PIHA Rules

[Troho9]

Is there a PIHA rulebook anywhere that we can view it or was it distributed to the team owners and GM's?

[ref'n'roll]

I distributed the 2007 PIHA Rulebook, scoresheet, roster sign in sheet, and incident reports to all Divisional Reps this past Monday. I will look into getting it posted on the PIHA website.

I will attach them here in the meantime. If you cannot open the file, or have any specific questions, send me a PM and I will get it to you.

There are some variations including the additional option of a Double Minor penalty for most fouls, face-off location (we use the center red line on the "H" for high face-offs), and our Overtime format. Rules that vary from other rulebooks (AAU or USAHIL) are highlighted.


Thank you.

Don Frank, Head Referee, PIHA Mason Dixon Division

[Button11]

refn'roll...its nice to see you are taking an active role in advising the players and members of this site on the new rules and expectations. This might be a good place for me to pose a few questions for your clarification. This way, everyone subscribed to this site can see your response. Just a few points, if you could clarify it would be much appreciated...FYI, I just watched the video so my questions are based on that and some of your text....

1. I noticed there is a much mention of "body contact" or "body positioning", some mention of legally using your body etc. Does this mean ALL of the refs are allowing body contact? To what degree? More then previous years? Or is this going to be one of those "discretionary calls" which discretion may vary based on the officials personal ability, interpretation of the game, experience etc.

2. Stick in fractions, I full agree with hooking and slashing THE BODY and even the UPPER PART of the stick.....does this mean we are aloud to pick players pockets from behind,,,,maybe repeatedly and quickly playing their stick agressively on the LOWER part of their stick? IT IS IMPORTANT to mention, this would include....IF the player is a weak skater, and one picks anothers pocket and the puck carrier falls...is this a penalty because that specific player was impeeded, or is this left go because the stick was played legally?????????????

Related....are we aloud to wedge the puck carriers stick? Meaning, from behind reach in with one hand to the lower part of the offensive stick and use the offensive players body as a hinge to lift their stick?

Related, this often occurs on power plays when a player is coasting the perimiter....is the defensive player permitted to play the lower portion of the offensive players stick from in front of them....not slashing, but reaching in to "hit" their stick,,,,of course on the "lower" end?

There are many more things, of even greater detail...I am already winded but I think this gets a lot out in the open.....

Refn'roll, thanks for your time.

[ref'n'roll]

I hope you realize that there may not always be simple answers to all your questions. I'll try to answer these questions the best I can:

Q---1. I noticed there is a much mention of "body contact" or "body positioning", some mention of legally using your body etc. Does this mean ALL of the refs are allowing body contact? To what degree? More then previous years? Or is this going to be one of those "discretionary calls" which discretion may vary based on the officials personal ability, interpretation of the game, experience etc.

A---First, you must remember that the USA Hockey video relating to the New Rules Standard is an ice hockey video and any mention of body contact and body checking should be taken with a grain of salt as it relates to inline hockey. Body contact is legal in inline hockey, body checking is not. There are legal ways to play the body involving angling and contact when playing the puck. Legal body contact is defined as contact where the main focus by the player(s) is on the puck and there is no overt action with the arms, hips or shoulder to separate an opponent from the puck.
There are references to body contact, as it relates to inline hockey, that can be taken from the video. One good point is that a player should not be penalized for being faster, smarter or bigger when trying to use their body to play the puck. References on the video to "interference," as it relates to body contact, are also applicable to inline.
One major misconception that I have encountered at the High School and College levels is that the New Standard takes away the body contact in inline hockey. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The majority of issues addressed by the New Standard concern stick fouls and the premise that the stick should only be used for playing the puck. Holding, face-off interference and other subtle forms of interference are addressed, as well as acts of intimidation. What I have seen is that teams are being very cautious when playing the body because they are receiving so many other penalties, mostly for stick infractions and holding calls. I feel that this may lead to the misconception that the body contact standard has changed---which it has not.
As far as Official's discretion goes, that naturally varies from referee to referee, just as a players' or teams' attempt/ability to play the body can vary. Our referees are the best available in each region of the nation. We are not using inexperienced or novice referees. We seek out the "best of the best" when it comes to assigning our Officials. While judgement may vary, our Official's personal ability and experience should be some of the best you have encountered at any level.

Q---2. Stick in fractions, I full agree with hooking and slashing THE BODY and even the UPPER PART of the stick.....does this mean we are aloud to pick players pockets from behind,,,,maybe repeatedly and quickly playing their stick agressively on the LOWER part of their stick? IT IS IMPORTANT to mention, this would include....IF the player is a weak skater, and one picks anothers pocket and the puck carrier falls...is this a penalty because that specific player was impeeded, or is this left go because the stick was played legally?????????????

A---The video explains pretty clearly what are legal stick actions. There is also text available on USA Hockey's website that defines these actions.
Yes, you can lift and pin a players stick---on the lower portion of the stick---when playing the puck. You may pick a player's pocket, so to speak, and even continue to use good stick checks on the lower portion of the stick as long it is an attempt to play the puck. This action is legal as long as a hooking motion on the upper portion of the stick, on or near the hands, does not take place.
Playing the stick in such a manner when a player does not have the puck, or simply to impede his progress, is an obvious case of interference.

Q---Related....are we aloud to wedge the puck carriers stick? Meaning, from behind reach in with one hand to the lower part of the offensive stick and use the offensive players body as a hinge to lift their stick?

A---I believe you are talking about a form of stick check, which is legal. The one thing to be careful of in this instance is the use of your free hand. Believe me, experienced officials will be watching that free hand very closely to watch for any type of holding to occur. Also, use of the arm that is still on the stick and bending at the elbow to tie up an opponent is a subtle form of holding that is also addressed on the video.

Q---Related, this often occurs on power plays when a player is coasting the perimiter....is the defensive player permitted to play the lower portion of the offensive players stick from in front of them....not slashing, but reaching in to "hit" their stick,,,,of course on the "lower" end?

A---Again, only when playing the puck. The action you are describing sounds like grounds for an interefernce call, especially if it is used to deny an opponent space or a lane to gain better positioning.

Players and teams are not the only ones who are adjusting to the New Standard---officials are as well. I know that personally I have good games and I have a few bad games. I think that with my experience that I have many more good games than bad. It has taken me about 15-20 games to adjust to the New Standard. Those that know me know that I have always called a very tight game anyways, so that adjustment may have been less for me, but it has been difficult none the less.
I feel that when we officiate at this level that we are here because we are driven to get better and to help improve the game. I have every bit of confidence in our referee staff to handle the challenge of the New Standard. I also have confidence in our players and teams, with their elite ability, that they can adapt as well. We need everyone's support to improve our game through this New Standard.
I encourage everybody to watch the New Rules Standard video and to read PIHA's National Referee-In-Chief Rick Pohlig's post on this topic.

Thank you for the spirited conversation.

Don Frank, Head Referee, PIHA Mason Dixon Division

[AFan99]

I have heard people talking about the new rules quite a bit lately. I wanted to get some opinions from people if they think this was really needed in inline hockey.

It seems that rules are trying to be instituted into inline that were meant to make ice hockey faster and more wide open. Isnt inline already fast and wide open, with no offsides, icing, or checking. I fully agree with what the NHL has done to make the game better. My feeling is with inline being on the defensive is hard enough without being able to check. Most defense in inline is played with minimal body contact then mostly stick checks and yes some clutching and grabbing. I have noticed in NHL games this year referees have backed off some of the enforcement they had last year. They allow more stick checks and do appear to be letting some clutching and grabbing go in the corners. It just seems over the years mistakes made in inline hockey have been when the game is made more like ice hockey.

Would love to hear others comments on this.

It should be interesting to see how games are called.

Thanks
Paul

[NLane]

These are not new rules. It's just enforcing the rules as they are written. It should help the refs in that the "grey" area for hooking and interference is now gone. It is what it is, gents. If you are slow at back checking, oh well! Now you can't put a stick on the opponent as he passes you. I remember a few players from years ago that this rule is going to kill them. Think Gladiators. If you move your feet and play decent positional hockey you shouldn't notice a difference. And I do agree that this belongs in inline as well as ice hockey.

[patb16]

Ok here's a question. Being a defensive player, I deal will players camping out in front of my own net, especially on the penalty kill. Am I now not allowed to tie the opposing players stick up by either lifting or pinning their stick down? or not clear the front of the net? (By 'clear the front of the net' I mean move not check an opposing player in front of the net.

I understand the fact that we want to get away from the hooking, slashing clutching, grabing and etc, but allowing an opposing player to have free reign to screen the goalie and tip-ins seem a little extreme to me.

Please clear this one up for me so I know exactly what I can and cannot do.

[ref'n'roll]

My feeling is with inline being on the defensive is hard enough without being able to check. Most defense in inline is played with minimal body contact then mostly stick checks and yes some clutching and grabbing. I have noticed in NHL games this year referees have backed off some of the enforcement they had last year. They allow more stick checks and do appear to be letting some clutching and grabbing go in the corners. It just seems over the years mistakes made in inline hockey have been when the game is made more like ice hockey.

Well, an exact example of what I was talking about! I am trying to be patient here. The New Rule Standard for inline HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHECKING! I keep hearing this argument over and over again.

And the argument that has to do with not being able to play defense and having to use your stick and clutching and grabbing confuses me the most! If you have been beat and have to hook someone, or grab him, doesn't that mean you are out of positon? And if you are out of position, how do you check someone? I would think you would have to be in good position to check someone.

What I am seeing at the high school and college level in inline, so far, is that defensemen have their sticks on the surface (where they should be) and they are breaking up more plays and this is resulting in a better and faster transition game. Forwards are skating harder to back-check and are offering better puck support. The games I have officiated and seen where teams play to the New Standard are GREAT hockey games! Yes, we still have some stinkers with 15-20 penalties and teams either not knowing what they are doing, or they just refuse to play the new way, but I think most teams are coming to the party and it is making inline (yes, this is possible) faster and more exciting. Believe it or not scoring is not up that much either.

As far as the NHL goes---I have the Center Ice package on my cable sysytem with up to 14 games on some nights. I can usually watch the better part of 4-6 of those games when I am home, usually about 20 a week. I have been officiating for 32 years and hardly ever watch the game as a fan anymore, mostly as an official. I don't see the NHL referees backing off at all, I just think that both the players and officials understand the New Standard better.

In closing, while I had my doubts at first, I think the New Standard is going to be good for inline hockey. Yes there are some struggles and some challenges---but give it a chance and you will play and see some great hockey.

Just my humble opinion,
Don Frank

[ref'n'roll]

Ok here's a question. Being a defensive player, I deal will players camping out in front of my own net, especially on the penalty kill. Am I now not allowed to tie the opposing players stick up by either lifting or pinning their stick down? or not clear the front of the net? (By 'clear the front of the net' I mean move not check an opposing player in front of the net.

I understand the fact that we want to get away from the hooking, slashing clutching, grabing and etc, but allowing an opposing player to have free reign to screen the goalie and tip-ins seem a little extreme to me.

Please clear this one up for me so I know exactly what I can and cannot do.

Using your stick to gain a positional advantage is legal in front of the net, I would say mostly with a pinning type of action. Lifting the stick before the puck is in the area can get you into a tricky situation that may involve hooking, interference or even high-sticking. Putting the stick between the legs is a big no-no, because it is one of the focus points in the New Rule Standard video. Accidental trips caused by a players stick being between an opponents legs will be called as a tripping penalty. Naturally, cross-checking and grabbing/holding are still illegal.


Using your body to move (and as you said, not check) an opponent in front of the net is still legal. You can also guide or steer your opponent with your hand on his upper body, but be careful of grabs/holds and/or pushes that could cause him to fall. My best advice would be to use your body to gain a better positional advantage than your opponent with relation to where the puck is on the floor, not just for the sake of moving him. Have your stick hard on the surface against his. Time your lift of his stick to happen just before or when the puck arrives to take away deflection attempts.

[AFan99]

I am by no means saying when you get beat that you should be able to turn around and hook or clutch someone. The rules were made for a game that includes body checking. Being a defenseman in both ice and inline, you play it a bit differently knowing you can hit someone. I am more concerned about what referees are going to call in regards to stick checks. For example a good defenseman once close enough to a oncoming forward will put his stick between their legs to reduce later movement of that player. This has been taught for years as defense 101, are referees going to start calling that? If so you limit a defenseman even more and in inline he is already limted because of no checking. Another defensive favorite is to stick check the forward as he is going to shoot. Just a little glance of stick to stick contact will throw a shot off. Will that be called slashing now?

I am all for the calling of the clutching, grabbing, and hooking, but in inline players are already limited due to no checking. So taking some of the other things away is really limiting the way some can defend their space as mentioned in the prior post.

I do disagree with you on the NHL games as last year every bit of contact made by a defender with his stick seemed to be called. It appears this year they are calling less of that as to give the defender more ability to defend and offessive play.

The main point is I dont think people are saying the New Standards have anything to do with checking, but they were meant for a game were checking is a huge part and the main point of defense. Trying to call inline games that strict where checking is not allowed is of concern to some people, but then again maybe people will learn to use body contact within the rules to their advantage.

Thanks
Paul

[patb16]

thanks... that pretty much clears it up for me.

[ref'n'roll]

Paul---you made some really valid points. My best suggestion would be to go to usahockey.com and watch the New Rule Standard video, it is very insightful. The NHL video from last year, at nhl.com is also very helpful.

The stick between the legs move you cite WILL be called when it causes an opponent to fall, accidentally or not, and when used in the "corkscrew" manuever highlighted in the video. I am sorry to say that is a defensive tactic that is no longer valid. My best suggestion is not to put your stick between an opponent's legs. When I see this tactic used during a game I talk to the player to get him to move his stick from between the legs as a warning.

The stick checks that you elude to are completely legal, as long as they are on the lower portion of the stick.

As for the NHL, I guess we will have to agree to diagree (LOL).

[AFan99]

I have seen the video a bunch of times as I coach my kids in ice hockey and have had to attend coaching clinics. I see what you are saying with the corkscrew and the guy falling. I think at this level you wont see those things happen as guys will use the stick enough to gain better body position without committing an infraction.

I do appreciate you clearing that up. Good luck to everyone this weekend.

Thanks
Paul

[icehog]

Thanks for the files Don,
I didn't have those myself, and I need them for this weekend's game in Holbrook.

Looking forward to one great PIHA season.

Dave Gardner
Referee in Chief, PIHA Northeast Division

[Button11]

AFan99....I had not gotten chance to post a response to refn'roll but this was, almost exactly, what my follow up would have been. Limiting a players ability to play the stick is a huge change in inline hockey, the non-contact version anyway. Inline hockey is a game of stickwork because there is no other way to defend against the other team. Many are speaking of "body positioning" which is ok, but how are you to get "body positioning" on a player skating full speed down the floor....full speed for Ying, ok, but full speed for some of the others, is just stupid......I can see it now I will be backchecking and will gain body position on them by lunging at the puck in front of them but in turn making body contact and it will be called. Same with playing the stick, if you play someones stick on the lower portion, especially from behind, in what WILL be seen as a hooking motion, it will be called.

This is just a difficult spot for players, fans, coaches, refs, and the like. ALL of this said, I am a HUGE fan of taking out holding, slashing and hooking ON THE BODY/ARMS/LEGS OF ANY PLAYER! I just fear it will not be correctly identified.

[ref'n'roll]

The text concerning playing the stick and hooking on the usahockey.com site specifically talks about turning over the blade, on the lower prtion of the stick, and pinning the stick. This a legal action and we have intructed our Officials as much. The hooking action should only be called when it is on or near the hands, on the upper portion of the stick. You may see this called in other levels, by more inexperienced referees. I would hope you are not going to see this called at this level.

We have been working hard to educate our Officials at all levels, which most of you guys don't see. We are working hard to be proactive with all of our Officials in the NCRHA, PIHA, AAU and USAHIL.

I appreciate a thread like this, because it goes a long way in helping the education process. It is also good to hear the views from a players and coaches perspective, and I really appreciate you guys for being so open and respectful as opposed to the whining and complaining we hear sometimes.

Good luck and good hockey to all the PIHA teams this weekend!

Don Frank, Head Referee, PIHA Mason Dixon Division