View Full Version : Dont blame the "Evil Empire"
04-18-2006, 11:19 PM
The Phantoms came a long way to play four games against my team, the Growl this past weekend. The games ended up being, for the most part, four blowouts. The Phantoms played to the final buzzer of every game, and so did we. Now, I can understand why some people would say that coach Flynn should've gave instructions to ease up a bit, but here's the problem with that. Our team uses 3 full lines, with players that fully understand that on any given day they can be a game day scratch. What also presents a problem is that with 3 lines, you're lucky to get out there for 8 minutes a game, which on our team, never happens, unless your on the first unit, which constantly stays out there for longer shifts than the other two lines. I don't think you can expect players who travel a long way to play the games, pull back the reins when the outcome of the game is determined. I do think that you can hope that the winning team doesn't rub it in by making a mockery of the game, or intentionally embarassing the other team. By the way, there wasn't one complaint from any member of the Phantoms organazation, to my knowledge. I hope that the people who are angered by the final scores of the games can see things from the Growls point of view as well. I've been told by someone who was there, that there were no complaints from league officials when the Typhoon used to kick the tar out of the Growl, just a few short years ago. One day it will most surely be the Phantoms turn, hopefully, I'll be long retired by then...lol
04-18-2006, 11:48 PM
Jimmy, very good point, i know as far as i am concerned i couldnt hit water if i fell off a boat in the middle of the ocean. I know that if i dont pick it up that im going to be scratched come playoff time, the Phantoms were great sports about it and nothing got out of hand other then the score. i have been on both sides of blowouts, moreso on the winning side, but i can say that the phantoms handled themselves with more class then i have seen from the sport in a while, maybe it was because we were all too tiered for anything but a handshake at the end of the 4 games saturday. Tough weekend for the Phants going to play 6 games against the top 2 teams in the league, if they win out, they can still slip into the 4th seed and will give us or the typhoon a much closer game then this weekend proved.
i'm not slow, i'm patient
04-19-2006, 02:14 AM
Oh Jimmy... maybe you aren't a classless mf'er after all... i can speak for my team and say that we respect everyone in the growl organization, and we wouldn't expect any team to ease up on another team just to make the score seem closer. We admired the fact that every single player on your team played hard until the the final buzzer, and definately don't have any hard feelings towards the beatings you gave us. If this is supposed to be a professional league, there is no reason why any team shouldn't do everything to win by as many goals as possible. If it were the other way around, we would have tried to fill up the scoresheet as much as possible. And we aren't the type of team that would embarrass itself by playing dirty when the score may be out of hand. Losing by as much as we did is bad enough, and we obviously have more important things to work on than starting fights or taking cheap shots. We wish we could have given you guys a tougher test this past weekend, but if we can scratch our way into the playoffs, you will definately see a much different team in the first round. Good luck the rest of the way.
p.s. - bill, don't feel bad, im sure you can still shoot better than jimmy on his best day...
"I've been told by someone who was there, that there were no complaints from league officials when the Typhoon used to kick the tar out of the Growl."
that's interesting.the whole situation actually. i think pretty much anyone can attest to what i'm about to say. the typhoon as an organization has never run up the score on anyone, the growl included. if we were up by 4, 5, 6 goals the top line would sit or play sparingly. hell, there were times when we didn't see the floor in the second half and a few times we sat out full games. i'm not sure where you were going with that statement about us kicking the tar out of the growl, but it definitely wasn't done intentionally. also, 17-1...c'mon. i understand everyone wants to play and get their points, but there's not much class in that. maybe i just look at things a bit differently. just an opinion. good luck this weeeknd.
04-19-2006, 11:07 AM
steve while i do agree with you about 99% because i have seen you guys ease up on teams, its tough when we have all 3 lines firing ya know? i mean its tough to drive 2 hours and just take it easy, i do understand what you are saying though 17 - 1 in a 24 minute game is a little out of hand, the score could have been a lot worse if the goalie didnt rob me 400 times this past weekend.
also steve pm me your cell # again, i lost my phone a while back and dont have it i gotta talk to you about narch.
i'm not slow, i'm patient
i do know what you are saying, i just didn't like the typhoon reference.
04-19-2006, 01:42 PM
Well, I did my part in not running up any scores. Didn't anybody see how many times I ... uh .. intentionally ... missed the net??????
04-19-2006, 03:10 PM
gotcha i see where you are coming from, i've seen you guys ease up on teams before
i'm not slow, i'm patient
04-19-2006, 03:23 PM
hey ttplayer, very well put. just looking over the stats, scoring 7 goals in the last 3 minutes when you are already up 10-1 doesn't look like you are holding back. i don't know how other teams in the east feel but it looks like the growl already have their tickets to colorado booked.
04-19-2006, 04:06 PM
I never said we were holding back, just playing every shift the same way. I think the Phantoms would've been insulted, and rightly so, I might add, if we had played any other way. I also would like to point out, that while confident, with the team we have, we don't take any team for granted. We are fully aware that any team that makes the playoffs has a chance to represent the east in the finals. I guess that's why I feel your statement about us having our tickets for Colorado booked is off the mark.
04-19-2006, 04:51 PM
You of all people should know that the Growl don't take any teams lightly. We lost to the Inferno last year, after crushing them the day before which served as a great lesson to a lot of players on the Growl. There was also game 1 of the finals, which is always in the back of our minds. With some of the talent in this league, it is never wise to assume anything, and we dont !!!.
04-19-2006, 05:50 PM
Here are my two cents on the matter. I spoke with Ying about this very topic when we were at the all-star break. A significant amount of blame should rest of the phantoms shoulders for sitting in a box once they get down by a few goals. This happened repeatedly in Pittsburgh and again this past weekend. There was absolutely no interest in a fore-check by the Phantoms as they would not pressure our guys at all, as they choose to play a box the second we would get possession of the puck. Repeatedly there were times when they would simply dump the puck and resume their stationary postion in a box.
However I as the coach was not about to ask my players to pull it back because they all feel they dont get enough rink time as we were already rotating players in and out of the lineup due to an over-full bench.
Also I know our first line was rather hot about another incident with 55 and since he was scratched for the final game I think they choose to unfortunitely take it out on the scoreboard.
We played these game no different then we did against teams that the Phantoms play very tight or have even beaten. In my opinion had they pressured us at all and not sat in a passive box, the score would no have gotten out of hand.
04-19-2006, 07:11 PM
proven in the third game when they did that and it was close till they got away from the forechecking in the second half... it was i think 6-4 at one point? maybe 5-3...
i'm not slow, i'm patient
04-19-2006, 07:23 PM
well the last game was a little bit of a retaliation from one player being a healthy scratch for who knows what reason, but as for us having our plane tickets booked? i think thats a bold statement from a "fan".
unless you are in the locker room with us, you really do not know what we are thinking or planning, is it in the back of our minds? it better be we are 21-1, BUT we know we have yet to play our best competition in the typhoon, plus once the playoffs are here everything is up in the air.
for example 2 seasons ago my team (extremes) pretty much coasted along with the typhoon through the regular season. We played Jimmy and the minutemen, who we dominated more then once during the season, well they gave us one hell of a game and pulled off the upset winning in double overtime.
This goes to show, anything is possible, the same with us winning last season, we were not a 1 seed, we were the 2 seed and played 5 games in one day to win the whole thing... sorry but that statement kind of hit me on a personal level.
i'm not slow, i'm patient
04-19-2006, 08:26 PM
All I have to say is ... when is the last time you heard of a team in any other pro sport "ease up" on their opponents?
So many other threads on this messageboard deal with how to take the sport to the pro level. Well, if this league is to be truly pro, that means we need to play as pros, which also means taking the good with the bad. It's not a question of embarrassing anybody or what not ... it's about sustaining a pro-level quality of play. Not too unlike the beating your mom gave you for doing something wrong as a child, teams will learn from bad experiences and these teams, the level of play and the league will grow to be better as a result.
I certainly remember being trounced as a member of MLRH and PIHA teams. I always viewed it as a true learning experience - a 'correction' by those who knew more than I did - and I now view these experiences as the main reason I'm still fortunate enough to be hanging around with you guys.
04-19-2006, 08:58 PM
I really don't like getting into this stuff but just a few of my thoughts... I am proud of the way our guys fought this past weekend and none of us are discouraged about our or the leagues future. To my knowledge, none of our players or staff did any complaining on or off the rink. We knew what we're getting into before the trip. Unfortunately we have a tought time competing against the top two teams in our conference. We've done well against all of the other teams (why were in the play-off race) and those teams seem to compete well against the york and philly.... for some reason we simply can't play against those guys yet. I am very happy with how we've done as an organization in our first year and am confident that hockey in western pa will continue to grow with PIHA.... As for the box...After getting beaten the way we did this past weekend we decided to use the box in an effort to keep the scores low. Obviously, it wasn't the right strategy (And I take responcibility for the mistakes). Bottom line, we had 2 of our top 6 or 7 scorers and knew we were up against it... keeping the scores reasonable was on of our main goals... we have no hard feelings for the Growl or Typhoon... they are two model organizations for the league and deserve to be where they are.
We will look to play hard this next weekend and finish strong.
One question though..... If the Growl are the Evil Empire, does that make Flynn the Emperor and Vivona Darth Vader? Or is it the other way around?? lol.
"The defenseman formerly known as #11"
04-19-2006, 11:05 PM
My question is why was this thread brought up or started?? I can see applauding each others team for the games they played and what have you but i dont understand why it was even brought up. I didnt see anybody from the Phantoms complaining so it leaves no reason for this to start. Now if the Phantoms complained about running up the score then this defense of the Growl would make sense.
"Only God saves more than Yokes"
so, because you guys were upset with a player that wasn't playing, you rang up 17 on the other guys? i guess i just have a different mentality. the box definitely didn't help in the scores of the games, but 7 goals in the last 3 minutes against a dead tired team. again, i guess it's a different mentality.
04-20-2006, 12:10 PM
I don't blame the Phantoms at all. Trying to keep the scores down, while missing a few of their top players, was the right game plan to have. The fact that it didn't work out, has nothing to do with the idea itself. As a matter of fact, looking back on the way the goals were scored, I think there were plenty of 2 on 1 goals when the Phantoms were caught on transition, therefore, I don't think it's accurate to say they stayed in a box the whole day. As for the first line taking it out on the scoreboard, rather than Dave Berkowitz, I think that's also inaccurate. The Phantoms were without their most imposing physical player, in Nate Scharrf. If he was there, I'm sure they would've felt comfortable dressing anybody they wanted. The coaching staff of the Phantoms scratched Dave because they knew he wasn't going to make a huge difference in the final outcome, and they wanted to avoid any confrontations where they might lose a key player to a suspension as they push for the final playoff spot. I give them a lot of credit to have that type of foresight during a diffucult time. Our first line is the best line in the league. They crave goals when they're out there, and sometimes stay out there to long when they don't get one. It wouldn't have mattered if Dave was out there, or not, they were never going to take their foot off the peedle. Part of me can't blame them. The few fans that come out to watch our home games want to see a show, not a game of keep away. I'm sure that the Phantoms would've been very mad if the level of play dropped off to the point where it was obvious that we weren't trying to score. I know I would, if I played with them.
professional? 7 goals in the last 3 minutes against a team that played 6 games in less than 24 hours against 2 of the best in the eastern conference? that's not what i would call it. i'm not trying to make enemies here and i like each and every one of you but i have a very strong opinion about this and this is the only public forum i have to voice it. again, i guess it's just a different mentality.
04-20-2006, 01:16 PM
chuckles to myself. boys boys boys, the important question is at this point....WHEN IS THE NEXT BEEF N BEER??
Oh and for the record I think Flynner would be Darth Vader. Remember when Vader's helmet came off?
When you lose say little. When you win say less.
04-20-2006, 01:26 PM
And isn't baseball the only other "pro" sport that has 2 games in one day? The only time a score needs to be "extended" is if playoff spots are determined by goals for and against. It could make a big difference (TORHS comes to mind) where a team is seeded. The Carolina Crunch goalie once took 71 shots against him in a MLRH game, not OT either. Goals were needed by the opposing team for playoff spot.
04-20-2006, 01:45 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth, Todd. I was just about to point out that Darth Vader was lacking hair, like Flynner. Nice to see someone thinks like me on this board...lol
04-20-2006, 04:45 PM
Being one of the two very exhausted goalies during the past weekend, I can honestly say that the scores from all the games, although extremely high, were not insulting. The fact is that the Growl and the Typhoon are very talented teams and our team (phantoms) has alot of growing to do before we are at that level. With that in mind, it should be said that these are the teams that inspire our team to grow. I felt that the Growl handled their business the same that any other team in the league would have, and that should be commended. So from one STILL very tired goalie to a great example of what Pro hockey should stand for...nice job guyz, but dont get to comfortable in that drivers seat - We'll be back very soon!
-Chuck Lavera 34
04-20-2006, 05:09 PM
Chuckles... Your first IHC post! You never forget your first!
"The defenseman formerly known as #11"
04-20-2006, 09:29 PM
I didn't realize that teams were supposed to take into account the amount of games the opposing players played when deciding how to play them. :)
C'mon Ying! Something tells me that the NJ Devils didn't do that when playing the Flyers a day after they battled with the Rangers last weekend!
If you paid to watch a hockey game, you want to be entertained. I don't want to pay money to watch Alex Ovechkin stop scoring because his team is killing the opponent. I wanna see that kid score and score and score! If the other team is embarrassed by the way they're scored upon, they'll be encouraged to make positive changes, won't they? Good for everybody involved.
i'm pretty much done with this topic. there obviously is a big difference in opinion and mentality and each person is entitled to their own. 7 goals in the last three minutes of a 10-1 game...that is the last thing i will say on this subject.
04-21-2006, 02:37 PM
there have been complaints, but not from the phantoms. there is good reason why jimmy started the topic
04-21-2006, 02:39 PM
Nah Vivona is just a meaningless droid. The force is not to strong with that one.
04-21-2006, 02:43 PM
ouch... that was below the belt i shall be forced to retaliate now.
04-21-2006, 04:22 PM
No longer a virgin to this site
04-21-2006, 04:40 PM
hope McNulty doesnt see this LOL
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