The Future of Professional Inline Hockey

[hockeyburlington]

What do you guys think about the future of Professional Inline Hockey?

BE CANADIAN
PLAY HOCKEY

RYAN HARRISON

[johnny2suede]

I was disappointed to see the disgraceful failure of the IHA. It looks like the league has left a pile of sh#t. Just another classic example of all of us hoping for an unproven entity to somehow make it. I think we are a trusting bunch of souls.

To answer your question, I think professional roller hockey is now an oxymoron.

Please, please, don't respond in any way with anything that has to do with MLRH. Saw it here in California 2 years ago and it was laughable...a total embarrassment to this sport.

[yokes]

Well unfortunatly id have to say that a full on pro paid league is way off!!! PIHA is run great and have been involved for years and shows no signs of slowing down and even though its the one league that shows the greatest chance of eventually paying its players i think that time is far off. Whats the scariest part of this whole thing is that the best players around got together and even offered to play for free to keep a league going and for the good of the sport and it couldnt work. Apparently you have one man who once again puts a bad mark on our sport, i dont know the whole story just goin on the details i read on IHA's website. The MLRH on the other hand has been around now for awhile and seems to always have teams but there is alot of turnover. If the sponser i heard comes through like i hear then it might bring alot of credibilty and publicity to them. But in a whole having played in most of these leagues they will primarily be dedicated players just traveling and playing for the fun and love of the game.

If you dont hit me im not stopping it.

[NoMoreNiceGuy]

You seem to miss the point, it is not always the league, but the team owners. If there were 10 or 12 dedicated owners, any league could make it. MLRH was full pro in 1998 with 14 teams, but in 1999 it was the owners that caused the league fold (some owners refused fly to Denver for a single game). An away game like that cost $10,000 (air fare, buss, hotel, food).

I don't think PIHA was ever set to be a full paying league, from day one, the most they offered was uniforms, equipment and free play.

Besides owner loyalty, the next biggest problem is that there is no place for pro teams to play. For this sport, you need arenas with 2000 to 5000 seats. You can get Nassau County Coliseum for free, but the union contract requires full staffing at a cost of over $30,000 per game. The same applies to many other buildings. Even the Mennen Arena cost over $8000 to rent for one game and only seats 2000.

Most minor league hockey teams now play in arenas with seating for over 8000 fans. The old local arenas are all gone (the old people remember the big wooden sheds in Cherry Hill NJ and Springfield, MA. Then, if you can find such a building, you have to buy a floor (and insulating under floor) and put it in for each game (at a cost of $600 to $1000). This was tried in the old Hershey Arena one summer and the floor had condensation all over the place.

There are a few college arenas that would work, but not the new ones. Allentown has a beautiful arena but it was built for basketball and seats about 4500, but even when you push the seats back at either end, the floor is only 170 feet long.

I am not aware of any dedicated roller hockey arena that seats 2000 or more (and you would need 10 of them) and that is the break even point for a full pro team. If you want to see the proof, I have boxes of research on all this.

[NLane]

I know you can't be talking about the Warriors-Saxons game. It went into overtime and the goalies were standing on their heads to make great saves. Very exciting.

[Stampede]

Bottom line if enough people will not pay to come and watch a roller hockey game then it will NEVER be pro.

What would really take the sport forward is one governing body, who annual registartion fees are paid to. Local leagues in states, from kids to vets. Then a "best of the best" type competetion with money prizes. That would be a spectacle and folks may pay to see it......

Eventually the individual states may generate enough revenue to fund a pro team per state/town, which all the recreational players who are registered would be eligable for.
All the players who register would be given the chance to vote for "x" ammount of players each who would play in this "dream team", this way the personal politics would stay out of it. Votes are counted and the pro team for that area in announced for the season.

Any sponsorship etc would be made to the state e.g. Rink Rat sponsor the New York division, Mission the Californian etc etc to help partial fund the team, with the rest of the money coming from the national body, distributed pro rata to how much each state/region membership contributes to the national picture e.g. New York represents 8% they get 8% of the funds.

If it had one body then the players would have to choose where they wanted to play and couldn't play in 3 different leagues.

E.g of hypothetical finances
100,000 players in US all pay $50 reg fee per year...
Generates $5 million.... which is a whole lot of money.
X ammount is distributed to the regions for the administration costs of the leagues/ refs and X ammount retained to run the pro level league and host competitions with prize money. All players get paid the same, with bonuses for individual performances/team performances.

At grass roots, teams still pay to play games which covers building rental etc.
From the senior division, all the players per region are put on a ballot paper and every registered player to that region votes for the "pro team". These guys are paid to play and have all there equipment paid for etc. Train and play like pro players. If they can't commit to this due to other work commitments then the guy with the next most votes takes his spot. This system would encourage every one in the region to get involved with games as they have a say in who plays & represents them.

I know it's a lot of "what if's", but if this was done it would build the game from the ground up, rather than running before it can walk or running on limited funds.





None of that stinkin' root beer

[hockeyburlington]

In my opinion I don't think we will see a RHI style pro league ever again. The most we will have for the next 10 - 15 years is leagues like the IHA building up then falling down. As you guys say we need the governing bodies of roller hockey to come together....do you really think that will ever happen? Roller hockey is just as big as some sports and we need a pro league/ market where the future stars of roller hockey came come to play, but that will probably never happen.

BE CANADIAN
PLAY HOCKEY

RYAN HARRISON<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hockeyburlington on 10/04/05 02:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[Brooklynite10]

2 years ago, MLRH was a real good league with the potential of growing and becoming great. Now that the XIHL is out of the picture, I think the MLRH has a chance to put out a good product once again. This might depend on the idea of having 2 divisions. A big problem with these non money making leagues is travel commitment and expenses. Can anyone verify the rumor of having 2 divisions this season is actually true ?

[NoMoreNiceGuy]

The Fire Ants are coming back to MLRH, that was one of the teams from the 1998 pro season.

[hockeyburlington]

The Fire ants plus the Virgina Wings both teams from 1998 this could be good!

BE CANADIAN
PLAY HOCKEY

RYAN HARRISON

[wolves89]

the VA wings played last year.... they got smoked everygame, no offense to them league was just not cut out for them.... whats going to hurt MLRH play is PIHA overlapping, the better players, for the most part play that... last season was a perfect example

and on top of that you are adding 10,000 dollar prize into the mix... i would much rather drive to feasterville to play 2 games, then down to south carolina for 1 terrible game and have to pay for gas and food.

i drove to VA to play them last year... it's in the middle of nowhere, and had to get dressed in a party room... that's not professional

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[SpiderRat]

12 teams, 3 divisions of 4 is what I know so far. Each division, for example, NY, NJ, CT and MA., will play each other in inter-conference play, 3 times each. That will cut down on travel. That makes 9 inter-conference games. To complete the schedule, MA may fly south to play a 2 game series. And so on. Now please, before everyone jumps all over this post, this is just rumored at this point. I do not represent MLRH, this is just what I've heard along the way. I'm sure the MLRH website will detail everything soon. I do know that the North American Champion will travel to Prague for the MLRH World Championships. Like I said before, that beats going to Colorado to split 10g's. At least to me it's better.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[SpiderRat]

Most expansion teams, no matter what the sport, or level, has difficulty their first year. Instead of knocking a team, why can't you give the team and the league a chance. I'm sure there were some PIHA teams that didn't fair well their first year out. Isn't that why the league went to the current format? Two fifteen minute games, played back to back. I believe that format was derived out of games being too lop-sided. You can't score too many goals against a team in fifteen minutes.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[NoMoreNiceGuy]

The wings were just using the name, I believe the fire ants are the original team (but of course, not the same players)

[wolves89]

its actually 2 twelves minute halves, and we scored a bunch of goals in that time... as did every other team in the league

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[wolves89]

the end result of a free trip to prague is quiet appealing, i agree 1000%, BUT its the rest of the season thats not worth it... last season we went to VA with 5 guys and won 19-2... can you please tell me what the point of that game was?? maybe it's me, i just don't see how that helps anyone.

and i would rather fly to colorado and play against brian ying and cj and maybe split up 10 g's then play in prague against an average club team from out there.

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[NLane]

And who's going to pay to go to Co. for the finals? That's a trip. Hotels, airfare, van rental. It was quite an expense.

[minutemen]

PIHA has a sponsor that is going to pay for the teams going to CO.

Morristown Minutemen Pro Minor Hockey Organization.

[NLane]

Cool. That will be great. Makes it so much easier on the players.

[SpiderRat]

That's my point exactly. It's going to cost 10 to get there, and you MIGHT win 10. That leaves a zero balance.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[wolves89]

that why we, the growl, are having fund raisers as we speak

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[wolves89]

so even if that WAS the case, which it won't be, you'd win the same amount as you would at MLRH finals... so what's left, the competition... PIHA is better competition as i said before, i'd rather play in colorado against CJ and Brain, then Prague against a mediocre team.

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[Maskman]

I believe that the finals trip will be paid for by the league.

[minutemen]

The cost for the finals in CO is paid for, Sponsors by the league are picking up the bill. It includes airfare and hotel.

Morristown Minutemen Pro Minor Hockey Organization.

[wolves89]

i'd take a grand each on a 10 player team, wouldn't you?

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[minutemen]

yes I would.

Morristown Minutemen Pro Minor Hockey Organization.

[Stampede]

10 grand for the winners sounds good.....but you've gotta win.
But win or loose, the trip to Prague is still free. So you get a vacation for nothing!

None of that stinkin' root beer

[wolves89]

well win or LOSE, not loose, the colorado trip is free too...

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[SpiderRat]

What an ass. What, are you IHC's new official spell checker. I thought this site was developed for people to voice their opinions, concerns, questions and comments concerning Roller Hockey. Not to be ridiculed or corrected on every post he/she writes. Don't worry "A", I've got your back. See you in the states soon. And don't worry, not all Americans are as rude as this guy.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[NJwerewolves12]

Listen i Agree wiht Wolves89

Do the Sing Sing

[wolves89]

nothing left to bash about PIHA? name calling on the site now?? i never said 2 words about your PIHA bashing... once again "A" was kind of giving it to PIHA. So since this board is pretty split on PIHA and MLRH, i was taking PIHA's side... but i guess now I'm the official spell checker of the board and an ass... thanks for the update on my position in life.


PIHA '06

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[33]

you guys fight like you're married. can't we all just get along?

[wolves89]

lol

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[yokes]

You would know what thats like, wouldnt ya Stevie???

If you dont hit me im not stopping it.

[33]

absolutely!!! yokes, what's going on with mlrh?

[Brooklynite10]

i don't agree with anybody. I would agree if someone said that roller hockey will never grow having 2 leauges seperating our roller hockey community like this. Either season hasn't even started yet and people have issues. It's a damn shame !!!

[BkHdTpShlf]

I have a great idea Ying..how about we all stop writting away on this message board and just rent a rink somewhere and everyone can express their opinions there face to face with everyone instead of hiding behind their keyboard. I have a good feeling many of our local IHC loud mouths and league bashers will be awfully quiet...not to mention that most, if not all of them play in all of the leagues mentioned.

Darrell Interbartolo

[SpiderRat]

Now your talking D.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[wolves89]

to be 100% honest your post just lost me...is your idea to rent a rink out and fight each other over issues that we have with the leagues? i may have misunderstood what you said, but that's what i took from your post... if i didn't misunderstand it, it makes no sense what-so-ever.

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[BkHdTpShlf]

What's so hard to understand about it? Me not filling in your name as one of the big mouths on here? If that's not it..maybe your just having problems with the words. Let me know which ones and I'll help you sound them out.

Darrell Interbartolo

[DannyG]

Nancy:

I apologize that I have ben a personal disappointment to you ever since I said I had a set of concepts that would work some two years ago, or so...

That disclaimer aside, check out www.aagpbl.org, and tell me what you think...the market segment elements particularly intrigue me, as does why it all ended after 12-15 years of success...

I think this comes close to what I am looking at...my target starting date is June 1, 2008.

Lemme know what you think?

Thanks!

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DannyG on 10/14/05 01:08 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[wolves89]

you can easily click on my name and see who i am, it's all in my profile... i don't know how that's hiding behind a computer?

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[NLane]

Sorry, Danny but I don't know to what you are referring? Your reply doesn't match to the one before mine so..??? I'll check the site out, none the less and let you know what I think.
Okay, checked it out-title only. Hope that wasn't a shot at me being a woman! Didn't see anything on the page that would lead me to read what happened to it. Listening to my mother talk, tho, I do know some of the reasons why it failed and it wasn't marketing. Society had certain rules then (Mona Lisa Smiles as an example) and you just couldn't break that barrier. As this applies to roller hockey games I haven't figured out yet Danny but I do know the women of MLRH played in Williamsburg and the games were exciting to watch.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NLane on 10/14/05 07:27 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[RichardGraham]

Hi Wolves,

This post is not directed at you; yours is just the latest on a thread that is starting to degenerate. Let's stop pointing fingers at each other or I'll have to lock the thread. Thanks to all involved! /wtimages/icons/cool.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[33]

it was quiet on this board for a while...now it's getting good.i think we should rename this section after one of the soap operas. what do you think richard?
honestly, i think D's idea is the best. i'm not saying let's rent a rink and fight, but let's play some hockey. all of us play in most of these leagues and tournament series' so let's have some fun on the rink. we'll all see each other out there and i hope we can play the game on the rink and respect each other after.

[wolves89]

sorry richard... i thought it was pointed at me, i just didn't get why

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[wolves89]

it is a soap opera huh? no one likes what i have to say, i guess i need to shut it for a while huh? lol

i'm not slow, i'm patient

[RichardGraham]

Hi Wolves89,

You'll KNOW when it's pointed directly at you. /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[DannyG]

The immediate future of inline hockey is in regionally based leagues. The League must be small enough geographically to limit travel costs. Each team is based in a non major league market. Fan/player image and identification can be promoted and accomplished.

Once regional leagues are established and operated successfully in different parts of the country, inter-region and national level competition can be organized on a limited basis.

Once you cross the line from regional to full national level competition, everything changes, especially the financial factor by a power of ten or so.

National level competition can only be sustained by deep pockets ownership, ancillary trade, and a national television contract. How do you go national when you can't get a tv contract? How do you get a tv contract when you aren't going national? Without deep pockets, national level competition is not possible.

A solid, market-niche-based regional league is a real possibility in most areas of the country...except that most interest comes from hockey people already entrenched and committed to major league market areas. These areas are proven not to work with minor-league (even if full pro minor) sports.

If regional leagues are successful, they might attract deep-pockets, then we go national. The key is successful regional leagues, that actually make money, pay a minimal (okay even if part-time) salary to players, sells merchandise, develops a tradition and a following in their hometown, and might even get a local/regional cable tv deal (for the exposure, there won't be any money involved).

The PIHA and the MLRH already meet several of those criteria. We continue to observe to see how they develop. We continue to look for additional opportunities and locations for other leagues to develop and operate.


<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[33]

no, don't do that. you have a lot of good things to say believe it or not. i, for one, am shocked. LOL. i'm not on either side in this meaningless discussion. i would play in both leagues if there are no conflicts in scheduling as i'm sure you would too. roger, you would too if piha teams were a little closer to you. so, does any of this bickering really matter? let's play hockey, no matter where or what league it's in.

[Brooklynite10]

Well said !

[RichardGraham]

Hi Ryan,

You really started something with this post. I'm going to lock it now because it's gone past two pages. You, or anyone else reading this thread, should feel free to start a new thread on the same topic.

Good job!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central