It's the New York Rockers!

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

Here's some new MLRH news!

***

MLRH announces name change, sign Johnny Pinheiro, Roger Lee

Alexandria, VA-- Major League Roller Hockey (MLRH) announced today that the New York Dragons have changed their name to the "Rockers." League officials said the name change was made to avoid a conflict with the Arena Football League's New York Dragons.

"It would appear that everyone at MLRH follows hockey more than arena football," said MLRH President Bill Raue. "We were totally unaware of their existence."

The Rockers name was selected as a tribute to the old RHI New Jersey Rock 'n' Rollers, one of the more sucessful teams in the early days of pro roller hockey.

While the team is having its problems selecting a name, it has been considerably more succesful in signing players. Neil Hect, the Rockers GM, has a committment from Johnny Pinheiro, one of the league's superstars, and standout goalkeeper Roger Lee.

The Rockers open their season January 22 at the New Jersey Cougars in Sewell, NJ. Their home opener is set for January 29 when they host the Virginia Wings and their high-flying Czech, Rob Blaha, at the Inman Sport Complex in Edison, NJ. The Rockers will move to Mt. Sinai, Long Island for the 2006 season. Scheduling conflicts will prevent the Rockers from playing full-time at Inline 1 Arena this season. They will play most of their games at the Edison complex with a few promotional games on Long Island.

***

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[NLane]

Can't play in two leagues at the same time. Good luck in the XIHL playoffs Thunder...that weekend is the first game for the New York team (in Jersey).
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NLane on 12/31/04 06:59 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[SpiderRat]

I sat out this XIHL season so the 22nd won't be a problem. Oh, you mean John, sorry, didn't know who the dig was directed too at first, my bad. Happy New Year.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[NLane]

No dig, just the facts. I thought you committed to a team in the XIHL or did someone just get it wrong?

[SpeedDemon]

This ought to be interesting, John is also playing for the <A HREF="http://www.growlhockey.com/meetthegrowl/index.htm" target="_new">Growl</A> again this year. That kid gets around! /wtimages/icons/cool.gif

[SpiderRat]

I committed to Ottakringer, but due to personal obligations and the concerns I had with the &quot;festival format&quot;, as well as a lack of communication from the league, none returned calls, emails, that sort of thing, I decided to play MLRH instead. I thought I understood XIHL's direction, but maybe I miss understood something along the way. Can you tell I'm a bit sour at XIHL's Directors. Yea sour, like something doesn't taste right. I apologies for the negative post so close to the New Year and all, but I've lost patience. So with that off my chest, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by SpiderRat on 12/31/04 01:42 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[MDE3]

sour?

[NLane]

Sore?

[NLane]

Same umbrella.

[SpiderRat]

Hey, Easy!!! I'm a goalie, I never said I/we were smart!!!

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[NLane]

Have a safe holiday...

[Brooklynite10]

I understand some players from Ottakringer and Thunder have already played in MLRH games. What happens now ? Is there an exemption because the XIHL finals have been pushed back. I was thinking about joining a team on MLRH or PIHA, but have not pursued it yet because our season is not over. What is the deal ? Are these players going to be allowed to play our playoffs ? Can I go a head and pursue playing in another league ?

[GROWL]

The rules that state you can not play in another league are ridiculous. As a player I would tell whoever wrote that rule to either create a truly superior league that merits such a rule or to kiss my a$$. The leagues do not have the power in this situation, the players do.

[NLane]

What does your owner/coach say? Are they in touch with the league? I know as much as you guys do. The MLRH weekends run into the PIHA weekends too so it really should be interesting.

[Brooklynite10]

I feel the same way ! Just don't want to be booted out of the playoffs. Our team has worked hard for many months and would suck if I had to sit out the playoffs.

[Brooklynite10]

I will check with him tonight. I have been going by what people have posted and what i've been told.

[GROWL]

I don't believe the XIHL has this rule, however I know that it has been a constant in Raue's league. He has shown a consistant effort to not work with the other leagues as if his league is any better than any one else's. Probably one of the reasons that the XIHL was created in the first place.

[SpeedDemon]

The XIHL has the rule. Seven players for MLRH Philadelphia Rage were not allowed to play the opening game, and probably won't be allowed to play this weekend either until they finished their XIHL season.

[XIHL]

The XIHL does have this rule. The rule is about committment and responsibility. Each player signed a contract to play for a respective team and it's states that they will not play for another team in another league during the XIHL season. This is meant to give the team owner piece of mind that all his players will be available through the duration of the season and won't be left short because one or more players get injured playing in another league or simply choose to play in another league. It's just about fairness.

Now regarding the current situation, if the individual team owners want to allow their signed players to play in another league because of the delay in finishing the XIHL, then the team owner can ask the league for a waiver and one will be granted. If any XIHL player is found to have played in another league without getting a waiver from his team owner, then those players will not be allowed to play in any other XIHL games this season.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[SpiderRat]

Before bashing Bill, look at the facts; XIHL had to shorten it's season, turning to a "Festival" format, because they say they didn't have time to put together a full season schedule. In half the time, Bill has put together a full season, including teams in Europe. In which the winner in the U.S. will play the winner IN Europe. I'd rather play for a trip to Europe than to play for $2,500 split between 15 or so players. Bill looks out for his goals just like Steve and Benny are. Promoting the sport. My personal dealings with Bill have been mostly positive, I'm still waiting for the deals the guys at XIHL have made to ten guys a year ago to happen. To me that's negative. By the way, XIHL does have that rule. So who's not making a consistent effort to work with the other leagues?

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[AFan99]

Let's be serious now. It's not like anyone is making significant money from this. We should all be allowed to play where and when we want too. I may as well ask my mom and dad if I can play this weekend. This should not be an issue, I would be willing to bet most guys in the league have played in Torhs or Narch tournaments during the XIHL season, so can they play if they dont have a waiver? I am sure they can. This is all about sticking it each others leagues, grow up and help grow the sport like you say you are trying to do.

Thanks
Paul

[SpiderRat]

Bad rule Benny. This is suppose to be about the love of playing the game. Anywhere, anytime. Until checks start passing hands, no one should be locked into a league like they are from Cuba. LET US PLAY!! LET US PLAY!!! LET US PLAY!!!! Come on Brothers and sister!!!! All together now, LET US PLAY!!!!

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[AFan99]

Oh wait Benny and Steve can I go play down at the tennis court this weekend? Who do you two guys think you are telling people when they can play roller hockey, are you for real.

LOL

[SpiderRat]

That's it Paul, I'm taking my puck and going home, now nobody plays.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[MDE3]

My son is in the same boat, and part of me wants to shout up and down the net about how this is unfair....however in the case of the WereWolves in particular their owner has made a significant financial commitment to this new league and this new team for the entire season, not for half of it, or one game...for the whole season! He did this while certainly understanding that the short term returns are minimal...The players who signed these agreements with that team did have the opportunity to benefit from two paid trips across the country..one playing an XIHL exhibition game and the other under a different aegis to play a mens Platinum Narch tournament...but basicaly the same team...They also recieved not insignificant equipment from the team for the season as well. But most of all they recieved the loyalty of an owner who continued to shell it out for them from the beginning of the season to the end.

I would tend to think that the primary reason for this restrictive rule, was to prevent players from making comittments they could not keep..no matter how good their intentions, or simply signing up for a &quot;good thing&quot; and then moving along when something which looked better or more suitable to their abilities, or their schedule popped up.

I think everyone who has participated on these teams in the various leagues, knows what a challenge it can be to get enough players to every game. As an owner, knowingly allowing your players the opportunity to be on two or three different teams, simply means that you know you have multiplied your problems 2-3 times. So many on here tend to blame the owners...but let's face it...by it's very nature inline hockey tends to be a less disciplined sport than others. It attracts a lot of players who have spent much time becoming "skilled individuals", more so than team players. Maybe that's what makes it so hard for team owners to get players to stay committed? A little loyalty to the guys who have been shelling it out, in time, effort, and money might go a long way to making any of these leagues a longterm success.

We all want the best for the sport, and we all talk about getting each other's back, and commitment...as long as it's the other guy's commitment....If we decide we want to do whatever or play wherever, that's ok...we have that right..or do we? These players made a judgement call that said they wanted to be part of the XIHL when it started..they signed up...knowing it was a start up league, and knowing their could be problems...well there were..and guess where the problems came from....guys making commitments they did not keep....Maybe it's time for these players to stand up and say...I gave my word, and I am sticking to it....

[yokes]

I personnally dont like the rule either. I will abide by it but if there is commitment issues then the owner should not of taken this person in the first place if they werent sure whether they would miss a game due to another league. Did Johnny P. sign one of those and will he have to do it again if he suits up fot the Growl next weekend? Now on that note, next weekend i am playing for the Growl and have yet to sign a waiver, not sure of our status in XIHL what needs to be done on my end Benny. I might not get back to you right away being that ill be at wingbowl friday and in Jacksonville sunday but please let me know.

If you dont hit me im not stopping it.

[XIHL]

Who am I? Who are you? Steve and I started this league to provide a vehicle for high-level players to play. We're not telling you when or where to play. IT'S YOUR CHOICE. If you want to play in our league, you follow our rules. If you don't want to follow our rules, then don't play in our league. You choose. It's simple as that. If you want to bash our league, go ahead. But at the same time, you're using flawed logic. On one hand, you say, "We're not getting a paycheck, so you don't have the right to tell us we can't play in another league." How can we be expected to build a professionally-run league if players are coming and going as they please. What owners will want to join our league if we don't protect his roster for the duration of the season. What sponsors will give us money if we don't have players dedicated to our league. What fans will buy tickets if we can't guarantee a team will show up with a full roster. People keep saying that this sport is stagnant. They keep wondering when will the pro/elite leagues ever get their act together. Well, it's guys like you that keep sabotaging our efforts. You guys keep throwing crap at us and by us I mean Charlie Yoder and PIHA and Bill Raue and MLRH as well as me and Steve. Why don't you guys just pick a league and support it. We want dedicated players in our league. If you don't like our rules or how we run our league, then feel free to exercise your right to choose and play in a different league. Your inane and immature comments on this message board do nothing to help fix the problem. Your desire to play in whatever league you want to whenever you want to does nothing to help any league gain valuable credibility.

Let the bashing begin.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[MDE3]

So basically if a bunch of your crew decides they are forming an MLRH team as well, and decides that they would rather play in that league if there are conflicting dates, or as a result of one of those other games become injured and must miss the rest of your season, that is ok by you?

[SportsAnnouncing]

I have to agree with Benny on this one. The last time I checked--at least in the DC area--if you play for one high school ice team, you can't play for another high school ice team. You can play for a travel team, but not Reston and Montgomery at the same time unless there are certain circumstances at the same time.

When I lived in NY, same thing. If you lived in Auburn, you played for Auburn. Wanted to change teams in mid-season, you had to be approved by USA Hockey.

One of inline's problems is it comes across as a glorified pick-up game. Unfortunately for those who are dedicated to this game and take it seriously, those individuals out there who want to play for Team X on the Pro level on Saturday, then play for Team Q on Sunday, it ruins the continuity.

Think about going to an alumni game of your local NHL team. Imagine seeing four or five alumni with 10-15 "other" players you've never heard of--although Rich Navin does popup everywhere I go--decreases the fun and people wont go back.

You need to have identity to the team, the league, the sport. Minor League Baseball has identities with certain players, but the fans there know that the players this year move up next year. Pro inline, that's the cream of the crop and seeing a player play for two different teams in one weekend really kills the credibility of the sport as a whole and kills the identity.

D. C. Mad Dogs did an awesome job of playing up Nick Pogu in the program for his accomplishments with a Jr. ice team. His picture was in the program and prominently displayed. Several of his teammates were at the game last Saturday and showed support. Identity created.

Jarrod.

Visit SportsAnnouncing.com for info on Game Production, announcing and more

[GROWL]

absolutely not! I have discussed this with all of my players in an effort to nip it in the bud before it caused a problem. I can only assume you are trying to be subtle and are refering to the rumor that there was going to be a team in Delaware with a handful of our players on it. That team is not happening for a reasons different than this, however I am confident that the players involved in that situation feel the same way I do about this ridiculous rule.

[GROWL]

Do not get me wrong, I am not bashing Bill, just his rule. In my dealing with Bill, I have found him very personable and extremely professional. However while you may feel one way in regard to the superiority of his league, I believe there are many doubts in many peoples minds about it being any different than any of the other similair efforts. All I am trying to get at here is that a rule like this is extremly bold and should probably be earned AFTER proving that your league deserves that sort of commitment.

[GROWL]

This debate has spun in the complete wrong diretion. The fact that needs to be discussed is that the three leagues in question are in fact competing for the same players. Why does PIHA have 6 teams, why did XIHL have to struggle to keep 5 teams, and why are there so many doubts to the success of Bill's new super league. The answer is simple... we are competing instead of working together. I can atleast say that I tried to do my part to bring this together. I was apart of the first several meetings between Steve and Charlie, as well as hounding and using whatever influence I had to pursuade Charlie to work with the other leagues. I continue to support Charlie in whatever decisions he make, because that is where I have decided to give my team's allegence, however I believe that rule to be overly arrogant... It doesn't give owners a satisfaction of knowing that their players will be committed, it gives them the stress of making their players choose between 2 or 3 leagues that haven't earned the respect to ask for what they are asking.

[GROWL]

This is not a relevant arguement. The problem that exists is that players do have options. A high school kid can't attend 3 different schools at once, giving his this dilemna. A better arguement is if that player were playing mens league at three different competing rinks and one or more of those rinks made rules that you couldnt play at their rink, if you played at their competetors rink. By the way, McDonalds will no longer serve any one who frequents BK or Wendy's.

[MDE3]

In exchange for free burgers on a weekly basis ...in an arrangement you agreed to....I think they might have just cause....

[MDE3]

The answer to my question of "are you ok with this?" was &quot;Absolutely not&quot;, and would tend to indicate that you feel there should be some commitment on the part of the players playing for your organization.....How is this any different, from what the owners of these other clubs are expecting...particularily when they have fronted significantly more over the course of a whole season?...You cannot have it both ways. If in some way you are standing on a soap box to pretend that somehow this loyalty is merited more by PIHA than by XIHL or MLRH, then you are just not being realistic....

All the owners of these teams ....you included, expect their players to honor a commitment..this agreement is no more than a formalization of that expectation. The fact that this agreement has hurt the ability of one or two PIHA teams, and a few players, to compete as effectively for a couple of games is too bad.

If the situation were reversed, you would be the first in line blowing the whistle on these players...I know how exacting you can be when "holding to the rules" where it might effect your own team...from personal experience....

[AFan99]

Bottom line is most of the guys just want to play as much roller hockey as possible. Who am I, I am a dedicated player who has done much traveling to play MLRH, Torhs, and Narch. I see your point about rules, but GROWL has a valid point, that all we want to do is promote the sport. You will discourage guys about your league if you enforce that type of rule. Again guys want to play as much as possible. I know Steve pretty well and have had many conversations with him on how to grow the sport. I just stated my opinion and the opinion of players I have talked to so ease up a little. Whats wrong did I hit a nerve.

Just my opinion.

Thanks
Paul

[hockeypictaker]

Roger, That wouldn't be the first time you've done that...hehehe

[SpiderRat]

"If you don't like our rules or how we run our league, then feel free to exercise your right to choose and play in a different league." Does that mean that say half way through the season, we find that we don't like the way your running your league, we have to either suck it up and play anyway, or do we have to sit out the remainder of the season and not play somewhere else? Aren't you contradicting yourself Benny by saying if we don't like it, play somewhere else?

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[SpiderRat]

So....

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[MDE3]

That's a pretty &quot;discretionary&quot; avenue...&quot;well I'll try this and see if I like it&quot;..if I (for whatever reason) feel it doesn't suit me..I will just up and leave...I want that privelege....

Maybe the rule should be: ....ok..the owner has paid a &quot;to date&quot; a running total of &quot;X&quot;$ for multiple hours of free rink time, &quot;X&quot; dollars for travel subsidy, &quot;X&quot; $ for equipment subsidy, and &quot;X&quot; hours of his time at ..say $75.00/ hr...divided by the number of players on the roster....Your cost to opt out before the season ends is ....oops..maybe $1000.00...You get to exercise your freedom, and the owner get's his investment back for an unfullfilled contract.

Would that be a better scenario, to keep players to their commitments?

Roller hockey players at the elite levels are so used to bopping from one solicited appearance to another, that they have grown to think that somehow this has become an inalienable right....As I have said before....much of the problem with getting any serious league off the ground has been for the players and sometimes the owners to keep to their intitial commitments....if someone does not draw the line...then it will never happen.....no-one will ever take the organizations seriously...whether they merit it or not.

So when an owner like Mark Standish of the Werewolves, or Adam Paskoff with the NJ Bullets (as I recall another very dedicated owner)&quot;puts out&quot; like they have for their teams, I think it is fair that the players be expected to withstand a certain amount of minor inconvenience in exchange for these efforts. Otherwise...why would they consider doing it again?...Think about this before you carry on like spoiled children (my age is showing)...Good owners are much harder to come by than good players....

[ScrappersSponser]

What if the contract were with the teams intstead of the owners. The owners then have control. Make them a legal document. AKA a no compete clause in specific leagues. The owner would then have to provide to that player services or a form of compensation to keep them loyal. AKA the paid rink time and what not. Most of these players pay to play in these leagues. Why should they be told you can't play elsewhere if its your hard earned cash your spending. In regards to a team like the werewolves where the owner pays for it all. A commitment to that team should be expected.

Jeff Haze

[NLane]

You got that right! I miss having an owner. If you ever have one you'll truly know of what we are speaking and you won't mind being dedicated to him/her in whatever league they are participating.

[NLane]

You going to file a 1099 on that? Hello IRS.....
The contracts are stated as players with the team and the team to the league. So indirectly the players belong to the league. I didn't see anyone cross that line out on the contract. A lot of dicussion went into contracts several years ago to make them as "friendly" to all parties as possible. Age old problem, eh....just ask the NHL.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NLane on 02/03/05 10:55 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[MDE3]

Actually their contract( Werewolves players) IS to the team, and the Team's contract is to the league I believe. And yes, where the players are "paying to play"...they are not usually paying anywhere even close to the actual costs...but a "make up amount" between what the owner's have put up, what the owner's can get sponsor's to cover, and the actual cost. So even when the players are paying..they are most often still only paying a subsidiized cost...often if the "owner" is the rink itself..the rink is either kicking in "free or low cost" floor time, so players are often still seeing "benefits' even if they are paying some amount to play.

We have been fortunate enough to be involved with two owners who covered a great deal more, and to whom some loyalty was/is certainly due.

[MDE3]

Actually I understand that the league has already "waived" that rule, if the individual team owners are ok with the players playing elswhere..so it becomes an issue with the individual owners as to whether they will enforce it or not....BUT, it's still about a player's commitment to the owner and the team first and foremost

[ScrappersSponser]

Post deleted by RichardGraham

[Brooklynite10]

Benny, I totally back you on your statements. I was only inquiring about playing in another league due to the postponing of our championship. I am very committed to my team and the growth of the XIHL. I have no problem with that rule and neither should anybody else. In order for any league to be successful, that rule needs to be in place for reasons already posted by Mike Egan.

You guys had many issues during this short season(ex. player eligibility) and I think you handled them well. People need to stop being selfish and realize that your decisions are being made solely to build a strong foundation for a top notch league. Keep up the good work, you guys are making great strides.

[ScrappersSponser]

Also another thing whats next. You guys play in Torhs Pro Series so you can't play in Narch with a different team.

Jeff Haze

[NLane]

House leagues were never the question. All players should be true to their teams but when another entity "promises" things to them that are above what they are already getting they fly like the wind to the other side. There is certainly no loyalty in hockey like there is in figure skating (skater to coach and/or rink). Maybe it goes back to the character of the player or the "rules" of drafting a player by an entity. Lots to consider when making a decision and keeping to your word.

[Brooklynite10]

Maybe some of you are fine with having 3 different OK roller hockey leagues, but I think to better our sport all we need is 1 OUTSTANDING league. The three league owners need to come together and set up a league which is structured with these type of rules. If that isn't going to happen, then hopefully will emerge as the dominant league and leave the others in the dust.

[ScrappersSponser]

Dream come true!!!!

Jeff Haze

[Brooklynite10]

Amen Brotha !!

[XIHL]

Quote from a post above:

"Oh wait Benny and Steve can I go play down at the tennis court this weekend? Who do you two guys think you are telling people when they can play roller hockey, are you for real."

I didn't really appreciate this comment, but I'm glad that this thread has actually turned into a mature discussion on the subject.

The only thing we're asking of players with this rule is to commit to our league during our season. You're right PIHA and MLRH chose not to overlap so all players can have a taste of each league. Each league wants to put it's best foot forward so the players and fans can see for themselves which league is the best, so that league can take the lead. The recent blizzard in the Northeast cause the XIHL to reschedule our Championship Weekend. That, in turn, has caused our schedule to overlap with the other two leagues. We are reacting to this by offering a waiver to the players for this season only. This, however, is up to the discretion of each individual team owner. So in my mind, this whole argument is really between PIHA and MLRH.



Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[NLane]

That's been said for about 6 years now and the sport still is split. Go ahead and try it and see just how easy it is. Is there a saying something like if you're not part of the answer...? Seems we are just rehashing the same problems over and over...as new people sign on to the sport at this level. Why don't you ask the past leagues organizers what they encountered as problems?

[NoMoreNiceGuy]

To provide some facts:
MLRH played in the summer in 1997 & 98. Charlie had a team in MLRH in those years, so did Benny for at least 1 year.

In 2000, MLRH went to AAA format, in the spring, a few years later, Charlie started PIHA in the summer because he didn't want to be part of MLRH any longer.

Jamie tried starting his own league in 2002, pulling teams from MLRH.

In 2003, Jamie rejoined MLRH and the schedule was expanded to start in November and go through the spring.

Somewhere, Charlie pushed his schedule back from summer to spring.

XIHL started by pulling teams from MLRH and used the same November to spring schedule.

If Charlie, Benny, Steve, Jamie and the others were more interest in the future of the sport, they would have stayed with MLRH, then it would be easy for players to be committed to one team.

If owners won't commit to a single league, why should players?

[Brooklynite10]

Tournaments are a whole other animal.

[patrick14]

Somebody posts later on in this thread about working together, and they hit the nail on the head. The world of ?elite? roller hockey is plain ridiculous, from Narch Pro and Torhs to XIHL, MLRH, PIHA and let us not forget?The Elite League.

I think it?s pretty clear here? The players just want to play roller hockey, and a lot of it. Aside from a million minor details? offsides, season calendar, # of games, format of penalties, the only real separating factor is checking vs. non. The real future of the game will clearly have to be check? Face it; we ARE stuck in the shadow of ice hockey for a long time to come.

Until the leagues are going to work together and become one, the players can?t possibly be expected to choose one and be loyal. It gets worse. If the players can?t pick a single league to play in? how in god?s name will a FAN ever have any idea what to watch?

Solution? One league, separate the current organizers into conference leaders who can work to develop the franchises in their conference. Get Benny to pull his Northern roots and start the upstate NY conference. Give Raue the South and Steve Central? Give Charlie the head honcho spot? Next to Raue he?s probably the biggest name around, and I hear he was pretty good on quads in his day. Find somebody to bring the Eastern Conference back around? It looked decent for a few years. Hell, split out that HUGE pool of talent in the elite league into a couple facilities in Cali and WHAM?

Have all teams play by the same rules and format. Allow them to decide their game schedules. Some conferences can play mini-tournaments; some can play home/home games, depending on their fan situations, facilities and driving distances.

I won?t open up the check vs. non-check debate here, but I think there are a number of solutions which resolve this.

A) Let PIHA continue to due their thing, in a completely different season from the check league.
B) Try the PIHA deal where each meeting is actually two games. The first game 24 minutes is non check. The second half (36 minutes)?excuse me; the second game is full check.
C) Consider the non-check portion a minor league squad, which plays a first game.

Next? if there is anyone you want to get involved in this entire ordeal? It?s Narch and TORHS. Aside from international play? The TORHS game in Florida, or maybe it was NARCh at TECO arena a few years ago that packed almost 5000 fans, was probably the largest crowd at a roller hockey game in 7 years. And their cash prizes dwarf the MLRH/XIHL prizes. Using the tournament format, get these leagues to involve their assets and talent. Slowly coercing the best players to support a true inline league, because let?s face it: Most NARCh/TORHS teams would eat up many of the XIHL/MLRH teams. Why would anyone whose seen that level of hockey for free, spend the money to see an MLRH/XIHL game. (I admit, I went to the Carolina/DC MLRH game this past weekend because I wanted to see the facility?. Game was okay (a little slow, but the facility was terrible for fans, almost as bad as the old facility in Reston, with players hanging over the upper deck to see the action)

Anyhow, we need something like AIHP? but open and effective. A consortium concerned about the future of elite roller hockey. Just like the NHL situation, some people are going to have to give a little and swallow their egos.

If you read this far? I applaud you for being a dedicated member of the inline hockey ?community?. You are probably thinking the same thing I have, a million times in the past?. Great, I just read another post with a bunch of ideas (some good and some bad) which will never happen. Even worse, it was written by a person who won?t do anything about it. Not now, I?m busy doing my part promote the college inline scene right now, but when I graduate I?ve definitely wanted to get involved in the ?elite? community. I just fear that the scene will be miserable when I graduate that I?d rather go back to the college community. Right now, it?s definitely looking that way for me, and probably countless others in similar situations (including franchise owners).

That?s enough for today.

[SpiderRat]

I second that!!!!

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[XIHL]

Jeff Haze, you're kind of all over the board on this one. First we, at least the XIHL, are not fighting over players. Steve and I (and we tried to get Charlie and Bill involved) just want to provide a professional environment for the players to play and the fans to watch. I could care less which players play in our league. Our hope is to operate a league in such a way that the best players will want to play in and the fans will want to watch. If the best players don't like the way our league is operated, then they have a choice of other leagues to play in, or, we change our rules. But Jeff, as a facility operator, you're affected by this. It doesn't matter what league we're talking about, if a game is scheduled at your place and one team shows up with half a roster because some of their "Star" players decided they would rather play in a different league on that night, the fans will be disappointed and maybe not show up the next time. The team owner is going to be pissed because his team just got it's ass kicked because a couple of key players decided to play in a different league that night or got hurt a few days before from playing in a different league.

You're absolutely right, this is about money, but greed isn't involved. The more money we make the larger the prize pool we can offer. Steve and I are not making money. Yes, I would like this job be the one that provides me with enough money to make a living, but that's not happening right now. Steve and I (and I know it's the same with Charlie and Bill) have lost money on this deal. The one league that moves ahead of the pack will make more money. Steve and I are committed to re-investing that money back into the league so one day, players can make a living, too.

I was involved with the RHI. In that league players got paid to play roller hockey. It wasn't a lot. It was basically a pretty good summer job. But because a decent amount of money was offered, the league got a higher quality of player which made for a more enjoyable product on the floor and more fans in the stands. We're getting something like that now. Mark Standish, the owner of the New Jersey Werewolves, provides a professional environment for his players. His team travels by bus. They fly out to the West Coast to play. He covers all the related costs. Because of this, he'll attract a higher quality of player; one who appreciates the environment that Mark provides his team. This means the Werewolves will be a more competitive team (which they are). If he provides a good product, more fans will pay to watch his team play. If his teams wins games and championships, he'll get more sponsorship dollars or possible TV or radio revenue. With the additional revenue, now maybe he'll start paying his players. It won't be much at first but it will be a start.

Now, what happens if a couple of his star players get hurt playing in a different league or don't show up because they choose to play in a different league? Not only are his opportunities to generate revenue decreased, as well as the players opportunity to eventually get paid, but he's going to re-think how much he's willing to invest in his team.

You're damn right it's about money. I'm sure Charlie and Bill will say it's the same thing.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[Brooklynite10]

Cause if the owners can't decide on one league, then the players need to. One league must stand above the rest for the good of everyone involved.

[patrick14]

Awesome, You've been voted to lead the boycott.

Did you pick a league yet?



How about now?

[XIHL]

Roger, c'mon buddy. You're contradicting yourself.

"Does that mean that say half way through the season, we find that we don't like the way your running your league, we have to either suck it up and play anyway, or do we have to sit out the remainder of the season and not play somewhere else?"

If you don't like the way the league you're currently playing in is being run, then go play in another league. If you do, yes, you will not be allowed to play in that first league again. But if you don't like the first league in the first place then why would care if you get banned anyway. You don't have to sit out the first league, just go play somewhere else.

This non-compete clause is only in effect when there are two leagues operating at the same time. All we're asking is that you pick a league and commit to it for their season. If you don't like the way that league is being run, you can stop playing anytime and go play in a different league. Or you can offer suggestions to make that first league better. You can ask a lot of XIHL players about this season. There were a number of issues that came up and we solicited input from the players. They spoke and we listened. I truely believe that if you polled every player in all the leagues, a very large majority would vote to keep this rule in place. They want to know that they can expect to face the same roster each time they play a team. Granted, stuff happens. Players get hurt or personal conflicts come up, but they don't want to hear, "You only beat us because we didn't have our full squad." The players that want to play on two or three elite league teams at the same time is not interested in helping develop one true elite league. To me, this is a selfish player who's only interest is in playing as much roller hockey as possible. That's not the type of player we want in our league.

And before I get slammed for this last statement, this non-compete clause only relates to playing in any other "Elite" league. If you play in XIHL, you can play on a house league team or on a tournament team. You can play roller hockey in your driveway or on a tennis court. You can do anything you want. ALL we ask is that if there is more than one "Elite" league operating at the same time that you pick a league and commit to it for that season. Is that too much to ask?

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[yokes]

The one big problem of coming together with those personnalities is that some want and think non contact can be dominant opposed to others feel the other way.

If you dont hit me im not stopping it.

[NLane]

Excellent post.

[XIHL]

Thanks for the info. It's very accurate. But if you look at what you wrote, do you see a pattern?

RHI went on hiatus after 1997 and two teams (Anaheim and Buffalo) joined MLRH. When RHI started back up in 1999, those two teams left MLRH.

Charlie started PIHA because he didn't like the way MLRH was being run and thought he could do better.

Jamie started NARHL because he didn't like the way MLRH was being run and thought he could do better.

I started IHA because I didn't like the way MLRH was being run and I thought I could do better.

Steve and I, along with a number of MLRH team operators, started XIHL because we didn't like the way MLRH was being run and we thought we could do better.

At the end of the 2003-2004 MLRH season, Steve Seeger, who was the MLRH Commissioner and the person charged with moving that league forward, came up with a plan to do just that. I think almost everyone will agree that the '03-'04 MLRH season was one of the best since 1998. Most, if not all, the team operators agreed with the direction that Steve wanted to take the league. Bill Raue did not. So they went their separate ways.

Steve Charlie and I had numerous discussions, face-to-face and over the phone, thoughout the Spring and Summer of 2004. We came to an agreement to work together and American Inline Hockey Properties was formed. Our intention was to create and operate a full-contact league (XIHL) and a new non-check league under the same rules (with the exception of contact) and the same format. The two leagues would be co-promoted and would be scheduled so they would not overlap and players who wanted to play in both could. So after agreeing to all this, Charlie decides to go back and try to do PIHA on his own again. I'm not trying to diss Charlie, but he has never told me directly why he backed out of his agreement. So I wish him and PIHA the best of luck and if Charlie ever decides to work with me and Steve again, he'll be more than welcome.

Bill thinks that his vision is the one that players and team operators want so he wants to do it his way. Best of luck to him as well. So despite our recent efforts to work together some choose not to. It appears that the only way to get all of all to work together is for the players, the fans, the sponsors and the team operators to decide which league you want to support. As long as everyone keeps jumping from each league, the sport at the elite level will remain fractured.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[NLane]

Ever notice how many Jr A ice leagues there are? Any idea why? Are they all good? Great? Do players jump from one to another depending what is offered? When you sign with them are you allowed to play for another JR A team? Or in a tournament for any other team/event? Can anyone help with this info?

[NLane]

Thank you. If it was so easy it would have been accomplished by now.

[AFan99]

Any players that played Torhs, Narch or any other tournament series have to get a waiver ? What is the answer ?

[NLane]

That answer is NO. Tournaments are allowed according to the contracts.

[XIHL]

No, the non-compete clause is for a competing "Elite" league. The league has no restrictions on players playing in tournaments or house leagues or anything else. However, an individual team may impose restrictions for those activities.

But again, becaues of the situation with the XIHL having to extend our season because of the weather, which in turn has cause us to overlap other "Elite" leagues, the league will waive the non-compete rule for this season only, BUT, you still need to ask your team operator to petition the league for a waiver.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[AFan99]

I would consider both Torhs and Narch elite. I would think most players on this board would agree the talent level in pro and the top adult teams are as good as any of these "Elite"/"Semi Pro" leagues. The point is that you are trying to keep players from playing in other competing leagues, ie PIHA or MLRH, but what the player wants is to play as much roller hockey as they can.

I do understand the point you are making regarding owners putting out money, but do you think the Rink Rat owner only allows the guys on the Pro team to play for him, not likely. Secondly what is the difference to the owner if a player plays an MLRH game or a Torhs tournament game? The said player could get hurt in either. The owner should only be concerned if the player is skipping his game to go play in another league or tournament. The owner could then suspend the player from the team. The league should not be imposing this type of rule, it should really be the team rule.

Just putting my opinion out there

[AFan99]

how convenient how that works ah.

LOL

[XIHL]

Excellent points! Thanks, Paul. There's truth on both sides of the argument. I guess, in a way, it's each of our way to force the players to pick a league. We all want feedback and maybe this is our (all the leagues) attempt to try and get it.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[SpiderRat]

I pick MLRH.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[MDE3]

That's simply because you cannot compare tournament scheduled play to league play...the incidence of tournament play is very low compared to the frequency of a league situation....so you are in fact stretching the point here. And BTW do you not think the Pro tournament Teams put serious pressure on their players to show at the expense of other activities?

If tournament players did not have other places to play between tournaments..at a high level..they would not be tournament "Pro's" very long....

[MDE3]

Players do not get on to those teams normally without being "signed" and "developed" within a minor league system well prior to ascending to the Major Junior A teams....so the answer to the question, are they "bound to agreements and certain clubs?" is.."you bet your petunia"...in fact at the lower minor league levels, it's the players who are striving to get the team to make the commitment to them, not the other way around.

[AFan99]

Mike I respect what you post on this board, but I have played in many Torhs Pro games that have been just as physical or more physical than many XIHL/MLRH games. Add to that the money that is on the line in Torhs Pro games and the physicalality of the games is quite high. My point being you can just as easily be hurt in a Torhs/Narch game as you could in XIHL/MLRH games. The Pro teams who are getting their expenses paid for are expected to show up, but are not told they cannot play in other leagues.

Thanks
Paul

[dcdonkey]

Interesting... it's obvious which direction your league is going in.

[dcdonkey]

Why do you expect the same level of player commitment that the Werewolves owner gets if you don't compensate players? Accord to your post, he compensates his players.

Also, do you have a five-year plan of where you want the league to be? Ten-years?

[dcdonkey]

Why would the MLRH Commissioner leave if he got to make the decisions of MLRH? Basically it sounds like your saying that he didn't like the job he was doing. Why couldn't his new adaptations be infiltrated while with MLRH?

Personally at this point, I'm disgusted with all these leagues.

[XIHL]

Why? If we have players that are serious in helping us develop the type of "Elite" travel league that they want to play in and eventually get compensated, then we need some kind of committment from them. The committment I'm talking about is attending all scheduled practices and games, help promote their home games by putting up posters and distributing and selling tickets, ACT like a "pro" player on and off the floor, work with your home rink in running camps and clinics, maybe even volunteer to coach a youth team, etc. Is this too much to ask?

We want to grow this league so in the short-term, players can play and not have to put out any personal money to do so. Long-term, we hope to provide them with actual money to play. It takes work, effort and dedication on all sides; the league, the players and the team operators.

One of the things that the XIHL requires to help accelerate this is for our member teams to have a strong working relationship with their home rink. This has to be a symbiotic realtionship so that the individual player costs can be lowered or eliminated altogether and they in turn can help build a fan base, which can lead to more revenue for the rink owner (which, hopefully they will reinvest back into the team).

As far as a specific 5-year plan and a 10-year plan, I would be happy to discuss this with you in private.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[XIHL]

This all played out this way because of a series of complex business factors involving rights ownerships and such. All parties involved have asked that the exact details not be made public. The situation now is what it is and we all just have to move on now and make the best of it.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[NoMoreNiceGuy]

It is true that many people don't like how Bill runs the MLRH, but all those people who started their own leagues have not done any better.

Also, Bill has a significant investment in MLRH and he has a right to protect it. If all those who pulled out of MLRH would have tried to work with Bill, the whole "Pro" inline situation would be better.

[MDE3]

As a fan of hockey and or maybe just an overbearing parent who pays to much attention to his son's activities...I just want to see some consistancy.

Everytime an effort is made to coalesce the collective efforts being made to grow the sport, and some agreement appears to have been reached where everyone can go forward "in step", someone changes their mind in mid stream and seems to decide they now know where the pot of gold is really buried, and it's always somewhere else. Maybe it's the nature of the sport, maybe it's simply lack of funding , but one thing is sure..it is frustrating.

The XIHL is one of these efforts, and has at least attempted to get all of the "players" marching to the same tune. It was not long before half of the "powers that be" were in conflict with each other, and off marching to a different beat again.

The pie just is not that big....those involved must step back and understand that just like the sport on a national level, the "Pro" levels of the sport, needs a single board of directors...an "NPGB", who will for the moment have to be volunteers, and who will formulate a membership of players and owners into one body. I think this was the intent of AIHP...But instead of ending in a scenario which resulted in squabbling between some members, conflicting seasons, which resulted in the raiding each other's teams/leagues for players, all the current and potential future owners and administrators, must get into a room and hammer out a game plan for the future of the sport, and agree to abide by the collective accords..in a legalling binding contract.

As I have proposed numerous times, a series of "pro" level clinics and tryouts could be held, where attendees, if they make the grade, would now hold a "pro card" for inline hockey, allowing them to participate in one level or other of Pro competition (contact/non contact). These card holding members would now consitute the "body membership" for card carrying "Pro Inline" hockey players under the aegis of this new NPGB. These players would be bound by the By-Laws of the NPGB for pro players.

While effecting this will take time and effort, it will not cost all that much money. In fact the clinic/try-outs would not be for free. Each player would have to pay say $250.00 for the three day clinic and try-out. The money from these tryouts would go to the rinks hosting them, and probably 20 - 25% would be allocated to the new league organization(NPGB) to help defer start up costs, travel expenses for meetings etc.

With this in place, a meaningfull series of League seasons and events could be developed. NOTE: this group would NOT run any tournaments, but simply help to orchestrate the best direction for Pro Inline Hockey.

This needs to be done...It is a shame that so much hard work and money on the part of many dedicated individuals ends up simply evaporating due to lack of a directional focus.

[SpiderRat]

Benny, with all do respect, when are we going to hear from Steve? My emails and voice messages have been ignored for months now. Also, from the rumor mill, I hear that the two of you never showed up for a festival weekend. Any truth to that? Just wondering.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[MDE3]

Paul...there are really two separate issues here...the possibility of injury is certainly one, but the schedule conflict is another....The games played at Narch and Torhs pro are quite physical, but the incidence of these games is quite low during the course of a season...maybe one or two, or three tournaments at most.

This means that the incidence for injury is lower (total minutes played being lower = lower risk exposure) and the incidences of schedule conflicts are also lowered. Hence it is much more unreasonable to ask a player to forfit his previous commitments to his tournament pro team which in most cases antecedes his commitment to any "pro" league teams anyway.

[5_hole_master]

if piha had stayed on board with XIHL, this problem would be close to being solved, there are great players in both leagues, and if the XIHL had came out with their version of the non check game, there would have been more teams, and it would have been a little more organized... and a lot less players would have played in MLRH... making the xihl a power house, now instead it looks like we have 3 weak links...

MLRH, sure they have the most teams 20 or so... but maybe 3 of those teams can compete... who knows what those europe teams are made of, i mean NY rockers beat a team 24-2 or something like that.... thats not professional, thats retarded, and the travel from NY all the way to NC when its coming out of pocket, is that really worth it to play a game that most A house leagues can get??

XIHL- started out looking great, the idea is there, the commitment thus far is not. from the few games i saw this season most of the teams are pretty well balanced, with the exception of the sting, but i give them a lot of credit because no matter what they always showed up for their games, unlike some teams. with only 4 or 5 teams (depending on marple) left in the league, the direction is there, but come next season will the league be there??

PIHA, last season seemed to go ok, fan base was not there, i was at the all star skills and game, and maybe 40 people were there, most were players cheering on their all stars, this season more spread out, in terms of travel, but only 6 teams... should be an interesting season, with the "mini" games... i know last season watching some of those games go really boring as most were blow outs, although i must say playoffs were fun to watch, too much goal hanging in this league, make an offsides rule.

all in all mlrh should have the best season this year, as long as no teams bail, like usual, but is this really what we, the roller hockey community want?? all these other leagues were formed basically to draw away from the MLRH, yet they have the most teams?? and the most fans for that matter, in the DC area, they have a lot of media coverage as well... don't see that in the other leagues? MLRH was in the right direction in 03-04 probably the best season out of any, it seems as though we are now set back 5 years due to everyones on perspective on where the sport should go

in the long run, only a checking version of the game will be able to be sold to the general public... so piha jump on with xihl or jump on with mlrh, i dont understand why everyone wants to do everything themselves, we now have 3 okay leagues to play in... when is one going to jump out ahead of the rest?

[patrick14]

I agree... MLRH looks to be the top product this year, with or without the European division.

Again, I wish Benny would North again and start up a Northern division using the same clubs he previosly used in his attempt for Inline Hockey America. There are some great facilities up there... The Keenan Centre, the Pepsi Areana... the ESL Center. Maybe add chicago and something in Mich. area to the mix. The logistics are easy. 10-12 game season. Play everyone in your conference twice, one home and one away. Play everyone else once... if that, with an equal mix of home and away.

This all seems to me very similar to the NHL situation, everyone needs to give a little so that the sport can survive. In both situations, it also looks as though the solution is pretty obvious.... The NHLPA ***** ******* *******, and the league owners are doing the right thing. And the powers that be in roller hockey need to over come their differences and do whats best for everyone involved. And this needs to happen before somebody else comes along ane makes another half hearted attempt ala this guy:

Big League Roller Hockey
Click to Enter Big League Roller Web Site The Fastest Game On Earth!
www.theiihl.com/Roller.html

Don't worry, others are on the way.

[SpiderRat]

I like what your saying. I would also like to add that it seems to me that XIHL is set out to get Bill and MLRH, maybe even sabotage could be used. Maybe we need a players union sort of speak. A group of players to sit down with Bill, Steve, if he shows, and Benny. Discuss the players concerns and issues. Perhaps these three need a mediator, like the players, to make them see that we all want one solid league. Hear from them directly. Without the doors shut. That way there's nothing to hide. We players certainly have no problem talking here and could use IHC to inform the rest of the community how things are going. With one league, everyone wins. No backstabbing, switching teams, team drop outs, pretty much everything going on now. What do you say Benny and Bill, Charlie and Steve, this summer, we (the player reps) and you all get together and discuss how we all can grow the sport, increase popularity, increase revenue, fill the seats, pretty much what's not going on now. Solidarity always wins.

Blah Blah Blah, Shoot the puck already

[Werewolves9]

That is the best point made out of this entire discussion!

Remember when it wasn't a given that you were on the team and you had to work hard to make a team?

[Brooklynite10]

That is the perfect solution! I think you should e-mail, fax, postmail, etc... your message to all the league owners and anyone with a say in the roller hockey community. League owners, Team owners and players would reep the most benefits in a league structured that way. 3 Divisions instead of 3 leagues is BRILIANT(and I'm not talking about Guiness), especially because these league owners are major figures in three different regions along the East coast. Can't comment on the West, but I'm sure that's a much easier situation than what we have here on the East. I know that you are sacrificing time on the College game, but can't you give a little to "Pro" roller by helping push your concept ?

[Brooklynite10]

TORHS and NARCH are "elite", but they are not leagues. The point about a player getting hurt in any game(league or tournament) is a good one, but I feel the rule should be in place due to the fact that many roller hockey players, unlike in any other sport I know, are willing to jump from team to team(permanently) and never commit. No league or team will ever create a fan base and grow, if players are allowed to due this.

[Brooklynite10]

Anybody want to post there feelings on contact vs. non-contact ? I personally feel that contact is the only way. I feel this is best for the fans. Fans show as much or even more excitement on a big hit than goals being scored. Tournaments can survive with non-contact, but a league over a long period of time could not.

[5_hole_master]

agreed, non-contact games will not draw the fans

[XIHL]

Two points: 1). Roller hockey doesn't pay the bills so Steve took on a new job which has affected his availability. That doesn't excuse him for not getting back to you. Feel free to contact me at any time. I always make it a point to return phone calls and e-mails as quickly as possible.

2). Having a league rep. attend every Festival WAS what we planned on doing. Because of Charlie Yoder's proximity to a majority of Festivals and his agreed upon duties of Team Operations, it was to have been his responsibility to attend these events. When he backed out after the season began, we were kind of stuck. We did have some people act as a rep. for some events like Nancy Lane and Ben Loyall, but we put some of the responsibility on the host team for each Festival. We have a lot of faith in Marc Barbato, Brian Trohalides, Bill Koslosky, Ernie Neve and CJ Yoder. I, of course, attended the Buffalo Wings game versus the NJ Werewolves played in Buffalo.

So, yes, we wanted to have a rep. at each event and we thought we were going to. Next season, we will be going to a traditional format and it will be difficult to have an official rep. at every game, but these will just be individual games and it also depends on the total number of teams. We'll have to see how it all plays out.

Benny Gulakiw
Director of Marketing & Public Relations
eXtreme Inline Hockey League

[GROWL]

There was an attempt at this last year and it failed MISERABLY.

[NLane]

There were player reps this season with XIHL. They had their own section on the message board to talk to each other. It's a good idea. Now does your player rep want to travel to N Carolina for a meeting (of course out of pocket) or should N Carolina have to travel to you? There is one of the problems that surfaced. It has been discussed and can still be utilized with more thought.