View Full Version : Hitting in PIHA?
12-24-2006, 10:58 AM
Excuse me if this topic has been talked about for a while but being new to the PIHA circle I'm finding that the level of physical play in PIHA is so minimal that it at times doesn't even reflect the game of hockey. I understand that there is a difference between Ice and Roller, i've played both, but this is still the sport of hockey. Hitting and physical play is part of that sport. Of course no league is going to allow full contact and thats not what people and players are looking for, but the idea of not being able to body someone out in this sport is so sad to me that it hurts! Being able to take body advantage against another player is a big part of the game and it seems like PIHA rules totally take that away. I'm not saying that the full out hits and runs people take shouldn't be called, but when a D-man stands his ground against an oncoming forward and the forward goes down or vice versa that should not be called, let boys be boys and play hard. I might have a biased view because I do like to take the body and understand how cutting off the angle of a player can affect the play but if you watch some of the greats of this game (and ice of course) you'll see that it can almost be looked at as an art of the game, just as someone w/ great hands controlling a puck can be viewed. I guess what I'm looking for is other peoples view on how and why the league has decided to take such a tykes age group view on hitting and contact in the league.
12-24-2006, 01:43 PM
I was at every game this season for the Express and for the most part I would say the games were called well. Definately very physical. Our first games vs the Lunatics were just about full contact.
12-24-2006, 04:52 PM
StoneHands44, I am going to give my opinion on this subject. I AM NOT a player, I am a Coach, team manager, former rink manager (over 5 years), I also work with Torhs and AAU running Nationals and forming opinions with others to make their rules/tournaments more uniform for all. I have a 14 year old who is a decent player and have been coaching 6 years at the National level.
Of course no league is going to allow full contact and thats not what people and players are looking for, but the idea of not being able to body someone out in this sport is so sad to me that it hurts!
My answer: MLRH allows much more contact then any other league, they allow checking under certain rules/conditions. PIHA along with other leagues who are using USAHIL rules are subscribing to the newest interpretations of rules already on the books trying to take away the body play just for the sake of body play; which will increase the free form moves that people love to watch, as well as showcase the players with great moves, great fakes and hands giving them a great chance to showcase their skills since they cannot be run off the puck by a stand up defenseman who has no speed. With the new interpretations once the player in possession of the puck gets past the defender, the defenders only choice is to find an angle of attack to beat the player to the next spot on the floor (if that makes sense). Using you stick to lift his from behind MAY create a penalty that never was called before; placing your stcik blade over the puck controllers blade from behind to infringeme on their ability to pass or shoot is also a penalty now and finally if you lift the stick to close to the hands; or hit the body above the waste you will find yourself with a 2 minutes rest in the penalty box.
Being able to take body advantage against another player is a big part of the game and it seems like PIHA rules totally take that away.
It is not PIHA rules necessarily, but the new interpretation of the rules the USAHIL and NHL are using to make the games flow better. Taking away the nuetral zone trap type play. and taking away physical teams equalizer against more skilled faster teams.
I'm not saying that the full out hits and runs people take shouldn't be called, but when a D-man stands his ground against an oncoming forward and the forward goes down or vice versa that should not be called, let boys be boys and play hard.
My answer: If the defenseman stands his ground and makes no attempt at playing the puck, it is the definition of interference and should be called as such.
If the player without possession of the puck pins the player with possession against the boards, making no attempt to play the puck that is also interference or at least a hold; it is not good defensive play.
If the player holding a defensive position interferes with the progress of a player moving forward even without possession of the puck; technically that is interference or a "pick" depending on the flow of the game at that time.
12-26-2006, 01:25 AM
Actually interference is supposed to be called on a player without the puck. That is why it is interference.I agree that if a defender stands up and plays the man that should not be a penalty. If you "check" said forward then yes it is a penalty but there is a huge difference in checking and playing the man .If you don't hook,hold,rough,spear,elbow,etc it can't be a penalty if you have position and the other player has the puck. Also if i ever see a penalty because someone gets their stick lifted as a player or coach i believe i would go through the roof. That is a great hustle play and should never be penalized it should only be penalized if you get your stick up into the hands.I'm all for the calling of the rules as they were written and calling hooking,holding,slashing etc but i dont think we need to be making up new stuff that doesnt hurt the game. Look at the nhl they didn't "change " the rules they just started enforcing them.
12-26-2006, 08:14 AM
12-26-2006, 10:03 AM
everyone understands the new rules, and some of them i def. think are a good change. But at the same time, things are taken a little to literally. Of course the slashes, hooks and all that annoying stick work should continue to get called, but the borderline stuff, like the lifting of the stick from behind as long as its not in the hands should not get called. like the other poster said, it can be a great hustle play and deserves praise not penalty. Idk, maybe its just an oldtime view of the game, but im getting the feeling that some penalties are being called that even the ref knows are BS. call the stuff that makes a difference in the game.
12-26-2006, 10:09 AM
The point I'm trying to make is that lifting the stick from behind is not a penalty under anyone's rules. It's only called if you either get the hands or hook the player after lifting the stick. Both of those scenarios are very likely to happen if you stop moving your feet and the other player has a step.
I'd be interested to see a video example of this being called improperly.
12-26-2006, 03:07 PM
If everyone took the 10 minutes to watch the video posted on USA hockeys web site it will answer all the questions.
Lifting the stick from behind shouldn't be a penalty anywhere.
The thing about the new standard of play that pisses me off, in which I see it all the time in the NHL is that ref's call hooking penalties just when a player puts his stick NEAR the midsection of another player without impeding his progress......they may just be calling this to get the players to get used to keeping there stick down, but it really "grinds my gears" when they call it and the stick never obstructs with the players movement.
Impeding another players progress with an arm or stick and not making attempts to play the puck are what will and always should be called.
12-26-2006, 05:22 PM
well as we all know every ref calls every game differently.... in my opinion with the new rules you should be allowed to play more body... the way they are supposed to be calling it now doesn't allow players to touch each other... so how do you slow them down? and what is the point of having defenseman, to swing there stick to poke the puck away? and even that gets called as a slash.... every ref in the league needs to be somewhat on the same page for this to work... our opening weekend, they called everything... there were way too many penalties called, then last weekend against the Ants the only call they made for all the games was hooking, it was basically full contact for 4 games...
12-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Please read my previous posts regarding the New Standard and body contact. The New Standard has nothing to do with "hitting".
The short story---there is no checking (hitting) in PIHA. That doesn't mean there is no contact. A defensemen "bodying up" an oncoming opponent, angling, or using postional advantage should not be a penalty.
I have answered all of the concerns posted in this thread in other threads about the New Standard.
Just for you info---when watching the USA Hockey New Standard video, disregard any references to hitting or checking, this is an ice hockey video. References to stick fouls and interference do apply.
Don Frank, Head Referee PIHA Mason Dixon Division
i honestly think the toleration for body contact has gone up this year in piha. it has definitely been a little more physical but the stickwork is being called tighter...exactly what the rule change is designed for. while i don't agree with every call (who does?) i think the officials have done a nice job so far.
12-27-2006, 01:30 PM
Billy K makes a very good point about the new rules. The refs should allow more body contact, as the rules were intended for a game where the was checking. Depending on who you refs are depends on how you are allowed to play the game.
I personally dont think all the penalties have added that much more scoring to games. There are going to be growing pains until all refs and players fully understand how the rules should be enforced. It is my opinion that the game was fine without the enforcement of the standards of play. Some of the penalties being called render a defensive player somewhat useless, especially if refs are calling body contact. In the northeast I think the refs are struggling with picks. Other than that it has been better than I expected.
Hope everyone had a good holiday and be safe for New Year's.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.