AAU/USARS Forfeits

[johnny2suede]

I read elsewhere that Gold division teams are playing at AAU for the USARS Nationals and that there is prize money of $10,000. Also that you have to play in this division to be eligible for any USARS Team USA. But supposedly there is supposed to be forefeits since a rule states that you have to be a US citizen to play. Has anyone heard of any protests involving that rule? So, if someone had a Canadian play they would have to forfeit games in which the player played?

[johnny2suede]

Did Chad Seibel play for the Mudcats at AAU?

[thebenchman]

Johnny.... I dont know where you are going on this... YEs he did. But it was all approved PRIOR to the Pro games by the AAU and USARS. So please.... let it go.

Roy

Die hard hockey nut.

[johnny2suede]

Benchman-I wouldn't think it has anything to do with AAU, correct?

But since you seem to know about this, who actually of USARS did approve the rule change? Are you sure? If you can come on this board and make a statement as you did and then ask for no further discussion of the issue, certainly you can tell us specific names who would have the authority to approve such a major rule change and did make the change.

[NLane]

Is this one of those "as long as it's okay with the 'Meet Director' things"? We heard that alot in USARS.(goalie not wearing an hecc approved helmet was allowed to play, more than the 'rule book' number of players suited up and on the bench were allowed to stay. Seems the rule book didn't matter as long as the Meet Director had the last word on it all.

[thebenchman]

To answer your question on who approved the playing in these games were Keith Knoll who is the AAU National Hockey Chair and USARS Hockey Committee member, and Barry Jackson from AAU. George Pickard from FIRS also approved.

So I think its just sour grapes to try to stir this up. sorry.

On the HECC masks and approved helmets..... I will admit to not inspecting every one of them. Could their have been one to slip by? Maybe. Nlane, the players that "suited up" really didnt make any sense to me. I saw the maximum players of 12 and 2 goalies on any team. most team had 8-10 skaters and a goalie.

By the comment of "MEET" you must have some sort of reference to not like AAU/USARS. Thats cool. YOu are entitled to your opinions. I find them to be the ONLY organization that is growing right now. From the grass roots up. The play in the JO's and FIRS were very good. The teams that represented OUR country won in every play they played, from FIRS in Paris, to Worlds in Germany to the Juniopr Worlds in FIRS /New Orleans. I dont think I saw that with any other programs? To make it just a BIT better..... four of the players from the USA Junior World team went to "another" national and pretty much walked thru that 18u division. So tell me was it a coincidence? Hardly.

I really dont want to fight. I am FULLY in support of the AAU/USARS. I have no ax to grind with ANY other tourney. I just want the game to be played. I will tell the truth when I see others lie about what they "heard" was going on at JO's. If we dont TRY to get along and make this work. We are seeing rinks die in some areas, we see people blasting each other and getting into near fights. Bottom line we need to have communication not only between "us" but everyone to try to see that any losses are stopped.

Richard, You know I dont come on here to argue. You the first comment seemed to make it sound like that there was some "underhanded" moves to benefit some. I can guarantee not every one ends up happy in a tournament or national. Bottom line IS GO, PLAY....If you dont like what you see, dont go back. There is a LOT of "nationals" out there. However if you didnt go, why try to start a battle of the threads on boards?

Ill give Danny Guard credit. He is a pro USAHIL as I am AAU/USARS. We do talk. He has his feeling and I have mine. But bottom line I will give him respect because..... He wants the sport to grow. If he has an opinion he will give it an not try to just stir it up. He will listen and if he too think there is no productivity in the conversation he will say... we will agree to disagree and move on.

Again it is apparent that many do not like AAU/USARS. There are many who feel the same about USAHIL. Some Dont like TORHS and same for NARCh... or any other of the 100's of tournaments. Bottom line is PLAY the game. Find one you like and see if THAT tourney can grow too. I dont care nor do I worry about others tourneys do except for Narch. I like their Nationals. But I am MORE in support of AAU/ USARS so that is where I was. My Choice. My Opinion.

Enjoy!
Roy Warren

Die hard hockey nut.

[NLane]

My association with the organization was 15 years ago. Hope it has changed. At the time the $100.00 I had to spend on an HECC approved helmet was 3 weeks of food for my son and I and to see other players not having to go to that expense, even for safety's sake, just left a bad taste. Please don't think I have any problems with the organization now. I follow adult games/events/leagues as I have no younger children skating. Hope all of us on this board are forwarding the growth of inline hockey and hope the interest doesn't stop when the players turn 21.

[johnny2suede]

Benchman -- Thanks for the reply.

Was this rule change something that was sent out to all teams playing at USARS in advance? Or perhaps it was stated on the USARS website somewhere? If so, could you direct us to that information?

[thebenchman]

I can tell you that from what I see nearly ALL helmets are HECC approved now a days. I have been in a tournament where right before the Championship game all of my players gloves were checked to see if there were no tears or rips in them If so, new one had to be purchased at the pro shop BEFORE the game ot it was a forfeit. So I can relate.I can tell you that in the previous year USAC DID make some blunders that we are STILL trying to recover from. It is a different program than it was then. Ask them question they are really accessible and will shoot straight. That is what has impressed me so.

To Johnny Suede, I do not know the answer if it was sent out or how it was handled. I can tell you it WAS talked about and was covered BEFORE the Pro games were even started and was approved.

Roy Warren

Die hard hockey nut.

[DannyG]

Okay, can't let this one go by, since both Nancy and Roy are genuinely concerned about this-and-that...

I assure you that although the USAHIL youth nationals were very enjoyable by every measurement I use, I do indeed have a list of "here's the good stuff, and here's the bad stuff." And the list of bad stuff far outweighed the good stuff. Without any first hand knowledge of the AAU nationals in New Orleans, I would bet that any knowledgeable participant would have similar lists, with the bad similarly outweighing the good...

also, again albeit without any first hand knowledge, I'll bet the NARCh finals have many problems that continue to need solutions...

Hey, nobody gets it perfect, at least not yet...what we need to do, as players, coaches, and administrators, of course, is to continue to work to make all of these fine events better and better for everybody...

While it is both my opinion and perception that the AAU inline hockey program necessarily being tied to the over all AAU "Junior Olympics" program will cause it's tournament next year to have less-than-perfect, perhaps even makeshift facilities, they may indeed overcome the logistics problems of "manufacturing" 3-4 rinks on-the-spot, and all will be good...can't say, that's in the future. Those that wish to support AAU, I say, give 'em all your help, and make it work great for everybody...

However...

Feel free to really push this along with me: I have formally proposed to USA Hockey that they specifically get with Daryn, Tim, and Jason, as well as the entire industry, and host next mid-July, over 12-15 days, in Las Vegas, a six rink, Triple-Organization-Gigantic-Tournament...The USAHIL Youth National Championships, the NARCh Finals, and the State Wars national tournament, all together under one roof! This would occur at the same time as the annual industry trade show...

Why would anybody go anywhere else...If these three entities can get it together and make it happen, then this will revolutionize the entire national tournament process, and make it the most enjoyable, most exciting thing since sliced bread...[Daryn: buy out of your Toronto contract for next year, and DO THIS!]

I would indeed be interested in other's thoughts and ideas about this proposal...IHC readers, lemme know what you think.

also, call your hockey congressman (Gary, Daryn, Jason, Tim at their respective offices?) and let 'em know that you would love to support such a happening.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[johnny2suede]

Danny said: "Feel free to really push this along with me: I have formally proposed to USA Hockey that they specifically get with Daryn, Tim, and Jason, as well as the entire industry, and host next mid-July, over 12-15 days, in Las Vegas, a six rink, Triple-Organization-Gigantic-Tournament...The USAHIL Youth National Championships, the NARCh Finals, and the State Wars national tournament, all together under one roof! This would occur at the same time as the annual industry trade show..."

Las Vegas would be the only place to do it. But it would take years of planning as the Las Vegas Convention Center books years in advance. They would never have that time available on such short notice.

Benchman-- I'm doing a little research on the USARS thing, I know it was an issue that came up during the event, not before. I think there was some back room politics going on and now we're in coverup mode. Sure would be nice to see some sort of written communication that happened before the event, so that every team knew it had the option of using Canadians or anyone else.

If this is made into an issue, USARS, being an NGB, will have to answer to any and all accusations/ and or filed grievances. It will not be as simple as just saying that some Keith, Barry or George took care of it.

We'll see.

[DannyG]

Johnny, the Sands Expo center has halls that can fit nine rinks (in one hall), and there are other facilities in the city as well...the trick is that it is tough to assemble rinks...the equipment manufacturers (sportcourt, athletica/border patrol, and daktronics, for example) would need to be willing to pitch in, and make the event part of their marketing operation.

So, yeah, there would be "stuff to work out," but it is all doable...everybody just has to want to do it...the hope is that the incentive to produce an event of such magnitude will cause everybody to really want to make it happen...

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[johnny2suede]

Then the Sands would be worth looking into. I do believe that those three organizations all get along well, in fact Jason used to work for NARCH.

But I don't think the Industry Expo could be run at the same time as it's not "product release" time.

But good creative thinking, hope others contribute to the idea. Maybe still a little early and 2007 might be the time.

Will AAU inline always be run in the same locations as the other AAU events?

[NLane]

That would really be awesome if that could happen. Keep the Faith!

[NLane]

Is this adult level? I don't see where an adult division was even offered at the AAU West Coast Championships.

[Defense1st]

Danny,

I do not know about Vegas as the venue, but even as a pro AAU guy, I am all for it. The Super Rink (8 floors available by next summer) maybe a better venue (in Minnesota). But if people want to go to the Hockey Show at the same time, why not Vegas. maybe even Topcat/CCIS and 6 Pac could run their finals at the same time and let qualified teams play in them all.

I have not heard anything but raves about State Wars.
It has been so well run, on time, competitve, weel seeded, clean rinks, etc. and so well recieved by the people who have attended that they are not even complaining that there is no or at least very little AC in the rink areas themselves. They are opening the rink doors and blasting the AC from the commons areas outside the rinks to keep the rinks cool.

From everyone I have spoken to it's been the best event they have attended, better even than Narch.

Phil Steur

[Defense1st]

Not necessarily. AAU Hockey has the option to determine its own Junior Olympics locations. Last year JO's was in Des Moines, Iowa while the Hockey JO's was in St. Louis.

[johnny2suede]

Ok Benchman, people are back from various tournaments and here's what I have been able to put together about the Mudcats and using an illegal player, a Canadian, in the Gold Division at 2005 USARS, held in New Orleans at the AAU tournament.

USARS has become more exclusionary and now has a rule that in order to play for the Senior Team USA, you must compete in the USARS Gold Division. And there is a General Rule that requires that every player must be a US citizen and foreign players are illegal.

This rule is contained in the USARS General Rules. Here it is:

GR7.03.02 (a) To enter an event qualifying for the United States Championships except in artistic skating, a skater must be a bona fide resident of the United States or its possessions, having continuously resided in this country for six months or be a citizen of the United States. (?The residence must be the principal permanent dwelling, not a temporary dwelling.?)

(b) Alien Restriction On World Trials - Competitors must have USA citizenship to enter a qualifying art, speed or hockey championships in an event which leads to the selection of a U.S. Olympic or Pan American Games Team, a U.S. Junior or Senior World Team, or a roller skating team designated as Team USA. Citizenship is a requirement of FIRS for National Team representation. The events thus affected include but are not limited to Gold Division of Hockey, both Hardball and Inline Puck; and Women?s Hardball Hockey

So, the Mudcats would be in violation of part B.

Other skaters, in other divisions may have been in violation of part a.

USARS has a long history is making under the table and back room deals and what I hear is that no teams were contacted before the event and told they could use foreign players, that the rule had been changed.

Also, since this is a General Rule, it would require voting and approval by the Board of Directors or maybe the Executive Committee of USARS and there should be a special mention of that in their minutes or on their website. I can not find it.

I think there is a coverup going on. Maybe Benchman can direct us to where this decision by the Board of Directors can be found that would show this rule had been changed PRIOR to the event starting.

Thank you.