What Would You Do If...

[USAHIL]

Let's say that you could change or implement two or three "big picture" items that would help grow the game of roller hockey. By grow, I mean both locally at Anytown USA's house league and nationally as well.

Be constructive, be critical. (But please no slamming either - that's not too constructive.) How might USA Hockey InLine, house leagues, rinks, tournament series, manufacturers, etc. figure into your ideas and plans? Be prepared to enter into a dialogue so we can hammer out specifics of your ideas. Let's get a GOOD conversation going that will benefit this sport. We're listening and want your ideas.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[RichardGraham]

Hi Jay,

Great post.

How about an inline hockey "summit" at the next Let's Play Hockey Show in Las Vegas? I think the biggest problem with the sport is that so many people seem to be working at cross purposes, at worst, or in a vacuum, at best.

I really feel that we're at a major crossroads with inline hockey, and if we don't make some good decisions now, we'll all kick ourselves down the line.

If we could all work together to build the sport from the grassroots up, making a bigger pie, it would mean bigger slices of business for everyone.

Thanks for kick-starting the discussion!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[calihockey]

I agree with Rich. A summit must be held, but do not invite just the big names of the sport. You need to have players there whom actually pay for the leagues, tournaments and other costs. I think fragmentation is the worst problem with the sport. We ONE governing body and really push for inclusion into the olympics. We also need support from the governing bodies for the pro leagues and a unification of all the pro leagues. Sometimes we are so fragmented, the sport comes off as a joke to outsiders. I think USA Hockey Inline should form a committee made up of tournament directors, coaches, players and other long time supporters of the sport with the task to help better organize the sport and help promote the pro leagues, inclusion of the sport in the olympics and the creation of a solid grassroots program. Just my two sense.

[Ken]

I started the arena using USAHIL and hosted one of the regional championships-The tourney was run on USAHIL's part fine, but I have issues with the direction USAHIL had on 2 things that affected my business to such a degree-that I stopped supporting them.
1. The magazine that my arena and USAHIL members got each month had ads with prices from many discount outlets. This went to everyone that joined at my arena, and while many people will not buy hockey gear via mail order or the internet, many will use the published prices to price shop the local pro shop. This made margins in the arena pro shops very slim. Arena (Ice and Inline) depend heavily on pro shop sales to supplement league fees, by having ads with prices from shops with no arena affiliation does nothing to grow the sport. If arenas cannot survive-the sport doesn't survive-and the discount retailers will not survive (at least on hockey gear).
I was a sales rep in the Windsurf business through the full boom/bust cycle, and the retail pressure was the same-but more direct. The local pro shop was the place that everyone took lessons, and eventually bought a rig from. Eventually the heavy discounters made it impossible for dealers to profit. Dealers disappeared, and so did the learning centers. The sport today is very small. This seems to be the case in many of the gear intensive sports. A pyramid with no base.
2. The same magazine sold it's mailing list (which included all my players) to the local ice arena, and they sent out a "come play real hockey" flyer to my players.
At that point-for the next 7 years of the business I refused USAHIL's offers to join them. Everytime the USAHIL rep would call to solicit my business-I would repeat the above story. Nothing ever changed.
I cannot believe that arena owners continue to support someone that, in a passive way, is hurting your business. It is time for arena owners to actually form an alliance so that they can have a say in what goes on by these governing bodies.
3. The wars that Regional tournaments have is inexcusable. To reschedule tournament dates just to keep other tournaments from happening. To threaten Arenas that if they host a competitors tournament that they will be blacklisted? This is so counter-productive to the sport and the players. Hello-the players are your customers-without them we all die.
4. So much of promotion, rules, and way of thinking pertains to the tournament level player. That is wrong. That is the peak of the pyramid-and is a very small percentage of total players. A pyramid with a narrow base is no longer a pyramid-it is just a stick with a point on the top--and eventually it will stick you.
New/beginner recreational players are the future of the sport-no matter what age.
I have been out of the loop for a couple of years-if this has changed-GREAT and sorry for the dialog. If it hasn't-IT SHOULD.
I could go on--sorry to rant-but what do I know?

Ken Spencer

Former inline rink owner-10 years
Former sales rep for Bauer and Hyper-6 Years including Pro support for 3 RHI teams during the entire run of RHI

[MDE3]

Excellent analyses....

[USAHIL]

Ken,

I appreciate your feedback, even though it was somewhat negative towards USA Hockey InLine. We are trying to do the best we can for the sport. Sometimes changes are needed and we try to correct those things. Your feedback is needed to help us get better.

The mailing addresses were sold by a clearinghouse that was independent of the magazine. USA Hockey InLine realized that was a problem and we instructed the magazine staff and clearinghouse to stop doing that 4-5 years ago. To my knowledge, it hasn't happened since.

I agree with your comments about the "tournament wars." It doesn't help the sport when tournaments attempt to go head-to-head in an effort to quash each other. For your information, we changed a couple of USA Hockey InLine Regional tournament dates last year at the request of several different tournaments. Although it wasn't the best thing for us, we felt that it was best for the sport.

You are also right about the grassroots vs. elite players. You'll notice that my post was directed towards local leagues as well as nationally. We realize that the sport needs to grow from the roots - without roots, there can be no grass. The purpose of my post was to try and encourage a discussion to figure out some different strategies to help grow the game at all levels.

Thanks again for the feedback.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[Ken]

Jay,
Thanks for the reply.
The tournament wars was not directed at USAHIL-I noted that our tournament was fine-It was directed at the the wars that were going on here in California, and it was the stupidity of tournaments trying of quash each other, to the detriment of the players-Sorry for the confusion.
But, I noticed you skipped commenting on the advertising in the magazine. In other sports the advertisers were allowed to advertise, but were not allowed to post prices. This did not prevent players from shopping and buying from the advertisers, but it lessened the impact of the buyer that walks into the shop, magazine in hand, and price shopped.
I still feel it is wrong to give an arenas members a virtual shopping list from someone that is not trying to bring more players to any arena. this is parasitic, and bad for the sport.
Regarding the mailing list. It was WRONG, I lost players because of it, and the opportunity still exists. I would never pay USAHIL a dime unless USAHIL provided a written statement that it would never happen again. Think about the sanctity of the arenas databases. It is the same as just giving one or all my competitors (inline and ice) my database of members. What arena would do that? It was done, it has been proven.
I was so fed up with USAHIL that it spurred me to explore other alternatives (WHA-RHIA)-I did, and was happy with the results. Finally I found a great partner. I was able to provide excess medical coverage. Compliance issues were much easier and flexible. The cost per player was well under $10 each/year. No, the players didn't get a magazine full of competitors ads, no they don't get decals. But, I didn't have to provide my list of players to anyone. We had other sports at the facility also, and those were covered.
Any arena that wants an alternative can contact me.
My email is in my profile.
USAHIL has been around for over a decade-and NOW they are asking what can be done? Noticed a drop off in memberships? Surprised? Maybe it has something to do with the mentioned parasitic actions in some small part.

[USAHIL]

Ken,

Thanks for your reply. I would like to address a few of your points.

You have our word here on this board that our magazine staff will never again sell or rent our mailing lists - whether directly or through a clearinghouse. If you or anyone would like an official letterhead document stating this, we can send this immediately. Once we were alerted to this issue, the appropriate steps to rectify and correct it were immediately in place and this hasn't happened in at least 4-5 years, nor will it ever again.

A few weeks ago on another thread I posted a brochure of what USA Hockey InLine has done for the sport of inline hockey. These are the programs and services created by this company to better this sport. It illustrates what we have accomplished and what we will continue to do . Attached is the link to the brochure: <http://www.sealweenies.com/pdf/What has USAHIL Done (2004 final).pdf>

There was one comment I would also like to address. You stated "USAHIL has been around for over a decade-and NOW they are asking what can be done?" I respectfully disagree with this statement. We ask the question "What can be done to make this sport better?" every single day in the course of our business. We talk to league directors, rink owners, tournament directors, manufacturers, parents, coaches and players routinely about what we can do to make the sport better. I will agree that this is the first time we have asked "What can be done?" via a message board. We were hesitant in the past because sometimes these threads degenerate into negativity and unproductive discussion. However, we recently decided that we would give it a shot because we recognize that there are many members of this community that could provide us with great input.

Also, we haven't noticed a drop off in membership. In fact, our membership was up significantly for 2004-05.
Ken, we're trying. We're trying to work with as many different organizations as we can. We're trying to find ways to grow the game. We're trying to unify many of the sport's different players. We're trying to do it all in a positive, constructive manner. We're trying to move from fragmentation to unification - everything that is expected of a leader.

We want to remain on these message boards for the reasons illustrated above. To do so, they must remain constructive. We are in a position to move forward for the betterment of inline hockey. We will not move backwards...


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[RichardGraham]

Hi Jay,

Great response.

I especially appreciate you for:

1. Having the courage to post your message on IHC's message board in the first place. I agree that this kind of forum can rapidly degenerate into flame wars, and I try my best to keep that from happening...

2. Taking criticism and responding with detailed facts, and ...

3. Doing everything you've done for the sport of inline hockey, from your days with the Coastal Cup to your current position with USA Hockey InLine. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[DannyG]

This is a reply to all who have viewed this thread, both here, and on the sealweenies board...

I have professionally been involved with the national level state-of-the-business of roller hockey since 1987. At that time, I made contact with AHAUS, and USACRs. I chose not to affiliate with either organization, they didn't have what I believed was necessary to develop the sport for all players.

I next took a look at the national organization scene in 1993. I would have affiliated with NIHA, had they lasted another couple of years.

In 1995, I gave both USARS and USAHIL a thorough examination. At the time, USAHIL was overwhelmingly the better service, and actually had a mission to develop this fledgling sport in a positive direction.

In the past ten years, I have had occasion to discuss national tournament venues, national rules and regulations, player eligibility issues, etc. I have made several individual proposals regarding ways I have thought would make things better for all.

In every case except one, USA Hockey InLine has adopted my proposals, in many of these cases, simply because I pointed it out. In some of the cases, I am sure others were suggesting the same thing, but I do know that this is not the case in every instance.

I have found USA Hockey InLine to be the most responsive organization, and continues to post their mission/vision for all to see. You can also readily observe how well they work toward their mission day-to-day, as well as long term.

We are now waiting for the excitement that Jay has told us is coming. It will be here soon, I have no doubt.

I look forward to working with USAHIL for both the short term and the long term in making our sport better for everybody.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DannyG on 09/12/05 05:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[MDE3]

Just some observations....

I have been involved with hockey ice and inline both in the US and Canada..for more than a few years(maybe 30)....Nowhere is any organization &quot;perfect&quot; nor do any of them ever become immune to criticisms by dissapointed parents, rink owners, players, coaches etc. etc...stating the obvious here....

However the only organization I have experienced first hand that seems to be as close to altruistic in developing the sport, has been USAHIL...and as has been observed..neither is their history without a &quot;self interest agenda&quot; at certain times.

There is enthusiasm and expertise in running tournaments, throughout all the groups, but the closest to a truly professional development I have seen, was from the efforts of the USAHIL organization in their selection camps for USA Juniors and prospects....

In throwing out these comments I must admit to not having experienced State Wars, or recent AAU/USARS developmental efforts, but had previously seen many regionals and nationals from the USARS group, Narch and Tours. My comments are not meant to slight the tireless work by the individuals involved within those other groups, just to share my own limited observations as pertains to efforts which maintain DEVELOPMENTAL credibility.

There is no doubt that competing agendas in this sport at all age and skill levels is the greatest single roadblock to it's growth. However at some point it must be faced.....the business side of running this sport must for a while be subjugated to the need for real growth, internal discipline, and a common structure..and therein lies the rub. There are so many groups/individuals who currently depend on the income from the various tournaments to earn their living.....how can all this be re-structured to fall within a single comprehensive National organization?

Difficult no doubt, but, I believe the key to any one group gaining the confidence of all the other organizations will be their ability to promote a &quot;re-structure&quot; of the financial earnings of all the splintered groups so that they fall under a common earnings umbrella....and the resulting compromise is one that all can agree to work with.

Rink ownwers.....another equally needy group....needed and needy both..without their co-operation and enthusiasm for any program....any chance for success becomes moot. Ultimately this type of re-structuring will help the rink owners, because a broader, more predictable and more frequent playing schedule can be created.....This all must come together as one plan! As was observed so ably earlier..the pyramid must be re-created....

Fom my point of view....the only organization with sufficient parellel experience in doing this....is USAHIL..even though they will be borrowing from ice hockey expertise.....

[shockwave]

Jay,

I think you need to further promote the coaches clinics that you guys started last year. I would suggest you make it more wide-spread and begin offering a "leveled certification" similar to what you do with Ice programs.

Begin by offering a Level 1 cert class at all your affiliated rinks. Its drilled into Ice coaches that "this is first and foremost for the kids to have fun"....it seems a lot of the volunteer rec coaches A) are too concerned with winning and B) dont coach the game so that their kids learn "the game" regardless of whether or not they win.

Coaches clinics/coaches clinics/coaches clinics

Also, offer a free year of membership to high school seniors that teach a minimum of 3 or 4 clinics to the 12-unders and down. That might encourage them to "give back" to the programs they came up through. We've had several clinics at our rink given by the 18's travel team....they may teach the same thing the kids coach teaches...but its amazing how attentative young kids can be to the young men they admire and look up too.

Jon Amsberry
coach-Gwinnett Shockwave 10-under team
www.geocities.com/gwinnettshockwave

[USAHIL]

Jon,

Thanks for the reply.

We have offered coaching clinics for a number of years. We currently have Level 1 and Level 2 certification clinics that are focused on the things you pointed out in your post. Level 3 certification is currently in development and we hope to have that available in the near future.

If you or your league is need of coaching clinics, all you need to do is ask. Contact our National Coaching Coordinator Aaron Kriss at [email protected] if you need more information.

That is a great idea about involving the youth players in clinics and camps. We will pass that idea along to our member leagues and rinks. USAHIL currently offers Junior Development camps at various rinks around the country. One of the things that Aaron tries to do at these camps is to recruit 15-18 year olds to help out. He gives them a bunch of freebies - tshirts, sticks, etc. to reward them for their efforts. Maybe the next step we can take is to gently prod these guys into volunteering their time to coach a house league team. Obviously, they are already somewhat interested in helping with the younger kids so maybe just a little encouragement is all they would need. Good idea Jon.



Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[USAHIL]

MDE3,

Those are some excellent observations and thoughts.

So let's say that you were the man who was going to "promote a "re-structure" of the financial earnings of all the splintered groups so that they fall under a common earnings umbrella....and the resulting compromise is one that all can agree to work with." As you say, this is a tough nut to crack.

Can you expound a little on that thought? Specifically, what would you do or propose to try and make this happen? Additionally, how would this affect the local rink owner?

I think you are on to something and I'd like you to develop the thoughts a little more specifically for me.

Thanks again for the great input and I look forward to hearing further ideas.


Jay Milton
USA Hockey InLine
[email protected]

[shockwave]

I'm not sure you can "restructure" the "financial earnings" side of roller hockey, Jay. Remember, all these tournament groups are "for profit" companies. People that at some point stuck their neck out to make a tournament series successful.

I think encouraging "partnerships" and santioning with USAHIL as a "national governing body" is probably more appropriate. I know you guys rescheduled your April Regional last year because of spring breaks in Atlanta and combined the tournament with TORHs. Between USAHIL, TORHs and the local rinks parents...what a great show!!!
USAHIL could possibly intice these tournaments to join forces with them by allowing their tournaments, in addition to USAHIL Regionals to serve as qualifying events for USAHIL nationals...as long as it is a sanctioned event.

Jon Amsberry

[MDE3]

Unfortunately you have a cunundrum....those who have years invested in developing their own tournament series and it's followers are going to be reluctant to share or give up that part of their business.....but on the other hand...defending that financial piece of the pie, will continue to promolgate the same problems that now beleager the sport.....Groups competing for attendance based on percieved levels of competition (Tournament &quot;X&quot; is always the best and has all the best team, so if we win that one it means we are really the best team out there)...will continue to foster the chase for the most elite players and teams..at the expense of development....These teams are rarely &quot;home grown&quot; and if they are, they often start with home selected elite players, not necessarily players who grew up within the club.

On the other hand, the sport does need a showcase of elite players as an aspiration point for players growing within the sport....all sports need something for the youth players to shoot for at the top of the pyramid..however right now, most of the tournament groups are competing for a level of credibility which says &quot;we have the best players&quot;....and so theoretically can draw more good players and teams..ie more attendance equals more earnings.....hence the cycle continues. Thus an &quot;ad hoc&quot; pecking order of tournaments has been created, but it's validity is still rabidly debated. We are almost seeing an inverted pyramid right now.

How to fix this....well like the recent battle of the NHL and players association, a true financial accounting of earnings might be a place to start, and a compromise must be affected...based on past performance.

The top dog (greatest earnings) would then be given the rights to run two National Championships each year...winter and summer....and the winners of these tournaments would be recognised as being the true National Champions.... winning these tournaments would then really mean something....they would become a true benchmark of achievement for any teams participating. This strucure would remain in effect for the first five years, subject to review and debate starting in the fourth year.

Now what to do with all the groups for the rest of the year? Even though many of these groups run tournaments over a wide geographical area, and the owners of these series have spent a lot of time and money cultivating somewhat diverse regions, there should probably be a geographical deliniation for each of these groups within which they run their own regional tournaments exclusively. This will result in some squabbling (to say the least) initially, but I think this may be the only way that the groups can run successfully in the long term. Territories will be established and arbitrated by the financial evaluations mentioned above as well as the primary organization in charge of all National development of the sport.

To replace lost earnings from lost tournaments, these groups would also administer and collect fees for operating regional travel leagues, high school leagues and even house leagues all operating under identical playing formats (rules of the game etc. etc.) Group equipment purchases could also be arranged and sold through the local rinks...a possibility....Vertical expansion of earnings would replace the type of linear expansion which has created so much conflict in schedules and loyalties.

Another very practical consideration for going this direction with fuel costs skyrocketing, will be the reduced travel expenses, as local league play gradually supplements and possibly replaces &quot;tournament play&quot; as the most common playing venue. Costs of the sport to individual families must be a major concern in any restructuring.

Larger rinks (multi complexes) would qualify for certain levels of regional tournaments, but smaller rinks would benefit from participating in the growth of travel leagues and high school competition......obviously there is much leg work to be done here as this type of development is fledgling at best in the sport right now....but this is the direction development must take.

All this must be administered under one roof....a roof I propose to be USAHIL...based on it's parellel experience in the development of ice hockey.

Just a thought.

[JohnHockey1798]

I am noot sure if this is what you are looking for but I will post anyway. I live in Las Vegas, NV. Roller Hockey around here has shrunk a lot since about 2000. The youth leagues are almost gone and the adult league are not staying the same. There is no promotion of the sport and it shows. There was talk of the local ECHL team starting street hockey leagues but I have not heard anything about it yet.
What I am trying to say is that USAHIL needs to get in areas where roller hockey has died and help develope some programs to see if they can increase interest. I am not saying that you have to keep at it for a long time maybe a year.
I think a way to help areas grow the sport might be a good idea and a start. The rest of the work has to be doen by players, parents, and rink owners/managers. I hope this helps.

John

Toga!! Toga!!

[shockwave]

Good points....but I dont think USAHIL could reasonably try to dictate a "who goes where" sort of franchise for the existing tournaments series'. I don think the rinks would want that either....the rinks want the tournament to come in and sell out for the obvious reason...hours on the rink = $$$ in their cofers.

I think if USAHIL can effectively sell to NARCh, TORHS, Pacific Cup, TopCat, 2Hot4ICe, and whomever else considers themselves ELITE....that a win at their nationals earns a birth the a Single USAHIL Nationals, then the debate goes away. Heck, you could even setup a system like the BCS...let a different series co-host their Nationals and USAHIL Nationals each year. Does USA Hockey hold a trade show each year that you could invite these guys in and sit them down at a table to discuss issues?? Would even be beneificial to them to hear others problems/solutions??

[MDE3]

Hence the proposal for developing regional high school and travel hockey to replace the dependance on tournament venues....proper development of these venues would add many more hours of play than the occasional tournament....meaning once every two months or so..even once a month...

Tournaments would not totally disappear, but become part of an existing travel league regional format, and high school, regional format....

The status quo cannot remain in place....no matter how many object...play MUST become more intense on a local basis (local to all rinks)....just because of the dramatic increase in costs everyone will experience due to the rising costs of fuel....this will affect far more than just the cost of driving a car...all shipping costs of equipment, energy costs for heating and cooling rinks, hotels, restaurants etc. etc....the cost of travel will no doubt climb by a minimum of 30%.....more, depending on the distance to rinks.....Teenagers struggling to pay for gas to drive to rinks already....will be looking for something else to do that they can afford... Financial costs to players have already become a major reason for some of the decline seen in the sport....this must be of major concern in any restructuring, fighting among each other over a shrinking money pie, is NOT the answer.....time to put on the thinking caps and really step outside the box.

The tournament groups as a whole must begin to see the writing on the wall, and vountarily look for a way to restructure under one common organization..whomever it may be...

USAHIL makes more sense because of their long experience setting up the same basic system for ice....inline will have to parellel this, and the sooner the better, or it may soon become a footnote in the annals of .."whatever happened to?"..sports. The group who administers this whole thing, can be a "board of directors" selected from outside USAHIL....from the existing Tournament Groups....but working within the framework of the USAHIL...in order to piggyback on their experience....look for compromises folks, but look to utilize existing expertise....not 20 directors all looking to re-invent the wheel.

[shockwave]

Good points MDE....now the real challenge that is paramount is to convince the USOC to pull Inline Hockey out from under the huge umbrella of "roller sports" with USARS as the "national governing body". Until very recently, I was not aware that USARS/AAU was doing much with Inline Hockey...the do NOTHING in Georgia and were completely off my radar. It seems the majority of serious already seek USAHIL sanctioning for insurance reasons. It would make since that they would back a push to make USAHIL the "national governing body". It seems USA Hockey has had a great deal of success with Ice that they would be the natural fit with Inline. I dont see them treating Inline as a red-headed step child either!

Just my two cents!!

JA

[shockwave]

remind me not to use the boards spell checker any longer either....

[thebenchman]

Shockwave ...
err go that is the problem. Roller Hockey is NOT ICE HOCKEY. Its not the same game. ITs like as some have tried to say... HARD BALL hockey and roller hockey.... they are MORE similar than ice and Roller. The MAJOR thing is the skates. Roller Sports encompasses ALL ROLLER sports. Yes it should be able to stand on its own. The major problem is the proverbial "network" of old buddies who have played the game and look for a buck in their own pocket appear to join forces to be stronger. Think about it..... is it easier to keep those you compete against NEAR you? hmmmm

I salute USA HOCKEY for running a GREAT ICE program. In line they to me are actually the one who is the money grubber that USARS/AAU has been accused of.

I applaude Jay for his many posts on what would you do. I have not posted much any where yet due to the fact I know "some" about the comparisons between the tow organizations. As Pro-USAHIL he is, I am the opposite for USARS/AAU. I have been been around long enough to see that my side has grown by leaps and bound nationally and has stepped up and has caught many people by suprise. To a point where some have felt the twinge of bold face lies and accusations that are WAY out of line. The same people sned their kids to play in an AAU Junior Olympics, Tournament/Nationals and all they do it make up lies.

AAU has been very quiet to this point as it is seen that the ones making the noise has seen the growth. No one comes on here and asks you what to do. The rink owners and the manufacturers and the parents are all the answers.

On a final note, we KNOW that TOUR is the leader in the sport. Do you not find it funny the same one that one says how horrible we are they support whole heartedly? Is it funny that phone calls get placed with individuals to say that your camp or your tournament has made a dent in this one or the other?

We ALL need to work together. Right now, we have TOO many people claiming to the the ALMIGHTY. The old saying too many chefs in the kitchen spoils the soup.... applies to the sport. The declines in many tournaments and rink is due to the fact there is too may pi**ing parties infighting making us looks like buffoons.

Cant we ALL work this out? I am so darn frustrated, due to the fact today this one says THEY are the one. Dammit I am the President of the United States.... what does it mean? not a darn thing, except I have many of you pissed off because I am now a conservative and in charge....lol

Die hard hockey nut.

[johnny2suede]

BENCHMAN:

Roller Hockey is NOT ICE HOCKEY. Its not the same game. ITs like as some have tried to say... HARD BALL hockey and roller hockey.... they are MORE similar than ice and Roller. The MAJOR thing is the skates.

Geez Benchman do you believe that? If so, well...that's retarded. Now on the other hand, if you're just repeating USARS' talking points...well, then that's being a troll.

I hope everyone has actually seen ball and cane hockey played. Does it visually resemble inline hockey in any way?

Let's see. Ball and cane hockey is played with a hard ball on quad skates and the goals are much smaller than inline goals and the players wear little girle like shorts and no helmets and they use a short little cane and the refs wear white sneakers and don't skate and instead of "calling" a penalty the ref shows a card like in soccer.

Sure ball and cane and inline are played 4 on 4, but that doesn't count for much as ball and cane strategy and tactics differ tremendously from inline.

Benchman, no more credibility for you if you also believe hard ball hockey is more similar to inline than ice.

[thebenchman]

From the SKATE stand point it is. THAT is what I meant....Yes the cane and ball is different. But yes the skates and the puck are different in roller and ice.
Sorry my comments were confusing.



Die hard hockey nut.