says it would be higher. I, for one, would love to see the day when my school isn't thought of as the best academic school in the ECRHA (which it arguably isn't) and more along the lines of one of the better programs (both academically and hockey-ally) in the league.

[GripperWheels]

Bravo!!!! Best post yet. Lets grow our sport not make it a luke warm house league. I suggest next year that you choose a division. If you want to play the hardest hockey play Division one. Let all the rest play down in a lower division for recreation and the teams that want to play OPEN, Pro, DIV I or what ever you want to call it play the best hockey available in college inline.:)

[theslapshoter]

Then, someone knowgin a Roller Hockey Club in columbus where i could see a practice? and i search too and hockeystore because in france it's very expensive. I would like know where, when and how i could see a practice in columbus and his around. Thank for your futur answer.

[KillinAintShe]

For those of us that don't see the 5 year as problem, what issues do you have with it? I cannot think of an example where someone has hurt the league by playing too long.

After all, you are meeting the academic requirements (min credits) and you are still in school after 5 years, most likely you are in grad school.

Thanks.

The problem is that the 5 year rule keeps people around too long plain and simple. This is not the pros. Under the 5 year rule, next year will be my last and I am fine with that. If I am that good, there is PIHA.

[MBurke]

The problem is that the 5 year rule keeps people around too long plain and simple. This is not the pros. Under the 5 year rule, next year will be my last and I am fine with that. If I am that good, there is PIHA.

I agree - although the 5-year rule might push me out of playing (yes, I'll still be in school since it's tough to get a third degree while working full-time :p ), most of those names listed above as the possible people we'd "lose" will stay involved regardless of their playing status.

Mackert is coaching Texas, I'll continue working with ECRHA, etc.

[Patn Lawton]

Regardless of all the controversy surrounding eligability, next year will be my 6th season (5th NCRHA season) and I am incredibly lucky to have been given the opportunity to play every season while I was in college. It made school a lot easier to get through. Roller hockey gave me a reason to really look forward to upcoming weekends that I was scheduled to play. At one point I was considering dropping out as a sophomore but continued mainly because I enjoyed playing so much. Now I have graduated with honors from Brockport, and next year will hopefully do the same by finishing my masters degree. Then you can all call me Master Pat.

[Leaferguy]

Drexel is proud of Pat.

[James Lambert]

I agree - although the 5-year rule might push me out of playing (yes, I'll still be in school since it's tough to get a third degree while working full-time :p ), most of those names listed above as the possible people we'd "lose" will stay involved regardless of their playing status.

Mackert is coaching Texas, I'll continue working with ECRHA, etc.

Mackert could play two more years if he wanted to. :)


Then you can all call me Master Pat.

Is that kinda like Project Pat?

[Patn Lawton]

Whats Project Pat? If people with docorates are called Doctor XYZ then with my master's degree I shall be referred to as Master Pat

[MAmato]

Yeah, and Colin MacKenzie coaches our team. Fine, great, super. That those gentlemen won't be done with the league is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to get to the bottom of: where, exactly, does a collegiate club sport get off telling its member universities who can and cannot play? I have the same problem with the ACHA. You don't see other, arguably more successful, college club sports doing this, and given the current niche status of the sport, it seems pretty obvious to me that more bodies equals more support equals more growth, so long as the school in question has the proper infrastructure to support consistent growth.

Any team with good management, coaching, and the right attitude is going to benefit from having volume, as volume enables the team to weather year to year changes and to foster a sense of campus community. Having an old guy like Jorge or Burke is a gigantic boon for a team, as it shows to the world at large what a fantastic program it is since obviously if it wasn't a guy wouldn't be playing anymore as he obtains a graduate degree. I don't agree with a sentiment posted by the Michigan coach in another threat that 5 years stifles development, as a good program is actively trying to replace itself before metriculation. The reason I've been pushing my squad so hard to expand to two teams is because expansion is bound to lead to team betterment; how many years of tenure has exactly jack and crap to do with whether players compete on our A team. The guys on the team know that they are running the risk of recruiting their own replacement, yet they do it anyway with gusto because being part of a team that wins a championship and bringing glory to the team is what is important, not how many minutes they play. Years in the league doesn't come into play.


Whats Project Pat? If people with docorates are called Doctor XYZ then with my master's degree I shall be referred to as Master PatCan I be Bachelor Amato?

[KillinAintShe]

Tha main problem I see with open eligibility is that it actually stifles the growth of a team. If a team knows that players x y and z are coming back next year, they aren't going to be actively recruiting to get fresh blood into the sport.

Everyone is so concerned with "growing the sport" and they don't want to give it up and give someone else their chance... What goalie coming out of high school is going to want to ride the bench behind Burke/Ames/Whoever? (just an example, to put it in perspective for you...). This kid is going to go elsewhere or drop roller hockey, not wait a couple of years for his turn.

Veteran players tend to hold on to their spots over a slightly more skilled rookie...

[RustyPipes27]

Or over a 24-year old grad student...haha.

[rozey57]

I take offense to the comments made my Mark Amato about my program here at Maryland. He shouldn't talk because Cornell has not been too impressive in my opinion over the years. Yes, I agree my program has not been what is was in the past. We were a very strong team from 2001 to 2005, and then lost a huge core of our players following the 2005 season. We were .500 in 05-06, and yes, did have difficulty in 06-07. I am in a very difficult sitation here at Maryland. When you incoming GPA for the university is 3.8, and your SAT score based on the old SAT range is 1400, you are not going to attract top flight hockey players to Maryland. I can not tell you how many players I have lost to Towson, whose requirements are lower than ours, and to other universities because of the academic requirements at Maryland. I have has many players from my youth teams who have wanted to play for me at the college level, but have been turned away by the university.

However, I am committed to bring Maryland back to where we were prior to the 05-06 season. So before you go around sending insults to others, just try to get to Nationals 3 years in a row.

Rozey

P.S. I will write more later on.

[Leaferguy]

Rozey, unless I'm missing a post, I believe Mark was being facetious. It's very unlike him to take a potshot at anyone but himself (and sometimes Pat), and if you read the other comments within the context of his post, you'll see he's actually complementing you :)

[Patn Lawton]

Yes Mark was doing that fictitious thing, he basically listed 3-4 people off the top of his head that have meant a lot to the NCRHA and their respective team, consider it a compliment:)

I am sure when Amato sees this he will feel bad and clear things up, his intentions were not to insult you.

[rozey57]

Ok, I guess I did read the whole text wrong this morning when I was trying to get caugh tup on the mb. I have been out of touch the last few weeks, because of dealing with 25 crazy third graders in my class. They are just wild these days:

Yeah, I agree that my Maryland team was down last season, but I am doing everything in my power to restore the program that Ben Picker, Sep Fraunhoffer, and I started back in 1998. Next year will be my 10th season as a part of the Maryland Roller Hockey team, the first as a players (98-99) and since I have been the coach and even served as player coach in 05-06. I have even been in the ECRHA longer than Burke, damn.

[GoRangrHky]

Yeah, Rozey, the guys he listed (me, you, Pat, Burke) all obviously were listed as points of reference to programs that have been and are successful, and he was sarcastically noting how we were able to accomplish what we did. Nothing to take offense to when it was actually a compliment...

[MAmato]

Sorry Rosey, I thought it was clear that I respect those players and coaches mentioned and that everything there was about as wrong as possible in order to prove a point. You guys have a GOOD program that ours is hoping to emulate, given that we have many of the same exact problems you guys do in terms of acceptance. We had 4 actively recruited players this year who did not make it in; I'm not going to complain about it because it is what it is and plenty of other schools have the same problems and do very well, as you guys, RIT, Drexel, and a hundred other schools demonstrate.

I'm kind of saddened that you took that little swipe at us, but given that you thought I was swiping at you, it's no big deal. I think we've been doing a fairly good job in terms of growth all things considered, and if we could finally find a goalie (There ya go, leaf) we'll surprise some guys in DII.

Tell ya what, come to our Labor Day tournament next season and I'll buy you a beer for the misunderstanding :)

[GoRangrHky]

Mark you bastard, I can't believe you said something bad about my team!! You're a *$&%*($, AND your pads are too big! Boo you!





Now buy me a beer. :D

[MAmato]

Mark you bastard, I can't believe you said something bad about my team!! You're a *$&%*($, AND your pads are too big! Boo you!





Now buy me a beer. :DCome to the labor day tournament and you get one too :)

[Leaferguy]

I'm buying myself beer right now...

The drexel goalie with the huge head is a sieve and everything is not as it seems.

[GoRangrHky]

You're saying that NCAA is never going to happen because Lindenwood couldn't be in it? I mena I can make a laundry list of reasons why it won't be, but believe me, THAT'S not the reason.

We really need to stop looking at NCAA as the immediate goal, and in the mean time grow as a club sport. Look at all these other non-NCAA sports that are currently operating on a level 10x higher than us. Ultimate, for example, had it's national championships on CSTV this year. Add on to that list:
snowboarding
kayaking
adventure racing
wakeboarding
flowboarding
boxing
weightlifting
beach volleyball
FILM SCHOOL
COLLEGE BAND

All of those sports (and non-sports) will have their national championships on CSTV this year. And they all made themselves look professional, there were sponsors GALORE, and the events look well done. I think that THIS is the direction we need to be headed in. Go to http://www.cstv.com/thecollegiatenationals/ for more info on this stuff. It starts May 12 on CSTV, and I'm sure will run for most of the summer.

And if you look at other sports, such as squash, equestrian, chess, and ultimate, they all have stories and articles up there, written mostly by students from the schools that are participating.

Forget NCAA, playing in 10,000 seat arenas, and scholarships for everyone, and let's start with promoting what we currently ARE. This is not to say that we need to be on television this upcoming year or anything, but there's no reason why we can not have people submitting articles to websites like CSTV.com and other outlets like that.

Not to beat a dead horse here a year later, but we are now officially in worse shape than almost every other club sport out there- http://www.thecollegiatenationals.com/sports/index.php?sport=3

[MBurke]

Not to beat a dead horse here a year later, but we are now officially in worse shape than almost every other club sport out there- http://www.thecollegiatenationals.com/sports/index.php?sport=3

If 'shape' is defined as TV coverage for one event at the end of the year.

There are some things those other organizations do well but few are structured as well as we are in terms of league operations.